Community Projections 2008, Part III: Starting Pitching
First, a quick glance back at last week's installment, where we cast the runes and looked at the outfield. It seems that we're going to have a speedy trio, with all three projected to steal 20 bases or more. That'd be impressive - last year was the first time in franchise history we had more than one player reach that mark in the same season - but Young and Byrnes seems like locks to get there again, so it really comes down to Upton. And there's little doubt about his raw speed, so it all comes down to whether he has the savvy (and, perhaps, whether he gets the opportunities) on the base-paths.
Both Byrnes and Young are expected to be around the same number of homers; Eric loses ten points of average while Young, it's hoped, will gain around 25. As with the 'neutral' projections, Upton sees the biggest variation, though no-one reaches Bill James' levels of lust. :-) In the overall poll, for who will hit the most home-runs, Young was the easy winner, getting 62% of the votes. Mark Reynolds made a credible showing, with 22%, and Conor Jackson came in third on 8%, though again, every nominee received at least one vote from somebody.
#1. Brandon Webb
2007: 3.01 ERA, 18-10, 1.19 WHIP
Bill James; 3.39, 16-10, 1.25
CHONE: 3.49, N/A, 1.27
Marcel: 3.39, 14-9, 1.27
MINER: 3.43, 15-9, 1.26
ZIPS: 3.01, 18-7, 1.14
Webb followed up his Cy Young award season by throwing more innings, striking out hitters faster, and dropping his ERA for the third-straight year. Where do you go from here? Well, it'll be interesting to see what difference the arrival of Haren makes; in his five years with Arizona, Webb has never had a rotation-mate finish better than three games above .500. There's now a legitimate #2 to back him up, and this could help take some pressure off Webb, in the same way the arrival of Curt Schilling allowed Randy Johnson to take his game to the next level.
Two things will help significantly. First, he needs to keep the walks down, and there are signs he can do this; in the first four months, he averaged 3.14 BB/9, but over the last two dropped that down to 1.94 BB/9. Also, whatever crypto-Satanic hold the Rockies have over Webb, needs to be broken. Even excluding the playoffs, they had a 5.77 ERA against our ace in six starts, and he managed only one win. Contrast, say, the Dodgers, against whom he was 4-0 with an ERA of 0.92. Expect teams to stack their lineups with lefties, who batted 73 points better against Webb last year; they'll still struggle.
AZ SnakePit: 3.05, 19-9, 1.21 WHIP
#2. Dan Haren
2007: 3.07 ERA, 15-9, 1.21 WHIP
Bill James; 4.10, 12-10, 1.31
CHONE: 3.62, N/A, 1.19
Marcel: 3.80, 12-10, 1.24
MINER: 4.11, 14-11, 1.19
ZIPS: 3.92, 14-11, 1.20
With Haren having no history at Chase and no recent history in the National League [he did play for the Cardinals until 2005, before being traded to Oakland], it's very hard to come up with numbers here. To what extent will the benefit that comes from facing the pitcher rather than a DH, be countered by moving from a pitcher-friendly park to the hitters' haven which is Arizona? I'm not even sure whether the predictive numbers quoted above were made before the trade or after it, and so may or may not take these factors into account.
He has shown himself capable of eating innings, making 34 outings and throwing 217 or more innings each of the past three seasons, since he became a full-time starter. His K/9 ratio has improved too, from 6.76 to 7.10 to 7.76, while the walks have remained fairly constant, around 2.1 BB/9. Last year, he did fall off significantly after the All-Star break, opponents' OPS going up from .583 to .813; this continued a trend seen in 2006 [.693/.775], and a large part was due to his home-run rate ballooning from 0.76 up to 1.25 HR/9. That concerns me, but Haren should still be a more solid and effective #2 than the systems seem to expect.
