Fan Confidence: In Search of a 20 Game Winner
A win by itself doesn't really mean much for a pitcher. For a team it's the only result that matters, but to that starting pitcher it's the result of a lot of things the pitcher can and cannot control. No, a win by itself is not much to consider when talking about starting pitchers. A collection of wins might not have any more meaning, but there are certain historical boundaries that can be celebrated.
Ian Kennedy, the reluctant ace of the Arizona Diamondbacks, is in position to try for a 20 win season. Perhaps each of his current 17 wins don't measure his value, and perhaps it's silly to analyze him according to an arbitrary standard. This isn't about analyzing the wins, or even his value. It's acknowledging his potential to join a slowly shrinking club, one that has interesting historical meaning even if the "money value" of it has been stripped away.
I'm sure there is someone who will comment on the meaningless nature of wins. I don't think I can say this any clearer: this piece is not to celebrate the win, but to celebrate Ian Kennedy. It is to show the company he might keep by the end of the year.
Arizona has had remarkable success with 20 game winners. Since 2001, there are have been only 34 instances of a pitcher reaching the mark in a season; the Diamondbacks have had five. No other team has had as many 20 game winners in the past decade as Arizona. The next two closest franchises are Boston and New York, of course. In 2007 there was only one 20 game winner, Josh Beckett of the Red Sox, and in 2009 and 2006 there were none.
Remarkably, the first decade of the 2000's had more 20 game winners than the 90's. Here's a decade-by decade breakdown:
2001-10: 33
1991-2000: 32
1981-90: 36
1971-80: 92
1961-70: 81
1951-60: 58
1941-50: 55
1931-40: 66
1921-30: 80
1911-20: 132
1901-10: 142
Four of Arizona's 20 game winners were when we had Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling as a 1-2 combo. In 2001, both men pitched in more than 20 games in which they were awarded a win. Johnson won 21, and Schilling won 22. The next year, both men did again: Schilling won 23, and Johnson won 24.
The only other 20 game winner in the Diamondbacks' brief history was Brandon Webb in 2008. The season might no have turned out like we'd hoped, but he hurled his way to 22 wins before disappearing on a deep sea fishing boat.
Winning 20 games has long been a kind of historical benchmark for a great pitcher. In recent years the appeal of wins as an analytical tool has slid down to the point that people instantly chortle when it's mentioned. The win's time as a perpetuating historical benchmark might be almost over, anyways. With more and more specialization of pitchers, and lowered pitch counts as teams try to maximize their players existence, we may soon see a day when years pass without a 20 game winner.
To some that'll be fine, as they probably never cared for it anyways. The funny thing is that if you dig back through baseball history, you'll find that baseball front offices have always hoped to see the end of the 20 game winner, though for different reasons than stat-heads. As particularly detailed in David Halberstam's October 1964, teams would purposefully limit pitchers toward the end of the season with the hope of limiting 20 game winners. 20 game winners were paid more, so good young pitchers would see their workload disappear in August and September, simply so the front office wouldn't be on the hook to pay them more money.
Being a 20 game winner isn't always a mark of pride. The pitcher might have pitched well enough to be part of 20 winning efforts (that he was credited for) but there also have been pitchers who has managed to lose 20 the same season. Eleven different pitchers have won and lost more than 20 games in a season since 1901. None of them managed to lose more than 21, but the last to have a losing record (20-21) was Jim Scott of the White Sox in 1913. The last man to win and lose 20 was Phil Nierko in 1979. He posted a record of 21-20 for the Braves at the age of 40.
To reach 20 wins Ian Kennedy will have to be very good, and have some offense on his side. He currently sits on an NL best 17 wins. He will likely have 5 more starts. I don't know if luck will be on his side, or if he will have it in him. But it's going to be sure fun to watch.
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does anyone know the dbacks record when IPK pitches an ND?
17 and 4 is quite good, i don’t care what the other stats say (well i do, but not for the sake of this comment)… There has been a lot of Cy Young talk lately and IPK has been mentioned in the discussion. However, mainly for the sole fact that he probably won’t win. I’m not saying he should win it, I think if Kershaw keeps it up for his next 5 starts he should be the top candidate… However, IPK may not have as many strikeouts, and a slightly higher ERA and even a slightly less WAR than Kershaw and Doc, but nobody can argue his value to this team. Without IPK, they are not where they are today, and I would love to know if any statistically “bad” pitchers have ever gone 17-4 in a season.
AZ is 3-4 in Kennedy no-decisions
Daron "...the D. Baxter fan-club"
Mark: "A non-profit organization."
by Jim McLennan on Aug 30, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
And to answer your other question
One pitcher has ever got 17+ wins, with a W% as good as or better than Kennedy’s, and an ERA+ below 100. Jim Abbott of the 2001 Mariners, went 17-4 with a 4.25 ERA.
The only other pitcher with an ERA+ below 110 was Phil Niekro of the 1982 Braves (17-4, 3.61 ERA, 104 ERA+). No-one else since 1961 has been below 125. Kennedy’s ERA+ is currently 131.
Daron "...the D. Baxter fan-club"
Mark: "A non-profit organization."
by Jim McLennan on Aug 30, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
good stuff Jim.
statistical guru:) So basically, if you go 17-4, you are pretty damn good (with a few minor exceptions)… Good to know that the Dbacks have won 20 games that IPK has started, even if he has not received credit for all of the them. And there’s still more to come. It was fun to see Huddy pitch last night (in person), I have now been able to see IPK x3, Huddy, and Collmenter pitch this year. Better than last year when it seemed that every game I attended Rodrigo Lopez was on the mound.
