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D-backs Trade Deadline Target: Hiroki Kuroda

My girlfriend is at work for a few hours, so I was glancing through a recent piece from SI's Jon Heyman detailing the trade market for pitching throughout baseball, and stumbled across a name that has piqued my interest - Dodgers right-hander Hiroki Kuroda.  I've always been a fan of Kuroda, who strikes out just enough batters to get by and does everything else exceptionally well.

Sure, pitching in Chavez Ravine has probably helped him throughout his career, but the peripheral rates suggest to me that he shouldn't have a terrible time thriving in Chase Field, and he's certainly familiar with pitching in the NL West.  After the jump, a deeper look into the success Kuroda has had throughout his career, his current contract details, why the Dodgers could be looking to move him (a bit of an obvious point), and what would be needed to acquire Kuroda.

Star-divide

Kuroda arrived in the US as a 32-year-old from the Hiroshima Toyo Carp of Japan in December of 2007 (thanks, Wikipedia!), signing a three-year, $35.3MM contract without having to go through the Japanese posting system due to a provision in the contract he had negotiated with the Carp the year before.  He immediately stepped into the Dodgers' rotation and paid instant dividends, posting a 3.73 ERA (3.59 FIP) in 183.1 innings of work - 31 starts - for L.A. in 2008.  Turned 33-years-old by the beginning of the season, Kuroda racked up 3.6 fWAR that year while making a paltry $7.43MM.  Kuroda turned out to be a bargain for the life of that three-year deal, accumulating an even 10 fWAR over those three years, an average of $3.53MM per WAR.

Strangely, though, Kuroda has always been much less appreciated by bWAR, though I haven't the slightest inclination as to why.  Yeah, he pitches in Chavez Ravine, but a career ERA+ of 111 is mighty impressive, and Kuroda's career ERA (3.52) is almost identical to his career FIP (3.51).  Yet, for whatever reason, Kuroda's bWAR for those first three seasons is a staggeringly-low 4.9.  Why one system would value a player almost twice as much as the other when he hasn't been particularly lucky or unlucky is beyond me, and a simple quick glance makes the fWAR numbers seem more reasonable, at least in my eyes.  Still, it was something I felt was worth noting.

Re-signed by the Dodgers to a one-year deal for this season, Kuroda has been even better than in the last three years with a 3.07 ERA in 96.2 innings of work thus far in 2011, though his FIP/xFIP numbers are 3.76/3.49 - about in line with his career numbers outside of the HR/FB rate.  Kuroda has a modest strikeout rate for a pitcher of his caliber, K'ing 6.98 batters per nine innings, but excelling due to a paltry 2.51 BB/9 and 44.7% GB-Rate that would play nicely in hitter-friendly Chase Field and with the D-backs' solid group of infield defenders.  For his career, Kuroda sports rates of 6.62 K/9, 2.14 BB/9, and 49.8% GB-Rate in 593.2 innings of work.

In spite of his age and the notoriety of Japanese workloads, Kuroda has been fairly durable (note: that link goes to one of the coolest websites in existence - a must-bookmark for baseball followers) in his tenure with the Dodgers.  Kuroda has only missed significant time in 2009, his worst big-league season, with a trio of injuries that landed him on the 15-day DL twice - a trunk strain (55 days missed, 15-Day DL), a concussion (21 days missed, 15-Day DL), and neck stiffness (19 days missed, no DL).  Kuroda didn't miss a day in 2010 and has been healthy again thus far in 2011, so there's minimal risk that he would miss time with an injury if acquired.

 

Now, for the contract details.  Kuroda was signed to a one-year, $12MM contract last off-season that Frank McCourt likely regrets allowing, even though the terms are very team-friendly.  Kuroda deferred $4MM in bonus money that will be paid in 2012 and 2013, earning a base salary of $8MM in 2011 with $500k in performance incentives.  With about half of the season in the books, Kuroda would only be owed a hair above $4MM for the rest of the season and the $500k in bonuses that I imagine he'll reach.  In other words, adding Kuroda's contract to the D-backs' $56.5MM player payroll shouldn't be a terrible stretch of the team's budget, particularly given the incredible value that Kuroda would provide down the stretch and in any postseason action.

By also agreeing to take on the deferred bonus money (if possible), Arizona could make a move appealing to the financially-strapped Dodgers, perhaps even agreeing to chip in some additional cash to help McCourt meet his deadline to retain ownership of the team or help MLB/the new ownership pay down some of the Dodgers' debts.  This could allow Arizona to acquire a pitcher of Kuroda's caliber while not having to pay out the ears in prospects from a loaded system that figures to play a prominent role in the team's future.

The biggest nuisance of Kuroda's deal is actually that it includes a full no-trade clause, which Kuroda obtained as a part of his contract with L.A. due to his desire to stay on the West Coast, as close as possible to Japan.  However, Arizona has been linked to Kuroda multiple times, as Arizona was one of the teams in the running to sign Kuroda out of Japan (also linked were Texas, Kansas City, and Seattle, according to Wikipedia) and was also linked to him in free agency last summer, supposedly being willing to offer a three-year $27MM contract to Kuroda.  If Kuroda is still willing to consider playing in Arizona, his no-trade clause may not be an issue.

 

In fact, if Kuroda is still willing to pitch for the D-backs, Arizona could actually be in an excellent position to acquire him should L.A. choose to sell.  Kuroda would only be willing to be dealt to a West Coast team, so that automatically limits the possibilities to two divisions - the AL West & NL West.

In the AL West, Texas has a solid 2.5-game lead on Seattle, and the Rangers are the only team in the division with a record above .500.  However, the Rangers have a full rotation with three starters sporting ERA's below 3.2 (C.J. Wilson, Alexi Ogando, and Matt Harrison), and two other starters whose peripherals suggest that they are better than their mid-4 ERA's suggest (Derek Holland and Colby Lewis).  Seattle is a contender, but starting pitching is hardly their biggest problem, as the worst starter in their rotation has an ERA+ of 99 (Jason Vargas).  Needless to say, the incredible emergence of Michael Pineda means that Seattle won't be targeting starting pitching if they decide to try to upgrade.

This leaves an in-division deal as Los Angeles' only real possibility.  Arizona is in first place in the division with some shaky starters in their rotation, so Kuroda-to-Arizona is a fit.  One of Josh Collmenter, Joe Saunders, and Zach Duke would be moved into a relief role, providing great rotation depth and reinforcing a shallow bullpen.  In second place are the Giants, and you don't need me to tell you that San Francisco doesn't need more starting pitching.  Heck, the Giants are keeping a completely-healthy Barry Zito stuck in Triple-A because they don't have a spot for him.  Kuroda isn't on their wish list.

Then we have the 37-37 Colorado Rockies, currently four games behind Arizona for the division lead and five games behind Atlanta for the NL Wild Card.  Colorado has a talented roster, no doubt about it, but has under-performed this year in spite of the emergence of Jhoulys Chacin as a potential legitimate ace.  However, believe-it-or-not, the worst ERA+ in the Rockies rotation is currently 96, belonging to both Ubaldo Jimenez and recently-promoted Juan Nicasio.  If Nicasio can hold down the fifth spot and Jimenez can help make up for some possible regression that Chacin could experience going forward, the Rockies look to have a shockingly-full rotation in spite of the loss of Jorge De La Rosa.

 

So, to put things shortly, Arizona looks like the only serious landing spot for Kuroda should L.A. put him on the market to try to re-stock their minor league system.  I think it's necessary first to look at what holes the Dodgers have in their farm system, as a way to identify what type of prospects Arizona could look to hand over to the Dodgers in exchange for their right-hander.

Perusing through John Sickels' pre-season top-20 prospects list for L.A., there are a few definite strengths that stand out.  For one, L.A. is solid in the middle infield, with Dee Gordon and Jake Lemmerman providing a pair of solid shortstop prospects.  Second, the Dodgers are stacked in the outfield.  It appears that Jerry Sands, who flunked out of his first trial in the majors, will be a left fielder rather than a first baseman, and Trayvon Robinson has been a revelation this year at Triple-A, particularly in his power development.  Third, the system is loaded with high-upside pitching, though most of it is either struggling in the upper levels (like Chris Withrow, Aaron Miller, and Ethan Martin) or still working in the lower levels (Zach Lee, Garret Gould).

