Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Jeremy Lin And How The Pac-12 Missed Him

The future of baseball...

This was inspired by biggerunit1's belief that MLB will be gone in 30 years. I've rescued his comments in an earlier post, and moved them to this diary as a kicking-off point for a discussion about where baseball is, and where it'll go in future. Is the game in decline? If so how would you correct it? Or does the increase in attendance over the past few years indicate the game is generally healthy? No-one would claim its perfect, of course, but do you think it's in trouble, and if so, how serious? What would you do if you were commissioner? Here's biggerunit1's post:

People are watching less and less b/c ignorant people have been passing around the idea that "baseball is boring." So then one gullible drone picks that up and starts passing it around to the others. Soon a large number of people consider baseball boring simply b/c others told them to think that way.

The Yankee/financial situation can only get worse b/c of how stubborn players are. To initial a salary cap, I'm pretty sure the players union would have to agree, which they simply won't because god knows what they would do if Gil Meche doesn't get his lottery winnings for being worse than league average. The result here? A LONG strike. You saw what happened when the NHL went on strike for a year. They've lost MANY fans. You saw what happened when baseball went on strike in 1994. They lost MANY fans. Who knows where MLB would be now if it weren't for roid-boys Sosa and McGwire restoring interest in the game with their cheating? So could you possibly imagine what would happen with a 1 yr+ strike?

Furthermore, people are sick of steroids and MLB continues to do nothing other than add more slaps to the wrist rather than a kick to the skull. Could you imagine if in each city the star player was revealed taking steroids? How many people and kids would be crushed knowing their idol was cheating? MLB wouldn't want to lose that many people, so they, at least on their own, will not make every player test. MLB probably has some bribes in place keeping Congress from really kicking Major League ass.

People are/will get sick of the cheating, unfairness, and player selfishness. This is why other sports are becoming more attractive entertainment options.

I'll maybe get some chance to work on my thoughts regarding these questions tomorrow morning...at least until the tap on the shoulder arrives! :-)

Comment 15 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I figured it out
This is John Gambadoro.  There's no other person who can hate baseball and the Diamondbacks this much and not just go away.

The problem with your theories is that you are ignoring all of the positives of the game.  The largest would be history.  No other major sport comes close to the rich, longstanding history that baseball has in this country.  

Are there problems that the sport has to address?  Absolutely.  Money being the first and foremost of them all.  The players and the owners will absolutely have to come together and figure something out.  I'm not sure if we'll ever see a hard salary cap in baseball.  It makes too much sense.  I'm sure it'll be some sort of extended arbitration system that makes sense to about 3 people in the world.  The other possibilty could be a rule of diminished returns.  You have to hit certain levels or your contract can be voided.

Do I expect to ever see another MLB strike?  No.  Could we eventually see a lock-out?  Yeah.  I know that the media won't be with me on this one, but I think many, many fans would be 100% behind this one too.  The players are out of control and a lock-out may be the last chip the owners have to correct some of the issues in the system.  It's absolutely a slippery slope, but I can't discount it completely.

In the end, I don't follow how you feel that an organized sport will fail in a country where independent leagues pop up and function/flourish all over the country.  This leads me to reassert that most of the criticism of the game today comes from the media and not the fans.  That doesn't mean I think all fans are happy.  Nor do I think that if the MLB as it is today goes away baseball would be dead forever.  No, a new league would be up and operating in about 24 hours.

And did the NHL really have that many fans to start with?  Coyotes crowds look about the same size to me before and after the strike.

by nihil67 on Mar 12, 2007 11:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Agree somewhat, but...
As Jim noted, attendance is up, and I hazard to guess that part of the reason they've lost fans is because the televised games are now buried on an awful network. All most hockey fans get now is a weekly game on NBC and 3 or 4 minutes of highlights on SportsCenter, unless they have good local coverage.
In my nightmares, I see Brian Bruney...make it stop...

by Azreous on Mar 12, 2007 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm...
A rule of diminished returns...isn't that how/.why the whole steroids/HGH mess began , because certain players felt inadequate?

THIS could get interesting!

