Prospect Campaign

by Mr. Philosophical on Jun 11, 2006 7:44 PM EDT

"I'm sinking to the water under ground..."
-- AFI

S. Drew: .312 BA, 9 HR, 34 RBI, .372 OBP
--
C. Counsell: .279 BA, 1 HR, 20 RBI, .330 OBP

S. Hairston: .320 BA, 15 HR, 46 RBI, .399 OBP
--
S. Green: .319 BA, 4 HR, 23 RBI, .376 OBP
L. Gonzo: .262 BA, 6 HR, 28 RBI, .349 OBP

Mentions: Chris Carter, Chris Young, Alberto Callaspo

Look we suck now. Our vets cannot handle this. I think we need to call up our prospects. Right now. I rather see our Prospects suck than our F***in Vets. Especially Gonzo. I mean, thanks for everything, but you really need to sit the bench. I mean, not even the losing streak that we began to suck, but season long as well. Come on rookie, we need more young guns up here. I'm tired of our team being the laughing stock of the league. We need to do something right now.

Tweet Comment 27 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

I would have to agree with you.

Bring these guys up. Let the starters ride the pine for a bit. Hey, it worked for the Suns. The Suns bench basically got us to the Western Conference Finals.

The Baby Backs can get us to the National League Divisional Series.

by micmac99 on Jun 11, 2006 9:18 PM EDT reply actions

We MUST win the division this year

to get momentum for a deeper run in 2007. The objective should be figuring out how to beat the Mets, Braves, Phillies, Astros, Reds and Cardinals and do it convincingly and spankingly. The last seven games have not shown me that this team is on the right track whatsoever.

by micmac99 on Jun 11, 2006 9:21 PM EDT reply actions

Why?

I'm not sure how winning the division would have any effect on next year or the year after. In fact, bringing up youngsters would most likely assure that we don't come close to winning the division.

Baseball is not about figuring out how to play up to the good teams, it's about learning how to be consistantly good against every opponent. It shouldn't matter who is in the other dugout. That means having more then one starter you can trust in. It also means having a manager that knows how to manage his team, hitters that can get on base, and have hitters that can be trusted to hit when those guys are on base. We don't have the first 3.. the last we have in 1 or 2 guys right now.

by nihil67 on Jun 11, 2006 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Forgot to mention

Consistant defense. Yeah, Hudson is awesome, but Jackson has been just as bad as feared and our veteran corner outfielders have been less then spectacular and show no hustle on most days.

by nihil67 on Jun 11, 2006 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions

But you are making our point

If the young players can get all of what you have just said done - why not give them a shot? People are still on the Gameday thread basically saying let's trade or send players down and bring up these Baby Backs and see how they do.

And consistent offense, defense AND managing is exactly what CAN:

win the NL West and build for next year
gain respect from the teams I mentioned
put more butts in the Chase Field seats which is what Kendrick and Moorad or whoever is running this franchise ultimately wants.

The best teams get built not only to be good overall but to match up against the top clubs in the sport. That is the whole philosophy used by my all-time favorite manager, Tony LaRussa.

BoMel is pretty good, but if LaRussa/Duncan ran the D-Backs we'd be 10 games up on the Dodgers by now.

by micmac99 on Jun 11, 2006 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions

woah there

[If the young players can get all of what you have just said done - why not give them a shot?]

I think we're arguing the same point, but going in different directions. Trust me, I'm all about getting the youngsters in here. Saying that we have to win the NL West to do well in the coming years, however, I can't get behind.

[The best teams get built not only to be good overall but to match up against the top clubs in the sport. That is the whole philosophy used by my all-time favorite manager, Tony LaRussa.]

I disagree completely. LaRussa manages to what he has, whatever it is he's given. The best teams are good because they are able to stay consistant, which means not going on 7 game losing streaks.

[BoMel is pretty good]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[but if LaRussa/Duncan ran the D-Backs we'd be 10 games up on the Dodgers by now.]

How? Does he somehow have a way to make our pitchers not suck and our hitters score runs?

by nihil67 on Jun 11, 2006 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Boy do we disagree on this!

"...Saying that we have to win the NL West to do well in the coming years, however, I can't get behind..."

But winning the NL West this year will show the team that yes we can win. It is a confidence builder. It shows the other clubs in the division - and OURSELVES - that we are a ballclub and a FRANCHISE that KNOWS how to win. NOT winning the NL West this year says to the Dodgers, the Padres and the Giants that "hey, Arizona is not the team to beat in our division."