The main exception to those qualifications among the team's starters is Rubby De La Rosa, who has already hit the Show.  However, it isn't a guarantee that he sticks as a starter, and the team's rotation has been shaky this year outside of Kuroda and Clayton Kershaw (though I do think that Chad Billingsley will be fine).  Ted Lilly's K-Rate has dipped dramatically, and Jon Garland is really bad at this point of his career, so more close-to-the-majors pitching could be used.

However, I see a much bigger hole in the Dodgers organization, both in the major leagues and throughout the farm system - corner infield bats.  Casey Blake won't last forever, Juan Uribe is really terrible at this point of his career, and James Loney has been really terrible throughout his career.  If the team puts Sands in the outfield - if he makes it back and sticks in the big leagues, of course - there is nobody waiting in the wings to man those corner infield spots and no money to sign everyday-caliber players to do so in the future.  If I'm running the Dodgers, those are the first positions I look to address in the minor leagues, and I look to do it sooner rather than later, as Loney looks to be a non-tender candidate this off-season and Blake is 37 years old.

This creates a near-perfect match with the D-backs.  As we all know, Arizona's farm system is absolutely loaded to the brim with corner infielders.  At the hot corner, the D-backs have Matt Davidson, Bobby Borchering, and Ryan Wheeler all among the organization's top-20 prospects.  Over at first base, there is Paul Goldschmidt and Brandon Allen in the upper levels, as well as any of those third base prospects who prove themselves unable to handle the position in the big-leagues long-term.  With how loaded Arizona is at the weakest positions in the Dodger organization, I can hardly imagine a more perfect match-up.

Before you get too concerned, rest assured that Arizona is not going to be giving up a top-10 prospect for half of a season of Kuroda.  The return going to L.A. will be greater than what Arizona received for Garland - utility infielder at-best Tony Abreu - but with the leverage that Kuroda's no-trade clause and limited market provide for Arizona, there's little reason to offer up a top talent.  That means you can cross Goldschmidt, Davidson, and Borchering off the list of possible trade pieces heading to Los Angeles - none of them are going anywhere at this year's trade deadline.  With Arizona eating the salary of Kuroda, just one of Wheeler or Allen - whoever the Dodgers prefer - would probably be a sufficient package given the limited leverage L.A. has.

However, there's also the issue of Los Angeles' rotation.  Garland hasn't pitched since June 1, with De La Rosa filling in that vacant rotation slot.  Garland doesn't appear to be seriously hurt, so he'll return at some point, but the Dodgers have truly terrible pitching depth at the moment.  Selling at the deadline is one thing, but the team will still need big-league starting pitching to fill five rotation slots, and the likes of John Ely and Dana Eveland at Triple-A Albuquerque aren't exactly appealing options.

With Arizona likely to banish one of their rotation members to the bullpen in the event of a Kuroda acquisition, it would make sense if the team decided to send one back to Los Angeles - on Arizona's dime - in order to sweeten the pot and reduce the prospect value needed.  If this happens, it isn't likely that the Dodgers could even get any of the five prospects listed above, so it would likely be a 20-30 guy in Arizona's system that has some upside worth taking a flier on, either at a thin position in the system or just another pitching prospect (can't ever have too many of them).

 

All things considered, here are the deals that I could see going down:

Trade 1: Arizona receives Hiroki Kuroda in exchange for 1B Brandon Allen or 3B Ryan Wheeler, and/or cash.

Trade 2: Arizona receives Hiroki Kuroda in exchange for one of LHP Joe Saunders and LHP Zach Duke, one of RHP Kevin Munson, 2B David Nick, RHP Chase Anderson, LHP Mike Belfiore, and INF Zach Walters, and cash (at least the remaining salary due to Saunders/Duke).

 

If those deals seem like low-balls, it's probably because they are.  However, if the Dodgers insist on trading a pitcher to shave off some salary, the only movable piece (that they'd ever consider moving) is Kuroda.  They won't move Kershaw or Billingsley, and they aren't likely to find takers for Lilly, due to his new three-year, $33MM contract and declining strikeout rate, or Garland, due to mediocrity and nagging injuries.  This is about saving money for the Dodgers, and this move saves them about $8.5MM over the next three years, while still providing them a nice talent in the upper minors or a big-league pitcher to fill in the hole lefty by Kuroda for free.

Also, for those concerned, Kuroda is likely to be a Type B free agent next year according to MLBTR's reverse-engineered Elias rankings, though Kuroda has shown a willingness to accept a one-year deal to stay with a team on the West Coast.  Kuroda would probably turn down arbitration, so that supplemental-round pick does require some consideration.  However, with the holes L.A. is likely to have in the big-leagues over the next few years and their lack of cash or minor-league depth to fill those holes, the cheap, big-league-ready talent that Arizona could offer would probably outweigh the value of that draft pick.

 

Of course, Mark Cuban could buy the Dodgers and this all wouldn't matter, because he'd pay out of pocket for a few years and wouldn't have any reason to deal Kuroda unless he got a sweet package.  Cuban as the Dodgers' owner probably costs Arizona another prospect in the return on either deal of about the caliber of, say, Bryan Shaw (complete speculation), if a Kuroda deal were to still go down.

 

So I'll end on this note: Please, please, please don't let Mark Cuban buy the Dodgers, Bud.  Make up a reason...

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Unearned Runs?

One reason for the WAR discrepancy could be unearned runs. bWAR uses Runs Allowed rather than Earned Runs Allowed, and Kuroda’s given up lots of unearned runs. His career ERA is 3.52, but his Runs Allowed average is 4.09. Plus, from 2008-2010, his FIP was always lower than ERA, so that helps make his fWAR better than his bWAR. Add in the park effects, and his bWAR drops from 10 down to 5.

by Amit on Jun 24, 2011 4:45 PM EDT reply actions  

That's probably it

Which seems foolish to me. Blame Kuroda for ineffective defense behind him? I seriously doubt there’s something about him that makes his defense error-prone.

Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 24, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Should there be a Distinction between ER and R?

Many analysts feel that the distinction between earned runs and unearned runs is too arbitrary. First, the Official Scorer awards H/E or PB/WP pretty randomly. Second, not all unearned runs are equal. When a defensive player lets a 2-Out, base-loaded grounder go through his legs, there’s not much a pitcher can do. But if the leadoff man reaches on an error, but then the pitcher gives up 8 straight 2-Out hits, then he is at least partially to blame, even if all of the runs are unearned.

It’s not necessarily that the defense plays particularly badly behind Kuroda. It could be that he has just pitched worse during innings when an error was committed.

Finally, FIP makes no distinction between earned and unearned runs. All runs are treated the same – that is, a home run after a 2-out error still counts in FIP. So maybe RA is a better measure than ERA.

by Amit on Jun 24, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.

by shoewizard on Jun 24, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

The difference between the ERA/RA

And your comp with FIP is that a home run counts as a solid amount to FIP regardless of the scenario the homer is hit during – bases empty or loaded, it’s the same. With ERA/RA, that situation changes dramatically, and it’s hard to pin the blame on Kuroda if his defense let extra guys on base that he wouldn’t have allowed in otherwise.

Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 25, 2011 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Look at the Numbers for Reached On Error

Here are the number of batters who reached on error for the Big 3 Dodger Starters:
Kershaw: 14
Billingsley: 26
Kuroda: 28

And here are the number of unearned runs allowed;
Kershaw: 9
Billingsley: 18
Kuroda: 34

So Billingsley and Kuroda have had almost the same number of runners reach by error, but Kuroda has allowed a lot more unearned runs to score.

by Amit on Jun 25, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm all for

Mark Cuban owning an MLB team

Just not one I hate.

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jun 24, 2011 4:51 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Intersting article, IHSB

I hate to burst your bubble, but I dont’ see any way that Selig doesn’t allow Cuban to buy up the Dodgers at a reduced rate.

That said, I think that the Kuroda deal would be a good one for both sides, even if they get sold to Mr. I’ve Got a $80,000 Bottle of Champaign and You Don’t. If for no other reason, Cuban is made out of money, and could pay out of pocket for the entire payroll, I think he would want to plug some of the holes they have, such as corner INF’s. I think that one of your deals could quite easily come to fruition.

The irony of the Information Age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinions ~ Veteran reporter, John Lawton, 68, speaking to the American Association of Broadcast Journalists in 1995

by imstillhungry95 on Jun 24, 2011 4:52 PM EDT reply actions  

You're probably right

But I think Cuban would be savvy enough to understand that six years of control of a prospect like Allen or Wheeler would be more valuable than half of a year of Kuroda to a crappy team. So hopefully, yes, a deal could still happen.

Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 24, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not only that

Brandon Allen would get some playing time. Everybody would be happy.

The irony of the Information Age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinions ~ Veteran reporter, John Lawton, 68, speaking to the American Association of Broadcast Journalists in 1995

by imstillhungry95 on Jun 24, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Precisely

He would actually be freed.

And James Loney would be benched.

The world would be corrected!

Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 24, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can I get an 'Amen' Brothers and Sisters!

The irony of the Information Age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinions ~ Veteran reporter, John Lawton, 68, speaking to the American Association of Broadcast Journalists in 1995

by imstillhungry95 on Jun 24, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly

an Allen for Kuroda trade would be a coup in my opinion….

but the shine on Allen has rubbed off a lot for me

by blue bulldog on Jun 24, 2011 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

HEY, FRENCHY! STAR TREK OR STAR WARS?

by DbacksSkins on Jun 25, 2011 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

For Cuban to be allowed to buy the DODGERS

he would likely have to make some major changes in his overall business portfolio and practices, including HD Theater, which has some programming that the other owners may not consider compatible with the family-friendly model favored by baseball.

"Oh, grow up 007. It's not a toy."

by NASCARbernet on Jun 24, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the other hand

I don’t see any way that McCourt moves quickly enough that Cuban takes ownership of the Dodgers before the trade deadline.

"Never ignore a coincidence. Unless you're busy, in which case always ignore a coincidence."

by kishi on Jun 24, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

From what I've heard

The whole McCourt thing could be dragged out for a veeeeeerrrrryyyyy long time… though McCourt is sure to lose.

The more drawn out, the better I say!

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jun 24, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Before McCourt can do anything with the team, the court still needs to make a ruling on who owns it and how much. I don’t think the date for that is until August or September.

"Never ignore a coincidence. Unless you're busy, in which case always ignore a coincidence."

by kishi on Jun 24, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

If McCourt misses payroll

or declares bankruptcy, both of which are looming possibilities, by contract, MLB can assume ownership of the Dodgers. I don’t think they would hesitate to do so. At this point, they want McCourts out.

by azjazzman on Jun 25, 2011 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can see a reason:

MLB owners are bitter old men who don’t like change.

http://xkcd.com/904/

by Zavada's Moustache on Jun 24, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cuban won't get the Dodgers.

Bud doesn’t like him, and neither does Jerry Reinsdorf.

HEY, FRENCHY! STAR TREK OR STAR WARS?

by DbacksSkins on Jun 25, 2011 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Cuban is a pariah to MLB, although I think he would be awesome.

by azjazzman on Jun 25, 2011 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's funny to me

That the Frank McCourts and Fred Wilpons of the worlds get through BUT NOOOOO MARK CUBAN SAID SOMETHING BAD ABOUT A REFEREE ONCE, NEVERMIND THAT HE TURNED A PRETTY CRAPPY BASKETBALL FRANCHISE AROUND ALMOST INSTANTANEOUSLY AND WOULD TRY HIS HARDEST TO THROW A WINNER OUT ON THE FIELD!

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jun 25, 2011 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cuban is not in the right club, apparently.

I doubt that the McCourts and Wilpons will be around too much longer, MLB will wind up with LA, and Einhorn will control the Mets.

Don’t know much about Cuban, but after a quick read visions of a 21st Century multi sport George Steinbrenner appeared.

"Some speak of the future, My love she speaks softly, She knows there’s no success like failure, And that failure’s no success at all" B. Dylan

by xmet on Jun 25, 2011 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cuban has an interest in the soft-core porn industry

which baseball will universally reject.

"Oh, grow up 007. It's not a toy."

by NASCARbernet on Jun 25, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

More specifically

his HD Theater enterprise carries programming that probably does not mesh well with baseball’s ownership standards and practices. As hypocritical as it may seem, baseball’s owners want their fellow owners to have ‘clean’ and uncontroversial business enterprises. In this time where the Mets and Dodger ownership have what appear to be insurmountable difficulties, it’s inconceivable that baseball’s owners would admit this individual given his behavior in basketball and some of his business dealings.

"Oh, grow up 007. It's not a toy."

by NASCARbernet on Jun 25, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we're going to go the starting pitcher route

then we need to keep Saunders. Duke and Collmenter have had real trouble going long, and Saunders’ ability to go seven or eight innings even when he’s having a bad day is what is keeping the bullpen from imploding right now.

