Diamondbacks 3, Phillies 2: The Lyle Overbay Show
Record: 69-53 Pace: 92-70 Change on last season: +21
It's a shame that SBN doesn't allow formatting in its story titles, otherwise the title of this recap would be: The Roy Halladay Lyle Overbay Show. Seriously. I was all ready to call this "The Roy Halladay Show", until the Dbacks came back to shock the baseball world in the top of the 9th.
Obviously, you've seen the score, so I'm not spoiling anything by telling you upfront that the Diamondbacks won. What's fascinating is not only THAT they did it, but HOW they did it.
Details after the jump!
As noted, originally, this recap was going to be called The Roy Halladay Show, and it was going to involve me copying and pasting inning descriptions. Something like this:
First Justin Upton struck out looking, then Miguel Montero grounded out, then Chris Young struck out swinging.
No, seriously. That's actually what happened in the top of the 6th inning, and nobody would have faulted you for believing it. Until the 9th, that is.
Before we get there, let's briefly go over what happened over the rest of the game.
Nothing against Roy Halladay. He may not have been at his very sharpest, but he WAS fantastic. He scattered 8 hits and an intentional walk over a 9 inning complete game, 7 of those being singles, and struck out 14. Yes, 14. That's ridiculous. Doc used 122 pitches to do it. Josh Collmenter, for his part, probably had one of the best outings of his young career, too. Last time out, you may recall, Collmenter won by throwing 7 innings of 2 run ball against the Astros, with 4 hits, 5 strikeouts and a walk. This time out, he didn't get the decision, but went 6 2/3 innings, gave up 2 runs against a much stronger offense, allowing 8 hits and 2 walks, 3 for extra bases. Josh beat his previous career high for Ks, however, striking out 8 Phillies. (Previous high: 7 against the Brewers)
In the top of the 2nd, Chris Young singled and stole second, before Lyle Overbay, in his 2nd plate appearance of the year with the team, laced a line drive single to RF to put the Dbacks on top 1-0, but then Sean Burroughs happened, (Seriously...seemed like Burroughs happened RIGHT AFTER Overbay every single time...hmmm) and that was all the scoring success the Diamondbacks would have until the 9th.
Not only did Roy Halladay pitch a pretty impressive game from the mound, but he also reached base twice on a double and a single. The latter led off the bottom of the 3rd, and after a Jimmy Rollins strikeout and Shane Victorino flyout, the always-dangerous Chase Utley (3 hits tonight) doubled, while Ryan Howard walked to load the bases. Unfazed, Collmenter struck out Hunter Pence on 11 pitches to end the threat. Despite running up Josh's pitch count during that appearance, Pence was particularly tormented by Collmenter tonight, with 3 of his 8 strikeouts. Combined with Collmenter's start against the Astros on May 29th, Pence is now 1-6 with 4 Ks against Josh this year.
Josh wasn't as lucky in the 5th. After Doc grounded out, Rollins squared him up for a line drive single before Victorino hit one out of the park to give the Phillies a 2-1 lead. The way Halladay was pitching, it might as well have been a 10-1 lead.
That's because Halladay was in the midst of setting down 12 straight Diamondbacks, 8 of them via strikeout. After a Gerardo Parra leadoff single in the 5th, Halladay didn't yield another baserunner until the 9th, striking out the side in the 5th and 8th. This included a Kelly Johnson pinch hit appearance, coming in place of Joe Paterson, who relieved Collmenter to get Chase Utley out with 2 down, after Halladay's leadoff double. Truly a LOOGY, that Joe Paterson, though one expects Gibson would've kept him in to face Howard had Utley reached.
Instead, after KJ's PK, Bryan Shaw came in to face the Phillies in the 8th. Howard grounded out, but Hunter Pence, glad to finally be facing Not Josh Collmenter, singled. No matter, Raul Ibanez did a very Raul Ibanez thing and grounded into a double play.
Having thrown 100 pitches, with a 2-1 lead, and without having allowed a baserunner since the first batter in the 5th, Charlie Manuel gave Halladay his full confidence, and let him go for the complete game. FanGraphs gave the Phillies an 84.2% win chance. More damning, not only had the Phillies not lost a Halladay start at home since April 29th, but they were exactly 66-1 when leading after 8 innings, and had gone 22-11 in 1 run games. The Dbacks, on the other hand, despite a propensity for comeback victories, came in with a 2-47 record when down after 8 innings.
Make those 66-2, 22-12, and 3-47. You see, along comes the 9th, and a funny thing happens as "Halladay goes for 16", as the SportsCenter headline still read after the game. MVP candidate Justin Upton led off with a single, his only hit of the game, and running his current streak to seven games. Upton's single came on an opposite-field bloop to right field on a pitch on the outside part of the plate. After him, Miguel Montero did the same, singling to right field to bring up. Chris Young was asked to bunt, which was a little odd with nobody out, since he may be slumping, but he rarely hits into double plays. CY bunted foul three straight times for a frustrating strike out. After CY's K, Gibson sent in Collin Cowgill to pinch run for Miggy, and up came, once again, Lyle Overbay.
Despite having closer Ryan Madson up in the bullpen, but more importantly, lefty Antonio Bastardo, Manuel opted, instead, to trust his ace, despite Overbay already having an two singles in the game against his former Blue Jays teammate. Overbay didn't mess around, shooting a line drive to right center on the first pitch he saw, over the head of Victorino.
Oh, the joy! Upton came flying around to score easily, while Cowgill had to dive for the plate around the reach of Carlos Ruiz, reaching home at about the same time as the ball. BOOM! 2-1, Diamondbacks.
Though Sean Burroughs happened, (a popup to Howard with Overbay still at 3rd and 1 out) Gerardo Parra was intentionally walked and stole 2nd, but Paul Goldschmidt pinch struck out looking, Halladay's 14th and final victim of the day.
So, a 3-2 lead over the probable Cy Young winner, in his home park, in the bottom of the 9th. Time for The Easy Button. JJ Putz came on to close it out, luckily facing the bottom of the Phillies' order. Carlos Ruiz worked a leadoff walk, and Michael Martinez bunted to send him to 2nd. Putz was done putzing around, though, striking out pinch hitter Ross Gload (who was 1-2 with 2 walks vs. Putz in his career) and Rollins to end the game and seal the shocking comeback victory.
Not that comeback victories should be much of a shock anymore with this team. This was their 35th, which is good for first in the Major Leagues by 3. The Diamondbacks are also now 3-1 against the Phillies this year, and a season split at worst is nothing to be ashamed of against the team with the best record in baseball. It may be a small sample anomaly, of course, but there are only two teams in the NL against whom the Phillies have only won a single game this year: The Dbacks and the Brewers, both of whom might face the Phillies in the postseason.
Halladay's 7th complete game of the year also came with some shenanigans on the basepaths. CY snatched a pivotal base ahead of Overbay's first RBI, and Parra stole two as well. Halladay was also called for a balk in the 4th.
In Lyle Overbay's 100th game for the team that originally drafted him in 1999, he also had his 73rd, 74th, and 75th hits, his 21st double, and just his 30th, 31st and 32nd RBI. I think he'd tell you these were easily the biggest. He's also now 6 for 14 in his career against Roy Halladay.

Superman: Lyle Overbay, +67.0%
Batman: JJ Putz, +19.4%
The Green Lantern: Miguel Montero, +15.8%
Lex Luthor: Chris Young, -16.9%
Sean Burroughs: Sean Burroughs, -14.6%
The Riddler: Willie Bloomquist, -10.5%
One of the biggest wins of the year came complete with one of the biggest gameday threads of the year. In what must be near-records, 64 total commenters combined for 1612 total comments. Leading all was imstillhungry with 172, with SongBird in second place at 112. BulldogsNotZags did not join them in the century club but his 98 comments was good for 3rd. Also present were Clefo, diamondfacts, andrewryno, Bcawz, Zavada's Moustache, kishi, Juptoncredible, Backin'the'Backs, blank_38, iTalk2Cornfields, JoeStock, asteroid, Jim, venomfan, Baja F1, SenSurround, AZDBACKR, txzona, me, Jdub220, njjohn, Gildo, CaptainCanuck, blue bulldog, Rockkstarr12, hotclaws, The so-called Beautiful, TinySarabia, Craig from Az, Brian MacKinney, JuicyJuice, emilylovesthedbacks, NASCARbernet, 4 Corners Fan, Turambar, luckycc, marionette, sonic barracuda, dbacks25, Muu, LiamNeeson, rfffr, BattleMoses, Baseballdad, Scottyyy, DiamondbacksWIn, Skii, GuruB, iheartdbacks, YoungCardsFanatic, The Goat, oldspartan, Husk, Torpedosneak, Wailord, snakecharmer, Coach Cleats, themysticalone, mrssoco, Stile4aly, bbtng. Welcome to the Snakepit to bbtng, Juptoncredible, JuicyJuice, and anyone else I might've missed!
Two comments of the night. This one:
a good day?
A good day involves a trip to Baskin Robbins for a single dip. We just dunked our heads in the fudge vat.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
by njjohn on Aug 16, 2011 7:13 PM MST
...for doing an excellent job expressing how most of us felt. That, students, is a good example of a metaphor.
This one by kishi for being prophetic (referring to a post being delayed in the GDT):
Eh
Still faster than a DBacksSkins recap.
"Never ignore a coincidence. Unless you're busy, in which case always ignore a coincidence."
by kishi on Aug 16, 2011 5:21 PM MST
I trust no explanation is needed.
The Giants lost to the Braves tonight, 2-1 in the 11th, so our lead in the NL West is now up to 3.5 games. In fact, Baseball Prospectus has gone so far as to lower the Giants' odds at winning the division to 71%. Yay progress!
As Jim pointed out in the Gameday Thread (and Eric Stephen on Twitter before him), tonight was only the second time in the last 5 years that a pitcher had struck out 14+ and lost. The first was Cliff Lee, who fanned 16 Braves in May but lost 5-0. Cliff Lee happens to be our opponent tomorrow. 12-7 with a 2.83 ERA are good marks, but one of those 7 came against the Diamondbacks in a 4-0 decision on April 25th. Will the team repeat their performance and win again tomorrow night? Find out tomorrow! Or don't. It's no skin off my nose.
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Comments
Winning,
You are doing it right.
I survived the 2004 & 2010 seasons.
Goldschmidt is AWESOME
by dbacks25 on Aug 17, 2011 2:04 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
LOL and Sportscenter's highlight title on the sidescreen rundown is
“Halladay Career High”
Also the Sean Burroughs: Sean Burroughs (-14.6%) made me laugh out loud.
"First of all, Life Sucks. Alright? Period. Done deal. You got it? There's your lesson. Enjoy it."-Coach McGuirk, Home Movies.
by BulldogsNotZags on Aug 17, 2011 2:05 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The second part
IS yes.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Aug 17, 2011 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, Sean Burroughs! He did make me crack up with the clawing back visual against the Mets and it went unspoken. He looked like a Vegas mime I saw a couple years ago spray painted in silver.
by Augdogs on Aug 17, 2011 4:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sean Burroughs: Sean Burroughs = hilarious
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
Sorry for taking so long, folks.
You probably expected this recap to be SUPER AWESOME ZOMG WIN, but nope.
Goldschmidt happens.
No prob
Luckily, I got SnakeSounds up before decamping for the movie and mango sorbet, so that gave the chatterers somewhere. There’s 50 comments in there instead. ;-)
Daron "...the D. Baxter fan-club"
Mark: "A non-profit organization."
by Jim McLennan on Aug 17, 2011 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you!
it gave me something to do for awhile
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Collmenter's efforts need to be hi-lighted
Dude was killer.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Aug 17, 2011 2:06 AM EDT reply actions
I mentioned it
as being “probably the best of his young career”, but it kinda got lost in the Vietnam Memorial-sized wall of text that is this recap.
Goldschmidt happens.
I understand
It’s what the comments section is for. :-)
For a guy whose job was supposedly “on the line” two starts ago (haw hee haw hee haw), he’s turned up aces since.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Aug 17, 2011 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions
He's still not showing me enough
The differences between the 2nd and 3rd time through the order still seem a lot more pronounced for him than for other starting pitchers. Again, he can probably be an alright back-end starter, but is that the best use of our resources? Particularly with high-upside arms in the system coming up in the near future?
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not looking that far ahead
I just want a guy we can rely on this year. 8:1 K:BB ratio is plenty good.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Aug 17, 2011 11:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well,
His overall K:BB this season has been pretty good as well.
"Not a whit. We defy augury"
-Hamlet (Act V, Sc. II)
by Zavada's Moustache on Aug 17, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
True.
That’s the way he needs to pitch to be successful.
The K totals in general aren’t fantastic, but if he keeps refusing to walk people…
Counterpoint: Zach Duke
Goldschmidt happens.
So, Collmenter MUST strike out people
but Daniel Hudson gets a pass? I don’t know.
Collmenter was very effective yesterday. I know this business about second and third time through the lineup, but Halladay was subject to the same effect, and I don’t hear anyone whining about what a sucky pitcher he is, et cetera.
"The wise writer, I think, writes for the youth of his own generation, the critic of the next and the schoolmasters of ever afterward." F. Scott Fitzgerald.
by NASCARbernet on Aug 17, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
well
Halladay was lights out third time through the lineup
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
He was pretty great
Ran into some trouble early on, but worked out of it, and if it weren’t for one pitch that Victorino jumped on, we might not have needed a ninth inning comeback.
"Never ignore a coincidence. Unless you're busy, in which case always ignore a coincidence."
From Nick P's recap:
Taking the blame: Right-hander Josh Collmenter said he was rushing when he threw a change-up to Shane Victorino in the fifth inning, a pitch that stayed up and that Victorino slammed into the right-field seats.
“I’ll take some responsibility for the home run to Victorino,” manager Kirk Gibson said. “I was making him throw over a lot.”
Gibson was trying to keep Jimmy Rollins close at first base.
“I was trying to be a little too quick with the change-up, and I just floated it up there,” Collmenter said. “I have to be better at getting that ball down.”
Goldschmidt happens.
I didn't get to listen to much of the game.....
damn work.
But I listened to the Pence at bat. I was shocked when I saw just how off balance and out front Pence was on the changeup that got the K when I saw the highlight.
And I listened to the 9th. So I got the best parts of the game.
As I said at the bullpen……….
I BELIEVE!! I BELIEVE !!
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
by shoewizard on Aug 17, 2011 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
still think Pence
just messed up himself on that strikeout. he had fouled off plenty of better changeups, and it looked a lot more to me like after the count ran 3-2, he just got excited and forgot about plate discipline
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
He sure did.
That curve ball on 3-2 didn’t even start in the zone, and ended several feet out of the zone.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
Wanted
to be a hero to impress his new team?
I dunno, I was still at work then.
Goldschmidt happens.
I actually
thought about making one of the negative dudes be “Aquaman”. Or else someone who was basically neutral.
Goldschmidt happens.
Eh...
probably still better than “Random-ass Politically Correct Apache Chief”.
Think that was his name, anyway.
Goldschmidt happens.
apache chief can become giant though.
blue beetle is much worse
Thank you
for quoting from the Baseballavad Gita…
"The wise writer, I think, writes for the youth of his own generation, the critic of the next and the schoolmasters of ever afterward." F. Scott Fitzgerald.
First time I looked at the graph
I thought it said “LOLverbay Double”.
I think I’m spending too much time on the internet.
"Never ignore a coincidence. Unless you're busy, in which case always ignore a coincidence."
by kishi on Aug 17, 2011 2:14 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I almost saw it too
Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/ Arizona Diamondbacks/Phoenix Coyotes/ Arizona Rattlers/Chicago Bears fan
[I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
I have three letters for Lyle Overbay tonight:
M. V. P.
Fine, that maybe be a bit of over kill, but he had a great night tonight, and once again proved why we should never, ever doubt one of Gibby’s lineups. Ever. I think he must have St. Penelope fill out the lineups for him, because thats the only way I can think of that these things actually work most of the time. Can’t argue with SEVEN in a row. Going for a season high tommorow on the Worldwide Leader in Arizona Hating. Should be fun!
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 2:18 AM EDT reply actions
Just saw this intro for Buster Onley's blog
Buster Olney writes that the Giants will have to draw on last year’s experience to turn things around and win the NL West. It won’t be easy, however, with the Diamondbacks playing as well as they are.
I like how that sounds
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 2:20 AM EDT reply actions
Unfortunately for them,
“experience” is no substitute for “luck”.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I know
that’s one of the things I like about those two sentances
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Never, Never, Never Count this team out!!!!
This was the most impressive victory of the season! They had absolutely no business winning this game! That Philly crowd was SHOCKED to see us steal another game! If they can come back and beat Halladay at his best at home they can beat anyone. This team makes big plays when they need to just like their manager. They are Amazing!!!
by Gilbertsportsfan on Aug 17, 2011 2:22 AM EDT reply actions
It was so cool
Up until the ninth inning, the crowed at CBP was so loud, and then it went silent. I didn’t know that a sell-out could sound so much like a cemetary. I liked it
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions
What I'm finding to be particularly impressive
is how quickly the Giants have found themselves four games back in the loss column.
"The wise writer, I think, writes for the youth of his own generation, the critic of the next and the schoolmasters of ever afterward." F. Scott Fitzgerald.
by NASCARbernet on Aug 17, 2011 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions
It is
impressive in a 2008 Dbacks kind of way. Hope we never get to find out what that’s like again
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
2007 and 2008 we did not have as good of an offense as we have now and we didn't
have the MVP candidate Justin Upton that we have now. This team lives for big moments and produces when it counts.
by Gilbertsportsfan on Aug 17, 2011 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions
The d-backs have definitely provided themselves with some breathing room but they
will need this breathing room because they have 5 tough games left against Philly and the Braves and the Giants have a very easy schedule after their done with the Braves. Hopefully, the Braves can take at least 1 more from the Giants.
by Gilbertsportsfan on Aug 17, 2011 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I almost feel sorry for them
The amount of injuries is amazing. Amazing that they are even still in the hunt for the playoffs. That is what good pitching will do for you.