The Diamondback franchise needs to shoot for nothing less than excellence and a major part of that excellence is WINNING THE DIVISION year in and year out. I keep reminding you guys I used to be an A's and a Braves fan. I KNOW what I am talking about - I have seen it with my own eyes and cheered it IN PERSON and blew out my voice on several occasions at the Coliseum AND Turner Field.

Or do you want to be the Cubs of the West?

"...LaRussa manages to what he has, whatever it is he's given. The best teams are good because they are able to stay consistant, which means not going on 7 game losing streaks..."

LaRussa manages what he has and MATCHES UP what he has so they can perform best against the other team. I will start following the Cards a lot more in the coming weeks and give better examples of this.

And a LaRussa team inconsistent???? From what I remember that just does not happen. LaRussa has a tried-and-true system in place that has gotten him several pennants in the NL and the AL.

"...How? Does he somehow have a way to make our pitchers not suck and our hitters score runs???"

See comments above and research the history of the A's and Cardinals under his leadership. I would bet that given the same personnel LaRussa would platoon guys differently, use the same guys in different situations...and we would have had ElDuque get that complete game in the Purple and White instead of DodgerBlue/GiantOrange as he did.

by micmac99 on Jun 12, 2006 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions

No

We don't need to prove anything as much as last year because last year we had to prove that we need to play with the Men, not the boys.

This year, our team wasn't made to win the world series, but to win some games to stay in contention. And that is what we are doing now. I am just saying that if that is our team philosophy now, why don't the prospects give it a try to get some experiences for next year. You know, get the bad blood out, add the new blood in.

"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Jun 12, 2006 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions

Then we need to change our team philosphy

because we will just be like the Cubs, good enough to be lovable but not good enough to win. I do NOT follow the Cubs or take them seriously.

by micmac99 on Jun 12, 2006 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions

Because why even have a team in PHX

if all we're gonna do is have opposing team's fans come in their colors and out-cheer us? If that's gonna happen let the D-backs move to Vegas or Portland and we just keep the Cactus League.

I mean come on, get real. The point of a Major League Baseball club is to get to the World Series. Or at least it should be. Not to be the whipping boys for the "good" teams - but to BE one of the good teams.

Right now the D-Back franchise is looking more and more like the Cubs and the Pirates which have been whipping-boy franchises.

Those teams get fans because of history and tradition.

Phoenix is a city where there is no tradition sports wise except for maybe ASU. Diamondbacks tradition must be built like the Yankees, the Cardinals, the A's, the Braves; they ALL built their traditions one pennant at a time, one championship at a time - and the fans stayed loyal and the stadiums stayed sold out.

I hope Ken Kendrick gets that.

by micmac99 on Jun 12, 2006 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions

The fact is...

there is no way this team will be a team to beat year in and year out. Very few teams in baseball are. There are a few teams with a lot of money. They will always be the ones with targets on their backs. The D'backs are not one of those teams. They are not St. Louis, the Yankees or Boston. Those teams can afford to be winners every year. As long as baseball is structured the way it is, you will have the big-spending teams and the other teams who occassionally go on great runs and win the WS. Arizona is in the latter group, along with 75+% of MLB.

As for the idea that the youngsters will help us win the NL, I can't get behind that at all. As great as CoJack has been at times, we've seen his defensive errors. He's learning. That's what rookies do. Getting the young guys up here is an official white flag. Most "experts" project these guys as major-league-ready no sooner than next year. There's a reason they feel that way. They watch these guys. They know the difference between the bigs and the minors. These guys may have great bats, but if you're giving up unearned runs due to the defensive errors of youngsters, all the runs in the world won't help.

by azshadowwalker on Jun 13, 2006 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Look

[If the young players can get all of what you have just said done - why not give them a shot?]

Look at first post and the one after.

[The best teams get built not only to be good overall but to match up against the top clubs in the sport. That is the whole philosophy used by my all-time favorite manager, Tony LaRussa.]

Team philosophy, for our team, needs to be balanced by baseball strategies. When to pinch hit, pinch run, double squeeze. And BoMel has a load of prospects ripping it up down inthe minors. Lets just call them up. I mean, they can't do worse than what we are doing now.