AZ SnakePit: 3.45, 15-9, 1.26
#3. Randy Johnson
2007: 3.81 ERA, 4-3, 1.15 WHIP
Bill James; 3.25, 9-5, 1.11, 119 IP
CHONE: 3.81, N/A, 1.19, 144 IP
Marcel: 4.46, 7-6, 1.30, 109 IP
MINER: 3.81, 9-7, 1.30, 135 IP
ZIPS: 3.99, 9-8, 1.15, 142 IP
The Big Unit is the Big Questionmark this year. How many innings will he pitch, seems at least as important a question as how well he will pitch in them. Most estimates seem to be moderate on this matter, which is what you'd expect, and average out round about the 22-25 starts at six innings per, mentioned by Bob McManaman in a recent article. However, those estimates ignore the fact that it won't be enough to get the Big Unit to 300 wins. Except for the strike-shortened year of 1994, no full-time starter has won 16 in 25 or less starts since Spud Chandler went 16-5 in 1942 - and he had seventeen complete games.
Is that a significant driving force? If the Big Unit reaches the break on pace to come up a couple short and in a pennant chase, I think we could find him willing to go to the well more often down the stretch. All, of course, assuming he stays healthy. I'm thinking - okay, let's be honest, hoping - we could see something like John Smoltz, who won 17 in 26 starts for the '98 Braves, pitching only 167.2 innings. Of course, he was 31, not 44. But dammit, this is Randy Johnson, the man who killed a bird with one pitch. I dream of a 300 remake, and Johnson yelling, "Madness? This is Arizona!" before kicking Johan Santana into the Grand Canyon. Dammit, despite paragraphs littered with "hope", "assume" and "dream", give me my optimism and let me be.
AZ SnakePit: 3.33, 16-6, 1.18, 165 IP

#4. Doug Davis
2007: 4.25 ERA, 13-12, 1.59 WHIP
Bill James; 4.36, 10-11, 1.47
CHONE: 4.50, N/A, 1.51
Marcel: 4,58, 10-10, 1.51
MINER: 4.52, 11-11, 1.54
ZIPS: 4.66, 10-12, 1.50
All being well, Davis will find himself at the back of the rotation, and on that basis, we don't really need much more than him keeping us in games. He's been at .500 or within one game of it, every year for the past five, and I don't expect too much of that to change. The key thing is whether Davis can improve his control: last year, he hardly did so, shaving only 0.07 off his BB/9 rate, and a 1.59 WHIP is simply unsustainable with a 4.25 ERA. The signs aren't good elsewhere: opponent's BA increased and strikeout rate decreased, continuing the trend from 2006. Davis is now getting to the stage in his career where he can't afford to walk people, because he will give up hits and can't reach back for a K.
That said, it was clear in 2007 that Davis still occasionally had it, for example, the August 3rd game where he three-hit the Dodgers for eight innings in LA. But here's the most telling stat, indicating how crucial control is to his success. In 13 starts when he walked two or less last season, Davis was 7-2; when he walked more than three, he went 2-6 in nine outings. But one thing likely won't change: over the past four years, Davis has batted .069; that beats only Ian Snell's .066 among all players with 100+ PAs. Doug truly is the anti-Owings. And that's as good a segue was you can expect.
AZ SnakePit: 4.40, 12-12, 1.50
#5. Micah Owings
2007: 4.30 ERA, 8-8, 1.28 WHIP
Bill James; 4.32, 11-12, 1.39
CHONE: 4.50, N/A, 1.39
Marcel: 4,30, 7-7, 1.30
MINER: 4.41, 7-9, 1.30
ZIPS: 4.47, 8-9, 1.38
Interesting to note that Owings and Webb each made 29 starts in their first year for Arizona, both in their age 24 seasons. Obviously Webb's performance on the mound was rather better [ERA 2.84 vs. 4.30] but it's certainly possible Owings' was the second-best year ever by a D-backs rookie pitcher, even discounting entirely the startling performance with the bat. That does have to be taken into account when assessing his value; basically, it's likely Owings will rarely, if ever, be pinch-hit for, and this should extend his innings pitched in 2008.
He was a rookie, so it's curious that none of the projection systems expect him to improve his performance this season. He got significantly better, even as the year wore on, dropping his ERA from 4.84 in the first half, to 3.72 after the break - in his final ten starts, covering 59.2 innings, opponents batted just .195 against Owings. Hell, even Jake Peavy allowed a higher BA last year (.208). We can't really expect that over the course of 33 starts for Owings this year, but his performances should be among the best by a #5 starter in the National League. His hitting is merely an added bonus to that.
