Could The Diamondbacks Trade Chris Young?
Important note. Before we begin discussing Chris Young and trades, the word in that headline to which you must pay particular attention, is the first one. It's "could", which is a very different thing from "should". I am in no way suggesting that we should be actively looking to deal our current starting center-fielder, whom I love to watch play. Young is the current true owner of the old-school nickname 'Death to Flying Things, having been credited with more putouts (812) than any other outfielder in the majors over the past two years. Sorry, Franklin Gutierrez... Oh, yeah: then there's the walk-off home-runs, including one at a SnakePitFest. Love the man.
But it seems to me, there are factors which suggest shifting CY is a deal which the club may look into at some point in the future - if they have not already done so. Not that I possess any evidence they have.
There. I trust this is all adequately vague enough for you. Now, let's begin...
Cost and budget
Chris Young will earn $7 million this year, and $8.5 million in 2013, with an $11 million team option for the season beyond that. In absolute terms, that isn't terribly expensive, and based on his past performance, still represents good value for money. Young has averaged a little over three fWAR per year since 2008, so even the option would be a good return on investment, if he continues to deliver at that level. However, Young does not exist in a vacuum. The team is looking at a number of increasing salaries, e.g. Justin Upton, who earns less this season, but will overtake CY in 2013, and the gap widens from there.
Arizona also has to look at re-signing or replacing Miguel Montero and Stephen Drew, both of whom could hit free-agency at the end of this season. Whatever happens, it won't be cheap, and management will likely have to come to decisions about who is retained and who isn't. These decisions will not be easy, and whatever choices are made, are likely to be unpopular with fans, who rarely like to see long-time players depart. However, the hard fact is, the D-backs remain a mid-budget team, and simply cannot afford to pay eight-figure sums to every position on the diamond.
A wild-card in that process could be the TV rights situation. Forbes reported in December that the team could opt out of their current contract with Fox Sports Arizona "perhaps as early as after next season, and secure [a] new deal worth at least $300,000 per game," close to twice the current amount stated as being paid by FSAZ. If that comes to pass [and it's obviously an "if" - would there be competitors willing to pay $45-50 million per year for D-backs games?], the extra $20+ million would permit a significant loosening of the purse strings. However, as more teams take advantage of similar situations, free-agent and other contract costs will likely inflate.
Available replacements
"To me, the key is that once players become too expensive, you're going to have to have players who can step in and fill that void."
-- Kevin Towers.
The above sentence, from our interview with Towers, seems to have particular significance with regard to Young. The outfield is an area where the team does have solid depth. Inextricably linked to cost is the question of who would be replacing him if he was dealt. At the moment (and through the end of 2013), Gerardo Parra would be the obvious candidate: Parra gets close to league minimum this year and probably no more than a couple of million in 2013, so the question is really not, "Will Young be worth $7 million more than a generic replacement player?", it should be, "Will Young be worth $7 million more than Parra?" That's considerably harder to answer.
An equally valid counterpoint, however, is "Will Parra be able to play center?". It's a fair question. Both the numbers and the eyes seem to suggest it's his weakest position, but it's interesting to note that this is an area of his game the team wants to see improve. Just on Sunday, Kirk Gibson said, "I'd like to see him work on center field and be able to play all the positions. He's very good on each corner. He isn't as good as we think he can be in center field." This could be entirely innocuous, simply a means to get Parra's bat in the line-up against righties: Young's OPS there (.719) is 149 points worse than vs. LHP. Or could it be in preparation for a permanent shift?
Parra is not entirely without experience there: of his 353 minor-league appearances in the field, 145 were in center, the majority (101) coming in 2008. But it has been some time since then, and center-field is undeniably a more challenging place to play. On the Bill James defensive spectrum, outside of the battery, CF trails just SS and 2B, but LF is considered ahead only of 1B in the National League. I don't doubt Parra has the raw speed for the position, and of course, there's his arm [I'd be amused to see a catcher thrown out by Gerardo at first, after a hard-hit liner through the box!]. But his jumps and routes sometimes seem problematic, though he is still only 24.
Additionally, the outfield is an area where the franchise has some decent depth, with Adam Eaton and A.J. Pollock both recently described by Towers as "very, very close" to the majors. As Jeff Summers recently noted, Pollock's K-rate at Double-A Mobile last year was strikingly low - a mere 14.1%. Clearly, that's not directly translatable to the majors, but Young's rate at the same level in the minors (albeit at a younger age, 21 compared to 23) was 23.3%. Eaton split last year between High-A and Double-A and struck out even less often in total, at 13.7%. He also has the better walk-rate, but Pollock has more experience at the position, with Eaton playing right-field after his promotion.
Of trimming strikeouts and other numbers
Before 2010, only 14 teams had ever had more than a single player with 145+ K's in a season - the '91 Tigers and '01 Brewers held the record, with three apiece. But the Diamondbacks that season had five such hitters. It wasn't long until new GM Kevin Towers began to address this whifftastic situation. Before that winter was over, Adam LaRoche was allowed to walk and Mark Reynolds found himself traded to Baltimore for relief help. Kelly Johnson followed on the road out of Arizona last summer, and Justin Upton got the message, dramatically slashing his K-rate by almost a third, from 26.6% all the way down to 18.7%.
Which just leaves Chris Young, who led the team in strikeouts last year, with a K-rate that was almost unchanged from 2010 (21.1% against 21.8%) and still sits considerably about the MLB average (17.7%). Now, you can certainly debate whether strikeouts are a "problem". Personally, I don't think the evidence suggests they were a particular issue for Arizona last year - both us and Cincinnati were significantly above league average in K's, but were also significantly above league average in runs scored. However, the evidence of the above paragraph strongly suggests KT is not a fan of them, and it's an area in which Young is the most vulnerable on the team.
But if the team gets rid of Young's strikeouts, they would also be getting rid of his walks. For CY led the team there as well, improving his walk-rate to 12.1%, also well above MLB average (8.5%). Interestingly, that's not too far away from his walk-rate when he was in Double-A (12.7%), which is very similar to Eaton's minor-league number last season (12.9%) - Pollock was not so good in this area, his walk-rate being down at 7.2%. On the other hand, Young did suffer a popupitis relapse last season, with a 26% infield-fly rate; as in 2009, that number was the worst in the majors of any hitter with 400+ plate-appearances.
Possible partners?
This falls even further into the realms of pure speculation. Here's what I've done:
a) Start with MLB.com's Top 100 Prospects, since the odds are the team would be looking for someone with a lot of years of guaranteed control
b) Look at the C + SS positions, since we seem fairly well set in most other places. Towers recently said, "If we were to make a trade, [catching and middle infield] are areas that we think we need to kind of fill a void that we currently have in our system.”
c) Prospects must be fairly advanced - let's say, have spent some time at Double-A or higher last season.
c) Exclude teams that already have a CF better than Young, one signed significantly into the future or a top prospect about to take over.
d) Exclude teams with a record significantly below .500, as they probably won't want to take on salary.
It's an entirely "sausage machine" based approach i.e. turn the handle and see what comes out, but just for fun, let's do it and see what does. Turns out, the answer is...not much, especially on the short-stop front where there are only three prospects on the Top 100 who have advanced past A-ball.
- #6 SS. Manuel Machado - Orioles. Still in A-ball.
- #7 SS. Jurickson Profar - Rangers. Still in A-ball.
- #12 C. Jesus Montero - Mariners. Just traded, not going anywhere.
- #14 C. Devin Mesoraco - Reds. Drew Stubbs under team control through 2015
- #25 C. Travis d'Arnaud - Blue Jays. Anthony Gose about to hit the majors.
- #32 SS. Francisco Lindor - Indians. Still in A-ball.
- #34 SS. Billy Hamilton - Reds. Still in A-ball.
- #46 SS. Hak-Ju Lee - Rays.
- #52 SS. Nick Franklin - Mariners. Not likely to compete for a while.
- #53 C. Gary Sanchez - Yankees. Still in A-ball.
- #55 SS. Jean Segura - Angels. Still in A-ball.
- #62 SS. Javier Baez - Cubs. Still in A-ball.
- #63 C. Wilin Rosario - Rockies. Rebuilding, so wouldn't take on the salary.
- #65 SS. Andrelton Simmons. Still in A-ball.
- #68 C. Yasmani Grandal - Padres. Rebuilding, so wouldn't take on the salary.
- #76 SS. Xander Bogaerts. Still in A-ball.
- #91 C. Christian Bethancourt - Braves. Still in A-ball
- #92 SS. Tim Beckham - Rays.
- #93 C. Ryan Lavarnway - Red Sox. Think they'll stick with MVP runner-up Jacob Ellsbury...
The two Rays shortstop prospects seem the obvious interesting possibilities. Their current CF, Upton minor, is a free-agent after this season, freeing up the $7 million he'll earn this year, and they're clearly looking to compete. Their top outfield prospects, Mikie Mahtook, Drew Vettleson and Josh Sale, appear more corner outfielders than center. Both their SS prospects are sufficiently advanced to be of interest to Arizona, though Tampa will likely want to hold on to one of them, since shortstop was a position of weakness for them last season - regular starter Reid Brignac hit below the Uecker Line in 92 games.
Former #1 overall pick Beckham's stock has fallen a long way since he was drafted in 2008, but it's worth pointing out that he still only turned 22 last month. Lee came to the Rays in the deal for Matt Garza and has the reputation of being a plus defender, though is more likely to hit for average than power. The fact that the Rays have both would seem to suggest they might be interested in moving one of them, though I am not suggesting a straight swap of Young for either one would be sufficient. But if the team is looking to trade Young, it would seem to be a potentially interesting match-up for both sides.
Conclusion
Losing Young would unquestionably hurt, speaking as a fan. He has been an essential piece of two division-winning teams and has appeared in more games for the Diamondbacks than anyone bar Gonzo and Steve Finley. Someone like that would be missed. But I'm a realist, and appreciate it's just not practical for the team to keep everyone. For a team to win, they need to address their weaknesses, by dealing from their strengths: and at this point, the Arizona outfield seems to be such a position.
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After
reading that intro, I looked for a place to sign my name to signify that I would sue if I came under any misconception that Dan (hitherto referred to as He) had inside information or thought that He had any desire for the Dbacks (Team) to trade Chris Young
isitspringtrainingyet.com
"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." - Sir Winston Churchill
by imstillhungry95 on Feb 22, 2012 11:31 PM EST reply actions
*I would not sue
isitspringtrainingyet.com
"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." - Sir Winston Churchill
by imstillhungry95 on Feb 22, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure what Dan had to do with it.
Though it was approaching Dan-esque levels of length… :)
"There's one rule by which I generally run my life:
What would Mothra do?"
by Jim McLennan on Feb 22, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
It was
but I really meant to put Jim too… I’m losing my mind. Or I’m tired, one of the two
isitspringtrainingyet.com
"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." - Sir Winston Churchill
by imstillhungry95 on Feb 22, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
I'll admit
About halfway through- around the time you were laying out the process for possible trade partners- I did go back up top to make sure that it was your name attached, not Dan’s…
"Anytime you can sign an oft-injured guy to fill a hole that wasn't there YOU MAKE THAT DEAL."
-Clefo
me too....lol
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
I like CY
But I would also like to see Trevor Bauer wearing 24. WHY CAN’T WE HAVE BOTH?!
The proudest (and possibly only) Diamondbacks fan in the state of Louisiana
by Bryan J. Boltik on Feb 22, 2012 11:48 PM EST reply actions
Well
Maybe if someone were to slip good ol’ CY a Rolex…
isitspringtrainingyet.com
"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." - Sir Winston Churchill
by imstillhungry95 on Feb 23, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Minutiae
1. Ferguson is the best known “Death To Flying Things”, however Jack Chapman sported the same moniker and is on record playing association ball a few years prior to Fergie. It’s a little unclear who got the name first.
2.
On the Bill James defensive spectrum, outside of the catcherbatter, CF trails just SS and 2B,
no biggie. just trying to clear things up for the populace ;-)
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how his pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
Good catch on #2. What was actually intended was
On the Bill James defensive spectrum, outside of the battery, CF trails just SS and 2B,
since the pitcher is deemed even more difficult to replace.
"There's one rule by which I generally run my life:
What would Mothra do?"
by Jim McLennan on Feb 23, 2012 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
okay
you fooled me, cuz I never really considered pitchers within the spectrum. but the double meaning of "outside " the battery is actually a pretty cool way to word it.
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how his pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
by Diamondhacks on Feb 23, 2012 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe Chris Young reworks his deal?
Upton sure would be sad. But its a business. Maybe they trade CY and Corbin/Holmberg for Zimmerman? If they feel they can’t get a deal done with Zim, why not? Of course you could always wait if they weren’t getting a deal done and sign him in the offseason but this is a fools chance we’re talking about. He’ll probably re-sign.
Official SuperLINtendo supporter
i used to think that the Nats was the obvious choice
to trade CY, since Rizzo is familiar with them, and since they were looking to trade for BJ Upton not too long ago either
but now it seems like they intend to play Harper in CF when he comes up, or was it moving Werth over to CF? i dunno. they’d be an interesting possibility.
by blue bulldog on Feb 23, 2012 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
its a mess over there for sure
Werth in CF? The 19 year old Harper in RF? i don’t care how good he is, he’s not mature yet for the MLB.
Official SuperLINtendo supporter
A 19 year old in right field?
What on earth could the be thinking?!
isitspringtrainingyet.com
"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." - Sir Winston Churchill
by imstillhungry95 on Feb 23, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Ha!
I’m sure it’s never ever happened before in Diamondbacks’ history…
Proud member of Team Einstein.
by NASCARbernet on Feb 23, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Has anyone
Seen scouting reports about Harper in CF? Since he was a catcher in college and has mostly played corner OF in the minors, I sort of assumed he would be a sieve in center, at least at the beginning.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Feb 23, 2012 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
I've heard both,
And honestly neither one seems like a great idea.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Feb 23, 2012 3:00 AM EST up reply actions
athleticism
i think the ones advocating Harper playing CF are also the ones who think Upton would at least be average in CF
by blue bulldog on Feb 23, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Funny
that’s exactly what I said, after seeing this CY video
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how his pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
by Diamondhacks on Feb 23, 2012 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
You know
My first thoughts when I see that is:
DFA! THEY ARE SO LAZY!! I COULD GIVE A BETTER WEATHER REPORT THAN THAT!!! WE SHOULD TRADE THEM FOR TWO LOW-CEILING FIELD REPORTERS!!!! DFA!!
isitspringtrainingyet.com
"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." - Sir Winston Churchill
by imstillhungry95 on Feb 23, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
They were both
pretty awful, weren’t they? Neither of them should quit their day/night jobs to go into full-time weather reporting!
Life's a dance you learn as you go.
by 4 Corners Fan on Feb 23, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I guess it's harder than it looks,
talking while orienting yourself to a blank screen, but I was still surprised how awkward it looked, given their tv experience.
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how his pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
by Diamondhacks on Feb 23, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
I would say the same
I bought a CY jersey this year and would hate to see him traded. I love the defense that he brings to our huge center field. He has some sick grabs over the years, and I just hope he can be more consistent offensively (most likely not haha).
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
The idea of this doesn't fill me with dread and horror
Huh.
You know what I don’t get? He never wears a shirt; he never wears shoes: Why hasn’t he died from lack of service?
We are going to have to use the surplus at either SP and OF
To fill the void at either C or SS at some point before next year. Somebody will inevitably be unhappy
CY
Was reading the article on Andrew Jones today, and it mentioned his defense (back in his heyday). I see some correlations between CYs defense and Andrew Jones’s defense; especially the awesome reads and jumps he seems to take. That said, I dont actually get to watch many DBacks games during the year, mainly just listen. So you may disagree
I sure would miss that defense in Chase. I think he has played it as well as anyone (again, in Chase). Finley and then Devon White follow him (again, in my opinion).
Sadly, trading CY makes sense. But I wouldnt under estimate his friendship with Upton (and thus a trade of CY having some impact on our seemingly good club house mojo).
two randomish points
Blue Jays – They pretty much wish Gose could turn into Chris Young. Chris Young is basically Gose’s projection, and a looooot could go wrong. However, I still don’t think the Blue Jays are a good match, because I think they’ll let Colby Rasmus try to figure it out in CF, which I think he’ll be able to do.
Rays – Would love to see us get Hak-Ju. Would not want to see us try to target Beckham. That being said…SS is such a big problem for them that I don’t see them giving up Hak-Ju.
Nick Franklin – This is a really interesting thought. If the Mariners think they can compete in 2013 for some reason (say, Pujols turns in a career worst year, Rangers arms implode or something) then they might be willing to move Franklin for a CF. It’s an extreme longshot. But I like Franklin a lot……a guy can dream right?
Overall, it seems very unlikely for us to move CY. Dude’s just too valuable, and I don’t think we can get anything we really need/want back. Now….if we’re talking a year from now, and we can dangle IPK or Huddy in front of Rangers team that desperately needs starting pitching……well….a guy can dream right?
wow
just realized that was not close to two….at all….
by blue bulldog on Feb 23, 2012 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
Why would the Mariners want Young,
with Franklin Gutiérrez signed thru 2013, and a team option for 2014?
"Without freedom of speech I might be in the swamp" B. Dylan
because Chris Young
is a lot better than Franklin Gutierrez
that being said, the fact they do have Gutierrez makes it very very unlikely….but….a guy can dream right?
by blue bulldog on Feb 23, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
You can definitely mark the Jays off the list of possibilities
Your right about Gose not being a sure thing, but they already have Rasmus and he’ll get 2 years to work things out, which is when Young would be valuable. Given that Toronto has most of their talent in the OF as well (Snider/Thames/Rasmus/Davis/Bautista are currently fighting for three spots, Gose/Sierra are lurking this year, Marisnick/Knecht/Crouse will likely be in the discussion late 2013) and they’ll likely be focusing elsewhere on the field before adding OFs.
yeah
forgot about Marisnick actually
but the Jays are definitely not a good match
by blue bulldog on Feb 23, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
I would be very surprised
If all of Kubel, Parra and Young are still here this time next year, and of those, CY seems like the most likely to get traded. It sucks, because CY’s awesome and generally seems like he fits in really well here, but that’s business. Of course, another option would be to package Eaton or Pollock for someone at SS or C, but that probably doesn’t solve the problem of this core getting expensive over the next few seasons.
Also, if Profar keeps tearing up the minors, I wonder if (and when) the Rangers would entertain trade scenarios for Elvis Andrus.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Feb 23, 2012 1:26 AM EST reply actions
i just don't think
Eaton or Pollock would get us a decent SS/C. they seem to be the type of prospect that gets underrated or at underhyped (as opposed to, say, Bauer/Skaggs/Parker). if we were to trade either or, i’d rather trade CY because i think we’d have a higher chance of getting commensurate value.
and dude….i keep dreaming that the Rangers trade Profar or Andrus to us. like actually dreaming. while sleeping. but seriously…i feel like our strength in pitching (which is really the only remotely weak spot on the Rangers’s team) makes us a decent match with them.
the other thin that makes this difficult though, is that the Rangers don’t seem like they will extend Kinsler anymore. they could end up just keeping both Andrus and Profar, and playing Andrus at 2B.
by blue bulldog on Feb 23, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Andrus and Profar
I think that’s our real target. You’re right: it’s hard to tell what Texas wants to do, but they certainly seem to have at least one expendable part there. And with our surplus in arms it seems like we could make it happen if they were willing.
"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra
by njjohn on Feb 23, 2012 10:15 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Eaton and Pollock
Almost certainly wouldn’t garner a starting-caliber player on their own, but I was suggesting packaging them with Holmberg or even Davidson/Borchering. But when you factor payroll, trading CY certainly makes more sense unless the FO really does decide to go “all in.”
Andrus and Profar are both probably pipe dreams, but it’s fun to think about. I’m not sure I see how Texas’ weakness is starting pitching though. From where I’m sitting, it looks like they have six starting-quality pitchers (Ogando would be in the rotation on most teams in baseball, IMO) with a few more interesting arms on the way.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Feb 24, 2012 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
Texas's pitching
Maybe I shouldn’t say Texas’s weakness is their starting pitching. More like, Texas’s only potential weakness, on paper, to me, is their starting pitching.
Darvish actually has a decent shot at combusting. It’s not easy to tell how Japanese players will translate to the majors here. Neftali Feliz is no guarantee to switch to the rotation cleanly. Harrison/Holland/Lewis aren’t exactly dominant guys either. Their peripherals make them look like finesse guys. Harrison in particular, outplayed his peripherals last year.
I guess I just mean, if the Rangers don’t make the playoffs this year, I’d imagine it’s because their starting pitching imploded.
by blue bulldog on Feb 24, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Sigh
It does seem reasonable that CY would be traded at some point. That will be sad. I really like him. I have loved watching him play CF over the years. I think he is just a great CF. I also worry a bit about his close friendship with Upton, and what losing CY would do to Upton and/or team chemistry. It would be nice to see the DBacks win the World Series while CY is still here. So, this year, right?
Anyway, hope CY has a great year. Would love to see less pop ups.
They definitely could, but I don't think they will.
In 2013 we could potentially have Montero, Drew, Saunders, Putz and possibly Kubel(They could trade him) leave and free up a huge amount of money. While I don’t think all of those guys will leave, I think it’s safe to assume that there will be about 15 million dollars freed up. So there will be a cushion for a lot of the player’s pay increases.
"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung
Like I said, "I don't think all of those guys will leave"
but hypothetically
Montero- trade for Kurt Suzuki
Drew- Erik Aybar
Saunders-Tyler Skaggs
Putz- David Hernandez
Kubel- Parra/ Pollock
If I had to guess I would say we will only keep one of Drew or Montero. If Drew comes back healthy this year, then I think he’d be the more likely choice because he has a mutual option.
"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung
Good call on Kurt Suzuki. He’s a solid, underrated backstop. Now that Oakland has Derek Norris, I could see them trading Suzuki. Not a bad fallback option for losing Montero at all.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Feb 24, 2012 4:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i don't see anything anywhere about this new deal.
are you thinking of the Yankees’ Montero trade to the mariners maybe? that’s all I’ve seen in the news in regards to a Montero.
Ummm
I see this no where. Do you have a link or anything?
isitspringtrainingyet.com
"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." - Sir Winston Churchill
by imstillhungry95 on Feb 23, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Well
I guess you COULD call the one year deal a new deal….although it’s not really new at this point anymore…
"How much money can we offer Brandon Lyon without making him suspicious?"
You lie!
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Well
we don’t really need to put it like that…
isitspringtrainingyet.com
"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." - Sir Winston Churchill
by imstillhungry95 on Feb 24, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
I bet the Nationals would be interested
They have been looking to upgrade in center for a while. In the situation where something happens, I’m not sure what the Nats would offer in return since they got rid of so many prospects for Gio Gonzalez.
The proudest (and possibly only) Diamondbacks fan in the state of Louisiana
by Bryan J. Boltik on Feb 23, 2012 1:49 AM EST reply actions
anthony rendon for chris young
boom
(this is not happening, unless rendon’s shoulder dies on him, in which case we wouldn’t even want him)
by blue bulldog on Feb 23, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Young to Washington for Steve Lombardozzi and Chris Marrero. I’d do it.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Feb 24, 2012 4:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I still think the Nationals could be more in this than they think they are right now
Because neither Harper nor Werth are gonna cut it in center. A Werth/CY/Harper outfield would be a damn fine outfield.
Now, if only we could figure out a package that pries Ryan Zimmerman from them…
"How much money can we offer Brandon Lyon without making him suspicious?"
I could see Washington acquiring Young, but they’ve been linked to B.J. Upton for a long time and I get the impression that he might cost slightly less in terms of prospects.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Feb 24, 2012 4:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I thought
Death To Flying Things was Randy’s title after the bird incident? ;-)
♯♩♪ Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way ♫♬♭♮
There have been a lot
of Deaths to Flying Things in the history of baseball
isitspringtrainingyet.com
"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." - Sir Winston Churchill
by imstillhungry95 on Feb 23, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Ha
I like it!
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how his pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
by Diamondhacks on Feb 23, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
I like Simmons and Hak-Ju as targets
Someone we know for sure has the glove for shortstop. Getting a fringey SS/2B tweener is, at least in my view, not ideal for this club and this park. Simmons in particular seems like a solid choice for me. If (big if) he can hit a shallow .270-.280 in the bigs, his glove should make him a capable regular at rookie minimum costs.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 23, 2012 9:33 AM EST reply actions
Simmons
would scare the bejeebus out of me, as a headliner for a CY trade
definitely scared of the “big if” you mentioned.
would love to get Hak-Ju, but as kinda mentioned above, i just don’t see the Rays giving up their best SS prospect, considering how cost-conscientious they must be.
by blue bulldog on Feb 23, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
At the same time
He did hit .311 last year. It’s not like he’s completely inept at the plate. I’m a bit Simmons fan. And at 6’2", I don’t think some decent doubles power is out of the question.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 23, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
i actually kinda agree with you and nixa, in the sense that Simmons is getting underrated because (at least for me) he’s a high floor-low ceiling type
it just sorta scares me a little when a prospect absolutely needs to hit 280ish to have value in his bat. fwiw it doesn’t look at all like he’ll ever have a strikeout problem.
by blue bulldog on Feb 23, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
this is why I like the Kubel sigining
because it moves Parra to the 4th outfielder and could potentially move him to CF if CY isnt producing at the dish this year. You could have Kubel hitting 5th and have Parra stay in the 8th hole where he almost hit for avg
But they probably wouldn't
Feel as pressed to trade CY if Kubel wasn’t on the team, making $15 million over the next two years. In the abstract, I like having Kubel on this team, but not at that price.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Feb 23, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
The Kubel signing remains a mystery
like Sasquatch or why David Letterman is still on the air.
Proud member of Team Einstein.
by NASCARbernet on Feb 23, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
I don't even like it in the abstract
If giving good money to a DH in the NL costs us Montero, CY and Parra (or even 2 of the 3), I think it’s beyond stupid. It would be enough to make me into a permanent Angels fan. As much as I hate the DH, I still prefer the way they operate.
the hard fact is, the D-backs remain a mid-budget team, and simply cannot afford to pay eight-figure sums to every position on the diamond.
They might have more money if they weren’t signing every aging, mediocre MIF they could find to multi-year deals. Even without the Kubel signing, I have a hard time letting the FO off the hook when they do things like that.
by azshadowwalker on Feb 23, 2012 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
Those middle infielders
are not getting paid that much (assuming you meant, Blum, Johnny Mac, and Bloomquist).
I meant it
In the sense that having Kubel as a fourth outfielder is almost certainly superior to having Willie Bloomquist as a fourth outfielder.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Feb 24, 2012 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
Parra Can Play CF
When Parra was in Visalia, he played CF quite well. He moved up the ladder pretty fast, and has been used as a corner OF. Given more work and time back in CF, I think he will be able to do well. It won’t be like he’s taking his first steps on a different planet.
really excellent article Jim
Thanks for the thorough and thoughtful analysis.
"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra
by njjohn on Feb 23, 2012 11:00 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
No
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
by sonic barracuda on Feb 24, 2012 2:32 AM EST reply actions
Well, I mean,
He could…
"this whole thing is gonna be awesome, especially if it turns out this bad."
-Fake Jeffrey Loria
by Zavada's Moustache on Feb 24, 2012 3:01 AM EST up reply actions
Great read
Nice analysis, good perspective, well done. Will bring me back.
if your name isn't j-up
Then your definitely not untouchable, just sayin.
by Tucson d-back fan on Feb 24, 2012 10:43 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I think
as of right now, Bauer could be added to that list of untouchables
isitspringtrainingyet.com
"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." - Sir Winston Churchill
by imstillhungry95 on Feb 24, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
I'd add
Archie Bradley to that list.
If cheapness of living… and pretty women, are a man’s objects in fixing his residence, let him live at Venice.
Arthur Young, Travels, 1792
by NASCARbernet on Feb 24, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
As would I. What with potentially having a higher ceiling than Bauer and all.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Feb 24, 2012 4:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
the thing about Bauer
is beyond his extraordinary stuff, he’s very smart and I think he can learn to be effective even when he can no longer whiff batters at 96 mph. That’s part of what makes him so intriguing and hard to predict.
Bradley seems to have unlimited ability as a power pitcher, we just hope he takes good care of his arm and that he’s resistant to injury.
If cheapness of living… and pretty women, are a man’s objects in fixing his residence, let him live at Venice.
Arthur Young, Travels, 1792
by NASCARbernet on Feb 24, 2012 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Definitely. Bauer has a pretty unique approach to pitching (I read that he studies up on biomechanics and applies some of those concepts to his throwing) and seems to have an intense work ethic. I think he could have an excellent career. Bradley’s floor is obviously way lower than Bauer, but his ceiling is in the stratosphere. I’m beyond stoked that we landed both of them.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Feb 24, 2012 5:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think pre-injury Parker would have been in that class
If cheapness of living… and pretty women, are a man’s objects in fixing his residence, let him live at Venice.
Arthur Young, Travels, 1792
by NASCARbernet on Feb 24, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
Potential new TV contract
I think this will turn out to be a short term bonus (if it happens at all). All the clubs seem to be getting increased local revenue – which will just drive up payroll all around the league, and we will still be a mid-market team. We’ll just be paying more to be mid-market.
But maybe it comes at just the right time to let us keep CY for a couple more years?
TV contract
i think it will only be a short-term benefit as wel
also, I’m a little surprised/disappointed that the additional revenue would only amount to around $20 million a year. that’s definitely not enough to go out and start acquiring superstar level players.
by blue bulldog on Feb 24, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
An extra $20 million per year could get you one superstar player…the front office would just need to choose wisely. Might need that money to extend Upton or Bauer down the road too (if everything goes according to plan with them, anyway).
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Feb 24, 2012 4:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Don't forget Montero!
If cheapness of living… and pretty women, are a man’s objects in fixing his residence, let him live at Venice.
Arthur Young, Travels, 1792
by NASCARbernet on Feb 24, 2012 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
That contract will have to dealt with this season, so I’m assuming the front office already has some money earmarked for him.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Feb 24, 2012 5:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
well
my point was more that with upcoming raises for guys like Upton (and if we want to keep both of IPK/Hudson as they get expensive)
we won’t be able to get a superstar player with just that extra amount of money
by blue bulldog on Feb 24, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
also
what i’m thinking about, is if Goldschmidt doesn’t pan out, whether the Dbacks have any shot at landing Votto when he hits FA
by blue bulldog on Feb 24, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Pollock
Trade Young and call up AJ Pollock from Mobile to play center.
Its not quite that simple
AJ Pollock may not be able to play center at Chase. It takes a lot of fly balls to become comfortable in a quirky stadium like that, and the fact is, he may not be anywhere near as good as CY. Moreover, it’s a huge leap to go from the minors to the majors. Nice try though.
If cheapness of living… and pretty women, are a man’s objects in fixing his residence, let him live at Venice.
Arthur Young, Travels, 1792
by NASCARbernet on Feb 25, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
CY is one of the best defensive CF in the game
Pollock is very unlikely to be as good as CY in CF
by blue bulldog on Feb 26, 2012 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
CY wins games with his ability to run down long fly balls
and he started to make some strong throws toward the end of last season, too.
If cheapness of living… and pretty women, are a man’s objects in fixing his residence, let him live at Venice.
Arthur Young, Travels, 1792
by NASCARbernet on Feb 26, 2012 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
CY vs AJ
CY gets more HRs and way more K’s. I believe other production categorys would be very similar including defense, speed and intangibles.
Also, CY is quite lazy and sporadic in my opinion. I’d much rather a young up and comer who’s hungry and grasping his dream to play in the bigs.
You must have never seen AJ Pollock play
AJ is an awesome outfielder and if the Baybears games were covered by TV; Pollock would have a bunch of TOP PLAY nominations. I’m sure he’d get used to the field atmosphere. As for the leap, Goldschmidt made the leap from Mobile last year fairly easily and I’m sure Bauer or Skaggs could manage also if needed.
TOP PLAY nominations
I was referring to ESPN
He may be all that
but CY is all that. Do you see the difference?
If cheapness of living… and pretty women, are a man’s objects in fixing his residence, let him live at Venice.
Arthur Young, Travels, 1792
by NASCARbernet on Feb 26, 2012 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
He's so far from all that man
Upton is all that and CY aint
Defensively
CY is far superior. If you think otherwise, I don’t really know what else to say haha.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
agreed
Uptons defense improved a lot just last season tho. Will he ever be at CY level? I dunno but he could be close
by cgcardzfan on Feb 27, 2012 10:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Don't think so
He has dropped a lot of balls and or taken a bad route to the ball.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
you can't possibly compare
Goldschmidt’s bat to Pollock’s bat
they are on totally different levels. Goldschmidt walks way more and hits for a lot more power. Pollock’s bat is no guarantee to translate to the majors.
at this point, i’d say something like 280/330/380 would be near the high-end of expectations for him.
also, you have to realize, if Pollock’s defense was that good, then talent evaluators would have Pollock among the Top 100 prospects in baseball easily, if not the Top 50. most scouts who have seen Pollock play CF have said that he’s probably average to slightly above average there. CY on the other hand, is definitely one of the top 5 defensive CF in the game, and probably among the top 3.
by blue bulldog on Feb 26, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions

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