Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Diego Sanchez and the Dangers of Fame in MMA

Gameday Thread, #152: 9/18 vs. Giants

Jonathan Sanchez (24, LHP, 1-4, 5.29)
Micah Owings (24, RHP, 6-8, 4.78)

BaseballReference.com preview [opens in new window]

Had to pop in to the supermarket on the way home, so not much time to get this posted. It's the battle of the mediocre here, with neither starter having got past three innings in their previous outing. Indeed, Micah Owings hasn't gone that far this month - a disappointment after an August where he made six starts with a 3.03 ERA. Rumblings abound once more concerning his position in the rotation, and another bad outing could mean he may find himself in the #5 spot currently occupied by The Paramedic.

Any chance of a win tonight, guys? It'd be really helpful, especially as St. Louis are ahead of the Phillies (though after yesterday, no lead will ever seem safe in that series), and the Dodgers have dropped the first game of their double-header in Coors. This could, therefore, prove to be a valuable change to gain some breathing space: a good pitching performance and some hits with runners in scoring position, against a starter we beat last Wednesday, would certainly be a help in that regard.

Comment 351 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Must-win
This is most certainly a must-win game - a must-win for Owings, a must-win for morale, a must-win to keep the dogs at bay.

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 9:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh, there's a chance of a win
All we need is for Micah to hit more home runs than he allows.  And that's actually a possibility with him.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 9:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Lineup
  1. E Byrnes LF (.291)
  2. J Upton RF (.231)
  3. C Jackson 1B (.279)
  4. M Reynolds 3B (.268)
  5. C Young CF (.234)
  6. C Snyder C (.253)
  7. A Callaspo 2B (.207)
  8. A Ojeda SS (.259)
  9. M Owings (.288)
Note: the pitcher has the second-highest avg in this lineup.

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 9:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Not Bad
Once again moving in the right direction, only I would have Byrnes 3-5.  That bottom 3 can be moved around as well.

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

We need a win tonight!
Tony Gwynn says we won't make it to the playoffs this year when we are in 1st with around 12 games left.  Still doubters out there.

by DiamondbacksWIn on Sep 18, 2007 9:43 PM EDT reply actions  

O'Dog
Hey, everyone watching the FSAZ feed... Orlando Hudson is mic'd up tonight. That is going to be some fan-tastic TV if nothing else. But for those of us with the Giants' broadcast (which is at least in HD...the pretty...), can someone please please pleeeease transcribe what he says or at least talks about? (Not word-for-word, 'cause with the O'Dog, that's impossible..)

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 9:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Tonight's lineup
No Clark in the lineup, which will please certain people - probably including myself, actually. But then, I'd probably bat Owings above both Callaspo and Ojeda. In 52 at-bats, Micah has four homers; in 216 combined, Alberto and Augie have one...

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 9:44 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd agree with that
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 18, 2007 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the other hand...
It's kind of like pulling a La Russa... put the guy with a lower potential 8th and a position player 9th.. with Owings's average, that's sort of the way it is.

But I'd switch Callaspo and Ojeda, for sure.

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vizquel has the night off
That gives us a better chance of a win by itself!

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 9:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Out of the inning with a double play
Not a bad start to the game
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 9:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Upton vs Byrnes
Mike Krukow thinks Upton's arm is better than Byrnes'... he doesn't have the quick release but is otherwise better.. thoughts?

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 9:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I saw
Upton's throw in the futures game and was impressed, but it seems like everytime he has thrown the ball since, he throws it straight into the ground. like he holds it a split second too long. i dont know

by Adam1 on Sep 18, 2007 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jupton is inferior.
He hasn't got that whole flip thing down yet.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice of Winn
To ground into a double-play, just after Callaspo had failed to turn one.

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 9:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Good start
Owings with a pretty easy first inning. I'm pumped to have O-Dawg as the third member of the broadcast crew, it should be fun.

by LucaMaz3 on Sep 18, 2007 9:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Lucky
I wish I was getting the TV feed tonight.  Alas, I'm just stuck with radio...
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can ya'll transcribe?
I hate getting that broadcast blacked out, I desperately want to hear what Orlando says! That is going to be too funny.

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

We often seem to win the ones
we are not supposed to win.
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 18, 2007 9:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Batting
heck owings could bat 4th
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 9:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Holy cow!
I just checked my FSN channel, and they're showing the Rockies-Dodgers game.  David Wells has thrown ten pitches in his last two innings- total.  Seriously, did the Rockies forget how to take pitches?
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 9:51 PM EDT reply actions  

As I'm in the library studying,
I'll be keeping track with the MLB gameday feed, so my commenting should be spotty and somewhat behind the action.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 9:51 PM EDT reply actions  

That'll work
Not great, but it's nice to have Byrnes on base, for once.

by LucaMaz3 on Sep 18, 2007 9:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Typical Eric Byrnes at-bat
The ball goes about 15 feet. However, rather than going 80 into the air, it's into the ground for an infield hit. Wheels up...

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 9:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Jupton with a good eye tonight
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 9:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Aw! Damn.
There goes that steals streak. :(

That was a great tag... close...

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 9:54 PM EDT reply actions  

And.....
Byrnes caught stealing. What were the odds??
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 9:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Is it me
or does Molina seem to do well against us?

by DiamondbacksWIn on Sep 18, 2007 9:54 PM EDT reply actions  

It's not just you.
It's just Bengie Molina.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

stealing is a crime
u cant get it every time
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 9:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Yay.
Jesus walks.

Errr.... Jupton.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 9:55 PM EDT reply actions  

CoJack!
It would seem that Mr. Sanchez is not of the fooling persuasion tonight.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 9:58 PM EDT reply actions  

::Knock on wood::
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

2 on, 1 out
would be bases loaded or 1-0 Dbacks if Byrnes didn't run.

by LucaMaz3 on Sep 18, 2007 9:58 PM EDT reply actions  

So....
Here we go the rollercoaster never ceases ;)

We need a win...if only so I dont fear reading the baseball news at work tomorrow :)

by Wimb on Sep 18, 2007 9:58 PM EDT reply actions  

runs
no excuse not to score here
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 9:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Bases loaded
If Byrnes hadn't been caught...

C'mon, CY!

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 9:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Dammit....
Bases loaded, and it's..... CY.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 9:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Come on
mr. js has no stuff 2night
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 9:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Sac fly...
I would hope to get more, but I'll take it.

by LucaMaz3 on Sep 18, 2007 10:00 PM EDT reply actions  

1-0 :D
Can go to bed happy ;)

by Wimb on Sep 18, 2007 10:00 PM EDT reply actions  

could have been better
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 10:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Well.... a run is a run.
Would be great to see Chris Snyder light up Sanchez right here.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:01 PM EDT reply actions  

man
that foul was the first strike since CoJac
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 10:02 PM EDT reply actions  

A hit with RISP!
3-0 woohoooooo!

It's a start, boys..

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 10:02 PM EDT reply actions  

3-0!
Not a bad start!
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 10:02 PM EDT reply actions  

3-0...
Def go to bed happy :D go Snyderman!

by Wimb on Sep 18, 2007 10:02 PM EDT reply actions  

SNYDERMAN!!
:-D :-D :-D
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:02 PM EDT reply actions  

really
there is no way Owings can blow this is there?
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 10:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Goddammit!!!
Do not pass Go!! Knock on wood immediately, and go directly to Snakepit jail. :-P
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed!
Let's show some decorum, people.  
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Decorum?
Is decorum the word I'm looking for?  Probably not.  Protocol!  That's what I mean.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Decorum works, anyway?
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Protocol
We trotted out the amateurs tonight , and we're looking for a protocol up.
Barry Zito...not an embarrassment of riches , but a rich embarrassment.

by victor frankenstein on Sep 18, 2007 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think
You frightened poor Pigpen Fan away. :-( Please come back!

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

3-1 count on Alberto Freaking Callaspo??
Haha!! Sanchez sucks.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:04 PM EDT reply actions  

3-0 Good guys
Good baserunning by Reynolds to tag on the sac fly and score from second.

by LucaMaz3 on Sep 18, 2007 10:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Um.... he didn't?
He scored from 2nd on Snyderman's single.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry
I meant to tag and go to second on CY's flyout, and then score on Snyderman's single.

by LucaMaz3 on Sep 18, 2007 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

darn Padres
have Maddux on the mound
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 10:06 PM EDT reply actions  

According to gameday...
That ball 1 to Augie looked like a HBP.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:06 PM EDT reply actions  

By the way....
Nice to see Augie getting the start, so Drew can sit in time out and think about what he did yesterday. (Or didn't do)
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:07 PM EDT reply actions  

That's another run, at least
4 run lead is always nice.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Obviously
Obviously as I've stated in the lineup diary this type of lineup has gotten us to 4 runs EVERY SINGLE GAME & looks like it will tonight again...So why not stay with a very similar lineup until it doesn't work for a few nights or as I've also said AT LEAST LET IT FAIL ONCE.

How is that not overmanaging?  How can you not think this team could have a few more wins if we put this kind of lineup out there every day & a chance to get to 95 instead of 90?  Would this team have scored fewer runs for another manager; doubtful & why I feel that he is adequate does not deserve manager of the year. I know how...close minded people.   Enjoy the my rambling of the day...at least I'm not at work on the weekends & you guys get a break...LOL.

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Though it must be said...
It's only the third time we have had Byrnes at #1 and Upton at #2. Bit of a small sample...and one of those times was last Wednesday, against the same mediocre starter. In four innings against us, he has allowed ten hits and four walks. That will score a lot of runs, no matter how you arrange them!

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually
as cj said before, his lineup explictly has byrnes in the 3-5 spot, so he can't come here retroactively and change his tune.

by andrewinnewyork on Sep 18, 2007 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

bah :(
1 Run, But silly for Alberto :(

by Wimb on Sep 18, 2007 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

More baserunning blunders
Real bad blunder by Callaspo to get caught there. He was right in front of the cutoff man, he had to have seen that... unless for some reason he was being waved by Hale...

We gave that inning to Sanchez. Two of his outs were a caught-stealing and a rundown.

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Even worse
I think the "caught stealing" was actually a failed hit-and-run.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think so,
I don't have the benefit of replay but I don't remember seeing Byrnes looking back for the ball like runners are supposed to do on a hit and run.

Maybe I'm just giving BoMel the benefit of the doubt because hit and running in that situation just seems colossally stupid.  Of course, I may just be biased against hit and running in general after hearing a few too many rants against it by Carlos Gomez (ChadBradfordWannabe).

by dahlian on Sep 18, 2007 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I coculd be wrong
I'm listening to the radio feed, but I thought that they said Upton was swinging on that pitch.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

A big walk by
NQRFPT to start the rally.

Heh, even though I disagree with it, I'm beginning to think that NQRFPT is a better nickname than Option J.

by dahlian on Sep 18, 2007 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but dahlian....
....even Callaspo got a walk that inning.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure,
once Upton got in his head.

I kid, I kid.

Again, one at bat means nothing.

by dahlian on Sep 18, 2007 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Molina
Has 19 HR, and only 13 BB. Only one player in baseball history has ever had 19 or more homers, and fewer walks: former D-back, Carlos Baerga, who had 19 HR and only 10 walks, for Cleveland in 1994.

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 10:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Way to go Augie!!
Too bad Callaspo had to pull a dumbass move and end the inning. Still, the run counts. :-D
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:10 PM EDT reply actions  

come on Callapso
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 10:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Trivia Note from Mr. Sutton
The last time Byrnes was thrown out while stealing was 30 SB's ago, back on July 4th. By Yavier Molina

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 10:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Damn the Molinas!! Full speed ahead.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

BA
Dbacks hittin 1.000 today

by Adam1 on Sep 18, 2007 10:11 PM EDT reply actions  

I thought...
...sac bunts are the only out that don't get counted as an out in the hitter's line?
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope
Look at the box score.

by LucaMaz3 on Sep 18, 2007 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope
Sac flies are the same way.  Since our other outs came from base runners...
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Easy inning!
I think Micah's just anxious to bat..

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 10:13 PM EDT reply actions  

And 1-2-3
Another nice inning
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 10:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Uno dos tres.
Mas que cuatro goles anoche, ¿por favor?
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:13 PM EDT reply actions  

HAHAHA Giants pitching change already.
This could be a long game.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:15 PM EDT reply actions  

For the Giants
I don't seem to recall hearing much good about the Giants bullpen...
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except for their new closer
I forget his name right now, but he's pretty good.

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the guy with the 1.something ERA
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just go to McCovey Chronicles
You stay there about 5 minutes, and you'll see a brand new "F$*& our bullpen!"
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why travel?
F$& our bullpen!*
Barry Zito...not an embarrassment of riches , but a rich embarrassment.

by victor frankenstein on Sep 18, 2007 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Take two (I'd like to)
F@%# our bullpen!
Barry Zito...not an embarrassment of riches , but a rich embarrassment.

by victor frankenstein on Sep 18, 2007 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks!
Bringing the joy of McCC to US, I see?
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yay!
2-0 Pirates on a Bay double.

by LucaMaz3 on Sep 18, 2007 10:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Sanchez out!
Now that was fast... we know we can hit against the bullpen!

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 10:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Micah
I'm not including his last 5 starts because I feel Melvin has wore him down & he definitely needed the extra rest.  

Doesn't it seem like he has to be treated like Pedro & almost be a 5 inning pitcher especially with all the relievers we have now.  He just doesn't seem to have the stamina.  I think his ERA would be almost cut in half if he was pulled an inning or 2 earlier instead of Melvin trying to push him to 100 pitches every single time out when he always struggled when his number hit around 80.  I'm just wondering if it's been my imagination.

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know...
Half his problems have come when he hasn't been able to get out of, or get to, the 5th inning. Those would be some interesting stats to look at though, his ERA and WHIP after the 5th inning.

He's had some real good 7-inning starts though..

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

You have NO freaking clue what you're talking bout
Look at Micah's OBA per inning. It shoots up in the later innings because they've seen him already and seen what he can do. It's not so much that he gets tired as that he needs to work on a 3rd pitch still.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, c'mon, he's got a point
You both agree his numbers get higher during late innings, you just don't agree on why.

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed
I do agree with him to a point & of course it is a contributing factor as it is with all major league pitchers, but when it's hard to get anyone out & you hit a wall...usually that is fatigue.

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's just fatigue
"Fatigue" is not the only reason guys get pulled from games. There's a lot more to it than that, and you know that 'cause you've made the points already. :) Some guys get mechanical tweaks as the game goes on, even though they could continue to throw. Or, as 'Skins said, there comes a point where the opposition just knows what's coming. That's not fatigue either.

It's very possible that is part of Micah's problem though.

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can't argue any of that
In my opionion I do feel fatigue may be an issue, giving him extra days off is the only way to find out though.  I agreed with you guys, but with him struggling early in his last 5 starts I felt he was worn down from the year.  That would contribute to me thinking he fatigues more than the usual pitcher & why I brought it up.  That's why I thought some extra time off & would benefit him greatly.  Pitching him every 5 days for 100 pitches may not be great for a pitcher like Michah.  Not all ball players can handle that at the big league level.

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's possible that since this is his first year
in the bigs, he's not used to the longer schedule, but I really think the major reason is his lack of options, because this has been an issue since early in the season.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very possible
Did not consider that...

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sanchez was fatigued!
LOL , and thanks for that!
Barry Zito...not an embarrassment of riches , but a rich embarrassment.

by victor frankenstein on Sep 18, 2007 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't have a clue
Mr. Snakepit has already put up the stats showing batters hit him harder the second time they see him & much harder the 3rd time.  Tell us something we don't know buddy.  I'm just thinking some pitchers don't have the stamina like Pedro.  I'm sure his stats over the last few years would show that batters hit him much harder the 3rd time they see him, what that's because they know what he's got?  ROTFLMAO...you my friend really are a joke.  You always can disprove a statement with 1 little stat or insult can't you, that takes a lot of intelligence & maturity for that matter.

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's keep the decorum
And save the personal attacks for email...

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

ROTFLAMWHGKOMGBBQ @ cj
Um.... if the OBA increases incrementally each time, it means the opposing batters are figuring you out over time.

