Diamondbacks Winter Meetings Hot Stove Update - December 7
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 7, 2011 3:37 PM EST
in Diamondbacks News
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Remember when we promised a dull and boring Winter Meetings week? So much for that. Arizona's name keeps popping up in the rumor mill, as the team tries to solidify its bench and starting rotation. For those living under a rock - or, I guess, those without a Twitter account whose follow list is 98% baseball-related - follow us after the break to see who the D-backs have been linked to and what rumors we can mindlessly speculate on for the next three hours until a new one pops up for us to brutally over-analyze. I'll try to keep this strictly according to prominent sources in the game who I believe are reliable, so as to avoid any needless rumor-starting or speculation.
- First up, Arizona remains interested in bringing back first baseman Lyle Overbay. The D-backs were hoping to get things settled with Overbay quickly, offering him a one-year contract on Monday (link: Nick Piecoro's Twitter) and expecting to have resolution that night. Obviously, that hasn't happened. Overbay's representatives are reportedly still looking around for more playing time, but Arizona seems confident that he'll return. The latest we've heard on the Overbay front was yesterday, when Nick P basically told us that nothing had changed.
- Arizona was briefly linked to the Rockies' Ian Stewart, initially by Jon Heyman, he-who-is-formerly-of-SI. However, as both Steve Gilbert and Nick Piecoro tell us, any further progress on a Stewart acquisition hinges on Arizona failing to re-sign Overbay, who remains a higher priority than Stewart. Stewart remains heavily linked to the Cubs, with Tyler Colvin's name coming up in the "whaaa?" category of possible pieces headed back to Colorado.
- Today, Arizona was linked to a new pair of potential rotation arms, the Oakland duo of Gio Gonzalez and, later on, Trevor Cahill. Gonzalez's name was first seriously linked to the D-backs in the early afternoon, according to Bob Nightengale, but, according to Nick Piecoro, Arizona was merely "kicking the tires" on Gonzalez, and the team didn't expect it to go much further. It seems that the hang-up with Gonzalez was Oakland's demand for left-hander Tyler Skaggs in return, as Ken Rosenthal later mentioned that Arizona had moved on to Cahill, as acquiring him would not cost the club Skaggs. John Gambadoro confirmed the interest in both Cahill and Gonzalez. However, Joel Sherman of the New York Post seems to believe that Gio will not be moved at the meetings, as the A's are looking for a package similar to the Haren-to-Arizona haul, which nobody has approached yet.
- One name who has been almost constantly, albeit lukewarmly, linked to the D-backs is right-hander Hiroki Kuroda. As early as Monday, Arizona was said to be strongly considering Kuroda as an alternative to lefty Joe Saunders to fill out the D-backs rotation, and Kuroda remains on the D-backs radar, with the Rosenthal link above (here it is again) mentioning that Kuroda was still very much within the team's sights. A rather random and unaccompanied update from "@LASports" indicates that discussions "might" be getting serious between the team and Kuroda, which should probably be taken with a Mount Vesuvius-sized pile of salt.
- What about that one guy, whatshisname, the dude who pitched for us last year? Oh, right, Joe Saunders. Well, Arizona seemed willing to put this whole rotation drama behind them early on in the meetings with a two-year offer to Saunders' camp on Monday, with the team holding firm to its stance of not going through arbitration with Saunders. However, it seems that the offer was rebuffed and Saunders' representatives submitted a counteroffer, with further negotiations to come. We've heard almost nothing of Saunders since, so, well, who knows what's going on between him and the D-backs.
- Arizona was also linked early on in the meetings to right-handed reliever Takashi Saito, according to Steve Henson of Yahoo! Sports, but we've heard nothing about Saito since.
So, basically, Arizona is linked to seven players with no deals signed and only vague ideas of what might actually materialize (well, except for the mostly-unreported-for-a-reason Joe Martinez signing). Business as usual at the Winter Meetings, I see.
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Yeah
who needs Pujols when we have the Pujols-of-the-Future already playing with us?
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 7, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
Though, I just saw this fake baseball card
with Pujols in a Dbacks uniform, and I could get used to it:
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 7, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
that’s really big. Sorry!
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 7, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I didn't make it
I only saw it on another website and basically copied and pasted
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 7, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
I think
I’m going to wait at least a full season before I go long on Goldschmidt.
Tomorrow is another day.
You can't go much longer.
Dude’s name is 11 letters. /bad joke
"Hey, why don't you people watch the game?"-my mom after viewing a wave going around Chase Field.
by Reynolds rapper on Dec 8, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
I'm
holding out for a hero.
What's one more comeback, anyway?
by Zavada's Moustache on Dec 7, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
do do do dooooooo
Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
"I'm like if it fits in the oven, play ball." - soco
Promised Colin Cowgill fifteen sandwiches on 7/6/2011
Can forget finding any free agents
The Miami Yank . . . I mean Marlins are buying the whole lot. By the time they are done I think the Mets will end up with a 9th round pick for Reyes
Marlins
I don’t get how they have the money to do this (and I’ve expressed my concern elsewhere that they could be pulling a real-life version of “The Producers”)
but damn, if they manage to sign Fielder on top of Reyes, Buerhle, Bell, and combine that with the talent already there (Johnson, Sanchez, Nolasco, Stanton) they will easily be the best team in NL the next couple of years…
The question is do they have the money
and if so, where did they get it? Miami. Hmmmmmmmmmmm…
Is it mid-February yet?
They don't have the money yet
that’s the whole problem. They are counting on their new stadium bringing in enough people to keep thier heads above water next year, and a successfull team on the field to bring them back in 2013 and beyond. It’s one of the biggest gambles I have ever seen in pro sports, and I dont’ think it is going to pay off
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 7, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
They are counting on
the new stadium to drive additional revenue, not to “keep their heads above water.” The Marlins are swimming in cash and have been for years.
According to Forbes
the Marlins and Nats are MLB’s most profitable orgs, over the past five years or so. Low payroll (expenses) plays a part, but the bigger, less understood, driver is increased revenue sharing, which has supplanted the familiar economic model of making money by drawing fans and eyeballs to your local team. There are rapidly growing external (aka national) streams now, essentially split equally among the clubs, so that a franchise with piddly local revenues can still make an awful lot of profit. You dont have to spend on players or win. Heck, you dont even need to draw fans.
Correct
Just to be clear, we’re not talking overall revenue or local revenue. This is profit (ie overall revenue less expenses).
Except
That wasn’t the case at all in the most recent figures, where the Marlins came in 14th in operating income.
"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"
Dammit, hit enter too quickly
The question of what happened to these preceding profits, however, remains without any answer. I’d be guessing Jeffrey Loria’s personal art collection: pretty sure it wasn’t put aside for future investment back into the team.
But if you’re gonna go all in, the time you get a new stadium is a good time to do it.
"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"
Dammit, hit enter too quickly
Maybe that’s what happens when you’re overeager to “correct” or contradict people :-)
Judging from the thread, before you and I barged in, many here would likely be surprised the Marlins ranked as high as 14th in earnings – so while your factoid is certainly true, it adds precious little and even muddies the broader points I’m trying to advance. Points about Loria and MLB economics that, judging from your subsequent remarks, we almost certainly agree on.
the Marlins
have always been incredibly profitable
and as for Jim’s response, i can understand why Loria wouldn’t invest in an asset (the Marlins) if he expected additional investment to decrease his returns. he’d obviously just pick a different asset to invest in (probably not a personal art collection, though i don’t know, maybe he did put the money there)
all that previous profit generation aside though, it seems to go completely against Loria’s MO to invest the money in the Marlins now. are the Marlins really going to be generating better returns on his investment now than in the past? sufficiently much that he’s throwing this much money at FA’s?
by blue bulldog on Dec 7, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Loria and art
He has been an art-dealer almost his entire lief and wrote a book entitled ‘Collecting Original Art’. My suggestion wasn’t a random choice….
"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"
by Jim McLennan on Dec 7, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
There's not enough visibility
into MLB financials to prove that Loria will make more profit going “all in” (as Jim says) in his new digs versus " coasting" along, but I cant understand for the life of me why Loria would proceed otherwise.
I think he’s out less than $150M for this incredible revenue-generating asset and probably figures he can truly maximize revenues (suite sales, licenses, premium pricing and the most lucrative TV deals) with some playoff baseball, fueled with celebrity ballplayers.
Loria’s a goddamn liar, of course, crying poverty, but his contention that a grand new stadium in the right locale completely changes his business model, could very well be true. I suspect Miami isnt a market problem nearly so much as it was a stadium/location/weather problem, exacerbated by a shrewd owner adept at gaming the system.
by Diamondhacks on Dec 8, 2011 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately
the new stadium has an awful location. I understand the need to get a stadium built if you don’t have one, but teams really should think twice about plopping one down just any old place (Coyotes being another example).
Tomorrow is another day.
What's awful
about the new location? Less than a mile from downtown Miami. This is where they should’ve built it eighteen years ago, before Huizenga convinced mlb to play in Miramar (ie "plopping down just any ol’ place).
I’m not especially familar with Florida geography, but I know all of South Fla is notoriously congested, and one of several issues with SunLife was, at seven or eight miles north of Miami, it’s not convenient to get to. Especially not for hot, rainy baseball, several times per week.
I've heard
that not only is the Orange Bowl location not a very good neighborhood, but also that there’s virtually no place to park (a lot of the private homes in the area offered up their lawns as parking for a fee in the Orange Bowl days) and not a great place to get to easily. That’s what I’ve heard from people in the area, but others might feel it’s easy to get to.
Tomorrow is another day.
The city or county (I forget which),
sprang $94M for an adjacent parking structure (of unknown capacity). Which, I agree, is important to customers in an iffy neighborhood with little or no public transportation.
Bad neighborhoods dont help attendance, but there’s also a long history of successful ballparks built in such areas. Most notably, Yankee Stadium.
Yankee Stadium
has other factors working in its favor. It’s in a highly urban area where more affluent fans can travel to the stadium by train without actually walking through South Bronx. The Stadium was built during a time when South Bronx wasn’t a nightmare, so fans have had little choice but continue to go to a neighborhood in decline. And probably the most important thing is that the Yankees have been consistently good, and their fans are people that have lived in the are for a long time.
It does raise an interesting question: what’s the neighborhood characteristics for ballparks? Most of the 90’s to current stadiums were built in urban areas as an attempt at downtown revitalization projects, in opposition to the previous suburban multi-use trend. I wonder if any of these neighborhoods were actually bad neighborhoods, and whether they had any part in revitalization.
Tomorrow is another day.
Just found it interesting
That you quietly opted to ignore the up to date, very easily-available figures.
But then, seems that providing the most recent financial information available “adds precious little” to a discussion, so there you go.
"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"
by Jim McLennan on Dec 7, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
It's too bad Forbes
doesnt have a very easily-available five year summary link – that might’ve saved us some trouble. Both of our annual links probably suffer from small sample-itis. But the difference is my snapshot, the one where I cited the year (2009) of the dataset, is consistent with the Marlins’ overarching economic reality, across four or five or six years.
Yours, somewhat less so. I’d have no issue with you including 2010 as an additional data point in the overarching reality, but you’re trying to insert it as a contradiction to my narrative, when A) it really isnt, and B) you’re well aware of Loria’s longstanding profitability.
I thought your subsequent points were fine.
The question was
How can the Marlins afford all these players now, not whether they could have afforded them in 2009. Obviously, the most significant data point is the most recent one, reflecting their current financial standings.
While the profits from 2007-2009 were nice, without any apparent evidence that they were stashed away in a piggy-bank for a rainy day, what they did then, really isn’t very relevant going forward. Just like Aaron Hill’s performance in 2009 is less important as an indicator than his 2011 performance.
"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"
that's not his point though
you don’t need to stash them away in a piggy-bank
they just need to be there. i’m not even sure how liquid they need to be. obviously the more liquid the better, but as long as the asset has value, you can also borrow against it.
hacks’s point is that Loria has been making plenty of money the past decade, and now he’s reinvesting some of it in the Marlins either directly (through equity injections) or indirectly (borrowing against his asset value)
Past history
Hasn’t exactly shown Loria committed to re-investing in the Marlins – any more than he did in the Expos. Perhaps he had some kind of awakening and will now be freely spending. But I’m not entirely convinced. He has been very good at spending other people’s money, rather than his own profits.
"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"
by Jim McLennan on Dec 8, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
To wit:
If he didn’t re-invest when the Marlins were making nearly $40 million in profits per year, seems unlikely he’d be doing so now that the number is about half as much.
I truly think he’s punting on future income, which is very, very risky in the baseball world. If they don’t win a World Series in 2012 or 2013, the Marlins could be in serious trouble.
"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"
by Jim McLennan on Dec 8, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
i'm not sure what this means
when you invest (let alone reinvest), you are always looking at future income
obviously he didn’t reinvest the profits when he was making $40 million, because he found other assets generating better returns
obviously again, he’s no reinvesting the profits, because he thinks the Marlins can maximize his returns
the only alternative, is that he’s planning on fleeing the country with his profits very soonish (like, after one-year of the new stadium opening) and letting other people take the fall for his obligations, and as much as i like to joke about this, i don’t think that seems particularly likely
by blue bulldog on Dec 8, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
"the only alternative, is that he’s planning on fleeing the country with his profits"
Or, rather more likely, selling the team, at a point when its value will likely never have been higher?
"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"
...
i think you’re assuming too much that there’d be an idiot investor around willing to buy the Marlins at its peak value
How can the Marlins afford all these players now, not whether they could have afforded them in 2009. Obviously, the most significant data point is the most recent one, reflecting their current financial standings.
No. We have no way of knowing which data points are “most significant”, because we dont truly understand how Loria is financing new payroll. We’re just guessing. The most significant data points may very well be in the future, something each of us has acknowledged.
hacks’s point is that Loria has been making plenty of money the past decade…and now he’s reinvesting some of it in the Marlins either directly (through equity injections) or indirectly (borrowing against his asset value)
Yes. Against his substantial new asset value, most likely.
Perhaps [Loria] had some kind of awakening and will now be freely spending.
Yeah. It’s called The Stadium Epiphany. He’s the same guy. Circumstances have changed.
He has been very good at spending other people’s money, rather than his own profits.
In a way, he probably still is. Welcome to public stadium fleecing financing.
If he didn’t re-invest when the Marlins were making nearly $40 million in profits per year, seems unlikely he’d be doing so now that the number is about half as much.
“The number” you’re obsessing over, (2010 earnings), is like looking thru a soda straw in a milk shake and barely relevant to 2011 payroll, Jim. San Diego enjoyed mlb’s highest 2010 earnings and dumped 2011 payroll. Assuming major league payrolls are purchased with last year’s earnings really misses the bigger picture.
I truly think he’s punting on future income, which is very, very risky in the baseball world.
I’m not sure what punting means exactly, either, but if you mean ‘depending on’ future income, that forward optimism is the heart of capitalism and considerably less risky in “the baseball world” than in other industries, thanks to mlb’s congressionally sanctioned protections and safety nets.
If they don’t win a World Series in 2012 or 2013, the Marlins could be in serious trouble.
Financially? Competitively? LOL. Let Jeff Loria worry about that. He’s a pretty astute (and solvent) competitor.
by Diamondhacks on Dec 8, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
If you mean ‘depending on’ future income, that forward optimism is the heart of capitalism and considerably less risky in "the baseball world" than in other industries, thanks to mlb’s congressionally sanctioned protections and safety nets.
Wasn’t that Colangelo’s plan? Spending on free-agents in the hope that future income would cover the debts being run up?
That worked out well, didn’t it.
"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"
Exceedingly well
Yes.
I’m a fan, not a self appointed financial schoolmarm. I recognize there’s only one way for a new mlb franchise to win, and that approach has associated costs and inefficiencies. And boy, do I appreciate it.
Assuming major league payrolls are purchased with last year’s earnings really misses the bigger picture.
Yet you started this by citing the Marlins’ earnings in response to the question of how they are affording this payroll increase. Now, all of a sudden, such a correlation is “missing the bigger picture”.
I’d need two heads to manage such a spectacular level of doublethink.
"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"
Sorry for any confusion,
but they’re two different things.
Big Picture: Jeff Loria has lots of money floating around (as before) and a game changing new stadium he’s always wanted (transformative development).
Small picture: Per Forbes, Loria cleared less $ in 2010 than he did in 2009 (or 2008 or whatever). Therefore, he’s less likely to spend in 2011.
It doesnt appear Loria’s longstanding reluctance to spend was especially tied to a particular year’s net earnings. As bulldog said, it was probably more his considered calculus that pumping money into tepid demand situations (ie Montreal, Miramar) just didnt make investment sense. Not when he could clear 40 or 50M, essentially doing nothing (ie no FAs, not drawing fans).
The sMiami stadium eliminates, or diminshes, that option. He’s gonna generate more local revenue, whether he spends on players or not, but some of that will be absorbed by mlb’s reduced (or potentially discontinued) welfare checks. Plus, he’s got around $150M tied into construction. “Coasting along” with neglible payroll may no longer generate the much higher threshold of revenue he now deems adequate, to close on Picassos, etc.
According to Forbes, the Marlins and Nats are MLB’s most profitable orgs, over the past five years or so.
.
I'm guessing
They’re spending on the basis that the new stadium and new star players will be enough to engage fan support to the point where they can support a large payroll. It would be a bold move anywhere, but particularly so in Miami, where they have struggled with fan support for so long.
It’s not a perfect comp, but in the same city, the Miami Heat added two of the biggest names in basketball last year, and still struggled at times to sell tickets. So this feels like a big gamble to me.
What's one more comeback, anyway?
by Zavada's Moustache on Dec 7, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
Hasn't Loria been pocketing profits for years?
by CaptainCanuck on Dec 8, 2011 2:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
See above
Everything indicates the word “pocketing” is right, and it’s a one-way trip.
"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"
by Jim McLennan on Dec 8, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Theyre out from their terrible stadium lease, unveiled a new brand, and are counting on
selling out all games this year. Thats what the owner said on the Dan Lebatard show here in miami
As long as they're not relying on merchandise sales
I know I wouldn’t be seen dead in those new uniforms and hats…
"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"
Ugly
doesn’t being to cover it. Ugly is a Mexican Hairless dog. Ugly is a piece of cheese that has seen better days. Those are not ugly. They are an abomination before all, and should be burned with fire!
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 7, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
guys, guys, guys,
we’re diamondbacks fans . . . we can’t really comment on the aesthetics of team uniforms/branding
by ShucksBoWalter on Dec 7, 2011 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
What do you
have against the team’s colors? They have been nowhere near as atrocious as that rainbow barf they’re calling uniforms over in Miami. Come to think of it, they haven’t been bad at all
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 8, 2011 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
The 'Sedona Red' thing
is dull. The black uniforms are much more distinctive, and even the old purple worked nicely.
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 8, 2011 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
But still
to say we can’t comment on the aesthetics of the Marlins’ new uniforms because of them? No
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 8, 2011 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
Sedona red looks awesome too
by CaptainCanuck on Dec 8, 2011 2:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The color is great
The ridiculous font that says “Dbacks” is tacky. And the color looks terrible in the road grays
People tell me the Sedona Red is awesome all the time at school.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
Doesnt any color, other than gray
look pretty spectacular in South Bend this time of year? :- p
by Diamondhacks on Dec 8, 2011 1:14 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well
I wouldn’t go that far, but it’s much, much better than the color scheme in Miami
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 8, 2011 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
Latest Tweets from Nick P
Combined into one, since thankfully we don’t have a 140-char limit!
When speaking with reporters today, Dbacks GM Kevin Towers sounded open to trading top prospects, thinks now might be a time to make a run. Towers: "We see an opportunity in the next couple of years, and this is just our eyes, the way we view it… This is probably an opportune time to hopefully stay on top if we make the right moves … even if it means giving up prospects."
He wouldn’t address specific trade ideas, but sure sounds like he’d be willing to part with a Parker or a Skaggs if it means Gio or Cahill. Part of Towers’ thinking is current state of NL West. Didn’t sound fazed by the notion that some of his players might have had career years.
"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"
Giving up propspects to get a pitcher from Oakland?
That seems familiar
Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
"I'm like if it fits in the oven, play ball." - soco
Promised Colin Cowgill fifteen sandwiches on 7/6/2011
i know, makes me cringe
Imagine our OF with CarGo in left and rotation of IPK, Hudson, Brett Anderson, HA. That being said, I’d give up Parker for Gio, not Skaggs, because 2 years from now Skaggs might be Gio quality. I wouldn’t part with either for Cahill though, just not a huge fan of his, think Parker will exceed him in the coming years.
Please do not mention that trade please...
We got Tyler Skaggs……..We got Tyler Skaggs……..BUT WE COULD HAVE HAD CARGO AND UPTON ON THE SAME TEAM!!!!!.We got Tyler Skaggs! (shoots self in face)
Cahill
wouldn’t require trading away Skaggs or Parker
by blue bulldog on Dec 7, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
Just my opinion
But if we get Gio we would run away with the division next year. That’s of course if the rest of the division stands pat. Which I assume it relatively will.
It’s a gamble, but as long as we’re talking about one top prospect and two other lesser prospects. I’d rather give up Parker over Skaggs if I had my chose. How about you?
I believe Skaggs is a top 3 SP prospect in the game.
You don’t trade away guys who put up a 30% K% in the Southern league.
I wouldn’t trade either. Especially for guys Gio or Cahill.
Yeah
I’m having a hard time believing that this is even a conversation.
Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
"I'm like if it fits in the oven, play ball." - soco
Promised Colin Cowgill fifteen sandwiches on 7/6/2011
It shouldn't be
that’s for sure. I wouldn’t mind picking up a good pitcher, but I don’t want to lose anything for that privilage
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 7, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
But if Towers is blinded by the glow
of the brass ring he never had, no telling what he’ll do to get it.
"The kingdoms of Experience, In the precious wind they rot, While paupers change possessions, Each one wishing for what the other has got, And the princess and the prince, Discuss what's real and what is not, It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden." B. Dylan
It doesn't
really sound from my reading of the other blogs in the division that they are doing anything to drastic. Dodgers are still being sold, the Padres are rebuilding, I haven’t heard about the Rockies doing anything major, and same goes for the Giants
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 7, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
I really think you overrate Gio Gonzalez a bit
The dude’s okay, a fringe-#2, more likely a #3. Could play up in NL West but he shouldn’t ever be confused with someone like Haren.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 7, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
+1
i honestly think we sucked out a bit with Haren ending up being as good as he was with us
i don’t want to try to suck out again
by blue bulldog on Dec 7, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
I would be okay with giving up Parker for Gonzalez. Just say “no” to dealing Skaggs, though…
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Dec 8, 2011 8:26 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Please no
I really hate this whole idea. I wouldn’t trade Skaggs for either of those guys. No freaking way. And I wouldn’t trade Parker for Cahill. And I wouldn’t feel great about trading him for Gonzalez either. Please DBacks, don’t do this. Why this sudden rush? What is with the “win now” implication? This is so weird.
Well
didn’t you know that we have a bunch of big contract guys who are going to leave after this next season, and this is our last chance? Oh, wait, that’s not right…
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 7, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
I mean... Drew?
Putz? No, we have an option on him…. Overbay? Oh, wait, we haven’t signed him yet… Blum/Blanco?…. Yeeeeah.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
Montero I guess
But I’d imagine an extension gets done.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
This
is my point exactly
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 8, 2011 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
saw all these trade rumors on the net already
i guess people who dont follow the winter meetings are appreciative of the info, TY dAn
I still am reluctant to think that we'll move one of the top four guys
Especially since they’re so close to the big leagues. It’s not like we’re operating under a short window here or anything and need to rush to make an all-or-nothing run for 2012 like the Brewers did for 2011… our window is enormous with the quality of our farm system. Deal from the depth to solidify the elite, not the other way around…
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 7, 2011 10:03 PM EST reply actions
Parker seems most likely to go
if anyone.
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 7, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Technically it's only Parker and Skaggs
the ones that could be traded; Bauer until July and Bradley until August. I would prefer to just sign Kuroda to a one-year deal and then let one of the four horsemen start on 2013.
Twitter
Mr. Hall, you WILL beat it!
by dbacks25 on Dec 7, 2011 10:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well yes,
But that doesn’t change my main point.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 7, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
i don't see an enormous window
a lot hinges on what happens to our lineup after 2012. what if Goldy isn’t the solution at 1st? what if Aaron Hill goes back to suckitude? same for Roberts? who’s going to be our next C and SS?
lots of question marks in the lineup, with only Upton being the sole “known” going into the long future.
yeah, i think our pitching (some combo of IPK, Huddy, Collmenter, Big 4, Tier Twos) will keep us in contention to make the playoffs each year for the next five years. but i don’t think we’re in “dynasty” position the same way the Phillies have been the last five years in the NL East. i’d like for us to get there though, and i think the way to do that, is to trade some of that depth in the Tier Two and maybe one of the Big 4 to acquire star hitting.
by blue bulldog on Dec 7, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
Ummm
If all of those things happen, 2012 isn’t our window either.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 7, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
fine
C and SS, the two most premium positions
how do you propose we fix that post-2012?
by blue bulldog on Dec 8, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
By extending Montero (this should be a top priority IMO)
And finding a stopgap SS? There are plenty of options at the position available right now who are capable fill-in guys. AZ won the division last year with Willie Bloomquist as our everyday shortstop for half of the season, and Drew wasn’t even all that productive when he was on the field. Marco Scutaro and Erick Aybar will be free agents, and Jason Bartlett could join them. Any of those guys is better than the Bloomquist/Drew combination plate we were served up last year.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 1:05 AM EST up reply actions
how was Drew unproductive?
he was on-pace for another 3.5-4 WAR season
it’s not all that easy to just find an everyday SS and/or C on the market.
the longer it’s taking to extend Montero, the more i’m inclined to believe it’s not going to happen. he will command a lot more than what we can offer on the free market.
offensively-speaking, unless Goldy turns into an 850-900 OPS guy, our offense looks pretty bereft to me after 2012.
Break down Drew's fWAR
89 wRC+ awfully close to his ‘09 88 wRC+. Which means the differences between the pace Drew was on in ’11 and what Drew did in ’09 is fluctuations in defensive metrics and baserunning metrics. So unless he was truly an elite baserunner and +9 defender, he wasn’t on pace for that kind of season.
Chris Young is apparently a bag of beans. As is Gerardo Parra. And Aaron Hill. And that freakin’ perennial MVP guy in Justin Upton.
You’re looking at the downside for everything. Sure, a lot of things broke for AZ in 2011 and that isn’t likely to keep happening, but who says everything will break in the opposite direction going forward?
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
The thing is
nothing is broken.
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 7, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'll take a shot
1,what if Goldy isn’t the solution at 1st? He can’t be any worse than Miranda
2.what if Aaron Hill goes back to suckitude? I think the change of scenery really helped and it’s not like KJ was doing much better last year.
3.same for Roberts- I think he’s very capable of putting up similar numbers. Plus he’s probably only the 6th or 7th most important bat in the lineup. His defense is what’s important.
4. I think Chase field is like Coors field in that offense is not that hard to find. Chris Young is singed for another two years, Parra should get better, Goldschmidt is a beast, and hopefully we extend Montero. Oh and “only Upton”? Yea “only” a team friendly perennial MVP lol.
5. “Dynasty”…..I just pictured Jim Mora saying dynasty? over and over I had a chuckle.
maybe i'm just being greedy
i want us to be like the Phillies. perennially sitting atop the division. and i think we have that capability, as long as we make a few shrewd moves.
by blue bulldog on Dec 8, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
Whether or not we make shrewd moves
We’ll eventually have those perennial powerhouse players get a little too expensive for our budget and have to dump some as it is. That’s kind of an impossibility for Arizona.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
well
if KT actually knows how to manage our finances (i have zero confidence in this, unfortunately)
he’d know how to balance future expenses with present expenses.
At some point
There are limits. Even for the shrewdest of financial managers.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
As mentioned above
I knew this, but it doesn’t change the main point.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
yeah i think only guys parker and down
but we could probably get cahill without him
hmm what about jurrjens?
The braves need right-handed outfielders and someone for when chipper retires. Davidson, Pollock, Gillespie?
Gillespie?
Zero trade value. Plus, Jurrjens is pretty mediocre and hasn’t thrown 200 innings since ‘09. Fly ball contact guys in Chase typically don’t work out well unless they have some magical/lucky ability to only allow solo home runs (I’m looking at you, Joe). His LOB% was absurd last year.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
Wouldn't fly ballers
Be preferable to us, because of the OF defense? Just look at Kennedy.
by CaptainCanuck on Dec 8, 2011 2:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not if they clear the fences.
See what Chase did for Henry Blanco.
"The kingdoms of Experience, In the precious wind they rot, While paupers change possessions, Each one wishing for what the other has got, And the princess and the prince, Discuss what's real and what is not, It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden." B. Dylan
Home runs and whatnot
A fly ball strikeout pitcher is a good fit – someone like Huddy, for instance. Because although a lot of the contact they give up is fly balls, they a) typically don’t have a ton of guys on base when they happen and b) give up proportionally fewer. Jurrjens is far from a strikeout pitcher. Pitch-to-contact fly ball guys… Enright? Galarraga? Obviously neither of them are remotely close to Jurrjens, but that’s the vein of pitcher we’re looking at.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Huddy
needs to develop a reliable and consistent strikeout pitch if he wishes to elevate his game.
Is it mid-February yet?
His changeup can be that
I kind of wonder if he over-used his slider last year. It’s not particularly jumpy and can get pretty flat.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Hanley is actually starting to scare me a bit
with his insistence on playing at SS
by blue bulldog on Dec 8, 2011 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
No thx.
Hanley kind of wasn’t good last year. I’d be more than willing to deal for Ramirez as our SS for the next four years, but just not for one of the top four guys.
I want someone elite if I include one of those four. Ramirez was that a year ago, but ’11 was really bad for him.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
Not to mention
his attitude scares me, at least
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 8, 2011 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
A major dose of clubhouse
hemlock.
"The kingdoms of Experience, In the precious wind they rot, While paupers change possessions, Each one wishing for what the other has got, And the princess and the prince, Discuss what's real and what is not, It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden." B. Dylan
Alright, how about this...
Since some people are concerned by Parra’s offense, how about signing Mandy?
Is it mid-February yet?
I'd rather slit my own throat
There is, of course, also the little matter of his unserved suspension for PEDs, which was not negated by his “retiral”.
"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"
by Jim McLennan on Dec 8, 2011 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
Would you like
smacked upside the head repetedly now, later, or both for that comment? ;-)
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 8, 2011 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
Wow, you people
are like all judgmental and stuff.
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 8, 2011 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
Nevermind
I take it all back after the thought of a Gibby vs. Mandy brawl in the clubhouse. Thank you Dan for bringing up that possibility
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 8, 2011 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
We're really one of the only places that makes sense for him
I know people are going to have lulz all over this comment, but think about it. We have a stable clubhouse with strong leaders in place and a manager that would murder him (like, seriously, there’s a chance) at the first sign of trademark Manny nonsense, a need for a RHH power bench bat (Blum and Bloomquist do not quality at all), and he’ll be egregiously inexpensive. You’d have to be a moron to guarantee him a dime, and you tell him that the first moment he does something stupid while serving his fifty games he’s getting cut, but the possible rewards are pretty huge for there possibly being no monetary risk. PR would have their hands full, but that’s their job, right? Isn’t the idea of having a strong organizational culture the ability to skillfully incorporate all sorts of personalities and talents into it?
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
Well
you put it like that, I wouldn’t mind seeing a Gibby vs. Mandy brawl in the clubhouse…
Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.
by imstillhungry95 on Dec 8, 2011 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
This is similar to the Barry Bonds speculation
a few years back. I think you’re right, in terms of where Manny might theoretically fit into the roster, and also about a company in a normal industry incorporating normal employees. But baseball players, especially notable stars, are more like brands in themselves, and the Dbacks are one of the more top down brand obsessed outfits in pro sports. Catering to a predominantly white cowtown.
Think of the local invective and ambivalence directed at Upton and Young. I just dont see ownership pursuing Manny.
Depressingly
This is kind of a legitimate point. Man…
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
I don't care about his personal problems
but I don’t know if he can still play.
Tomorrow is another day.
To add a large dose of
defensive indifference in left field?
"The kingdoms of Experience, In the precious wind they rot, While paupers change possessions, Each one wishing for what the other has got, And the princess and the prince, Discuss what's real and what is not, It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden." B. Dylan
Exactly.
He’s a DH, period.
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 8, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Yu Darvish being posted tomorrow
Dbacks were interested before… Think they’ll offer something? 10 mill?
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
probably not even worth our time
we will be outbid for sure
and if we weren’t, then i’d be really scared
apparently he won't sign for less than 50
from what people say he sounds like douche anyway
NO ONE DO THE VOODOO LIKE YU DO
Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
"I'm like if it fits in the oven, play ball." - soco
Promised Colin Cowgill fifteen sandwiches on 7/6/2011
I have a strong feeling KT does not want Saunders back
“We told him, ‘Our offer is there, but if you don’t accept and something comes up that’s better, [the offer] will disappear and you could be traded before you accept the deal,’” Towers said
I think Saunders just got served.
Burned...
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Dec 8, 2011 8:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why am I suddenly praying we sign Saunders as fast as possible?
Because it would take any possibility of sending Skaggs or Bauer to the A’s. The more I read about the pitchers we seem to be targeting, and the prospects it would take to get them (bauer!?!), the more scared I get. Give me Joe back!
by Counsellmember on Dec 8, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
I am starting to feel this way too
Come on, KT, why are you scaring us like this?
Out where the brights are glowing,
KT is drawn like a moth to a flame.
His bullpen arms seem good at throwing,
But his starters tend to be quite lame.
"The kingdoms of Experience, In the precious wind they rot, While paupers change possessions, Each one wishing for what the other has got, And the princess and the prince, Discuss what's real and what is not, It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden." B. Dylan
That's a pretty damn good approach
I think KT wants Saunders, but only on the cheap and for a price that would be tradeable a year from now.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Overbay signed - 1 year for $1M
Seems like an overpay for Overbay – doubt he had a lot of other options
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/diamondbacks-to-sign-lyle-overbay.html
Seems fine to me
He’s as good of a LHH bench bat as you’ll find on the market.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
I hope all of the Bauer for Gio Gonzalez talk is nonsense.
Bauer has the poise and stuff to be dominant.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Dec 8, 2011 12:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions
My bad, here's the link. But most of you are already probably aware.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/dbacks-in-on-cahill-gio-kuroda.html
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Dec 8, 2011 12:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Billy likes Bauer
No chance Billy Gets Bauer though
From Halos Heavon
Perhaps the greatest day in all our lives.
I’m pretty sure JP is glad he chose the Angels over the Orioles.
Relax, people
“A’s like Trevor Bauer” =/= “Kevin Towers is remotely considering moving Trevor Bauer”
It’s not happening. I mean, I’ve been very wrong about many things this off-season, but I’m kinda sorta confident about this?
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 1:48 PM EST reply actions
lol
so confident you end the sentence with a question mark. :)
Bauer being mentioned as a trade for anyone on the A’s should be so far fetched as to be unreportable….I am nervous again.
by Counsellmember on Dec 8, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sick of being wrong about things I want to be right about. :-P
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Gio Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill, Andrew Bailey, and Jemile Weeks for Trevor Bauer
then I might consider it.
You're letting them off cheap
Bauer is one of the few players I would say is virtually untouchable. The sky is the limit with this young man.
Is it mid-February yet?
I would have taken Bauer over Cole if I were Pittsburgh.
Dude is going to be special.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Dec 8, 2011 2:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was joking
I don’t even think league officials would let that trade go down.
I do think Bauer is untouchable.
Im assuming this will be the main pieces in the deal
Cahill and Craig Breslow for 5 or 6 prospect package
1 A prospect, 2 B-, 2 C+
Bauer
Cowgill- A’s havbe drafted and tried to acquire him in the past
Pollack
Holmberg
Miley
Dear heavens
I think I just vomited in my mouth.
I’m sorry, but that’s a freaking terrible trade. The entire point of going after Cahill is that we don’t have to give up any of Bauer/ABradley/Skaggs/Parker. Otherwise we’d be going for Gio, but that would ludicrous, because Gio is just a wee bit too much like Oliver Perez for me to consider giving up that much for him.
If that’s the asking price, we’ll just redouble our efforts to get Hiroki Kuroda. I’d rather have Kuroda for 2/25, even with his age, than give up 40% of our top-10 prospects (in a damn good system) for a pitch-to-contact #3 starter and a reliever, control be damned. Heck, I’d bank on Bauer being every bit as good as Cahill in 2012, and there’s no way I’d think of trading four freaking prospects for Craig Breslow when we don’t need another reliever. It’d be nice, but it’s a luxury. We’ll hit the free agent market if we do anything.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
I'll also direct you
To this comment I just made on your site, hoping to get some additional perspective on why the A’s realistically think they can get a Haren deal for Gio Freakin’ Gonzalez.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
yes thank you
The attraction of a Cahill deal would be that you could get him without giving up any of the big four.
That trade is pretty ridiculous
This.
I’d rather get freeze dried then reconstituted Kyle Lohse than give up any of those prospects for Cahill.
"Hey, why don't you people watch the game?"-my mom after viewing a wave going around Chase Field.
by Reynolds rapper on Dec 8, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Bauer for Cahill alone would be a great overpay IMO
When you added four other good prospects you stepped into the offensive craziness territory.
Heart attack
I saw this and read it like there was actual news, instead of craziness. I’ve been updating MLBTraderumors every 5 seconds waiting to see this nightmare unfold. Thank goodness for craziness.
by Counsellmember on Dec 8, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
i want to flag this for being absurd.
Let’s just hope this has no truth to it at all.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
Overpay, underpay or fair...
Parker, Corbin and Davidson for Gio?
Davidson makes it an overpay IMO
We got Skaggs, Corbin, and Saunders for Haren. You could argue that Gio is not quite as good and that return would be better than what we got.
Skaggs is probably a little better of a prospect than Parker. Corbin is more of a throw-in if anything. Davidson could be more valuable than Parker in the coming years considering our hole at 3B. It would be more wise to trade the outfield prospects before you trade Davidson.
Gio
is nowhere close to as good as Haren imo
the problem though is that Gio would also be cheaper
His last two years in Oakland.
were as good as Haren’s years in Oakland.
Plus we traded Haren when his value was low.
yes but
Haren actually got better after he came to the Dbacks
i’m not willing to bet again that Gio is going to do the same. again, i’d do Parker and an A-ball arm for Gio. that’s as far as i’d be willing to go. it never pays to get into bidding wars with others imo.
Overpay for me
I really don’t see Gio as special.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
Plugging him in behind Kennedy and Hudson assures us a better staff than last year
And makes us the heavy favorites in the West. Say 1 of Skaggs/Bauer can make the rotation out of Spring Training…
Kennedy
Hudson
Gio
Collementer
Skaggs/Bauer
How does this team not make the playoffs for the next half decade? I would try like hell to keep Davidson though…
Which I don't see as materially different from us w/o Gio.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
Now I might part with one of them if I had plans to
pick up a Shelby Miller or a Swaggerty from St. Louis…
"Hey, why don't you people watch the game?"-my mom after viewing a wave going around Chase Field.
by Reynolds rapper on Dec 8, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Shelby Miller
will probably be pretty damn good
but Swagerty? really?
fair pay for Gio
would be Parker straight up. if i had to be pushed for more, i’d throw in one of those projectable A-ball arms that aren’t in our Top 20
Parker for Gonzalez would be more than fair for both sides.
I would be happy with that.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Dec 8, 2011 10:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ehh
Gio’s surplus value is higher than that. Just doesn’t make a ton of sense for Arizona to do this when we need wins to come for less than $5MM apiece if we want to win and Gio is getting expensive.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 8, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
If we're gonna give up prospects for this type of pitching...
Why don’t we give the Rays a call about James Shields? I like him better than Gio.. just a thought.
Believe it or not.. I PISS SEDONA RED!
by DeDxDbacKxJroK on Dec 8, 2011 7:04 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I wonder if
Parker, Corbin, one of our hitters not named Davidson, would do it for the Rays. I like Shields too, though i wonder if another team wouldn’t outbid us (Yankees for instance, though Rays might not want to deal with the Yankees, and Tigers/Rangers).
i also am just not sure if we matchup all that well with the Rays in terms of roster/farm needs.
Chris Paul traded to the Lakers
Typical day as an Arizona Sports fan. /facepalm
they're giving up Gasol though
personally, i think the Lakers are weaker like that
unless they manage to flip Bynum for Howard. in which case….scratch that :(
Well
As recent NBA history can tell us: scrapping everything except 3 really really really good players always works.
Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
"I'm like if it fits in the oven, play ball." - soco
Promised Colin Cowgill fifteen sandwiches on 7/6/2011
well to be fair
i think you’d have to admit that CP3, Howard, Kobe are quite a bit better than LeBron, Wade, Bosh
by blue bulldog on Dec 8, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
Evidently, David Stern axed the trade.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Dec 8, 2011 10:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Apparently
The reasoning being that “he didn’t like the deal”, which is… yeah. Glad Stern and Gary Bettman are around. THey make Selig look worldly and competent
Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
"I'm like if it fits in the oven, play ball." - soco
Promised Colin Cowgill fifteen sandwiches on 7/6/2011
Stern
must have figured the deal would somehow hurt the Lakers, so he axed it…
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 8, 2011 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently he and some of the owners didn’t like players like Chris Paul being able to dictate where they want to be traded.
Screw Stern, though…it was a good deal for all three teams involved. The Rockets especially could have used Gasol. But I’m sure a lot of Suns fans around here are happy Chris Paul is going to the Lakers.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Dec 8, 2011 11:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
*that Paul isn’t going to the Lakers
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Dec 8, 2011 11:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
eh i'd be happy if he went there
because then we wouldn’t have to deal with gasol and odom. They’ve destroyed us since they both came to the Lakers.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
agree
i think Gasol/Odom are much worse for us than CP3
seriously, i don’t even consider the Lakers to be all that dangerous unless they managed to surround CP3 with more talented big guys, like Howard
by blue bulldog on Dec 8, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
Suns
have done a pretty fair job of self-destructing, player personnel-wise on their own.
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 9, 2011 12:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i blame robert sarver.
he’s ruined my fanship (is that even a word?) of the suns for a while. the only saving grace was the run a couple of seasons ago. but now? our biggest signings are Sebastian Telfair and Shannon Brown. WHOOPDEEDOO.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
I was forever cured of NBA fever
thanks to David Stern and the infamous Houston-Robert Horry Series a decade or so ago.
Is it mid-February yet?
that was ridiculous.
they grabbed my heart from my chest after that crap. Suspensions for coming off the bench and have a foot on the court? Bogus.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
Apparently
Paul’s gonna explore his legal options. This could get hilariously ugly.
Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
"I'm like if it fits in the oven, play ball." - soco
Promised Colin Cowgill fifteen sandwiches on 7/6/2011
I need to stop coming to this site
It is mildly stressful to keep reading that KT might trade Parker/Skaggs/Bauer/. This is like last year when the “Justin Upton is on the table” rumor went around. Come on!
Skaggs is basically the only reason that Dan Haren deal isn’t a total joke. If we trade him, we better be getting someone back about as good as Dan Haren. Hmph!
To even hear Bauer’s name and the word “trade” in the same sentence is freaking crazy. I endured the agony that was DBacks 2010. I deserve the reward of seeing Bauer play for the DBacks. The team didn’t stink that badly all of 2010 just to get Gio Gonzalez. Bauer can’t even be traded, right?
This is all crazy. I was serious above when I said I am starting to think we should just re-sign Saunders. Anything that would prevent KT from doing something really crazy.
Bauer can't be traded until August
I assume Towers will sign or trade for a 3rd starter before that, so I wouldn’t worry about Bauer. Skaggs and Parker on the other hand….
he can be named as a PTBNL in january though.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
He signed in July
So he can be “traded” in January, but has to be a PTBNL that can’t be named until one year after the day he signed last July.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 9, 2011 3:27 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Looks like cahill is the dbacks choice, not gio
And despite the disagreements of some fans, it’ll take one of your elite pitching prospects. Oakland sources have targeted Bauer or Skaggs as trade centerpieces plus 2 or 3 mid tier prospects. Oakland views Parker as a reliever long term and are hesitant of his injury history. Based on towers comments looks like the offer had been agreed upon and is just awaiting an answer.
The Diamondbacks were linked in trade rumors to the Oakland A’s, and it’s believed that their focus is on sinkerballing right-hander Trevor Cahill, a talented and affordable pitcher who would slot in near the top of the rotation. Cahill is owed $29 million over the next four years in a deal that also includes two club options.
The Diamondbacks likely would need to part with one of their better pitching prospects, perhaps right-hander Jarrod Parker, and others, though they seem less inclined to do such a lopsided deal as they did four years ago, when they sent six players to the A’s for right-hander Dan Haren.
Nowhere in the article does it say they made an offer to the A's....
Piecoro was talking about the offer they have out to Saunders and Kuroda.
Also, probably the only reason they prefer Cahill over Gonzalez is that Cahill will cost less. Parker is considered less than guys like Skaggs and Bauer. You might as well just forget about those two buddy.
Oh and best of luck in that division for the next half decade. You’re going to need it…
No way
There’s no reason for us to unload one of our top three for Cahill. We better not be fooled by Cahill’s 2010. 2011 is what he is, a 6K/9, 1.4+ WHIP, 4 xFIP, 2.5 WAR innings eater. In other words: nothing special. Frankly, I’d be really irritated if we let Saunders loose, didn’t sign Kuroda, and then flipped one of our top three to pick up someone who isn’t as good as Kuroda and who is only marginally better than Saunders. It’d be the worst of the three options, and by a long shot.
"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra
Oh. My. God.
Stop baiting us like this! You are ruining my day and giving me indigestion with the mere mention of Skaggs and Bauer (who, if you read around the site, you would see is unavailable for trade unless Oakland is willing until July to receive him).
Cahill may indeed be a “talented and affordable pitcher who would slot near the top of the rotation.” But do you know who else is? Bauer and Skaggs and Parker. Plus 2-3 mid leavel prospects? If I wasn’t so afraid this might actually happen, I would be laughing right now. :) :(
by Counsellmember on Dec 9, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Cahill may indeed be a "talented and affordable pitcher who would slot near the top of the rotation."
But he’s not.
"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra
They've had significantly better peripherals than Cahill
In the last two years, while operating in a much more difficult park. AL/NL argument all you want, but IPK and Hudson are significantly better, right now, than Cahill. You can argue that Cahill has potential, and sure, I’ll agree, but if you trade elite prospect talent, you want elite talent in return. Hard to contend that Cahill has been elite aside from his 2010 super-luck extravaganza.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 9, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
I have nothing against Cahill
I’m sure he’s fine, but I doubt that his value justifies any discussion regarding trading Bauer.
Is it mid-February yet?
It doesn't
Not even slightly. Especially when the rules seem to make that not even possible.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 9, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
You guys have the impression Cahill's some scrub lol
He ranked as the 11th best prospect in BA’s 2009 top 100
Yes he was elite just like your beloved bauer and skaggs, believe it or not
Has a very favorable contract through 2017 (if team options picked up). Cahill is 13 yrs younger than kuroda who btw might be demanding a contract in the 12-13 mill ranger for 1 yr. Do you really see dbacks giving him that?
Some of you are assuming he cant improve in his age 24 season next yr, especially going to the NL? You know kennedy/hudson who most AL teams viewed as polished yet low upside mid-back rotation sp’s suddenly breakout in the NL? Who’s to say Cahill wouldnt have an up tick in production too? Matter of fact for 2010 and till late july 2011 he was pretty damn good in the AL
No ones saying to gut your system for cahill, but it would be dumb for A’s not to require one of your top pitching prospects. Even then im sure in a perfect world theyd prefer getting a top hitting prospect over a top pitching prospect as a centerpiece.
At least in gio and bailey trade dealings theyve asked for a montero, perez, banuelos, alonso, myers, turner, castellanos. morrison etc
You said it....
Was elite….
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Mr. Hall, you WILL beat it!
by dbacks25 on Dec 9, 2011 1:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Several points
1) SIERA, tERA, and xFIP all think Cahill has been much more of a #3 than a TOR guy, regardless of past projections and what he’ll do in the future.
2) $30MM in four years is not exactly cheap. It’s good value for Cahill on the market, but is it good value for Cahill to Arizona? Arizona’s payroll is around $70MM. Replacement level teams are considered ~55-win teams. Thus, if Arizona wants to keep making playoff appearances (90 wins minimum), we need 35 wins above replacement to cost us $70MM. So who’s more likely to give us that value, Cahill at $7.5MM per year (career 3.7 fWAR seasons: zero / career 2.6 fWAR seasons: zero), or a prospect making $400k then Arb1? Billy Beane is probably thinking the same thing right now. After all, why else would he be marketing two cost-controlled young starters so aggressively?
3) Nobody’s saying he couldn’t improve his production, but betting on that is awfully rash. In the past, we’ve also thought that Armando Galarraga, Jon Garland, Edwin Jackson, and Casey Fossum would see their production improve moving from the AL to the NL. Cherry pick our two best starters if you want, but it’s no guarantee.
4) Oakland can ask for whoever it wants, but that means nothing as far as actual trade value is concerned. If you think a package is going to be centered around one of those guys, I think you’re going to be a bit disappointed.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 9, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
you do realize
if you are satisfied with the trade, it’s almost certainly a bad trade?
look, when you think about trades, unless someone is incredibly stupid (like KW in the Hudson/EJax trade, or when the Angels traded away Napoli) then you should ask yourself, would i be slightly not okay with this trade. that’s when you know there’s a chance for the trade to go through.
every fanbase has inherent biases. and if you don’t think you can get the proper return for Cahill, you should just be happy keeping him. if you believe the good things you are saying about Cahill of course.
I think you and I are on the same page
I think I smell snake oil in all of this talk on the A’s part.
Is it mid-February yet?
That was in 2009.
Let’s be honest, he hasn’t put up “11th best prospect in the minors” type numbers in the majors, which counts WAY more than his prospect standing three years ago.
and was a former all star at age 22 , whats your point?
If you dont want him, tell your gm to stop pursuing cahill, who theyve been discussing this deal for over a week
Good idea!
Let me call him right now.
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Mr. Hall, you WILL beat it!
by dbacks25 on Dec 9, 2011 2:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
In all seriousness
It’s not that I don’t like Cahill because I do but I don’t get Towers trying to trade an elite arm when it’s not necessary when we have three elite arms that are big league ready or near ready. John Gambadoro just tweeted that Skaggs would not be going so we are going to assume that Parker is the one getting traded.
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Mr. Hall, you WILL beat it!
by dbacks25 on Dec 9, 2011 2:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's Billy Beane we are talking about.
He’ll win the trade and then trade those players to one of our rivals in the west.
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Mr. Hall, you WILL beat it!
by dbacks25 on Dec 9, 2011 2:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That's probably a light offer.
If it’s other guys in the B-/C+ tier, we’ll need four or five. Would I trade four B/B- guys for Cahill? Yeah, probably.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 9, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Here's a deal for you:
If you can tell me with certainty that he’ll post a .236 BABIP over a full season again, I’ll give you all four of the top arms in our system.
Former All-Star… Heh.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 9, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Cahill on verge to dbacks
Funny we heard bauer’s name yesterday, just sayin
Just stating facts
its not my fault if you dislike it
If by "on verge"
You mean “will happen in January,” then it will be possible for Bauer to be included. He’ll be a PTBNL until a year after the day he signed last July, then you’ll get him. A year after the day of signing his first pro contract is still a rule unless there’s some reason it’s changed. It’s why we waited a month to get Skaggs after the Haren deal.
So, if the trade really happens in the next 24 hours, there is no legally allowable way for Trevor Bauer to be in the trade, and so yes, you’re trolling. That’s not stating facts, that’s stating an impossibility.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 9, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Lets break it down
Yesterday bauer was mentioned
Today its mentioned Skaggs wont be in the deal.
A’s are scared of Parker’s injury history and view him as a reliever.
I doubt they’d want bradley who’s years away as a centerpiece
I also doubt they’d want B-/C+ prospects (good prospects though) unless its a huge haul which i doubt dbacks would want to lessen their depth
man you're funny...
Do you actually think you’re getting Bauer??? Let me recommend you a webpage – it’s azcentral.com go post your ideas over there, you’ll fit in perfectly.
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Mr. Hall, you WILL beat it!
by dbacks25 on Dec 9, 2011 3:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Here you go
Gambo620 John Gambadoro
Any trade with Oakland for Trevor Cahill will not include Trevor Bauer
Yes
Put kennedy, hudson in the AL, youd be surprised
Im pretty sure Kennedy or Hudson would have zero problems getting 2.5 WAR in the AL
"When Life gives you Lemons give the lemons BACK!"
+1
a flyballer pitcher in Oakland would be heaven…..
So you guarantee us
That Cahill will win more than 20 games while posting more than 5 WAR?
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Mr. Hall, you WILL beat it!
by dbacks25 on Dec 9, 2011 4:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Wow
just wow.
I have some news for you, son, the people here aren’t quite that gullible.
Is it mid-February yet?
I think the entire collective community of the SnakePit will take you up on that bet.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 9, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Olney mentions skaggs but , where's bauer..interesting
If Diamondbacks land Trevor Cahill, he would only deepen their strong young rotation—Kennedy, Hudson, Cahill, and Skaggs on the way.Buster_ESPN
You're being a massive douche, dude.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 9, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Guys
Cahill AND Gonzalez are going to be traded for Willie Bloomquist. I know this for a fact.
Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
"I'm like if it fits in the oven, play ball." - soco
Promised Colin Cowgill fifteen sandwiches on 7/6/2011
I think
We also get Chris Paul AND a bag of chips in the deal, so it’s fair
Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
"I'm like if it fits in the oven, play ball." - soco
Promised Colin Cowgill fifteen sandwiches on 7/6/2011
Too cheap
we need a competent quarterback who can get the ball to Fitzgerald.
Is it mid-February yet?
So, SBN A's blog writer here.
Who’s not interested in baiting or anything like that. Any questions about Cahill?
Is he a good character guy?
Any attitude problems or anything like that?
"When Life gives you Lemons give the lemons BACK!"
He's incredibly soft spoken.
In 2010, when he was named to the All-Star Game as an alternate, it was simultaneously hilarious and awkward to hear him talk to the media. Really quiet kind of guy. So basically, he’s certainly not going to cause any clubhouse problems, but he’s not a “fiery clubhouse leader” sort either.
Oh, and the other A’s pitchers constantly make fun of him on twitter for having a huge lego collection. Heh. No idea if that’s true or not.
Because the A's are handcuffed to the stadium nonsense.
Without a resolution to the stadium thing, the A’s are just in a perpetual holding pattern. The plan (according to Willingham’s agent) is that if they’re allowed to move to San Jose for an opening around 2015, they’re gonna rebuild the farm and be good then. The A’s don’t currently have the financial resources to compete now AND build the farm at the same time.
Parker is ready now
He’s not a guy who needs that much more polish. Doesn’t really make sense if you ask me.
i just don't get it
we don’t seem to be a great match for Oakland. they should be dealing their cost-controlled pitching for bats, which we don’t have (unless you guys wanted an OF like Parra who still has years of control ahead).
i honestly figured with how much demand there is for pitching always, you guys would find a better match with a different team.
Yeah, our OF is pretty much nonexistent at this point.
Bats definitely come before arms, but at the same time, if Skaggs or Bauer were dangled, I can see how Beane would come running. But if Skaggs and Bauer aren’t going anywhere, I’m kind of confused as well.
To be fair
That’s kinda how Oakland rolls. Look at their history.
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Mr. Hall, you WILL beat it!
by dbacks25 on Dec 9, 2011 4:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Also, the A's aren't shopping anyone around.
Beane would be fine holding onto Gio and Cahill, so he’s gonna have to really like what he sees.
Then why the discussion in the first place?
Of course the As are shopping around. I have a vintage Bentley. It’s not for sale. Make me an offer.
Is it mid-February yet?
But Bob Nightengale just said Parker was off the table
"When Life gives you Lemons give the lemons BACK!"
i can't see Beane
being satisfied with Cahill for one prospect, with one prospect being Pat Corbin or someone in our Tier Two
I'd hate to see Cowgill go
but the D’Back outfield is pretty solid right now.
Is it mid-February yet?
100% this.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 9, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree to a point
although they’re really good. The thing is the jump between the minors and majors is HUGE, and Cowgill demonstrated that he can handle big league pitching, defense and base running. The others might do well, then again, they might flame out. I’m a ‘bird in the hand’ kind of guy.
Is it mid-February yet?
Oh, and by the way, the other guy rumored in the deal, Craig Breslow:
He’s a decent LHP reliever with nice vertical movement on his fastball. Lots of flyballs. Not great by any means, but certainly usable. And he double majored in molecular biophysics and biochemistry at Yale.
yay for Yalies!
double major
that’s funny
it's not that weak
at least, in terms of workload
also, it’s not like he was a grad student there, just undergrad
Well, I was referring to research product
and the post-docs I’ve dealt with over the years.
Is it mid-February yet?
He'd be a worthwhile second lefty for us
Our outfield defense can make fly-ball guys worthwhile.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 9, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Woo!
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 9, 2011 5:22 PM EST reply actions
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