SB Nation Officially Opposes SOPA
Today, a significant percentage of the Internet has gone 'dark', in protest at the SOPA and PIPA bills being pushed through our legislature, largely by special-interest groups. Sites, large and small, from Wikipedia, Reddit, Wordpress, all the way down to my own personal site, have disabled their functionality today, to give a flavor of the possible ramifications of the legislation, which provides a means for websites to be blocked from US viewers with little in the way of due process. If this sounds suspiciously close to China, and their "Great Firewall" - that's because it is.
This is badly-thought out legislation, bought and paid for by those who already dominate the media, in an attempt to secure their position. While not going dark, SB Nation and parent company Vox strongly opposes these measures: "Vox Media's opposition to SOPA is not limited to defeating one bad law grounded in an outmoded view of content; it extends to a genuine desire for copyright law and policy to strike the right balance, which must start with comprehending and embracing the the powerful and inspiring new media world in which we now live. "
4 months ago
Jim McLennan
41 comments
8 recs |
Comments
Yeah, this is messed up
It’s very well intentioned, I mean, it’s ‘supposed’ to protect copyrights, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It sets us up for major government censorship, and that is one thing that this nation does not need.
isitspringtrainingyet.com
by imstillhungry95 on Jan 18, 2012 11:16 AM EST reply actions
Very disturbing indeed.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jan 18, 2012 11:30 AM EST reply actions
Rec'd
For solidarity.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Jan 18, 2012 2:29 PM EST reply actions
I'm deeply opposed
to any law that would give the administration the ability to control the flow of information on the internet.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
New Media vs. Old Media
That’s all this is. Up to this point TV news stations have done little if any reporting on this issue because their parent companies are strong supporters of the bills. This is forcing their hands to at least report on the bills.
The internet is rendering the Old Media sources obsolete. Newspapers are reporting yesterdays news. Television is bogged down with advertisements and is subject to censorship. The only group I do side with is the movie industry, and even that is influenced by my hope at future employment in the industry.
Baseball
also has the most stupid blackout rule this side of the Middle East and Communist China.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 18, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't want to try to make this too political
But I don’t think SOPA does quite as much as what the mass majority of people do.
http://politechbot.com/docs/sopa.law.professor.letter.111511.pdf
The above link is a letter drafted by a set of intellectual property law professors about the biggest problems of SOPA. They are very anti-SOPA. The letter was signed and endorsed by over 100 professors, some of which are very respected in the field (Lessig from Harvard, and the first author himself, Lemley from Stanford for example). However, there are also plenty of other very respected professors in the field who didn’t sign (and I can only presume did not endorse) the letter. This alone tells me that the issue probably isn’t as black as white as a lot of the anti-SOPA forces are making it out to be.
Ah yes, one of the clearest signs
that someone is in law school: inferring that law school professors are unbiased and objective observers of the law and policy…
This reliance on the ‘wisdom’ (sic) of law school professors won’t last, trust me. ;-)
If they knew what they were doing, they wouldn’t have to play the Socratic game with 1Ls. In other words, in the legal profession, those that can, do (and make seven figures), those who absolutely can’t, teach first years…
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 18, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not a fan of law schools or their faculties
just in case you hadn’t noticed.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 18, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
lol
to be fair, i think i’m fortunate in that some of my law profs make seven figures and still teach 1L’s
as for the unbiased and objective observers…..i didn’t mean it that way at all. i just wanted to find out what the profs are saying, because i trust them to have actually read the legislation more than those in the main media, that way i can get an idea at what the legal issues are.
as i tried to explain below, i don’t really find the letter compelling at all.
by blue bulldog on Jan 18, 2012 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Heaven knows
the press didn’t read Obamacare, let alone members of Congress that voted on it, so I take your point.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 18, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
According to the letter, SOPA has three main problems
1) Due Process
2) National Security
3) US Image to Foreign Nations
I don’t intend to address the second issue much, because I don’t have the technological background to understand how SOPA would hurt our national security (I have no idea what DNSSEC is or how it works). I do want to point out though, that it seems rather inconceivable that our Congress would end up passing a law that hurts our national security on the eve of an election. That would seem to be a very bad public relations move.
As for the third issue, I have to admit I’m pretty down on the soft power of the US to be able to convince other nations to support free exchange of information. We’ve advocated that to China for years and there’s been no change (if anything, internet firewalling has gotten stricter over time in China). As such, I can’t see how SOPA severely hurts our ability to influence other countries, when they don’t listen to us right now.
However, the issue that I want to talk about the most, is the first one concerning due process. I feel like due process is somewhat of a magical term that is thrown around in order to make certain laws look really bad. But what exactly does this mean?