Zito! Awwwwwright! Now we're back to....oh no.

by victor frankenstein on Mar 15, 2007 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Quick note on the NHL
[ A LONG strike. You saw what happened when the NHL went on strike for a year. They've lost MANY fans. ]

If so, they didn't stop coming to the games, per this report on the 2005-06 season:

Twenty-five of the 30 teams had an increase in attendance, led by the Penguins, who drew 33.07 percent more fans to Mellon Arena than in '03-04... Only one team -- the last-place St. Louis Blues, whose attendance was down 23.42 percent -- saw a decrease of more than 6 percent. As a whole, the league played to 91.7 percent capacity crowds and set records in total attendance (20,854,169) and average game attendance (16,955). Crowds were up 2.4 percent over '03-04 and 1.2 percent over the previous NHL record (in '01-02).

by Jim McLennan on Mar 12, 2007 11:22 AM EDT reply actions  

But
that doesn't really tell the whole story. I think the biggest indicator of the NHL's downfall is in TV ratings and the lack of exposure since the work stoppage. Wasn't the All-Star game shown on OLN or something???

Doesn't help that the only time the NHL makes the news and/or Sportscenter is when some punk smacks another guy in the throat with his stick.

by AZSEAfan @ AZ Snakepit on Mar 12, 2007 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chicken and egg, perhaps?
Which came first, the lack of exposure or the lack of ratings? It was never exactly a televisual juggernaut, even before the strike. I seem to recall, in contrast, that TV ratings for Diamondback games have remained strong, even as attendance at the park has faltered. Can't find a link to verify that, however.

by Jim McLennan on Mar 12, 2007 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Deep breath...

I don't think you can label modern major-league baseball a failure. There are some things that MLB does well, and others that they do not so well. For instance, I think they are a long way ahead in using the Internet: I'm not aware of anything like mlb.tv which is available in the other sports. As high-speed Internet connections become the standard method of delivering all entertainment to residences, this will give them a big advantage over the other alternatives.

On the other hand, they've botched the whole steroids thing dreadfully, and this has led to the general public being very cynical about almost anyone who hits a homerun. [So far, however, this doesn't appears to have spread to other areas, such as pitchers] The blame for this, incidentally, lies about equally with the union and Bud Selig as far as I can see: the former for dragging their feet, the latter for not pushing them nearly hard enough. I don't quite reckon the fix is in, with regard to Congress, but I think MLB would be very happy if Sosa, Bonds, etc. were to retire before anything really incriminating came out, so they can tout the next generation of "clean" stars instead such as Pujols.

Though 'clean' is probably relative: given a performance-enhancing drug such as HGH was available, which you knew they weren't even testing for, wouldn't you be tempted to take it? If I was the commissioner, I'd be saying, "Ok, we can't test now, but we're going to take samples and preserve them until there is a test. If those come out positive then, we'll punish you accordingly, even if you're no longer juiced." That would be, at least, more pro-active then throwing hands in the air and letting whoever wants to, use the stuff.

It's always going to be a difficult tightrope to walk; how do we attract a new generation of fans - an essential task, I think we all agree - without compromising the basic nature of it? I saw one interesting approach the other day: a math textbook which used fantasy baseball as a means of teaching arithmetic. [I'm hopefully going to interview the writer later this week] That seems a great means of getting young people interested in the game, without resorting to the flashy MTV techniques which annoy the hell out of those of us with an attention span greater than a goldfish.

I think getting baseball back into the urban areas is another essential task. There are some good programs working on this already, but part of the problem is that a baseball game requires much more equipment than a basketball one, say. Though nowhere near as much as a football game, and that still seems to carry a lot of popularity in the inner cities. [Go through the grim streets of Oakland, and compare how many Raiders shirts you'll see to A's ones, for instance]

[ People are/will get sick of the cheating, unfairness, and player selfishness. This is why other sports are becoming more attractive entertainment options. ]

I definitely would argue that baseball is far from being alone in dealing with any of these issues. Everywhere in life, the higher the stakes, the greater the temptation to bend the rules in order to get the rewards. I don't regard the NBA, NHL, NFL or NASCAR as paragons of virtue or, indeed, significantly better than baseball in the areas you mention. Indeed, I don't really think any of them are particularly new either, just more likely to be publicized, due to the high focus players are now under. Back in "the good old days," Ty Cobb could climb into the stands, assault a crippled spectator and, basically, get away with it. Now, such an incident would be posted on YouTube within five minutes, and his career would be over.

