Should the D Backs have tried to sign Jose Reyes ?
by shoewizard on Jan 2, 2012 8:19 PM EST
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I've been criticized for criticizing many of the teams recent moves. The crux of my criticism has been that the team has signed a lot of position players and committed a lot of money, but has not improved at any STARTING positions. Specifically they have committed 35 million to 6 postion players covering 10 contract years for 2012-2013.
Where I have been challenged is to show what I would have done instead. While that is never an exact exercise to engage in, because without personally speaking to other GM's, or player's agents, I have no idea who might have been available in a trade, or which players would even consider playing for Arizona., I'm still going to give it a try
On November 3rd I wrote in the John Macdonald signing thread:
I’d still give up all the MacDonalds/ Bloomquists/Mora’s/Nady’s/Blums/Branyans/Overbays/Hills of the world to pay Jose Reyes, and then fill out the roster with the 430K per year guys we have in the system.If you have Reyes and Drew makes a comeback, you move him to 2b
Given the fact that the team is bereft of any top tier middle infield talent prospects up through the minors, they needed to go out and sign Jose Reyes. Of course it would have been risky, as the guy has had his share of injury troubles the last two years . However he is still only 29 and when healthy, is one of the most dynamic players in the game. He would immediately upgrade the team in many areas. Even while playing in only 126 games last year he managed a 5.8 WAR season last year. Reyes has 4 seasons of 5+ WAR in the last 6. Here is his PA's and WAR per season since becoming a full time player at age 22.
Year Age PA WAR
2005 22 733 1.7
2006 23 703 5.9
2007 24 765 5.4
2008 25 763 5.3
2009 26 166 0.7
2010 27 603 2.3
2011 28 586 5.8
One WAR on the FA market is worth approx 4.5 Million. Even with missing most of 2009, he has managed to put up 8.8 WAR over the last 3 seasons, which was worth just north of 39 million. Reyes has averaged 3.8 WAR per season over the last 7 seasons. Or in other words, 17.1 Million per season of value.
Reyes signed for 6 yrs, 106 million Guaranteed with the Marlins. The avg annual is 17.67 Mil per year. But it's heavily backloaded, as only 36 million is to be paid out over the first 3 years.
2012 10.0
2013 10.0
2014 16.0
2015 22.0
2016 22.0
2017 22.0
* Team has option for 22 million for 2018, or 4 million buyout
By the time you get to 2015 and beyond, MLB Salary inflation, as well as real world inflation would probably give you a WAR valuation of 5.5-6.0 Mil per WAR. That means Reyes would need to average 3.5- 4.0 WAR over the last 3 years of the contract to be worth the back loaded portion of the contract......which is unlikely. However if he averages 4 WAR per season over the first 3 Years, he out earns the contract by so much that it clearly works out. For the life of the contract, if Reyes gives your team 21 WAR, or IOW averages 3.5 WAR for the life of the contract, then he will have "earned the contract".
This does not take into account any potential tangible benefits of this signing possibly putting the team over the top in 2012-2013 while all the other top position talent is locked up and the cheap pitching talent is emerging.
Had they signed Reyes, they simply forgo signing Kubel, Hill, and Bloomquist. That saves 31 million over the next two seasons and almost pays for all of Reyes' first THREE seasons. You still sign McDonald perhaps, and when Drew comes back you play him at either 3rd or 2nd, wherever he fits best, and move Roberts to the other spot. You give the 4th outfielder spot to Cole Gillepsie to spell Parra in left, or you go and sign Reed Johnson for 1.5-2 million, which is more than he got from the Cubs.
Reyes SS
Drew 3b/2b
Upton RF
Montero C
Goldschmit 1b
Young CF
Parra LF
Roberts 2b/3b
Blanco C
Overbay 1b/PH
MacDonald SS/2b/3b
Gillespie/Reed LF/CF/RF
Blum Util/PH
Now of course come 2015, you DO have to contend with the fact that Reyes is going to get 22 million per season, but one or two deep playoff runs between 2014-2014 plus a new T.V. contract make that affordable.
A gamble ? Yes....but not as much as people think, as I think I've demonstrated above.
That is the route I would have gone with this team.
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It's a bold gamble
And I would be excited if we tried it. But I probably wouldn’t have the guts to pull the trigger on $106M for the oft-injured Reyes. But that certainly addresses what I consider to be our biggest weakness – middle IF.
Would I have gambled on Reyes?