Injuries are part of the game, just look at the D-backs. But the difference is when
the D-backs have an injured player they find someone like Overbay that immediately produces when the Giants don’t.
by Gilbertsportsfan on Aug 17, 2011 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Another difference is
one of our injuries happened to a useless player. :)
by CaptainCanuck on Aug 17, 2011 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup
Just saying why injuries haven’t really taken a big hit on us.
by CaptainCanuck on Aug 17, 2011 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions
well the organizational depth
may have something to do with it, lets be honest, look at the steady stream of folks that have been getting their shots from the minors for the club. We don’t take 1B into account because it wasn’t producing much for us to begin with, but its not for lack of trying to find a piece that will work offensively and defensively. Look at the bullpen and the back end of the rotation, how many guys have started for us? Collmenter, Duke, Enright, Gallaraga, Owings and now Miley. Look at all of the bp arms that have been test driven….While not every move has been great (Veteran Presence!), at least they try something, give it a chance and if not, move on to the next option.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
i think it'd be hard to argue
that Drew → Bloomquist downgrade
is worse than Posey → Whiteside downgrade
and like i’ve said previously….injury to Nady somewhat makes our team better haha. on the other hand, the Giants have had Pablo on the DL for an extended period of time, they’ve had Freddy Sanchez injured for like…forever…..they now have Beltran injured….
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
By the numbers at the plate
Bloomquist → Whiteside is a downgrade this year…
"Never ignore a coincidence. Unless you're busy, in which case always ignore a coincidence."
Drew
still wasn’t really performing as desired when he went down, though.
Would be nice to have another decent lefty, however.
Goldschmidt happens.
This
the Giants were definitely the team to beat in the NL West preseason.
Through a combination of bad luck (injuries to star players), bad management (the Brandon Belt situation), and regression (Huff and Torres falling back down to Earth) and overperformance from us, they’ve managed to completely lose their advantage.
Their pitching is still unfairly good though :(
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions
It'll be their turn to whine about pitching unfairness
in pretty darned short order. Enjoy.
"The wise writer, I think, writes for the youth of his own generation, the critic of the next and the schoolmasters of ever afterward." F. Scott Fitzgerald.
by NASCARbernet on Aug 17, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
They
were actually talking briefly about how much Bauer and Skaggs scares them on MCC yesterday I think it was
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
i would be really surprised
if by year’s end, Bauer and Skaggs were not both Top 15 prospects in baseball
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
When they
give back their 2010 World Series trophy that came about through luck, then they can have my pity for their unluck.
Time to pay the piper. They’d been living off borrowed time since the beginning of 2010.
Goldschmidt happens.
blame their FO
they’ve had ample time to address their woes, they did virtually nothing about their C situation, they’ve had their best position prospect garnering frequent flier miles between AAA and the bigs and are only just now inserting him into the lineup on a daily basis. They could have flipped Baum or ZOMGSanchez for some quality help for the IF or the OF and called up Wheeler but instead they traded him to rent Beltran for a couple of months. Maybe that will all work out for them, but their crisis management has been woeful in comparison to our FO imho.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
Also about Beltran
they traded a top pitching prospect to get a rental player who has been notorious the past couple years for never being healthy. What did they think was going to happen?
Tomorrow is another day.
That's
his point, yes.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
was just validating...
i heard an announcer mention it but never saw anything that said otherwise. is he on the 15 day?
Yup.
I don’t believe he’d played over the last 7 or 8 days, though, so he could be back in a week at the soonest.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup.
It was retroactive to August 7th, so he could be back on the 22nd, if he’s better.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea WTF they have been doing with Belt
That hasn’t made any sense to me.
And the Wheeler for Beltran thing seemed kind of suspect to me when it happened. However, if getting Beltran had actually helped them….. Shrug. I don’t know. I know I am very glad our team didn’t trade away its top prospects for this kind of deal. I would never have wanted to see Skaggs or Parker get dealt for the likes of Beltran.
Giants fans/people
claim they gave up Wheeler for Beltran because ZOMG, when you have a chance to repeat, you have to go all in!!!!!!!!
But, they really didn’t? They just sort of traded away the future and got middling returns, without reliably addressing their biggest holes?
Goldschmidt happens.
Brewers
went all in. They’re the example of trading the future for the present, and it’s paying off so far.
Tomorrow is another day.
That was
my thought, yeah. The team that REALLY went all in was the Brewers.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
i disagree with this assessment
the Brewers are dumb
basically, you should go “all-in” (whatever that means in this context) when you have the highest probability of success. the Giants had an over 50% chance at making the playoffs at the time of the Beltran trade. the Brewers traded away all of their future pieces when they had at best a 30% chance preseason.
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you're both right.
I think they both went all in. I understand why the Brewers did it with Fielder about to leave town. I understand why the Giants did it with such a high probability of the playoffs.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
The Giants
really didn’t, though. They simply overpaid.
It’s their fans who claim they went all in.
Goldschmidt happens.
Um
we’re talking about the action of going all-in, not whether it should happen or not. We’re describing an action, not making a value statement.
Tomorrow is another day.
it was more in response to your post
“They’re the example of trading the future for the present, and it’s paying off so far” makes it seem like you were making a value statement that what the Brewers did made rational-choice sense at the time.
Just providing the counter-argument to that.
On the other hand, if you just meant literally, they traded for the future, and it is paying off so far, well…isn’t that exactly what the Giants did? except it hasn’t paid off yet?
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The Giants
made one move, so it’s barely “all-in.”
The Brewers made quite a few moves not only before the season, but also before the trade deadline. That’s all-in.
I also believe it’s paying off so far, but the key part is “so far.” We won’t know how well unless they win it all. But my point wasn’t necessarily to talk about whether I think it’s a good strategy.
Tomorrow is another day.
+1
Describing their actions and explaining their reasoning isn’t the same as justifying it. Having been burned by the lack of post-2007 success, I understand the risks of going all in…
Goldschmidt happens.
fair enough
i would like to point out, that rigorously speaking, it’s not that the Giants only made one move, and that the Brewers made a lot of moves. i assume by “all-in” you just mean they gave up a lot of expected future value in order to benefit from present value.
arguably, the Brewers gave up more expected future value than the Giants did (Brewers essentially gave up Alcides Escobar, and Jake Odorizzi….notice I didn’t include Brett Lawrie, because Brett Lawrie doesn’t have a position on that roster so he doesn’t have future value aside from future trade value….on the other hand the Giants “only” gave up Wheeler). but i think there’s a fair argument to be made that the Giants were also simply more limited by the market. winter trade market is a lot more expansive (more supply and more demand) than the summer trade market. that is pretty much an inherent constraint on their ability to go “all-in”.
