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Around SBN: Upon Further Review: Bo Knows Longreads

D-backs Sign RHP Takashi Saito

Fresh off the weekend swap of Jarrod Parker for Trevor Cahill (et al), D-backs GM Kevin Towers made another splash on Monday evening, signing right-handed reliever Takashi Saito. The signing was first reported by Jim Bowden of ESPN and CBS's Jon Heyman on Twitter. Anthony Jackson, a beat reporter for the Dodgers, reports that the deal is a one-year contract. More terms of the move have yet to come out, but it seems like another solid acquisition for Towers, finishing off what looks to be a dangerous pitching staff for 2012. [Hat-tip to battlemoses for the original Fanshot]

Update: Terms of the contract are out, and it's a one-year, $1.75MM contract, according to Heyman. Hat-tip to G.O.B. for the link

Star-divide

Saito came to the US from Japan in 2006 as a 36-year-old, where he had three phenomenal years as L.A.'s closer, working in 180 games and throwing 189.2 innings with the Dodgers with a combined 1.95 ERA - good for a fabulous 227 ERA+ - 11.6 K/9, and 2.5 BB/9. Saito missed some time in his final year with the Dodgers, working in just 47 innings with them that year but still managing to post a 2.49 ERA while on the mound.

Over the next few years, either age and injury concerns or simply Saito's preferences would limit him to a series of one-year deals. Saito settled for a one-year deal from the Red Sox the following season - 2009 - Saito's age-39 campaign, and though Saito worked only 55.2 innings over 56 appearances for Boston that year, he still posted a 2.43 ERA and 194 ERA+. The following year, Saito signed another one-year contract with Atlanta, working 54 innings over 56 games with a 2.83 ERA, good for a 139 ERA+. Then, last year, Saito joined Milwaukee on a one-year pact, and while he was as sharp as ever when on the mound, with a 2.03 ERA and 195 ERA+, he had his most injury-riddled year, working just 26.2 innings over 30 appearances.

Still, Saito has yet to have big-league season in which he has posted an ERA over 3 or ERA+ under 139, and sports career average rates of 10.7 K/9, 2.8 BB/9, and 0.6 HR/9. He had a down-year in 2011 in terms of peripherals, with just a 7.8 K/9 and 3.0 BB/9 with Milwaukee, but given the small size of that sample and the 11.5 K/9 and 2.8 BB/9 Saito had in 2010 with the Braves, it's not overly concerning, especially on a one-year contract. As Arizona showed last year with J.J. Putz, GM Kevin Towers and Manager Kirk Gibson is willing to treat relievers with kid gloves as far as workloads are concerned so long as they provide elite performance when they take the mound, and Saito offers a good chance of providing just that.

With the signing of Saito and the acquisition of left-hander Craig Breslow in the trade on Saturday, it seems that GM Kevin Towers has finished rounding out the bullpen for 2012. Health permitting for all involved, Putz will return to his closer role, with David Hernandez setting up, Saito working the seventh, Bryan Shaw filling in the seventh when either Putz or Saito need a day off, Joe Paterson working as the primary lefty specialist, Brad Ziegler as a right-handed specialist, and Breslow offering a left-hander capable of going through a full inning.

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I believe I speak for many when I say:

Squee

Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3

by Clefo on Dec 12, 2011 7:03 PM EST reply actions  

He's s'posed to be

pretty good, isn’t he?

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 12, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions  

He's better than

Getting a sharp stick and going all Oedipus on your eyes

Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3

by Clefo on Dec 12, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

So, he'll be our Hercules

to the Dodgers’ Cacus?

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 12, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Word to your mother.

Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.

by Zavada's Moustache on Dec 12, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

So, this is fun news.

Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.

by Zavada's Moustache on Dec 12, 2011 7:19 PM EST reply actions  

Evidently, better than having

one’s eyes gouged out in a gawdy myth.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 12, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Well now,

I wouldn’t go THAT far…

Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.

by Zavada's Moustache on Dec 12, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's safe to assume he'll be an upgrade over Heilman.

"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung

by txzona on Dec 12, 2011 7:22 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Nice

All I can hope for is 50 IP of solid work. He’s too old and owns to big of an injury history to expect more, but I’m okay with that.