If it were about the pitcher getting tired, you'd expect to see a general plateau then a steep climb in OBA, rather than a consistent upturn.

Sincerely,

="The Joke"

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pushover
Thanks for the enlightenment, now you have stats & know when pitchers are tired.  What are the stats to show players revved up?  I'm curious enlighten please, you seem to have all the answers tonight.

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

"To show players revved up"
Please explain the relevance of this statement?
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

SNAKECHARMER
As usual this is about where he shuts up because he just looks stupid when trying to call others an idiot and tell them they don't have a clue.

Oh that's right my response is too long for you to read & you can't understand my English...that's why you won't respond.  LOL

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

ROFLMFAOATASOHH @ CJ LOL!!!111!!!oneone!!!
(That's rolling on the floor laffing my effing ass off and taking a shit on his head)

Actually, I already responded. Look before you leap occasionally, will you?

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I was very surprised
But as usual with nonsense proving nothing but your opinion.

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Ferdinand The Duck..."
"...witness to insanity."
Barry Zito...not an embarrassment of riches , but a rich embarrassment.

by victor frankenstein on Sep 18, 2007 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ignorance
When all you have are opinions calling other people's opinions on matters clueless and dumb is just revealing your own ignorance my friend.  Even on this post someone was curious as to the results...he's a clueless jerk too for even considering that.  I'm sure there are others who feel this way on this board & you are calling them out as well everytime you attack me for these opinions.  Much of what I say is agreed upon with many of the memebers if you take the time to read them, so maybe you should think before you attack everything I say.  For once you had some intelligence behind your reasoning albeit mustly just forms an opinion I'll give you some credit for actually having some thoughts on it.  Hey even Clark has a great game once in a while; sh*t happens.  

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, cj....
I'm not really interested in going into this debate because we've already been there, and done that. In fact we've been talking about this for months. Micah's slow changeup he came up with in the heat of the moment in a game a few weeks back was a step in the right direction.

It's not fatigue, so much as he's got a very limited arsenal, and batters start to figure that out over time. The only pitchers who can really get by on two pitches are power pitchers, a la Randy Johnson's fastball and slider.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good for you
That's a nice opinion & I can see why you have it.

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pwnings lives up to his nickname again.
Although I'm disappointed it wasn't a HR. :-P
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow!
I love having Owings in the lineup.

by LucaMaz3 on Sep 18, 2007 10:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Argh!!
That deserves a knock on wood too! Now say you're sorry...
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brynes needs a day off
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 10:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Pwings can run too
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 10:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Passed ball.
Damn. The Giants DO suck. Although, to be fair, it's somewhat tough catching a sinkerballer.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:20 PM EDT reply actions  

y is Bay batting sixth
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 10:20 PM EDT reply actions  

This is what I'm talking about a guy on third
With 3 very capable hitters coming up in a row & not being able to pitch carefully until you get to Clark or Drew.

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 10:21 PM EDT reply actions  

dang it
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 10:22 PM EDT reply actions  

I went to cook pasta!
4 runs!  Good thing it's not a full British Sunday roasted dinner that's lucky!
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 18, 2007 10:23 PM EDT reply actions  

CoJack rips it
but right into the glove of Roberts.

by LucaMaz3 on Sep 18, 2007 10:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Enjoy it while you can.
We cashed in Peter Magowan's Safeway profit sharing bennies and we bought the Yankees , they'll be subbing in soon.
Barry Zito...not an embarrassment of riches , but a rich embarrassment.

by victor frankenstein on Sep 18, 2007 10:23 PM EDT reply actions  

O rly?
George Steinbrenner tried something like that once.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

O rly a
Once?
Annually!
Barry Zito...not an embarrassment of riches , but a rich embarrassment.

by victor frankenstein on Sep 18, 2007 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pausing...
I am dining. Will still be watching this, so let's hope nothing happens to make me lose my appetite...

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 10:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Mets lose!
If we win we have the best record in NL!

by DiamondbacksWIn on Sep 18, 2007 10:24 PM EDT reply actions  

can we talk, I dont know....
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 10:30 PM EDT reply actions  

do they want to waste pitchers
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 10:31 PM EDT reply actions  

we are only winning by 4
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 10:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Dnag pit
Maybe this is the year

by Pigpen Fan on Sep 18, 2007 10:34 PM EDT reply actions  

MarK!
It's okay. He's back to the norm.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:34 PM EDT reply actions  

::sigh::
CY, you can't hit a triple EVERY night.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Are you at your email?
'Cause I can tell you're not on IM. ;)

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh.... I'll take down my away msg now,
since I'm not really having any success studying.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whisky Tango Foxtrot, Chris Young
What were you doing? Totally dogging it out of the box - he either thought it was foul or a homer, and didn't start running until it landed. Then tried to make it to third. Bad, bad, bad, all the way round.

Sorry, I just had to leave my dinner for a moment to say that. I'm going back to eating now. :-)

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 10:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Did anyone notice...
Micah was perfect for 3? Not bad at all. Let's keep it to a minimum... let's get Roberts stealing..

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 10:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Not quite perfect
He did walk the first batter of the game, but still, no hits through three is perfectly fine to me!

by TwinnerA on Sep 18, 2007 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, I can say it.
There goes the no-hitter. :-P
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:42 PM EDT reply actions  

been lurking
did you guys know we have the best record by a half a game over the mets?
Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Sep 18, 2007 10:48 PM EDT reply actions  

What?
Another DP to get Winn out?
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 18, 2007 10:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah.
suitsme, will you write a letter to Sabean? I think you've got a real winner in Sanchez, and I hope you guys will keep him. :-D
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's drive it out, Micah!!
C'mon... Pwnings can't possibly be satisfied with 1 extra base hit in this game?
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Next AB. Right Micah?
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Upton in RF
I think Upton plays a lot better in this ballpark than on the road. I guess he just needs to adjust to the various parks... CY had his troubles too..

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 10:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow....
Pwnings, as of the 4th pitch to Schierholtz:

51 pitches, 33 strikes, 18 balls.

THAT'S efficiency.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 10:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Help
Where here on Snakepit is the glossary or wherever it tells about the players' nicknames?  I can't seem to find it.

by TwinnerA on Sep 18, 2007 10:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Snakepit quick reference guide is
right here, and Jim's personal introduction is right here.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Snakepit 101
Here you are:

Snakepit 101

It's pretty far down the right sidebar.

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks!
I just wanted to check to see if Micah is ever referred to here as the Marshall after the old TV show The Rifleman.  Of course, most of you here are too young to remember Paul Fix as Marshall Micah Torrance.  I loved watching that show in reruns when I was a kid.  Chuck Connors aka Lucas McCain was one badass!

by TwinnerA on Sep 18, 2007 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm.... interesting
Can't say that I've personally heard it around here.... anyone? Jim?
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nicely obscurist :-)
Wikipedia

Not heard of it, but then, growing up in Britain, we had three channels...

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Micah
As I recall, Lucas always called him by his first name, Micah, and not Marshall, and I couldn't even recall without checking IMDB.com to see if he was actually a Marshall or a Sheriff.

by TwinnerA on Sep 18, 2007 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I also note
He was a recovering alcoholic, so perhaps not the most appropriate name for Owings! :-)

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then again.....
That also means that we could call LaRussa "Marshall Micah"
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good AB for Schierholtz,
but not good enough to not pop out to Mark.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Lineup
I do recall saying this type of lineup will allow us to put up crooked numbers especially in the 1st & not have to win all these 1 run games.  Instead of attacking me why not admit that Melvin is making a mistake & not a genius & should stick with it for a while until we don't score some runs?  That's right you guys enjoy keeping me in the dark.  I did not even notice Drew wasn't there...I really like that.  2 Months ago I said I would play Ojeda there instead.  You can only play someone hitting .230 for some long with out giving some of this young talant at least a shot to play better.  As I've said that don't have to "settle" for anyone at any position.  Great team.  Put Bona at 2nd.  You guys fight with me about that.  About Young leading off, but Melvin usually sees the light and with 3 of these lineup out of 5 nights I think he's turning another corner.  Clark, I think he his just blinded by the experienced Teddy Bear that he doesn't have the heart to sit.  He'll need a smack to stop starting him.

