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Diamondbacks All-Time Top 10. #9. Byung-Hyun Kim.


Byung-Hyun Kim

Acquired: 2/19/1999. Signed by the Arizona Diamondbacks as an amateur free agent.
Career with AZ: 243 games, 21-22, 3.26 ERA, 70 saves
Best year 2002: 72 games, 8-3, 2.04 ERA, 36 saves
Records: Games pitched (243). Single-season saves (36, 2002).
Other facts: 380 K in 328 IP. 2nd in saves (70), 5th in K's (380) 9th in IP (323). 2nd in single season games (78, 2001).
Biggest moment: Three guesses.
Departed: 5/29/2003. Traded by the Arizona Diamondbacks to the Boston Red Sox for Shea Hillenbrand.

This one is likely a contentious choice, since the picture above summarises what Kim is best known for - blowing two consecutive World Series games in Yankee Stadium. But this overshadows the fact that he was, in the main, a solid reliever and good closer. For example, often forgotten is that, before those two appearances in the World Series, he'd thrown 6.1 post-season innings and allowed only one hit.

Of course, in the end those blown games merely set up Game 7. And Kim bounced back superbly in 2002, getting a trip to the All-Star Game on his way to a franchise record 36 saves. And he did all this by the age of only 23, while living in a land whose language he didn't initially speak. Hell, he only escaped the Korean draft by winning an Asian Games gold medal.

Certainly, he had his failures, on the biggest stage imaginable. But when he was on - and, speaking objectively, that was most of the time - his submarine delivery was basically unhittable. For every wince-inducing walkfest, there was a day no-one could touch him. His K/9 figure is beaten only by the Big Unit among AZ pitchers with 150+ innings, and at his peak moments, he was certainly among the best arms we've seen in the desert.

Had history been slightly different - if we'd lost Game 7, for example - he might go down as the franchise's biggest villain. And if Jose Valverde has another stellar season, Kim might be replaced by Papa Grande in this list as the best AZ closer, come the end of 2006. But history is written by winners, and Kim's role should not be limited to Games 5 + 6 in Yankee Stadium.

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Already made my arguement
He was a mental case and his demanding to be a starter was completely detrimental to the team.

He's 9th all time in losses. (Also 9th all time in wins... that's a lot of blown saves)
10th all time in earned runs allowed.
5th all time in wild pitches.
7th all time base on balls allowed.
Does't even lead the team in career saves.

by nihil67 on Jan 14, 2006 11:21 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

In his defense...
10th in earned runs, but 9th in innings pitched.  Mantei's got 4 more saves, but Kim's got a better ERA.  7th all time in walks, but a WHIP of 1.14.  He only gave up 228 hits in 323 innings.  Kim's got an ERA+ of 140- compare that to such "middling" pitchers as Curt Schilling (145) and Brandon Webb (135).  

When he was bad, no doubt, I would have rather seen myself out there on the mound.  But when he was on his game, he's was fantastic.  And he was on his game more often than you seem to give him credit for.

by kishi on Jan 14, 2006 4:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

BK!
No question he deserves a place on the top ten.  You can't deny a guy who's got an ERA like that.  I loved watching him pitch, and still like to catch him when he pitches for the Rockies.  He's two pitchers- either dismal, or top of the line, lights out.  And though his mistakes were huge, he was brilliant other times.  Thanks for giving him credit for the good games, too.

Besides, his delivery always brings a smile to my face, second only to Mike Fetters.

by kishi on Jan 14, 2006 3:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Nope, sorry
If Jim gets to list his choice of good categories, I get to list my choice of bad.

by nihil67 on Jan 15, 2006 1:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

i've given up trying
I'd rather argue with a wall.  It's not worth my effort.

by nihil67 on Jan 15, 2006 8:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

a little common courtesy
Hey Ben,
Let's try to be civil here.  You've got a bit of a chip on your shoulder there.  You're not arguing with the world here.  In fact, I'd say I agree with you more than most who post here.  Relax.  

by johngordonma on Jan 15, 2006 9:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, civil
I have a chip on my shoulder because I can go find stats and someone will say those aren't the stats we should look at.  I'm kinda tired of it and it really makes me not want to put the effor into it.

Here's some more fun facts:

Kim appeared in 228 games in 4 years as reliever.  He recorded 19 blown saves, or 8.3% of those games.  He also recorded 22 losses (9.6% of the games he appeared in).

Matt Mantei appeared in 178 games in 5 and a half years.  He only managed to blow 13 saves, or 7.3% while also only losing 11 games (6.2%).

by nihil67 on Jan 15, 2006 9:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

look at top 10 list...
I have BK as the #1 D-Back flop.  I couldn't agree more.  I can't find a break-down that shows BK's stats like this, but my hunch (and my memory) is that he feasted on the worst teams of the league and then, in clutch situations, wilted.  The WS meltdown didn't surprise me at all at the time.  The only reason for this would be if he had a history of meltdowns (which your numbers on his blown saves bear out).

by johngordonma on Jan 16, 2006 6:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

numbers
The numbers I used for Kim did not include the year he was only a starter.  I see he started 1 game in the 2000 season, but I can't find the result of that game.  Otherwise, the numbers I stated are reliever only.

I can see your argument, but my problem is that stats are one thing, what a player did and ment has to be in the other hand while a top 10 list is considered.  Unfortunately, I'm forced to go and find stats because that seems to be all anyone will listen to around here.

Mantei doesn't deserve a spot on an all-time top 10 Diamondback list either as he was injured way too often and had the same choking problem that Kim did.  If he gets notariety for anything, it'd be that his injuries led to Kim becoming the closer for a year an a half.

My largest problem with Kim will continue to be the fact that he DEMANDED he be a starter.  This effecively ended his career with the Diamondbacks.  Had he continued to be a closer for the DBacks, I'm not sure the success would have continued due to his complete lack of mental stability and conviction that he was a starter.  As I recall, he was pretty shaky when the Red Sox tried him as a closer.

by nihil67 on Jan 16, 2006 12:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Kim's issues...
I've looked into John's theory about Kim feasting on the weaker teams. I've taken the 2002 season, because that's when he had the most saves, as our full-time closer.

Kim's 2002 Game Log

His saves came against:
LAD: 5 [92-70] + 1 blown
Col: 3 [73-89] + 1 blown
SF: 3 [95-66]
Atl: 2 [101-59]
Bos: 2 [93-69]
CHC: 2 [67-95]
Cin: 2 [78-84]
Fla: 2 [79-83] + 1 blown
Mon: 2 [83-79]
SD: 2 [66-96]
NYM: 2 [75-86]
Phi: 2 [80-81] + 1 blown
Pit: 2 [72-89]
Bal: 1 [67-95]
Cle: 1 [75-88]
Det: 1 [55-106]
Mil: 1 [56-106] + 1 blown
NYY: 1 [103-58]
Hou: 1 blown [84-78]

Adding that all up, his average save in 2002 came against a team with 80.8 wins - basically .500, which doesn't seem to indicate much of a tendency either way. [His blown saves averaged 77.3, but six is a tiny sample]

As an aside, perhaps the best moment in his career was really June 12, 2002: returning to Yankee Stadium, and this time nailing the save, fanning four in two innings. I also like July 11-13. Three straight saves in Dodger Stadium: the first two, he pitched a perfect ninth with a one-run lead.  

[ My largest problem with Kim will continue to be the fact that he DEMANDED he be a starter. ]

I was looking to see what he was in the minors, but he only played 22 games there before being called up, which is startling. AFAIK, he was a starter before coming to America: he started the semi-final game in the 1998 Asian Games that got him out of the army draft. Now, that's a pressure situation. :-) Can't blame him for wanting to stay in that role.

There's a really good article here on Kim post-2001. It gives some idea of what it was like to be in his shoes, and perhaps helps explain my respect for him.

by Jim McLennan on Jan 16, 2006 3:29 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

No doubt
He's a good story.  Even I can't deny that what he accomplished at his age and what he got away from demands respect and admiration.

by nihil67 on Jan 16, 2006 4:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure what that changes
Eric Gagne was a starter for years until he was convereted to a closer.

Likewise, John Smoltz was asked to be a closer and he didn't like it.  That's a similar situation, but he at least has prior (and continued) success as a starter in the major leagues to stand on.

There are plenty of other closers in history that were starters in the minors and even the majors.  I can't think of any off the top of my head that threw a hypothetical fit about not being a starter.  (I'm willing to concede your point there... in the past it did seem that the dirty laundry came out when a guy was being shopped or lined up for execution.)

by nihil67 on Jan 16, 2006 7:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

BK BK BK BK BK!
I had the pleasure of watching the 2002 game live -- an afternoon game, if I remember correctly, at the end of which BK hurled the ball and jumped for joy (I, in the stands, joined him).

One thing that has not come up here in Kim's defense (and I suppose it's clear to readers that I am on Jim's side here) is that the Yankees of 2001 were a phenomenal hitting team, and a particularly phenomenal clutch hitting team. Derek Jeter (HR game 4) is no slouch, and Scott Brosious (HR game 5) had done the same thing the year before against Trevor Hoffman in Game 3 to set up the sweep.

Funny, I bet if I go over to the Padres Blog I won't see a mob putting Hoffman as the worst player in the club's history.

by andrewinnewyork on Jan 17, 2006 4:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

correction of course
not the year before, but three years before, in the 1998 padres/yanks series. I got ahead of myself.

by andrewinnewyork on Jan 17, 2006 4:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

alright, alright
I suppose I must concede as the argument mounts against me.  But let me just throw out a few parting shots.  First, Stephen's comment:
[Incidently, I take the media crap about BK wanting to start, Matty not wanting to move to Denver, Durazo NOT wanting to play outfield, etc. etc. . .  with several tons of salt. This organization, under the prior leadership, was notorious for torpedoing guys when they wanted to get rid of them. Never understood it because you lower their trade value when you portray someone as a malcontent.]
Come on, Stephen.  Let's take it easy with the revisionist history.  Nobody knows exactly what went on behind closed doors.  Furthermore, there has been nothing to indicate that Garagiola et. al were anything but classy with the players.  I didn't see anybody in the clubhouse running to Matty's or BK's or Ruby's defense when those accusations were made.
Second,
[I personally believe the notion that players "choke", "meltdown", or are "clutch" is pure randomness.]
I've read several of these studies and find them, for the most part pretty conclusive.  But I the problem with these studies is that they're done by guys who are geeks, not athletes.  I believe that the psychological aspect of the game is extremely important and can crush some players.  BK was one of them.  John Rocker was another.  As was Mark Wohlers.  For the most part, every major league at bat is a 'pressure situation' -- there's not that big of a difference between the pressure of a first inning big league at bat and a ninth inning at bat with the bases loaded.  But the WS?  I think that's on a different level.
Third, and finally:
History is written by the winners, and so there is a little glow around BK because he was on the 2001 team.  But in those final 7 games, he had NOTHING to do with our victory.  In fact, he utterly failed at doing the one thing he was supposed to do on baseball's biggest stage.  If we wouldn't have won it, my feeling is that the stats would have been damned, and every last one of you would have been one my earlier bandwagon, that BK is the franchise's worst player.

by johngordonma on Jan 17, 2006 11:35 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't be on that bandwagon
Sure, I'd feel rotten about him, but since, if the Dbacks hadn't won in 2001, he probably would have pulled a Donnie Moore, we wouldn't be piling it on. No one really wants to mock a dead guy.

I think the evidence that he did indeed want to be a starter comes from the fact that since he left he has (with a short exeption in Boston) been a starter, even though the closer role clearly suited him better.

by andrewinnewyork on Jan 18, 2006 10:11 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Spin control
[ Incidently, I take the media crap about BK wanting to start, Matty not wanting to move to Denver, Durazo NOT wanting to play outfield, etc. etc. . . with several tons of salt. ]

BK and Durazo I can't really comment on, but there were plenty of quotes from Williams (allegedly, at least - though making direct quotes up would be a stretch, even for the Banana), such as this one:
    "Being there for my kids is everything in my life. This responsibility outweighs anything in my baseball career."

Less well noted is the fact that Walker also vetoed the trade, because we asked him to defer some of his salary. In the long run, perhaps a good thing this trade fell through: more debt is probably the last thing we needed.

[ I personally believe the notion that players "choke", "meltdown", or are "clutch" is pure randomness.]

I disagree: over the long-term, the effects are small, and likely to be concealed by randomness, but I feel they exist. In single games, you can detect them: I'd say the second game in Yankee Stadium was perhaps an example thereof. Throwing your 22-year old closer back into the scene of the crime - after tossing two innings - is asking for trouble, and was bound to widen any cracks in Kim's mental armour.

by Jim McLennan on Jan 18, 2006 2:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Less a choke, more a hangover?

[ By the way, how come BK didn't "choke" in the '01 divisional series against the Cards? ]

Because he hadn't blown a World Series game the night before? Game 4, I don't regard as any kind of choke: he breezed through the eighth innings, and as you said, I think you've simply got to tip your hat to Tino for the homer. The next night though...I can't even begin to imagine what it was like for Kim on the mound.

I'm trying to find out if there were any previous occasions, when Kim came back the night after blowing a save, to get one, but I can't locate any easy way to tell for 2001. I do see he took the loss in consecutive games on 9/1 and 9/2 vs. San Diego. The second night, he only faced one batter, Ryan Klesko, who smacked a home run. Perhaps a shape of things to come?

by Jim McLennan on Jan 18, 2006 8:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Game 5
There is something to be said about the mental pressure standing on the mound in Game 5 after blowing Game 4 (and seeing someone at the plate who has hit game-winning home runs in the World Series staring back at you). But imagine what it would do to a 23-year-old's psyche if he WASN'T put in in a save situation there. He has to go in. There is a mental aspect to the game, but it cuts both ways -- sometimes it's the clutch hitter who steps up his game (see Pujols v. Lidge).

Golfers choke (see Greg Norman, Jean Van de Velde) -- pitchers have someone standing at the plate who is also a top performer and must be considered.

I'm frankly still mad at Jerry Colangelo for trading Dennis Johnson to Boston for Rick Robey in 1981, so I don't think I'm the right person to weigh in on that debate.

by andrewinnewyork on Jan 19, 2006 10:08 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Psych-out?
[ I continue to believe that "choking" and "clutch"-ness is much ado about randomness. ]

I don't reckon there's any argument that psychology (and strengths or weaknesses thereof) play a part in all sports. Players run the whole gamut of mental makeup, and I can't believe, given this variety, that they are all the same at dealing with pressure - especially at the insane level of walking to the mound in Yankee Stadium, having blown a World Series game there the night before.

Baseball is a game of millimeters, the difference on the bat between a two-run homer and an inning-ending double play, and with such neo-randomness, most factors will get lost in the statistical noise over a whole season, and become unmeasurable. I think even skill level can be swamped: take Tony Womack batting .307 last year for St. Louis, 25 points higher than in any of the seven previous seasons. [Hey, it fooled the Yankees!]

My point is that Kim had never been in a situation like that before. It is, of course, impossible to prove statistically he coughed up a psychological hairball on the night. But if ever a situation was a prime candidate for a mental blowout, this was it, and it's entirely credible to me that he did: heaven knows, in his shoes, I probably wouldn't have been able to let go of the ball!

On the other hand (as someone else mentioned in another thread), if Kim hadn't been put in, that might have been just as bad for his confidence, in terms of him no longer being the "go-to" guy. It's certainly possible he'd not have got 36 saves and a 2.04 ERA the following year.

by Jim McLennan on Jan 19, 2006 8:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Ropes of many threads...
[ I said the outcomes (influenced, as they are, by MANY more inputs that simply the actions of one particular athlete) are random, later to be labeled by fans as "clutch" or "meltdown." ]

Ah, I think I see. This is really as much a difference in terminology as anything: I don't like the word "random", because of the connotations that results are governed by chance. I much prefer, "influenced by many inputs". :-)

And, I also feel, the relative importance of these inputs varies depending on the occasion. I think mental toughness comes into play for a World Series save in Yankee Stadium, the night after blowing one there, much more than in a meaningless mid-Sept game #147 at Chase vs. the Brewers. But, yes, trying to separate out the many strands and pointing to one as the cause of a single result is probably futile.

[ but it's a great topic, eh? ]

As I think the last 30 comments have proved. :-) I also note how the end of the top 10 has caused much more discussion than the choices towards the top of the list!

by Jim McLennan on Jan 20, 2006 8:28 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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