As shoewizard mentioned, the current approach of MLB seems to be to encourage a core audience who are devoted to baseball, rather than a broader-based, but more casual interest. This makes sense, in that the hardcore fans will come to games, buy jerseys, and so on. Actually, you can see a similar strategy - and one that works very nicely - in the WWE. 95% of the population couldn't care less about it; but the 5% who care are fanatical, and those are the ones who guide the business. As the competition for leisure dollars increases, you'll probably see more catering to the hardcore fans. And as one of them, I don't mind too much!

by Jim McLennan on Mar 12, 2007 10:50 PM EDT reply actions  

The QuesTec monitor shouts...
..."Play-station Ball"! and the 2037 baseball season is underway! MLB is more profitable than ever, thanks to its economically sound formula of catering to a fanatical core audience.

Stadiums are generally smaller, which is a boon to the taxpayers who finance them. In Phoenix, thank goodness, the ballpark is much smaller. Actually, there's three seats. One for an aging shoewizard, another for the CEO of McPhoenBank, a valley call center conglomerate.

Each seat costs $25 million dollars, a bargain considering the stadium's third seat, the empty one in the row just in front of them, goes for $35 million. And, as Shoe The White likes to point out, the $25M includes a complimentary subscription to Diamondbacks magazine.

Stadium costs are held in check, despite the pair's penchant for discarding peanut shells  beneath their chairs and the fact that a team must inevitably play there.  

The team is the Arizona Chameleons, who to this very day, proudly don different jersey colors after each loss, upholding two franchise traditions simultaneously. Today's color is carmel macchiato.

Oh, and Derrick Hall is very excited about it.  

by Diamondhacks on Mar 13, 2007 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm just going to copy and paste...
...as I felt I had made some good points that were buried.

Professional baseball will be 168 years old, if we accept that the Reds were the first in 1869.  That's a pretty long time, and "glory years" where in a time largely without competition for the sports dollar and attention.  Now we have NBA, NFL, NHL, MLS, WNBA, Lacrosse leagues, NASCAR, IHL, and et cetera to compete for the attention of people, as well as many other entertainment options such as movies, concerts, amusement parks, television.

Let's face it, there always is a possibility that MLB could decline very sharply simply because there is so much else to do, and I don't think I would be shocked.

On the other hand, this link shows something interesting:

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/2000-03attendance.htm

Attendance slid to 2003, and has been on the rise ever since.  I also read an article that this year there is anticipation of even more people as the season tickets overall are up.  So even though I do agree with biggerunit1 and feel that the decline is likely in the face of all the competition (plus the usual complaints of too boring, too long, too expensive for good seats per games able to watch, the rich get richer [Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs] and the poor get poorer [seemingly everyone else]), right now the evidence by attendance alone seems to indicate otherwise.  

It will be interesting see how this plays out within the next decade.

biggerunit1 then asked what I thought about the steroids problem, and I said:

That's a funny subject.  There is a revelation that there are baseball players use performance enhancing drugs and everyone freaks out.  Largely B-Level talent (with the exception of a few) get caught and the hysteria goes higher.  Yet football is allowed to largely get away with because they seemingly had a better policy.  No one seemingly blinked an eye when Shawn Merriman was suspended for steroids, instead going to the Pro Bowl.

Baseball strikes in 94 and there is seemingly near riots, and people still talk about it, yet how often do people talk about the NFL strike in 87?  Only when they're mentioning that cheezy Keanu Reeves movie?

I don't really have an answer why there is a such a difference in attitudes between the two sports, even when they share some fans.  Perhaps it is because baseball has more of the illusion that is built on tradition and trust, and to have that yanked away is like seeing Mickey Mouse take off his head at Disneyland.  You know everything isn't what it seems but maybe people would rather live a lie that baseball harkens back to the "good ole days."

Perhaps baseball fans, though fewer than football fans, are more passionate about keeping the traditions and honor alive than football fans?  Perhaps because seemingly most of the major sports writers are baseball writers or have a baseball past, and so they feel the need to protect it more?  Perhaps its because people still look at baseball as America's pastime, America's sport, even if it isn't the most popular anymore.

