The Sucktastic Six
by C. Wesley Baier on Jun 11, 2011 4:02 PM EDT
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PrintAfter last night's discussion in the game day thread, I wrote an article about the dreaded sucktastic six. Originally I had seven, with Joe Saunders as the seventh member, but i realized he hasn't been that bad. The current roster for the Sucktastic Six is: Willie Bloomquist, Sean Burroughs, Xavier Nady, Melvin Mora, Aaron Heilman, and Juan Gutierrez. After talking to Jim, I thought making a fanpost to get some discussion on this would be a good thing.
Do you agree with the members of the Sucktastic Six? Are there any guys you would add or subtract? Who should we replace the members with?
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Anyone that is facing a twi on the Snakepit
Typing While Intoxicated
9th inning back to back to back homeruns - NO FORGET that just give us a run and let us win
Bloomquist is Serviceable
If only because he can play SS, LF, 2B and 3B. He has a little speed and can pinch run too. He shouldn’t be a regular starter but I wouldn’t put him on the sucktastic list.
by sonic barracuda on Jun 11, 2011 4:36 PM EDT reply actions
The problem is that Willie is not very good at any of those positions.
He’s a sub-par fielder with a sub-par bat that gets by on his versatility
if you're not reading my stuff at sportshaze.com/phoenix, please do, because I like money.
by C. Wesley Baier on Jun 11, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Well,
if we had someone with any legitimate experience at playing SS, that’d be a bigger deal.
Unless you would’ve kept Josh Wilson instead?
HEY, FRENCHY! STAR TREK OR STAR WARS?
Where did you get
the ERA figures in your article?
DFA Melvin Mora and Aaron Heilman. I beg you, Towers.
b-ref
if you're not reading my stuff at sportshaze.com/phoenix, please do, because I like money.
by C. Wesley Baier on Jun 11, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah my editor screwed that up.
Half of those era figures should be ERA+
if you're not reading my stuff at sportshaze.com/phoenix, please do, because I like money.
by C. Wesley Baier on Jun 11, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the world might end
if Heilman and Gutierrez put up the ERA’s that you had down. :-)
DFA Melvin Mora and Aaron Heilman. I beg you, Towers.
Not my fault.
It was right when I wrote. Apparently my editor has not heard of the ERA+ statistic.
if you're not reading my stuff at sportshaze.com/phoenix, please do, because I like money.
by C. Wesley Baier on Jun 11, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I lol'd
I was in horror when I noticed the changes though. Temporarily screwed up my whole article.
if you're not reading my stuff at sportshaze.com/phoenix, please do, because I like money.
by C. Wesley Baier on Jun 11, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
He had a few bad outings
One which featured an injury. Galarraga belongs more.
Hielman's ERAs should be ERA+
Just noticed that.
if you're not reading my stuff at sportshaze.com/phoenix, please do, because I like money.
by C. Wesley Baier on Jun 11, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Should be fixed.
I think one of the editors was going over it too fast to notice that i was using ERA+ as a statistic.
if you're not reading my stuff at sportshaze.com/phoenix, please do, because I like money.
by C. Wesley Baier on Jun 11, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
The last 2 runs he was injured and got no outs.
And he started at 10 something. He’s also had quite a few other runners left on score.
I don't think Nady should be in there.
He’s only 3 points behind Chris Young in wRC+, that’s gotta say something about how he’s played. (or how bad Young has been this year, he’s 1 point from being league-average).
Mora and Bloomquist though are TERRIBLE. Bloomquist is in the bottom 35 in MLB in wRC+, Mora is 4th worst!
The difference
is that Young plays center, and Nady plays the two biggest power positions on the field, first and left.
DFA Melvin Mora and Aaron Heilman. I beg you, Towers.