AZ SnakePit: 4.20, 12-9, 1.25 WHIP
Acknowledgment should be made of those outside the top five, though with no credible concept of how many starts they might get, projections are just about impossible. Edgar Gonzalez would seem to have the first shot at any spot starts needed, but we may also get contributions from Yusmeiro Petit, Billy Buckley and (if he survives the cut) Dustin Nippert. While we have solid starters in Webb, Haren and Davis - a minimum of 33 starts over the past three years by each member of the trio - and Owings should be good to go, rotation fillers are essential. We've never had more than three Arizona pitchers reach thirty starts, and over the first ten years have averaged 28 games per season from those outside the top five most-regular starters. I think our #6 starter(s) are as good as anyone else's.
Today's comment starter. Shouldn't really need one today - I'm looking for your pitching projections, duh! But the bonus question for the projections is this: how many home-runs will Micah Owings hit in 2008?
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29 comments
Comments
Best rotation around
3.00ERA 20-10 1.16WHIP
Dan Haren
3.40ERA 16-11 1.22WHIP
Doug Davis
4.35ERA 14-12 1.48WHIP
Micah Owings
3.95ERA 13-9 1.25WHIP
Randy Johnson
3.75ERA 10-6 1.20WHIP 22GS 130IP
I hate to crap on your heart, but I don't see Randy getting 300 this year :/ Hope it happens, but it would take a great year
by manphibian on Mar 10, 2008 1:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Likely to upset a few
Haren 4.20 1.29 200K 35HR 13-11
Davis 4.50 1.45 145k 23HR 12-12
Johnson 3.75 1.20 100k 6HR 6-3
Owings 4.75 1.55 120k 28HR 8-15
I'm clearly high on Webb, but I think everyone else is a little too high on Haren. This guy was giving up HR totals in the high 20's-low 30's in Oakland and the AL West.
I'm giving Randy 15 starts.
by nihil67 on Mar 10, 2008 10:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I understand your dislike for Haren
by seton hall snake pit on Mar 10, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CY numbers for Webb this year.
Haren 3.75 ERA 15-9 1.25 WHIP (190 K)
Johnson 3.95 ERA 13-7 1.22 WHIP (160 K)
Davis 4.15 ERA 14-11 1.39 WHIP (135 K)
Owings 3.85 ERA 14-10 1.27 WHIP (7 HR 35 RBI)
I only can see Webb getting better and better, he's at his prime age, with a solid 2# backing up him... his poisoned for another CY =p
If Randy stays healthy enough to make 25-27 starts he'll have a shot at 300 =]
I can see Owings hitting 7th in the lineup and belting at least 7 HR along with 35 RBI o/
Hope Davis will walk less ppl, that should give him a couple more wins than losses =]
by Muu on Mar 10, 2008 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
editing...
he's poisoned*
sorry for my poor english =[ I'm working on it =)
by Muu on Mar 10, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here are mine
Haren... 216 IP 14-11, 3.91, 1.20 WHIP 46BB 177K 27HR
Davis... 184 IP 8-12 4.84, 1.56 WHIP 91BB 123K 22HR
Owings. 176 IP 10-10 4.60, 1.32 WHIP 54BB 121K 24HR
Johnson 113 IP 7-7 4.30, 1.30 WHIP 32BB 101K 15HR
And just because:
Gonzalez (10 Starts, 20 relief appearances)
81 IP, 4-4, 5.11 1.37 WHIP, 21BB, 52K 13 HR
by shoewizard on Mar 10, 2008 1:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A word on Haren
1.) The difference in ballpark environment cancels out the difference in league environments. Oakland has a very pitcher friendly park, with a big outfield that helped contain some of the big flys that Haren gives up. Of course Danny will be pitching half is games in the second best hitters park in the National league. This offsets most if not all of the effect of not having to face the DH. Hard to imagine, I know, but the difference in the ballpark environments really is that extreme.