SOPA basically allows a court to issue a preliminary injunction or temporary restraining order to an internet service provider to stop recognizing a website, without notice first to the owner of the website, and without an adversarial hearing where the website owner can defend himself first. Sounds terrible right? Except it happens all the time in other fields of law. Anytime the government removes someone from receiving future disability paychecks, that removal decision is conducted without notice or hearing. For many states, if you are about to get into a lawsuit, your property can be attached (which means you can’t sell your property) without notice or hearing. And of course, businesses and people file for temporary restraining orders against each other (to prevent them from doing something that is presumed to be illegal) all the time, and restraining orders are issued without notice or hearing. The reason why this case appears significant is that the “right” that is limited isn’t just money or property, but freedom to exchange information.
Additionally, preliminary injunctions and temporary restraining orders are issued at the discretion of the judge. Just because you file a complaint, doesn’t mean the judge is going to issue the order. Also, according to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, for the judge to issue a temporary restraining order, the person who files a complaint needs to provide collateral security to compensate the other party if the temporary restraining order is wrongfully issued.
So for instance, if for some reason some idiot judge actually did issue a temporary restraining order against Google for aiding copyright infringement, and Google didn’t actually aid in copyright infringement, then the person who filed the complaint would have to pay Google all the profits it lost during the time it was temporarily restrained.
It would also of course look absolutely terrible on the judge himself (read: no chance for future promotions) if he/she wrongfully issued a restraining order against Google.
For these reasons, I think the whole “SOPA is the worst thing to ever happen to us in the internet age” is kind of overblown.
3rd issue
is a non-starter anyway. Other countries will do what they want to do. We influence insofar that it’s to their advantage. The rest is foreign aid.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 18, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
The problems run much deeper
I’d suggest doing more research than a letter by a few intellectual property law professors. Obviously, they will concentrate on the legal aspects, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
"There's one rule by which I generally run my life:
What would Mothra do?"
by Jim McLennan on Jan 18, 2012 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
Here might be a good start
http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/22/2648219/stop-online-piracy-act-sopa-what-is-it
"There's one rule by which I generally run my life:
What would Mothra do?"
by Jim McLennan on Jan 18, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
Among the major points that need clarification
how is ‘illegal’ defined?
By operation of law? Who’s law?
Is it defined in a criminal court on a case by case basis? If in a court, which court? Local? International? If criminal, does there need to be an ‘evil intent?’
There’s a lot wrong with this. Its very poorly worded.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 18, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
But the fact that there even are
Comments to the tune of “SOPA is the worst thing to ever happen to us in the internet age,” indicates the massive popular backlash that Congress would face if this bill passes. It just looks bad when the government attempts to regulate what many people consider public domain at the behest of major media and pharmaceutical corporations. In a period when public frustration with big business is very high already, I’m surprised this bill has made it as far as it has.
The issues that the letter outlines are all valid (to a greater or lesser extent) but they miss the point: people are more aggravated about what SOPA represents than what it actually is.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Jan 18, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
The 'public' isn't an altogether reliable definer of 'public domain'
Much intellectual property is indeed protected by law, but people think or believe the property to be in the public domain. It is actually an expensive burden for the owner of the property to enforce those rights, and if the owner doesn’t enforce their legal rights, they actually risk losing them, which could be an injustice.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 18, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
I wasn't taking a stance
On the issue of public domain, I was just outlining some popular issues with the law to go with the legal and practical issues that bb brought up.
Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.
by Zavada's Moustache on Jan 18, 2012 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
I'd have a lot more sympahy for intellectual property rights owners
If they weren’t continually buying expansions for the period of copyright coverage. The first copyright law in the US was for 14 years, with a right to renew for a further 14 years if the creator was still alive. I don’t really see why 28 years of rights ownership was considered grossly insufficient, but… Well, the chart below speaks for itself:
![]()
"There's one rule by which I generally run my life:
What would Mothra do?"
by Jim McLennan on Jan 18, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
this is true
there is a lot wrong with copyright as it currently stands in the US
i just don’t think the SOPA act really does much to make it worse
really, the large impact to me with this act is that a lot of people will no longer be able to stream nfl and nba games from random foreign sites, and while it sucks, i can see why companies would lobby for legislators to prevent that
by blue bulldog on Jan 18, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
well
they are a large part of why the Sonny Bono Act got passed so……
by blue bulldog on Jan 19, 2012 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
I know.
It’s not unreasonable to blame Disney, as they have a significant reason to want to hold on to their Mickey (and others) copyrights.
Tomorrow is another day.
The irony being
How many of their most famous animated films were based on stories out of the public domain, e.g. Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Mulan….