I don't mind Nady
He has 20 RBI’s in 100 AB’s. I am not a big fan of Parra’s. I’m ready to see Cowgill in the show.
by DiamondbacksWIn on Jun 11, 2011 4:55 PM EDT reply actions
Parra has the best UZR in ALL of MLB
You really want to take out the best fielder in baseball? His bat isn’t that bad.
by 7Insomniac on Jun 11, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would like to use him as 4th outfielder
I would like to have a LF who can hit the ball a little better and get on base a little more.
by DiamondbacksWIn on Jun 11, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
His defense should have him playing everyday.
He’s 6th on our team for WAR. He’s almost league average in wRC+. His defense is too good to have sitting on the bench. Especially when he’s almost creating as much runs as Young.
I’ve been a big critic of Parra in the past. He’s impressed me a lot. Parra is an average hitter, and a godly defender. You need these type of players playing everyday if you want a winning team.
by 7Insomniac on Jun 11, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
I’ve been a huge critic of Parra over the years, but he’s really converted me to a believer this year. If he can improve his hitting a little, he’s definitely an every day player. Even now he should be playing every day.
if you're not reading my stuff at sportshaze.com/phoenix, please do, because I like money.
by C. Wesley Baier on Jun 11, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Was briefly discussing this with Nick Piecoro on Twitter — Nick thought that Parra’s BB rate was mostly buoyed by IBBs, hitting in the 8 spot.
It is buoyed, but even without the IBBs it’s higher this year.
But he’s shown better plate discipline, even better defense, better baserunning, etc.
HEY, FRENCHY! STAR TREK OR STAR WARS?
please
we all know in year’s past Parra would have found a way to either strikeout or groundout against an IBB
by blue bulldog on Jun 13, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Parra has been one of the best defensive players in the game.
11.4 UZR in left field.
if you're not reading my stuff at sportshaze.com/phoenix, please do, because I like money.
by C. Wesley Baier on Jun 11, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Parra's D has finally won me over
For as much crap as we gave him last year, seeing his arm out in left has convinced me he deserves to stay.
"Never ignore a coincidence. Unless you're busy, in which case always ignore a coincidence."
It's pretty crazy
that everyone is a Parra fan now, but last year, the general feeling about him was that he was pretty bad. I thought so also. Now I’m on the Parra bandwagon.
DFA Melvin Mora and Aaron Heilman. I beg you, Towers.
Not on the bandwagon
Cowgill would likely give you plus defense as well. Maybe not Parra’s numbers, but still plus. And whoever thinks Para’s bat is not that bad. I’m sorry, but for LF, it is really bad. I’m not on the bandwagon for a one-tool player. I honestly don’t know Cowgill’s arm strength, but he can hit for average, he can run, he has a little power and he’s a plus defender. He deserves the opportunity to outplay a one-tool player. Can he do it in the majors? There’s only one way to find out.
by sonic barracuda on Jun 11, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
splitting hairs
but Cowgill’s arm strength is pretty good. he’s probably not a plus defender though. most scouts only have him at above average.
i do like Cowgill though, and would love to have him called up. i think most posters just want to point out that Parra is the least of our concerns right now.
by blue bulldog on Jun 11, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Even just going by batting,
if we take only qualified NL hitters, all of our other position starters are above league average, except RF and 1B. We can make up for a deficit in LF.
By wRC+: (rank is among qualified NL starters at that position)
RyRo 124 (1st)
Drew 125 (2nd)
Miggy 120 (2nd)
KJ 100 (6th)
CY 100 (7th)
Those are the guys above average.
Upton 132 (8th) is the league median, so call him the average RF. (Even though he’s the best hitter on OUR team)
If we lower minimum standards to include Miranda & Parra at 1B and LF, Juan Miranda (117) is 10th among NL 1Bs (but hey, better than Ryan Howard (116) or erstwhile Dbacks 1B Adam LaRoche (58)) and Gerardo Parra is 8th (98) among LFs.
We can handle a guy with a slightly below-league-average bat in LF by making up for it in other positions.
HEY, FRENCHY! STAR TREK OR STAR WARS?
by DbacksSkins on Jun 13, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
there are only 10 "qualified" right fielders
And right field is especially strong this year.