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I does
kinda seem like that, BB.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it probably wasn't very smart
However, it seems to be working, no?
30% chance preseason?
Based on what?
Brewers figured this was the best shot they’d have in awhile. They’re probably losing Fielder this offseason, so they figured to put all their eggs in this season.
Goldschmidt happens.
30% chance
based on the fact that AFTER the moves, they were only about as equally likely as the Reds and Cardinals to make the playoffs
i don’t think it’s really that much of a debatable point that the Giants had better odds of making the postseason at the trade deadline this year, than the Brewers had at making it preseason
on the other hand, it’s possible to make the argument, that you seem to be suggesting, that the 30% chance is the best chance within the foreseeable future, for the Brewers to make the playoffs. i dunno. it’s debatable.
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd
definitely say that this was the best chance they’d have HAD for awhile, but I’m also not so sure they only had a 30% chance after the moves.
Goldschmidt happens.
i also think we're taking a hindsight view of this too much
Beltran isn’t a middling return. he was hitting like Justin Upton before the trade happened. it just hasn’t happened in the small sample size since they made the trade.
their biggest hole is simply just offense. i’m not sure they would be able to trade for Catcher A who is X amount better than Posey, and X amount is greater than or equal to Beltran minus previous right fielder (I guess, Cody Ross?)
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
It should be
Beltran knocking Rowand or someone out of the lineup, but it hadn’t been, yet.
The thing is, do you REALLY think a 34 year old Beltran is going to KEEP posting what’s more or less equal to the best season of his career with his age 29 season? Even ignoring the injury concerns. And trading for Beltran doesn’t mean they couldn’t have ALSO traded for a catcher, as most people expected.
Goldschmidt happens.
you're setting up a strawman
i don’t need to think that Beltran is going to keep posting up those numbers. i just have to believe that the expected value of what Beltran is going to post up is much greater than the opportunity cost of who he is replacing, whereas whatever catcher they presumably could have traded for would have a lower expected value over the opportunity cost that is Eli Whiteside
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
How
is it a straw man? You made the claim that Beltran had been hitting like Upton before the trade. My point was that he wasn’t going to KEEP hitting like that, even WITHOUT injury, but that they still paid like he was going to. It’s like giving up a Dan Haren-type package for Ryan Vogelsong over the offseason.
And that still doesn’t mean they couldn’t have done both.
Goldschmidt happens.
my argument was this
their biggest hole is simply just offense. i’m not sure they would be able to trade for Catcher A who is X amount better than Posey, and X amount is greater than or equal to Beltran minus previous right fielder (I guess, Cody Ross?)
it was in response to your argument that they didn’t reliably address their biggest holes. also, i just realized that i mistyped my argument, and meant Whiteside when i wrote Posey.
i probably didn’t make it clear enough in the original argument, but i tried to expound, that all you really have to care about (to the extent that you only care about, and are arguing about, filling holes on the SF roster) is what you think expected value of Beltran minus worst SF outfielder is
as for whether the deal was a good one you would have to consider how much Beltran increases your probability of making it to the playoffs/how much he increases your probability of going deep into the playoffs…..how much added revenue that means to the club….how much pure utility you get from making it to the postseason and winning postseason games. i think i was among the first of the loud voices that said this deal was great for the Dbacks because it was a huge overpay by the Giants.
but all of that doesn’t mean the Giants didn’t attempt to fill their holes to the best of their abilities.
And trading for Beltran doesn’t mean they couldn’t have ALSO traded for a catcher, as most people expected.
i should have answered this previously, but didn’t. actually, trading for Beltran heavily limits their ability to trade for a catcher. who would you propose they go after? and who would they give up to go after him? and don’t say Ramon Hernandez, because the Giants DID go after him, and the Reds ended up just saying they didn’t feel like trading Ramon Hernandez…..to anyone…..
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
well there were options
perhaps the Giants made some overtures and maybe they didn’t, yet guys like Soto, Suzuki, Barajas, Navarro, Posada, Quintero, Bard, or Olivo all spring to mind, outside of Hernandez. They could have kept Wheeler and perhaps offered Sanchez or one of their plethora of relievers or both depending upon the player or the team, not to mention what else may have been available in their minor league system as potential trade chits. Some of those guys, are not exactly defensive Juggernauts, but hell, neither is Whiteside and would also offer some offensive replacement value.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
Wheeler
wasn’t really that close to the Majors, and MadBum is young and cost-controlled. Sanchez would’ve made sense — they’ve got a 5th/6th starter in Barry Zito pitching out of the bullpen that they could’ve used in his place. Or, since Sanchez has the longer track record of pitching decency, they could’ve sold high on Vogelsong before he turns back into a pumpkin.
What I REALLY don’t understand is moving Belt to the outfield to play freaking Aubrey Huff at 1B.
Goldschmidt happens.
yeah I remember all of those condolences
that the franchise received when The Injury went down for two years in a row….
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
I do.
Although nobody realized it was gonna be forever.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Huge win for us....
it’s great that we can start out most difficult stretch of remaining games, and close the day up 3.5
Really impressed we will not have a losing record vs. the Phillies this year
Hmmm, looking that info up, seems the only teams that can claim that are: DBacks, Braves, Brewers and Cardinals. All playoff contenders. At least 2 of these teams will be making the playoffs. So, maybe the Phillies will be even more vulnerable in the playoffs than I thought.
It would seem
that the Phillies have somewhat gotten fat off beating shitty teams. Not that they’re a BAD team, but they’re not particularly impressive against other good teams.
Maybe if they played in a tougher division, like the NL West… ;-)
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
Well, our losing records are against Pittsburgh, the Cubs, Cardinals and the Giants. And we are tied with the Mets and Padres, and, for now, Washington.
So far, have winning records against the Brewers, Phillies and Braves. Though, we shall see how the rest of this week goes, obviously.
The Phillies are now 8-11
Against the teams they would currently face in the playoffs, the Braves, Brewers and us.
