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Normally, the Fan Forum at diamondbacks.com isn't the kind of place I spend much time. Certain posters there are just so irritatingly reactionary, in their "you can have my purple cap when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers" way, that reading the threads there is usually more depressing than informative, educational or even entertaining. I certainly hope the forum there is not an accurate pulse of the state of Diamondbacks fandom. However, there is the occasional pearl of thought-provocation to be found: witness this post from micmac99 [He used to comment here occasionally, then vanished, though I vaguely recall hearing he was going to start his own blog, which would certainly be welcome!]

In it, he runs out the interesting idea of fan ownership of the Arizona Diamondbacks, suggesting it could be done on lines somewhat parallel to the Green Bay Packers. It's a nice idea, but I genuinely don't think that democracy is the best way to run a baseball team. [Actually, I remain fairly unconvinced it's necessarily the best way to run a country, but my views on that depend on how long it's been since I saw an episode of Jerry Springer...] "What better, more logical, more common sense group exists to look out for the best interests of the fans, than the fans themselves?" says micmac99?

Well, fans tend to let their hearts rule their heads, and would make decisions based on what was best for the team, rather than what will be. For example, I've little doubt that a fan-run franchise would be playing Luis Gonzalez in left-field, likely past the point that he needed to be wheeled out there. People like familiar faces, and so "veteran presence" in general would be over-valued, even in the face of CBY alternatives [CBY = cheaper, better, younger. I think you should get used to that phrase in 2007!] Woe betide management forced to pander to that, in order to keep their jobs: they'd never have the strength to make necessary, but unpopular decisions.

I'm also not sure there would be sufficient interest to raise the funds. Micmac99 estimates, at an absolute minimum, the sale of shares would need to raise $325m. Reaching that would mean, as a scenario, selling 25,000 shares for $13,000 each. Given the team was only getting about 25,000 per game last year - and even that required a capacity crowd for "Farewell to Gonzo" weekend - this seems optimistic, to say the least. It would be a difficult sell, especially given the lukewarm fanbase locally, with many residents still clinging to the previous teams they supported (hopefully, that aspect will change in time, as people "grow up" alongside the Diamondbacks). But would even the most die-hard fans - raises hand - be prepared to shell out, at a minimum, several grand? My hand drops, staying firmly in my pocket.

In contrast, Green Bay has a long, storied history, having been a non-profit entity since 1923. The corporation also had no problem adding more than a hundred thousand new shareholders, the last time there was an issue in 1998. The structure there is also radically different from the one proposed by micmac99: while shares do get voting rights, they can only be sold back to the team, no dividends are paid, the stock cannot appreciate in value, and you don't even get any ticket privileges. [Speaking of which, the team has over 70,000 names on their season ticket waiting list - despite the city only having a population of 100,000.]

There would certainly seem more credible cities for such an attempt: Chicago, where the Cubbies fanbase is perhaps the most rabid in all baseball [certainly, when you take into account their success, or lack thereof, over the past 80 years]. There's an interesting section in micmac99's post, "Fan interest in the team can generate enthusiam that can carry the team to great levels. On the other hand, fan apathy can cause the team to lose - if the fans don't care, the players will tend not to care." I venture to suggest the Marlins and Cubs are strongly suggestive this is probably not the case over the past decade.

Another suggestion is, "the creation of a Diamondbacks stand-alone cable sports network (similar to the YES Network of the New York Yankees) focusing on the desert Southwest." I doubt this would work, for similar reasons to those described above; there isn't the degree of interest to make it viable. Boston, Chicago and maybe St. Louis would seem about the only three cities outside of New York where such an operation might work. We also don't have enough content, since there is a limit to how many interviews with Bob Melvin a paying audience will stand. [Though as an aside, the idea of an Arizona channel, combining the output of the Suns, D'backs, Coyotes and Cardinals... Hmmm, that might just work]

So, I think this probably falls into the category of a pipe dream, but I just enjoyed the concept being floated immensely, and it's good to see fans, who may or may not agree with recent decisions by the owners, coming up with constructive suggestions on how they think things should be run. It certainly beats the hell out of the "boycott" talk still being cranked out from certain quarters, which helps nobody at all in the long run, and simply comes over as spiteful childishness. Hey, you don't want to support the Diamondbacks, that's entirely up to yours; but please respect those of us who will continue to do so.

Finally, here's a cool thing, coming to Peoria soon. Noted Seattle blog, USS Mariner are having a spring training get-together at a game on March 3rd - and this one features Q&A sessions with both general managers involved in the game. Sadly, it's not a Mariners vs. D'backs game, so there'll be no Josh Byrnes, but as well as Seattle GM Josh Bavasi, Padres head honcho Kevin Towers will be there, so we can get an insight into one of our premier divisional rivals perhaps. Currently, I am aiming to attend, hopefully with Mrs. SnakePit, if her work schedule permits, so if anyone else is interested in going, see this link for full details.

Ah, someday, perhaps, we at AZ SnakePit will be a blog-behemoth like USS Mariner, and Arizona celebrities will be begging us for an invite to our get-togethers... But at the moment, I guess we're more patrol boat than battleship! :-)

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Agree with the post
I agree with everything you state in here. The idea of fan ownership is a pipe dream. It just can't happen and wouldn't be as beneficial as some people would like to think. This ownership group is heading in the right direction lead by JByrnes. As for the television networks you mention that the Red Sox would be one of the teams capable of doing this and they already have NESN is owned and operated by the ownership of the Red Sox. As for the Diamondbacks building a network I just can't see it happening. Major League Baseball itself has had difficulty launching their all baseball network and I don't see the fans, outside of some of us really crazy ones, wanting to watch stuff on the dbacks 24/7 365 a year. The idea of an all Arizona Sports network is a great one and the unfortunate thing is FSN had and has a chance to do it but can't seem to get out of their own way long enough to be able to do it the way the fans would want it and instead go for crappy quality and crappy program choices.

by espo on Jan 29, 2007 2:40 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That and $0.25 may buy you some gum
Fan ownership can, does, and could always work.  Ownership is people who, at least I'd like to think, are fans of baseball... if not the Diamondbacks directly.  I don't think fan "ownership" is what micmac99 is looking for.  He wants fan GMership.  That, indeed, is a pipe dream.  

I guarantee that not all of the current stakeholders in the team's current ownership group agree with every choice that's been made or with everything that comes out of Kendrick's mouth.  Corporations and limited-partnerships are like that, and you just have to deal with it if you want to remain part of the group.  Or you can try to rally support for your cause.  It's very much like government (see "Stupid").

I'd wager that if open bidding was placed for the team and ownership was to change hands, not much, if anything, would change.  That is unless we're to fire guys like Josh Byrnes and other executives.  Ownership has to give people in those positions power, and in doing so, you'd likely end up with the same player choices being made.

Would the uniform colors change back?  Maybe.  Does anyone really care?  I know I'm more offended by the high school looking logos on the jerseys then the actual colors.  On the other hand, the price of beer at Chase may come down out of the stratosphere if fans were at least allowed to choose the managing partner and the board of directors... :)

by nihil67 on Jan 29, 2007 8:54 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Democracy ain't what it's cracked up to be
Here's a small contribution towards turning the Snakepit into a Juggernaut forum.

I am in utter agreement with JMac on most every point.  Democracy is vastly overrated.  Look at the blogosphere- what we're told is the most "democratic" of media.  More speech produced by the blithering masses hasn't led to information being better disseminated or better received.  Hell, I can't name one blog worth my while!  Oh.....

In truth, I respect Micmac's take, and his creative approach to the disempowerment many fans feel in the current baseball climate.  I also approve of the thoroughness of Micmac's presentation, especially when the AZDiamondbacks forum page is usually belligerent in its intransigence.

That being said, fan ownership is not viable in Arizona.  All the reasons stated above are valid.  The numbers just don't cut it.

But how cool would it be to own a few shares of an MLB team?  If I could buy a few shares of a team for 500$, I'd be in like Flynn!  Even if it were stock in the DRays (actually, there's a little closet in my heart where I quietly root for the DRays to bring down the evil empires of NYY and BOS).

by tabe1978 on Jan 29, 2007 2:21 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Democracy at work
[ Look at the blogosphere- what we're told is the most "democratic" of media. More speech produced by the blithering masses hasn't led to information being better disseminated or better received. ]

The best thing about blogging is, anyone can start one. The worst thing is...anyone can start one. However, it is a level-playing field, more or less: good blogs will prosper, while the weak ones are read only by the author's friends. It has cut out the block, whereby you needed to own a TV station, radio channel or newspaper, in order to get your views to the world. That's a good thing, even if it requires the viewer to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

[ But how cool would it be to own a few shares of an MLB team? If I could buy a few shares of a team for 500$ ]

With you there. But you can...kinda, since there are a number of teams owned by publicly-traded companies such as Time-Warner (the Braves). So, you could buy shares in the company which owns the team. Appreciate it's not quite as exciting as "direct" ownership though. Seems there would be an opportunity here for one of the partners though. Sell a nominal fraction of their holding, produce nicely ornate share certificates of one share each, and they'd fly off the shelves in the Team Shop.

by Jim McLennan on Jan 30, 2007 1:51 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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