Side note, does anyone know where our payroll sits at right now (also factoring in arb guys)?

by CaptainCanuck on Dec 12, 2011 7:23 PM EST reply actions  

Well

Let’s see if we can piece this together.

From last year’s spreadsheet, Cot’s has $28.9MM in commitments to CY, Drew, Upton, Putz, Duke Buyout, Blum, Blanco Buyout ($250k, which we didn’t pay), and Bloomquist Buyout ($150k, which we didn’t pay). So CY, Drew, Upton, Putz, Blum, and Duke’s Buyout cost combined: $28.5MM.

Bloomquist at 2/$3.8MM is approx. $1.9MM for 2012. New total: $30.4MM

Blanco at 1/$1.2MM. New total: $31.6MM

Cahill at $3.5MM for 2012 as part of his A’s extension. New total: $35.1MM

Hill at 2/$11MM is approx. $5.5MM for 2012. New total: $40.6MM

Overbay at 1/$1MM. New total: $41.6MM

McDonald at 2/$3MM is approx $1.5MM for 2012. New total: $43.1MM

Kennedy, Collmenter, Goldschmidt, Shaw, Parra, Hernandez, Hudson, Paterson each make $480k as part of new CBA, ~$3.8MM total. New total: $46.9MM.

That’s 20 players. We have arbitration cases for Montero, Ziegler, Roberts, and Breslow that we’ll go through, and latest word is we’re non-tendering Saunders and Owings. That’s 23 players. Saito makes 24. Final spot is #5 starting rotation opening, probably from within, but who knows – Saunders remains possible, I s’pose.

Estimated arbitration costs from MLBTR: Montero ($5.3MM), Ziegler ($1.8MM), Roberts ($1.7MM), and Breslow ($1.8MM). Total arbitration costs: $10.6MM. New total: $57.5MM. Add Saito’s salary (probably >$3MM), and if we can get payroll up to $70MM this year, we have $10MM in room left. Is there enough for Kuroda? Not sure. Enough for Saunders? Probably pre-non-tender, but I imagine we’ll be out-bid now. Enough for another starter on a one-year deal? Definitely.

Roy Oswalt suddenly comes back to mind as a possibility in the 1/$9MM range, with his back issues not really too concerning since we have four spots already locked up and tons of prospects around.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 12, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Hopefully the Yankees and Red Sox stop pursing Kuroda

and he settles with us for 1 year 10 million Maybe they could add in a mutual option.

"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung

by txzona on Dec 12, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

well broken down

Fun to think about.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 12, 2011 9:37 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

sorry i have to say this

because i really just can’t let this go

but 10MM + Aaron Hill’s 5.5MM + Bloomquist’s extra $1.5MM + McDonald’s extra $1MM = Jose Reyes’s annual average salary

by blue bulldog on Dec 12, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I remain unimpressed with Wright

Quite possibly the one player who is most overvalued in the public sphere. Him or Jeter. At least among non-closers, I guess (Heath Bell, Jonathan Papelbon, et al come to mind from that group).

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not in love with Wright

But…as much as I love this team we don’t have a true 4 hole or lead off guy. So, would have liked to see that money spent on either Wright, Reyes, or someone that fits this bill. Either way…..I’m happy. Good offseason moves.

by Majabe on Dec 13, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

O

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd rather have Reyes than those guys for 2012

But I wouldn’t want Reyes in 2017 at that salary at all.

This team can’t afford that kind of risk. It’s okay, let it go. Dude is coming off an absurd peak contract year after two straight “meh” seasons.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

if we’re talking a 1 or 2 year deal at that amount, then sure. But there’s no way I want him for that long.

Tomorrow is another day.

by soco on Dec 13, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

i just can't agree

i think he maximizes our chances of winning in the next couple of years

even if he gets slightly more expensive than his on-field production 3-6 years from now, inflation helps a lot with that, so does winning/increased revenue from playoffs, and we’ll be trading our established starters for cheap prospects around that time anyway

by blue bulldog on Dec 13, 2011 9:57 AM EST up reply actions  

The risk seems worth it to me as well. But KT seems averse to this type of risk.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 13, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

KT has never been a guy to accept ups and downs

It’s kind of like what Dan O’Dowd has done in Colorado. Try to always remain on the fringes of contention and avoid periods where you tank to rebuild through the farm. It’s got some merit to it, too, considering the fact that Colorado’s been in contention for quite a while and hasn’t exactly been devoid of excellent seasons (’07 World Series run, for instance).

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I also really think

You’re overrating what Reyes will do in 2012. Literally everything improved from 2010 to his contract year in 2011. 2010 isn’t worth $18MM even today.

Also, his legs ain’t what they used to be. A big hamstring issue in 2012 or 2013 and boom, there goes your playoff odds and $18MM per year for five years.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he almost certainly won’t be worth $18M/year in his contract. I think he’ll far exceed it or he’ll fall dramatically short of it. It is most definitely a boom or bust sign.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 13, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 13, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Montero extension

and rely on the kids for the last two pitching slots.

by Craig from Az on Dec 13, 2011 9:24 AM EST up reply actions  

So bullpen is....

Putz
Hernandez
Saito
Shaw
Ziegler
Breslow
Yet-To-Be-Determined-Long-Relief-Guy-Probably Owings?

Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3

by Clefo on Dec 12, 2011 7:26 PM EST reply actions  

You can never know with bullpen arms,

But there’s reason to believe that every single one of those guys will be at least average next year. That’s a pretty far cry from 2010.

Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.

by Zavada's Moustache on Dec 12, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Where have you gone Saul Rivera?

Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3

by Clefo on Dec 12, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

looks solid

but then again, they’re relievers, and a couple of these guys have injury histories… But still, solid.

by CaptainCanuck on Dec 12, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

You missed Paterson

"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"

by Jim McLennan on Dec 12, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

I had the nagging feeling that someone wasn’t there

Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3

by Clefo on Dec 12, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

In that case,

Who gets bumped? Breslow?

Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.

by Zavada's Moustache on Dec 12, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe

No long relief?

Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3

by Clefo on Dec 12, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

no

otherwise they wouldn’t have traded for him

New England Patriots: 9-3 against the Dolphins, Chargers, Bills, Raiders, Jets (x2), Cowboys, Steelers, Giants, Chiefs, Eagles, and Colts

by freeland1787 on Dec 12, 2011 8:01 PM EST up reply actions  

No long relief man

Bullpen’s set.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 12, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

So

no more owings?

Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.

by imstillhungry95 on Dec 12, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Not necessarily

he can be offered a new contract, with terms favorable to the D’Backs. In fact, I agree with X-Met in that they’ll actually want to encourage him to return because they like having pitchers compete for spots.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 12, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless MiLB deal

I see no reason why we would even think of sending Shaw and his elite, ninth-inning potential (yup, I said it) down to Reno so that we can give Micah Owings guaranteed money. Makes zero sense.

And if Micah Owings is getting nothing more than a minor-league contract, I’d be surprised.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 12, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Not saying Hernandez doesn't have that potential

They both could close someday.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Hernandez already

showed he has the potential. When he took over when Putz went down. In fact he was pretty dominating if you ask me. Didn’t he go like 8 2/3 innings giving up 1 hit, no runs and striking like 10 during that stretch.

by egboyz on Dec 13, 2011 11:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

8 2/3 innings

Should never be used as a barometer for a pitcher’s capabilities. Armando Galarraga threw 8 2/3 freaking perfect innings once upon a time.

Hernandez’s FIP/xFIP split suggests he was lucky to allow so few homers, and given how much he enjoys using his fastball in the upper half of the zone, I’m inclined to agree. I wouldn’t say he’s shown the rates to be a closer-level guy in 2012 without some improvement, specifically in his control. Definitely has the potential, though.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually think that

were there no ‘grooming’ things at play, Saito would be the 8th inning guy next year. I think he’s better than Hernandez.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 13, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Are we too hung up on Inn #?

Giving up a 5 run inning in the 7th is just as damning as giving one up in the 8th (mostly, anyways). I’ve always wanted to see a manager send the best reliever out to meet the toughest part of the order during the late innings. Having so many solid arms in the pen just makes me giddy.