In all of MLB, there are 62 “qualified” outfielders….and Justin ranks 17th in RC+
Drop the PA’s threshold to 150 and he is 20th out of 96 outfielders.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
I know.
But I’m gonna take it over some guy with 6 games and a 5 game hitting streak.
Any value taken from all those ranks assume that other teams are playing their best options at each starting spot, and that their starting guys have qualified.
I did stack the deck slightly, though.
HEY, FRENCHY! STAR TREK OR STAR WARS?
...of course,
60+ games of UZR (or however many he’s actually played) is still a pretty SSS.
HEY, FRENCHY! STAR TREK OR STAR WARS?
One full season of UZR is also a SSS
It’s like 1/3 of a season of at bats.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
At the same time
If Parra posts a FGutierrez-like UZR this year, he’s a really freaking good fielder. It’d be like Pujols hitting .500/.650/.800 for the first 40 games of the year and people screaming “SSS!!! SSS!!!!!!”
http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/
by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 15, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
(okay, maybe not *quite* like that, but y'know)
http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/
by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 15, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
The only one I might subtract from that is Gutierrez.
Just because this year we haven’t seen that much of him, with injuries and all that, and I feel like if we DFA him this year it would be because of last year’s performance. Though I wouldn’t go crazy if he was DFA. Probably would bring up Cowgill for Bloomquist, Goldie or Allen for Nady, Anyone in the world for Burroughs and Mora, and maybe Mickolio for Heilman. Bryan Shaw looked alright last night too, I wouldn’t mind him staying for a while.
"First of all, Life Sucks. Alright? Period. Done deal. You got it? There's your lesson. Enjoy it."-Coach McGuirk, Home Movies.
by BulldogsNotZags on Jun 11, 2011 5:40 PM EDT reply actions
Considering how good he's been the past two septembers
Cutting him would be a mistake. He’s a bit of slow starter out of the gate but the second half is when he needs to pitch well and has
In other news 7-0 Reds
We’re not losing ground tonight.
I would rename it the 'Farkin four
Bloomquist for his versatility and base running merits a begrudging place on the roster, call him player #25. I would keep Nady on as well, he’s hit well enough to merit his spot. The other four could go and I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
Wasn't Bloomquist a 'Pit Favorite
earlier this season? How soon we turn. How soon before RyRo joins the list?
Riding the Gibbytrain since 2011!
Rockstarr would NEVER allow that.
"First of all, Life Sucks. Alright? Period. Done deal. You got it? There's your lesson. Enjoy it."-Coach McGuirk, Home Movies.
by BulldogsNotZags on Jun 11, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
You're darn right I wouldn't!
Tonight he turned things around for himself
"There are 3 types of baseball players: those who make it happen, those who watch it happen, & those who wonder what happens." -Tommy Lasorda
"When you want to win a game, you have to teach. When you lose a game, you have to learn." ~Tom Landry
by Rockkstarr12 on Jun 11, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair,
Roberts has been a ’pit favorite for a lot longer than Bloomquist. We liked him a lot last year, too.
It's the stuff that dreams are made of
It's the slow and steady fire
by 4 Corners Fan on Jun 11, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair,
lots of people were predicting that Bloomquist will end up where he’s currently at.
by blue bulldog on Jun 11, 2011 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
"There are 3 types of baseball players: those who make it happen, those who watch it happen, & those who wonder what happens." -Tommy Lasorda
"When you want to win a game, you have to teach. When you lose a game, you have to learn." ~Tom Landry
by Rockkstarr12 on Jun 11, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I think putting Nady in is a bit unfair
He hasn’t been great, yes, but has been a very serviceable backup at first and left field. On days where the rest of the starters play he is the best pinch-hitting bat we have. He’s delivered with some clutch hits and key RBIs and hasn’t done too badly on defense either. X is not an exciting player, and not a player I would replace any of the normal starters with (Parra’s defense makes up for light hitting, and Miranda’s power potential outweighs his many shortcomings) but he is definitely not “Sucktastic.”
