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Whats the deal with Josh Collmenter ?


Josh Collmenter had an excellent Rookie season. His 3.38 ERA , (117 ERA+) were very good. His WHIP was an excellent 1.069. He did a great job at keeping runners off base.

The underlying peripherals are very interesting, and while not unique, presented a somewhat rare statistical profile last year. Specifically, his walks per 9, and his BABIP were extremely low. These two numbers were the underpinning of his success, as his HR/9 and K/9 were a little worse than league average.

  Collmenter Lge. Avg
BABIP .260 .296
BB/9 1.63 3.1
K/9 5.83 7.3
HR/9 0.99 0.90

How do the numbers in his first MLB season compare to his minor league career ?

  Majors Minors
BABIP .260 .293
BB/9 1.63 3.1
K/9 5.83 8.2
HR/9 0.99 0.60

So how rare is it for a pitcher to have this kind of BABIP and walk combo ? Pretty rare.

In 2011, there were only two pitchers to throw at least 140 IP and have a BABIP under .270 and a BB/9 under 1.70, Collmenter and Josh Tomlin.

Note: I really encourage people to follow the links and study the tables.

http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/CcdIY

In the last 20 years there have been 18 such season, (3 by Greg Maddux). Tomlin and Collmenter are the first guys to do it since 2005

http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/RTQQB

What about going forward ? How likely is it that Collmenter can continue to have a BABIP under .270 ? It's been said that he is "tough to square up". Thats certainly true to some degree. He is a fly ball pitcher, and the vast majority of the flyballs he allows were very catchable balls last years. His minor league BABIP of .293, while much higher than last years, is still better than the average minor league BABIP, which is usually higher than it is in MLB. (Better fielders in MLB of cours e).

How many pitchers in the last 20 years have thrown at least 400 IP in the majors and had a sub .270 BABIP ?

TEN PITCHERS IN 20 YEARS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SUSTAIN A SUB .270 BABIP FOR ANY REASONABLE PERIOD OF TIME

http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/B0SMT

As a side note, the guy on that list that I most liken Collmenter to is Chris Young, formerly of San Diego. He had several years where he was really effective when he could actually post up and pitch. He was tough to pick up like Josh, and also an extreme flyball pitcher. But back injuries killed his career.

So what about the walk rate ?

EIGHT PITCHERS IN 20 YEARS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SUSTAIN A BB/9 RATE UNDER 1.70 FOR ANY REASONABLE PERIOD OF TIME

http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/QPHPc

And finally, what about the combination of low BABIP and low walks ? Well, you have to bring the BABIP up to about .285 to get anyone on the list at all.

BABIP LESS than .285, BB/9 Less than 1.7

http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/Opkrv

CONCLUSION:

Well, I really don't have a hard and fast conclusion. Obviously I am prone to think that some regression to Collmenter's BABIP and Walk Rate are higly likely, or I wouldn't be posting this. The added baserunners would certainly drive up his runs allowed. On the other hand, he may continue to develop his curveball and increase his K Rate, allowing fewer balls in play, somewhat offsetting an expected regression to his BABIP. But if his BABIP goes up to say .290, which would still be better than league avg, and his BB/9 goes to 2.5, then you would be looking at about 27 more baserunners in the same 154 IP

That would mean an increase in WHIP to about 1.25. And you know what ? Thats still pretty good. As long as the HR rate doesn't spike, he can be a decent run preventer with that kind of profile.

I think some of the early projections for an ERA around league average are pretty reasonable. And who knows, maybe he can continue to throw strikes as effectively as he did last year while adding wrinkles to his arsenal. If he can do that, keeping an ERA south of 3.50 is not out of the question.

Good luck Josh. Keep throwing strikes no matter what. And keep working on that curveball.


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The Chris Young comp is as good as you'll find.

Unorthodox styles, relatively similar statistical profiles, et al.

I think the key point here is that even with an expected increase in baserunners, Collmenters numbers – I rarely use WHIP, but it’s a good proxy and very easy to employ here – still look solid.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Jan 24, 2012 11:17 AM EST reply actions  

i really like

the Doug Fister comp also

not from a mechanics standpoint, but just straight up from a statistical profile standpoint

by blue bulldog on Jan 24, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

my two cents

looking at Collmenter’s minor league stats, his BABIP is actually pretty low considering that he pitched in the Cal League and PCL. i actually think a 280 BABIP with our defense is pretty sustainable moving forward for him. we also have to remember that BABIP’s have been dropping (average BABIP was 290 last year) in recent times.

i’m more worried about the BB rate regressing a lot, because he’s never really shown an ability to limit walks in the minors before. Charles Nagy working his magic? maybe. hopefully. it does seem like our rotation in general had an emphasis on limiting walks, and that maybe part of Nagy’s overall strategy. but if Collmenter can keep his walk rate in the 2-2.5 BB/9 range, then he should remain a really effective pitcher

by blue bulldog on Jan 24, 2012 11:45 AM EST reply actions  

NL BABIP .296, not .290

http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/ZmyaZ

If the walk rate goes all the way to 3, or more, than of course he is going to be in trouble. Hence the last line of my post.

The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.

by shoewizard on Jan 24, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

i also expanded your search

to pitchers who have had a 285 BABIP and 2.5 BB/9 in the first six years of their careers, and you get a ton more pitchers that have had those types of careers

the sad part is, very few of the young pitchers on your second list http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/RTQQB made it onto that second list

granted, lots of players on your first list was pretty old when they accomplished the feat that Collmenter did

by blue bulldog on Jan 24, 2012 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

So

am I correct that you are saying you’ll think he’ll still be a very serviceable pitcher?

isitspringtrainingyet.com

by imstillhungry95 on Jan 24, 2012 2:48 PM EST reply actions  

I think there is a good chance

But has we say above, he has to keep that walk rate way down.

As my post, and Bulldog mention above, his walk rate in 154 MLB IP was HALF what it was in his minor league career. Doesn’t seem likely it’s sustainable, but if he can keep it under 2.5 he should still be serviceable, even with a regressed BABIP

If you pinned me down to a projection right now, I’d say 95-100 ERA + in 2013

The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.

by shoewizard on Jan 24, 2012 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice work, Shoe

sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur

by NASCARbernet on Jan 24, 2012 9:30 PM EST reply actions  

Collmenter works off the element of surprise

He tends to do worse against teams he’s faced before, and to a certain extent hitters he’s faced before within the game, preventing him from going deep into the games he pitched. It’s about making adjustments to his awkward arm angle during delivery, I think ultimately he’ll be better suited for a relief role unless he can effectively use his other pitches. I expect him to regress this season, though I obviously hope he doesn’t. By 2013 I hope our rotation will be deep enough so that he can move to the bullpen, even though I’m sure he doesn’t want that

by echilos on Feb 5, 2012 1:19 AM EST reply actions  

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