PS. I understand that assigning an Inning # is just a way to rate them, for most people.

by Counsellmember on Dec 13, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

more rating than than anything else with the 8th inning statement. I don’t expect Gibby to do anything other than take a traditional line here.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 14, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed 100%

He’s probably more effective when healthy.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 14, 2011 7:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Did he or Didn't he that's the question we

should be asking. He prove that he can be a future closer for this team. I know KT already views him as his future closer and there’s no need to worry if Putz goes down or we trade him. Getting Saito helps alot in terms of resting Putz or Hernandez. As for your FIP and whatever those stats are just meaningless. I don’t and won’t understand how a stat can determine whether you were lucky or not!! Don’t try to persuade me either because I’m just a meat and potato guy. I’m sorry that geeks took over the game of baseball with their excessive stats but really isn’t the basic stats all we need. Hernandez will be a closer for this team or closer for somebody.

by Baseballdad on Dec 13, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

FIP

isn’t meaningless, but even if you use straight ERA or K/BB or WHIP or even saves, Saito has outperformed Hernandez. Don’t get me wrong, I think Hernandez is improving and I like him a lot. I think he can keep making strides. My point is merely to point out how good Saito is.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 14, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

FIP is meaningless. . .

I can’t believe that a stat can determine whether your lucky or unlucky. We have a few geeks come in and throw us these meaningless stats and you become sheep and just follow! Lets see, Hernandez has only 1 yr under his belt and I believe when it all said and done Hernandez will be a whole lot better than Saito. Every year that that I notice is that he gotten better. so I’m anxious for another breakout year.

by Baseballdad on Dec 14, 2011 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Cool it

With the “geeks” crap. Now.

And, for your information, some of us actually research what goes into the numbers before following. Y’know, because some of us enjoy analysis and care about our analysis being accurate. So stop being so condescending.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 14, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

When you are referring to the question

of whether or not a ‘stat’ can determine (interesting word “determine”) someone is lucky or unlucky, that strikes me as analogous to the question of whether there is some kind of order, or randomness in a given set of observations. In other words, a philosophical question. The short answer may be found in the engineering literature, and that is ‘signal detection theory,’ where it may not be so important to ask the relative strength of a signal, but rather whether a signal exists at all.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 15, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

If you don't like sabermetrics, that's your choice

But “I’m sorry that geeks took over the game of baseball with their excessive stats” is not just somewhat ignorant (though you admit this to some extent, and that’s fair), but it’s also insulting to those “geeks” who spent time developing them and making them available for public use.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 14, 2011 8:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Bball dad, you surely believe not all stats are meaningless (I assume AVG, HR, ERA, etc are relevant in the way you perceive players), so what makes FIP in particular and the newer stats in general meaningless? It’s fine to debate the merit of any given stat, but they are certainly not meaningless.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 14, 2011 8:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Stats have their place

their strengths, and their limitations. As long as one recognizes this, and makes accurate appraisals regarding validity of certain stats in certain situations, statistics help the game. Big shock, I know, but that’s how feel I about it.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 15, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree that stats have their place.

I’m not a fan of FIP/xFIP or any variations of FIP. It’s ridiculous to think that a stat can determine whether your lucky or unlucky.

by Baseballdad on Dec 17, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Why would that be ridiculous?

Don’t you agree there are better or worse defenders in the league? Teams that have better or worse collective defenses? Ballparks that are more hitter friendly? Pitchers and hitters who have strings of good or bad luck?

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 17, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Stats don't "determine" anything

I get the objection to the use of the word luck too much. It’s a lazy way to describe why things are happening sometimes.

Where stats like FIP and xFIP have a vaule, in my mind, is they are an INDICATOR that something is amiss. I look towards the extremes, where a guy has a large gap between his FIP, and his ERA, and then try to figure out WHY.

Remember, FIP is simply a stat based on walks, hits, and homeruns allowed. If a guy has a very large gap between his FIP ERA and his regular ERA, (Say more than half a run), it’s very seldom sustainable, in either direction.

So I use it like a red flag to point me in the direction, and let me know when further investigation is needed. Sometimes ERA is a perfectly good measure of what to expect from a pitcher going forward. Sometimes it’s not. It’s really just a matter of trying to figure it out.

If you are curious about these things, you use every tool you can find to get to the bottom of these questions. If you are not curious about it, than sit back, pop another beer, and relax a bit.

The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.

by shoewizard on Dec 17, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

A huge rec for this.

Stats like FIP aren’t meant to be used so simplistically as to say “oh, his FIP is half a run higher than his ERA, he must be lucky!” They’re designed to allow for further investigation.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 17, 2011 11:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Read up on Branch Rickey

After all, it was Mr. Rickey who started the stats revolution back in 1954, when he hired a statistician to take a new look at things and figured out that the stats being used, which were invented in the era of the horse and buggy, we not really the most accurate measures of a players value or talent.