Sure, I think it could have worked, and he’s a tremendous player when healthy. I just don’t think we had a legitimate shot to even get him. If given a similar offer from Arizona that he got from Florida, there’s no reason to believe he’d choose us. Just because we could have made an offer doesn’t mean it would have been successful.
Tomorrow is another day.
Of course....I put the caveat in the 2nd paragraph
One thing they could have done though is front load it some more to entice him.
For example 12-12-18-20-20-20 or something like that.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
I imagine
we would have had to offer significantly more to even get him to think about it.
Tomorrow is another day.
Why do you imagine that ?
The D Backs are coming off a 94 win season, have a number of resident all stars on the roster, an excellent pitching staff, and a lot more pitching talent on the way.
The Marlins on the other hand are coming off a 72 win season, and despite building a new stadium and signing Heath Bell, Mark Buerhle and Reyes, are not likely to win that division any time soon.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
And
Phoenix is a nice place to be rich.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
florida has no income tax
so to even match their offer we’d have to tack on another 11% at least.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
The Max marginal tax rate is 4.54%
http://www.tax-rates.org/Arizona/income-tax
I think Florida Property Taxes are higher than Arizona’s
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
And it's a
federal tax deduction, which would reduce that to around 3%.
"At times I think there are no words
But these to tell me what's true
There are no truths outside The Gates of Eden." B. Dylan
The big advantage that Florida (and Texas) have
are the Homestead laws, which permit individuals the ability to protect real property.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 3, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
also
the whole “no income tax” thing is like a trick
local government’s have to get their money from some place, so if they don’t get it from income, they will choose some other format, most likely property
thus even if we had to add money to match the offer, it’d be a lot less than expected just from saying “no income tax”
Sometimes
states/metro areas use sales tax and other “visitor taxes” to make up the gap. Scottsdale’s sales tax is almost 9%, Phoenix is almost 10% and California cities also have large sales taxes to make up for not being able to have large property taxes.
Tomorrow is another day.
Phoenix
hasn’t exactly been the place where free agents come knocking down the door recently, especially big name guys. If we assume winning was most important to him, he might take a look at us. But for a fairly young ballplayer choosing between Miami (young, hip, global city, friendly to Hispanics) and Phoenix (not quite as young or hip, not global, neutral at best to Hispanics), then it’s not hard to see reasons he’d choose Miami. The problem of geography doesn’t seem to exist in the NFL (non-guaranteed contracts make it so you take what you can get when you get it) but it does seem to be a growing problem in MLB and NBA. Players want to play/live in certain big, global cities, and Phoenix doesn’t get mentioned in those discussions.
Now part of this might be because Arizona GM’s recently haven’t tried to sign the big guy, and I’m substituting one cause for another, but I think the geography has at least has a little something to do with why a guy like Reyes might still choose Miami over Phoenix, assuming he had the choice.
Tomorrow is another day.
I can see this for young players especially
but for older, family-orientated players, it seems like all of them have homes in the valley someplace.
I got nothin'.
I think it might be geographically-related as well
The Marlins have other Dominican players on their roster e.g. Reyes and Bonifacio. The D-backs are likely to have none at all. On the other hand, we are very well stocked with Venezuelans – we had six on the Opening Day roster last season.
If I’d to speculate, players from the Caribbean e.g. DR, Cuba, etc. might be more likely to gravitate towards East coast teams, while Central and South American ones prefer to play in the West?
"There's one rule by which I generally run my life:
What would Mothra do?"
by Jim McLennan on Jan 3, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Miami
will suck his brains into a vortex of laziness.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 3, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
In other words
Phoenix isn’t hip hop hip. Duh. But Bcawz is exactly right in that Phoenix will appeal to mature ballplayers, which is fine with me.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 3, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
even so
at least make the offer
worst case scenario, you force Miami to pay more to get Reyes, using our offer as leverage. that hurts them as a competitor in the long run.
if you think Reyes is worth it to go after, you make him the best offer you can and then if he chooses somewhere else to play, whatever, move on with Plan B
i’m just upset that we didn’t even bother trying to go after Reyes or Rollins, or try to trade for Jed Lowrie, or other SS prospects, when we clearly know that middle infield is our biggest weakness heading into the season
by blue bulldog on Jan 2, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
Well to be fair
We don’t know WHAT they tried to do. Maybe they called up Reye agent and was told not to bother to make an offer. Thats possible. And maybe they called Cherington and were told Lowrie would cost one of our top 4 pitching prospects.