2.) Haren's ERA was probably somewhat Lucky last year. We can see this by looking at his FIP, or fielding independent pitching
Year--ERA---FIP---FIP-ERA
2005--3.73--3.84--0.11
2006--4.12--4.15--0.03
2007--3.07--3.82--0.75
As you can see, his FIP was pretty consistently within a range for all 3 years as a starter. This is because his peripherals, walks, strikeouts, and homers allowed were all fairly close. And for 05 & 06, his ERA and FIP are almost identical. However in 2007, even though his FIP remained about the same, his ERA was 3/4 of a run lower. Having an ERA that much lower than your FIP is not a usually a repeatable skill. It could happen, there are a very select few pitchers who consistently beat their FIP, but usually not by that much. The odds are simply against that happening.
by shoewizard on Mar 10, 2008 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nervous about Owings
I know it's early but the spring training karma so far for Owings has not been good....
by dstorm on Mar 10, 2008 3:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Does he look heavy and out of shape?
I didn't really notice that.
by shoewizard on Mar 10, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Odd
Webb: 2.85, 19-8, 1.10, 195 K, 12 HR
It would be interesting to see the cumulative projections for Webb year by year placed side by side with his actual stats. My hunch is that he's outperformed them every year. It's also interesting to see that while we're all over the map on our projections here, we're all consistently very, very high on Webb... only Zips in fact rivals our expectations.
Haren: 3.55, 16-10, 1.20, 195 K 23HR
Haren's tough. Bad 2nd half, move to a band box make me understand the doubters... but he's still young and just entering his peak years. And the move to the NL doesn't just eliminate the DH, it also makes the opposition 1-8 weaker as well. I don't see any reason why he can't continue to make progress.
Johnson: 3.35, 14-7, 1.14, 145 K, 15 HR, 155 IP
I thought for sure I'd have the most outlandish prediction here on RJ, but I guess Jim beat me to that punch. I know it's stupid to think a guy can resurrect his career at 44, but man did the Unit look good when he was healthy last year. I'm thinking we just might be able to use him delicately and keep him at his finest.
Davis: 4.70, 9-13, 1.53, 115 K 26 HR
Davis has a predicament: if he doesn't flirt with the zone more his atrocious WHIP will bite him; but on the other hand, his stuff isn't good enough (and he's another year older) to flirt with the zone too much. Bold prediction: this may just be his last year as a SP.
Owings. 4.05, 13-8, 1.22, 135 K 20 HR
I'm not concerned about his Spring training at all. Not one bit. And what's the deal with the lousy projections? All Micah showed me his rookie year was a pitcher who got better every month (he caught up to the league, not vice versa). I see a very, very good year for Micah. With the gentle treatment of RJ and my prediction that Davis will tumble this year, I wouldn't be surprised to see Owings occupying the third slot in the rotation by year's end, and doing so admirably.
by johngordonma on Mar 10, 2008 11:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Owings is another FIPS Defier
Owings had a 4.80 FIP and a 4.94 xFIP. There was a half run spread between his ERA and his FIP. His DER, or defensive efficiency rating, was .727 which means that he was probably a bit lucky on balls in play.
So in effect, projecting a 4.60 ERA for Owings is the same as saying he will have slight improvement, if you are projecting neutral "luck", as I was.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/stats/players/index.php?lastName=Owings
by shoewizard on Mar 10, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should I perhaps mention...
by Jim McLennan on Mar 11, 2008 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure, there are always exceptions
For MOST pitchers, FIP is a better predictor of future ERA than ERA itself. Yes, we are trying to forecast future ERA. FIP is just ONE of the tools used to help us do that.
Anyway I was trying to explain why the projection systems mostly have Owings ERA going up, not down. This is part of the answer. Owings peripherals were not as good as his ERA. These are just projections. Nothing is cast in stone. But this is a more statistically viable way of approaching it.
That doesn't mean that any one person's "gut instinct" can't be more accurate for a specific player. Of course they can. But on a macro basis, there are certain tried and true methods of statistical projection. Regression to the mean is the bane of fanboys everywhere. ;)
BTW, I have him projected for a 4.72 FIP, but a 4.60 ERA, so there is already some allowance there for the assumption that the defense will be above average. As mentioned up thread, Owings already enjoyed a .727 DER last year. Kind of hard to get luckier than that on balls in play. Among all NL Starters who pitched 162 innings or more, only 7 had a higher DER than Owings. It's possible he could get that fortunate again. But thats not exactly something I would be predicting or hanging my hat on. It's just low odds to repeat.