This was presented in a Life Magazine article that year, and the content can still be read at the following link

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/btf/pages/essays/rickey/goodby_to_old_idea.htm

I don’t really expect you to read the article, but the point is esteemed, intelligent, accomplished, revered baseball men have been looking beyond the “traditional stats” to try to find an edge for a very long time. (See also John McGraw, Casey Stengal, Earl Weaver….etc)

Anyway, not quite sure why you are so angry, but it’s never a good thing to revel in ones ignorance, which is what you are doing when you say you don’t understand something and don’t try to explain or persuade you.

Fine……make your statement and move on. But please don’t insult people that make use of modern metrics and not expect some blowback. Because it surely will come.

The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.

by shoewizard on Dec 14, 2011 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I do agree with you

about sending Shaw down. It serves no purpose, because he’s proved that he belong on the 25man roster.

by egboyz on Dec 13, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Spent 88 days on the DL in 11

with a hamstring injury. Definitely adds veteranness to the bullpen.

"The kingdoms of Experience, In the precious wind they rot, While paupers change possessions, Each one wishing for what the other has got, And the princess and the prince, Discuss what's real and what is not, It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden." B. Dylan

by xmet on Dec 12, 2011 7:26 PM EST reply actions  

Yesyesyesyesyesyes!
Love this so much. There’s no doubt that in his two offseasons with AZ KT has transformed the bullpen and starting rotation (although much of the starting rotation transformation was a result of moves not done on his watch).
I’m still concerned about of offensive depth, but this has to be the NL West favorite and maybe one of the top 5 NL teams headed into 2012.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 12, 2011 7:33 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

Yeah,

The fact that there’s no one left in the bullpen from the Byrnes era after just two offseasons is pretty staggering.

Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.

by Zavada's Moustache on Dec 12, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

lulz!

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 12, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

And when you say "after just two offseasons",

KT has been GM less than fifteen months. I believe Demel is the lonly RP still on the forty man roster who pitched in the majors under Byrnes.

by Diamondhacks on Dec 12, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

By the end of the regular season, there was no-one left on the 25-man who’d pitched for Byrnes, so less than a year for that.

"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"

by Jim McLennan on Dec 12, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Opening day roster now looks like

Montero
Goldschmidt
Hill
Drew (?)
Roberts
Parra
Young
Upton

Kennedy
Hudson
Cahill
Collmenter
Miley/Bauer (?)

Breslow
Patterson
Saito
Ziegler
Shaw
Hernandez
Putz

Blanco
Overbay
JohnnyMac
Bloomquist

That’s 24. Who am I missing?

by CaptainCanuck on Dec 12, 2011 7:52 PM EST reply actions  

Blum

Twitter
Mr. Hall, you WILL beat it!

by dbacks25 on Dec 12, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

ah, there we go

the infield could be better but it looks solid.

by CaptainCanuck on Dec 12, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

They might want to consider trading Bloomquist or Macdonald

and adding a 4th outfielder.

"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung

by txzona on Dec 12, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe the Giants still want him?

Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.

by Zavada's Moustache on Dec 12, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

That'd be kind of hilarious

But Bloomquist sadly is the fourth outfielder.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 12, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

it's not going to happen before the season starts

But I hope they consider it soon after it does. Or at least let Eaton/Pollock beat out one of Blum/Bloom/JMac.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 12, 2011 8:46 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

This is awesome

Our backup plan looks great now with Vasquez, Demel, Miley, that rule 5 guy, and maybe even Marshall or Corbin.

by LiamNeeson on Dec 12, 2011 7:54 PM EST reply actions  

Also

Munson, Brewer, Ortega. And, y’know, those Skaggs and Bauer guys.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 12, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I was speaking strictly of the bullpen.

It seems that corbin won’t have much of a shot at the 5th spot so I threw him in there thinking he could be useful in the pen.

by LiamNeeson on Dec 12, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I figured

But the first three seem like quality relief candidates. Ehh, I think Corbin will be kept a starter. Not many people project him as a reliever, mostly a pretty comfortable #4/#5, so why diminish his value when we have so many alternatives?

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 12, 2011 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

YESSS!!!!

first asian D’Back since Byung-Hyun Kim ftw!!!

I hate "Red Sox Nation"

by superwong18 on Dec 12, 2011 7:56 PM EST reply actions  

The more you know

"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung

by txzona on Dec 12, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Have we had a Japanese player before? My mind is blanking.

by eel on Dec 12, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Japanese-born, yes

Steven Randolph was born in Okinawa, and appeared out of the bullpen in 95 games in 2005.

But I’m thinking military kid most likely, so he probably wasn’t “actually” Japanese.

"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"

by Jim McLennan on Dec 12, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Make that 2003-04

"Barry's Puffin has gone red and is hiding under a pirate hat!"

by Jim McLennan on Dec 12, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Fauxpanese

Tomorrow is another day.

by soco on Dec 12, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

anyone know how his velocity has been last year vs 2006-2007?

if there isn’t much significant change- i think its a good move

New England Patriots: 9-3 against the Dolphins, Chargers, Bills, Raiders, Jets (x2), Cowboys, Steelers, Giants, Chiefs, Eagles, and Colts

by freeland1787 on Dec 12, 2011 8:05 PM EST reply actions  

Here you go

2007:
FB: 93.2 mph
SL: 83.2 mph
CU: 77.8 mph

2011:
FB: 90.7 mph
SL: 80.0 mph
CU: 76.1 mph

Twitter
Mr. Hall, you WILL beat it!

by dbacks25 on Dec 12, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

normal drop off it looks like

hopefully that isn’t an issue like w/ galarraga and duke

New England Patriots: 9-3 against the Dolphins, Chargers, Bills, Raiders, Jets (x2), Cowboys, Steelers, Giants, Chiefs, Eagles, and Colts

by freeland1787 on Dec 12, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

not bad.

It’s good that his off-speed pitches dropped along with the FB drop.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 12, 2011 8:52 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Saunders is..........

as good as gone with this move. If we non tender him can we get anything for him? Can we trade him for offensive help?

by DBackFan4 on Dec 12, 2011 8:40 PM EST reply actions  

Nope, not unless they sign him first.

He’s a FA now.

"The kingdoms of Experience, In the precious wind they rot, While paupers change possessions, Each one wishing for what the other has got, And the princess and the prince, Discuss what's real and what is not, It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden." B. Dylan

by xmet on Dec 12, 2011 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

So glad the DBacks went out

and got a LH bat to help balance the lineup

by golfmanthee on Dec 12, 2011 9:25 PM EST reply actions  

Drew, Parra, Montero? Just got Overbay as a bench guy?

Not like we’re super righty-heavy.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 12, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I was joking of course

Pulled up his b-ref page and noticed he bats LH

Good pickup by the DBacks IMO

by golfmanthee on Dec 12, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Totally missed that

I am clearly not up to date on my relief pitcher hitting profiles.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 12, 2011 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe not now

…but Drew’s regular status is somewhat iffy, Montero caught more innings than any catcher in baseball, and Parra is just .756 career ops v rhp. All three are backed up (positionally) by right handed hitters.

by Diamondhacks on Dec 12, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Where would they put that LH bat?

"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung

by txzona on Dec 12, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Luke Scott?

He’s available. LH power off the bench. 4th OF.

He can take Blum’s roster spot.

by Fangdango on Dec 13, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I think this is a STUPID move!

Saito is in his 40’s…he could blow his shoulder or elbow out and then we’d be out a pitcher…

I got sprayed by Ryan Roberts!!!

by Rockkstarr12 on Dec 12, 2011 9:58 PM EST reply actions  

One relief pitcher...

it could happen, but so what?

I got nothin'.

by Bcawz on Dec 12, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

And without Saito

We’d have as many pitchers as we had before signing him in the first place.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 12, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm cautiously

happy about this.

Tomorrow is another day.

by soco on Dec 12, 2011 10:33 PM EST reply actions  

bullpen

is looking quite stacked with no weak points, barring injury of course

by Scottyyy on Dec 12, 2011 11:28 PM EST reply actions  

Indeed.

Our collection of late inning relievers are looking pretty sweet.

The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.

by Stupendous Man on Dec 13, 2011 1:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

This team's bullpen sucked so bad just two years ago...

The 180 degree turn in the quality of our relievers is pretty staggering, really.

The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.

by Stupendous Man on Dec 13, 2011 1:41 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Here's a question for you all

Will we look to trade Putz? I mean, we love him and his pretty much lights out closer stuff but we can get pretty good value right now and great value at mid-season. And if Saito/Hernandez/Shaw look excellent why not? Putz is an injury risk and when his stuff starts to fade, he will start getting crushed because of that downward angle he has.

"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd

by blank_38 on Dec 13, 2011 2:08 AM EST reply actions  

I'd personally love to,

But I doubt it will happen this year. Putz was fantastic last year and probably hasn’t declined too much since then. Plus, we now have the bullpen depth to weather an injury from Putz. Overall, I suspect the PR hit that would come from trading a closer will be enough to persuade KT and co. to hold off.

Ian, Daniel, Josh, and two Trevors: It's not a Christian rock group.

by Zavada's Moustache on Dec 13, 2011 2:38 AM EST up reply actions  

I think it'd be a great idea

But, no, we almost certainly won’t. Plus, it’d be kind of weird to go out and sign another reliever right after dealing Putz, which we almost certainly would. Plus, I see no way that trading Putz to sign someone like, for instance, Micah Owings is anything other than a PR train wreck. If Hernandez struggles for even an instant early in the year, the team would get torn apart in the media. For a team trying to build a generation of young fans in the community, that kind of avoidable public humiliation is something to avoid.

Although I’m curious as to why downward plane would ever be bad? If he loses some velocity, it would likely add further sink (longer time for gravity to do its thang), and with downward plane, that’ll help keep balls on the ground to compensate for the decrease in K’s. Big concern for me is pretty much just health.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Have you noticed that he throws a lot of ball sup in the zone, especially to lefties?

He gets away with it because he throws pretty hard but when his velocity goes down he’ll see more of those pitches get crushed. The sink is a two edged sword. Longer time for gravity to do its thing but also more time for batters to pick up the spin on the ball and that’s just bad news especially with how good hitters now these days.

I do understand the PR thing though and I never really thought about that. Especially if they blow a bunch of close games.

"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd

by blank_38 on Dec 13, 2011 5:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Well

If you can do it properly…

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really worried about the high in the zone stuff

Because he’s shown that he has impeccable control (as opposed to, say, Hernandez). Also, as far as the giving hitters more time to read the ball thingy, that just makes his splitter that much more important. Same spin, a ton more dive, still plenty of strikeout potential.

It’s not that he probably won’t see some attrition, but I don’t see any reason to suggest he’ll collapse entirely without a major lapse in control or command.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

No - win now

The trade of Parker for Cahilll tells me the FO is trying to win this year. If that is the philosophy, trading Putz makes no sense, IMO.

by Craig from Az on Dec 13, 2011 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

yep

"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung

by txzona on Dec 13, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

Especially with two older guys in the 7-9 inning roles. If only one of Putz/Hernandez/Saito gets hurt, we’re still in good shape. If we were to trade away Putz, then we’re a bit exposed with one injury.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 13, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe they should try Hernandez in the rotation during spring training.

no?

Yea, it’s probably all of this reliever to starter talk that’s getting to me.

"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung

by txzona on Dec 13, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

No chance IMO

1) Hernandez was pretty awful as a starter in 2010.
2) We already are going to be stacked with starters by 2014, why add Hernandez to the rotation just to move him back to the bullpen around that time once he finally adjusts to it?
3) Would strain the ’pen as he goes through his “getting used to not throwing 25 pitches in an inning and being ok” phase.
4) Joba Chamberlain

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

The organization wants him to be the closer in 2013. this year is his year to build on 2011, and prepare himself to be the closer in 2013.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 13, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless I'm missing someone

the only guys in the bullpen for 2012 who had an ERA over 3.00 last year are Breslow and Hernandez and Breslow’s was a career high and Hernandez is young and improving.

I’m thinking the DBacks just locked up a monster bullpen. . . .

by golfmanthee on Dec 13, 2011 7:42 AM EST reply actions  

yes

AZ relievers in 2012
Career xFIP 2011 xFIP
Putz 3.10 3.37
Hernandez 4.67 3.66
Saito 3.20 3.74
Shaw 3.27 3.27
Ziegler 3.72 3.04
Patterson 4.24 4.24
Breslow 4.38 4.40

That’s a darned good bullpen. Note that Hernandez numbers are dramatically impacted by his (failed) attempt as a starter.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 13, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Also note

That in spite of his peripherals, Saito has never had a season with an ERA above 3.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

BTW somebody mentioned that the bullpen was entirely new

from 2 years ago. It goes beyond that. The entire pitching staff has turned over from 2009. Not a single guy left from that season

by golfmanthee on Dec 13, 2011 7:45 AM EST reply actions  

And perhaps even more impressive

Assuming Saunders doesn’t come back, of the 28 pitchers who worked for Arizona in 2010, only two (Hudson and Kennedy) are likely to be on the Opening Day roster next season, depending on who fills the fifth rotation spot.

"There's one rule by which I generally run my life:
What would Mothra do?"

by Jim McLennan on Dec 13, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Some old relievers

http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/AWhpk

The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.

by shoewizard on Dec 13, 2011 7:53 AM EST reply actions  

Hmmm

Two HOF relievers, a knuckleballer, a guy from 1963, and Saito. Hard to know what to make of that list.

by Craig from Az on Dec 13, 2011 9:34 AM EST up reply actions  

wow

that’s an impressive list. there’s a reason Saito is still around.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 13, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Not many guys make it that far

Saito’s inclusion seems to support the hypothesis that Japanese pitchers, for one reason or another, can be effective in relief for far longer than their American counterparts.

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope so

Because the last time a guy 42 or older had 40 or more innings of relief with a positive WAR was Jeff Fasero and Terry Mulholland in 2005, and they had exactly 0.1 WAR to get in the plus column. :)

The track record of relievers that old sucks. Check out the updated report

http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/A0dNN

The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.

by shoewizard on Dec 13, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions  

By the way.......Doug Jones !!

How did he do that at age 42-43 ??

Either he was doctoring the ball, or doctoring himself, or both I presume.

The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.

by shoewizard on Dec 13, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Bullpen management

One thing worth noting is that with the Saito addition it ought to mean that Gibby can now use Shaw more flexibly (instead of just in the 7th) which ought to mean that can actually manage Ziegler properly (as a ROOGY) and not throw him out there to the wolves as he did last year too often. Breslow allows the same flexibility for Patterson. When healthy (and managed appropriately), this bullpen ought to be able to maximize the strength of all of the contributors. It should be a lot of fun to watch.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 13, 2011 11:51 AM EST reply actions  

you are assuming though

that it was necessity that dictated throwing Ziegler to the wolves

:(

by blue bulldog on Dec 13, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

true enough

… although now any excuses Gibby had for that garbage have been taken away.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 13, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps my favorite part of this

Is Ziegler becomes a strict ROOGY. Or at least I really hope he does…

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Anyone have a pipeline to Gibby?

If so, and if you only have one piece of advice to pass on to him for 2012, please let this be it.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 13, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

hmmm

I’d like to discuss the concepts of OBP and leadoff hitter

by Counsellmember on Dec 13, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

True enough, although I think we’d both agree lineup configuration has only a very marginal impact on production while ignoring pitching splits can have a pretty dramatic impact.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 14, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Bargain

A steal.

Where have you gone, Greg Colbrunn?

by SenSurround on Dec 13, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Gloroius!

Founder and Chairman of the Send Dan Some Pizzeria Bianco Commission (SDSPBC). SDSPBC is a totally, definitely for-profit organization.

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 13, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Ka-ching!

Great deal. How much money does that leave us? Anyone want Beltran as a bench bat?

by Counsellmember on Dec 13, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

holy cow

Honestly, I wouldn’t have had a problem with $4M. Ridiculously good contract.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 13, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

i actually think

$4MM would have been somewhat of an overpay given his injury risk

but yeah, this is right around where i thought we could get Saito at.

our bullpen next year, and potentially our rotation after july, just makes me giddy too

by blue bulldog on Dec 13, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah...

… that was kind of my point. I wouldn’t have been thrilled with $4M, but I would have understood why we did it. I was assuming something under that… under $2M is a steal.

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting." Yogi Berra

by njjohn on Dec 14, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

And

there goes any risk! If we can’t eat that if need be, we are in bigger trouble than just losing a member of the bullpen

Have you been good this year? I hope so, because Gibby. Is. Watching.

by imstillhungry95 on Dec 14, 2011 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

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