If that happened, then you can understand the "safe route’ the team chose. But there wasn’t a hint of that type of thought process anywhere, so the odds are it wasn;’t even on their radar.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
Not familiar with Lowrie
But if he is a “can’t miss” SS prospect (I know – there is no such thing in reality) I might have been willing to part with Parker for a SS instead of Cahill.
by Craig from Az on Jan 3, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
he's not a can't miss
we’d probably have needed to part with Shaw or Hernandez (Astros gave up Melancon) which may actually be an overpay, but Lowrie has some upside
Why exactly?
The Marlins aren’t the Red Sox, Yankees or Phillies.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Jan 2, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
two words
South Beach
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how a pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
With the notable exception of huggable, olive complected Russ Ortiz,
the big Diamondback free agent outlays have all been white guys over the years.
That’s not to say that some players ‘of color’, acquired via trade or draft, werent paid handsomely here or that a number of relatively cheap black and Latino FA’s werent welcomed aboard.
But for one reason or another, neither Dbacks’ regime has plucked a big expensive black or brown name off the free market to perform here – in fifteen or sixteen seasons of free agent jockeying. People can make of that what they will, but regarding Reyes, I’d simply convey my utter lack of surprise that a deal wasnt close to being reached here, despite Reyes’ apparent ‘on field’ fit in several obvious respects.
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how a pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
Misleading and inaccurate
The Diamondbacks haven’t spent money on major free agents at all recently, regardless of complexion. In fact, their largest allocation of funds for a single player since Randy Johnson came two offseasons ago, when they extended a large contract to Justin Upton, who is, in fact, black. The regrettable Byrnes contract aside, JB’s administration didn’t believe in tying up large sums of money in individual players. I strongly doubt race played a factor.
As for the Colengelo years, I’ll grant you that many of the “big-ticket” additions were white. But Tony Womack and Reggie Sanders exist as counterexamples, and even Luis Gonzalez was Cuban-American despite appearing white.
I really don’t think that the Dbacks’ FO is somehow “racist” because they could think of better things to do with $100 million+ than spending it on an injury-prone shortstop. I also hope you aren’t arguing that Phoenix won’t accept sports stars of color, because just among current athletes, Grant Hill, Larry Fitzgerald and (increasingly) Upton are evidence to the contrary.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Jan 3, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
This.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
Pointing out
that Ortiz is the only truly “expensive FA of color” in franchise history is a pretty matter of fact statement. I regret that it compelled you to defend unrelated signings – and souls of people you dont know – against accusations I didnt make.
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how a pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
However, stating
For one reason or another, neither Dbacks’ regime has plucked a big expensive black or brown name off the free market to perform here
Would seem to be making a pretty nasty implication, that race is somehow involved. If that was not your intention, please feel free to clarify why you chose to mention free agent skin color.
"There's one rule by which I generally run my life:
What would Mothra do?"
I chose to mention the skin color of our most expensive
free agent acquisitions, because it stands out from the racial portfolio of some other clubs, could be relevant to Reyes, and bears some further explanation.
Personally, I think some of it has to do with the racial/cultural makeup of Phoenix , our fan base and is probably more commercial or even subconscious than conspiratorial or vile. Clubs like LA and Seattle openly acknowledge placing extra value on Hispanic or Asian stars “for” their respective fans, so this isnt exactly earthshattering or accusatory..
And of course transacting the most lucrative contracts is an easily derailed, two way street. I brought up “South Beach”, confirming soco’s notion that modern day PHX may not be perceived as an especially desirable destination for coveted free agents of color. I could’ve just as easily brought up Joe Arpaio or the lagging local embrace of two of our best players – CY and Upton.
When a hundred million disposable dollars is at stake, myriad personal considerations are felt out and weighed from both sides, to determine “fit”…from the club side we often hear ‘character’, which is a coded cocktail of objective and subjective assessments, primarily made by middle aged white men. I know there’s no clunky “Blacks Not Allowed” or “Screw The Hispanics” policy. That doesnt make sense on any level. But I think it’s quite reasonable to assume that race and “culture” often fit in there somewhere, in subtle and sometimes meaningful ways.
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how a pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
Fine,
But extrapolating that point to imply some sort of racist agenda is misleading and irresponsible.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Jan 3, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
I think one our disconnects
is the word ‘racist’. I didnt use (or intend) that epithet, because it’s incendiary, unhelpful and tends to degrade race based dialogue and dispassionate distinctions of racial bias rather quickly :-)
Racial considerations (or biases) are all around us, imo. Traditional vestiges, up, down, reverse. It’s much less explicit compared to when I was a kid, but I think it would be a mistake to deny that it exists or influences outcomes.
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how a pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
But for one reason or another (emphasis yours), neither Dbacks’ regime has plucked a big expensive black or brown name off the free market to perform here – in fifteen or sixteen seasons of free agent jockeying.
I took this as a blatant accusation of racism on the part of the Diamondbacks’ FO, and I apologize if you had a more nuanced point than that. But I think you missed my larger point, that the reason the team hasn’t signed any latin or black major free agents is because they haven’t signed very many major free agents at all. Look at it this way: before Reyes, the Marlins hadn’t signed many major Latin free agents either. But this obviously wasn’t because they had any sort of racial bias, just that they don’t really enjoy spending money.
Also, I thought it was odd that you utterly ignored the fact that the second-largest contract in team history went to a black player.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Jan 4, 2012 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
to be fair
i don’t think he ignored it
That’s not to say that some players ‘of color’, acquired via trade or draft, werent paid handsomely here or that a number of relatively cheap black and Latino FA’s werent welcomed aboard.
when i read this i immediately took it as referring to Upton
before Reyes, the Marlins hadn’t signed many major Latin free agents either. But this obviously wasn’t because they had any sort of racial bias, just that they don’t really enjoy spending money.
I guess penury can mask underlying racial considerations, but this really underscores the larger, market-based point. The Marlins, back when they used to spend money, were positively swimming in ‘colorful’ free agents, who were often the top salaried players. Moises Alou. Bobby Bonilla. In 2003, Alex Fernandez (a free agent) was the highest paid Marlin. A few years later, Pudge Rodriguez was the highest paid. Luis Castillo, etc.
In terms of spending heavily on FAs for an expansion franchise, FLA at least generally resembled the Diamondbacks, but the specific racial composition of those salary commitments was entirely different and somewhat analogous to the respective cities’ demographics.
Was that a coincidence, free from racial considerations?
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how a pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
Where are you going with this?
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
Randy Johnson,Steve Nash,Kurt Warner, and Shane Doan
You don’t get much blacker than that my friend.
"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung
Other than 2009 but.....
He has played at least 126 games in 6 of the last 7 seasons, and even in the last two seasons where he averaged 130 games, he averaged 4.0 WAR per season.
To put that into perspective, Stephen Drew has never even had a 4 WAR season and prior to last years ankle injury had averaged 147 G per season the previous 4 years.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
reply fail
that was a reply to Craig of course.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
this is exactly what i would have done
wouldn’t even bother signing Reed either. just let Gillespie be the nominal 4th OF for now (and basically never use him) and then call up Pollock after a couple of months of AAA
I say stick with Drew/
We can still extend him you know
Do you have the guts to try to extend him now?
If you wait until after he proves he is healthy you probably won’t be able to afford him
by Craig from Az on Jan 3, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
We have to do it soon
He’s at an all time low for value right now. We could get a bargain for him if he would only agree to the extension which is something I doubt would happen
isitspringtrainingyet.com
by imstillhungry95 on Jan 3, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Nor would Boras likely even let him extend now
Seems a better risk to reprove himself this year and compete on the open market next year in the Boras mindset. Unless Drew really, REALLY wants to come back, and there’s been no signs of that, he’s gonna hit the market.
Where have you gone, Greg Colbrunn?
Good point
he’s a client of Scott Boras A. K. A. The Angel of Death when it comes to contracts that are team friendly
isitspringtrainingyet.com
by imstillhungry95 on Jan 3, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
No
2012 29 Florida Marlins $10,000,000
2013 30 Florida Marlins $10,000,000
2014 31 Florida Marlins $16,000,000
2015 32 Florida Marlins $22,000,000
2016 33 Florida Marlins $22,000,000
2017 34 Florida Marlins $22,000,000
2018 35 Florida Marlins *$22,000,000 $22M Team Option, $4M Buyout
The last three years of that contract will probably be laughably bad. We’d be paying possibly a third of our payroll to a 32-35 year old hitter that relies mostly on speed. 2011 was a career year for him and is not to be expected annually, even if he stay healthy.
"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung
The post, (and the contract) not based on 2011 WAR total
He had 5.8 WAR in 2011, but if you read the post, it only takes 3.5 WAR per year, 21 WAR for the contract to pay for itself.
Also, as pointed out, 4 seasons of 5+ out of the last 6 seasons.