"There's one rule by which I generally run my life:
What would Mothra do?"
by Jim McLennan on Jan 19, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
yeah
actually to me, the problem isn’t so much Disney because like you said they have a significant reason to want to hold on to their copyrights. the problem is that our copyright system has completely evolved into a ridiculous monster version of what we used to have. the Sonny Bono Act is overly inclusive.
there’s a pretty compelling argument that copyrights should simply be something like 20 years + unlimited renewal. that way corporations like Disney that actually have economically valuable copyrights would still renew their copyrights (which includes the cost of the renewal fee and the hassle of getting the renewal done) whereas other less valuable copyrights would simply go into the public domain.
by blue bulldog on Jan 19, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why unlimited renewal?
Just because Disney certainly have a significant reason to want to hold on to their copyrights doesn’t mean they should be able to. To me, it should be more like drug patents: companies get to retain those for a certain limited time (at the moment, 12 years), after which they typically become generic and any company can produce them. Companies can apply for renewal if they have made significant modifications to the drug, but these are subject to review and challenge. This benefits consumers massively.
"There's one rule by which I generally run my life:
What would Mothra do?"
by Jim McLennan on Jan 19, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Strongly disagree
Property belongs to it’s owner, and the owner’s designated heirs unless they expressly alienate that property.
Public Domain is for property whose clear ownership has been lost by death without an heir, or anonymous works where ownership has not been irrefutably established. I think the Rule against Perpetuities (RAP) which governs some property law in common law states, is a foundation for grave injustice, for example.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 19, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
eh
i think property needs to be protected, but i also think at some point property should enter public domain
i do want to get rid of the Rule Against Perpetuities though, mostly because it is a headache to study for and i’m pretty sure few lawyers in America actually even use the rule haha
by blue bulldog on Jan 19, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
just for clarification
unlimited renewal doesn’t mean “renew for an unlimited time”, it simply means “you can renew as many times as you want, each time for say, a period of ten years or twenty years”
the unlimited renewal creates a basic market mechanism that allows for more valuable copyrights to stay with the holder and less valuable copyrights to go into the general public domain, where innovators have access to them (basically, people who wouldn’t be willing to pay to access the copyright because paying for it generates a negative expected value, but it might still have overall value to develop the copyright)
the reason why you want an economically valuable resource in the hands of the original creators is because they will have a greater incentive to maintain/improve on that resource than the public at large. if Mickey were simply released to the public domain, then soon you would see all kinds of random variants of Mickey around, the copyright would suffer dilution, and soon not be worth anything. that’s a wasteful use of resources. i don’t think this situation is comparable to drug patents because there really isn’t the same moral overtone that if the drug can’t be released to the public, then people will be dying.
anyway, that’s a simplified version of the explanation, which to be honest
if you are interested though, here’s the article that really expounds the thesis in depth
http://www.law.upenn.edu/fac/pwagner/ip/2003sp/downloads/landes-posner_indefinite.pdf
by blue bulldog on Jan 19, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting stuff
I was amused by
unlimited renewal doesn’t mean "renew for an unlimited time", it simply means "you can renew as many times as you want, "Seems it could mean an unlimited time if the owner wants it.
But the article linked says, “a system of indefinite renewals could have an upper bound: perhaps an initial term of 20 years and a maximum of six renewal terms of 10 years each, for a maximum duration of 100 years.” Which actually seems limited to me. I love legalese…
The overall problem is that, basically, only valueless crap would be allowed to expire and enter the public domain, once the owner had squeezed all value from it. There needs to be some counterweight, not least the item in question being available. If a book goes out of print for an extended period (not that this should be an issue these days, with print-on-demand), I think copyright should automatically lapse, this being a de facto abandonment of interest by the owner.
Still reading the article.
"There's one rule by which I generally run my life:
What would Mothra do?"
by Jim McLennan on Jan 19, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
I've
read this whole conversation, and now that I have reached the end of it, I’ve determined it was way above my pay grade
isitspringtrainingyet.com
by imstillhungry95 on Jan 20, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
[Comment removed by U.S. government]
Reporters asked the Phillies' skipper how his pitcher had managed to injure himself in his sleep. "I don’t know," Manuel said. "I didn’t sleep with him."
by Diamondhacks on Jan 18, 2012 10:11 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
rec'd
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
That is awesome
isitspringtrainingyet.com
by imstillhungry95 on Jan 19, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
The only sopa I like
comes with honey and ice cream.
"Hey, why don't you people watch the game?"-my mom after viewing a wave going around Chase Field.
by Reynolds rapper on Jan 19, 2012 2:36 AM EST reply actions



