The problem is that Nady plays a premium offensive position.
He’s not as terrible as Mora, but he’s still not very good either when you consider the other in house options(Collin Cowgill, Goldschmidt, Brandon Allen)
if you're not reading my stuff at sportshaze.com/phoenix, please do, because I like money.
by C. Wesley Baier on Jun 11, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem as I see it
is that Nady is a bench bat, that gets enough playing time to be a pseudo-starter.
He shouldn’t be getting this many at-bats, he just is. That’s mostly on Gibby.
by blue bulldog on Jun 11, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Could be that to be a productive bench bat
he needs some playing time to do so.
Agreed
He should be the person in the role that Burroughs is currently taking.
And we should get someone who can legitimately play the field to replace Burroughs on the roster and Nady in the field. Cowgill.
http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/
by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 12, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that all of those guys should be given a shot
But Burroughs, Mora, and Bloomquist are (in that order) lower on the pecking order, in my opinion.
The Loathsome Threesome
Sean Burroughs, Aaron Heilman, and Juan Gutierrez. Everyone else is fine (yes, even Melvin Mora) when you consider what the other NL West teams are running out there (Miguel Tejada starting for the Giants?!)
Just because other teams suck at decision-making
doesn’t mean we should suck alongside them.
by blue bulldog on Jun 11, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
You forgot Geoff "2 yr" Blum
He deserves to be on this list even though he hasn’t played.
The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.
Nice work
The bWar are as follows:
Bloomquist -.1
Burroughs -.2
Heilman -.8
Mora -.5
Guitierres -.5
Nady .3
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ARI/2011.shtml
The lack of PT keeps Burroughs time. With some time, he could add to his negativity.
Mora is only at .5 because his D gives him a positive .2
Heilman’s -.8 is impressive as he has only pitched 20 innings and has a 21/6 k/w (can this be right?). I don’t know how bWar pitching is calculated (and could not find out at the site). If someone can point me to it, it would be appreciated.
The result is that, excluding Nady, the ____ (name to be named later) five have cost us -2.1 games as compared to a replacement. And this is in only a little over a third of a season. Who can rid us of these troublesome players?
bWAR is straight ERA
fWAR is FIP – it’s why Heilman is more acceptable by fWAR.
http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/
by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 12, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
On the position side
the good news, as Dave Cameron recently pointed out, is that our worst performers are essentially all bench players, which is what you want because it limits the scope of neg WAR.
Sounds simple, but take a look around the division – at what starters like Huff, Loney, Furcal and Ian Stewart are doing to their respective teams. We dont have any ball and chain like that, sucking the offense dry on a daily basis. It’s actually an extremely well balanced lineup in that regard. Perhaps our nearest parallel is Mora, but his PT is already limited / compromised.
by Diamondhacks on Jun 12, 2011 3:49 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good post
Deserves a hearty rec.
http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/
by Dan Strittmatter on Jun 12, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotta admit that 4 each wins and holds
while sucking is a good trick, even if they are meaningless stats for a reliever.
Agree these guys have mostly stunk
But (IMO) that only matters if we have somebody better to replace them with:
- Mora could go to give Ryro full time 3rd base reps, and we have 3rd basemen in the minors for later years, so no loss there
- Nady could go so we could bring up Cowgill and see if he can hit major league pitching. A Cowgill/Parra platoon might have legs for a few years, even.
- Burroughs could be DFAd to give Goldschmidt a roster spot.
- Heilman and Guti I would keep for now, but not use in any high leverage situations.
I still think this team is a year or two away from being truly competitive. I wouldn’t trade away any decent prospects for short time rentals this year.
Bloomquist and Nady
shouldn’t be on that list. Perhaps Vasquez ? Heilman can have 3 spots on your list of 6 ??? Solutions by UPS.
If you'd have been a dog.....
They would of drowned you at birth.
Why not simplify it,
and give him all six?
"Oh, time is short and the days are sweet and passion rules the arrow that flies
A million faces at my feet but all I see are dark eyes"
B. Dylan
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