State of the Diamondbacks Fans Nation

by Mister T in AZ on Dec 26, 2006 10:15 PM EST Comment 14 comments

I am back in town for the holidays this week (I moved to DC in August) and am shocked listening to local sports radio talk about our D-Backs.

Having been away, my main source of Diamondbacks news has been this blog, google news alerts, and diamondbacks.com. From these sources, I had not picked up on what I am gathering from the radio as INTENSE fan disatisfaction with management.

In the snakepit nation I feel there is near consensus on the direction of the club. Some of us want a little more action, we disagree some on who we should trade or go after, but all in all - we are excited about the future and support managements disciplined quest to rescue this battleship from that mysterious cliff.

Clearly we are a unique bunch. From my one week back, it seems that the uni changes, the departure of gonzo (who one radio station has on a promo trashing his recent team within days of signing with the blue),and the lack of big money aquisitions has our fan base pretty pissed.

So ... I am writing this diary to ask you two things:

What is your take on the state of our diamondbacks?
What do your friends, coworkers, and even those you come in contact with that are maybe paying a little less attention think about the team?

I have a poll below for YOUR opinion, but please post in the comments a little explanation for how you voted (if you vote). Also, since I can't do two polls per diary, be sure to use the comments to talk about how the general fan nation is viewing this team.

I am just very curious if the animosity I have been picking up on is real ... or just something talk radio is trying to cook up.

Poll

What grade would you give the current diamondbacks management team?

C

7 votes

D

4 votes

F

4 votes

A

8 votes

B

23 votes

46 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 14 comments

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Comments

The State of The Fan Nation is ...

Transient. I use this word at least once a day when describing the state of the fan who is living in the Valley and could be interested in the D-Backs. I speak as a 25 year old who recently came to this valley and loves sports, and I see us as a transient metropolis of people from all over. We appreciate personality and style more then tradition and loyalty. The only people talking about a lack of loyalty in the Diamondbacks organization are sports writers who like to see their name in print, sports radio hosts that like to cling to their job, and old people who are asleep before the 10 o'clock Sportscenter. I see the decline of fan base for the Diamondbacks as more of a sign of the times for baseball, and much less as a sign of the job of the management.

Baseball does not appeal to the young market. It's not like we don't have the ability to sell out a arena ... The Suns sell out 41 home games plus an average of 6 post season appearances on the SAME STREET as Chase Field. The Arizona Cardinals, generally considered the worst franchise in all of professional sports, sold out 8 home games and seem likely to be able to do so again next year. Yes, I understand that there is a considerable smaller schedule to fill in these examples, but we are missing out on the fact that there is not the national attention that we could have in this sport, and there is not the star that makes this possible.

Baseball is a East Coast sport that was number 1 in the country when Horse Racing and Boxing where the runners up. Now, it's playing a distant third to the NFL and the NBA, and televised poker is threatening it's livelihood and status.

The culture of baseball in general effects this, and until it can change, baseball in the Valley will be just a waste of a weekend day or a clever advertising gimmick to the casual fan.

"Pepper needs new shorts!"

by npineda on Dec 27, 2006 6:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I blame the media

Full thoughts to follow tomorrow (nice topic, by the way). But with idiots like Reaves providing the information in this town, how are we ever going to get an informed, educated fanbase? Or take this piece from talking head John Gambadoro, which clearly doesn't understand the approach you need to adopt, with the budget Arizona has. There are good journalists in this town, trying to explain the philosophy of Josh Byrnes' approach. But they're not the ones with talk shows...

by Jim McLennan on Dec 27, 2006 6:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

C

I give them a C and that shows how my views of deals/moves made differs from the general thoughts of this board. I'm hoping Byrnes learned from his mistakes last year. So far, I like what I see this off-season. Nothing. It's what he should have done last year. Or at least exercised a little bit of patience.

As for the fans, Phoenix has got to have the largest fair-weather population of any major city. This includes the media. Most of the radio guys aren't from here and are fans of other teams. Most of our fans are the same. If our teams aren't doing well, there are plenty others to go take a look at. I know tons of Phoenicians that would rather go root for the Cubs. Go figure.