They’re good, but far from unbeatable.
Daron "...the D. Baxter fan-club"
Mark: "A non-profit organization."
by Jim McLennan on Aug 17, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, but by all means,
they’d rather face the Dbacks than the Giants…
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Which series?
the Aug. 16-18 series, or the NLDS?
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know
It’s pretty easy to beat a team that can’t score any runs
"When I get sad, I stop getting sad and be AWESOME instead. TRUE STORY."
But
if you can’t ever get a runner to second, then It’s going to be pretty hard
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
They've won 66 games so far
So, it isn’t as easy as it would appear
Liked the Sean Burroughs: Sean Burroughs part...
I liked the D-Backs absolutely trollfacing Halladay and seeing the Giants lose in extra innings as well.
Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/ Arizona Diamondbacks/Phoenix Coyotes/ Arizona Rattlers/Chicago Bears fan
[I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
I guess seeing Collmenter the 2nd time didn't really help Pence
Forgot that he had already faced Collmenter back in May.
You know, Halladay pitched 9 innings, gave up 3 runs and struck out 14. It is a real credit to our pitchers that they kept us in this game.
Did Upton kinda go at Ruiz after we took the lead?
They must have had words earlier in the game. I’ve seen Ruiz get under opponents skin before…
Apparently
All I need to crack the top commenters list is to be so ill that I don’t even have the energy to leave my couch.
Or just have
nothing better to do with your life. It works for me…
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you feeling any better today?
It's the stuff that dreams are made of
It's the slow and steady fire
by 4 Corners Fan on Aug 17, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Still running a fever, though not as high
Called out of my morning job. Hoping to shake this before I am scheduled in at my other job at 3pm.
We're going to have 10 games left with a 6 game lead
And Baseball Prospectus will still have the Giants as a 65% favorite to win the division.
Don't blink; blink and you're dead. Don't turn your back, don't look away, and don't blink. Good luck!
But...DUDE!!
It makes perfect sense!! Their PECOTA projections predict a .900 win % for the Giants and only a .200 win % for the Diamondbacks over those last 10 games!
Goldschmidt happens.
not to mention
they have better nicknames and everything…..
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
Stat of the Night.... the 'Road Warrior Diamondbacks'
There are only 4 teams in MLB that have fewer Losses on the Road than the Diamondbacks (33-27) (2 with same)
They are… the 2 teams featured on ESPN all the time (34-22 and 36-24), Philadelphia (36-22), and one that will surprise you…. Florida (33-26).
Professional Lurker... if you see this, there may be a problem..
Well,
all but one of those teams has also played fewer road games than the Diamondbacks.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Like Songbird
I’m glad I struggled with illness to stick with this game ;my suffering was worth the ginormous win.
☣ "I like to keep a bottle of stimulant handy in case I see a snake, which I also keep handy." ☣
DO IT FOR DREW
I've found...
when I’m not feeling well, a victory has wondrous health benefits.
"The wise writer, I think, writes for the youth of his own generation, the critic of the next and the schoolmasters of ever afterward." F. Scott Fitzgerald.
by NASCARbernet on Aug 17, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
And are YOU feeling better today?
It's the stuff that dreams are made of
It's the slow and steady fire
by 4 Corners Fan on Aug 17, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel like
Upton’s single in the ninth was a pretty solid line drive toward center, far from a bloop. And the pitch was almost down the middle, which the broadcast booth correctly noted that Halladay was pissed at himself for doing.
Still, it’s picking nits for what was one of the best games of the year.
It's was a cross between a line drive and a bloop
But definitely was hit to center.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
I couldn't recall the exact details,
which is why I rely on the FanGraphs play-by-play. And for that matter, I think Overbay’s double might’ve been over Pence’s head, not Victorino’s.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not a big deal
And yes, it was over Pence’s head.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
Wow...
he really did have a bad game.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It wasn't catchable.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
No kidding,
but it’s still gotta be a lousy feeling.
You’re 0-3 with 3 Ks, including one with the bases juiced, and then you watch the go-ahead double go over you…
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, I take it back.
He was already 1-4 at that point. I was thinking his hit came in the 9th.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I suppose
it was a smash hit compared to everything else Halladay had been giving up up to that point.
Still an oppo job off the end of the bat, though, that Upton was late on.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I remember
Halladay being mad at the umpire for not calling the previous pitch as the 3rd strike.
I got nothin'.
Seemed
like plenty wide a zone, though. Even if Putz didn’t get the same benefit in the 9th…
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Halladay seemed to get a little rattled at a few points yesterday
He wasn’t happy when they called that balk.
"Never ignore a coincidence. Unless you're busy, in which case always ignore a coincidence."
Also
As much as I love Gibby he continues to do things that baffle me. I understand bunting with CY on pitch one and two in that AB, but having him attempt that bunt with two strikes is inexcusable.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
Were the runners going on the third pitch?
Because the third was high and tight and he still tried to get it down.
My imagination is greater than your nay-say.
by Jargamus Prime on Aug 17, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't think so.
But yeah, the third pitch was up and in and he still went after it. Dunno whether that was his decision or he missed a sign or what.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the bunt sign was still on for that 3rd strike
Pretty sure I saw MLB Network talk about this?
That,
and, y’know, starting Sean Burroughs EVER.
I would include starting Overbay here, but…
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, yeah.
And Parra still batting 8th… although that may kinda have a similar effect to Tony La Russa batting his pitchers 8th. You’ve got a decent OBP guy in front of the top of the order.
Buuut, if that’s the case, why not just bat him at the top of the order?? As Nick Piecoro pointed out, he’s also now 9-10 on stolen base attempts this year…
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
While I agree
with you on the bunting with two strikes at least Gibby had the foresight to pinch run miggy. Without the Cowgill pinch run who knows what happens that game.
Does Pop-Pop get a treat?
by Juptoncredible on Aug 17, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
I should have given him the credit for that. Although, why did he wait until after CY’s AB to do that?
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
If it's a good bunt.
But why risk it. If CY slaps it too hard back to Halladay, he could go to 2nd for the out.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
You're missing what I'm saying.
If you want to bunt there, which I’m perfectly fine with, then why don’t you put in Cowgill to make sure the baserunner isn’t thrown out on a poor bunt?
