Can Ryan Roberts Continue His Unprecedented Success?
The general theme of fellow SnakePit author kishi's Ryan Roberts Report Card post was clear: nobody expected Roberts to succeed prior to 2011, but the 30-year-old journeyman nonetheless was one of the most valuable third basemen in all of baseball. With a 107 wRC+, 3.6 fWAR, and - as noted in the Report Card - a .360/.417/.581 line in "high-leverage" situations, Roberts provided immense value to the club at just the right moments, providing an easy, effective fix to the hole provided by the unexpected struggles of Melvin Mora and the oft-injured state of Geoff Blum, players who were expected to fill the third-base gap during a rebuilding 2011 season.
However, it's now 2012, and the D-backs have a much different mindset than they did a year ago. No longer is the team hoping to simply utilize a stop-gap solution at third while hoping to rebuild after a poor year - these are the defending NL West Champions, poised to defend their division title. Needless to say, the expectations are higher, and with Roberts currently penciled in at third base on an everyday basis, he'll be called upon to continue performing at a high level in 2012. This, naturally, gives us reason to take a deeper look at Roberts' emergence. Unprecedented as Roberts' 2011 breakout was, have there been any other instances of a player emerging as an everyday contributor out-of-the-blue at age 30? How have they fared the following season?
The first job to tackle with this research is singling out a set of players whose careers resembled Roberts' in their 20's. That is, to find a set of players who received as little playing time during their 20's as Roberts did during his 20's, so that we can then search within that group to find a subset of unexpected age-30 breakouts. As usual, the heavenly database of Baseball-Reference again comes through in the clutch. Here are the parameters of our first Play Index search:
- Expansion Era (1961-Present)
- Careers from ages 20-29
- 50% of career games played at either second base or third base
- PA total 100 or greater, and PA total less than 500
As the link above shows, this gives us a total of 172 hits, though the list is far from perfect. For instance, these parameters fail to filter out young players just emerging on the scene - names like Brett Lawrie, Lonnie Chisenhall, Jason Kipnis, and Dustin Ackley, each of whom debuted in the big leagues in 2011 and all of whom have yet to turn 25, appear on the list. Thankfully, what comes next naturally removed all unwanted or unhelpful inputs in the set, as I used the saved set of 172 hits from what I labeled the "Age 20-29 2B/3B 'Journeymen'" report, and ran a second Play Index search for the age-30 seasons of all players within the previous 172-player set, and sorted the results by Baseball-Reference's Wins Above Replacement metric, rWAR.
This naturally cancels out any rising young players like the aforementioned former-prospects who have yet to reach age-30, and gives us a subset of just 29 players (from the initial 172) who made an appearance in the major leagues during their age-30 campaign. Further, of those 29 players, 22 posted rWAR figures below 0.5 in their age-30 seasons, so let's go ahead and throw them out of the reported sample (fun trivia: a couple of the names to get thrown out here are actually recognizable, including former D-backs third base coach Chip Hale and former A's/Brewers manager Ken Macha).
What's left is seven players to make legitimate contributions to MLB clubs in their age-30 seasons after years of toiling as minor-league soldiers (including another pair of recognizable names for NL West fans and/or those who saw the recent Moneyball movie). Seven players out of 172, for those wondering, is a mere 4.07% of the initial Play Index group (though, of course, some of that initial 172 will fall off the list as they age and gain more plate appearances in the big leagues throughout their 20's).
Top Age-30 Producers (min. 0.5 rWAR):
| Name | rWAR | Year | Team | GP | PA | BA | OBP | SLG | HR | ISO |
| Frank Menechino | 3.7 | 2001 | Oakland | 139 | 578 | .242 | .369 | .374 | 12 | .132 |
| Ryan Roberts | 3.4 | 2011 | Arizona | 143 | 555 | .249 | .341 | .427 | 19 | .178 |
| Joe Inglett | 2.4 | 2008 | Toronto | 109 | 385 | .297 | .355 | .407 | 3 | .110 |
| Art Howe | 2.4 | 1977 | Houston | 125 | 463 | .264 | .336 | .412 | 8 | .148 |
| Ike Brown | 1.1 | 1972 | Detroit | 51 | 101 | .250 | .376 | .357 | 2 | .107 |
| Jamey Carroll | 0.9 | 2004 | Montreal | 102 | 218 | .289 | .378 | .372 | 0 | .083 |
| Jeff Manto | 0.8 | 1995 | Baltimore | 89 | 254 | .256 | .325 | .492 | 17 | .236 |
How's that for an odd collection of baseball names? If you look only for players with >3 rWAR in their age-30 season, Roberts then becomes one of two players out of a field of 172, putting him in the top 1.16% of age-30 producers of the initial group. Still, odd or not, this list nonetheless provides us some precedent for Roberts' stellar 2011 campaign. This table, of course, leads to the obvious follow-up question: what happened at age 31?
Age-31 Production of Top Age-30 Producers:
| Name | rWAR | Year | Team | GP | PA | BA | OBP | SLG | HR | ISO |
| Frank Menechino | -0.3 | 2002 | Oakland | 38 | 154 | .205 | .312 | .326 | 3 | .121 |
| Ryan Roberts | -- | 2012 | Arizona | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- |
| Joe Inglett | -0.2 | 2009 | Toronto | 36 | 99 | .281 | .347 | .348 | 0 | .067 |
| Art Howe | 2.7 | 1978 | Houston | 119 | 461 | .293 | .343 | .436 | 7 | .143 |
| Ike Brown | 0.1 | 1973 | Detroit | 42 | 91 | .289 | .407 | .382 | 1 | .093 |
| Jamey Carroll | 0.8 | 2005 | Washington | 113 | 358 | .251 | .333 | .284 | 0 | .033 |
| Jeff Manto | -0.3 | 1996 | Boston/Seattle | 43 | 120 | .196 | .317 | .363 | 3 | .167 |
Sadly, this is the table that no D-backs fan wanted to read. However, let's see if we can't dig a bit deeper to see if we can find a way to put this data into a context that will allow for more sound conclusions.
Frank Menechino
Menechino's a fascinating story, taking one of the most tedious paths through the minor leagues I've ever seen - hope you don't mind a bit of a detour here. The lowest OBP Menechino posted during his 20's in the minor leagues at any given stop was .391 - and he hit for solid power to boot - yet after five years in the White Sox's system, he was left unprotected in the Rule 5 Draft. The A's and the Sandy Alderson/Billy Beane regime scooped him up, and after having him spend all of 1998 at Triple-A Edmonton (hitting .278/.403/.423 in 106 games) and most of 1999 at Triple-A Vancouver (hitting .309/.403/.497 in 130 games), he played 66 games for the A's in 2000, hitting .255/.345/.455. The following year, at age-30, Menechino was an on-base machine, cementing his place in the A's everyday lineup and even having a Sports Illustrated story written about him.
Menechino's age-31 season, however, was a massive drop back to earth from Menechino's breakout age-30 campaign. Menechino limped to a .205/.312/.326 line in 38 games to begin the year, and eventually found himself back at Triple-A Sacramento. What caused the decline? For starters, Menechino saw his BABIP fall from .277 in 2001 to .245 in 2002, but he also didn't help himself much, seeing his walk rate fall by 0.7%, his strikeout rate rise by 4.0%, and his ISO fall by .011. His peripherals largely recovered over the following years, but Menechino's struggles lingered long enough for him to be dealt by the A's to Toronto, where he experienced a brief career renaissance before fizzling out entirely.
Joe Inglett
Inglett wasn't left to wallow in the minors for quite as long as Menechino before being brought up to the Show, debuting with Cleveland in 2006 at age-28 after a similarly-slow ascension through the minors with phenomenal on-base percentages - though not on Menechino's level. However, while Inglett received a substantial amount of playing time in '06 for Cleveland, he didn't do much with it, hitting just .284/.332/.383. That lack of production was enough for Cleveland to send Inglett to Triple-A for the 2007 season, and Inglett struggled mightily there. Inglett's next opportunity came in 2008 with Toronto, where he mostly manned second base. He was also occasionally miscast as a corner outfielder, which ate into his value, but his 107 wRC+ that season was phenomenal for a middle infielder.
However, the following year, 2009. was far from kind to Inglett, as he was granted just 99 plate appearances before being sent back to the minor leagues. The biggest culprit was Inglett's strikeout rate, which jumped an alarming 10.0% to 21.2% in those 99 PA's, and the crumbling of his ISO, which fell to .067. Before long, Inglett was back in the minors, never to recover the 11.2% strikeout rate of his age-30 campaign, and never to keep more than a bench role in the big leagues for the rest of his career.
Art Howe
In his 20's, Howe spent five years spent mostly at Triple-A - four good, one atrocious, with the bad year appearing to significantly derail his ascension to the major leagues - as well as parts of three mediocre seasons in the majors from ages 27-29. However, Howe finally was able to establish himself as a big-league regular in 1977, playing mostly second base for the Astros with a few appearances at shortstop and third base sprinkled in. Howe's .264/.336/.412 line doesn't look particularly remarkable in today's run-producing environment, but it was good for a 107 wRC+ in the 70's, plenty good for an up-the-middle player and, oddly enough, exactly identical to Roberts' 2011 wRC+ mark.
Then, something funny happened in 1978: Howe got better. Howe's strikeout rate dipped below 10%, and he hit an impressive .293/.343/.436 for Houston, good for a 123 wRC+ and 13.7 batting runs above average. For a bit of context, Howe's 123 wRC+ as a second baseman would have only ranked behind Dustin Pedroia (134), Robinson Cano (133), Ben Zobrist (131), Ian Kinsler (128), and Rickie Weeks (127) among qualifying 2011 second basemen. Among qualifying 2011 third baseman, that 123 mark would have only trailed Evan Longoria (134), Adrian Beltre (134), Aramis Ramirez (133), Michael Young (127), and Kevin Youkilis (126). In short, if Roberts somehow makes a similar jump in 2012, he'll likely go from being very good to being a star.
Ike Brown
Brown seems to have slipped through one of the overlooked cracks in the filters, as he was primarily a second baseman/third baseman for his occasional bits of playing time during his 20's, which kept him in the initial search group, but was mostly relegated to corner outfield work by the time he hit 30. This makes him a bit of a suspicious comparison for Roberts, who does not have a corner outfielder profile. Brown could hit, but had a fairly significant platoon split and became something of a one-trick pony against right-handed pitching, with low averages and power outputs supported by a lot of walks. Brown was heavily protected from right-handed pitching, with just 174 career plate appearances against righties, compared to 470 career plate appearances versus southpaws. This further sullies any comparison to Roberts, for while Roberts also has a significant platoon split, Arizona hopes that he can be an everyday player in 2012.
Jamey Carroll
Carroll, like the many glove-heavy, power-light middle infielders in the minor leagues, had a hard time finding an opportunity in the big leagues in spite of some solid on-base numbers because of questions of how well it would translate. He finally got the opportunity with the atrocious Expos clubs of the early-2000's, and managed to reach base enough to make his quality middle-infield glove playable on a regular basis. With that opportunity, Carroll managed to make a career of being annoying to get out and playing solid defense at several difficult positions, and even netted himself a two-year, $6.75MM contract from the Twins this off-season. However, that's not to say things have always gone his way: while Carroll has stuck, he did see his wRC+ drop from 99 at age-30 to a mere 70 at age-31. Carroll was able to fall back on the value of his glove to stick in the big leagues, but whether Roberts could weather a similar drop in offensive value is a tough question to answer.
Jeff Manto
Manto reached the major leagues during his age-25 season, but after spending all of his age-27, age-28, and age-29 seasons in the minors, he re-emerged with the Orioles 1995 as a 30-year-old. He obliterated the ball for the Orioles in 89 games of action, hitting a phenomenal .256/.325/.492, but apparently didn't leave a strong enough impression on the club, as he was sold to the Yomiura Giants the following off-season. He made his way back to the states as a 31-year-old, but couldn't keep up his prolific power hitting over long stretches again and never found a solid role. Manto made three stops in the bigs in 1996, starting in Boston, getting dealt to the Mariners, then getting re-claimed by Boston off of waivers, but finished the year with a line of .196/.317/.363. That poor performance might be explained simply toils of being uprooted so many times in one year, but nonetheless, Santo was never given another significant chunk of playing time in the big leagues.
So what have we learned from these cases? Well, for one, the odds are once again stacked pretty heavily against Roberts. The case of Menechino shows that a player can truly tailspin from being a three-and-a-half-win player to below replacement level in an instant. However, history does not provide a death sentence for Roberts, and the presence of Howe as a comparable shows that there is merit in continuing to place merit in Roberts in spite of his seemingly out-of-nowhere productivity.
I want to shift course a bit now, and take a closer look at Roberts himself. What kind of patterns in his 2011 production can we see, and what do they tell us about what he might be able to contribute to the club in 2012?
First, let's take a look at one of the bigger concerns pointed out in the recent Report Card post regarding Roberts' future - his month-to-month splits in 2011. Here's a chart of Roberts' 2011 month-by-month plate appearance totals, walk rate, strikeout rate, on-base percentage, slugging percentage, isolated power, BABIP (I hesitate to list BABIP because it so often is over-analyzed, but for the sake of full disclosure, I left it in), weighted on-base average, and weighted runs created-plus:
| Month (PA) | BB% | K% | OBP | SLG | ISO | BABIP | wOBA | wRC+ |
| Mar/Apr (75) | 14.7% | 14.7% | .413 | .594 | .281 | .313 | .433 | 172 |
| May (100) | 16.0% | 17.0% | .364 | .366 | .122 | .281 | .333 | 104 |
| June (110) | 5.5% | 19.1% | .266 | .386 | .168 | .244 | .284 | 70 |
| July (78) | 11.5% | 16.7% | .359 | .507 | .232 | .275 | .363 | 125 |
| August (112) | 16.1% | 16.1% | .384 | .398 | .140 | .301 | .355 | 119 |
| Sep/Oct (80) | 7.5% | 22.5% | .266 | .370 | .164 | .245 | .279 | 67 |
The concerns centered around Roberts' unrepeatable, remarkable March and April stretch are fair - I find a scenario in which Roberts again posts a wRC+ of 172 over the opening month of the year incredibly hard to believe. However, we also need to be looking at the flip side of this. Will Roberts again go through slumps as severe as his June and September/October stretches? It doesn't seem as if the league "figured him out" as the year went on, because he was plenty successful in July and August, but yet the June and September/October stretches are absolutely horrendous.
Roberts may in fact see his numbers dip significantly in 2012, but I don't think it's because he's destined to not be able to repeat his most successful stretch from March/April while what happened over the rest of the year will be sustained. 75 plate appearances of 172 wRC+ is unsustainable, but so is a combined 190 plate appearances of 69 wRC+ production. In fact, if you take the weighted average of those two extreme samples, you get a combined wRC+ of 98 over 265 plate appearances, a mark that is significantly below his average 2011 production. In other words, as extremely hot as Roberts may have been early in the year, his cold streaks in June and September/October were far more severe. If anything, Roberts' 2011 month-to-month splits tell me that he's not destined for a disastrous 2012, as the extremes of volatility seemed to, in fact, go against him in 2011.
To switch gears with the rest of this post, I'd like to move on to how Arizona might choose to do - or what it might have already done - to protect itself in the event that Roberts experiences significant attrition. I'll center this discussion around Roberts' platoon splits. To put it succinctly, they're enormous. Here's a look at the same statistical categories as above, but looking into how he fared vs. right-handers as opposed to how he fared against southpaws:
| Split (PA) | BB% | K% | OBP | SLG | ISO | BABIP | wOBA | wRC+ |
| vs. RHP (396) | 10.4% | 19.4% | .320 | .404 | .166 | .271 | .319 | 94 |
| vs. LHP (195) | 15.7% | 13.2% | .392 | .489 | .211 | .286 | .385 | 140 |
The difference is that significant. Against right-handed pitching, Ryan Roberts was the offensive equivalent of 2011 Drew Stubbs, a toolsy but thus far average center fielder who had an exceedingly mediocre year at the plate in 2011. Against left-handed pitching, Ryan Roberts was the offensive equivalent of 2011 Justin Upton, who was tied with Alex Avila for the 19th-best wRC+ in all of baseball.
Here's what I consider to be the message we can glean from this table: even if Ryan Roberts sees his offensive performance regress to the point where he isn't an everyday player, the odds are strong that he'll still be awfully good against left-handed pitching. This brings me to my next question: what options are available to Arizona in the event that they need to platoon Roberts with someone more capable of dealing with right-handed pitching?
As it stands now, it seems that there are two candidates on the big-league roster (Ryan Wheeler remains a possibility, too) for a potential platoon with Roberts in 2012, should it become necessary: Geoff Blum and Stephen Drew. Blum's career 80 wRC+ against right-handed pitching would only make him a viable option in the event that Roberts truly collapses against right-handers, and doesn't offer room for much creativity.
Drew, on the other hand, offers a much more interesting series of scenarios. After all, Drew's status for 2012 is every bit as much in question as Roberts', as we're left to simply wait and see if Drew will be capable of manning shortstop again after his severe ankle injury. Further, Drew does have a notable platoon split in his career, with a 101 career wRC+ against right-handed pitching and an 81 career wRC+ against left-handed pitching. If the team is concerned about whether or not Drew can handle a full season's worth of starts at shortstop, the occasional day at third base covering for Roberts against a tough right-hander could allow them to get top value out of both Drew and Roberts.
After all of this manipulation, data gathering, comparable collecting, and context seeking, what do we know? Well, we know that Roberts' emergence and stellar production in 2011 came in spite of the odds being heavily stacked against him, and that the odds don't a lot better from here on out. Aside from that, though, we don't have any solid conclusion as to what to expect from Roberts in 2012, as a small sample of historical comparables has offered a wide variety of subsequent results. So, it seems that all we can do is answer the title question of this post. Can Roberts continue his unprecedented success? Yes, he can, but relying on him to do so probably isn't a safe choice without taking special care to cover his biggest weaknesses. That's an unsatisfying answer, to be sure, but when the price-tag is a mere $2.0125MM for someone as genuinely likable as Roberts, I imagine it becomes a bit more palatable for D-backs fans.
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i like utilizing platoons
i just don’t think our team’s philosophy is really one that would use platoons all that much
I think the idea of utilizing platoons is great and should work on paper.
But as one who played a year of college ball in a platoon, it sucks. Game-days feel different. Its the fact that when you aren’t playing, you get relaxed. You don’t have the same approach to warm-ups. Most players will say they need consistant at-bats to actually get in a rhythm. It took me 1, maybe 2 at-bats to finally feel good at the plate for the day even with hundreds of cuts in the cage/BP.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
Crazy as it sounds
There’s also potential for a platoon at shortstop between Drew and Bloomquist, who has immense career splits (67 wRC+ vs. RHP / 90 wRC+ vs. LHP). If Drew’s defense is impacted by his injury to the point that he’s not significantly superior to Bloomquist with the glove, it might be a good idea, at least at the start of games (until the right-handed relievers come in) to play Bloomquist against left-handed starters.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 1, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Fantastic work, Dan
…and yet I can’t help but think that with a guy like Roberts what matters most is what he brings to the team outside of the numbers. As he said last year:
“Numbers aren’t necessarily a reflection on anything. What is a reflection is what happens in the game.”
“You do it because the guy on the mound is pitching his tail off and you want to make plays for him because that’s your teammate and your friend, kind of like a brother, and you want to do everything you can for them. You want to do everything you can to help your family succeed at the end of the day.”
Roberts, along with Willie and a few other guys, all combined to make each other better than their historical records would suggest because they were emotionally motivated to do so. The numbers are a reflection of that.
All players at this level are talented and have the potential in any given situation or season to raise their level of play to some degree. With baseball’s long season that comes from being motivated to put in the extra work in game prep (physical and mental) and staying focused on the field during the grind.
Roberts is a guy who helps motivate others through his example and at the same time he feeds off what his teammates are doing. He’s a catalyst who can amplify the surrounding culture. As talented as he is, Justin Upton doesn’t have that same effect in the club house.
KT and Gibby get this and put a team together and manage with an emphasis on chemistry. They brought in guys to lead and compliment the personalities of the best players. The result was a lot of guys that out-performed their statistical expectations.
The big question, can that be repeated this season. We’ll see. There’s more talent on this team now but there’s also higher expectations.
Things like stretching the budget to bring back Joe help a lot (see Gibby’s letter here) and create the connective tissue from the top on down.
It’s hard to explain how important that is but when it’s not there, the team will almost never succeed. Look at the Red Sox last year. When it mattered most, they just didn’t seem to care.
All that said, I don’t have a ton of confidence that Roberts will have the same kind of season and I love the idea of possibly using Drew at third.
Great read, Dan. I hope folks appreciate the effort that goes into a story like this!
Twitter me at: @sethpo
Thanks for the kind words
The top-to-bottom career year performances seen on the roster strike me as too consistent to be entirely a coincidence, and the effects of Gibson and the clubhouse seem like a logical reason for at least part of that success.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 1, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve seen it in too many sports (both positive and negative) to think it’s a coincidence. It’s just really hard to explain and impossible to quantify. It’s also the case that you rarely hear about “great chemistry” on a bad team b/c being good helps build chemistry.
I know that some front offices put a lot of time into thinking about this stuff and some even have tests they use on guys. It’s a fairly untapped subject. Writers shy away from it b/c they don’t understand it but great players and good teams talk about it a lot.
Anyway, I do believe it can make some kind of marginal difference and I firmly believe that guys feel it and respond to it both good and bad. I wish there were a way to measure that.
Twitter me at: @sethpo
More or less agree
About the chemistry bit. But I would add the caveat that it’s far easier to be a sparkplug in the clubhouse and a model teammate when you’re personally doing well than when you’re struggling. I hope Roberts continues to stay hungry even if he struggles for an extended period of time.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Feb 1, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Great writeup.
I’m not expecting Roberts to duplicate his 2011 numbers this season, but I do think he will string together another solid season and do a respectable job at third base until a long term option at the position materializes.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Feb 1, 2012 12:52 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Here's the thing
if there is someone who could top his performance from last season, it’s this guy. The question will be whether or not his largish salary will take away some of that hunger to improve. Some people don’t get better when their financial needs are met and exceeded.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
I don't think that's a concern with Roberts
He’s a 31 year old journeyman with only about a year and a half of MLB service time. He got pretty lucky last year with Blum going down and Mora sucking, ok maybe that was predictable..
but yea…. I’m sure the dude has plenty of motivation and knows nothing will be handed to him.
"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung
This very well could be true
we’ll know in a couple of months…
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
First off
Great piece, Dan. You’re able to find all sorts of data that I wouldn’t even think to look for, much less actually find.
In all, I think he is going to do well next year, just not as well as last year. Still, he’ll be very serviceable at third for us next year
isitspringtrainingyet.com
Don't apologize for using BABIP Dan
It’s actually a key tool and provides clues to help analyze Roberts.
He is an extreme fly ball hitter, and as such, he is unlikely to ever have an extremely high BABIP, as most flyballs that don’t leave the yard are caught. In fact, over 86% of balls hit in the air that did not go over the fence were outs in 2011. (Thats another way of saying league avg BABIP on fly balls was .137 last year)
Thats why his 2009 was really pretty flukey, because despite having an extreme fly ball profile, he managed a .320 BABIP that year. Last year his BABIP was .275, (Despite a career high 24% line drive rate) and his career BABIP is .284
What this shows is simply put, Roberts value was created by hitting 19 homeruns and walking 66 times. He needs to continue that power surge to maintain his offensive value, because he’s probably not going to hit for very high average.
And when I look at the month to month splits, what I see is two months where he hit 5 HR and slugged over .500, and 4 months where he slugged under .400
The only way I see Roberts maintaining or improving on last year is if he can hit 18-20 homers again. If his HR total drops below 15, I’d expect a steep dropoff overall in his triple slash numbers, as I don’t see him making up for it in batting avg and doubles/triples and walks.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
While that's certainly true
I find that BABIP too often gets used hastily, as a tell-all “well, that’s why he was so bad in June!” figure when there’s really more to it than that, and when BABIP seems to not be variation-based but more than that. In the two months where Roberts posted his lowest BABIPs, he also had his highest K-Rates and lowest BB-Rates (his only BB-Rates below 10%, in fact). I find it hard to believe that his low BABIP just so happened to be when he was struggling with the entirety of his game. No, it seems that his BABIP dipped during months where he just wasn’t making good contact, wasn’t getting deep into his plate appearances, and was all-around off at the plate.
I just didn’t want that to happen when the rest of the stats present there offer plenty of reason for Roberts’ month-to-month fluctuations. The last thing I wanted to have happen was for readers to see a low BABIP and think “well, shoot, he was just getting unlucky in those months!!”
But, yes, Roberts is going to be a low BABIP guy. He needs that home run power and/or on-base capability to thrive as a big-leaguer. I think it’s more likely he keeps up the walk ability than the home run ability, personally.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 1, 2012 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
He needs to continue that power surge to maintain his offensive value, because he’s probably not going to hit for very high average.
Even if he hits homers, Roberts seems a very poor candidate to sustain his offensive value, because a) the 24% LD came out of nowhere and b) his high leverage hitting was absurd.
The silver lining is that, even into his thirties, he provides positive defensive and baserunning value (and of course, walks). That seems the more sustainable aspect of his value profile, and what he’ll need to sustain, in order to earn consistent playing time. The offensive WAR/WPA component is coming down, though. Power or not, I just dont see how he can avoid that.
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how his pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
yeah
the offensive WAR/WPA is pretty much guaranteed to come down
but as long as he can remain a 2 WAR player, i think we’ll all be pretty satisfied
The WPA is doomed
Because of the clutchiness of last year, but the WAR components aren’t really threatened by that (unless you were referring to the LD% here, which is fine).
If held back against tough right-handers, he can maintain his value on a per-plate-appearance basis, but I don’t see how he can avoid losing some of his bulk value, either.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 2, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
The one thing stats can't tell us
is the “why”- in this case, why was 2011 Roberts’ breakout year? I’d like to think, of the possible choices (such as luck, determination, “external assistance”) Roberts improved because he finally “got it”; he figured out how to put his talents to best use. The month-to-month chart shows that last year, it took the All-Star break for him to get a “second-wind”. This year, he has to figure out how to better sustain that effort over the whole season.
Yeah, what NASCARbernet said... that Latin stuff.
by TylerO on Feb 1, 2012 9:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Good points, all.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Feb 2, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
He cannot continue his unprecedented success because
it has been precedented last season;-p
I think he’ll be a solid player and more than worth what he costs.
♯♩♪ Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way ♫♬♭♮
I think he's the kind of ballplayer
who finds ways to make himself valuable, whether it’s quality hitting in important situations, making good plays in the field, or running the bases. All championship-caliber teams have a player that plays consistently above his physical talent level.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Feb 2, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Still extremely worried about the whole IF
I think Roberts’ is almost guaranteed to regress from last season (although he could regress some and still be very valuable). Drew is a injury question mark, Hill has had one good month in the last two years, and Goldie (as much as I like him) is still unproven, IMO.
I'm okay with the right side
Even when Hill was horrendous in Toronto, scouts liked him and felt he could be solid again with a move away from the pull-everything approach the Jays seem to adhere to, and he’s gotten that move in Arizona (maybe sometimes we should listen to these guys :-P). I have a good deal of confidence in Don Baylor to keep him lacing line drives rather than hoping to pull home runs all over the place. As for Goldschmidt, I think having Overbay around to cover against difficult righties will really help, and I have little concern that Goldy can demolish left-handed pitching.
The right side, though, is concerning. Third base seems set between Roberts, Blum, Wheeler, and potentially Drew, but shortstop is a question mark. Granted, we’ve known all along it would be, and sinking another multi-million dollar deal into an everyday-caliber shortstop when we’re already paying Drew $7.5MM and don’t know for sure if he can’t be that guy makes little sense.
Hey, if Boston can feel confident with Mike Aviles and Nick Punto at SS, we can be confident in Drew, Willie Bloomquist, and John McDonald at SS.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 2, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly
If Drew’s healthy and productive he’s the guy, but if he’s not, the more McDonald plays, the better, I say. We’re not exactly an offensive devoid 1-7, and as long as McDonald puts up elite level D at short, I can look more past the bad offensive numbers. Better than Willie B being mediocre at everything.
"How much money can we offer Brandon Lyon without making him suspicious"
LOL
That picture of Roberts looks so much like this shot of Albert Pujols
http://www.mancavesports.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/albert-pujols-st-louis-cardinals.jpg
HOORAY FORESHADOWING!!!
by CaptainCanuck on Feb 2, 2012 10:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I think
We can safely extrapolate from this that Roberts is going to hit like Albert Pujols this year.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Feb 2, 2012 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
Which Albert Pujols?
Will it be a version of him from an earlier season or this season, where he could, in theory be a bad player
isitspringtrainingyet.com
by imstillhungry95 on Feb 3, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
Points in RyRo's favor
As far as your comps go, I think one thing that throws them off a little is that RyRo showed in 2009 that he could play in the big leagues. He should have been up in 2010 which would have given him another year in the bigs. So technically his breakout big league year was at 30 but it actually started in 2009 and should have continued into 2010 except for our goofy FO that gave mounds of playing time to less qualified players.
In an odd way missing out on 2010 gave RyRo some perspective and made him prepare better in the off-season and not take anything for granted. I think he’ll be well-prepared this year as I imagine he’s not so oblivious to know it in his own mind he’s a candidate for regression. Whether awareness and preparation is enough to actually prevent regression is probably an unknown. But I think he’s going to be fine and any regression will be limited. I don’t see him totally cratering like some of your comps did. I also think the team will be more willing to ride out streaky months to get to the good ones. Some of your comps got off to slow starts and then were quickly relegated to the bench. I don’t see that happening with Roberts.
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Should Roberts have been up in 2010, though?
He was pretty miserable at Reno in 2010. For a place that’s so nice to hitters, he should have hit better. Not like we couldn’t have used him in 2010 if he was playing well.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 5, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions

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