The Diamondbacks and Jason Kubel: Some Thoughts
Well, that was an interesting thread. I don't think we've ever passed twelve hundred comments for a single move in the history of the SnakePit. Which goes some way to show how divisive a move this has been, with a certain section of the community really, really hating it, and most viewing it negatively. Personally, I won't necessarily argue with that viewpoint; I think it's certainly an odd move, if [and it's a significant if] that's the end of the story. We don't know, as yet, whether this is a precursor to a further trade that will free Gerardo Parra - in one way or another.
But if you don't fancy going through all the comments, I'll attempt to summarize both sides of the debate after the jump, in a Cliff Notes version of the discussion...
I think it's clear what the aim was - to provide the Diamondbacks with a left-handed power-threat, which is something they don't have for 2012, with the departure of Kelly Johnson and the dubious status of Stephen Drew [who had only 15 homers in his last full season anyway; good for a short-stop, but not so much in overall terms]. If he's not ready for Opening Day, Arizona would only have three left-handed position players on the roster: Miguel Montero, Parra and Lyle Overbay. While Montero, like Drew, has better power than most at his position, even he doesn't have a 20-homer season in his career. That's what Kubel brings to the table.
It's probably not a stretch to say if Kubel remains healthy, he could well be good for 25+ home-runs at Chase, especially since his former home in Target Field appears to drain the power from left-handed hitters. Since moving there in 2009, 21 of Kubel's 33 home-runs have come on the road. Fellow left-handed slugger Justin Morneau has even more extreme splits, with 18 of his 22 homers being away from Minnesota. Those 21 homers for Kubel were in 131 road games, which would be a 26-HR pace over a full season. If Chase plays like the hitter-friendly park it has been, it's not much of a stretch to hope for thirty bombs and a .280 average.
But there are legitimate questions as well, not least that Kubel hasn't played even 100 games in the field since 2004. Will his body be able to stand up to the everyday grind of playing left-field every day? No-one is arguing that his defense is anywhere close to Parra's, and there's a legitimate case that the offensive upgrade Kubel will likely present is largely countered by the defensive downgrade accompanying him [especially behind a fly-ball heavy staff like Arizona's]. And at age 29, Kubel is likely to be on the downside of the aging curve, though he has been very consistent thus far in his career, with five consecutive seasons of over 100 OPS+.
However, if we're going to doubt that, we also have to ask, are Parra's 2011 numbers what we can expect from him going forward? None of the neutral projections seem to think so. Last season, he had a .784 OPS, but even the Bill James system - usually regarded as optimistic for hitters - has him falling fractionally short of that. CAIRO drops Parra back to .738, and the Hardball Times [subscription only] have him at a line of .280/.332/.395, a .727 OPS. All told, as David Fung noted, those two systems project Kubel to be worth 0.6 and 0.8 WAR more than Parra in 2012. If so, then trading Parra would be selling high.
While acknowledging the great improvement Parra made last season, Nick Piecoro seems to think along these lines:
I’ve gone back and forth on Parra throughout his career, wondering if he’d ever be able to hit enough to be an everyday corner outfielder. He never had much power, never had much of a knack for getting on base and never was too successful against left-handed pitching. Without those things, his value as an outfielder was tied into his defense, and since he was limited to a corner position, his value was diminished... I wouldn’t blame the Diamondbacks if they thought this might be as good as Parra gets. He doesn’t seem to recognize how to pull the ball with consistency, greatly limiting his power. He tends to give a lot of at-bats away. He’s a ground-ball hitting machine.
There would certainly seem to be potential for flipping Parra and getting something significant in return, as he's a 24-year old Gold Glove winner, with four years of team control left. If the team think Parra is legit, they'll look to trade Chris Young (with his team-leading 139 K's), and move Parra over to CF. That might be a bit of an adventure in itself, since Gerardo had no starts there in 2011, and only three the year before. A trade of either would also resolve the roster situation, which currently has 26 players under contract for next season. Keeping Parra and Kubel would seem to necessitate prying some veteran presence out of Kevin Towers' finger, perhaps most likely Geoff Blum.
But even if Kubel is better than Parra next season, he'll be paid a lot more. Parra just missed out on being a Super Two [and qualifying for arbitration], so will instead get a salary likely not much more than league minimum, perhaps around $450K. Is Kubel worth $7 million more? Even his defenders would likely find this a bit of a stretch. Could that money have been allocated to another spot, that would be of better benefit to the team? It's hard to say, without knowing what further moves might be in the offing. But as Dan noted, the trio of Kubel, Chris Young and Justin Upton will be over $26 million in 2013, about 37% of the current team payroll, and likely unsustainable.
Personally, I'm on the fence, pending other moves. If these don't follow - the team holding on to Parra, in the belief he will get better yet - it will remain an odd signing, apparently overpaying for home-runs at the expense of an important component in 2011's success: outfield defense. [Or maybe Towers is, based on the pitching staff, going to go with four outfielders and three infielders?] I don't regard the signing as the disaster it's been painted by some - but it doesn't immediately appear to make the team $7 million better either.
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my thoughts
I’m sorry, the comments were just too long for me to read, so I decided to provide my take on the snake pit fan posts.
http://www.azsnakepit.com/2011/12/20/2649609/jason-kubel-gerardo-parra-and-plate-appearance-thoughts
Here's my issue:
those two systems project Kubel to be worth 0.6 and 0.8 WAR more than Parra in 2012.
Not nearly enough, especially when you’re facing opposite sides of the develop curve (i.e. there is more risk that Parra out-performs Kubel than Kubel out-performs Parra by a huge margin, IMO).
Also, that’s not the right total for salaries owed to CY/Kubel/Upton in 2013. Young gets $8.7MM, Kubel gets $7.5MM, Upton gets $9.958MM. Total is $26.158MM. 37.4% of a $70MM payroll.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 20, 2011 3:55 PM EST reply actions
My mistake
It’s $21m for this year. Keep forgetting next year is now 2012… Updating…
"There's one rule by which I generally run my life:
What would Mothra do?"
by Jim McLennan on Dec 20, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
The presence of a big left handed power bat cannot be underestimated.
It’s going to take a lot of pressure off Upton,Montero, and Goldy .
With that being said, he’s going to have to mash for this signing to be worth it. .260, 20 HR is not going to cut it. This guy has to be our 2nd or 3rd best player, I’m talking .280-.290 28-30 HR. He has to be a real monster in the middle of the order for this signing to make sense.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if Parra asked for a trade.(Yes I realize he has no leverage) Why wouldn’t he? He just had a breakout season and this happens. It could be really bad for the clubhouse.
"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung
This is an acquisition,
not a trade. Looking at it like a trade, projecting Parra and Kubel and comparing salary, it doesnt look good. But looking at it like an acquisition, asking “Is the team better off with Jason Kubel or without him?”, I dont think it looks so bad. And, with due deference to Babe Ruth, I really hate fat outfielders. Fat outfielders with ankle issues.
But all of a sudden you’ve got four shaggers who can contribute positive, different things…from both sides of the plate. We may not have had that since 2001 (Gonzo, Fins, Sanders, Bautista). It provides Gibson with injury depth and /or in game flexibility, as sonic barracuda opined yesterday.
The opportunity cost of Kubel’s $15M may be substantial, but I think that’s more an academic argument (and a good one) than a practical constraint. Club revenues are higher than ever (per Forbes), so assuming the broad limits (and opportunities) facing mid market franchises, the Dbacks are about as financially ‘flexible’ as they choose to be. Put another way, if 15/2 for Kubel is your albatross, you’re probably in pretty good shape (ie running a fairly tight ship. )
Kubel might be positioned to spell
JUp in right, too.
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 20, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
Kubel's played some RF
but assuming the four OFers we have presently, Parra would typically back Justin up, due to the premium on arm strength over there.
by Diamondhacks on Dec 21, 2011 1:29 AM EST up reply actions
i already predicted
a loooong time ago that we’d have plenty of money to spend this winter if we wanted to
that’s why i was one of the heaviest proponents of going after Reyes
if Reyes puts up a 5-6 WAR year next year i’m going to be sick
by blue bulldog on Dec 21, 2011 4:29 AM EST up reply actions
I'd be more on board with Rollins
He’ll give you three wins minimum in 2012 and is so much safer.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 22, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
That's mostly how I see it
I don’t see it so much of a question of is Kubel worth $7 million more than Parra. I see it as a question of, are Kubel and Parra worth $8 million? I think so.
I think there is definite value in making Parra the 4th OF, which is really what he is best suited for, as well. It’s not measured, but it should show up.
Slowly warming to the idea
This doesn’t look bad on a paper…
Bloomquist/Drew (?)
Hill
Upton
Kubel
Goldy
Montero
Young
Roberts
Nice balance. Good protection if Kubel can be somewhere close to 2009 form. Really gonna miss seeing Parra in the outfield though…Another question, if Drew is healthy, does he lead off?
Would have to consider Roberts batting leadoff as well
just doesn’t leave a hitter you really can designate as a lead off man and a 8 hole hitter
makes sense
One day i would like to see them with a true lead off guy. Seems like its been a bit of a void since the days of Womack.
will largely
depend on if either Pollock or Eaton can develop into everyday players
by blue bulldog on Dec 21, 2011 4:30 AM EST up reply actions
I'm very willing to admit
That my disagreement with this move stems from my belief that Parra can be a solid offensive contributor going forward in addition to his ability to provide spectacular defense. If you’re really bearish on Parra – Nick P, for instance, is – then Kubel could make sense. But it’s a huge gamble to expect him to be an everyday outfielder and have his body hold up. I expect he’ll spend more time at first base than we all expect.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 20, 2011 8:37 PM EST reply actions
Yup
I actually THOUGHT he was a firstbaseman, so I was quite surprised to learn that he hadn’t played the position in his entire career in organized ball. But, like they say, “It’s never to late to learn…”
I see this guy spelling Goldie at first against certain right handers or when he’s mired in some kind of slumpy thing.
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 20, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think I'm one of the guys
On the extreme other end of the spectrum. I think he’s a .285/.335/.410 guy, with a chance for real upside. I don’t see Kubel’s 110 wRC+ (or wherever in that vicinity he lands) being much better than Parra with that offensive line and his great defense.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 21, 2011 1:59 AM EST up reply actions
i actually am probably
on the low-side of Parra’s offensive projections. i think i’d bet that Kubel would put a higher offensive WAR than PAR, but lower overall WAR
as for this move, i just really dislike GM’s like KT and moves like this. it’d be the exact opposite of my MO if i were the GM. simply put, KT loves redundancy.
to me there are GM’s of the Andrew Friedman variety. every move is basically calculated from an expected value standpoint and return on investment. this is of course, my ideal GM.
then there are the GM’s like Cashman and to an extent Epstein for the past two years, and what DiPoto did with the Angels this year. overpay for free agent talent, but the reason for that is because you understand that WAR has increasing marginal cost, and thus you always have to pay a premium for the top talent. i actually don’t mind this type of philosophy. of course, i don’t think this should be applied to every free agent and definitely not for every team every winter. but used sparingly, and if you pick your spots, even the Dbacks could succeed with a strategy like this.
then there are GM’s like Sabean and to some extent Amaro. you win, and basically it means a fat payday for anyone who helped you win in the past regardless of what they might contribute in the future (Huff, Howard signings). too easily swayed by emotional considerations of how you look at a player. to an extent, KT is like this as well, but not close to as bad as Sabean or Amaro.
then there’s KT and his biggest flaw. he’s basically as risk averse as you can get. this leads to excessive payment of insurance. what people don’t realize, is that anytime you buy insurance you pay a premium because insurance includes a fundamental transaction cost. a second major problem with this strategy, is that you are constantly preventing the maximization of your assets. the flip side, is with enough insurance, you can always maintain a baseline of success. it’s the “as long as i do this, my team will always be decent enough so i don’t get fired, but my team will rarely be good enough to contend for a WS” strategy as a GM. i can understand why he does it as an individual. as a fan of the team, it pisses me off.
by blue bulldog on Dec 21, 2011 4:41 AM EST up reply actions
So essentially
it wouldn’t matter what KT did, you’re predisposed to dislike the move.
Tomorrow is another day.
no
trust me, if KT signed Reyes i would have lauded the move
by blue bulldog on Dec 21, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Being risk averse
is not a flaw. You’ll learn that soon in your field.
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 21, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
i don't disagree
especially in law, being risk averse is very important
but at the end of the day, being risk averse is about covering your own butt (especially in law……)
for people who watch football, it’s sort of similar to the 4th quarter defense when you’re up by a field goal. you play extremely conservative zone defenses with minimal blitzing. it’s bad for fans, because your expected value of winning is lower than if you actually just stuck to the defensive game plan that got you to your lead in the first place. it’s good for the coach, because everyone is expected to do it, and if you deviate from the norm and something goes wrong, you’re chance of getting fired just went up, but if you stick to the norm and something goes wrong, you can just point your finger at your own defense and say “well look, our defense just didn’t execute”
by blue bulldog on Dec 21, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
The "prevent defense"
As my father says, the only thing it prevents is winning.
This is really sound logic
and I love this argument simply because it makes such good sense. But at the end of the day, does every GM move have to satisfy the sabremetric analysis? On one hand one has to love that baseball performance is so eminently measurable by statistical analysis. But isn’t it enough sometimes to just keep adding good baseball players to your team? There are a ton of intangibles to how the course of a baseball season plays out. Clubhouse harmony, injuries, regression, progression, hot streaks, cold streaks, off-the-field factors, luck, the inexact science of projections, etc. When analyzed in the semi-vacuum of Kubel versus Parra it’s not hard to make the case that it’s an odd move. But from the simplest point of view, we just added a thumping LH hitting left fielder to our roster. How can it be so easy to deny that isn’t a good thing? Was there possibly a more perfect acquisition to made than Kubel? On the surface it’s hard to deny that answer has to be a resounding yes. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that this is a bad move. I sure as heck like our four outfielders a lot more than I did before we got him. And while I’m typically not an insurance buying kind of guy, this is pretty darned good insurance that has the potential to be much more than that. I must confess though that it’s easier for me to make this argument because I am definitely bearish on Parra. Apparently the people that matter in the organization feel the same way.
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
by sonic barracuda on Dec 22, 2011 2:53 AM EST up reply actions
I think he's emerging as a hitter
so I’m with Dan on this one.
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 21, 2011 9:24 AM EST up reply actions
No emergence if he doesn't
play regularly.
"The kingdoms of Experience, In the precious wind they rot, While paupers change possessions, Each one wishing for what the other has got, And the princess and the prince, Discuss what's real and what is not, It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden." B. Dylan
Don't think it's the gamble you say it is
He is healthy, he is 29, he shouldn’t be much more of a risk than any other healthy 29 year old.
He has the knee surgery from back in 2005 or so, which makes his knee a little more suspect than somebody who’s never had that issue, but that’s well behind him.
Obviously, if you were expecting big things from Parra offensively, you wouldn’t like this trade. I think expecting that from Parra is a bigger gamble than Kubel’s ability to hold up physically for a season. The D’backs had a special and unusual thing going last year, doing it without what is typically needed in an offensive lineup to be successful. You can’t count on that happening again. They needed that LH bat in the middle of the lineup. Kubel is a professional hitter who will hit for power and average on the left side and if the D’backs are to repeat as division winners and have a chance to go further in the post season this time, they needed that in the lineup.
They’ve improved their pitching, they’ve improved their hitting, they are slightly compromised on defense in the process assuming Parra is still around to fill in defensively and across the OF as needed.
Most of the D'Back pitchers
are pitch to contact guys, therefore they rely on strong defenders to make the play. Any ‘compromise in defense’ under such conditions is material and substantial.
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 22, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, but.......
They may be fly ball pitchers, but they aren’t line drive pitchers. If they are line drive pitchers, we have a whole different set of problems.
If maximizing defense is your goal, then McDonald should be the every day SS, Blanco the C, Parra should be the every day RF with his arm, Blum should start at 3B and Overbay can start at 1B.
There are compromises being made in those spots that I guess would have to be considered material and substantial, no?
Your outlining of McDonald, Blanco, et al
Is the massive extreme of the argument that provides no real value to the discussion. If Parra hit like McDonald, of course we would bench him. But he doesn’t, he hits for pretty good contact to add to his awesome glove.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 22, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Pointing out
that defensive compromise is widespread and at some level integral to team success, in response to a specific claim that “any” AZ defensive compromise is material and substantial, advances the dialog, in my view.
Certainly more than preening that someone’s considered and polite response “has no real value”.
by Diamondhacks on Dec 22, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I was brash
But NASCAR didn’t say that defensive considerations were the only material thing that Arizona needed to consider, just that they were material. Taking it to extremes doesn’t lead the discussion to a logical conclusion, and Fangdango knew that when he was responding, and knew what he was doing with his response.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 22, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
In relative terms
Parra hits like McDonald as a Left Fielder. His only real value as a LF is his glove. I think that adds value to the discussion, though not value you appreciate obviously.
Not quite sure
you’re putting your best cleats forward on this one: a healthy Drew is a solid defender; Miggy has become a strong defensive catcher and as far as I’m concerned, Parra needs to be the everyday left fielder. I don’t know about Blum’s defense – Dread Pirate’s D at 3rd was competent, and Goldschmidt was more than adequate at first during his time there.
On the other hand, from nearly everything I’ve seen and heard about Kubel, he was what the AL had in “mind” (I use the term hesitantly) when they enacted the abomination.
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 22, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
Drew is an okay defender
Not in McDonald’s league as a defensive SS though. This forum is honestly the first place I’ve ever seen or heard anybody consider Miggy as strong defensively. I just don’t know where that comes from, other than his improved throwing, but I consider him a liability defensively overall.
I was actually very pleased with Goldschmidt’s defense in his limited sample last season. I’d go so far as to say I thought he played excellently in the field. But that’s not his reputation coming up and Overbay is a proven quality glove at 1B.
As for Kubel, as I’ve stated before, I believe the reaction to his defense has been an overreaction based on small sample size and selective sats/metrics. He is not a guy who doesn’t make the plays he’s supposed to make out there. He’s not out there dropping fly balls, committing errors, not hitting cutoff men, etc. He’s limited in his range compared to Parra, for sure, and might not have quite the arm, but he’s the incompetent or incapable boob that the DH was created for from anything I’ve seen or read.
lulz
“material and substantial”
sounds so legal
by blue bulldog on Dec 23, 2011 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
"slightly compromised"...
Going from a one-win defender to someone who is, at best, a minus-half-win defender (at worst a minus-one-and-a-half-win defender) is not a slight compromise.
Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.
by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 22, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
I tend to agree with the Parra projections
I don’t see Parra as a significant offensive force, and believe he would be an ideal 4th outfielder, or a good candidate for a LF platoon. But since Kubel is a lefty, it can’t be the platoon thing, so it must be the 4th OF thing.
So if Kubel can play 140 games of average defense in LF, bats .280 with 30HR and plays a solid LF then this is probably a decent signing, if you are in the “win now” mode (that is, don’t worry about extending Miggy because you already have him for the next couple years). IMO, the odds of this outcome are slim – that would be about his best season ever at an age when most players (especially big slow ones with injury histories) start to decline.
However, if Kubel plays a below average LF and hits .260 with 18 HRs, then this is a TERRIBLE signing (likely no improvement over Parra at a cost of an extra $14M). I think Kubel has a reasonable chance of bettering those offensive numbers (but not by a lot), but I expect him to be a liability on defense, especially as the season wears on.
Finally – are the D-Backs better now than before the signing? Assuming they cut Blum, I think the answer is yes – but not anywhere near $14M better.
That would be tragic.
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 21, 2011 9:24 AM EST up reply actions
.. is tragic.
Maybe we’ll get to see a catcher logjam next year.
"The kingdoms of Experience, In the precious wind they rot, While paupers change possessions, Each one wishing for what the other has got, And the princess and the prince, Discuss what's real and what is not, It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden." B. Dylan
One almost gets the sense that
KT signed Kubel thinking about last year’s playoff series. I can see the internal conversation going something like, “Man, if Kubel had the 25 at bats Para had against the Brewers we win that series.”
I don’t entirely disagree with that kind of thinking and Kubel’s value might be greatest in post-season play where he is more capable of changing that one key game by running into one. Pitchers have to be more careful with him in a playoff at bat. Parra clearly doesn’t impose the same fear in pitchers that Kubel will.
Did Parra make any game-changing defensive plays in last year’s playoffs? The point being in a short series the bat might play bigger than the glove. Just theorizing here. Maybe Parra has more value over the course of a long season than in a short series that needs a few key big blows. It’s also possible this theory is simply a case of being a resulter and I’m sure has little statistical basis that could be applied. But it’s an interesting thought to me that I’m wondering if others feel has any merit.
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
by sonic barracuda on Dec 21, 2011 9:35 PM EST reply actions
OR
Kubel drops a fly ball and the series is over in four games rather than five.
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 21, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
Haha
Simple in its brevity. What, you didn’t need three paragraphs to present the other side of the argument?
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
by sonic barracuda on Dec 22, 2011 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
I'm from
the House of Occam.
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 22, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Actually the picture above
does it quicker.
"The kingdoms of Experience, In the precious wind they rot, While paupers change possessions, Each one wishing for what the other has got, And the princess and the prince, Discuss what's real and what is not, It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden." B. Dylan
Its a picture worth
a thousand hamburgers…
Is it mid-February yet?
by NASCARbernet on Dec 23, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
My hunch
is that with the anticipated staff upgrades of Cahill, Saito and imminent phenoms, KT thinks he’ll prevent more runs from the mound than last year, and therefore may not feel quite so dependent on keeping the NL’s best OF defense in tact. It’s not that he doesnt value defense or understand that Kubel is a liability there. But maybe he figures a staff and defense working in concert can only prevent so many runs (ie there’s a downward limit/ diminishing returns), and he’ll get a more favorable return and run distribution by becoming a little more dynamic on the offensive side of the ball.
by Diamondhacks on Dec 21, 2011 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
this is what i've been trying to say all along
if you support the Kubel signing it’s because you believe that there are diminishing returns to defense, which i think is a perfectly legit argument
my problem with this move has always been and will always be KT’s complete inability to maximize returns on assets he already has
by blue bulldog on Dec 22, 2011 1:29 AM EST up reply actions
Now that Beltran has signed with St. Louis........
For $26 million over 2 years, I think we can say he wasn’t an option. Does this add any additional perspective on the Kubel deal?
wait
i’m confused….isn’t Beltran’s contract exactly what we were predicting through this thread?
the fact that Beltran signed for 2/26 means that the Kubel signing makes less sense
i’d much rather have Beltran for 2/26 than Kubel for 2/15
by blue bulldog on Dec 23, 2011 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
I'd rather have beltran at 2/26 also
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
by sonic barracuda on Dec 23, 2011 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
but maybe 26 wasn't in the budget
while 15 was.
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
by sonic barracuda on Dec 23, 2011 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
it's over two years
so…it’d be whether $5 million as in the budget
i’d be pretty surprised if we couldn’t come up with $5 million (particularly since Overbay costs $1 million, Bloomquist costs $2 million, etc.)
by blue bulldog on Dec 23, 2011 2:02 AM EST up reply actions
But, but, but
quality over quantity? A new concept for KT, I’m sure, since he couldn’t specialize in logjams without copious logs.
"The kingdoms of Experience, In the precious wind they rot, While paupers change possessions, Each one wishing for what the other has got, And the princess and the prince, Discuss what's real and what is not, It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden." B. Dylan

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