[BoMel is pretty good]

Bo(nehead) Melvin, is hard. He is average. Good at some things, bad at some. He needs to sit down, chat with someone who has manager experiences and learn when to do necessary things.

[but if LaRussa/Duncan ran the D-Backs we'd be 10 games up on the Dodgers by now.]

yes, and no. LaRussa gives confidence to his team, but Melvin can't do it because his emotions are shown unlike LaRussa. I mean, does LaRussa look pissed if his team loses? or when his team wins? You can't tell. The team is concern about their own asses so far. Instead of making the team happy. Look at the way they play. No confidence whatsoever.

And LaRussa would not have a fit about the pitchers because he would simply say "hit the showers, you still have to support the team." after the first inning.

"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Jun 12, 2006 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions

Good points

What you said is basically what I mean about Melvin. He lists Phil Garner as a major influence and played for Roger Craig. But LaRussa is my all time favorite. I also like Bobby Cox. Jim Leyland is another long-time favorite. All of these guys have either won or appeared in the World Series.

by micmac99 on Jun 12, 2006 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions

BoMel

He could be a great manager if he stops being so infaturated with his veterans and stop being lazy.

The team never really bunts, unless its a pitcher. And, our players aren't made for speed. The fastest on the team is Hudson, Counsell, Byrnes. So, we need to get faster players on base as well. Or just simply pinch run.

Defense is a key to winning too. Its the most overlooked things in baseball today. But now, we suck at defense. I say the D-Backs call up Drew for his bat and have him split time with Hudson and Counsell, because Hudson is not going to win a Gold Glove this year. He made stupid mistakes, which can be made if he plays a bit slower. I know his mentally could help the team in the locker room, but damn, it could kill us when we play. Counsell and Hudson was great together when groundball pitchers (Webb) are up, but they are terrible at bat. Seriously. We need to have either Hudson(I know its crazy) or Byrnes (power hitter, but damn, he can get on base) because we seriously need players on base.

Bo(nehead) Melvin can be a bonehead sometimes, because of the fact that he always use the same lineup everyday. I mean, yes he gives some players a break, but its at the wrong time and the bench players are usually playing in the position of the starter. If BoMel wants to start Gonzo, have him start at RF and Green at LF because many hitters just kill the ball to Left Field. And Gonzo, he doesn't have that amazing arm like he had in the past. Its crummy now, so have Green there. Its better for our team. Also, have Gonzo bat where Hudson is batting now. The 7 hole. He doesn't have the power anymore. And Hudson is swinging the sweet bat now.

Melvin knows when players need the rest, but not the right players. He rest Counsell, Jackson, and Byrnes. But not Tracy, Gonzo, and Green. Look, I'm happy he is giving breaks, but its at the wrong time and at the wrong place. I mean, Melvin is a stats guy and thats why he gives breaks too. But, he can't just aim at stats. He has to question the mentally of the players.

Thats all for tonight for my Team Analysis...

VIII

"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Jun 11, 2006 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Lots of Grammar mistakes

So sorry... just tired at midnight. I'm gonna go to bed now. I got a huge amount of work because of school. Too bad I can't chat for long.

"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Jun 12, 2006 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Agree and disagree

In no particular order.

Bunting is over-rated. There are almost no occasions where it is justified. If you have anything like a half-decent hitter up, you're better off with a man on first and no outs, than a man on second and one out. There are exceptions, depending on the circumstances, but they're few and far between.

Speed. I believe the phrase is "meh". :-) All the speed in the world won't help if we don't get on base. See Marland Williams for details. Decent speed will help stay out of double plays, and it can help un-nerve certain pitchers, but if you're going to steal bases, you'd better be very good to make it worthwhile, because getting caught or picked off is a total momentum-killer.

Oddly, as Counsell has waned, Hudson has waxed:
Mar/Apr - Counsell .324, Hudson .237
May - Counsell .296, Hudson .233
June - Counsell .200, Hudson .325
All told, they're about what I expected: a little less power from both, but otherwise, there or thereabouts.

