Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Sob City: Clippers Swept By Spurs

Ten Years On: What If The D-backs Had Faced The Mariners?

Manager Lou Piniella and the Seattle Mariners look on from the dugout during game five of the American League Championship Series against the New York Yankees, on October 22, 2001 at Yankee Stadium (Photo by Al Bello/Getty Images)


Even the homerest of homer fans would probably admit that the 2001 Diamondbacks were not the best team in the majors that season. While by no means a bad team - those very rarely make the post-season - they were more the playoff team that got hot at the right spot. Of the teams that made it, only Cleveland (91) and Atlanta (88) had fewer regular season wins than Arizona's 92; that was actually fewer victories than the NL wild-card winner that year. Oakland won 102 games, but got Jeter'd in the first round and the Yankees would then take out the Mariners. Seattle won 116 games that year; a number never surpassed in the majors and 11 more than anyone has managed since.

So what might have happened if we had faced them in the World Series, rather than the Yankees?

Star-divide

How did the Mariners win that many? A perfect storm of circumstance. First, the best ERA in the league. They didn't have stellar starters like Randy and Curt, posting a sub-three ERA; Freddy Garcia led them with a 3.05 ERA, and Jamie Moyer next at 3.43. But they were very solid, with a 3.77 ERA; that was eleven points better than Arizona, and our starters did not face the DH. It was the bullpen where Seattle were stellar. Kazuhiro Sasaki saved 45 games, and Arthur Rhodes had a 1.72 ERA, matching Micah Owings by going 8-0. At the height of steroids, their relievers had a 3.04 ERA, more than a run better than league average (4.12) and well above the D-backs' 3.88.

On offense, the Mariners were just as good, with an OPS+ of 117, six points better than the second-placed Indians. Five of their regular starters had an OPS+ of above 120; Edgar Martinez (163) with his .966 OPS led the way, and he was joined by Bret Boone (153), John Olerud (136), Ichiro (126) and Mike Cameron (123); for Arizona, only Gonzo was at that level. Their .288 average was the best in the league, and Seattle were even better in the clutch, hitting .295 with runners in scoring position. The result was 5.72 runs per game - just three other teams in the American Leavgue even reaching an average of five.

When you outscore your opponents by almost two runs per game (5.72 to 3.87), you're going to win a lot of contests, but the projected Pythagorean record for the Mariners was "only" 109-53 - though even that would still be a number only matched by the 1998 Yankees during the past fifty seasons. The final piece in the jigsaw is that Seattle outperformed that expectation by seven games, thanks mostly to having the best record in the majors in one run games. The Mariners were 26-12 in those, probably in part to the stellar bullpen mentioned earlier. The team were tied after six innings on 29 occasions, and went 21-8 in those contests.

However, as the cliche goes, every team starts the post-season at 0-0. Seattle did get past Cleveland, though that victory required them to win two elimination games, and they were outscored 26-16 over the five games. The ALCS against the Yankees was the Mariners'  Waterloo (or Leyte Gulf, if you want a more naval metaphor), with New York holding their offense to a .211 average and only 4.4 runs per game, as the Yankees prevailed in five. But what might have happened had they reached the World Series against the Diamondbacks?

As with torpedosneak's ongoing series, I'll be using the WhatIfSports.com SimMatchUp engine, with the D-backs having home-field advantage for two games, before the series shifts to Seattle. I've presumed the Mariners are fully rested, and went with a rotation of Garcia, Moyer, Aaron Sele and Paul Abbott. There's no doubt that Arizona's 1-2 punch give them an edge in the pitching match-ups there - but will this be enough to overcome Seattle's impressive offense?

SEATTLE
1. Ichiro Suzuki LF
2. John Olerud 1B
3. Bret Boone 2B
4. Mike Cameron CF
5. Mark Mclemore RF
6. David Bell 3B
7. Dan Wilson C
8. Carlos Guillen SS
ARIZONA
1. Tony Womack SS
2. Jay Bell 2B
3. Luis Gonzalez LF
4. Matt Williams 3B
5. Mark Grace 1B
6. Reggie Sanders RF
7. Steve Finley CF
8. Damian Miller C

Game 1. Freddie Garcia vs. Curt Schilling. Mariners 1, Diamondbacks 4 - BOXSCORE
Schilling was imperious, throwing a complete game and striking out 14 Mariners, as the D-backs struck first at BOB. He scattered nine hits but walked none, and the only damage allowed was in the top of the third when an Olerud single drove in Ichiro, who had legged out an infield hit and stolen second. The lead was short lived, as Luis Gonzalez had a two-run single in the bottom half, with RBI singles by Matt Williams and Mark Grace completing the scoring in the fifth. Arizona took advantage of Garcia's wildness - he walked seven - and came through in the clutch, while Seattle were held to one hit with runners in scoring position.

Game 2. Jamie Moyer vs. Randy Johnson. Mariners 1, Diamondbacks 4 - BOXSCORE
Same again? Not quite, but the end result was. The Big Unit left after eight innings, having held Seattle to four hits, with a dozen strikeouts. Jay Bell had a two-run homer in the third to give Arizona the lead for good, with Williams adding an RBI single in the fifth, and Damian Miller homering in the sixth. Johnson took a shutout into the ninth, before allowing his fourth walk and an RBI double to Mark McLemore, who had two of Seattle's four hits. With the tying run on deck, Arizona summoned Byung-Hyun Kim who quelled any thoughts of drama, retiring the next three batters to give the D-backs a 2-0 lead as they head for the NorthWest.

Game 3: Brian Anderson vs. Aaron Sele. Diamondbacks 5, Mariners 7 - BOXSCORE
Seattle got on the board, tagging Anders for six runs in 4.2 innings, using the long-ball with homers off him by Bell, Boone and Cameron, the last two going yard back-to-back in the bottom of the fourth. That broke a 2-2 tie, Arizona having leveled things on a two-run single by Grace. The Mariners scored three two-out runs in the fifth, to make the lead 7-2, although the D-backs fought back with three of their own in the seventh. Damian Miller K'd with the tying run on base there, and also made the final out in the ninth, also with two men aboard. AZ still leads 2-1.

Game 4: Robert Ellis vs. Paul Abbott. Diamondbacks 5, Mariners 10 - BOXSCORE
The home team showed why their offense was the best in the American League, pounding out 16 hits and chasing Ellis before the end of the first - Miguel Batista wasn't listed as a starter, but did work two scoreless innings in relief. Olerud and McLemore each had a trio of hits, with the latter driving in four runs, as Seattle took an 8-2 lead by the end of the second inning, and cruised to victory from there. Abbott got the W, allowing four earned runs in 5.2 innings, with Finley going 2-for-4 with three driven in, as the series got locked up at two.

Game 5: Curt Schilling vs. Freddie Garcia. Diamondbacks 1, Mariners 3 - BOXSCORE
Schilling pitched his second complete game of the World Series, but this time, came out on the losing end. Back-to-back long balls from Martnez and Olerud in the first gave Seattle a lead they would never relinquish, though Schilling struck out another 11. Olerud clubbed a second homer in the fifth, and Garcia went the distance for the Mariners, the Diamondbacks managing only five hits, two of them by Miller, with Finley's RBI single in the second the only score for the visitors. The series returns to Arizona, with Seattle now 3-2 up.

Game 6: Jamie Moyer vs. Randy Johnson. Mariners 6, Diamondbacks 2 - BOXSCORE
There would be no Game 7 heroic in this simulation. Indeed, there would be no Game 7 at all, as the D-backs bullpen melted down, after Johnson had held things together, leaving after seven with the score tied at two. Up until then, here's the line which stood out:
M.Grace bloops one that ricochets into the rightfield corner that goes for a solo, inside-the-park homerun.
Yeah. About that... Well, it is just a simulation... In the 8th, the first three Mariners reached, off Greg Swindell and Bret Prinz, Cameron's single giving Seattle the lead. Boone's three-run shot off Troy Brohawn in the ninth was merely icing, as the Mariners won their first-ever World Series. Shame it's a virtual one. Or not, from our perspective.

These are just one-off games, and anything can happen - Gracey hitting an inside-the-parker pretty much proves that! So please don't treat this as any kind of definitive answer as to how the series might have played out. In particular, maybe it would have been different if Arizona had started Schilling on short rest in Game 4, as they did against the Yankees. Of course, we'll never know the answer. And that's half the fun.

Comment 38 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

IIRC

Didn’t we play them in interleague that year, and they swept us?

Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
"I'm like if it fits in the oven, play ball." - soco
Promised Colin Cowgill fifteen sandwiches on 7/6/2011

by Clefo on Oct 29, 2011 11:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes and no

Yes, we played them in Seattle, but we won the middle game 5-3. However, they missed both Johnson and Schilling that series.

"We have to resist it. Do whatever you have to. Cross your fingers. Say a prayer. Think of a basket of kittens. But do not give in to the fear..."

by Jim McLennan on Oct 29, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would have been interesting

to see what would have happend in real life if the best team really had gotten to the World Series, but I’m okay with what happend.

Oh where oh where have my Dbacks gone? Oh where oh where could they be!

by imstillhungry95 on Oct 29, 2011 11:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I have a problem with the assertion

that the Mariners were the best team.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Oct 29, 2011 11:21 PM EDT reply actions  

On what grounds?

"We have to resist it. Do whatever you have to. Cross your fingers. Say a prayer. Think of a basket of kittens. But do not give in to the fear..."

by Jim McLennan on Oct 30, 2011 12:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Wins aren't everything

Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
"I'm like if it fits in the oven, play ball." - soco
Promised Colin Cowgill fifteen sandwiches on 7/6/2011

by Clefo on Oct 30, 2011 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

No

They’re the only thing.
</Lombardi’d> [or Sanders’d

"We have to resist it. Do whatever you have to. Cross your fingers. Say a prayer. Think of a basket of kittens. But do not give in to the fear..."

by Jim McLennan on Oct 30, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

The question is settled by tournament play

the sting of battle, et cetera.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Oct 30, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

??

??

Oh where oh where have my Dbacks gone? Oh where oh where could they be!

by imstillhungry95 on Oct 30, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can think of

116 reasons why they were.

What's one more comeback, anyway?

by Zavada's Moustache on Oct 30, 2011 5:03 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

They were a paper tiger

period. How many subsequent World Series did the Mariners win after the debacle? Oh, zero…

Great teams will win it all sooner or later because in addition to talent, they character and drive. The Mariners didn’t have those other dimensions.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Oct 30, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great teams will win it all sooner or later because in addition to talent, they character and drive. The Mariners didn’t have those other dimensions.

That’s one way of looking at it. Or, we can say that “great” teams have their title imposed retroactively after they win a World Series. It’s human nature to say that if a team beats an opponent deemed to be superior, they must have more “character and drive.” On the other hand, typically it’s just because they weren’t as good for a short series of games.

As far as your other point, I don’t think anyone would argue that the Mariners had a great core that year. They had a relatively old team even then, and had a lot of position players who had career years that year. My point is, for 162 games the ‘01 Mariners were one of the best teams to ever play baseball, and that shouldn’t be overlooked just because they looked bad for 5 games at the end.

And re: your Agincourt metaphor, let’s just say that the French lost because Charles d’Albret handled his army about as efficiently as Tony LaRussa handled his bullpen in Game 5…

What's one more comeback, anyway?

by Zavada's Moustache on Oct 30, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Charles d'Albret reference

made my nerdy day

This is my signature.. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My signature is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My signature, without me, is useless. Without my signature, I am useless...

by Torpedosneak on Oct 31, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Think of it this way...

The French had a 6 to 1 advantage going up against Henry V in their playoff at Agincourt, and were playing on their home field, but clearly from the results, Henry’s team proved to be the better.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Oct 30, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course, by this analogy

The French army had already beaten every other army they faced. Because that’s what the Mariners had done: they had a winning record against every single team they faced that year. They’d beaten everyone. That their offense deserted them for a week does not, in any way, negate the significance of what they did over six months.

They were the best team in the majors during 2001.

"We have to resist it. Do whatever you have to. Cross your fingers. Say a prayer. Think of a basket of kittens. But do not give in to the fear..."

by Jim McLennan on Oct 30, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

The best team in the majors in 2001

won the World Series in seven games.

Is it mid-February yet?

by NASCARbernet on Oct 30, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

They had Brett Boone, we had Gonzo

by Augdogs on Oct 30, 2011 11:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Whatever

Who wasn’t on steroids…. Kendrick made the initial connection, not me.

by Augdogs on Oct 30, 2011 9:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Um, well, there was...

No, he wasn’t. Oh I know! Nevermind, he was too… think, think. think think. Yeah I can’t think of anyone right off the top of my head who wasn’t

Oh where oh where have my Dbacks gone? Oh where oh where could they be!

by imstillhungry95 on Oct 30, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd be willing to wager

That Craig Counsell was never on steroids. Or if he was, he needed to get some better steroids.

What's one more comeback, anyway?

by Zavada's Moustache on Oct 30, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok

my point was that the huge majority was. There were of course some who weren’t

Oh where oh where have my Dbacks gone? Oh where oh where could they be!

by imstillhungry95 on Oct 30, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pretty sure

Steroids enhance individual performance, not win totals…

What's one more comeback, anyway?

by Zavada's Moustache on Oct 31, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well

If enough people on a team were enhancing their individual performances, wouldn’t that translate to more wins?

Oh where oh where have my Dbacks gone? Oh where oh where could they be!

by imstillhungry95 on Oct 31, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure, but

Not if other teams were using steroids too, which they obviously were in 2001.

What's one more comeback, anyway?

by Zavada's Moustache on Oct 31, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Assuming that use was equally distributed across all teams,

which was probably not the case.

"The kingdoms of Experience, In the precious wind they rot, While paupers change possessions, Each one wishing for what the other has got, And the princess and the prince, Discuss what's real and what is not, It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden." B. Dylan

by xmet on Oct 31, 2011 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lets make that assumption anyway

And not vote anyone into the hall of fame for the next few years except David Eckstein

Founder of the 'Foundation for the Advancement of Clefoing' a 501C3
"I'm like if it fits in the oven, play ball." - soco
Promised Colin Cowgill fifteen sandwiches on 7/6/2011

by Clefo on Oct 31, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Craig Counsell?

"The kingdoms of Experience, In the precious wind they rot, While paupers change possessions, Each one wishing for what the other has got, And the princess and the prince, Discuss what's real and what is not, It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden." B. Dylan

by xmet on Nov 1, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

At the time I felt that

the DBacks benefited the most from the post-9/11 week off. Going into September, they looked like a tired, old team. The stats may not support me on this, but when play restarted, the DBacks seemed to be a better team, which fortunately carried over to the post season.

Riding the Gibbytrain since 2011!

by TylerO on Oct 30, 2011 2:58 AM EDT reply actions  

Going to school in Washington,

It’s clear that the community still feels very connected to that ‘01 team. They had a ten-year anniversary that might have been bigger than what the Dbacks did. It’s what you have to do when you’ve never made a World Series, I suppose.

What's one more comeback, anyway?

by Zavada's Moustache on Oct 30, 2011 5:02 AM EDT reply actions  

2001 was a huge year for Ichiro,

What with the ROY and MVP awards and all. It would have been interesting to see how he might have performed on the biggest stage of all.

No regrets about how anything played out, though. The first Diamonbacks title was cool enough, but bringing down the Yankee dynasty made it that much better.

The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.

by Stupendous Man on Oct 30, 2011 9:35 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

35-40 innings of Curt and Randy

At the absolute peak of their powers was an equalizer good enough to beat any team in a 7 game series. Of course anything, (except a Gracie inside the parker….LOL) is possible.

But they were not to be denied that year.

The worst major leaguer is better at baseball than I'll ever be at anything I ever do in my life.

by shoewizard on Oct 30, 2011 9:39 AM EDT reply actions  

They lost in my Tournament too

and handily at that. I think Whatifsports.com hates the 2001 Diamondbacks

This is my signature.. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My signature is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My signature, without me, is useless. Without my signature, I am useless...

by Torpedosneak on Oct 31, 2011 8:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the AZ SnakePit, the SB Nation blog about the Arizona Diamondbacks. "When you think about the past all the time, when you get to the present day you are thinking about the past so it becomes your future again." -- Kirk Gibson.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Jon-stewart-painting_small
"Leading the League in Love"

Recent FanPosts

Me___drums_small
OT: The (Literally) Thankless Job of a Hitting Coach
Hl_small
Recommendations
Small
In which I dispense some amateurish medical advice to Trevor Bauer
Basshat3_small
SNAKEPITFEST TUCSON EDITION....?
Small
My thoughts on Justin Upton
Small
Thoughts on the D-Backs Season So Far
200234_1969418916472_1272934884_2352102_4759893_n_small
D'Hall E-mailed me back!
Small
Hey Gibson ... heard of bunts?
227177_10150583458835315_663770314_18513970_7717573_n_small
Diamondbacks 1, Mets 3: R.A Dickey's Knuckle Sandwich KO

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Manager

Lucha_small Jim McLennan

Bench coaches

Madmen_icon_small snakecharmer

My-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-brony-not-the-element-of-efficiency_small kishi

Scarlett_small soco

Me___drums_small Dan Strittmatter

Players

Wailord_by_xous54_small Wailord

Wolfwood_small BattleMoses

Avogadro_small Zavada's Moustache

Basshat3_small Clefo