DER for D backs starting pitchers last year
Owings .727
Gonzalez .717
Webb .715
Hernandez .697
Davis .682
Johnson .672
by shoewizard on Mar 11, 2008 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick final point (for tonight!)
by Jim McLennan on Mar 11, 2008 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rare air
For example, in the fielding bibles +/- system, Toronto came out with the best team defense. But if you sort their team page by innings like you did the D Backs, you will find a mixed bag. Some guys way under their FIP, some guys way over it.
FWIW, my team wide FIP projection is 4.23 and the team ERA projection is 4.05 Almost every reputable professional forecaster would question that as being too generous. But in your view, I am being "miserly"....LOL. Jim, regression to the mean is a harsh mistress. Expecting a repeat of last years good fortune to the same degree is simply fanboy optimism, not a statistically sound method of projection. There were teams out there with better defenses whose pitchers were not that fortunate. The D Backs defense was good....it was not historically good.
by shoewizard on Mar 11, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not quite...
The overall team FIP figures can be found here. Overall in the AL, only Boston - another team with an excellent DER - outperformed their FIP by more than Toronto. Looking at the NL, Arizona probably benefited a bit more than they should have, given their DER, but we did have an above-average DER. and so should be expected to have a below-FIP ERA.
by Jim McLennan on Mar 11, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jim, you are making my point for me
As for Toronto, yes, their FIP-ERA number 0f .35 was ever so slightly more than the D Backs, but they had a .706 DER, which is A LOT higher than .694.
I know you like to debate things for the sake of debating, it can be fun. I'm the same way. But I really don't know what point you are trying to make here. If it's your point that the D Backs pitchers will continue to outperform their FIP by the largest margin in the NL "just because"...then fine. Have at it. I prefer to look at something with a bit more substance. ;)
by shoewizard on Mar 11, 2008 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point was...
With regard to the D-backs, it's that defense - good or bad - needs to be taken into account when using FIP as a predictor of future ERA. FIP may be a good measure of how well someone pitched but there are other factors, most obviously, the defense behind him, which need to be taken into account when predicting ERA. DER is just one fielding stat and is a pretty simplistic one at that; it doesn't take into account park factors, for example. If you play in a large stadium, your DER inevitably will drop, simply because you've got more ground to cover and more batted balls will fall in. And Toronto's park is basically neutral, certainly much less hitter-friendly than Chase. Overall, in 2007, by park-factor for hits, Arizona was 7th, Toronto 28th.
There's no denying the consistent way in which ALL Arizona's most-commonly used pitchers outperformed their FIP last year. You may choose to claim this was simply "luck" - and may be right - but after a coin comes up heads ten times in a row, I'm personally more inclined to ask to check the coin. :-)
by Jim McLennan on Mar 11, 2008 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh........
The AL DER was .687, 4 points lower than the NL. (The reason should be obvious). So Toronto's .706 DER was 19 points above league average. The D Backs DER of .694 was only 3 points above league average. Park factor noted, but that is still a very large gap. Ok,......there are other important measures besides DER you say. I agree.
The gap in the fielding bible stats between Toronto and AZ was also quite large. Can't find the link right now, but I believe Toronto was +90 something, while the D Backs were +50 something. (and almost all of that positive coming from Byrnes and Hudson)
So while Toronto's gap of .35 between FIP and ERA was understandable and reasonable, Arizona's gap of .34 was not.
Yes, the D Backs had a good defense. You keep repeating it.
Yes, you have to take defense into account, when projecting era. You keep repeating it.
And I agree on both points and have stated so.
But in repeating these thing over again, you are not supporting your argument that the D Backs pitchers should be projected to beat their FIP by such a large margin again.
The D Backs defense was good. It just wasn't good enough to justify such a large gap between FIP and ERA. Something else was afoot here. I maintain that SOME of that gap was due to luck/happestance, whatever. It's my position that it's a fools errand to forecast another year of beating FIP by .34
It's also my position that you have not presented any reasonable or rational argument to support the idea that the d backs will beat their fip by .34 two years in a row. Could it happen? Sure...of course, anything is possible. But the very defense metrics you yourself are pointing too just don't support such a large gap.
As I pointed out, my team wide projections ALREADY project a gap in FIP and ERA of .18 Thats already a lot. You seem to be clinging to something in the mid 30's.
So................is that your over under for FIP-ERA? Last years .34 ?