Finally, I do not believe that in the years 2015-2017 the payroll will only be 66 million, so they would not be paying Reyes 1/3 of the payroll. It will be 1/4th at most, and if they get up to 100 million by 2017, which they very well could, then it will be barely more than 1/5th.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
And he would put more
fannies in the seats, improve both offense and defense, and give the team a much better shot at a championship.
The other factor that should be considered is the cost of KT’s smaller acquisition failures, which was over 12M in 2011. Eliminate them, and it almost pays for Reyes.
"At times I think there are no words
But these to tell me what's true
There are no truths outside The Gates of Eden." B. Dylan
I tend to agree with "no"
The first three years would be fine, but those last three are incredibly risky. How many teams are paying even 1/4 of their payroll to a single player? Serious case of all the eggs in one basket.
On the payroll front, we also already have to content with Justin Upton (14.25m in 2014, 14.5m in 2015), Trevor Cahill ($7.7m and $12m), so in 2015, that’s 48.5m which would be committed to just three players! With Kennedy and Hudson in arbitration by that point, it’s not hard to foresee better way of spending $22 million than on a likely declining mid-30’s player.
"There's one rule by which I generally run my life:
What would Mothra do?"
by Jim McLennan on Jan 3, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
you have to realize though
that we’re probably going to be getting a new tv deal in 2015, and payroll should jump up to well over $100 million by then
a good GM/investor plans for the future
also, Kennedy and Hudson will be traded down the line. there’s absolutely no reason not to trade them, given the depth of our minor league system for pitching
Plans for the future != Relies on the future
I think spending money before we have it would be very dangerous. Not least because if the TV companies know the team desperately needs a TV deal to meet payroll, they can take us to the cleaners as a result. There’ll be plenty of ways available to spend the money, once we actually have it…
"There's one rule by which I generally run my life:
What would Mothra do?"
Ask
Wall Street what happens when you rely on the future
isitspringtrainingyet.com
by imstillhungry95 on Jan 3, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
"there’s absolutely no reason not to trade them, given the depth of our minor league system for pitching"
They could certainly keep at least one of them.
Also doesn’t that go against the part where you said our payroll would be 100 million?
"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung
nah
if we get to a payroll of $100 million plus, which we should fairly easily when we opt out of our TV deal
i’d want us to spend about 80% of that on position players, and only about 20% of that on pitchers
I like Reyes'
Energy and Excitement.
But I like the chemistry our IF has at this point.
If you'd have been a dog.....
They would of drowned you at birth.
This.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 3, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
It would have been awesome to have Reyes in the fold.
But not at the price the Marlins had to pay. Might be another Crawford/Boston situation over there next season, for all we know. Factor in his recent injury history, and I can’t fault the front office for not pushing to sign him.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Jan 3, 2012 12:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I liked this idea when it was first discussed
And I really wish there was a universe where it could have happened.
What were the chances of him grabbing at a smaller, higher per year deal, say, maybe 3 year/$66M deal (20/22/24), giving him more money now, and another shot at FA with a big contract just into his 30’s? We don’t want the long term risk, and we have more payroll flexibility now (pre-backup signing fest and Cahill trade, neither of which likely happen if we sign Reyes) than we have had in quite some time. Fixes us now, while doesn’t handicap the future terribly.
Probably not likely to happen, but it couldn’t have hurt to toss it out there and see if he wanted the immediate payday with a shot at more just 3 years away.
Where have you gone, Greg Colbrunn?
he would only take that
if he thought he could do better than 3 years/40 million after the first deal ended
and that’s a risk i don’t think Reyes would have wanted to take
actually i don't know
if he’s reasonably healthy, he could get 3 years/40 million easily as a 32 year old in 2015
so maybe he would have taken that, if he thinks he can stay reasonably healthy over that time
Understatement of the century incoming
It really all does depend on him staying healthy(!)
At the very least, I think it’s a contract that at least gets some serious consideration, especially if he could convince himself he can get another big contract in 3 years. Whether it ultimately gets him signed or not is anyone’s guess.
Where have you gone, Greg Colbrunn?
Good discussion gang
I wanted to put it out there that there were other roads to take. When you trade Jarrod Parker for Trevor Cahill, you are in win now mode. So you better freaking win now….and winning doesn’t just mean having a decent shot to get back to the playoffs if everyone else in the NL West stands still. You need to make bold decisive moves, and yes, take risks, in order to give your team a chance to be ELITE. If you are going to make that trade, then strike while the iron is hot.
Instead, after trading away one of the top pitching prospects in baseball, we signed Jason Kubel, Willie Bloomquist, Aaron Hill, and John MacDonald. Thats 33 million on 4 guys that range between average to replacement.
Two 3 WAR players DO NOT equal one 6 WAR Player.
Four 1 WAR players DO NOT equal one 4 WAR Player.
Of course there are many good counterpoints in this discussion, not the least of which is the “South Beach” argument speculating on Reyes own preferences, (which somehow Hacks managed to twist into allegations of a racist conspiracy to keep black and hispanic free agents off the roster…..not exactly the high point of the discussion)
I will root for Kubel quite lustily, and refuse to give quarter when it comes to my right to revel in any success he has. I will be amazed by the occasional stop in the hole and spinning throw from Johnny Mac.
But at least the question has been answered. I don’t believe in being half pregnant. You either have a plan for the future and your hoard your young players until you are absolutely sure you have kept he right ones, or you start trading chips and make the right signings if you sense your moment is here.
And if you have the chance to sign the right FA without giving up your hoard of young players, (or blocking any of them) it’s a good idea to extend yourself financially a bit to do so.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
by shoewizard on Jan 3, 2012 6:59 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Overall a nice analysis
but remember, the D’backs still won based on a KT collection of misfits.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
Once in a row,
for the bronze.
"At times I think there are no words
But these to tell me what's true
There are no truths outside The Gates of Eden." B. Dylan
"Based on" or in spite of ?
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
If I were that wealthy
I would definitely buy a baseball team. But I’d probably screw it up by being too involved. The wrost thing to have is an owner who thinks he knows more than he does….and I’m pretty sure I’d fall into that category.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
The more we know,
the more we know we don’t know.
"At times I think there are no words
But these to tell me what's true
There are no truths outside The Gates of Eden." B. Dylan
Your sweeping embellishment
of what I actually said isnt much of a high point either.
— Didnt say ‘racist.’
— Didnt say ‘conspiracy’.
— Didnt say anything about “keeping races off the roster”
I did, however, bring up “South Beach”, so yer battin’ .250. ;-)
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how a pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
by Diamondhacks on Jan 3, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
You implied
And every other person reading what you wrote got the same thing out of it.
Hey….you are too good a writer for that. C’mon.
As for my B.A., even if I’m batting .250, I hit with POWER
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
From what I've seen, a lot
but all things are temporary.
"At times I think there are no words
But these to tell me what's true
There are no truths outside The Gates of Eden." B. Dylan
Inference and implication are not the same thing
Just because some people got defensive and inferred that he was claiming the club was racist doesn’t make it so. Lots of times, what the majority insists is true isn’t true at all. I got his point, even if I don’t necessarily agree with it. After all, if I were a wealthy Latino who could go wherever I wanted, I probably wouldn’t choose to come to Phoenix, but I probably wouldn’t choose to go to Miami, either. Not a whole lot of differences between Arizona and Florida. So, it’s a wash there.
by azshadowwalker on Jan 5, 2012 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
(no way jose) reyes very expensive! we are cheap!
porty99 ,,who cres,,i am me stop judging you are not god, f u all!
Though speaking of pipe dream free agent signings
Is it too early to start imagining scenarios for next offseason with essentially zero chance of happening where we move CY and sign Josh Hamilton?
Where have you gone, Greg Colbrunn?
no chance
also, Josh Hamilton belongs in LF, where there’s less chance of him getting injured
Fair enough
But with the range of Hamilton and Upton in the corners I think we could more than get by with Parra playing center. He may not have quite enough range, but he wouldn’t need it either with them flanking him.
And I know there’s no chance of it happening, I’m just dreaming to dream.
Where have you gone, Greg Colbrunn?
i love to dream too
and then Reyes signed with the Marlins and reality came crashing back :(
Parra has more than enough speed to have good range.
his problem is good instincts, which could come with experience.
"At times I think there are no words
But these to tell me what's true
There are no truths outside The Gates of Eden." B. Dylan
I think Upton would play CF
he was brought up that way and even though he’s done pretty well in RF, his range would play very well out there.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
yeah
i think Upton could probably be an average to slightly above average CF
though
as a Yahoo article pointed out
there’s a plethora of free agents who will be in the $50 million range
would have loved for us to sign someone like that, but i doubt it will be possible now, with all of our commitments to Kubel, Bloomquist, MacDonald, etc.
Ah, the old I shopped early, and often,
now the good deals are here but the budget is gone.
"At times I think there are no words
But these to tell me what's true
There are no truths outside The Gates of Eden." B. Dylan
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