"If BoMel wants to start Gonzo, have him start at RF." Worst. Idea. Ever. Hitters would be able to walk from first to third on any ball hit to right field; at least with Green there, we have a vague chance of stopping the more sluggish ones. You need a decent arm to play the position, the last thing Gonzo has. Do agree Gonzo is not a cleanup hitter any more, and BoMel does seem to have realised that over the Mets series. But at an OBP of .350, he's still getting on base more often than Counsell, Hudson, Estrada and Tracy.

by Jim McLennan on Jun 13, 2006 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions

carlos gonzalez

i have heard he has a cannon for an arm

Webb=Cy Young

by webby17 on Jun 13, 2006 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions

Well

The Diamondbacks have a problem of having players hitting over .300 as well. Last year, I think someone led with a .297 BA and the year before, was by Shea Hillenbrand somewhere around .310

Not only we need to get on base, because no matter what, it doesn't mean crap if we cant move those people on base in scoring position. I hate the fact that we have the bases loaded and then all of the sudden, my confidences kind of shifts because Shawn Green is at bat and he fails.

"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Jun 13, 2006 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions

I'll post Pitching later...

Man, that will be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fun. lol. I love the babybacks

"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Jun 11, 2006 11:46 PM EDT reply actions

BoMel needs to take a good hard look

at the position players, the bullpen and the rotation and not be scared to send guys down and shake the clubhouse up a bit and show this town he is serious about putting a contending club on the field.

The only reason we had 35,000 people last night was for Father's Day and a doll. Otherwise that crowd would have been 20,000 or less. Winning teams sell out. I should NOT have been able to walk up at 4:30 yesterday and get an aisle seat in section 301 on the day of the game. Our ace was pitching. It should have been a sellout.

by micmac99 on Jun 11, 2006 11:52 PM EDT reply actions

Father's Day

is June 18th.

by nihil67 on Jun 11, 2006 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions

So they're getting a head start!

Lots of dads and kids at the park last night, more than I have seen so far.

by micmac99 on Jun 12, 2006 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions

Pitching

Now, I understand Jim, that you say that the numbers and the stats of minor leaguers don't really translate as much to the big leagues. Well, just to improve our pitching we need to do the following.

Release Russ Ortiz (no brainer)
Move Vargas to Bullpen (Long relief, he has been giving up runs in the first inning so many times. Even though his stuff still needs polishing, I think its time to put him in the bullpen.)
Callup Ed-Gon (0-10 record with a huge ERA but I would take him now since he has been improving since 2004)
Callup Nippert (Had a lousy start his first start this year, but he will pick it up. Like like year, Nippert played like crap the first 2 games he started. And when he played his last start of 2005, he was dominate.)
Keep E-Gon (No brainer. Been pretty good, and the defense needs to pick it up for him because his sinker is getting better and better.)

Our Pitching Rotation Should be:
Webb
En-Gon
Ed-Gon
Nippert
Batista

Bullpen:
Vargas
Aquino
Lyon
Daigle
Vizcaino
Julio
Valverde

"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Jun 13, 2006 7:58 AM EDT reply actions

LaRussa/Duncan

While I agree with most posters that the D-Backs would be better off scraping the vets and playing the kids, I disagree with most of the posters who opine...."Boy, if we only had LaRussa/Duncan."

LaRussa has never shown a propensity to play rookies, and Duncan has burned through every young arm he has ever laid his hands on.

The only rookie LaRussa has ever played was Albert Pujols, and the only reason he played him was an injury to Bobby Bonilla. Had Bonilla not been injured during the spring 5-6 yrs ago, Pujols would probably still be laboring today at Memphis. LaRussa doesn't trust rookies and would be a horrible fit for this year's Snakes.

Don't believe me regarding Duncan...Name one young pitcher other than Dave Stewart that he has developed. Duncan is best when working with pitchers taken off the scrap-heap...ie Carpenter, Bottenfield, Suppan....

by highandtight on Jun 14, 2006 7:07 AM EDT reply actions

Holy Cow...

I understand your beef with LaRussa, but I can't believe you're complaining about Duncan. The guy is a genius and definitely one of the most underrated coaches in the game. He consistently patches together a good to very good rotation out of nothing more than retreads.

by johngordonma on Jun 15, 2006 6:36 AM EDT up reply actions

No Beef

Trust me, I have no beef with Duncan or LaRussa. I was responding to an earlier poster who admires those two. I was merely indicating that they (Duncan & LaRussa) would be a bad fit for the D-Backs.

Every organization is slightly different in their organizational philosophy...the Cardinal's philosophy seems to be to use the draft to get young college talent and then trade them to acquire seasoned veterans like Mulder, McGwire, Renteria et. al.. The list of young players they have drafted, developed, and include on their roster today is very, very, limited.

by highandtight on Jun 15, 2006 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions