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Around SBN: In Crunch Time, Spurs Don't Change Their Game

If Josh Byrnes Had Not Happened... An Alternative History Of The Diamondbacks

I'm a fan of alternate history fiction. in which writers explore "What if X had happened?", where X is a change in history. Foe example, Fatherland, a book by Robert Harris (and subsequent HBO movie), is set in a world where Germany won World War II. It tends to make me appreciate how a tiny change in circumstances, at the right point, can cause a massive change down the line - the "butterfly effect". Baseball exhibits this often: the difference between a game-winning grand-slam and the final out can be mere millimeters on the bat.

I've been chewing over one particular "what if?" scenario, in regard to the Diamondbacks. What if Josh Byrnes had not been appointed as the team's general manager in November 2005? How might things have unfolded subsequently, and what state would the team be in now? After the jump, we'll take a look. Pack a lunch, this is a long one...

Star-divide

Before we get into this, an important note. None of this is meant to denigrate Byrnes, who is a smart, savvy guy; I had the chance to talk to him on a couple of occasions, and always enjoyed the experience enormously. Hindsight is 20/20, and many of the moves which now seem questionable, were ones I was (and/or most of us were) on board with at the time. Still, those who won't learn from the past are condemned to repeat it. So this is more of an effort to see if we can learn anything, than an exercise in finger-pointing.

The "butterfly" in this case was probably the infamous extension given to Eric Byrnes, which has been deemed responsible at various times for the trade of Carlos Gonzalez, the need to trade Jose Valverde and, in some corners of AZ Central, the election of Barack Obama. There certainly was a knock-on effect from the move, both in terms of outfield positions and resources that could be used elsewhere - though with regard to the latter, as shoewizard mentioned to me, "That 30 million has probably been allocated to cover 100 million worth of holes over the years... " But it's only one of several significant  "mistakes" made ob Byrnes' watch: In chronological order:

  • December 8th 2005: Dan Uggla unprotected in Rule 5 draft
  • August 7, 2007: Eric Byrnes extension
  • December 3, 2007: Carlos Quentin trade:
  • December 14, 2007: Dan Haren trade
  • December 14, 2007: Jose Valverde trade

Analyzing the value of these and the other deals done by Byrnes, in terms of strict WAR, would be a significant undertaking. Fortunately, I don't have to, because Beyond the Box Score's Chris Spurlock has, with effort that can only be mocked as hopelessly nerdy applauded, analyzed every trade in the majors since the start of 2006. He has come up with totals for each team, in terms of WAR sent vs. WAR received, and it's not pretty for the Diamondbacks. Over the time period covered, Arizona's total was worse than every other National League team bar the Cubs - and that doesn't even include the 14.9 WAR Uggla has produced for the Marlins.

This isn't necessarily disastrous. Dead last in the majors are the current AL champion Rangers, at a whopping -60.8.  That's mostly because of trades which sent Adrian Gonzalez to San Diego, and Mark Teixeira to Atlanta. Between them, those two alone have accumulated over 42 WAR since leaving Texas, and one can only speculate whether the Rangers might have won the World Series, if they'd somehow held on to those two. While I've some issues with the method (I'll get into those below), it's worth going through the Diamondbacks results in full, to see what light they shed on the Byrnes era.

Things started brightly enough, with 2006's moves resulting in a +9.7 WAR, the bulk of that coming from acquiring Doug Davis, and dumping Alex Cintron. But as you can imagine, 2007 was a disaster. The trades in that year were a net loss of 28.0 WAR. Obviously, the jewel turned out to be Carlos Gonzalez (7.7 WAR), but you might be surprised to learn that who tied with Brett Anderson as the second most-valuable player we lost, at 4.7 WAR. Not Carlos Quentin or even Jose Valverde, but Alberto Callaspo. Still, we kept the moral high-ground, so that's worth something, eh? All told, we dealt away six players in 2007, who have posted 3.3 or higher WAR since.

2008 was basically flat, but 2009 was another apparently bad season, costing the team 11.2 WAR with Max Scherzer, Felipe Lopez and Jon Garland the main culprits. However, it does show one of the weaknesses in the approach: it punishes teams for trading players in their contract year. The total includes WAR posted by Garland in this season, after he became a free-agent and signed with the Padres; charging us with those wins seems a tad harsh. 2010 was close to flat as well (-2.4, due to the departures of Edwin Jackson and Haren), but those were moves made with an eye on the future. But let's look at one day of deals - December 14, 2007 - in detail.

Dan Haren: Traded by the Oakland Athletics with Connor Robertson to the Arizona Diamondbacks for Brett Anderson, Chris Carter, Aaron Cunningham, Dana Eveland, Carlos Gonzalez and Greg Smith.

Player
2008
2009
2010
Dan Haren 4.8
6.0
3.2
Connor Robertson 0.0


Brett Anderson
2.4
2.3
Chris Carter

-0.5
Aaron Cunningham 0.0
-0.6
0.4
Dana Eveland 1.6
-0.8
-1.0
Carlos Gonzalez 1.1
2.1
4.5
Greg Smith 2.0

-0.3
TOTAL 0.1
2.9
-2.2

Haren's WAR total for 2010 includes what he achieved after being traded to the Angels, but this is a trade that didn't really live up to the belief that it would help us "win now". While we knew the long-term prognosis, the 2008-2010 years were when we expected it to be in our favor - but over those three seasons, the net benefit to Arizona was just 0.6 WAR, nowhere near enough to offset the far-greater cost of Haren. Even in the first year, the trade was close to a wash; while Haren's strong 2009 tilted things in Arizona's direction, the arrival of CarGon last year wiped out most of that advantage. From here on, it's only going to get uglier, folks.

Jose Valverde: Traded by the Arizona Diamondbacks to the Houston Astros for Chris Burke, Juan Gutierrez and Chad Qualls.

Player
2008
2009
2010
Jose Valverde
1.3
2.0
1.2
Chris Burke
-0.1
-0.7

Juan Gutierrez

0.7
-0.4
Chad Qualls
1.5
0.8
-3.0
TOTAL
0.1
-1.2
-4.6

This was a different kind of trade, dealing away someone whose price was about to get high, for players who were younger, cheaper and collectively, potentially better. Didn't work out that way, did it? While Jose has continued being more or less Jose [albeit for an increasing salary], the players we obtained have gone South like meth-crazed geese. Last season, one didn't play in the majors and the other two were worse than replacement for the Diamondbacks. Even discounting Burke's negative contribution to the Padres in 2009, the three players we received have combined, to date, for -0.5 WAR. We migh have been better off just giving Valverde to the Astros.

What kind of a roster might the 2010 Diamondbacks have had? We're now getting into the seriously-hypothetical, but let's see what could have happened. Here are the rules of the game: players either were on the Diamondbacks' roster at some point in 2005, or were drafted by the team subsequently. No-one acquired in a trade by Josh Byrnes can be included. 

Name 2010 ERA+/OPS+ 2010 WAR 2010 Salary
C Miguel Montero
103 1.4 $2m
1B
2B Dan Uggla
130 3.7 $7.8m
SS Stephen Drew
113 3.3 $3.4m
3B Mark Reynolds
98 0.8 $833K
LF
CF Carlos Gonzalez
143 4.5 $406K
RF Justin Upton
111 3.8 $3.8m
Bench
Bench
Bench
Bench
Bench
SP1 Brett Anderson
148 2.3 $410K
SP2 Max Scherzer
120 3.3 $1.5m
SP3 Ross Ohlendorf 100 2.0 $439K
SP4 Barry Enright
109 1.4 $400K
SP5
Closer Jose Valverde
140 1.2 $6.9m
SU1 Brandon Lyon
125 2.0 $4.25m
SU2 Darren Oliver
175 1.7 $3m
MR Javier Lopez
176 0.9 $775K
MR Sergio Santos
148 1.4 $400K*
LOOGY Doug Slaten
131 0.3 $450K**
Long Dustin Nippert
101 0.4 $665K

* Santos was an infielder when with us, but was converted to a pitcher
** Approximate 2010 salary

Obviously, it's not complete. We're short a 1B, a LF, the bench and a starter [in case you're wondering. He Who Shall Not Be Named wasn't worth including, at only 0.1 WAR last year for the White Sox, after a -0.5 WAR season in 2009] But as a core, that seems a very solid bunch of players, at a low cost and with a lot of future control. All told, the position players cost $18.2 million and produced 17.5 WAR; the pitchers, $19.15 million (the vast majority of it going to the bullpen), for 17.1 WAR. Even if you assume the remaining eight roster spots were minimum cost and replacement level, that's an overall total of about $40.6 million in payroll, for 34.6 WAR.

It's certainly a lot better than the team actually managed [16.9 WAR], and roughly in line with the Padres, who accumulated 35.4 WAR, and almost made it to the playoffs. Interesting to speculate on how things might have progressed for Arizona, had we not outperformed Pythagoras and won the division in 2007, despite getting out-scored by the opposition that year. Say, if we'd performed as expected going 79-83 - a little better than the previous year, but only good enough for fourth-place. No Sedona Red Kool-Aid, thinking we were on the verge of a dynasty, with 2008-10 a golden window of opportunity for multiple championships. Turned out that was a mirage.

Nice though 2007 was, there seems little doubt that the moves made in the wake of that success were massive failures. They did not deliver subsequent success, and decimated a farm system, the 2006 version of which was recently ranked the best of the entire decade. If we had simply stood pat, with what we had, it seems certain the franchise would be in a much stronger position now. Based on the numbers above, the D-backs 2010 win total would likely have been somewhere around the mid-80's,.at least, rather than going 67-95 and as a result, facing an up-hill struggle to reach .500 this year.

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A few things worth noting

1 FanGraphs WAR would change a lot here, and I’d prefer it here since this is so speculative. Enright would be down a lot, Qualls wouldn’t be so horrifying, etc.

2 Guys like Lopez and Nippert were AAAA guys until they left AZ. Can’t really assume that they just slot right in.

3. Lots of those guys just had good luck last year – I’m looking at you, CarGo.

4. I’d make the Valverde trade again. There’s no telling if Valverde wouldn’t have run into the same bad luck that ran over Qualls like a semi. We saved money, got roster filler, and netted a good setup man in one fell swoop. Brilliant trade.

http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/

by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 5, 2011 9:19 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Where's that quizzical owl when you need him...
We saved money, got roster filler, and netted a good setup man in one fell swoop. Brilliant trade.

We could have non-tendered Valverde, if we just wanted to save money… And who is the “good set-up man” of which you speak? Gutierrez and his 97 ERA+ with Arizona?

Roster filler. Yeah. We traded the NL leader in saves for two near replacement level players [even by Fangraphs, Gutierrez has posted a whopping total of 0.4 WAR since the trade] and Chad Qualls. Brilliant! :-)

Sarcasm aside, I was entirely on board with the trade too, at the time. But there’s no denying, based on subsequent performance, the team would have been better off keeping Valverde, even at the higher cost.

"While Mrs. SnakePit watched one of the most highly acclaimed films of the year, I sat through a badly made schlock fest with absolutely no redeeming value. And it was awesome."

by Jim McLennan on Feb 5, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Really great article. Thanks for keeping our "life before baseball" less dull!

I do have to side with IHSB on this one though.

I almost always prefer fWAR over rWAR, which is what I assume this table was based off of. Regarding the Valverde deal, this is, in my opinion, the problem with only looking at WAR totals as opposed to surplus value. I don’t know what Valverde cost in 2008 (I’m randomly guessing around $6 million) but he cost the Astros $8 million in 2009 and cost Detroit $8 million in 2010. It seems regardless of what WAR we use to measure the deal, we totally win out on this one in terms of surplus value in 2008 and 2009. In 2010, I honestly think Qualls never recovered from that disastrous injury in 2009, which is a complete fluke that could have happened to Valverde as well. Besides, we shouldn’t even be able to compare 2010, because by that time Valverde had been a FA and I feel we were guaranteed to let him go.

At least with the Valverde trade, I feel confident in saying it was not only the right decision at the time, but that we also definitely “won” the trade when looking back.

by blue bulldog on Feb 6, 2011 12:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Dammit, I had a full reply

And then left the page without posting it. Quick recap:

I’m afraid I can’t trust Fangraphs WAR, not when it lists the 2010 D-backs as 32 wins above replacement – in other words, an 80-win club! – and tells me with a straight face that Chad Qualls and his 8.29 ERA was more valuable than Barry Enright or Aaron Heilman. Those numbers fail the smell test very badly.

2008. Valverde was only $4.7 million. Our three totaled $2.6m – Burke alone was nearly a million! – so while there was surplus value, it wasn’t a lot, less than a win.

2009. Valverde $8m, our trio around $4m. But given Valverde was worth 1.2 WAR more, I certainly can’t see this as “we totally win out”. More of a wash.

2010. Qualls appeared in 70 games, so hard to claim “injury”, I feel. Even if we discount Valverde entirely, the negative production of Q and Gutierrez make this season an unmitigated disaster and send the trade heavily into the red.

Overall. Valverde (discounting 2010 as a free agent) in 2008-2009 = $12.7m, 3.3 WAR. Our trio in 2008-10 = $11.1 million, -1.2 WAR. I’m not seeing surplus value there. What there was in the first two seasons evaporated, and more beside, last year.

"While Mrs. SnakePit watched one of the most highly acclaimed films of the year, I sat through a badly made schlock fest with absolutely no redeeming value. And it was awesome."

by Jim McLennan on Feb 6, 2011 3:24 AM EST up reply actions  

i think

we have two differences

the first, which i think we just have to agree to disagree, is that i trust fWAR more than rWAR and you trust rWAR more than fWAR. since, in my opinion, this is more a matter of taste, than a matter of who is absolutely right, we can really just agree to disagree. i would just like to point out though, that if we were to base the argument on fWAR, we definitely won (or at least as close to definitely as possible) because Qualls/Gutierrez/Burke combined for 3.5 WAR + Gutierrez’s future value versus Valverde’s 1.4 WAR + future value from Valverde’s comp picks (which we have no idea how will turn out yet). but again, fWAR versus rWAR in my opinion is really a matter of taste, and i see no real purpose into getting another debate about the two…

the second issue, is sort of also a matter of taste, or perhaps, interpretation. i guess for me, even assuming using rWAR, i don’t like to punish the outcome of the trade because Qualls got his knee dislocated late in 2009. i think people underestimate how much even random injuries can mess up the mechanics of a pitcher. which is why, i don’t even think it’s an issue of Qualls being unlucky with a BABIP of 386. i honestly believe, he got injured, it affected his mechanics, he lost “stuff,” and thus got hit hard. i mean, you can’t honestly think, a reliever who posted (and i can’t believe i’m using ERA, but since we’re talking about rWAR) ERA’s of 3.05, 2.81, and 3.63 for three years straight just “naturally” ended up with a 7.32 ERA in 2010 right? doesn’t that just scream some outside factor? i guess what i’m saying is, our trade outcome shouldn’t be punished by this outside factor that affected our result, because the chance that this outside factor affects any given pitcher is the same (since i’m assuming the outside factor was a freak injury)

by blue bulldog on Feb 6, 2011 5:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the two WARs measure somewhat different things. Fangraphs numbers with their use of FIP, are perhaps a better predictor going forward, but in terms of “actual” value and worth, I’d go with BR’s version. No-one ever won Cy Young because of their sparkling FIP. :-)

With Qualls, it’s pure conjecture with regard to the injury. Conversely. his FIP of 4.13 was close to his career average of 3.76, and his fast-ball, for example, lost only .7 mph on 2009. I’d need clear evidence of something like that before I was convinced that was the reason.

But, in the end, I’m not concerned about why the trade was a bad one, merely that it was. And, in terms of actual (rather than theoretical) performance, it was.

"While Mrs. SnakePit watched one of the most highly acclaimed films of the year, I sat through a badly made schlock fest with absolutely no redeeming value. And it was awesome."

by Jim McLennan on Feb 6, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

There are other factors that were involved in Qualls’ difficulties. It was obvious he had not quite fully rehab’d from his knee injury. Whatever tendon(s) in his knee were obviously weaker, and that could have been sufficient for him to lose just enough precision to throw off his pitches ever so slightly, That may have decreased his margin of error just enough to move him from being an effective pitcher to an ineffective one. Moreover, I thought he lost some movement on his fastball, which shouldn’t be too surprising, given the injury. A flat fastball looks like a beachball in the eyes of a professional hitter.

If Qualls’ offseason training regimen is strong and he fully recovers his strength, I kind of expect to see a rebound season for him this year.

The Great and Mighty....

by NASCARbernet on Feb 6, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I would argue that it is more valuable than what Enright or Heilman did...

But that’s a whole different beast of an argument – was it all luck, or was there something wrong or was he just bad? We can never know the real factors that attributed to the crapitude and in what proportions. But Qualls was a fine pitcher in 2010 – people just hit his fine pitches.

http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/

by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 6, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

"But Qualls was a fine pitcher in 2010 – people just hit his fine pitches."

I presume this was the line his agent took in the off-season. :-)

"While Mrs. SnakePit watched one of the most highly acclaimed films of the year, I sat through a badly made schlock fest with absolutely no redeeming value. And it was awesome."

by Jim McLennan on Feb 6, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I think his .386 BABIP

Did that for his agent.

http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/

by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 7, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Your BABIP is going to be higher when everything hit off you goes off or over the wall

by Silence on Feb 7, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats not quite true

BABIP stands for Batting Avg. on Balls in Play. It is simply measuring balls that are in play that can be fielded by the fielders. Homeruns are not counted in BABIP, as they are not “in play” or fieldable balls.

Pitchers who have an unusually high BABIP in a single season, especially ones that had normal, or league avg BABIPS in previous seasons, are most likely the victim of some bad luck.

Coming into 2009, Qualls career BABIP against was .294

In 2010, it was the aforementioned .386…(actually .394 according to baseball reference.com….they count a few things differently…but same thing really)

Clearly Qualls had some bad luck in 2010 on balls in play turning into hits at an inordinantly high rate.

He did give up 5 HR in 39 IP as a D Back. It felt like more than that……but thats not such a high rate as to expect the kind of results he got overall. Alot of bad timing there obviously.

All of the “component” measurements of ERA suggest Qualls should have had an ERA somewhere around 4 Last year……and even if you add in the “gack” factor, and figure he was grooving a lot of pitches that were getting smoked, he really was unlucky to have an 8 ERA. He really wasn’t quite that bad

The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.

by shoewizard on Feb 7, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm not sure if it was bad luck

when i see a number that drastically different, i think, something’s wrong with his stuff, and maybe it has to do with the injury from 2009 affecting his mechanics

by blue bulldog on Feb 8, 2011 2:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong

He was bad last year. He was “groovy”….

But he didn’t deserve an 8 ERA. 5 maybe. Thats still not good.

Pitchfx indicates very little degradation of stuff. Maybe a half mph slower on the FB, and a little less Horizontal movement……but not enough difference to say he had lousy stuff.

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.aspx?playerid=2170&position=P

The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.

by shoewizard on Feb 8, 2011 8:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Ummm over the wall?

That’s out of play. And Qualls got plenty of grounders last year.

http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/

by Dan Strittmatter on Feb 8, 2011 2:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Down on 2009.

Link
1.95 GO/AO – still way better than MLB average, but also well below the 2.47 in 2009. His walks also shot up (7.5% against 3.2%) and K’s were down (17.4% vs. 20.7%).

"While Mrs. SnakePit watched one of the most highly acclaimed films of the year, I sat through a badly made schlock fest with absolutely no redeeming value. And it was awesome."

by Jim McLennan on Feb 8, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

As tempting for me as it is...

I’m going to try and resist beating up on JB as much as I can.

I thought he believed his mission was to put an East-Coast style team here in the desert, with the assumption that lots of runs would equate to filled stadiums. In fact, that may have been the message he received when he was hired. When he took over, the franchise was in shambles.

But he clearly had not fully righted the listed ship. I didn’t think he was a particularly good judge of talent, and I really didn’t think he understood pitching, which may have proved to be his real Achilles’ Heal.

The Great and Mighty....

by NASCARbernet on Feb 5, 2011 10:27 PM EST reply actions  

Whats done is done.

Haren was good while he was here. Byrnes could not of predicted that Webb would be out for two years. If we had him who knows how much better we could have been.

Also Chris Young>Carlos Quentin

by txzona on Feb 5, 2011 10:43 PM EST reply actions  

I thought he gambled his job on Webb’s return. When I saw that video of Webb’s throwing a bull pen session from the catcher’s perspective early last season, it was obvious he was throwing at a high school level, and that level would take a lot of time and effort to recover, if at all.

The Great and Mighty....

by NASCARbernet on Feb 6, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm going

to vommmmmmmit.

Your dreck puts the "ick" in esoteric.

by soco on Feb 6, 2011 12:56 AM EST reply actions  

Top work Jim

Great read as always fine sir!

It’s gutting to think ‘what could have been’ but in my own opinion luck wasn’t kind to JB and a lot of what makes these trades look so bad has been beyond his control.

There’s no way that EB22 should have sucked so damn hard, and it wasn’t the GM’s fault he busted his hamstrings before the 08 season. Similarly the loss of players like Uggla and CarGon could have been made up for had Chris Young, Drew, Reynolds, Connor Jackson, The Dead Horse, Chris Snyder and co all continued to develop rather then the stop-start and unpredictable nature of their performances since coming to the big leagues 07.

The Webb injury was also an absolute killer, with him fit and healthy we still finished at .500 in 2008 and a rotation that included a healthy Haren and a fit Webb would almost certainly have helped win more games, and perhaps helped our battered and terrible bullpen out.

The Valverde trade made sense at the time, Burke shouldn’t have sucked THAT hard, while Qualls was starting to look the part until his knee blew out at the end of 2009. Had Qualls remained at his end of 09 level for 2010 then the trade wouldn’t look nearly as bad.

It all could have been so different but sadly the way the chips have fallen have made JB’s trades look crippling for the team and in the end that’s why he’s no longer here.

Time for another drink then?

http://www.wimbles.wordpress.com

by Wimb on Feb 6, 2011 1:35 AM EST reply actions  

i was actually discussing

the first Dan Haren trade with paqs the other day, and we came to the conclusion that based on expected outcomes, the trade at the time was on face, fair. in the sense that, both sides got equal value out of the trade.

in fact, arguably, Haren completely out-performed expectations while he was with us, so if anything, we also got lucky that the trade didn’t turn out worse than it already is (we also got unlucky that Brett Anderson looks so good, and Cargo has turned into a monster).

the problem is, even though equal value was obtained in the trade at the time, in reflection, that type of trade is really unsuitable for teams like us. for one, timing was bad, as we out-performed out pythag and shouldn’t have pushed all-in with a big trade. the other thing is, as a mid-market team, i think we should be very risk averse. in other words, even with equal value trades, we shouldn’t make them if it concentrates the risk into one or two players. this didn’t happen, but just imagine what if dan haren had actually gotten injured a couple of starts after the trade? our market size isn’t one where we can afford to put too much money or assets (farm pieces) into any one player. so from this perspective, it’s a lot better to hold on to a lot of assets and hope enough of them will pan out and be decent, as opposed to getting one monster piece. in that respect, i think the trade for dan haren was a mistake.

by blue bulldog on Feb 6, 2011 5:49 AM EST reply actions  

Total WAR comparisons

Loved the article. Great stuff.

However, it seems to me that total WAR comparisons are a little shaky. Besides the surplus value argument above, it also seems to me that people who trade an established star (say a 5 WAR guy) for a a LOT of mediocre players (say 3 1.5 WAR guys) may end up with comparable WAR, but I don’t see that as an even swap. It’s easy to pick up 1.5 WAR guys. Maybe that’s the same point as surplus value, I don’t know, but that trade doesn’t seem equal to me. Although I have no data to back it up…

by Craig from Az on Feb 6, 2011 9:57 AM EST reply actions  

These mistakes aren't really that bad...
December 8th 2005: Dan Uggla unprotected in Rule 5 draft

Can’t really defend it, as I didn’t know much about the minor leagues in 2005 or how Dan Uggla was rated… so I’ll give you that one. Although a .789 OPS in 5 minor league seasons while being 25 isn’t too impressive.

August 7, 2007: Eric Byrnes extension

After putting up near 7 WAR in the 1.5 years before the extension, it wasn’t awful, especially considering what Aaron Rowand got (5/60MM after 6.8 WAR the two years before the signing). Byrnes also had a .865 OPS in ‘07 at the point of the signing. The big mistake was the no-trade clause, and we don’t really know for sure who was responsible for the signing anyways… so it’s possible that he would’ve been resigned even if JB wasn’t our GM.

December 3, 2007: Carlos Quentin trade:

Not really broken up about the loss of a replacement level player.

December 14, 2007: Dan Haren trade

Many people called the return “quantity over quality,” as I remember reading the reactions from reporters on MLBTR. We got a borderline ace for a guy who had star potential but serious questions about striking out way too much and plate discipline issues (and he will never repeat 2010, I can guarantee you), and a lefty who was more about polish than stuff (who wasn’t very good in Visalia, although it was a small sample size), a future DH, and crap. A potential star who was iffy and a good pitcher isn’t too much to give up for a star pitcher, when we made the trade thinking it would put us over the top. Most GMs would’ve pulled the trigger on that trade.

December 14, 2007: Jose Valverde trade

This was a smart trade. JB cashed in on Valverde, who is overrated by saves. Qualls put up 3.2 WAR in 2008-09 while Valverde put up 1.4 (I don’t count 2010 because Valverde wasn’t on the Astros, and wouldn’t be on the D’Backs if we hadn’t traded him). Whatever Gutierrez does is just a plus.

I’m not saying that JB was a great GM or anything, but I doubt we’d be in much better shape had we hired someone else.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 41

by Jdub220 on Feb 6, 2011 2:30 PM EST reply actions  

I think we got Haren and traded Valverde on the same day, and that was one of the best days of my life. I loved Haren as an A because I’m completely enamored with Billy Beane and anything the A’s touch, but the bigger part was my disdain for Valverde. I remember when we traded him he was doing his whole “one great year, one awful year” thing, and that was not the stability a good team should expect. Now of course we look like we got swindled, but I still don’t miss him.

by Silence on Feb 7, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

The A's

touched Eric Byrnes.

Your dreck puts the "ick" in esoteric.

by soco on Feb 8, 2011 10:57 PM EST up reply actions  

For the sake of completeness

Does this include Eric Byrnes’s WAR when playing for that softball team in California?

"Can we consider killing me an open-ended discussion point to be filed away for future meetings and come back to this another time?"

by kishi on Feb 6, 2011 9:40 PM EST reply actions  

2007

I remember back in 2007, I was a baseball fan, but not yet a dbacks fan. I was thinking at the time that the results of the 2007 were actually going to be a bad thing for the dbacks in the long run because now there was the expectation from fans, and wondered if the dbacks were going to succumb to the pressure. They were not a 90 win team, just ended up being lucky. What if we hadn’t won 90, but instead won 81? that means we don’t make the Haren trade, probably don’t give Byrnes the extension, give quentin a full-time shot at left field, and on and on.

by shibum78 on Feb 7, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

just imagine...

if the A’s decided to also have dealt brett anderson back into the NL West to torment us….

i still can’t believe cargo somehow ended up on the rockies. what a nightmare.

by blue bulldog on Feb 7, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Dear Josh Byrnes and Jeff Moorad:

Please saddle the Padres with an Eric-Byrnes-esque contract for an underperforming player. Thank you.

by venomfan on Feb 7, 2011 2:16 PM EST reply actions  

interesting fangraphs article from a year ago

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/eric-byrnes-2007-deal-a-contract-retrospective/

honestly, the Byrnes contract was not that bad. the problem, again similar to when we traded for Haren, is that we aren’t really in a market that can afford market-value contracts, and we REALLY cannot afford a market-value contract to go wrong. i actually didn’t start watching baseball much until 2008. so i never really saw Eric Byrnes when he was decent. but he really wasn’t that bad, and he did have good years before 2007, and his skill set is one that most agree ages well (look at why people think Carl Crawford’s contract is pretty good). i don’t know what happened in 2008 that really ruined Eric Byrnes, but i mean, in that respect, we got really unlucky.

by blue bulldog on Feb 8, 2011 2:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Poor use of resources

When you have Justin Upton, Chris Young, Carlos Quentin, Carlos Gonzalez, and even Scott Hairston, with Gerrardo Parra another rung or two lower in the minors, you just don’t need to allocate that kind of resources on an outfielder like Byrnes.

The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.

by shoewizard on Feb 8, 2011 8:26 AM EST up reply actions  

that's true

you definitely shouldn’t think of contracts in a vacuum.

however, from an economic decision-making standpoint (assuming identical risk profiles), i don’t think there really is much difference between A) signing eric byrnes to a market value contract and trading away your outfield prospects for pitching (with equivalent expected surplus value) versus B) letting byrnes go, signing pitching at market value, and generating the surplus value from outfield prospects

the first issue with the trade was that we got really unlucky. even though haren beat his expected surplus value, our prospects ended up beating their expected surplus value by even more. then there’s the fact that while byrnes’s contract was fair market value, in 2008 he just completely tanked (is that when the hamstring injuries started?)

the second issue, is a more fundamental decision-making problem i think. our risk profile isn’t identical to teams like the yankees/red sox. in part, that means that we really can’t afford to sign market-value contracts as much as other teams can. we should be trying to beat the market all the time. moreover, as a mid-market team, we should diversify our resources. the problem with Scenario A above is that all of your production comes from two resources (byrnes and haren) whereas in Scenario B your production comes from more diversity (pitcher we sign and whichever of our outfield prospects pan out). With Scenario B, you have a lot more flexibility, as opposed to Scenario A, where if one of byrnes/haren falls apart, you are done.

in my opinion, it is only in the last sense, where we lost a lot of flexibility, was the trade/signing a poor use of resources

by blue bulldog on Feb 8, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

My guess

is that the plan was to sign Byrnes so we could use Quentin and CarGo to get a big name pitcher… which is exactly what JB did.

Eric Byrnes at a not-awful salary at the time + big name pitcher > two prospects that could possibly not pan out + 10MM/yr (+Anderson… no big deal T_T) was probably the thinking, which I could understand. It just didn’t work out… Eric Byrnes turned into crap and 2/3 prospects turned out to be awesome.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 41

by Jdub220 on Feb 8, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

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