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
Okay, I get you.
It just makes sense to me (somehow), to only pinch run for Montero if the bunt attempt fails.
I got nothin'.
I think a lot of managers do this...
…but I’m arguing that it isn’t logical.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
honestly
i bet he just forgot to have Cowgill pinch run for Montero
and only remembered after CY’s bunt failed
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
If Young
gets the bunt down. Then Upton is on 3rd and Miggy is on 2nd. Then he may not pinch run his catcher.
Does Pop-Pop get a treat?
by Juptoncredible on Aug 17, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Why wouldn't he?
With Cowgill you can score on a ball hit to the OF even if directly at an OF, if it’s Montero, you need a gapper.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
Well he still
may have in this parallel universe where Young can get a sac bunt down.
Does Pop-Pop get a treat?
by Juptoncredible on Aug 17, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I just don't get this
I guess I understand trying it on the first or second pitch. But with 2 strikes?
Grace said this is probably what kept Halladay in the game. LOL. So, a strange decision by Gibby allows Halladay to make an out, which convinces Manuel to leave Halladay in. So, um, it was good that Young struck out trying to bunt? Sure, why not?
we out-dumbed
their dumb manager….
i like it
Gibson = craziest smartest reverse psychology person alive
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Because
he only has one backup catcher, and Miggy’s a lefty breaking up two righties?
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
That explains why you wouldn't want to pull Miggy for a pinch runner.
But if you decide you want to go with a pinch runner, why not get all the ‘value’ out of that runner you can. If CY lays down a sac and you have Cowgill at second, there are as many opportunities where Cowgill could score from second over Montero are there are opportunities where the bunt isn’t laid down and he could score from first instead of Montero.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
Absolutely true.
However, if Gibby also has the foresight to not play Sean Burroughs, who proceeded to pop up with Overbay on 3rd and 1 out, we might’ve scored the run anyway: Miggy would’ve still been on 3rd with an out, and if someone else puts it in play, the run likely scores.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Driving home yesterday
I was trying to figure out why Burroughs was in the lineup and the only reason I could come up with was that Halladay does not walk people and Burroughs refuses to walk. Therefore….something something…still trying to make sense of it.
Does Pop-Pop get a treat?
by Juptoncredible on Aug 17, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Because KT
and/or KGB are in love with Sean Burroughs, and KGB insists on following platoon splits.
Goldschmidt happens.
if Gibby also has theforesightcommon sense to not play Sean Burroughs
Fixed it for you.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
by njjohn on Aug 17, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Consider yourself Rec'd
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
As soon as Young squared to bunt the second time I was ready to come on here and rail about it. I guess I trust Gibby mostly, since the results have been so good, but that bunt call angered me as I listened.
The issue I had was not only with Young being one of the worst contact hitters on the team, but more with Overbay (previous at bats not withstanding) and Burroughs coming up. I wouldn’t normally trust either of those guys to get a man home from third against Roy.
by Counsellmember on Aug 17, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
in this case
the results of CY’s bunt were….well…not good lol
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
If only the Astros keep stuff like this up when the Gnats come into town
Astros beat Cubs with Walk-off Grand Slam
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 11:19 AM EDT reply actions
Bad for my Fantasy team.
I’ve got Marmol.
I’d much prefer they do it against Jenny’s fantasy team. (Wilson)
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Think of it this way
Earlier in the week, it was Wilson. Now it’s your turn!
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
But
my turn doesn’t help the Diamondbacks at all?
And the Cubs play the Giants soon…
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
I was putting it purely from a fantasy baseball standpoint, but if you put it like that…
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess
I’m perfectly willing to have my fantasy team lose any chance at ERA, WHIP, or saves this week, if it means Marmol dominates the Giants later?
Goldschmidt happens.
That was great!
Ah, I remember watching a AAA team play as the DBacks back in 2004. How fun something like this would have been.
In case
anyone was curious, BP says the average games lost due to Beltran’s injury is 25.
Goldschmidt happens.
I'm sorry
for Beltran, as that’ll hurt his contract leverage next season, but I’m not particularly sorry for the Giants.
Yes, I’m a bad person.
Tomorrow is another day.
I just assumed
the Gnats would resign him for 5 years, $80 million … or something like that.
I got nothin'.
gonna happen right after
they trade Brandon Belt to Texas for the rights to Brandon Webb
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
by piratedan7 on Aug 17, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It would
make me sad. :(
Even if he never pitched for them. (Which he probably wouldn’t)
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Bad enough
seeing RJ ACTUALLY pitch.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, c'mon.
Don’t you think they could top Barry Zito’s 7 years, $126 million?
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Won't
Rich Harden be a free agent? Sabeanomics!!
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
If I was a GM, Harden is exactly the kind of guy who’d be my achilles heel.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
Sooo tempting...
I would’ve signed Rich Harden, Mark Prior, Brandon Webb, and Scott Kazmir this offseason, and hoped for an OMG AWESOME ROTATION IF NOBODY’S INJURED!!!!!
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget
My second main mancrush: Erik Bedard.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
It's also the reason
I was so wrong on the IPK-Schlereth/Scherzer trade. I am such a sucker for upside and devalue health and consistency. I’m trying to learn it, but you watch someone who flashes that kind of potential and it’s hard not to fall in love.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
LOLSabean
Can’t wait until they lock up him and Bochy for a long time and they ruin that team (even more).
Goldy Watch: 12 games, .268/.318/.463
...that having been said,
they DID win a WS in spite of themselves.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
that’s why I assumed they’d be locked up. Once their payroll goes way up in the next few years, there will be some lulz had. They’ll either have to trade away an expensive core player or two, or they have a huge payroll and can’t fill the holes on that team.
Goldy Watch: 12 games, .268/.318/.463
Be careful
what you wish for. We wouldn’t want it to be that easy to run away from the Gnats would we ;)
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I think a few commenters last night were awful hard on Collmenter.
I don’t remember who they were, but as soon as he had a rough inning their opinion of him took a 180. He got out of the jam when he loaded the bases with an epic dual against Pence, getting an 11 pitch strikeout. Besides one errant throw that cost him, he did post an 8:1 strikeout/walk ratio with only 2 earned runs. If IPK or Huddy put up a very similar performance, I don’t think we would’ve seen ANY negative comments… I still don’t ever really know what to expect from Collmenter, but he definitely threw really well last night and kept the dbacks close with his time on the mound.
