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The 2010 Diamondbacks and their strikeouts. Do they "matter"?

"It's definitely something that needs to be addressed. Whether I retain this position or someone else is sitting here in the not-too-distant future, I would tell you it's a real issue."
    -- Jerry Di Poto

"Good things happen when you put the ball in play.". I've lost count of the number of times I've heard that sentence this season, usually from the lips of Mark Grace - either sarcastically, as a Diamondbacks strikes out with a man on third and less than two outs, or positively, when an opposing fielder boots a ball and we reach base. Last night, Arizona set the record for most strikeouts ever by a major-league team, passing the mark of 1,399 set by the Milwaukee Brewers in 2001 - they are also the first team to have five men post 125 K's or more in a single season.

It's obviously easy to link those "unproductive outs" to the team's overall struggles this season. But is there factual evidence to support the conclusion? Do strikeouts matter, in the sense that they lead a team to score less runs? After the jump, we'll take a look at this, and Arizona's place in history. Get a cup of coffee first, it's quite long. And maybe a sandwich.

Star-divide

With 11 games left, Arizona has 1,403 strikeouts - at current pace, they wouldn't just be the first team to crack fourteen hundred, they'd be the first ever to reach fifteen hundred, being on pace for 1,505. Their nearest rival in the National League is currently the Marlins, who are 141 behind, more than five full games of nothing but whiff. It will mark a second consecutive season at the top for us; we also led the league in 2009, racking up 1,298, and were behind only Florida in 2008. It's interesting to note that even the new arrivals, Kelly Johnson and Adam LaRoche, have set new career highs in their first season with the team.

However, a couple of counterpoints. In 2004, when the team lost 111 games, the Diamondbacks struck out 1,022 times - below average, and only 11th in the NL. And the leading strikeout team in the American League right now are Tampa Bay, who are 81 ahead of their nearest rival, yet still look set to be playoff-bound. It looks like manager Kirk Gibson was right when he said last night, "If we can strike out that many times and be in first place, nobody would care." [Hat-tip to 'charmer for the preceding couple of paragraphs]

But do they matter? On the most basic level, it seems to make sense they would. After all, you can't get a hit without putting the ball into play, and that also puts pressure on the defense, forcing them to get the out. The Diamondbacks have about 300 strikeouts more than the average National League team this season: if they were at the average, and had put the ball in play those three hundred times, they would probably have got about ninety more hits and 45 or so additional runs. That would be good for about five extra wins this year, certainly worth having. However, "Good things happen when you put the ball in play," is an over-simplification.

For first of, actually, no, good things don't: happen - or at least, far from always. Most of the time - about 70% of the time - a ball in play still results in an out. Even allowing for home-runs, which are not counted as "in play", the majority of cases a ball gets put in in play, it will lead to the same result as a strikeout. Indeed, some pretty bad things can happen as a result. We never hear that statement after Justin Upton grounds into a twin killing. And 119 times this year, the Diamondbacks have put the ball in play and given up two outs as a result, more than a straightforward K would have caused. This needs to be taken into account as well.

Let's start at the broadest of levels. The chart below is for all teams in the 2010 National League, and plots the percentage of plate appearances ending in a strikeout against runs scored per game.

  2010kr_medium

Can you see a pattern there? I can't, unless "amorphous blob" counts. The Diamondbacks have, far and away the highest strikeout rate, yet are just about in the middle of what matters - runs scored. Meanwhile, the Astros have one of the lowest K-rates in the league, and have outscored only the Pirates. All told, the correlation between strikeout rate and runs per game in the NL this year is 0.016. In other words: there isn't one. For comparison, the correlation between other factors and runs per game was: BB rate (0.613); HR rate (0.748); GIDP rate (-0.180); BA (0.891); OBP (0.942); SLG (0.895); OPS (0.948). Strikeouts just don't matter. Getting on-base - that is what counts.

This is something we looked at in a previous article on the 'Pit: Of unproductive outs - and is a walk as good as a hit for the Diamondbacks? There, we found that when the team walks zero or one time, they won only 32.5% of games; when they walked six or more times, the win percentage shot up to 71.4% However, I want to take a slightly different tack here, breaking things down to an individual game, and looking more into whether strikeouts are linked to our overall production of runs per inning. Here's a chart plotting K/9 against Runs/9 for the Diamondbacks  this year - that way, it takes into account extra-inning games, and home wins where we only bat eight times.

2010kr2_medium

Well, it clearly shows, when the Diamondbacks strike out more, we score less runs. I think if you squint really hard, you can also see a sailboat in there. Sarcasm aside, seems we are dealing with selective memory. If the team fans a dozen times and only scores once, the mind draws a line between those two, and thinks the former caused the latter. However, if we strike out 13 times and still score 11 runs [as we did on May 15], or a season-high 16 times while scoring seven [June 10, both in nine-inning games], the mind quietly forgets to make a note of it, being too busy dancing the body happily around the living-room and making "Wooo!" noises. Tho' maybe that's just me.

You want the numbers? Broken down on a per-game basis, the correlation between K/9 and R/9 for Arizona this year is -0.122. That's not completely insignificant, but is pretty close to it [0.10 is usually the cutoff line there]. Number of hits per nine innings have a correlation to runs scored of 0.820 [with home-runs in particular at 0.625] and walks/9 are at 0.379. Once again, getting bases on balls are a much bigger factor in offensive production, than not taking your bat back to the dugout with you.

There is a slight correlation between the number of strikeouts and the result. In wins, the D-backs fan at an 8.65 rate. In losses, at 9.90. However, if you look at the starters who have whiffed most Arizona batters in a game, you'll find nothing but above-average pitchers. There's last year's NL Cy Young #1 and #2 (Tim Lincecum and Chris Carpenter), front-runners for this year's awards (David Price, Mat Latos), etc. None of them have an ERA+ this year below 105. I think that's why we went 2-10 in those dozen contests: not "because" of the strikeouts, but because we were facing good to great opposing pitchers, and they do tend to fan more batters.

"If you have Mark Reynolds with 200 strikeouts, and given that the average hitter would strike out 100 times, Reynolds' strikeouts cost one run. I know it doesn't 'feel' like it, and I know it's incredibly frustrating to see a hitter strike out in clutch situations, since fans predominantly simply want the batter to put the damn bat on the damn ball. But anyone who sits down and works it out has always come to a very similar conclusion."
  -- Tom Tango
Event Run Value
Single 0.475
Double 0.776
Triple 1.070
Home Run 1.397
Non-Int BB 0.323
HBP 0.352
Out (non-K) -0.299
Strikeout -0.301
 

There has been analysis done on the specific value of events in a game, based on what effect they have on the runs scored during the rest of the inning. Obviously, it depends on the number of outs and also the number and position of runners on the bases, but based on analyzing a huge amount of data over the course of multiple seasons, at left are the run values (taken from Tango's The Book) for the results of various plate appearances. Notice that non-K outs and strikeouts are almost identical, with just two-thousandths of a run separating their value.

You have to read the comments on the article linked above to see the passionately-held misconceptions that are prevalent concerning strikeouts, e.g "You can look at all the obscure stats you want to make Reynolds look good... But the guy is batting .205 and striking out 220 times. That is simply ridiculous and not acceptable for a major league player." Contrast that with Tango's comment: "Reynolds' strikeouts cost one run." I'm going to repeat that, in bold: Reynolds' strikeouts cost one run. The all-time single-season K champion, the only man to have struck out 200 times in a season, who has done it three times... And it cost the Diamondbacks ONE RUN this year.

What has gone unnoticed with Reynolds, is he has already set a career-high in walks. His BB rate has increased again: from 8.9% in his debut year of 2007, it has gone up to 10.4%, 11.5% and, this season, 13.7%, compared to an average of 8.7%. As a result, his on-base percentage is within a dozen points of his career average, with it better than 2008, when his strikeout rate was lower i.e. he was putting more balls into play. As noted above, getting on base is far, far more connected to scoring runs than the strikeout. I'm far more concerned with the way Reynolds' line-drive % has slumped this year, dropping from 20% to 13%. That is "a real issue", I tend to think.

Now, this isn't to say that there are no times where a strikeout is particularly damaging. The most obvious case is when there's a runner on third and less than two outs. You want to get that man home, and a strikeout renders it all but impossible. However, if we look at the stats for that situation, Arizona is... The best-hitting team in the league. We bat .361, with an OPS over 1.000. And the strikeouts? The National League average is that hitters whiff 16.8% of such plate-appearances; the Diamondbacks are all the way up at, er, 17.1%. Over the course of almost the entire season now, we have 0.7 strikeouts more than average, in the situation when it perhaps matters most.

More generally, we do lead the league in strikeouts with runners in scoring position, though it's a good deal closer - the Marlins are ten behind. To counter that, however, our overall production - 0.34 runs per plate-appearance with RISP - is right in line with the league average of 0.33 runs. That's because the Diamondbacks' on-base percentage in these situations is .360, ranking them seventh in the NL. Again, what matters is reaching the bag at first.

In summary, the problem, if there is one, with the Diamondbacks' offense is not strikeouts. It's just too many outs in general, and I'm a little disturbed to hear our ex-GM claim otherwise. If the strikeouts go down, but (as is likely) are largely replaced by other outs, and reduce the number of home-runs Arizona hits, the odds are that it will have a negative impact on the runs per game we score. Not making outs, by whatever means, is far more crucial for our hitters, than whether those outs happen to occur through the air, on the ground or in the catcher's mitt.

Though it is kinda cool to be part of the most fascist baseball team of all time... We should be wearing those spiffy black uniforms more often. :-)

[Some stats used are through the end of Monday]

Comment 60 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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Odd...

a post with more recs than comments.
Anyways, we’re going to trade one or two hitters, because we strikeout so much… according to Olney.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/09/olney-on-dbacks-hinch-martin-werth.html

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 41

by Jdub220 on Sep 22, 2010 2:41 PM EDT reply actions  

i just don't see this happening

it’s way too early to speculate about towers trading away position players, and the fact is we’d probably have to sell low on mark reynolds who’s at least a 3 WAR player. i think i’d be seriously pissed if we traded reynolds away for a bullpen arm.

by blue bulldog on Sep 22, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

But...

We are in dire need of bullpen help so I could EASILY see him trading away Reynolds for this reason! ALso, if you think about it, that would help slim down the strikeout ratio

"In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back." ~Charles M Schulz

by Rockkstarr12 on Sep 22, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

But

The strikeout ratio isn’t the problem…

Wear your own fur.

by Marc Fournier on Sep 22, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

It isn't?

Then how come we now hold the record that the Brewers previously owned?

"In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back." ~Charles M Schulz

by Rockkstarr12 on Sep 22, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate to ask

but did you read the article?

“In summary, the problem, if there is one, with the Diamondbacks’ offense is not strikeouts.”

I got nothin'.

by Bcawz on Sep 22, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I did

But everyone has questioned the strikeouts lately. I would think that would be one area that drastically needs improvement.

"In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back." ~Charles M Schulz

by Rockkstarr12 on Sep 22, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

But to me this article does a pretty good job of disputing the horror of strikeouts.

I got nothin'.

by Bcawz on Sep 22, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now it's up to the team

To eliminate the horror of strikeouts

"In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back." ~Charles M Schulz

by Rockkstarr12 on Sep 22, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem being

Will that also eliminate the joy of home-runs?

"It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand." -- Brian Stimpson

by Jim McLennan on Sep 22, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

It shouldn't

Homeruns we need…players racking up their KKKKKKK’s (unless they are a PITCHER), we don’t need

"In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back." ~Charles M Schulz

by Rockkstarr12 on Sep 22, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

So

“I reject your reality and substitute my own” basically? I mean the numbers are there….

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Sep 22, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

...

I should have a mfin theme song.

by emilylovesthedbacks on Sep 22, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

See

now I just cant hang out in this thread any longer.

Thanks for making me go do some actual work.

I got nothin'.

by Bcawz on Sep 22, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aww i'm sorry

:(

I should have a mfin theme song.

by emilylovesthedbacks on Sep 22, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay

enough work. I am back.

I got nothin'.

by Bcawz on Sep 22, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think this .gif needs to go in the AZ Snakepit Comment Hall of Fame.

"I'm not great at farewells, so uh... that'll do, pig."
"That's the worst goodbye I've ever heard. And you stole it from a movie."

by kishi on Sep 22, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

at least in the situation

where there is a runner on third and fewer than two outs, striking out less does not seem to affect OPS

by blue bulldog on Sep 22, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

The point is

The “horror” of strikeouts isn’t as much of a horror as fans think.

"I'm not great at farewells, so uh... that'll do, pig."
"That's the worst goodbye I've ever heard. And you stole it from a movie."

by kishi on Sep 22, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think

it would be better for the DBacks to not give up more runs than we score. (Hello bullpen)

I got nothin'.

by Bcawz on Sep 22, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think both areas need vast improvement

We know how bad our bullpen sucks. Revamp the ’pen and get some quality pitching in there

"In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back." ~Charles M Schulz

by Rockkstarr12 on Sep 22, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

That’s just crazy talk.

"I'm not great at farewells, so uh... that'll do, pig."
"That's the worst goodbye I've ever heard. And you stole it from a movie."

by kishi on Sep 22, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

To you it is

It’s obvious also that the offense just wasn’t as great this year. Another area to work on. More fundamentals too, since Hinch didn’t seem to give a crap about those, or so it seemed. Gibby at least worked more on that.

Anyway, we’ll see what Towers will do with this team.

I am going to get finished up so I can get ready to head downtown for the game.

Have fun, Gang!

"In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back." ~Charles M Schulz

by Rockkstarr12 on Sep 22, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Um

I’m pretty sure you’ve mistaken my reply as being serious again.

"I'm not great at farewells, so uh... that'll do, pig."
"That's the worst goodbye I've ever heard. And you stole it from a movie."

by kishi on Sep 22, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I feel like

this should just be your signature. Just as good as a /sarcasm check box.

I should have a mfin theme song.

by emilylovesthedbacks on Sep 22, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kishi

I can never tell when you’re being serious or sarcastic.

"In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back." ~Charles M Schulz

by Rockkstarr12 on Sep 23, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just assume everything Emily and Kishi say is sarcastic.

Per Mare, Per Terras

by justin1985 on Sep 23, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would cut down our walks a lot, too

And our home runs.

"I'm not great at farewells, so uh... that'll do, pig."
"That's the worst goodbye I've ever heard. And you stole it from a movie."

by kishi on Sep 22, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

And

My happiness

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Sep 22, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or not so yessss

Since, you know, this whole article happened

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Sep 22, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey

Don’t interfere with what Husk has already decided. No one else is able to, what makes you special?

"Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center.

by kishi on Sep 22, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cuz

I’m his father..
….

No I’m not

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Sep 22, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

But

is it happening a good thing?

Signs are for the religious, the superstitious, and the lower class.

by soco on Sep 23, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great

Writeup once again, Jim.

Simply put, walks are just as good as hits, and strikeouts just aren’t that detrimental as most people think they are. Last year there were eleven NL third baseman who created more outs per plate appearance than Mark Reynolds. Rather than obsessing about what type of outs were made, more focus should be
placed on the productivity he provides along with his continually improving defense.

People who obsess with strikeouts also ignore another component of his value, his health. Although Reynolds has missed some games this year, he’s still on pace to play nearly 90% of the season.

Wear your own fur.

by Marc Fournier on Sep 22, 2010 3:39 PM EDT reply actions  

I have always been a critic of the strikeout...

He does strike out so damn much, but you pointed out something key that will stick in my mind…
 

Last year there were eleven NL third baseman who created more outs per plate appearance than Mark Reynolds.

by ZonaBacks10 on Sep 22, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's not that straight forward

if you look at the run value chart, it’s clear that walks are not as good as a hit

but, walks are definitely really really good

by blue bulldog on Sep 22, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice write up as always but I'm not sold.

The game is played by people, not numbers and striking out with a runner on 2nd and no outs or a runner on third with 0 or 1 out is always going to more demoralizing than putting the ball in play with a chance to advance the runner. Inverse is true for the pitchers confidence.

Those things have impact beyond the transaction of the single play. Baseball might be the single-most transactional of all sports but it is still a team game where motivation, momentum, attitude and confidence matter.

I think if you want to convince me (which you should immediately take on as your life’s goal) than I would need to see the correlation between teams strikeout rates and winning % – isolated from all other variables of course.

Because in the end, even runs don’t matter as much as wins. Show me over time that teams that strike out a lot can be in the top tier in winning % and I might consider this premise.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Sep 22, 2010 4:33 PM EDT reply actions  

there are a lot of studies

that show runs is a good statistical proxy for wins

by blue bulldog on Sep 22, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

"In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back." ~Charles M Schulz

by Rockkstarr12 on Sep 22, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

The obvious problem between K-rates and W%

Are that wins are dependent, not just on the runs you score, but the runs you allow. A team could have a low K-rate and a big W%, purely through having a great pitching staff – the SF Giants would be a good example there.

"It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand." -- Brian Stimpson

by Jim McLennan on Sep 22, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

"I would need to see the correlation between teams strikeout rates and winning % – isolated from all other variables of course."

I’d imagine that’s impossible.

"I'm not great at farewells, so uh... that'll do, pig."
"That's the worst goodbye I've ever heard. And you stole it from a movie."

by kishi on Sep 22, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth

The Tampa Bay Rays are have the third-most strikeouts in the MLB right now, and things seem to be working out pretty well for them. And the Reds, who have the best offense in the NL by most metrics, have the fifth-most. I think Jim’s point is less that strikeouts lead to winning than that strikeouts don’t have any effect either way on winning.

Our Single-A team is better than your Single-A team

by Zavada's Moustache on Sep 22, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

This

“The game is played by people, not numbers and striking out with a runner on 2nd and no outs or a runner on third with 0 or 1 out is always going to more demoralizing than putting the ball in play with a chance to advance the runner. Inverse is true for the pitchers confidence.”

aint ALWAYS true though is it.

I am being a bit nit-picky, but what about a line drive out to an infielder and getting doubled-up?

I got nothin'.

by Bcawz on Sep 22, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

really great analysis

i would like to supplement it though, at least with regard to situational hitting

using the NL batting splits page you were using from BR, i divided runs by plate appearances in order to determine what i will call “run value” given on 3rd, less than 2 outs. the Diamondbacks rank 8th in the league, with a “run value” of 0.65. the teams ranking worse than us are the Dodgers, Braves, Nationals, Cubs, Mets, Reds, Phillies, and Brewers. Being around the league median isn’t stellar, but at least it isn’t terrible. right?

unfortunately, i think the problem is a little worse than it looks. like you mentioned, we have a league high OPS of 1.002. given that, we should EXPECT to have one of the best “run values” in the NL, yet we’re only 8th. of the 8 teams worse than the Diamondbacks in “run value,” only the Dodgers and Braves are NOT at the bottom of the OPS ladder.

i then looked at strikeouts per out. again, we’re right around the league median when it comes to how many of our outs are guaranteed unproductive outs. the most interesting thing of note though, is that when you plot OPS versus strikeouts per out, there is absolutely no correlation. lots of teams have high OPS and don’t strikeout, and plenty of other teams have low OPS and strikeout a lot. this says to me that we could benefit from changing our approach with a man on 3rd and less than two outs, because striking out less does NOT mean we will walk less and slug less

the other thing is, when i graphed strikeouts per out versus runs per plate appearance, there is a small negative relationship that suggests fewer strikeouts will lead to more runs

my conclusion is this. the best versus worst teams have a 10% difference when it comes to runs per plate appearance with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs. over 300 plate appearances (which is slightly less than what has occurred so far this year for each time) that amounts to 30 runs, and thus 3 wins. strikeouts per out accounts for about 23% of the difference, which i think means that if you went from the worst to best strikeout team you would improve your overall win total by 0.7 wins over the course of a season. we should probably halve that again, since we’re already at the median, when it comes to strikeouts per out. so the fact that we strikeout some in situations where there’s a runner on 3rd and less than two outs probably costs us around 0.3-0.4 wins a season. this is something that could make a difference if you’re on the cusp of making the playoffs, but hardly the biggest concern in our situation

one concern in my mind that is probably legitimate is that if you rely on OPS to get you your runs instead of a lower strikeout per out rate, your runs are more likely to come in bunches instead of being able to consistently squeeze out 1 run in those situations. just off the top of my head, that seems true for the Diamondbacks

by blue bulldog on Sep 22, 2010 4:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Good points, Jim

However, it’s worth mentioning that the Diamondbacks are scoring fewer runs than their wOBA (or OPS, if you prefer) would indicate. They are 8th in the NL in runs scored despite being 6th in both wOBA and OPS. This isn’t a huge difference, but it does suggest that they are scoring fewer runs than they “could” be, possibly due to strikeouts with people on base.

I’m not an anti-strikeout nazi by any means, but I do think it’s fair to say that this offense, as currently constructed, is incredibly one-dimensional. While there are certainly advantages to having high-HR, high-strikeout guys, I think the team could use a better balance between sluggers and high-OBP, top of the order hitters.

Just my $0.02

Our Single-A team is better than your Single-A team

by Zavada's Moustache on Sep 22, 2010 5:15 PM EDT reply actions  

i agree with this

i think we do need a better balance in the lineup

by blue bulldog on Sep 22, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

I agree with both of you. And would like to point out that much of our top talent in the minors is of a similar, one dimensional attack. In order to achieve better balance, we must make some trades to either the current roster, our top prospects, or a major farm system instructional philosophy.

by Counsellmember on Sep 23, 2010 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I enjoy this argument...

…every time you make it. An barring a team colonic I look forward to seeing it again next year.

"Well, that certainly illustrates the diversity of the word."

by VladHammer on Sep 22, 2010 5:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Actually, I look forward to not having to make it

This will probably mean we are in first place and people just don’t care about it any more. Anyone checked the Rays’ SB Nation site, see if all their fans are overwrought about leading their league in K’s?

"It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand." -- Brian Stimpson

by Jim McLennan on Sep 22, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably deep inside

They’re ruing it. They’re also probably thinking “If we had more short scrappy guys we would have won the 2008 World Series!”

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Sep 22, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry

by 4 Corners Fan on Sep 22, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

as long as people think K=death then I imagine Jim will keep making this argument.

Signs are for the religious, the superstitious, and the lower class.

by soco on Sep 22, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1,000,000!!!!

"Well, that certainly illustrates the diversity of the word."

by VladHammer on Sep 23, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strikeouts are a symptom of a problem..

…not a problem by themself, as evidenced by this article. The problem is that hitters who strikeout 150+ times in a season have 1) a severe hole in their swing, 2) poor plate discipline or 3) a weakness against a particular pitch. Therefore, good pitchers can exploit guys who fall into these categories and as we know, good pitchers are usually on good teams. For us to become a good team, we need to beat other good teams and I don’t think we can do that with this lineup striking out 1500 times.

by Seam on Sep 23, 2010 1:14 AM EDT reply actions  

none of the batters on our team

that strikeout 150+ times have poor plate discipline

i can list every single batter in the majors who doesn’t have a “weakness” against one of the five major pitches (fastball, slider, cutter, changeup, curveball): Austin Jackson, Adrian Beltre, Aubrey Huff, Andre Ethier, Carl Crawford, Joey Votto, Matt Holliday, Miguel Cabrera, Delmon Young, Jayson Werth, Carlos Gonzalez, Ryan Zimmerman, Josh Hamilton. some of these people are probably just getting lucky, as they are registering barely positive on most of these major pitches (i’m looking at you Delmon Young and Austin Jackson) but for most of the others, please let me know of a good plan on acquiring them. does it suck that none of these are Diamondbacks? yes, though KJ comes really close (he’s only bad facing sliders, and just barely at that). still, hitters who strikeout 150+ times apparently share the same problems as every batter out there aside from these 13

and finally, unless other batters have no cold areas in their respective strike zones, i don’t see how having a hole in their swing is unique to hitters who strike out

by blue bulldog on Sep 23, 2010 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Couple of thoughts

“poor plate discipline” – wouldnt OBP be a better indication of this, not the number of strike outs?
“good pitchers are usually on good teams.” – someone from the Royals wants to talk with you (I know, you said ‘usually’).

I got nothin'.

by Bcawz on Sep 23, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mark Reynolds,

the strikeout king, is also 3rd in BB%. Actually, the opposite of what you said is true: most hitters with high strikeout rates also have high walk rates.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 41

by Jdub220 on Sep 24, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

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