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 11:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Might I direct you to that diary...
...where you first made your assertion about the lineup order? It's been responded to by andrewinnewyork and I.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

tl;dr
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 18, 2007 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course...
It is worth pointing out, that the lineups Melvin has put out there, have got Arizona to the top of the division, despite having one of the worst offenses in the league...

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

As some of us think
It is in spite of in my opinion & a few others...  Only a few ways to mess it up more, batting our pitchers 5th for example.  With all the talant they would have scored this amount of runs regardless...I'd love to hear your reason why they would have scored less though.

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you really need a reason why...
...we would have scored fewer runs?

How about we have the lowest team BA in the NL?

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Errr....
I just noticed the gameday thread says we're playing the Dodgers.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Good catch
I caught the date Sunday, but didn't see that one.

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yah, I changed it immediately
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Told you
It went up in a hurry. Either that, or I'm a couple of days ahead of myself.

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was my thought.
Between "Dodgers" and "Sunday", might someone have been thinking about Snakepitfest?
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pedro Feliz with the double...
...but no trouble.

Micah has a 2-hitter through 5. (Remembering the series in Washington)

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:06 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm only going off the gameday feed...
...but it looked like a pretty impressive play by Atchison to get CoJack out?
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Yep
Right back at the pitcher, at about the same speed it was delivered. If he hadn't got his glove to it, it would have performed open heart-surgery on Aitchison.

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh very
It was a screamer, right at his chest. He had to reach back slightly too.

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Phillies tied, bottom of the ninth
Dodgers beating Colorado in the second part of the double-header, Padres ahead of the Pirates. Must keep this one as it is...

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 11:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Just Micah's 2nd punchout of the night
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:15 PM EDT reply actions  

This is the Micah we know and love
Hitting is nice, but six shutout innings is what we pay him for. Only 74 pitches, so another one at least seems likely.

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 11:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Leave it to the Giants to instill confidence
in Pwnings. :-D
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice outing so far
Six scoreless innings.  Micah is looking good.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 11:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Home run for Reynolds!
Now that's the Giants bullpen we know and love.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 11:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Mark Reynolds is a monster.....
I didn't see that one, of course, but snakecharmer's reaction told it all.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Monster shot!!!
Everyone knew that was out! Giants' broadcasters are awed as well.

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 11:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Special K!!!
I   love you.Some of you Pitters may have guessed at this.
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 18, 2007 11:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Last nights game
Forgot to mention this, I was watching the end of last nights game.  Don't you think something is wrong with your lineup when you can & should pinch hit for 3 of your top 4 batters in the lineup?  At the very least 2 of them.  I think I am entitle to my right to believe Melvin does not give us our best chance to win on many nights & does not deserve manager of the year as I think that should be a large part of the criteria for winning the award.

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 11:19 PM EDT reply actions  

You're right
Let's forfeit the rest of the season.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

You have a right
Many of us just don't happen to agree with you.

I think it shows an abundance of talent and options for our lineup. It's nice to know when guys have bad nights, they can easily be substituted for.

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's like having a parrot in the house.
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 18, 2007 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're entitled to believe whatever you want.
It's not so much your opinion that we find offensive so much as your delivery.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Additionally....
One of the oft-cited reasons that this team has done so well this year, especially in 1 run games, is their strength off the bench. We're far and away first in pinch hit OPS and pinch hit homers in the league.

So, if anything, that's a sign of depth.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay, a real answer
Instead of snark.

Seriously?  You think we should have pinch hit for Drew, Salazar, and Clark?  Clark has the best (non-Micah Owings) slugging average on the team, Salazar is #4 on the team in batting average, excepting Owings and players on the DL, and Drew- well, Drew...  Unless you meant Byrnes in there for one of them, which makes even less sense.

I see pinch-hitting for Drew, but I can see reasons for leaving the other three in there.

I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anything?
Hello?  Hello?  Or are you going to admit you're actually just here to annoy people, and not actually interested in any sort of discussion at this point?
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

At work
Hey I do have to work sometime...

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah
Well you got Jackson on the bench & I'd rather have him up there in a big spot instead of Clark or Salazar.  Yes Melvin will never pinch hit for Clark, that doesn't mean it's the right move though.  Salazar is fighting for starting time...ok I'll change my statement...When you can strongly consider hitting for 3 of your top 4 in the lineup, you are not putting your best lineup or even close on a daily basis.

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Second double for Young
Good to have the bats working.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 11:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Deja vu
and the second time he made an out at 3rd.  This time I guess he was trying to get closer to 30 stolen bases, I guess.

by TwinnerA on Sep 18, 2007 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aargh
They were saying, Chris Young won't need to have been told he did wrong after his first gaffe, and it won't happen again...

Sigh...

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh my....
2 CS's tonight??

Guys, be careful. This isn't the PADRES, after all...

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:20 PM EDT reply actions  

What is Callaspo thinking tonight??
1-2 with a walk and a double? (Albeit with getting caught at 3rd)

It's like someone told him that he doesn't suck.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Little suckage
at Chase Field so far tonight, knock wood!!!

by TwinnerA on Sep 18, 2007 11:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow.... Mets have now lost five straight
That's NOT getting it done.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:32 PM EDT reply actions  

How's O'Dog doing?
I am missing the broadcast, what's he talked about so far???

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 11:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Usually with something like this,
I think the better question is "What has O-Dawg NOT talked about? And when will he GET to it??"
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love O'Dog
Someone should keep a word counter on that man, including all the "You know what I'm sayin'?"s. That'd be, like, in the thousands by night end...

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

They asked him the Aflac trivia question
And credit to Grace for helping bail him out, since it was about the 1988 Giants - Hudson was 11, that was Grace's rookie year! They also asked him if he was scoreboard-watching, and he said he was keeping an eye on the Blue Jays. Clark ripped him a new one for saying that when he went back to the dugout! :-)

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL
That's good. Tony Clark's really a more emotive guy when you don't have a mic in his face.

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Getting ANY runs off Saito is impressive.
Then again, he might be one of those closers who's just not that impressive when it's not a save situation?
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except it was..
So I don't know about that.. :)

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

C'mon Pittsburgh!
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 18, 2007 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

And go Cardinals!
Saint Louis is trying to rally in the bottom of the 10th...
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Colorado 3, Dodgers 1.
Walkoff HR in the 9th for the Rox.

Keep beating the Dodgers!! Now if we could only get the Bucs to oblige, as well....

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Haha, good call. Thanks.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even better
I'm glad to see David Wells returning to his regular numbers.  As they say, it couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I said they were the team I considered to be t
the most capable of making a big run at the end of the season
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 18, 2007 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm....
After suddenly forgetting to suck in the 1st inning, our offense (with the exception of Mark's blast) has relearned how to suck.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:40 PM EDT reply actions  

St Louis
Have the tying run at third with one out...

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 11:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Tie game again
On a sac. fly. C'mon, St. Louis!

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tied
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

So...
Send Owings out for the ninth?

by Jim McLennan on Sep 18, 2007 11:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow, great outing
Honestly, guys, who among us really thought that Micah might pitch through the eighth?
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me... sorta?
From the recap thread of last night's game:

"Well...

I wasn't saying that we don't have a chance, but Micah's last couple outings haven't been so hot. He'll either go for 6 innings and allow 1 run, or for 3 innings and allow 4 runs. That's just how he is.

As for me, I'm hoping for the former. I still think we have what it takes to win the division, or if not, certainly the wild card.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.
by DbacksSkins on Tue Sep 18, 2007 at 12:15:05 PM PDT
[ Parent | Reply to This ] (delete)"

Okay, okay, so I hedged my bets. And I didn't say 8th, I said 6th.... but still. ;-)

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah the guy with the crystal ball
It this the same guy arguing tonight it's not fatigue that was Micah's problem.  He repeatedly stated Michah has 2 pitches and batters kill him the 3rd time up because they know what's coming?  Now you want to try and take credit for thinking he'd go really deep tongiht, boy you sure can twist anything around can't you?  Well got to go home...enjoy the game fellows, I'll be listening on satallite.

by cj060896 on Sep 18, 2007 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

This, coming from the guy
Who earlier in this very thread argued that Micah gets fatigued in the late innings.

Can we say "complete game shutout"?

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Do you enjoy being cross?
I find it quite fatiguing.
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 19, 2007 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm
I've checked with the judges, and I'm afraid we cannot accept your "They're both even numbers, right?" defense.  Sorry.  ;-)
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you were
talking about 8 runs, it was I.  I had zero hope for this game when i saw who was pitching.

by unnamedDBacksfan on Sep 19, 2007 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I say yes
But get Cruz or Wickman up at the first sign of trouble.

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was just discussing that with snakecharmer.
91 pitches so far, 61 strikes? Why not?

BoMel's history says he'll more than likely allow Micah to try to finish the game.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 18, 2007 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes,he deserves the chance
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 18, 2007 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure it's good for his ego,
but isn't it best to try and save the arm of a pitcher who has obviously been having fatigue problems of late?

There really isn't anything gained by having him go out there for another inning.  It's a five run game.  Just about any person in the bullpen could finish this game easily.

Sometimes it's the job of the manager to look a young kid in the eye and say "I know you really want this kid, but it's in the best interest of the team for you to take a seat now".  He's a big boy.  His ego can take it.

by dahlian on Sep 18, 2007 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

No,I think any time we can rest
this bullpen the better.
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 19, 2007 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's a five run lead.
You can toss Nippert out there for that and have 99.99% chance of winning the game.  T

here are fifteen pitchers on this roster.  They don't all need to be rested.  Pena, Valverde and Lyon - yes, but they aren't the only people on this team capable of holding a five run lead for an inning.

It's just an unnecessary risk.  This is minor as nitpicks go, but the sort of thing that unchecked can devastate a rotation in the long term.

by dahlian on Sep 19, 2007 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

And I have a feeling...
...that as soon as Micah gave up a run, he was outta there.

But you can't not let a young pitcher go out for the 9th, when he's got a shutout going, especially when he's at 91 pitches through 8.

BoMel's done the same thing with Brandon Webb this year. Turnabout is fair play.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why?
Seriously, why can't you pull a young pitcher after eight.  Is that some hidden rule that I'm unaware of?

In baseball you have a roster of 25+ hungry players that want to be out there every play.  Sometimes the manager has to make the tough decision and sit a guy even though they're doing well.  That's life.  Owings can just suck it up and go out there again in five days and try to repeat his performance.

And of course, BoMel has taken this route with Webb several times this year.  It's one thing to leave your ace in their for the ninth when he's at ninety pitches and it's a close ball game - but some of those complete games (and others 100+ pitch outings) came with leads of three runs or more.

Sure it's easy to just leave him out there, but was it best for the team in the long run.  I don't know, how's Webb been doing his last few starts.  He doesn't seem to be showing any signs of wearing down or anything, does he?

by dahlian on Sep 19, 2007 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

His pitch count was low,he was hitting his spots
there seemed to be no reason to pull him out and every reason for his confidence to let him  stay in.Plus the bullpen regulars have done a lot all season and a day off could not hurt.
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 19, 2007 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

You don't have to use the bullpen regulars
to hold an eight run lead.

His pitch count wasn't obscenely high, but look at how much Owings improved with a little bit more rest.  Doesn't it make sense to at least continue trying to get him as much rest as possible?

And his confidence, seriously?  Do you think so little of Owings mental state he's not mature enough to sit down and take a rest once the game is out of reach?  He just pitched eight scoreless innings, if that's not enough to boost his confidence than I don't know what is.

And how come it's ok to harm the confidence of Upton by not letting him stay in late in a five run game, but for Owings it's too much?  These are grown men - Bob Melvin shouldn't have to indulge them like children when there's a significant chance that what they want now, may not be in their best interest down the road.

by dahlian on Sep 19, 2007 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Um....
"And how come it's ok to harm the confidence of Upton by not letting him stay in late in a five run game, but for Owings it's too much?"

Dahlian, the state of mind of a pitcher is much, much more important than the state of mind of a fielder. Generally, fielding is more dependent on instinct and muscle memory than a "state of mind." (Although if you're distracted, that's different)

Pitching is all about state of mind, confidence in your ability and your quiver of pitches, etc. You'll very rarely hear anyone around baseball talk about "confidence" in the case of a fielder, but you'll hear it all the time with regards to pitchers.

Besides, I have a feeling that BoMel pulling NQRFPT, Mr. "Potential" himself, could have had just as much to do with the fact that he went ohfer the game.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Might I direct your attention to your own post?
Firstly, might I just note something? You say that "It's one thing to leave your ace in their for the ninth when he's at ninety pitches and it's a close ball game", before immediately attacking your own argument with "He doesn't seem to be showing any signs of wearing down or anything, does he?" If you're SO worried about wearing down your pitcher's arm, wouldn't you be LESS inclined to allow your ace to pitch a long game than your 4th (or even 5th) starter, Micah Owings? Especially when Owings is on a roll?

Secondly, you leave your pitcher out there to reward what he's done for you so far, because he's earned it. Micah earned it by going through 8 innings and mowing down the Giants. It's that kind of rigid, management-by-rote style that ran Buck Showalter out of town.

Finally, WHY would you pull Pwnings at all?? He's not only pitching on extra rest, but through 8 innings, he'd only thrown 91 freaking pitches. That's less than he usually throws through 6. Pitch count is more important than innings pitched to a starter's arm.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Are you serious?
[i]Firstly, might I just note something? You say that "It's one thing to leave your ace in their for the ninth when he's at ninety pitches and it's a close ball game", before immediately attacking your own argument with "He doesn't seem to be showing any signs of wearing down or anything, does he?" If you're SO worried about wearing down your pitcher's arm, wouldn't you be LESS inclined to allow your ace to pitch a long game than your 4th (or even 5th) starter, Micah Owings? Especially when Owings is on a roll?[/i]

I'm saying that if it's a close game and the best pitcher on your staff is out there on a roll you should leave him in because he provides the best chance for winning that ballgame.  But if it's a lead of three or more runs you should pull him for the ninth inning and save his arm.

How is that being inconsistent?  This game obviously fits into that latter category, and unfortunately many of Webb's 100+ pitch outings do as well.  In both cases it's completely unnecessary to leave your starter in there.  The marginal gain you get from his performance is negligible when you have so many runs to play with.

It's all cost-benefit analysis.  You don't want to extend your ace if you don't have, but sometimes you do have to.  Hopefully, if he's managed correctly those rare few instances when he needs to pushed won't catch up with him.  But when you make a habit of letting him repeatedly go long because you want to "reward" him, then you just set him up for a September collapse just like what Webb is experiencing now.

by dahlian on Sep 19, 2007 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just one question about your argument, for now...
You really believe that 101 pitches is too many? What do YOU think is a "normal" pitch count for a starting pitcher?
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's not too many,
it's just unnecessary.

It's reasonable as pitch counts go, but it's nice to give be able to give your starters an early rest in the blowouts to save their arm for those games down the road when it may be crucial for them to go a little deeper in games.

It's a long baseball season.  I believe it's best to give your starters a little lighter workload whenever possible, because if you keep going to well in blowouts like this, then eventually you're going to come to a big game, with a narrow lead and you're going to want your starting pitcher to be able to go 115-120 strong pitches, but he won't be able to because he pitched so many of these stupid mop up innings that Jailen Pegeuro would have been just as well throwing in - you know, to build [i]his[/i] confidence up.

by dahlian on Sep 19, 2007 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

If the starter pitcher doesn't have the confidence
then he's not going to be able to give you that good outing down the road anyway. You really don't think Micah's going to be able to build off of this for his next start?

Additionally, I KEEP trying to tell you, if you want to make the html work, you have to use "<>" rather than "[]".

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

In general
Any outing of 100 pitches or less is not seen as having any significant impact down the road. [Google 'Pitcher Abuse Points' if you want more info on this] so there's no reason why Micah shouldn't be able to pitch just as long next time out, regardless of whether he went eight or nine tonight. The other key thing is, by letting Owings pitch there, when the game was not really on the line, he'll be better prepared for a situation where the game is close, because he has been there before.

Plus after the nightmare of last night, where Peña gave up five runs on seventeen pitches... :-(

by Jim McLennan on Sep 19, 2007 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't get me started on PAP
it's about as arbitrary as Win Shares.  Any stat which clings to 100 because its nice and round but then tries to justify it away by other means, doesn't pass the smell test for me.  Combine that with its neglect to account for pitches per inning and I'm convinced that it's nothing more than a toy.    Interesting fact, most of the pitchers that total up high PAP points are actual less inclined to go down with injuries than usual.  In this day and age there's been enough pitch count control that the ones with the large totals are the rubber-armed Livos, Randys and Clemens of the world.

But it's close.  I'm not saying this is a huge deal, but this a tendency of BoMel's that I do find somewhat disconcerting.  My philosophy is just that pitchers are like batteries.  They use up so much charge every outing and then are slowly recharged in their off days.  Usually this evens out, but sometimes they'll have a short game that lets them make up ground and sometimes they'll have a long game that puts them even further in the negative.

I would like for my starters to be saved whenever possible to give them a net positive to preemptively make up for any long outings that could be more necessary in the future.

Sure, I have no real evidence to back any of that up, but at the very least, it's no less arbitrary that pitcher abuse points.

by dahlian on Sep 19, 2007 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

BoMel agrees about pitcher confidence...
...and how important it is, especially to a young guy. Lifted directly from the AP recap:

"''You could see his confidence come back around the third or fourth inning,'' Melvin said. ''He realized, 'I know what I'm doing again.'''"

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah,
his confidence came back around in the third or fourth inning after he'd had his success.

What does the ninth inning have to do with that?  If he had his confidence back already, what's the point in pushing him the extra inning?

by dahlian on Sep 19, 2007 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because more confidence never hurts,
and a complete game shutout is a pretty impressive pitching achievement. It's like if your boss came to you and said, "Hey, would you like me to pay you more money?" and you responded, "No thanks, I'm doing just fine on my salary right now." Finishing 9 innings isn't going to have any effect on Micah's next time out because he threw only 101 pitches. I'm REALLY not sure why this is even such a debate? Or why you're so set on only allowing Micah to pitch 8. For that matter, your argument doesn't see anything wrong with pulling him after the 7th, or 6th, or 5th. Sure, why don't we just pull Micah after 5 shutout innings, so he can pitch a complete game next time out? Err... not a complete game, since we don't allow that, but another 5 innings.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 3:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah yes, the slippery slope card -
There's a huge difference between getting one inning and two innings.  There's an even bigger difference from two to three.  It's all cost benefit and at one inning - the cost is extremely negligible.  The benefit is small as well - but over the course of a season that all adds up.

You're making it sound like throwing 101 pitches in a game of major league baseball is a walk in the park.  That's all additional, unnecessary stress on an arm.

You also completely ignore what that opportunity for  "building confidence" could have meant to to all the other young pitchers on this staff.  Were in the middle of a pennant race with a shaky rotation.  This was an opportunity for us to give a young guy like Nippert or Petit to work in a rare low leverage situation to establish their own confidence and another opportunity for the coaching staff to evaluate their ability to get major league hitters out.  Every single game we're not sure if our starting pitcher is even going to make it past four innings and I'd rather they have a chance to "build up their confidence" now than in the fifth inning of a 5-4 ball game after the Hernandez just got pulled.

Think of all of MCAA (Marginal Confidence Above Average) lost!  I think the boost of an eight inning shutout to a nine inning shut out is less than the amount of confidence gained by giving a rook another chance to show his mettle.

by dahlian on Sep 19, 2007 4:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're missing the point.
Also, you're now switching arguments. If you read one of my posts on the recap thread of a few days ago, when DNip came in to pitch a scoreless inning, I said exactly what you're saying: that I'd like to see him and some of the other young guys get some looks in a non-blowout loss situation. And sure, Nippert might have pitched a scoreless, confidence-building inning tonight. Or, he might have allowed a run to blow the shutout. But that's irrelevant.

The point is, it's not just a question of pitching enough scoreless innings. It's a question of allowing Micah to finish what he starts, like the great pitchers always do. Why did BoMel allow Webby to stay in the game during the scoreless inning streak? Why did BoMel allow him to throw 3 complete games in a row? Because he earned that right, just as Micah earned the right tonight.

There's a good chance the Dbacks will be in other games over this home stretch when they will have leads, and those would be fine times to let Piggy or DNip or the Petit Unit have a go. But the Dbacks aren't likely to have a starter pitch another 2 hitter. This was Micah's game, and it's not fair to let another guy steal his thunder.

Let's examine your contention about Micah's fatigue. He already had a fresh arm coming in tonight, since he last pitched on the 8th, 10 days ago, and only threw 65 pitches, and before that, he threw 44 on the 3rd. Even including tonight's 101 pitch game, that's still only an average of 70 pitches in his last 3 games. That's VERY low for a starter. Add in the fact that over that time period, most pitchers would have thrown 4 games rather than three, and THEN factor in the fact that he threw a total of 210 pitches over 20 days.

Finally, what the heck kind of damage is another 10 pitches going to do? You really think the ten pitches Micah threw during the 9th are going to have any measurable fatigue effect for his next time out? Come on now. Steve Busby was throwing 200 pitches per game when he tore his shoulder. That's a pretty far cry from 91 or 101, especially when Micah's still averaging lower than that.

This isn't just a BoMel thing, or a Dbacks thing. 99.9% of MLB managers in history leave Micah out there for the 9th, and of those 0.1% that don't? None of them ever won so much as their division.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 5:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also...
...you keep saying that it's BoMel "pushing" Micah to go back out for the 9th. That's BS. If a pitcher has a 2-hit shutout going, it's HIM pushing the MANAGER to keep letting him go out there. No major league pitcher wants to give up the ball. If they're willing to give it back to the manager, then they shouldn't be in the bigs.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're reading far too much
into a colloquialism.  

I said earlier that of course Micah wanted to go out.  Every single player on that roster wants to got out there every game.  It's the manager's job to say no in the best interests of the team.

by dahlian on Sep 19, 2007 4:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reading in far too much? Not at all.
There's a BIG difference between when a pitcher is actually being pushed by the manager and when it's the pitcher pushing the manager.

When Livan Hernandez has given up 8 hits, 4 walks, and 3 runs, in the 6th, and is actually cashed, and everyone in the stadium knows it, and BoMel asks him, "Livan, do you think you can go out for another inning?" And he says, "You're goddamned right I can. It's what I do," THAT'S the manager pushing the player, even though Livan DOES want the ball. However, Livan knows when he's at his limit, and would have given it up willingly.

But when it's Micah Owings, the rookie, and he doesn't have a complete game shutout in his life, and it's the end of the 8th, and he's only thrown 91 pitches, and he's retired the last 10 straight batters, and only allowed 2 hitters and a walk the entire game, you'd BETTER believe that Micah is pushing BoMel to let him go back out. Not only that, but it's generally accepted in baseball that when a guy is having a game like that, you LET him go back out. You're going to have to get a pair of pliers to pry his fingers off the ball, and if you DO that, if you don't give Micah his chance to finish the shutout, there's going to be at least a twinge of disappointment or even resentment from Micah, and certainly some players in that clubhouse are going to agree.

Imagine you have a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle, and you take breaks every once in awhile. Well, after you've put 888 of the pieces together, you take a break, and come back to find out that someone else finished the puzzle FOR you. Well, that was sure nice of them, wasn't it? After all, ultimately, the goal was to finish the puzzle, right? Plus, now you have more time and less mental fatigue to start on another one.

I don't know about you, dahlian, but I'd be pissed.

There was no reason to pull Micah, and no good manager would have done so.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 5:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm fine with it
[ isn't it best to try and save the arm of a pitcher who has obviously been having fatigue problems of late? ]

I don't feel his problems are fatigue-related. He pitched 162 innings last year, and even after the complete game today, he's only at 151.2 (including his one start for Tucson). In addition, he threw 44 and 65 pitches his last two outings, and skipped his last start (it was replaced by a simulated game), so he hasn't really been overtaxed.

