Diamondbacks Report Card: Justin Upton (and the Burden of Talent)
by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 17, 2012 4:42 PM EST
in Diamondbacks Features
Email
PrintName: Justin Upton
Age on Opening Day: 23
Salary: $4,458,333
2011 Stats: 159 games, 674 PAs, .289/.369/.529, 31 HR, 88 RBI
2010 Stats: 133 games, 571 PAs, .273/.356/.442, 17 HR, 69 RBI
Talent is a strange burden in the professional sports world.
One particularly talented young man, Justin Upton, exploded onto the MLB scene in 2009, posting a 132 wRC+ and a .300/.366/.532 line, making the All-Star team, and placing 25th in MVP voting. With such a phenomenal age-21 season under his belt, big things were expected from Upton in 2010. The right field bleacher section of Chase Field was re-named "Uptown," he was handed a six-year, $51.26MM contract extension, and if he hadn't already been the official face of the future when he was handed a then-record $6.1MM signing bonus as the top pick in the 2005 draft, he most certainly was the face of the future in the off-season of 2009-2010, and the future was now.
Then, Upton had a solid 2010. Unfortunately for Upton, I don't think it's inaccurate to say that "solid" was immensely underwhelming for many D-backs fans. Sure, that may not have been fair to the 22-year-old Upton - heck, Ryan Roberts gave us a 107 wRC+ at third base in 2011 and we were absolutely pumped, but a 110 wRC+ in right field from Upton in 2010 left us wanting more? What, did 2009 simply disappear? Yet, this is the burden of enormous talent. From the (darkest) corners of the internet, questions about Upton cropped up: Can he be as good as his physical talent suggests he should be? Is he too quiet to be a team leader? Did he cave under the pressure the organization put on him to be the franchise star at age-22? Was he brought up from the minors too soon? Was he frustrated by the poor team Arizona had fielded, even in his breakout campaign? And, as with any question asked in the off-season, there was no way to know the answers until the following season rolled around.
Then, 2011 happened.
On a team that would head to the post-season for the first time since the "Sticking-it-to-Pythag" 2007 season, Justin Upton was The Man, and not just according to me. With Don Baylor on board as hitting coach, Upton took off once again. His batting average climbed back up to .289, and his strikeout rate was a career-low 18.7%. His on-base percentage rose to .369, a career-high. His slugging percentage was .529, just three points shy of his 2009 peak. He whacked 31 home runs and swiped 21 bases, making him the third 30-20 player in franchise history, joining 2009 Mark Reynolds and 2007 Chris Young. Upton's wOBA of .385 was tied for 17th-best among qualifying hitters in 2011, with some guy named Albert Pujols that you may have heard of. His 2011 wRC+ of 140 was tied for 19th-best among qualifying hitters, with Alex Avila. Upton's 7.7 UZR was the highest among qualifying right-fielders.
In other words, pick any offensive stat, and it'll say something good about Justin Upton's 2011 season. As such, it was no surprise to D-backs fans when Justin Upton received an NL Silver Slugger Award this off-season. Here's an interview clip of Upton discussing his 2011 season and Silver Slugger Award with the MLB Network crew:
Even beyond the numbers, it seemed as if Upton came alive in 2011. You could see the confidence he exuded, and while some may lament things like the home run bat-toss as showy, I bask in the swagger it shows. Just as Ian Kennedy's strikeout foot-stomp is a delightful display of "hell yeah I did that," you could see Upton steadily realizing just how awesome he is. Now, this isn't to say that I want Upton to become pompous, but I do think that Upton's increased confidence had a material impact on his season, specifically in mitigating his prior tendencies to fall into massive slumps, as we saw repeatedly in 2010. A year ago, it seemed that Upton would focus more on what he was doing wrong than what he was doing right, and when even the best players fail about 60% of the time, that kind of mindset can be catastrophic, even to someone as talented as Upton. In 2011, Upton - probably with the help of Baylor - was able to keep on a more even keel, and the consistency was apparent.
The result of it all was one of the best all-around age-23 batting seasons of all time, and as Arizona fans know by now, that is not hyperbole. Just how good was it? Well, let's see if we can't take a look. Here is a link to a Baseball_reference search of all age-23 batting seasons since 1961 (the Expansion Era) of at least 500 plate appearances in which the hitter posted a line of at least .270/.350/.510. It's a delightful list for D-backs fans to behold. Sure, Upton is in the bottom half of the list when you sort it by OPS, but being immediately behind Andruw Jones and Grazy Sizemore, and immediately ahead of Robinson Cano and Evan Longoria is some remarkable company.
Of course, the most fascinating part of Upton's 2011 to me is reading how many people are saying things like "he is just scratching the surface of his potential." Yep, a .289/.369/.529 line is the tip of the iceberg for Upton. For instance, ESPN's Keith Law rated Upton the #1 player under 25-years-old in the game (a forward-looking post, BTW), and while most of it is behind the INsider pay-wall, the Upton section is not. Here's the synopsis from Law on J-Up:
Analysis: Upton was an MVP candidate for most of the season until Matt Kemp pulled away in September (and the voters went all retro by deciding the MVP had to be on a playoff team, d'oh). He still has a significant amount of upside left as he continues to get stronger and to refine his approach at the plate. His walk rate slipped in 2011, but he dramatically increased his contact rate, and traded some ground balls (and double plays) for fly balls (and doubles and homers). He's a five-tool player who would probably play center on some clubs, with several 30-homer seasons ahead of him; a .310/.400/.570 peak isn't out of the question.
Yes, for those asking, a .310/.400/.570 peak with center-field-caliber defense would make Upton a megastar. Not just a star in the 2011 sense, but a "12-year, $300MM contract" type of star - and that might be underselling this, considering that's a mere $25MM AAV after four years of baseball inflation. Upton could shatter records for the contract he'll receive as a free agent if he reaches the ceiling of his legendary tools.
However, shifting back to the beginning and purpose of this post, we have to ask ourselves how Upton's 2011 season compared to our expectations. This, of course, means that we have to have a basic definition of what expectations for Upton were, which takes us right back to the beginning of the post, and the burden of talent. Expectations for Upton in 2011 weren't to have another 2010-caliber season. Upton is too talented for fans to be content with him stagnating at a "solid" level of production. So expectations, at least for me, were somewhere in between 2010's "solid" and 2009's "star" production levels.
Seeing as how Upton essentially returned straight to "star," he certainly grades out above-average, but the expectations were simply too high to go with an A grade here, especially since there's still so much room for improvement, scary as that thought might be. That's not to say he deserves a bad grade in any way - he'll get a grade B+ from me - but, well, it's just the burden of his ridiculous talent. We did get an additional contribution from the 'Pit on J-Up, so let's hear Marc's thoughts:
Marc: A
Upton topped 30+ home runs last year at the age of 23 and could soon join the 30/30 club as a 24-year-old. He's got gold glove material in the outfield, has already snagged a Silver Slugger award, and has 238 extra base hits in his brief career. The sky is the freakin' limit.
71 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
A-
Because I’m just that way…
But seriously, superb season last year. I’m also beginning to notice that he appears to value winning over personal achievement. If this carries over, and is true, we can see the grade change to A+ in October.
Where's soco?
A
With an A++ coming this year now that he will have a legit protection presence behind him with Goldy and Kubel.
Upton gettting better pitches in the zone and not at his head= MASSIVE #’s
Freeze it..and make a popsicle
B-
He was my team MVP, but this grade is more about the absurd talent Dan noted, and the fact young Upton now has more career ABs than 37 year old John McDonald. Absurd talent? Well, he hit a ball over the fence with a bat that shattered a couple inches above his right index finger. Another time, he smacked the longest left field drive ever at our 14 year old venue. When adopting the more restrained strategy of not trying to jerk every other pitch 600 feet, he managed to hit .414 for an entire month (May 30-June 29).
Despite remaining baseball’s clumsiest, least refined outfielder, into his fourth full season, who approaches fences as if they’re radioactive, Upton still ran down more flies (339) than any corner outfielder in the game. That’s not craft, particularly. That’s talent.
He basically shows up and that’s 90% of his value. That’s not to say he hasnt developed. He has, and I appreciate the 159 starts, respect the league leading 19 HBPs without instigating a fight, and celebrate that gorgeous month where he stroked the ball up the middle like Tony Gwynn. But…is it too much to ask someone so gifted to hit .300 on the year? Not .350….300. Or higher than .820 ops in high/medium lev situations (as he, in fairness, had prior to 2011)? Or to not accumulate more fielding errors than any any other outfielder had total errors (fielding + throwing)? Or to have the worst error/assist ratio in the game year after year? Or to make a spectacle of himself after making the third out in a seven run first inning?
Alongside Matt Kemp, Justin’s the the most physically imposing talent in the league. When he concentrates on his craft, he’s a truly great player. Shares initials with John Updike and Juan Uribe.
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how his pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
i think you're being too harsh
two points in particular:
1) “…who approaches fences as if they’re radioactive…” I don’t get this impression of him at all. I don’t think I will ever forget that insane leaping catch (preventing a triple) he made against the Giants while running full speed towards the wall. You just can’t make a catch like that when you are afraid of running into the fence.
2) “But…is it too much to ask someone so gifted to hit .300 on the year?” A lot of this is due to his early troubles in April/May, when he was working on adjusting his approach to make more contact. If you remember, prior to the season starting, a lot of analysts were saying Upton would never be able to reach star potential because he simply could not make enough contact. Well, Upton worked on that a lot, and it showed immediately, as his strikeout rate was much lower than the 25% he posted last year, at the beginning of the season. The problem with that, is that because he was learning a new approach, he still wasn’t able to get particularly great contact, which lower BABIP can attest to. But the fact that he realized the strikeouts were a problem, and were preventing him from having greater success, and made the difficult effort to change that, even while having to go through a couple months of struggle, I think that says a lot about his character as a baseball player continually striving to get better.
by blue bulldog on Feb 18, 2012 6:02 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Additionally, he’s a POWER HITTER, not a finesse guy, so asking him to hit .300 is asking him to tone down his power unnecessarily. I’ll take .280 with 30 plus home runs any time, anywhere.
Where's soco?
by NASCARbernet on Feb 18, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
1) That catch was a terrific athletic display, but I think you’re somewhat overstating its courage. Upton was running hard, which is a big deal because he’s so fast, but he’s not really running at the wall nearly so much as sprinting parallel to it. It’s creeping up on him, to be sure, and you can tell he’s worried about it because he’s not really looking the ball into his mitt – he’s looking at the wall, which on the course he’s following is still three or four steps away. It’s quite a wide track and you’ll notice he leaps from just inside the lip of the grass, off the wrong foot of course, lands on his left, then takes a right and another left as he braces against the thick padding. Daron exclaims that he “banged into the wall”, but I think anyone can see that didnt really happen. Which, as Dbacks’ fans, may be a good, smart thing. Upton has tremendous range going deep, and I’ve often wondered if mgmnt advised him at one point or another to take it easy near the walls, but in any case, I cant remember him running into any last season. I do agree this was a terrific catch and one of his best.
2) Interesting reply, but I saw his batting approach a little differently. You’re right, his K rate was down early, but in the last week of April he was also slugging 530 w/ a .280 BA. He wasnt struggling. What happened then, is he started whiffing a lot over two weeks and went into a slump, and I think it was only then that they started to try different stuff in earnest. To your point, he slumped two or three more weeks, as his teammates salvaged the season, and then, by the end of May he took off and absolutely carried the waning offense for a month. In other words, I dont really see where he changed his approach in response to the 2010 K concerns. Maybe I’m confusing approach with results somewhat – studying tape might be useful here – but my impression was he really tried going up the middle more in late May, especially in his early inning PAs, where he’s historically given away at bats. His HR rate went down but he hit more doubles and a ton more singles and that’s when his value peaked.
In short, we see things differently… but I do appreciate the intelligent dialogue.
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how his pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
by Diamondhacks on Feb 18, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
i think we'll just have to agree to disagree
on the first point
when i look at the video (freeze framing every split second as fast as i can), i see that for sure he’s staring at the ball when it’s still 4 feet above his head, and as the ball arcs down, his eyes follow the ball into his glove
the major problem is that the ball/glove is in the exact same direction as the wall. unless you have a high definition zoomed in view on his glove/face at the instant he catches the ball, there’s absolutely no way you can tell whether he’s looking the ball into his glove vs. looking at the wall to brace for impact.
the point in my favor though, is that i really think it’s incredibly difficult to complete that catch without having perfect/continuous focus on the ball. he’s trying to make the catch while leaping in the air after sprinting full speed. you see it all the time in football, where the wide receiver drops a catch because he took his eyes off the ball for just a split second before the ball reaches him, because he’s looking downfield either for more yardage or an incoming hit from the cornerback.
as for the distance from the wall, i’d say that when he lands after the catch he’s only about three feet away from the wall, which is absolutely nothing considering his momentum going into the catch.
finally, i have to admit that i’d actually hope mgmt advised him to take it easy near the walls. i actually sorta wanted to bring this up earlier and decided not to, but i’d rather have Upton run into fewer walls while fielding. saving that double/triple whatever is good, but i’d really not risk any injuries, especially since he’s already had a shoulder injury
by blue bulldog on Feb 18, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
He caught the ball well over his head
and I saw the bill of his cap go down “as” he was making the catch. It’s a little, perhaps involuntary cheat OFers sometimes employ when they’re concerned about impact. And it’s not ‘incredibly difficult’ to catch a baseball that way – I know because I’ve done it , albeit at slower speed – it’s just a little last second cheat, or tradeoff, that reduces your chances of securing the ball while improving your body equilibrium and self preservation after the catch.
Dont get me wrong. I dont think that makes Upton a coward. This is a great catch. I’m saying it’s a great catch because he’s really, really fast – not because he exhibited excellent fundamentals or unusual derring-do. I’m implying that he takes his eye off the ball like this way too much, which compromises his seasonal defense with various drops and bobbles, but that this time it worked and had a great outcome.
The leap which appeared necessary to catch the ball also slowed his forward momentum towards the wall. We disagree on how close he was…he caught it in mid leap, came down on his left foot, swung to his right, followed by a quick left right shuffle near the fence. After the catch, he had time to swing his right arm from his body to extend it fully in front of the fence. Sorry, but that’s not three feet. It’s at least eight diagonal feet, and I believe closer to ten or twelve. At his speed, if it had been anything less than a body length, six ft or so, he would’ve genuinely banged the wall and risked injury.
cheers
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how his pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
by Diamondhacks on Feb 18, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Why would you want him to be reckless
I don’t even agree with your assesment….but even if you were right about him not going all out to make plays, I’m ok with him avoiding serious injury for minimal gain.
Unless it is game 7 of the world series with 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th, the benefit to be gained on any one play, in any one game by being stupid and running into a wall at full tilt , and likely getting seriously injured, is off set by the time missed and value lost when a player is out of a long time.
It’s cool I guess, we love the valor…….but I like to win the most.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
I dont want him to be reckless
I want him to be fundamentally sound, whether it’s keeping his eye on the ball, learning controlled dives where he doesnt hit the turf like a train wreck, or having better awareness of where he is on the field. Especially in his home park.
One time I thought he had nice awareness was when he ran to the edge of the RF stands in foul territory, lept high and thrust his mitt into the raised area to steal an out. It was not just athletic – it was controlled, premeditated as if he had assessed the risk and decided to “go for it”. It was a smart athletic play, that fired up his team; the kind guys like Brian Jordan used to make semi-regularly. That’s the only time I’ve seen Justin make a play like that in four years. Any by “like that” I dont mean hustling or running hard, I mean at or into the stands or reaching over the fence. That sort of thing. Too often, in those situations, he looks confused, tentative or like an accident waiting to happen. Just my observation.
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how his pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
by Diamondhacks on Feb 18, 2012 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
Ehhh, I agree with his point
Alongside Matt Kemp, Justin’s the most physically imposing talent in the league.
It’s not crazy to expect crazy things from players with crazy talent. Justin has crazy talent. The expectations are incredibly high, and Upton, for all of his stardom, is still somewhat rough around the edges. It’s more of a compliment to Upton than anything else to say that we can reasonably expect him to hit .300 or thereabouts with power and patience.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 18, 2012 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
baseball’s clumsiest, least refined outfielder,
That’ll go out the window once the A’s (or whomever) sign Manny Ramirez.
by Azreous on Feb 18, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Or until ’Hacks remembers that Adam Dunn exists.
"Anytime you can sign an oft-injured guy to fill a hole that wasn't there YOU MAKE THAT DEAL."
-Clefo
Dunn's "played" 14 outfield innings
since 2009. I dont think anyone’s considered him “an outfielder” for quite a while.
Upton’s obviously a better defender, due to wheels, but I wouldnt necessarily call him more refined:
Dunn: 9179 defensive innings….68 errors….52 assists
Upton: 4839 defensive innings…45 errors….17 assists
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how his pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
by Diamondhacks on Feb 18, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
C-
I post on azcentral
;)
Just kidding on both counts. A+
Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
F
What a bum
"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung
But really
Big thing for Upton last year was his health IMO. Those nasty shoulder injuries worried me more than the drop in production in 2010.
by CaptainCanuck on Feb 17, 2012 11:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
this is a no brainer, A
I just got his Jersey for Valentine’s day from my gf ;) , my only fear is is when his contract up after 2015 , we’re not gona be able to afford him and he walks, yes i kno its 4 yrs away but its just my opinion. As for this year im predicting 40 + Jack’s. 115 + ribbys
by Tucson d-back fan on Feb 18, 2012 12:07 AM EST via mobile reply actions
It's going to be really tough to keep him
but by 2015 Archie Bradley, Trevor Bauer, and Tyler Skaggs should be really good, so that should lessen the pain.
"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung
One of those three pitchers won't be here in 2015
the guess here is it’s the lefty.
Where's soco?
by NASCARbernet on Feb 18, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
here we go....
Seriously, what is it that you don’t like Skaggs?
by dbacks25 on Feb 18, 2012 3:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He doesn't dislike Skaggs
Skaggs just doesn’t have the power arsenal to easily project as a #1. It’s like picking between a trillion dollars and a hundred billion dollars. You prefer the trillion dollars, but a hundred billion dollars is absolutely freaking amazing.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 18, 2012 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Has Skaggs ever really been projected as a legit #1 starter, though? Most scouting reports I’ve read stick with the “very good #2 starter” angle in terms of his upside. But yeah, I’d take a good #2 starter any day of the week.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Feb 18, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 20, 2012 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
depends
i think his current upside is as a No. 2 starter, but most of that is because his fastball sits 91 mph, and his changeup is still a bit inconsistent
but if he fills out some more and gains velocity, where he’s sitting 93-94 mph, then you’re going to hear people start saying that he has legit No. 1 starter upside.
by blue bulldog on Feb 20, 2012 2:34 AM EST up reply actions
I certainly don't dislike Skaggs
he has the talent to win a lot of games, but of the three, he’s the most expendable. Now, as Dan suggests, he’s number three among those three, and may not be as good as Kennedy or Hudson, which pushes him back to #5. And there are a couple of others who have proven themselves at the big league level: Cahill and Collmenter the Dementor (drives batters nutz). So, Skaggs may be the victim of simply being a talented pitcher on a staff with overwhelming talent.
Where's soco?
by NASCARbernet on Feb 18, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
price though
if Skaggs is almost as good as Kennedy or Hudson by 2015, i’d rather have Skaggs and trade Kennedy or Hudson
then spend that money on less volatile assets like position players
this is one of those problems that is nice to have though. and who knows, lots can change by 2015. maybe one of IPK/Hudson/Cahill/Bauer/Skaggs gets injured, or maybe Bradley just doesn’t end up developing. 2015 is a long ways off.
by blue bulldog on Feb 18, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
Skaggs will win more games while pre arb than Bauer or Bradley
thats my bet.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
you think so?
we’ve probably had this discussion before, but i’m curious why
i like Skaggs a lot, but one legitimate concern that i’ve had with Skaggs is that his best secondary is a curveball. that’s not a good swing and miss secondary at the major league level (as opposed to a changeup or slider), and his changeup while improved, is still not a consistently plus pitch from most reports.
you can kind of see it a little already in his minor league stats, where the the percentage of his swinging strikeouts as opposed to looking strikeouts is lower than other top Southern League pitching prospects like Matt Moore, James Paxton, Rubby de la Rosa, and Arodys Vizcaino
though i mean, overall, both his strikeout rate and swinging strikeout rate are elite. just a minor nitpick.
by blue bulldog on Feb 18, 2012 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
Age 19 with those K/BB rates VERY RARE
4.12 K/BB ratio…….
4.87 at AA at age 19.
He’s a left handed Dan Haren.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
if Skaggs turns out to be a lefty Dan Haren
i’d be ecstatic
i don’t want to keep my hopes that high though
by blue bulldog on Feb 18, 2012 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
That's my ideal scenario.
Have Skaggs and Bauer develop into an above average starting pitcher quickly, which in turn forces Towers to deal one of Kennedy or Hudson for more young pitching. Preferably Kennedy…I like him as much as the next guy, but I think he might have peaked already. Plus, lefties with Hudson’s stuff are rare.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Feb 18, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Hudson is a righty :)
I assume this is a typo and you meant Skaggs
fwiw, I think Kennedy has peaked as well. I personally like Hudson’s stuff better, but he does also supposedly come with more injury risk.
In my head, I’ve been going over this dream scenario where the Rangers don’t make the playoffs next year because of crappy starting pitching, and become willing to trade either Andrus/Profar. I think with our starting pitching depth, we’d be a good match for them, and hopefully we could work something out.
by blue bulldog on Feb 18, 2012 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
Yep, typo. D'oh.
I like Hudson’s stuff over Kennedy’s as well. He seems to have the higher potential of the two, so hopefully he can harness his stuff as well as Kennedy has.
And when it comes to the Rangers, I’ll bet they will be looking to unload Andrus within the next few seasons if Profar is as good as he seems. I could see a fit, as well.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Feb 18, 2012 11:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Using the catcher as a landing strip
to keep it that way.
"Without freedom of speech I might be in the swamp" B. Dylan
HE'S BOWLING OVER THE CATCHER?
EVIL! EEEEVVVVIIIIL! MLB SHOULD BAN HIM FOR LIFE!
/drama queen Giants fan’d
Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
Poor, innocent, defenseless little catchers...
Changing planes in Acapulco, we are flying down to Rio...
by NASCARbernet on Feb 20, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah
I mean, everyone was up in arms when that happened.
And they were even MORE up in arms when Humberto Quintero got injured a few weeks later on a similar play, cuz all Catchers need to be protected, not just the well known ones.
Only not.
Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
In all fairness
I saw the Ray Fosse injury in that All-Star game and it really didn’t have to happen. It was a dirty hit by Pete Rose, spearing him in the sternum with his helmet. I would support rules regarding legal and illegal hits at the plate if they were designed to protect the players from catastrophic injury.
Changing planes in Acapulco, we are flying down to Rio...
by NASCARbernet on Feb 20, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough
I was just using this opportunity to make fun of Giant fans ;)
Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
And that's an opportunity
that should never be passed up.
Changing planes in Acapulco, we are flying down to Rio...
by NASCARbernet on Feb 20, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
One rule
or maybe a guideline to minimize catastrophic injury might be for catchers like Ray Fosse to move their ass out of the baseline. Also, your ‘remembrance’ of Rose is neither fair nor accurate. He never ‘speared’ Fosse in the sternum with his helmet. It’s a shoulder to shoulder hit…and has been for forty one years.
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how his pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
by Diamondhacks on Feb 20, 2012 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Gee thanks for the history lesson
it changes everything. Let’s do away with helmets, while we’re at it – most pitches aren’t to the head anyway.
Changing planes in Acapulco, we are flying down to Rio...
by NASCARbernet on Feb 20, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
So in other words
Your memory sucks….or you just make shit up.
LMAO
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
my favorite part of that video
is when they ask Upton about the broken bat home run, and he says that it was a pretty cool home run because it was also the day IPK got his 20th win
just remembering that on the spot, and giving a shoutout to a teammate….i thought that was pretty cool of him
A-
Because my expectations for Jup were probably a little lower than some. To be honest, I was beginning to wonder if Jup was all raw talent and no polish – that the league would adjust to him and he wouldn’t be able to make the necessary changes in his approach.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Joke’s on me. Awesome year.
Looks like people are expecting even more this year. I am too – but what I am expecting (hoping for) is a similar number of games played with similar offensive stats, and a little cleaner play in RF. To me, that would be a GREAT season. Again.
Yeah, he's come into his own
he’s the guy opposing teams will be focused on, and they will make mistakes to other hitters to keep JUp from beating them. He’s a terrific weapon.
Where's soco?
by NASCARbernet on Feb 18, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
A+
Like many other Arizona fans, I was a bit disappointed with Upton’s 2010 numbers. Solid numbers, as you guys point out, but underwhelming because we all see his immense potential. That’s what made his 2011 season all the more rewarding as D-backs fans, though not necessarily surprising. Last season was just the beginning; Upton will put together his superstar breakout performance this year, and join the ranks of the elite.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
DFA! DFA! DFA! DFA!
Okay fine, A-. I was really expecting him to get .300 AVG personally, but it was a great season, and the only way I see him going is Up-ton!
isitspringtrainingyet.com
"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." - Sir Winston Churchill
by imstillhungry95 on Feb 19, 2012 1:49 PM EST reply actions
You can't spell "Lazy"
Without an “A.” Also, here’s a fun fact for you: Justin Upton just posted the second-highest OPS+ in team history…behind Gonzo in 2001.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Feb 19, 2012 2:28 PM EST reply actions
Tony Clark
spun a 154 ops+ back in 2005. And before someone points out that Clark accomplished that in “only” 393 PAs, I’d like to add that his WPA was the highest seasonal total in club history. 4.8 wins on bref. 4.47 on fgraph. Justin’s 2011, good as it was, didnt crack the franchise top ten.
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how his pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
by Diamondhacks on Feb 19, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah,
I probably should have added, “over the course of a full season.” Still, I’d prefer a 141 OPS+ in 674 PAs to a 154 OPS+ in 393 PAs, and it’s somewhat more difficult to pull off.
However, that Tony Clark factoid would make an interesting (and almost impossible) trivia question.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Feb 19, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
WPA is not linear though
If Clark had played an additional 200 PA, he could have sucked those up, ended up with a lower OPS+, and also generated negative WPA
I’m not sure adding that his WPA was the highest seasonal total in club history really helps your overall point
by blue bulldog on Feb 19, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
Could have?
Well, sure, he could have sucked those up, like Justin could have hit better with men on base or drawn more than 50 unintentional walks to make himself as valuable as Tony Clark was in the box in 2005 :-)
I’m not predicting what might have been. I’m trying to understand what actually happened. Which batter helped his team win the most? I understand there’s a negative component to WPA and therefore net WPA can decrease, but net WPA is not a rate stat, like ops or ops+. It’s a pair of offsetting counting stats, and I guess that’s why I brought it up. To try to illustrate the cumulative and contextual value of Clark’s partial season. Too often it gets brushed aside, because of the 349 ABs, but he still “won” 4.5-4.8 games, which is 1.5-2.0 more net games than Justin “won”.
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how his pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
by Diamondhacks on Feb 19, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
It was a truly incredible season
partial or not.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
He won't
get higher than an F- from me…I was led to believe he’d hit 1.000 with a 4.000 SLG% and he’s just not cutting it…he’s an average hitter at best and he sucks at fielding and has a bajillion dollar contract and constantly shows a bad attitude all the time and we should trade him and get some use out of him…get a guy who doesn’t strike out all the time like Juan Pierre who would fit perfectly in right field…maybe we can get a reliever or two if we’re lucky
/obligatory, tired AZCentral joke is obligatory, tired
Goldy Watch: 48 games, .250/.333/.474
AAAaaaannnnNNNNNNDDDdddddddd...
he lazy.
Changing planes in Acapulco, we are flying down to Rio...
by NASCARbernet on Feb 19, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Of course,
how could I forget? I also had correct spelling, and didn’t slip in any exclamation points or racial undertones. You’ll have to excuse me, it’s spring training for me, too.
Goldy Watch: 48 games, .250/.333/.474
DFA Jdub220!
isitspringtrainingyet.com
"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." - Sir Winston Churchill
by imstillhungry95 on Feb 20, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
And I thought I was a tough grader...
Changing planes in Acapulco, we are flying down to Rio...
by NASCARbernet on Feb 20, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Not to worry...
this is Spring Training. I’m sure you’ll be on the Snakepit Roster going into the regular season. ;-)
Changing planes in Acapulco, we are flying down to Rio...
by NASCARbernet on Feb 20, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on AZ Snake Pit
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
- Giancarlo Stanton misses cutoff man, and Logan Morrison is thankful he did (Video)
- Snoop Dogg delivers memorable first pitch at U.S. Cellular Field
- The Juice: Mesoraco’s grand slam helps Reds complete four-game sweep of Braves
- Please hold: Indians’ Joe Smith jumps the gun on relief appearance
