Quentin traded?

by Jim McLennan on Dec 3, 2007 1:49 PM EST in News Comment 30 comments

Thanks to em3 for the heads-up on this, which deserves its own story, I think. MetsBlog.com is reporting that Carlos Quentin has been traded to the White Sox for first-baseman Chris Carter.

First thought: no, it's not that Chris Carter.

It's this one, though since it appears this one can rake but not field his position...the similarities may be more than the differences. This one is only 21, and was apparently recently ranked Chicago's best position prospect by Baseball Prospectus' Kevin Goldstein. Awaiting full confirmation of this deal, and am researching more details on Chris Carter v2.0.

[Update: here's the full confirmation]

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Hilarious

I just want to make sure I've got this straight.

We traded the original Chris Carter, who was hitting really well in AAA, to the Red Sox/Nationals for the RP Fruto. Then... we take a 1st round pick from a couple years ago and flip him, at the lowest possible point of value, for the same player we just traded away, but 3 levels lower?

I'll give Josh Byrnes one thing, he knows how to make me laugh.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 3, 2007 2:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

no

this is a new, different chris carter, isn't it? this guy is younger, i think.

by leemellon on Dec 3, 2007 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I know

But looking at everything I can find, it's the same player. The only difference being that this version is a right handed batter.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 3, 2007 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Found another difference

This version is also a strike-out machine. He does take walks, but his K rate in A ball was 23.9%. Carter 1.0's K rate in Tucson this year was 13.5%.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 3, 2007 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not the same...

Carter v2.0 is still only 20; at that age, Carter v1.0 was still not even playing rookie ball. To get some idea, we can compare 1.0's 2005 season, which he spent mostly at High-A, to 2.0's 2007, spent at A-ball. However, we should bear in mind that 2.0 was two years older.

Carter v1.0 .291 .383 .522 .905
Carter v2.0 .296 .370 .522 .892

On first sight, they look very similar, but Lancaster (where 1.0 played) is a hitter's paradise, while Kannapolis (2.0) was much more neutral. Looking at the three-year figures, Kannapolis had a park factor of 101-102 but suppressed home-runs heavily, while Lancaster was at 122 for hits, all the way up to 160 for HR. So, 1.0's season was extremely impressive, taking that into account. He does strike out a bit more, but at his age, I can't say I'm surprised.

by Jim McLennan on Dec 3, 2007 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He is younger

I guess my problem is that I don't trust single A guys to progress. We had 2 major league ready hitters and we come out of it with a questionable to OK AAA reliever and a hitter in A ball that can't field and has a way to go to even sniff AAA.

I have consistently said that Byrnes appears to not be able to make up his mind, jumps too quickly, and devalues his own players. This seems like yet another instance of all 3. He dumped Carter 1.0 for no reason at a very strange point in the season. Now he has taken a deal very early in the trading season for a player that is fairly similar (yet may have more upside, I'll concede that). I have to believe that a healthy Quentin is worth more then this. What was it going to hurt to hang on to him? Exactly the same it would have hurt to hang on to Carter. Nothing.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 3, 2007 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Also

He did not create the X-Files.

I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Dec 3, 2007 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good digging!

My crackerjack source reveals Carter is quite the Christian.

Appropriating the Rockies thunder, Phase I?

by Diamondhacks on Dec 3, 2007 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As long as...

We don't get the one who was a member of Throbbing Gristle. Because he just can't hit the breaking ball. :-)

by Jim McLennan on Dec 3, 2007 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But can he do justice to Hamburger Lady?

You're a man after my own heart, Jim. A Throbbing Gristle reference on a baseball blog...

by azshadowwalker on Dec 4, 2007 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The only way I see this is if...

Another team wants Carter specifically and were going to package him with someone for a starter. Otherwise, I really dont know. Outside of Byrnesie's contract, Josh Byrnes has done well, so Ill wait and see.

by pepperdinedevil on Dec 3, 2007 4:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Over on a White Sox board

they love it, but I keep seeing comments about how Quentin doesn't strike out a lot and I wonder if they saw they same guy we did. Sure, his minor league numbers a great, but 2007 was not his year. Maybe different scenery will help him out, and I hope he does well.

Stay grindy, my friends.

by soco on Dec 3, 2007 6:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Not Alone

I am glad to see I was not the only one who about had a heart attack when I read the headline. Glad it's a different Carter this time. Otherwise, Im with Pepperdinedevil. I'm generally very supportive of the trades we've seen the last couple of years. This one makes my stomach hurt just a little, but I'll take a wait and see approach.

by Counsellmember on Dec 3, 2007 9:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

ugh...