I think, sending him out there for the ninth is a good boost to his confidence, and that's what I was more concerned about after his last couple of outings. This is a huge boost for Owings' morale, and will hopefully be repaid in his final start.

by Jim McLennan on Sep 19, 2007 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

What's the difference
between eight scoreless innings and nine scoreless inning when it comes to boosting morale?

I'll have to respectfully disagree on the issue of whether his issues are fatigue related: when you go two straight starts giving up a total of twelve runs in 5 2/3 against the vaunted offenses of San Diego and St. Louis late in the season during your rookie year I begin to wonder.  When it takes skipping your next start and having to take a couple more days of rest before you can right the ship, then I'm just about convinced that fatigue is a big part of the problem.

He may have thrown 162 innings last year, but throwing in the minors doesn't provide nearly as much stress on the arm as throwing in the majors does.

I'd be intrigued to look up his number last year to see if there was any downward, but I have no idea where I would find those numbers.

by dahlian on Sep 19, 2007 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

There's a BIG difference.
"What's the difference between eight scoreless innings and nine scoreless inning when it comes to boosting morale?"

It's a BIG difference psychologically/mentally. In fact, it's a whole stat by itself: the complete game. In fact, one of the knocks against Jake Peavy this year is the fact that he hasn't had any complete games all year.

Micah's never pitched a complete game shutout before, at any level. You don't think that MEANS something to him, that he was able to do it tonight?

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's not a big difference,
unless of course Owings is just out there to work on his own personal numbers.

He's not stupid.  If he gets pulled after this, he knows that it's only because he had a big lead.  He knows that he easily could have down it himself, but that it wasn't necessary.  A stupid "CG" on a stat sheet doesn't change any of that.

If that's seriously what Owings thinks, then I think it's time to dispel him of such childish notions.  

by dahlian on Sep 19, 2007 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Stupid or not,
I'm pretty sure there are a LOT of pitchers who care about that, as do a LOT of people around baseball.

Would you pull him in the 8th if he were pitching a no-hitter? Either 1. you're heartless and you'll say yes, or 2. you'll say no, but it's different. Why is it different?

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

There are a lot of pitchers
who care about getting saves, but that doesn't mean it isn't a crock of shit stat.

by dahlian on Sep 19, 2007 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

No argument there.
But it doesn't mean pitchers don't care about it.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ask, and ye shall receive
Here's Owings 2006 pitching splits, which will give you a look at them on a monthly basis, though bizarrely, it doesn't seem to include ERA? Go figure. However, you should note that he got promoted from Double-A to Triple-A mid-season, so was facing a higher level of opposition.

Normally, I'd agree with you that there wouldn't be much difference between eight scoreless innings and nine - except, this was Micah's first ever complete-game shutout, at any level. That's quite a big deal for any pitcher: Brandon Webb only did it once in his first 105 starts, up until May last year.

I also note that Owings' first complete-game, earlier on the year, came directly on the heels of perhaps his worst performance, a 2.2 innings, seven earned run outing, against the "vaunted offense" of, er, Pittsburgh. :-) And that horror came a) back in May, and b) after his turn in the rotation had been skipped, so fatigue was not an issue there.

by Jim McLennan on Sep 19, 2007 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm...
Thanks for the stats, Jim. I think we should sponsor Micah for $5.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can't help but think of
the idea of added confidence in the same way that I think of closers who can't don't pitch as well in non-save situations.

In both cases it's like they need this shiny stat to be dangled out in front of them to give meaning to their performance.

Oh well, at least Byrnes' former team agrees with my opinion.  Had Buccholz gone a few more pitches they during his no-hitter they would have pulled him.  Now that would have been something.

Although, I should note - in that instance I would have been in favor of leaving him in.  But a complete game shutout, it's nice, but come on.  Owings is still one shutout behind Jeff Weaver on the season.

by dahlian on Sep 19, 2007 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hopefully...
Down the line some day, complete game shutouts will be so commonplace for Micah, that they won't be of any significance. But this was the first time, so it will be a great deal more impactful on him than on Jeff Weaver.

I don't think CG is anywhere near as much a BS stat as saves: indeed, in these days of specialized relievers, it's become more impressive. Basically, it's saying, that in the ninth inning, you were the best option for your team, and that's no small fear.

by Jim McLennan on Sep 19, 2007 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

It says that,
except when it doesn't say that.  

It's impressive, but that alone doesn't mean that it's a net benefit.  If anything it just shows one of the failings of statistics.  Had Owings been pulled I don't think that would have diminished his start and its significance in any way.  The only thing that would change is that it wouldn't have this nifty new statistic next to it that separates it from an eight inning shut out start.

It's just a vanity statistic and it's only superficially impressive.  It means this one game that Owings had the stuff to go nine innings, but that says very little about his capabilities as a pitcher.  Weaver and Owings both have more shut outs than Peavy, but Peavy still throws more innings per start than them both.  A shutout doesn't change that.  It's more impressive to do it over many starts, for many innings.  

Being able to go out there and throw a mop up inning with a five run lead isn't a great feat in and of itself, but in this case it's being treated as if it makes all the difference in the world between success and failure.

by dahlian on Sep 19, 2007 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ok Mr. Almanac...
..I knew you would provide us with convincing stats.  I totally agree with you although I am ignorant of the stats.  I think when a pitcher is doing well, is low in the pitch count, and wants to pitch the final inning.  I'd would say it is better to err on the side that shows supporting that player.  Micah is not an egotistical player.  I think he accepts his manager's decision without much fuss.  Since there is a 5 run lead, if he gets into trouble then you always have the bullpen but I think you get so much more out of your players when they feel you believe in them.  (Ok I know a run-on.)  

Regarding the fatigue vs. minimal pitch repertoire argument, I have no idea which he has been struggling with.  I guess only he and BoMel know but both you and Skins, and cj make good arguments.  At first, I thought it might be fatigue but then it could be his limited pitches.  Maybe it is just being a rookie and learning how to outsmart the opponent?  I'm sure the MLB is far different than AA or AAA and he was playing college ball only 27 months ago.  I cringe when he has a bad night but I always chalk that up to experience.  I always say that if you have never failed at anything than you have never really succeeded either.  Hopefully, his bad outings will be the fertilizer, if you will, for future great ones.  I still believe he has quite a future.

by batster on Sep 19, 2007 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not me
I admit I was hoping for 5 innings and thought we'd see at least 3 pitching out of the bullpen.  Oh ye (me) of little faith.

by TwinnerA on Sep 18, 2007 11:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Wasn't it just yesterday...
...that one of you stated that "This team sucks right now"?
Oh , you were correctly referring to us...

C'mon by , Skins , we're drunk.
And it sure ain't with power.

Barry Zito...not an embarrassment of riches , but a rich embarrassment.

by victor frankenstein on Sep 18, 2007 11:51 PM EDT reply actions  

I guess I should have come by earlier.
By the time I got there, you were all out of beer. :-(
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

D-Backs on Today Show tomorrow
So CoJack, Byrnsie, CY and Baxter are on the Today Show tomorrow in a segment on an Arizona couple getting married on the show.  I wonder if they volunteered (I am sure Byrnes did!) or were chosen by the couple.

by TwinnerA on Sep 18, 2007 11:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Ok, this seems to prove my theory
I'm here two nights where we lose, and I'm off on nights when we win.  Tonight, I fall a sleep and I'm showing up in the 9th, and we're in the middle of a shutout.

If the Giants win tonight, I'm never coming back.  ;-)

Don't blink; blink and you're dead. Don't turn your back, don't look away, and don't blink. Good luck!

by Stile4aly on Sep 18, 2007 11:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Hmm
Salazar out there in RF makes me feel better late in games.

by TwinnerA on Sep 18, 2007 11:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Go Micah!
Micah's the top performer on ESPN's MLB scoreboard!!!

by TwinnerA on Sep 18, 2007 11:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Cross fingers time
X  X
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 18, 2007 11:57 PM EDT reply actions  

K
Good job, kid.  Glad I woke up in time to see it.
Don't blink; blink and you're dead. Don't turn your back, don't look away, and don't blink. Good luck!

by Stile4aly on Sep 18, 2007 11:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Owings!
Complete game shut-out!

Was that what this team needs or what?

I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 18, 2007 11:58 PM EDT reply actions  

GO MICAH!!!!!!
Woohoooooo!!!

Last 13 in a row

2 hits, 1 walk. One over the minimum.

His FIRST shutout at any level!

by snakecharmer on Sep 18, 2007 11:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Pwnings!
What a guy!
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 18, 2007 11:59 PM EDT reply actions  

lulz
If I was more awake, I would have thought of that.
Don't blink; blink and you're dead. Don't turn your back, don't look away, and don't blink. Good luck!

by Stile4aly on Sep 19, 2007 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ouch
I just checked the box score for the Phillies-Cardinals game. Both starters were out by the 4th (for some reason) and they're in the 11th now. Those bullpens are going to be a little worn out tomorrow, I'd think...
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 19, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions  

Very, very good
Now, we just need the Pirates and Cardinals to help a little. :-) But I feel a great deal better than after the game yesterday.

by Jim McLennan on Sep 19, 2007 12:01 AM EDT reply actions  

Guys, guys.....
I think the story here should be that Mr. Pwnings only has 33 innings to go to tie the franchise scoreless innings streak. ;-)
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 12:03 AM EDT reply actions  

Lols!
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 19, 2007 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Upcoming games
So I was just checking and see that this Sat's game, the Thursday day (9:30 a.m. in the morning here) game and the Sat. game in Colorado aren't televised.  Yuck!!!

by TwinnerA on Sep 19, 2007 12:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Saturday's is
"FSN Arizona will televise Saturday's 6:40 p.m. game against Los Angeles. The game previously had been scheduled only for radio. The network opted to replace the Texas/ Rice football game, and will pick up the UCLA/Washington game in progress after the D-Backs game."
~ Tribune

by snakecharmer on Sep 19, 2007 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

And yes...
I realize you're not in Arizona. :) But since the game's now carried by FSAZ maybe you can see it.

by snakecharmer on Sep 19, 2007 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

What a damned shame.
Oh, they're not going to broadcast Texas-Rice? I was looking forward to that game, too! Almost as much as USC's game against Compton Community College...
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is it just me...
...or does Micah come through with an amazing performance everytime there's talk of moving him out of the rotation, or moving him to the #5 spot?

He's done that a few times this year.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 12:16 AM EDT reply actions  

Can't say I've noticed it
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 19, 2007 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

dang
2 hitter by ownings. much needed win.
"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Sep 19, 2007 12:26 AM EDT reply actions  

So, to get to October baseball
I have to live on pasta and drink malt whisky?
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 19, 2007 12:30 AM EDT reply actions  

If that's what it takes...
..it is your solemn duty.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 19, 2007 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

delicious
red sauce with pasta for the main course.
"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Sep 19, 2007 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, hey...
...if that's the cross we have to carry, I will carry it as well. ::Suddenly feels very Jebus-like::
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Only 7 posts to go
to reach 300 but I'm off to bed.
And if I'm off tomorrow it's because I've promised to go out and drink a lot of beer with a friend coming up to Manchester.
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 19, 2007 12:42 AM EDT reply actions  

Well, ya got yer wish.
This is 302.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Man
Melvin left Owings in too long tonight.  That idiot.
Stay grindy, my friends.

by soco on Sep 19, 2007 12:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Eh
101 pitches, on 10 days rest.  If he can't handle that, he shouldn't be a starter.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 19, 2007 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Err....
I have a feeling he was trying to express this over the internet. (And I have a feeling it might have been directed towards dahlian)
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right
That's why I'm in favor of mandatory use of the sarcasm mark...
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 19, 2007 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

The wink?
I've never liked that; always felt a bit too promiscuous and familiar to me.
Stay grindy, my friends.

by soco on Sep 19, 2007 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nope
An actual sarcasm mark: (!)

One of my friends came across it somewhere- it's listed on the Wikipedia article, they claim it's of UK origin.

I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 19, 2007 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Aparently that's
how it's done in close captioning (with an exclamation point or question mark in parentheses).  
Stay grindy, my friends.

by soco on Sep 19, 2007 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

No,we are permanently sarcastic or ironic ...
...in the UK so it would be redundant.
We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Sep 19, 2007 7:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Effect of the fine British weather, perhaps?
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wait a minute...
Oh yes...the weather, well it IS glorious here

Im always a fan of the caps to signifiy saracasm ;)

by Wimb on Sep 19, 2007 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cards and Phillies
Going to 14.  The Saint Louis announcers sound like they're ready to be asleep.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 19, 2007 12:50 AM EDT reply actions  

But San Diego wins
So we don't get any extra room on the Padres.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 19, 2007 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Less concerned there...
If the Phillies lose, they'd be 3.5 back, with 11 games to play. Not easy at all for them to come back from that.

by Jim McLennan on Sep 19, 2007 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

True
The Phillies might even have a better shot at the NL East title than the Wild Card spot, if the Mets keep it up.  But better safe than sorry.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 19, 2007 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Uh-oh
Phillies get three in the top of the 14th, gonna be hard for St. Louis to make the comeback...
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 19, 2007 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dammit
Yeah, looks like tonight is a wash. Though even that works in our favor, since we cross a game off the schedule. The Mets must be brickin' it now, having seen a 6.5 game lead shrink to 1.5 in five days. Panic in the streets of New York...

by Jim McLennan on Sep 19, 2007 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Half of New York
with the Yankees charging.
Stay grindy, my friends.

by soco on Sep 19, 2007 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not too bad
We've got the lead, so a wash means it's more pressure on the rest of them to catch up.

Apparently, they set a National League record in that game, using 56 players...

I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 19, 2007 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wow
Last time the Phillies were closer than 1.5 games out?  At the end of the first day of the season, when they lost and were 1 game back.  If the Mets botch this, it'd be a fairly epic comeback.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 19, 2007 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Haha!! I certainly hope they DO botch it...
...as I despise the Mets.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Aw, geez
This was s'posed to go here.
I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Sep 19, 2007 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Two game notes.
  1. The announced attendance was 44,220. On a tuesday night, no less. Nice!!
  2. By going 1-2, Alberto Callaspo brought his average up from .207 to .212; likewise, with the complete game shutout, Pwnings dropped his ERA from 4.78 to 4.49.
Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 2:01 AM EDT reply actions  

Also
With our 85th win, we're now guaranteed our best record since '02. (We had 84 wins in '03)

Not to mention, as has already been pointed out, since the Mets lost, (for the 5th game in a row) we're back to having the best record in the NL.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Sep 19, 2007 4:07 AM EDT reply actions  

A great result
All in all we couldn't have asked for alot more

I saw through the 3rd inning but from what I've read since, outside of some baserunning errors we were pretty solid.

Its been said time and time again but the resilliance of this side is quite amazing. To come out of the blocks with 4 runs and for Micah to glide through those early innings were a great testiment to the side.

I'm not sure if we'll make the place that shall not be named. But hell it'll be 'interesting' to find out :D

by Wimb on Sep 19, 2007 9:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the AZ SnakePit, the SB Nation blog about the Arizona Diamondbacks. "When you think about the past all the time, when you get to the present day you are thinking about the past so it becomes your future again." -- Kirk Gibson.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Hl_small
New Primary Logo in 2012
Small
Free D-backs autograph session this Friday
Tmottbg_small
Exclusive Behind the Scene Tour of CHASE
Tmottbg_small
March 10 Spring Training Opportunity
Syd-barrett_small
Diamondbacks Claim Craig Tatum Off Waivers; 40 man roster full
Shoewizard-baby-72x72_small
Whats the deal with Josh Collmenter ?
Ryro_hangten_small
A Sad Day In The World Of Scrappy-ness: David Eckstein Retires
Ryro_hangten_small
Former Diamondback Craig Counsell Retires
Small
DBacks Fantasy Camp Autographs
Small
Salary Cap Dynasty League Openings

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Manager

Lucha_small Jim McLennan

Bench coaches

Madmen_icon_small snakecharmer

My-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-brony-not-the-element-of-efficiency_small kishi

Scarlett_small soco

Us1jack_small DbacksSkins

Players

Wailord_by_xous54_small Wailord

Hl_small Marc Fournier

Golden_dome_small Dan Strittmatter

Avogadro_small Zavada's Moustache

Small blue bulldog