Collmenter
doesn’t have the track record of those guys, though.
Also, I have a feeling that Collmenter’s 8 Ks were partly helped out by the same umpire that gave Roy Halladay 14 Ks.
That having been said, I DID mention that it was one of the best starts of his career.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 17, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
next year
I will be fine with Collmenter in the 5 spot
I doubt he wins it
But as a long reliever he’d be killer. Have him take Duke’s spot on the team.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
he'd be a killer at any bp role
long man doesn’t have the effect that the other roles do, though.
i want to see him as the 8th or 9th inning man, if he’s not in the starting rotation.
♫ i've entered a snake of pits with knives in the back of me ♫ can't call you or on you no more when they're attacking me ♫
Perhaps
But I think his strength is in long relief. He has the stamina to do so. He also doesn’t quite have the stuff you’d want out of an 8th/9th inning guy. But maybe he does.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
yeah...
he doesn’t have the prototypical 8th/9th inning stuff
but i mean…can’t really argue with the 1st time through the order results can you?
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope my boy Saunders has a great game today to beat these Philthies!
GO DBACKS and GO JOE!!!
Great game last night…I love spectacular finishes like that!
"I didn't mean to hit the umpire with the dirt, but I did mean to hit that bastard in the stands." -Babe Ruth
A laugher
Like if Burroughs actually contributes in a positive way?
by Backin'the'Backs on Aug 17, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
You can rely him on
having a name that sounds like a word that is a synonym for ’Townships."
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
Anything is possible...
Anybody, Anytime, remember? :)
"I didn't mean to hit the umpire with the dirt, but I did mean to hit that bastard in the stands." -Babe Ruth
by Rockkstarr12 on Aug 17, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
This makes
me laugh just thinking about it
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
A laugher game?
Like the Phillies making error after error and Joe Saunders shines at the end?
"I didn't mean to hit the umpire with the dirt, but I did mean to hit that bastard in the stands." -Babe Ruth
Did anyone already mention that the broadcast caught Gibby giving the signs to Williams to have Young bunt… while he was actually saying it…. Kinda defeats the purpose of the signs…
My imagination is greater than your nay-say.
I think he meant he saw Gibson giving CY signs and he inferred that they were to bunt.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." Robert S. Wieder
no
the Phillies announcers noted that Gibby mouthed to Williams “Bunt!”
lol
apparently Matt Williams was looking confused at Gibby like….why the hell are we bunting with two strikes?
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
what's interesting is
His decision to sit Kelly against a righty. He is either lost complete confidence in him or is driving home a message to start producing or risk being an everyday player
Or
He knows what we do: Kelly’s splits are weird
Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
"I'm like if it fits in the oven, play ball." - soco
Promised Colin Cowgill fifteen sandwiches on 7/6/2011
No
Gibby doing something that almost makes sense to us? Never!
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Possibly,
but if that were the case, you’d also think he’d know what we do about Burroughs.
Goldschmidt happens.
I think the problem is
we don’t know something about Burroughs that Gibby does…
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Or, the difference between the two.
We don’t know something about Burroughs that Gibby THINKS he does.
Goldschmidt happens.
I'm not sure if this was
mentioned anywhere, but it’s an interesting tidbit. This was Halladay’s 13 complete loss in his last five seasons. C. C. Sabathia is in second with 5 CG losses over the same period
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 2:05 PM EDT reply actions
Fun with playoff odds
In all seriousness, CoolStandings now has our division win odds at 73.6%, with the Giants at 25.7%.
Baseball Prospectus, after yesterday, still has the freaking Giants at 62.8% for the division, with us at 37.1%. In fact, the Dbacks-Phillies game, coupled with the Giants-Braves game, knocked their Phillies’ overall playoff odds from 100.0% down to 99.9%. Wowzers!
But what’s really weird is that, although our overall odds increased to BP because of our record, our expected win % moving forward in their eyes still went down, from .478 to .470. Not really sure how this makes any sense, unless they expected us to win yesterday’s game — or else, they’re penalizing our expected offense for only scoring 3 runs (Against Roy Halladay!!) despite giving up 2. So, our pythag and record have gone up, but our average win margin has gone down. (At the same time, they’re still predicting outscored San Francisco to play .555 ball)
Before yday, our .478 expected win % over 41 games would translate to going 19.6-21.4. Now, going .470 over 40 games would be going 18.8-21.2.
Sooo, I guess they figure going 1-0 used up one of our 20 wins left. Crap. ;-)
Goldschmidt happens.
Are these the same people who said the odds of a Space Shuttle calamity
was one in fifty thousand? Those were the odds prior to the first disaster.
"The wise writer, I think, writes for the youth of his own generation, the critic of the next and the schoolmasters of ever afterward." F. Scott Fitzgerald.
by NASCARbernet on Aug 17, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I can guarantee
with out a doubt that there will be no more Space Shuttle disasters. Just sayin’
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
It's the stuff that dreams are made of
It's the slow and steady fire
by 4 Corners Fan on Aug 17, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Too true
But that’s a political disaster, not a Shuttle disaster
DROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!
by imstillhungry95 on Aug 17, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
TBH,
the shuttle doesn’t really do much hard science that can’t be done better robotically. It’s mostly a massive PR thing.
Granted, I’m just as sorry as you that it’s gone… :(
Goldschmidt happens.
And
I never DID get a chance to watch a launch. :(
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
if their projection system
is heavily determined by a discrete number of previous games….then it could have been affected by whatever game just dropped off on the other end of the projection (in order to make room for the previous game against Halladay)
so maybe the game that was dropped off, we won like 8-0 or something
by blue bulldog on Aug 17, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
The Flash: Colin Cowgill
♫ i've entered a snake of pits with knives in the back of me ♫ can't call you or on you no more when they're attacking me ♫
I dunno
whether he gets BSR runs for that, although I’d assume he does, yes.
But we’re not talking about RAR. We’re talking about WPA. Overbay gets credit for everything that happens during his PA.
Goldschmidt happens.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 18, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions

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