How ironic
It was the same way for me last year
One of these days, Upton is going to pay a visit to the mound... And it ain't going to be pretty
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 30, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
And me.
How many games did Rodrigo Lopez PITCH last season?!
2007: Anybody, Anytime
2011: Justin Upton, All the Time
by Zavada's Moustache on Aug 30, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Too many?
One of these days, Upton is going to pay a visit to the mound... And it ain't going to be pretty
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 31, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, I read it.
Now do I get my prize?
It's the stuff that dreams are made of
It's the slow and steady fire
On Twitter, soco was wondering
how many people actually read the article and how many just went to the comments section. I asked if there was a prize if I actually read the article. (Don’t tell him I always read them, I still want a prize. Hopefully a My Little Pony.)
It's the stuff that dreams are made of
It's the slow and steady fire
by 4 Corners Fan on Aug 30, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I always read the article
Always interesting/enlightening
One of these days, Upton is going to pay a visit to the mound... And it ain't going to be pretty
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 30, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I try
One of these days, Upton is going to pay a visit to the mound... And it ain't going to be pretty
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 30, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
got it...
i’m behind the time times. I think I’m the only sub 30 y/o without a facebook and/or twitter account left on the planet.
I'm 15
and I don’t have a facebook or twitter account, so we aren’t alone
One of these days, Upton is going to pay a visit to the mound... And it ain't going to be pretty
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 30, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Besides, I like to razz soco at any and all opportunities.
It's the stuff that dreams are made of
It's the slow and steady fire
by 4 Corners Fan on Aug 30, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would you jump to the comments if you didn't read the article?
the comments wouldn’t make much sense…
by Craig from Az on Aug 30, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
It happens
a lot
Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
"I'm like if it fits in the oven, play ball." - soco
Promised Colin Cowgill fifteen sandwiches on 7/6/2011
I have a feeling
when it comes time for a contract extention, he’ll be in line for quite the pay raise
One of these days, Upton is going to pay a visit to the mound... And it ain't going to be pretty
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 30, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't believe in extending pitchers
too much risk. there’s just too much that can go wrong in a five year time-frame. for every durable Dan Haren, there’s a Johan Santana that just falls apart.
i’d much rather just continue to cycle through young and cheap pitching, trade pitchers away in the winter before their Arb 3 years….so on and so forth
by blue bulldog on Aug 30, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
That's not exactly
The best PR move.
Wear your own fur.
by Marc Fournier on Aug 30, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
*shrug
it may not be the best PR move, but it’s probably the smart move in terms of making sure you don’t get straddled with a terrible contract
and we can alleviate the problems by signing extensions with hitters. like Upton’s extension.
by blue bulldog on Aug 30, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I just can't imagine
Drawing many fans to games when the organization is consistently trading away quality, young pitchers, just because of the fear of an injury.
Wear your own fur.
by Marc Fournier on Aug 30, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Reading in between the lines of a W/L record
Can tell you a couple of things.
1. He has 21 decisions. This isn’t entirely his doing, of course, but it indicates a general pattern of pitching deep enough into games to get a decision. This is particularly impressive considering that the Diamondbacks have a well-deserved reputation for scoring late in games.
2. He keeps his team in ballgames. In his 28 starts, he has only two “bad” starts (i.e. WPA<-.2). For the sake of comparison, Huddy has 7 such starts, Clayton Kershaw has 6, and even Cliff Lee has 4. Right now, Ian Kennedy is one of the safest bets in baseball to keep his team in the ballgame, and there is value to that, even if it has lost some its nobility in recent years.
Also, I particularly liked your characterization of Kennedy as the “reluctant ace” of the team. I think that fits him perfectly.
2007: Anybody, Anytime
2011: Justin Upton, All the Time
by Zavada's Moustache on Aug 30, 2011 2:26 PM EDT reply actions
I loved the comments from Kennedy a couple starts ago
It was all about he had a rough night, had trouble locating. He gave up one run.
This is not going to be pretty. We're talking violence, strong language, adult content...
I know
that was awesome. If he could struggle like that every night, I would be very happy indeed
One of these days, Upton is going to pay a visit to the mound... And it ain't going to be pretty
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 30, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
it's leadership
Kennedy knows as the teams nominal ace, he has to step up and take a leadership role
that means every bad thing that he does gets magnified, and every good thing he does needs to be spoken of with humility and caveats
by blue bulldog on Aug 30, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
And that
is why I like him. He’s good, but he doesn’t actively try to shove it in your face. It just happens, the way it’s supposed to be
One of these days, Upton is going to pay a visit to the mound... And it ain't going to be pretty
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 30, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
extend him to his FA year only
then talk again later
Trevor Bauer: 14-3, 1.46 ERA, 160 1/3 IP, 243 K in UCLA, Visalia (Hi-A), and Mobile (AA)
by freeland1787 on Aug 30, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Kennedy IMO is worth a $5.5M a season right now
arbitration will unreasonably raise that #
Trevor Bauer: 14-3, 1.46 ERA, 160 1/3 IP, 243 K in UCLA, Visalia (Hi-A), and Mobile (AA)
er.....
are you talking about his market worth?
because if he were a free agent on the market, he would command a multi-year contract of somewhere between $12-15 million per year
by blue bulldog on Aug 31, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions

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