Or perhaps it is none of these, it's sad news either way.

by soco on Mar 13, 2007 10:30 AM EDT reply actions  

To summarize from above:
I can understand why people would feel that perhaps ill will is looming for baseball.  It is a league that has been around for a long time in largely the same hands, that was at its most popular during times of no or little competition, and people have an odd perception of baseball that they do not apply to other sports, no matter how apt they may be.  

Jim mentioned that baseball must still be a viable interest as the attendance continues to go up, especially in the largest markets, but on the other hand Jim mentions that NHL had a strike and attendance went up, yet I think it would be hard for one to make a claim that the NHL is very healthy right now.

I'm not comparing the MLB and NHL, just showing that a rise in attendance doesn't necessarily indicate that there is a rise in interest.  

After all that, though, I do believe that there will always be professional baseball as long as people like the game.  I do believe there will come a point that people will stop playing this sport and develop another, but that time may be far off in the future, long after we're all pushing up the tulips.

by soco on Mar 13, 2007 10:36 AM EDT reply actions  

Baseball is "special"
I'm not sure why, but it does seem to have a specific place in American life - even legally, as with the anti-trust exemption - that's denied to other sports. I think it has weathered far worse issues in the past: I think the gambling issues which culminated in the Black Sox scandal were probably even a greater threat to the legitimacy of the sport than steroids.

That's both a strength and a weakness, in that its participants are held to a higher standard, perhaps, than those in other sports. But it also means its position is probably more secure in the national psyche. Baseball, Mom and apple-pie. I think there is a likely narrowing of focus, in much the same way that we'll never again see national TV spectacles in the sense of, say, the Apollo Moon landings, who shot JR, or the final episode of MASH. There are just too many channels, and so it is with leisure pursuits.

Another possible factor comes to mind. Previously, you had to root for the local team, because they were the only ones you could follow in more than the box-scores. Now, with Direct TV and the Internet, you can be a fan of a team, regardless of where you are: as our map shows! Which isn't a bad thing, as such, but it may dilute the intensity of the average fan in the home market, since loyalties are now as easily transportable as pot-plants.

by Jim McLennan on Mar 15, 2007 11:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Amen , blalah.
 I left my heart...in 1973.
Michigan , Alaska , Saudi Arabia , Greece , New York , here.
And everywhere I went I was a fan of...oh , let's just not go there. I just washed this shirt.
Zito! Awwwwwright! Now we're back to....oh no.

by victor frankenstein on Mar 19, 2007 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Baseball Prospectus weighs in
With this article, which looks at Pittsburgh's position as a marketplace, but also provides figures for AZ. It seems we have a decent catchment area, but our personal income per head is dead-last in the majors.

by Jim McLennan on Mar 17, 2007 7:59 PM EDT reply actions  

cool stuff here...
Glad I didn't have to write that article!  That was a lot of work put into it... very surprising to see PHX dead last on the avg. income list, although the relatively lo housing market helps even that out a bit.

by johngordonma on Mar 17, 2007 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the AZ SnakePit, the SB Nation blog about the Arizona Diamondbacks. "When you think about the past all the time, when you get to the present day you are thinking about the past so it becomes your future again." -- Kirk Gibson.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Hl_small
New Primary Logo in 2012
Small
Free D-backs autograph session this Friday
Tmottbg_small
Exclusive Behind the Scene Tour of CHASE
Tmottbg_small
March 10 Spring Training Opportunity
Syd-barrett_small
Diamondbacks Claim Craig Tatum Off Waivers; 40 man roster full
Shoewizard-baby-72x72_small
Whats the deal with Josh Collmenter ?
Ryro_hangten_small
A Sad Day In The World Of Scrappy-ness: David Eckstein Retires
Ryro_hangten_small
Former Diamondback Craig Counsell Retires
Small
DBacks Fantasy Camp Autographs
Small
Salary Cap Dynasty League Openings

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Manager

Lucha_small Jim McLennan

Bench coaches

Madmen_icon_small snakecharmer

My-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-brony-not-the-element-of-efficiency_small kishi

Scarlett_small soco

Us1jack_small DbacksSkins

Players

Wailord_by_xous54_small Wailord

Hl_small Marc Fournier

Golden_dome_small Dan Strittmatter

Avogadro_small Zavada's Moustache

Small blue bulldog