...this better be part of something bigger and better.

I'm one of the minority who thinks Quentin will turn it around and be a very nice contributor at the top level.

by johngordonma on Dec 3, 2007 9:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'd like to think

they see something in him or he is a part of the bigger picture.

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Dec 4, 2007 1:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

My first reaction was wtf?! but then again they must have a DAMN good reason for trading this early in the winter meetings. Even another year in AAA wouldn't have killed of CQ so they must have a damn good reason for dealing him.

Do they project how long this guy is away from the bigs? being in A ball id assume at least September 09/10?

by Wimb on Dec 4, 2007 8:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

3 years

The White Sox had slated him for High A in '08 and I don't know why the Diamondbacks wouldn't do the same. Assuming that he can progress each season, he'd be "MLB ready" for the '11 season and yeah, possibly ready for a '10 call-up.

Though, recent history tells us that if he rakes in Visilia, the club will move him up this year. If he continues to rake in AA into the '09 season, he may be the 2009 version of Mark Reynolds/Justin Upton. Likely depends on what he does to improve his defense as well.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 4, 2007 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Your time table looks correct

If he rakes, mid season 2009....if his progress is slow and steady, 2010.

The sad thing for Carlos Quentin is that his future with the D backs, AND his trade value, died the day they extended Eric Byrnes. Of course the shoulder injury and hitting .214 didn't help either...but one begat the other.

In the end, Josh Byrnes spoke with just about every team in the majors, and nobody was going to give up a pitcher of consequence for Q. And any thoughtful observer probably figured that out a while ago. And if they hadn't, Delmon Young for Garza certainly should have been the tipoff that corner outfielders are not going to bring in pitching.

There is no depth in the organization at first base, so I don't really have a problem with them getting a first baseman that has shown very good power, especially for his ballpark.

But it's still just a stunning turn of events, considering how high most of us were on Quentin heading into last season. It's a good lesson on what can happen to prospects along the road to major league "stardom".

by shoewizard on Dec 4, 2007 12:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Well said

I agree with everything said by Shoe here. We're all a little stunned mostly because we were told to be so high on Q. Good on Byrnes for recognizing that it wouldn't work out here for him, and good on Byrnes for filling an organizational need.

by tabe1978 on Dec 4, 2007 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not terribly sorry to see Q go...

but I'm not sure about what they got for him. I'll take a "wait-and-see" on this one. I have to say, though, that I was seeing no real future for Q here with the emergence of Upton. I was really frustrated with Q overall this year. Expectations coming into the year are one thing. Performance during it (injury or no) is a completely different animal. Q failed at the latter this year.

At least I won't have to watch that annoying batting stance/dance anymore. Damn, but I wanted to smack him & tell him to stand still!

by azshadowwalker on Dec 4, 2007 12:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

dancing

boy do I agree with you on that. How do you hit a moving object when you are moving all over the place too.

by kylerkenney on Dec 4, 2007 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Danny Haren Close???

Looks like AZ is close on Haren. This could be HUGE. Link below:

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/04/arizona-intensifies-haren-trade-talk/

by em3 on Dec 4, 2007 1:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Very interesting

But I definitely hope that including Owings isn't even being thought of on our side.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 4, 2007 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Giving up pitching to get pitching? Bad idea, IMO, even if Haren is the superior pitcher. Perhaps this is why the team went for the Q-for-Carter deal? Maybe they're going to sign a short-term 1B (Clark?) and wait for Carter to mature. If that's not what the plan is, I'm worried about letting CoJack go. If it is the plan, I'm still worried about letting CoJack go. I don't know who else the D'Backs could offer that wouldn't concern me, though.

by azshadowwalker on Dec 4, 2007 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It probably doesn't matter

Even if the offer is Jackson, Montero, ,Scherzer, and another of our higher pitching prospects, that probably could be easily matched by anyone else looking to acquire Haren.

That isn't to say that package couldn't bring in Blanton.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 4, 2007 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Please no

I really don't think they would trade Owings. I think he is too valuable to give up.

by TwinnerA on Dec 4, 2007 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

huge lift

Adding Haren would be a huge lift. He is basically Brandon Webb 2.0. 200+ IP guy, 27 years old, and his contract is very affordable and runs through 2009 with a 2010 club option. If we can get Haren for CarGon + Jackson and some lower level types, it would be a coup.

Throw in Owings and this deal is definitely harder to swallow... but it might still be a wise move.

by johngordonma on Dec 4, 2007 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs