Diamondbacks Non-Tender Joe Saunders and Micah Owings

by Jim McLennan on Dec 12, 2011 8:57 PM EST in Diamondbacks News

Ken Rosenthal reports that the Diamondbacks have non-tendered both Joe Saunders and Micah Owings. However, he adds that the team will likely try to sign both, but that the market will likely be "robust" for Saunders.

In two years with Arizona, Saunders went 15-20, but had a decent 3.85 ERA (105 ERA+). He was in his final year of arbitration, and having earned $5.5 million last year, was likely in line for something around $8 million in 2012. Owings, in his second stint with the team, had a 3.57 ERA with three starts in his 33 games and 63 innings of work. He went a perfect 8-0, though it took Ryan Roberts' bottom of the 10th-inning grand-slam against the Dodgers to keep things that way, Owings having allowed five runs in the top of the frame.

Moves over the past couple of days did appear to throw a damper on the chances of both men being retained, with Trever Cahill arriving in to the rotation from Oakland, along with reliever Craig Breslow. The signing of Takashi Saito earlier today likely filled up the last spot in the bullpen, which now looks to be: J.J. Putz, David Hernandez, Saito, Breslow, Joe Paterson, Bryan Shaw and Brad Ziegler. As others have noted, there's not much in the way of an obvious long-man there, so it's still possible Owings might serve that role, with Shaw the most likely to be optioned to Reno as a result.

Saunders should have little problem finding some kind of employment for the 2012 season, though whether it will be at the $8 million or so he'd have got if we'd gone to arbitration, remains to be seen. While Arizona will try to sign him, Kevin Towers described the gap between the parties as "significant" when speaking after the Cahill trade, and this decision seems unlikely to have closed it. The Diamondbacks rotation would seem to be leaning toward Ian Kennedy, Daniel Hudson, Cahill, Josh Collmenter and whichever one of the pitching prospects impresses in spring training, alongside the likes of those with experience such as Wade Miley, Barry Enright, etc.

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It would be a mistake

to send Shaw to Reno. He was filthy last year and more during the playoffs.

Twitter
Mr. Hall, you WILL beat it!

by dbacks25 on Dec 12, 2011 9:00 PM EST reply actions

Agreed

Shaw is like a poor man’s Sean Marshall. Or the new Sean Marshall. Or maybe Sean Marshall is an overpaid Bryan Shaw

This is my signature.. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My signature is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My signature, without me, is useless. Without my signature, I am useless...

by Torpedosneak on Dec 13, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions

Because of the log jam in the rotation and the pen

its a good wager than some more horsetrading is in the offing…

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 12, 2011 9:11 PM EST reply actions

Nah

They like competition. That way they can decide whose best using small sample sizes.

"The kingdoms of Experience, In the precious wind they rot, While paupers change possessions, Each one wishing for what the other has got, And the princess and the prince, Discuss what's real and what is not, It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden." B. Dylan

by xmet on Dec 12, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions

I know they do

but they can’t carry everybody, and it’s not very economical to have to release people after they falter. So, my guess is another deal or two will be in the works.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 12, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions

we could send paterson down

for a longman

by rfffr on Dec 12, 2011 9:17 PM EST reply actions

I don't even think we need a longman

Just let Breslow and Shaw go multiple innings.

"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung

by txzona on Dec 12, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions

If the starters do what they are supposed to do,

there shouldn’t be a great need for a long man.

by xmet on Dec 12, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions

But with a young guy potentially being in the rotation,

We’ll probably be careful with the innings.

by Cardscrazy247 on Dec 14, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions

The approach used by AJ Hinch

and others, to bring in the bullpen as a matter of course, rather than depending on how a pitcher is pitching, is a losing proposition. If a young pitcher has a shutout going after six innings, if he’s throwing well, why bring him out? The ‘inning/pitch count’ watch is seriously overrated.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 14, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions

I agree

Unless he is erratic there is no need to take him out.

But with our bullpen, if a guy is getting hit hard take him out.

Gibson seems to have the opposite problem of leaving guys in too long.

"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung

by txzona on Dec 14, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions

... Said Dusty Baker to his twin young aces, Kerry Wood and Mark Prior

It’s probably taken too far today, but it has a point and some merit.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 14, 2011 7:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

Wood gets little sympathy from me

because he overthrew his fastball, a lot. I didn’t get to see Prior pitch, so I don’t know what his problem was.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 14, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions

He also had pitch counts regularly above 130.

Blaming either as the entire cause of his struggles probably means you miss the overall picture.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 14, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions

Oh, do so enlighten me

oh great one. Haven’t I ALWAYS advocated that pitchers tone down their approach from throwing every pitch as hard as they can?

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 14, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions

it's been shown

relievers the first time through the order tend to be way more effective than a starter the third or fourth time through the order

look at how Roy Halladay blew the game against us this year. probably would not have happened if they just substituted a relief pitcher.

by blue bulldog on Dec 15, 2011 12:41 AM EST up reply actions

Thou shalt never take Roy Halladay out in the 9th inning.

"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung

by txzona on Dec 16, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions

Goodness.

Not my point.

That’s 100% true. Throwing super super hard probably caused some of it. But “no remorse” just seems a tad strong, considering that he also had such enormous pitch counts. Both of those things raise the odds of injury, and Wood was subjected to both of them, one from himself and one from his manager. That’s all I’m saying.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 15, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions

No reason to let Shaw and Paterson wallow away in the minors

For Micah Owings. I would bet that it’s an MiLB deal or no deal for him at this point, sadly. Seems like farewell to me.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 12, 2011 9:33 PM EST reply actions

though you could make an argument that he's the best hitter we would have on the bench

by CaptainCanuck on Dec 12, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions

yes,

If you'd have been a dog.....
They would of drowned you at birth.

by edbigghead on Dec 12, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions

We could just use Hudson off the bench.

"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung

by txzona on Dec 12, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions

Can he play outfield?

Maybe there’s the solution to our 4th outfielder problem ;-)

by Craig from Az on Dec 13, 2011 9:44 AM EST up reply actions

Now I can get my Owings 15 jersey

to go with my signed Owings 44 jersey at fanfest.

"Hey, why don't you people watch the game?"-my mom after viewing a wave going around Chase Field.

by Reynolds rapper on Dec 13, 2011 7:15 AM EST up reply actions

Then in

a couple of years when he comes back you can get a third jersey with a third number.

Tomorrow is another day.

by soco on Dec 13, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions

Could Snakepit Nation, be sure that I pick up the Owings 15

at Fanfest? I know the proprietor of this esteemed site goes to Fanfest. So please don’t take my Owings 15. :(

"Hey, why don't you people watch the game?"-my mom after viewing a wave going around Chase Field.

by Reynolds rapper on Dec 13, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions

I imagine

Jim isn’t going to buy it, but you never know.

Tomorrow is another day.

by soco on Dec 13, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions

Could we really not find a suitor for Saunders?

I mean, he sucks and all, but it’s not like he isn’t serviceable, and he wasn’t going to cost much in a trade. Other teams still could have worked something out with him for less than what he was projected to receive in arbitration. Meh, I guess it’s not a big deal.

Anyone know where out payroll’s at?

by CaptainCanuck on Dec 12, 2011 9:33 PM EST reply actions

The other teams probably figured they could get him

without giving up more than his salary if they waited for KT to release him. And Saunders knew that he would probably be flipped if he signed any contract KT offered, so why sign cheap?

by xmet on Dec 12, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions

I agree

was really hoping/thinking they would find a trade partner. With the lack of SP on the FA market, and rumored interest from teams like the Red Sox, I was sure we would get something. I assume the FO tried…but if he signs with a different team for 8M, I’m gonna be pissed.

For crying out loud, the A’s milked some team for a league average starter…surely Saunders should have fetched something ;)

by Counsellmember on Dec 12, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I think

We either made the Cahill trade too late to move Joe (i.e. other teams wanted to acquire Saunders earlier to have exclusive negotiation rights, but post-Cahill trade they didn’t feel that they had enough of a window to negotiate to make it worth giving something up), or Arizona still has some hopes of bringing Saunders back, and didn’t want to completely give up the ability to negotiate with him by moving him before the non-tender date.

And a tiny bit under $60MM, as mentioned in the Saito post.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 12, 2011 11:09 PM EST up reply actions

We signed SAITO?

WTF? He’s in his 40’s! Why oh why do we want him? I am so PISSED!

I got sprayed by Ryan Roberts!!!

by Rockkstarr12 on Dec 12, 2011 9:36 PM EST reply actions

Ahhh?

He’s actually really good considering the price.

"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung

by txzona on Dec 12, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Till he blows his arm/elbow/shoulder out...

I got sprayed by Ryan Roberts!!!

by Rockkstarr12 on Dec 12, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions

Or more likely a

hamstring.

by xmet on Dec 13, 2011 7:34 AM EST up reply actions

Does this has anything to do

with Saunders not coming back? Or what’s so bad about Saito that you clearly don’t like?

Twitter
Mr. Hall, you WILL beat it!

by dbacks25 on Dec 12, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Yes and no

Yes, I am PISSED that we non-tendered Joe…but I hope KT re-signs him (there is that possibility, so the reports say)…but I think it’s stupid to sign a guy in his 40’s for our bullpen. Let’s see how long he stays healthy!

I got sprayed by Ryan Roberts!!!

by Rockkstarr12 on Dec 12, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions

Yet

You’re a pretty big Henry Blanco fan, right?

Wear your own fur.

by Marc Fournier on Dec 13, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Henry was 39 when he came here...he's not 42 like Saito

And I’ve been a Blanco fan since his days in Colorado

I miss you Bazooka Joe!!!

Rockkstarr11: 2011 Bryman School Graduate & Die-hard Diamondback/Rockie Fan

by Rockkstarr12 on Dec 17, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions

Saito at 41 was pretty darned good

Why would he fall of the cliff at 42?

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 17, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions

Not a prediction, but

he was on the DL half of last year, and as he gets older, the cliff approaches rapidly. I would love to be 42 again, but not as a ball player.

by xmet on Dec 17, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions

You are making me feel old

I really can’t believe 42 is that far in the rearview mirror already

The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.

by shoewizard on Dec 17, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions

Ah yes, to be 42 again

If only I knew then what I know now…

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 17, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions

I don't think he was THAT good

He spent half the season last year on the DL!

I miss you Bazooka Joe!!!

Rockkstarr11: 2011 Bryman School Graduate & Die-hard Diamondback/Rockie Fan

by Rockkstarr12 on Dec 18, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions

Owned Arizona in the playoffs - three scoreless innings

Seven scoreless postseason innings overall. Most important value of the year for a contending team like Arizona, no?

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 18, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions

He's never had

A season with an ERA above 3 in America. If he keeps doing that, I don’t particularly care how old he is.

Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.

by Zavada's Moustache on Dec 12, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

40 is the new 18

Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3

by Clefo on Dec 12, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions

Hah!

No rental cars for you, Mr. Saito.

Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.

by Zavada's Moustache on Dec 12, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions

2/14/1970 makes him 42

when the season starts. Double 21, or only 6 dog years.

by xmet on Dec 12, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions

ahhh April...

Don’t be sad!

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 12, 2011 9:48 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions

I just don't get some of KT's moves

I got sprayed by Ryan Roberts!!!

by Rockkstarr12 on Dec 12, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions

Neither do I

But I get this one.

Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3

by Clefo on Dec 12, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs

+1

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 12, 2011 10:11 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions

+2

"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung

by txzona on Dec 12, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions

+3

by Bryn21 on Dec 12, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions

Well

That’s 6 more +’s than I had yesterday morning

Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3

by Clefo on Dec 13, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions

lol

rec’d

by blue bulldog on Dec 12, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions

ditto

The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.

by shoewizard on Dec 13, 2011 7:32 AM EST up reply actions

I'm not with you guys on this one

Saunders isn’t fancy, but he’s competent and solid.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 13, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I know it’s buried, but April was responding to the Saito signing, not the Saunders move.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 13, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions

Oh...

Yeah, this is probably a good move. :-)

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 13, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions

+4

you win the internet

by CaptainCanuck on Dec 13, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions

It's a depth move.

"Hey, why don't you people watch the game?"-my mom after viewing a wave going around Chase Field.

by Reynolds rapper on Dec 13, 2011 7:16 AM EST up reply actions

I'm assuming this has to do with owings, right ?

Most of the time you are really unhappy with a move is because it takes away a roster spot from a player you really like,

I could be wrong….just guessing. ;)

The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.

by shoewizard on Dec 13, 2011 7:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I don't get it and I refuse to like it!

I got sprayed by Ryan Roberts!!!

by Rockkstarr12 on Dec 12, 2011 10:29 PM EST reply actions

low risk, decent reward

even if he does blow out his shoulder or whatever, it’s not like we’re sinking substantial money into him in a multi-year deal. Barring any injuries, I think he can be a very good 7th or 8th inning guy who can occasionally close out a game to give Putz or Hernandez a rest. And I’d much rather have a 40 year old reliever who had very good production just a couple years ago than a 28 year old reliever whose mediocre and chances are you’d have to pay more for the latter.

I hate "Red Sox Nation"

by superwong18 on Dec 12, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions

well so much for the idea that the DBacks

would simply stand pat and bring back the entire lineup, I just don;t think anyone was expecting the pitching staff to undergo such a dramatic transformation considering the improvements that were made from 2010, then again, they might have done better by picking 10 folks out of the stands too…

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Dec 12, 2011 10:49 PM EST reply actions

i think this is good though

our pitching was set for major regression in my mind, and i’m glad we recognized that and made adjustments as necessary

by blue bulldog on Dec 12, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions

Well

I’m guessing this means that Owings career with the Dbacks is over. I doubt they sign him this offseason, and it doesn’t seem likely that they will sign him for a third stint with the franchise later on down the road. Same goes for Saunders, I think. If they haven’t signed him yet, I doubt they will…

Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.

by imstillhungry95 on Dec 13, 2011 12:05 AM EST reply actions

Two

names I’m familiar with. Did y’all think the Diamondbacks just don’t need an arm in Saunders, or was it strictly about price? Combo of both?

Buried Treasure: #20 Pirates Prospect - Clay Holmes
Buried Treasure: Five Million Dollar Men
Shenanigans

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 3:21 AM EST reply actions

When he couldn't crack the top 3 starters

value goes way down. They are better off with Collmenter as 4 and Minor league starter du jour as 5.

"Hey, why don't you people watch the game?"-my mom after viewing a wave going around Chase Field.

by Reynolds rapper on Dec 13, 2011 7:18 AM EST up reply actions

Yep

8.5 million is too much to pay for a 5fh starter.

"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung

by txzona on Dec 13, 2011 8:29 AM EST up reply actions

Or even

a fourth starter, IMO

Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.

by imstillhungry95 on Dec 13, 2011 9:50 AM EST up reply actions

That would be the 4th starter, right?

Although I am OK with letting Saunders go, as long as we use the money to sign Montero to an extension, or trade for some young middle infield help.

by Craig from Az on Dec 13, 2011 9:52 AM EST up reply actions

What's

going on with Bauer? Any chance he starts out of the gate next year?

Buried Treasure: #20 Pirates Prospect - Clay Holmes
Buried Treasure: Five Million Dollar Men
Shenanigans

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions

There's a good chance

Since Parker was likely the first of the big prospects to get a rotation shot, Bauer becomes the next in line. It’s probably going to be either him or Miley in the 5th spot. A midseason callup is likely the latest we see him.

Where have you gone, Greg Colbrunn?

by SenSurround on Dec 13, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions

i would love to see Bauer

in the rotation right from opening day

by blue bulldog on Dec 13, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions

I think most of us

Echo this sentiment.

Where have you gone, Greg Colbrunn?

by SenSurround on Dec 13, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions

It'll

be exciting to watch. I’m not that high on Bauer, but I’m open to be proven wrong.

Buried Treasure: #19 Pirates Prospect - Zach Von Rosenberg
Buried Treasure: Five Million Dollar Men
Shenanigans

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions

What's your reasoning

For not being that high on Bauer? I’ve just never heard anything but good things about him as a prospect.

Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.

by Zavada's Moustache on Dec 13, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions

there are some people

who aren’t that high on Bauer

Jason Parks at BP for instance

but at least both Callis (and BA overall) and Sickels are pretty high on him

by blue bulldog on Dec 13, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions

maybe because of his unorthodox workout regimen?

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 13, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions

FTR

when I say “I’m not high” I mean I expect him to settle in as a great #2 rather than an Ace. It’s not that I see him busting or becoming a back of the rotation guy.

His curveball is fantastic, but there were reports around draft time that his absurd numbers in college came from exploiting college hitters with that curveball. The theory was Bauer would be unable to do something similar (basically he was just throwing it quite often so it bounced well before the plate; it was so good college level hitters couldn’t lay off) against professional hitters at the major league level.

I certainly could be wrong, but that and a lack of great command on his fastball (again on reports) make me pause for a second.

Again, I hate to come across as a jerk, but it’s how I feel. Again, I wouldn’t be mad at all if Bauer made me eat my words.

Buried Treasure: #19 Pirates Prospect - Zach Von Rosenberg
Buried Treasure: Five Million Dollar Men
Shenanigans

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions

Is it "lack of command"

or “lots and lots of movement?”

If it’s lots of movement, command isn’t as important as it would be for most ordinary mortals.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 13, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions

Stuff

I read said his command was average at best at the moment with his fastball. It has good velocity, but I don’t remember it having exceptional movement.

Buried Treasure: #19 Pirates Prospect - Zach Von Rosenberg
Buried Treasure: Five Million Dollar Men
Shenanigans

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions

Not coming across as a jerk at all.

I like hearing different opinions, since there’s a tendency here to portray Bauer as some sort of a golden god. I think the control issues are well-founded, as he struggled with his walk rate in his short time in the minors last year. But like NASCAR mentioned above, only time will tell whether that comes from a lack of command, or just absurd amounts of movement on his pitches.

But in general, I’m pretty happy with a prospect who has a floor of being “just” a number-2 starter. :)

Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.

by Zavada's Moustache on Dec 13, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions

Right

you aren’t coming off as a jerk. It’s just some people (mainly over at minor league ball) are labeling him as a no-doubt ace and I disagree.

I’d say #3 floor, #1 ceiling (not necessarily an ace), with a good shot to reach that ceiling or close to it.

For the record, I define “Ace” as a top 10 pitcher in baseball, while a #1 is a 10-30 guy, roughly.

Buried Treasure: #19 Pirates Prospect - Zach Von Rosenberg
Buried Treasure: Five Million Dollar Men
Shenanigans

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions

Predicting ace-hood

is like picking penny stocks, its an exercise in chaos.

But Bauer has as good of a chance to be a Number One Ace as anyone whom hasn’t thrown a single pitch of major league ball.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 13, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions

When

you put it like that, ya I agree..

The question is.. where do I rank on that list?

Buried Treasure: #19 Pirates Prospect - Zach Von Rosenberg
Buried Treasure: Five Million Dollar Men
Shenanigans

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions

Well, somewhere below Baeur.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 13, 2011 8:01 PM EST up reply actions

There is only one "golden god"

and that would be ihsb. Bow to him when he speaks He is the person who knows it all and tells no lies

by AzDbackfanInDc on Dec 13, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions

Those are all the same concerns I've heard

The fastball command thing is pretty concerning, considering how we’ve all watched Ian Kennedy become a stud because of a 90 mph fastball he can put a centimeter away from your left anterior metacarpal if he so chooses (totally made up that bone name, BTW – I’ll be shocked if it’s right).

Command is a powerful thing.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 14, 2011 1:18 AM EST up reply actions

Command and control

is all about consistency, balance, muscle memory and repetition. His control issues are probably the result of some degree of inconsistency in his windup and delivery point, which are correctable once these inconsistencies are identified.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 14, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions

Exactly

And much as he’s repeated his mechanics for years, the complexity of them makes lapses in mechanics and occasional meltdowns a possibility.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 14, 2011 7:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

When in doubt

there’s always the backdoor slider.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 14, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions

Curveball, for him.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 14, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions

Well then

there’s something for him to yet learn…

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 14, 2011 11:57 PM EST up reply actions

He has a slider

It’s average. He also has a “reverse-slider”. That will be incredibly fun to finally see in person.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 15, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions

THAT ONE

is not likely to remain, if he’s throwing what I think you are suggesting.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 15, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions

Sorta screwball-ish pitch

Yep, that’s what I’m suggesting. Is that caps lock emotion an emotion of excitement or horror?

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 15, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions

Horror

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 15, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions

Why?

Causes arm issues or something?

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 16, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions

In the long run, yes

in the short term, it takes so much energy to throw, it diminishes the velocity and movement on the fastball.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 16, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions

Hmmmm

Seems to be working fine so far, though. :-P

We’ll have to see what happens. Pitchers have had issues in the past with having too many pitches and not knowing when to throw them, and thus not choosing to throw their best pitches often enough. That could happen with Bauer, and it’ll be interesting to see if we cut down his arsenal some.

I believe I’ve said this before… :-P

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 17, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions

why aren't you high on Bauer?

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 13, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions

I'm putting my money on him being a mid-season callup.

As awesome as it would be to see him pitching in April, there’s absolutely no reason to rush him.

The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.

by Stupendous Man on Dec 13, 2011 1:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

Micah Owings needs to make the Rick Ankiel switch.

People would be saying “Babe Ruth, who?” after a few seasons of Owings terrifying major league pitchers.

The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.

by Stupendous Man on Dec 13, 2011 9:01 AM EST via mobile reply actions

As someone

suggested above, maybe we should just make him our fourth outfielder, and he can work his way up from there

Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.

by imstillhungry95 on Dec 13, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions

I was mostly being facetious, but making him a fourth outfielder makes sense. It’s a wonder the Diamondbacks or Reds didn’t try it before.

The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.

by Stupendous Man on Dec 13, 2011 10:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

Don't underestimate Owings as a long relief man

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 13, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions

+1

Twitter
Mr. Hall, you WILL beat it!

by dbacks25 on Dec 13, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions

I'm not

underestingmating him, I just don’t see room for him in the bullpen, and he would probably make a way better 4th outfielder than Bloomquist

Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.

by imstillhungry95 on Dec 13, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions

+2

by ShucksBoWalter on Dec 14, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions

Owings is pretty flawed as a hitter

He hits for power, bit his on-base skills would be atrocious in full-time duty, and he doesn’t have great speed or quickness to man a premium position to make up for it.

Kind of like Ankiel’s on-base skills are, actually.

He’s better as a long reliever.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions

Moreover

he looks awkward a lot of times at the plate.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 13, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions

and if I remember correctly

Ankiel got to the point where he was walking 10 guys per 9 and just could not find his control. It’s not like Owings is at that point and why would a team want to waste their time and money on a guy to have him convert to a position player in the minors when he could still have some value as a pitcher in the majors.

I hate "Red Sox Nation"

by superwong18 on Dec 13, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions

KT making more

good decisions. This is so weird. Not having Shaw in the bullpen next year would be tragic, though.

Really excited for 2012.

Goldy Watch: 48 games, .250/.333/.474

by Jdub220 on Dec 13, 2011 10:06 AM EST reply actions

they just need to hold out

til midseason imo

we have another couple of arms in Munson and Marshall that could help out probably sometime midseason. or convert some of that excess starter baggage in the minors (Brewer, Anderson) to relief roles.

best part of having tons of good relievers? the ability to trade them to teams like the Rangers who will overpay for them….

by blue bulldog on Dec 13, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions

Haha,

I love that even though Jon Daniels has built an amazing team and farm system and is almost certainly one of the top 5 GMs in the game, he’ll never be able to escape bb’s criticism of the Adams trade. :-P

Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.

by Zavada's Moustache on Dec 13, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions

lol

yeah, i’m probably being too harsh on him

he has built a pretty insane farm, especially given how stacked the team is already

the Adams trade is just incredibly frustrating, if only because we’ll have to deal with Erlin and possibly Wieland as well as Padres

by blue bulldog on Dec 13, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions

This exchange

reminds me of this

Jon Daniels: We want Heath Bell, but we’re not giving up too much for a rental.

Jed Hoyer: We want two pitchers. They need to strike out bunch of dudes, but they can’t walk anyone.

Jon Daniels: Fair enough.

Jed Hoyer: How about Joseph Weiland and Robert Erlin? They walked 21 batters this year and struck out 255 batters in 251 innings. We want two pitchers. They need to strike out bunch of dudes, but they can’t walk anyone.

Jon Daniels: Jeez, that’s a lot. We can’t do that for a rental.

Jed Hoyer: We want two pitchers. They need to strike out bunch of dudes, but they can’t walk anyone.

Jon Daniels: Okay, we’ll do that for Mike Adams … but you’ll also need to give up your organizational secrets. How do you find so many good relievers? Is it the park?

Jed Hoyer: Get a pile of pitchers. They need to strike out bunch of dudes, but they can’t walk anyone.

Jon Daniels: I’ll bet it’s the park. They’re just so confident with the big outfield.