You could make the argument that Collmenter’s value will never be higher, because right now we could trade him as a potential long-term starter whereas he may be a reliever again in a few months. But I think Collmenter is immensely valuable to us in either role — I’d actually rather have him as a reliever than have Kuroda as a starter, if it comes down to that choice. Collmenter would instantly solve all our bullpen problems as a reliever, and while I’d rather have him as a starter, either option is preferable to losing him.

So the guy on the chopping block, for me, is Duke, who’s struggled with control issues and had one really awful outing. I wouldn’t mind at all trading Duke for Kuroda. True, that would give us somewhat of a problem going forward, because we’d lose Saunders and Kuroda at the end of the year and Collmenter might well go back to the ’pen. But if we can fill some of those slots with people like Bauer, Parker, and Skaggs, plus acquire another Saunders-like pitcher in the offseason, we will still be in good shape.

by Nonpartisan on Jun 24, 2011 5:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Nobody's going to buy Collmenter as a starter

Each team’s stat guys will take a look at his minor league splits of facing teams the first time and subsequent times (absurd split, by the by), and realize he’s a reliever. Of course, if they don’t, then I’m all for it. I’d deal Collmenter for Kuroda straight-up.

Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 24, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

In that case

we might have a problem dealing another starting pitcher for Kuroda. The idea situation would be using Collmenter to fix the ‘pen, and Kuroda to fill his spot in the rotation. So I like your idea of trading Allen or Wheeler for Kuroda better. C’mon, Brandon Allen for a #3 starter? It’s a no-brainer.

by Nonpartisan on Jun 24, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see Zach Duke as the odd man out

if this deal comes through.

"Oh, grow up 007. It's not a toy."

by NASCARbernet on Jun 24, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

this

i don’t like kuroda, but that’s mostly the dodger blue. duke is lefty and can really hit, but… after that, you can have him.

the gnome is looking more like a bullpen ace than starter (as expected?).

♫ i've entered a snake of pits with knives in the back of me ♫ can't call you or on you no more when they're attacking me ♫

by marionette on Jun 24, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep

As expected.

Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 24, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

but you want to trade him for kuroda???????

♫ i've entered a snake of pits with knives in the back of me ♫ can't call you or on you no more when they're attacking me ♫

by marionette on Jun 24, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

bullpen arm for a starter?

I’d do it. I think he’s more of a set-up guy than a closer. The more he throws, the less effective he’ll be as teams see him over and over again. A few years from now, it wouldn’t be surprising if he was replacement-level.

For half a year of Kuroda at $4MM this year ($4MM deferred)? That’s about 1.5 wins worth of Kuroda in the regular season plus playoff action. I’d definitely make that move.

Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 24, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

but putz is old

i think collmenter might be a closer.

kuroda makes a lotta $$$. i would wait it out and add the youth next year (or maybe this year, if possible). i’m happy with 5-6 innings from either gnome or micah.

why give up a known good for temporary help? even if he can’t close, collmenter will be a great setup guy for years.

♫ i've entered a snake of pits with knives in the back of me ♫ can't call you or on you no more when they're attacking me ♫

by marionette on Jun 24, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

I don’t really see him as a closer. He doesn’t have enough speed on his fastball, so he can’t just blow it by hitters. Nor will his sneaky delivery be completly unable for opposing hitters to pick up for the rest of his carrer. In other words, I just don’t see him having closer type stuff

The irony of the Information Age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinions ~ Veteran reporter, John Lawton, 68, speaking to the American Association of Broadcast Journalists in 1995

by imstillhungry95 on Jun 24, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm not saying

he’ll be trevor hoffman, but he has a superior change up and great deception. and i think he has what it takes “between the ears” too.

too much for kuroda rental!

♫ i've entered a snake of pits with knives in the back of me ♫ can't call you or on you no more when they're attacking me ♫

by marionette on Jun 24, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

A Kuroda rental

probably wins us a comp pick too, though, which has value.

HEY, FRENCHY! STAR TREK OR STAR WARS?

by DbacksSkins on Jun 25, 2011 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kuroda is not a free agent until 2014,

so there would be no return on a 3 month rental.

"Some speak of the future, My love she speaks softly, She knows there’s no success like failure, And that failure’s no success at all" B. Dylan

by xmet on Jun 25, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're also forgetting

The fastball that Jason Grey rated as a 35 on the 20-80 scale.

Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 25, 2011 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

If we were to acquire another starter

I wouldn’t mind it being Kuroda

"There are 3 types of baseball players: those who make it happen, those who watch it happen, & those who wonder what happens." -Tommy Lasorda

"When you want to win a game, you have to teach. When you lose a game, you have to learn." ~Tom Landry

by Rockkstarr12 on Jun 24, 2011 5:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Ryan Roberts 1st at bat with the Dbacks

last season….Roberts hit Kuroda in the head with a line drive.

If you'd have been a dog.....
They would of drowned you at birth.

by edbigghead on Jun 24, 2011 5:25 PM EDT reply actions  

That's the concussion Kuroda missed time with, IIRC

Seems to be just fine though now.

Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 24, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was

Rusty Ryal

IIRC

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jun 24, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't think it was RyRo

that sounds better though

The irony of the Information Age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinions ~ Veteran reporter, John Lawton, 68, speaking to the American Association of Broadcast Journalists in 1995

by imstillhungry95 on Jun 24, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

RuRy ?

If you'd have been a dog.....
They would of drowned you at birth.

by edbigghead on Jun 24, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dang it.

Double R

If you'd have been a dog.....
They would of drowned you at birth.

by edbigghead on Jun 24, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

This

HEY, FRENCHY! STAR TREK OR STAR WARS?

by DbacksSkins on Jun 25, 2011 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

And

for punishment, Rusty was banished to Kuroda’s home country…

HEY, FRENCHY! STAR TREK OR STAR WARS?

by DbacksSkins on Jun 25, 2011 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

You mean Rusty Ryal

"There are 3 types of baseball players: those who make it happen, those who watch it happen, & those who wonder what happens." -Tommy Lasorda

"When you want to win a game, you have to teach. When you lose a game, you have to learn." ~Tom Landry

by Rockkstarr12 on Jun 24, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

She would know

The irony of the Information Age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinions ~ Veteran reporter, John Lawton, 68, speaking to the American Association of Broadcast Journalists in 1995

by imstillhungry95 on Jun 24, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes I would since I was there

My friends and I were in 317 and saw the whole thing happen straight-on. Hearing that ball from when it hit the bat to when it hit Kuroda’s head sounded like a shotgun went off…it was eerie…I felt so bad for both Rusty and Hiroki…

I did get pleasure out of popping the asshole Dodger fan behind me’s BIG beach ball with one of the rock pins I had on my vest that day (it was 80’s Night and I was dressed like a rocker chick)…he and his family kept smacking me and my friends with that damn beach ball so I popped it with my pin. They ended up tossed from the ballpark though because the family (all 8 of them) were threatening us and others with violence and just being very rude and obscene…my friends got the usher and security to boot them after the last time I got hit by the beach ball…

"There are 3 types of baseball players: those who make it happen, those who watch it happen, & those who wonder what happens." -Tommy Lasorda

"When you want to win a game, you have to teach. When you lose a game, you have to learn." ~Tom Landry

by Rockkstarr12 on Jun 25, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was at that game.

You could hear the sound all the way up in the 3rd deck. I took pictures of Koroda being carted off. (in one of them it looks like Manny is laughing about something, too….)

Per Mare, Per Terras

by justin1985 on Jun 25, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

How About Miranda for Kuroda?

Clear some space for Goldie and if Goldie flops you can always come back with BA.

by sonic barracuda on Jun 24, 2011 7:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Miranda for Kuroda

Would be ideal if we could somehow pull it off. Great article IHSB, it made working on a Friday bareable. By dealing Miranda the Dodgers will be getting the 1B with a decent glove and some power they need, and we would get the #3 starter we need. This would push Saunders to our 4 and Duke to 5 which is a much more stable back end of our rotation. I do believe if it is Miranda that’s dealt we would need to add one or two more minor pieces. Half a season of Kuroda in a playoff push is worth Miranda IMO, we would still have Goldie and BA in our system.

Here's to the return of "Anybody Anytime"

by jryanwalters on Jun 24, 2011 7:56 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Miranda would be ideal

But it’s not going to happen. Miranda’s too old to be a young trade chip – L.A. won’t want someone in their prime, they’ll want someone who can hold down a slot cheaply for six years once they unload Loney. That’s Brandon Allen.

Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 25, 2011 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

So we can't chant "Rusty R-yal"

anymore? At least there’s good neurological care here.

Days until Aug. 18: 135

by Reynolds rapper on Jun 24, 2011 8:47 PM EDT reply actions  

IHSB The Young Pitching Prospects..........

will be included in the trade discussions. With Bauer, Bradley, Skags, Parker, Holkmberg, etc we will be in a position to let go of a JR Bradley, Rowland, Perry, etc. These are the young/projectible guys you referenced. Understand they are young but they are buried in the lowest levels of our system and not likely to move up soon.

by DBackFan4 on Jun 24, 2011 9:11 PM EDT reply actions  

I know all about these guys

But never actually referenced them. The young arms I referenced were in the Dodger system.

These arms are too good to be added as pieces to a package that includes a starter returning to L.A., and don’t fill a system need if they’re the centerpiece of a move. In other words, there isn’t a package that makes sense involving one of them. L.A. has bigger needs, and Kuroda’s a solid veteran arm that they can use to fill at least one of those needs.

Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 25, 2011 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

much rather do the Allen/Wheeler deal

Allen should be able to get us a solid player in return whether it’s kuroda or someone else, but I don’t see why we would hang onto him…he couldn’t beat out Miranda in spring and Goldschmidt is knocking…then there are the guys in High-A…unless they think he will able to play left field I can’t see him on the team after the wavier deadline

by phx suns on Jun 24, 2011 9:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Allen never had a chance though.

It was pretty obvious when they signed Branyan.

by rfffr on Jun 25, 2011 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

an honest question

when was the last time an asian played for the Dbacks?

that being said….i’m a huge fan of Hiroki Kuroda. i feel like he’s one of those players who’s consistently underrated.

by blue bulldog on Jun 24, 2011 9:33 PM EDT reply actions  

The 2nd time, yeah.

HEY, FRENCHY! STAR TREK OR STAR WARS?

by DbacksSkins on Jun 25, 2011 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Heh

I forgot he came back to us. To start right?

I got nothin'.

by Bcawz on Jun 25, 2011 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

HEY, FRENCHY! STAR TREK OR STAR WARS?

by DbacksSkins on Jun 25, 2011 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

kerry wood to bolster the bull pen

a better move

♫ i've entered a snake of pits with knives in the back of me ♫ can't call you or on you no more when they're attacking me ♫

by marionette on Jun 24, 2011 10:30 PM EDT reply actions  

He wont move.

He is on the cheap there I believe, to be close to his family. I might be wrong though.

I got nothin'.

by Bcawz on Jun 24, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

Wood doesn’t leave Chicago.

HEY, FRENCHY! STAR TREK OR STAR WARS?

by DbacksSkins on Jun 25, 2011 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

There's also the issue

That he’s not very good. Lowest career K-Rate as a full-time reliever, BB-Rate of 3.75/9IP, not a ground-ball pitcher. 4.40 xFIP. Vastly overrated.

Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 25, 2011 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

And Wood can't stay healthy

Would we really want unhealthy Wood?

"There are 3 types of baseball players: those who make it happen, those who watch it happen, & those who wonder what happens." -Tommy Lasorda

"When you want to win a game, you have to teach. When you lose a game, you have to learn." ~Tom Landry

by Rockkstarr12 on Jun 25, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ugh

No.

Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 25, 2011 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why

do you think Kuroda is likely to decline arbitration?

HEY, FRENCHY! STAR TREK OR STAR WARS?

by DbacksSkins on Jun 25, 2011 1:04 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't see us getting anything.

It’s expected that he’ll do one of two things

1. Retire
2. Go back to Japan

by rfffr on Jun 25, 2011 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because everybody does

He’d match the salary he’d get from arbitration in free agency, so there’s not much of a benefit for him to accept it. It just takes away the non-zero possibility of someone crazily overpaying.

Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Manager's Assistant For Kirk Gibson Commission. A non-profit organization.
Founder and Chairman of the Hire A Body Double For David Hernandez's Right Arm Commission. A non-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 25, 2011 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

If the D'Backs could obtain Kuroda

under the terms you have outlined, I would do it in a heartbeat.

by azjazzman on Jun 25, 2011 4:27 AM EDT reply actions  

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