I'll definitely take the under Jim, and I'm willing to put something on it. As you are quite aware, all debates and arguments aside, I have a pretty good track record when it comes to these over/under bets. So are you game? Whats the bet?
Heading off to the Coyotes game. I'll look forward to seeing if you hold to 0.34 as the over under.
:-)
by shoewizard on Mar 11, 2008 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey don't rag on him
by seton hall snake pit on Mar 11, 2008 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm....
Good win for the Coyotes tonight. :-)
by Jim McLennan on Mar 12, 2008 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
blast of a game!!
(followed closely as a kid and early teens)
Regarding our debate:
It's just a matter of how much. The defense helped the pitchers. We all agree. But how much? Thats the most simplistic way to look at this.
How about this. From you posts here, I don't think it is unfair to conclude that you feel on a team wide basis the FIP-ERA figure should be as high or higher than last year. (0.34). My forecast of 0.18 has regressed that figure closer to the mean, (IMHO).
So lets see who is closer to THAT. Instead of one pitcher, where random fluctuation plays a much greater role, lets address the entire concept on a team wide basis. I agree over under on 0,.34 is not really a good bet for you ;).
So whoever is closer to the TEAM FIP-ERA number wins the bet. My number 0.18 vs. your number 0.34
We can figure out terms later. But do you accept these parameters?
by shoewizard on Mar 12, 2008 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It sounds like Rain Man's...
by foulpole on Mar 13, 2008 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which matters more?
by johngordonma on Mar 11, 2008 7:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It depends on the changeup
This year he is going to have to throw that pitch, and throw it effectively far more often, or guys will tee off on him. His slider doesn't have much bite to it. He locates his fastball really well, but it is a low 90's FB with moderate movement on a good day. So he really needs that 3rd pitch, and it's got to be a GOOD 3rd pitch, for him to be able to have sustained success as a starter.
I think he can do it, I believe he has the "intangibles" to learn and adapt. But it's a process, and it's not going to happen overnight in 2 more weeks of spring training. He got by on 2 pitches and deception and guts last year. This year he is going to need more than that. 2008 will still be very much a learning process for Micah.
I would not be worried even if he has a 4.60 ERA like my forecast. That is MUCH better than average for a 4th starter, and would probably given him an ERA+ of around 103-105
Seriously, if you asked Josh Byrnes right now....would you take a 105 ERA+ from Owings in 180 innings for 2008, he would snap that up in a heartbeat. Anything more than that is gravy.
by shoewizard on Mar 11, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hooray.
Brandon Webb: 2.91 ERA, 19-7
Dan Haren: 3.57 ERA, 16-9
Randy Johnson: 3.71 ERA, 14-6 (god willing)
Doug Davis: 4.60 ERA, 14-13
Micah Owings: 4.23 ERA, 11-11
by Azreous on Mar 11, 2008 3:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
About pitchers
Webb 2.98 20-6
Haren 3.44 17-8
Johnson 3.68 11-6
Davis 4.37 14-11
Owings 4.56 9-9
by DiamondbacksWIn on Mar 12, 2008 7:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Final Scores
- #1. Brandon Webb
ERA: 2.95 [range: 2.85/3.05]
WHIP: 1.13 [1.05/1.19]
Wins: 19 [17/20]
Losses: 8 [6/10] - #2. Doug Haren
ERA: 3.66 [range: 3.40/4.20]
WHIP: 1.24 [1.20/1.29]
Wins: 15 [13/17]
Losses: 10 [8/11] - #3. Randy Johnson
ERA: 3.73 [range: 3.33/4.30]
WHIP: 1.21 [1.14/1.30]
Wins: 11 [6/16]
Losses: 6 [3/7]
IP: 136 [90/165] - #4. Doug Davis
ERA: 4.49 [range: 4.15/4.84]
WHIP: 1.48 [1.39/1.56]
Wins: 12 [8/14]
Losses: 12 [11/13] - #5. Micah Owings
ERA: 4.28 [range: 3.85/4.75]
WHIP: 1.31 [1.22/1.55]
Wins: 11 [8/14]
Losses: 10 [8/15]
by Jim McLennan on Mar 16, 2008 9:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe...
by manphibian on Mar 16, 2008 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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