Then there's this town's strange obsession with basketball. One day, someone will have to explain it to me.

by nihil67 on Dec 27, 2006 10:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

4 reasons

Just to touch the tip of the iceberg:

The biggest reason for your last question is because the Suns were the only show in town for years, since 1968 in fact. So, you have 30 years of the Suns being the only professional sports team in this Valley until the DBacks were born in 1998 (Can't really count the Cardinals in 1988). The Suns made it to the NBA championship in 1976 and almost beat the Celtics and then after going a team record 62-20, lost to the Jordan-led Bulls in a thrilling 6 games series.
Another big factor, especially with this fickle Phoenix fanbase, is "what have you done for me lately?". The Suns have been rolling the last few years while the DBacks are struggling.
Fans of sports teams need their heroes to root for. Sure, Webb is phenominal but he is no Steve Nash for your entertainment dollar.
Marketing - Every day, you see TV commercials with Suns players in them. Where are the DBacks "stars"?

by AZSEAfan on Dec 27, 2006 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Um , it might have something to do with...

...a perennial contender in a fast - paced (Except that inconsistent half - court offense) game.

Zito! Awwwwwright! Now we're back to....oh no.

by suitsmetoATnT on Dec 30, 2006 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

State of the State...

I have Byrnes a B. The main reason is, he has weathered the pressure to trade away the top-level prospects and has leveraged other pieces into improvements for the team. He has also got rid of Shawn Green, dumped Ortiz and, again, resisted the pressure to resign Gonzalez. On the down side are the "veteran presence" signings from last year (Grimsley, Jarvis and Easley), as well as the poor roster management which let All-Star Uggla get reeled in by the Marlins. But, on the whole, the good moves (Chris Young could be the steal of the decade) definitely out-number the clunkers.

With regard to the overall state of the Diamondbacks, I think it's pretty solid, at least with regard to position players. We have most spots there solidly locked down for at least the next three seasons, longer in some cases. I think we definitely have the core of an excellent team that could dominate the NL West into the next decade. Our pitching on the other hand... We still definitely need a #2 to back up Webb. Less, perhaps for the regular season, where I think we don't stack up too badly, than the playoffs: neither Davis nor Hernandez 2.0 strike any fear into me, in the way a good post-season team should. And beyond 2007, both of those will almost certainly be gone, leaving us struggling to find replacements once more.

I'd love to see us pull the trigger on a trade to get a good pitcher, not just for a one-season rental, but someone that we can lock down for the long term. Now, I know that kind of action isn't going to be cheap, but nor does the cost of pitching seem to be getting any less. If it becomes necessary to trade one of the previous untouchable position prospects, I wouldn't turn the deal down out of hand, because even with the finest starting eight in the National League [which I think is a real possibility in a couple of years], they won't go anywhere of significance without someone to follow Webb to the mound.

Moving on to the second part of the question: general fan opinion. I'm like Mister T: I get most of my info from sources other than talk radio, so don't have much sense of what Joe Public thinks of the current situation. I do get some sense of that from the diamondbacks.com fan forum, and also from the comments on articles at azcentral.com. But I'm not really too concerned. Fans who would boycott the team because Gonzo isn't re-signed, were never really fans of the Diamondbacks to begin with, so no great loss.

Part of it is probably because of the World Series: winning so fast might not actually have been such a great thing, for the franchise, because it created unrealistic expectations. Gonzo popped the state's cherry as far as national sports titles go (sorry, the Rattlers don't count) and a chunk of the fanbase has been following him around, like a 13-year old with her first boyfriend, ever since. I think a winnowing of the fanbase, to the hardcore who "get" what Josh Byrnes is doing, and who will support the team through thick and thin, may be good. Leave the passionate ones who bleed Sedona Red, and we can become the foundation going forward, rather than fickle supporters who leapt on in 2001.

As noted in my earlier post, the press and media have a big role to play in guiding this ship. Things have improved in this area over the past couple of seasons, but there are still too many idiots spouting demonstrable nonsense to an audience far larger than they deserve. Now, I'm equally opposed to having reporters who are nothing but yes-men for the franchise, and appreciate it's a difficult balance to strike. But it's clear to me that Byrnes has a plan, and putting his moves - or lack thereof - into the right context is a crucial part of coverage. Media should entertain and educate, after all.

by Jim McLennan on Dec 27, 2006 1:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Out of towner perspective

I echo Jim in my feelings about Byrnes. I think he made some missteps the first season, although the more time that passes the more I feel it wasn't entirely his fault. If I remember correctly, Byrnes was hired just before the rule 5 draft. So his miscues there are somewhat understandable. Perhaps he had to rely more heavily on insders' perspectives on the organization for moves and trusted some people with lousy opinions. Ditto for the early miscuces with signing the old guys. I have softened a bit on it because of what could have been an unfamailiarity with the roster and coming from a club in Boston that didn't have near the minor league riches we do. That said, it still doesn't diminish how big those missteps were. They were serious miscalculations. But I laud Byrnes for what seems to me to be growth as a GM this year and strength in standing up to an idiotic hometown press that continually encourages ridiculous moves.
On to the second part: being out of Phx (and AZ) now, I rely on reading the Republic online for my perspective on the hometown fan. And that frequently leaves quite a bitter taste in my mouth. First, you are lucky to get one article on the D-Backs a week (in the offseason) in the Republic (that pales in comparison to most other sports towns). And second, the opinions offered by the Republic are ludicrous. It is quite clear to me that Nick P is the only writer on staff with the Republic who knows ANYTHING about baseball. Bickley, Gambo, Boivin, Somers, Reaves are clearly fans of other sports and seem to only take up the topic of the D-Backs when they feel like whining that the D-Backs don't act more like the Yankees et al.

by johngordonma on Dec 28, 2006 9:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

First Time Poster

I rate the management team at a B. I'm glad we've begun to take the cautious approach. I doubt the Dbacks will ever be able to keep pace with the market leaders (Angels, Yankees, etc), nor should we. Free agency has grown too expensive to be reasonable for most teams. Let the moneybags duke out the rare free agent asset like Zito-- we need smart money, not more money (because we won't ever have enough to compete in the free agent sweepstakes).

The general attitude around town is disinterest. Most people don't care that much about baseball generally, so they don't really follow the offseason rumor mill. No doubt it'd make water cooler talk if we actually land RJ, but up until that point, there's not a lot of interest.

As for the Dbacks reception among general sports fans, I agree with what's been said. Fan interest in baseball is waning, unfortunately. AZ fans are fickle, transient. And our sports media is poor. This isn't a great recipe for a BoSox atmosphere among fans, but anyone expecting that level of fanhood hasn't lived in the West Coast sports environment very long. Heck, fans for Suns games (or Lakers, or Spurs, etc) do'nt get seated until half way through the first quarter. West Coast fans are chillers; East Coast fans are uptight screamers.

Among my peers who do follow DBacks, there's great anxiety. This is a precarious time for the Dbacks, who are in the midst of a transition. One wrong and large acqusition (another Glaus or Ortiz type signing) could de-rail our efforts to get young and affordable. The temptation is great because we keep telling ourselves "if only we had one more piece, we could be competitive." Are we really one piece away from competing with the now be-Schmitted Dodgers and the Zito-enrichened Giants? I think this is a year to keep a low profile and exceed low expectations. Make AZ an attractive team to come to for next year and swing an RJ type deal then.

by tabe1978 on Dec 28, 2006 3:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Welcome, tabe - glad to have you aboard

[ One wrong and large acqusition (another Glaus or Ortiz type signing) could de-rail our efforts to get young and affordable. ]

That's a very significant point. I think JB has made comments in the past about the folly of putting all our eggs in one basket. It is better to have five men who hit ten homers, than one who hits 50 - because in the latter case, you're one checked swing away from being totally screwed.

More generally, it's curious how fan interest is waning when attendance, both at major- and minor-league levels, is at an all-time high. And the business is awash with more money than at any time in history: that's partly why the free-agent market has gone insane. But there's no doubt the steroid scandal has hurt perceptions: the memory of the Sosa/Mcgwire race is now tainted, and the sport could certainly use something to capture the public imagination, in the way that did. Hard to say what that might be, as cynicism will inevitably apply now.

by Jim McLennan on Dec 28, 2006 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Big signings

[ One wrong and large acqusition (another Glaus or Ortiz type signing) could de-rail our efforts to get young and affordable. ]

Glaus wasn't that bad. Sexson was the one that proved you shouldn't put all your eggs in one power slugger. Yes, the D-backs won't have a 30+, 40+ slugger striking terror into opposing pitchers, but I prefer to see a lineup filled with tough outs from top to bottom. The problem is there is so much competition for time entertainment-wise that sports fans are often left watching highlights. Conor Jackson coaxing a walk after a 10+ pitch at-bat where he fouls off pitch after pitch won't make the highlight reel but Ryan Howard launching one deep will. And when it comes to highlights, baseball can't compete with the NBA (especially the offense-crazy Suns) where every other play seems to end in a dunk or 3-pointer.

As an out-of-towner (and then some!) fan who is lucky to see 1 D-backs games on TV per year, I prefer baseball to other sports simply because its pitch-by-pitch nature is perfectly suited for broadcast on the Internet, either through radio or some flashy gamecast thingy. And being mathematically inclined, there's nothing that can compare to baseball stats. Ok, so I'm a geek :P

by William K on Dec 28, 2006 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh ...

[you're one checked swing away from being totally screwed.]

The Check Swing of Doom. Say what you want about the 'whispers' of Gonzo, but what what professionally tuned pro athlete completely wrecks himself with a check swing? Sigh, it's a shame.

Something Tabe said about East Coast/West Coast ... I think it's a lot easier for East Coast fans to be loud and into a game when public transportation is so viable. Granted, I'm probably one of few people that doesn't object highly to 9 dollar beers (I budget for it) but I would enjoy a game a hell of a lot more if I could stumble to a bus after a beer a inning run rather then having to drive 20 miles home with the DUI laws.

"Pepper needs new shorts!"

by npineda on Dec 29, 2006 5:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That would be

"The Richie Sexson Checked Swing Of Doom" (Pat. pend....and didn't he do it twice?)

Or was that Green? Hey , I've slept since then...

Ya know , this whole "Take the pulse of Everyman's Opinion" might get wholly different results once action begins on the field......

Zito! Awwwwwright! Now we're back to....oh no.

by suitsmetoATnT on Dec 30, 2006 11:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

B-

I give the management team a B- because they have not traded away our young guys like Drew, Quentin and Young for some 30+ year old pitcher on his way out. I like the addition of Davis and Livan to our rotation. I do think we need 1 more pitcher in our rotation with some experience. Maybe a #2 or #3 guy. I hated seeing Aquino go and hope we will sign another reliever. Valverde scares me and I would love to see someone else come in to close games. I live in South Carolina so the only talk I get on the Dbacks is from my friend that moved here from AZ and any talk I drum up. I am not sure how I feel about the prospect of RJ coming back. Maybe if he comes back he goes to the Hall as a Diamondback? Looking forward to Spring Training! Go Dbacks!

by DiamondbacksWIn on Dec 28, 2006 5:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

B

I'm out of town as well, so I get my coverage here, from the Republic (blah) website, and the times I remember to pick up Diamond Talk on KTAR's website after the games. So rarely, if ever. And most of my fanbase contact is with family, who is similarly out of Phoenix, so I'm a bit distant from the local fanbase, really.

As for Byrnes, I give him a B. Hell, dropping Ortiz alone earns him no less than a C from me. He's been at the helm a year (sorry, should avoid ship analogies) and though it hasn't been exceptional, I think there's been some progress. I've no problem with them staying out of the free agent bloodbath this off-season, though I'd like to see them make some good trade moves.

Now, will I still be rating his performance at a B when Spring Training starts? That could be a different story.

by kishi on Dec 29, 2006 7:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs