Protest Baseball: Are the Diamondbacks Disproportionately Targeted for SB 1070?
Since SB 1070 was signed into law by Governor Brewer on April 23, Arizona has come under fire. As a state, as an idea, no reference to the Grand Canyon State was safe from widespread mocking and insult, not only from protestors from within the state lines, but also across the US.
As perhaps a statement of how sports are truly a powerful marketing tool for a city or state, for both positive and negative, Arizona sports have been the preferred targets for SB 1070 protestors. Part of this is simply timing; as the bill was passed and signed into law, the baseball season was starting, and two Phoenix teams were entering the postseason. What better way to direct attention at your issue and your protest group than come out against a team that was already going to be in the national news?
If that were true, then we should have seen not only protesting against the Diamondbacks, but also the Suns and Coyotes. The Diamondbacks are still dealing with constant, if limited, assault but the Suns were quickly given a pass when owner Robert Sarver came out against the law. The Suns donning their Los Suns uniforms in a high-profile playoff match up against the San Antonio Spurs, while simultaneously denouncing the law, went a long way in soothing the anger of SB 1070 protesters.But what about the Coyotes? They were in a high profile playoff series against the Red Wings, one of the most popular hockey teams in America. Shouldn’t the protesters swarmed Glendale as the Coyotes fought Detroit to 7 games? Well, if there were protesters I personally didn’t see any, and there is not a single news article that references SB 1070 and Phoenix’s hockey team. It’s not outside of normal logic to say that the average SB 1070 protester, though, neither watches hockey or cares about the Coyotes. Still, not a single reference?
So what about the Cardinals, then? The NFL, as the biggest and richest league in America, gets the most coverage and would be prime territory for a protest, right? Don’t hold your breath, as the Phoenix Business Journal details local protesters plans to avoid protesting Cardinals games. That doesn’t mean they won’t change their mind when a nationally televised games comes up later in the year, but nothing is planned for now. And if an editorialist or newspaper has written an article connecting SB 1070 to the Arizona Cardinals, it doesn't show up in Google News search.
Now let’s search for SB 1070 protests in connection to the Diamondbacks. 196 results, and each result has hundreds of individual articles tied to it. Using Google search, not news, brings up over a million results for "sb 1070 diamondbacks." Now why is that? Perhaps it’s because the Diamondbacks have a marquee date in baseball next year with the 2011 All-Star Game. Or perhaps it’s because principle owner Ken Kendrick is an ardent Republican supporter, which is evidence enough for protesters.
There must be something more going on, though. Kendrick has come out and said he "personally opposes" the law, and the Diamondbacks have distanced themselves from SB 1070 as well. It’s also hard to believe that random Diamondbacks games have a better viewership for protesting than NBA playoffs, and although the MLB All-Star Game should get two or three times the TV ratings of the NBA playoffs, it’s still nothing compared to the NFL regular season. So if it was just driven by protesters hoping for a wider audience, shouldn't they want to pick the NFL, which gets routinely 16 million viewers for just regular season games?
And the Suns couldn’t have avoided the protests simply by coming out against the law, since both the Suns and the Diamondbacks came out in opposition within a couple days of each other. Perhaps the Suns took it a little further by wearing Los Suns jerseys, but that was a uniform they had ready to go and prepared from earlier in the season. It’s not like the Suns just designed a new jersey to help protest.
Perhaps what’s really underlying the disproportionate outrage at the Diamondbacks is two fold: a large Hispanic base in players and fans, and a long, travel-intensive schedule. Multiple baseball players have come out against the law, and their leadership, even if it’s indirect, is guiding the protest towards baseball and not other sports that have a lower Hispanic playing base. Baseball also has a longer schedule than any other American sport, and since the Diamondbacks have to travel all over the country, they give ample opportunity for protesters in every city and state to come out and make a scene. In the NBA playoffs a team plays at most four different teams. The Diamondbacks play four road teams a month, or more.
At this point, there might also be a snowball effect, where protestors started opposing the Diamondbacks, and as more protesters joined, they followed the lead of those that came first. There’s no reason to believe that the Diamondbacks, or even the All-Star Game, would be the best target for protesters. There’s also no reason to believe that the Diamondbacks in any way support the law in a way that the other teams in the area do not. It’s obvious the Diamondbacks receive more negative coverage than the other Phoenix teams, but complete story for why is still unclear. Perhaps the only way to know for certain is to survey protesters, but do they even know? Or are the Diamondbacks a convenient target for their general angst?
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When I went to see the D'Backs in DC
The staff of the Washington Nationals did extensive checks of bags, more in depth than usual, looking for anything that could be used to protest the law like banners. Of course, that could only stop it for so long, and many protestors stayed outside the stadium until the found a way to get in. It’s funny, because since the court system shot down a lot of aspects of SB1070, technically, Virginia has a more strict immigration policy and no one seems to be talking about that at all.
Dazzling Demel!
by Bryan J. Boltik on Aug 29, 2010 12:14 PM EDT reply actions
What's also curious
in choosing the Diamondbacks as the scapegoat, they’ve (collectively, I guess) chosen the worst team in Arizona of the four major sports. The Cardinals, Coyotes, and Suns are all playoffs teams, while the Diamondbacks are one of the worst at their sport. If you wanna attack a team to gain awareness, it seems like you’d best do it against a team that’s, I dunno, high-profile. Though, we pull in about 24,000 people a game, while the Coyotes pull in around 11,000. The Suns pull in around 17,000. The Cards, 63,000. Seems like the most popular team is deserving of the most scorn, but granted, football hasn’t been around during this whole deal. I guess the Snakes are the most popular team to attack, simply due to baseball’s wide-reaching audience (and intense traveling, as you said)…
My value over a replacement poster is approximately 10.5 runs.
Also
nice post. Well-written, and I assume that the whole SB 1070 deal (while obviously being huge nationwide) must be a headache to hear about it in Arizona. Aside from the occasional mention on Facebook, I hear nothing about it (quit watching MSM a few months ago).
My value over a replacement poster is approximately 10.5 runs.
You nailed it.
I have been to two games where protesters were standing on the corner of 4th and Jefferson yelling. Apparently, yelling back at them is grounds for their leader to threaten me? Anyway, I do know that their have been more protesters at Chase than just that one occasion.
All Cubs fans are drunken assholes, but not all drunken assholes are Cubs fans.
-Dbacksskins
but honestly
what does yelling back accomplish? It just lets them know that someone’s paying attention.
It’s alike an annoying sibling. They’re only having fun when they’re bothering someone. If we’d all stop paying attention, I bet they’d go away.
I should have a mfin theme song.
by emilylovesthedbacks on Aug 29, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Well said, Emily!
"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden
by Rockkstarr12 on Aug 29, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I think a good part of it
Is that the getting the All-Star Game moved away from Chase presents a goal, in a way that none of the other sports teams can offer. Because of the NFL shifting the Superbowl out of Arizona [albeit under radically different circumstances], there is historical precedent. Protesting the Cardinals, etc. has no prospect of achieving anything concrete at all.
"It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand." -- Brian Stimpson
They likely don't realize how much planning goes into the allstar game.
All Cubs fans are drunken assholes, but not all drunken assholes are Cubs fans.
-Dbacksskins
There has been rumbling about the Coyotes getting an allstar game in a couple of years.
All Cubs fans are drunken assholes, but not all drunken assholes are Cubs fans.
-Dbacksskins
Justin
I so agree. That was a good majoirity of the research I did for my paper in English class too
"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden
by Rockkstarr12 on Aug 29, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Posts crossed
But I was agreeing with what you said about how much planning goes into the All-Star Game
"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden
by Rockkstarr12 on Aug 29, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
You replied to the right thing :)
All Cubs fans are drunken assholes, but not all drunken assholes are Cubs fans.
-Dbacksskins
Okay :)
Wasn’t sure since my computer was being weird LOL
"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden
by Rockkstarr12 on Aug 29, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
however tightly or loosely organized this stuff is
i think people remember the mlk day flap and how it was overturned with the superbowl
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
Great article, Soco
Very well-written. I mentioned in a previous thread that I wrote a paper on this very topic for my English class and mine entailed also about protesters trying to get the All-Star Game moved out of Arizona and also about the initial reactions first to the law being passed. I even quoted our very own Augie Ojeda, as he was mentioned in many of the articles I researched for my paper.
I like what you said in this article. You pretty much put into words I believe how we all feel about this topic
"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden
It's funny
I had to re read this, " quoted our very own Augie Ojeda," because i thought you wrote “my.” :P
All Cubs fans are drunken assholes, but not all drunken assholes are Cubs fans.
-Dbacksskins
I could have said that ;)
But yeah, I meant our player :)
There was so much on the topic when I googled for my paper. I included quotes from both Derrick Hall and Gonzo too. Both had a lot to say about the All Star Game and the whole SB 1070 law. One of my classmates did her paper solely on the SB 1070 law while I did the law plus the All-Star Game.
"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden
by Rockkstarr12 on Aug 29, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems to me
that the Dbacks have just become a convenient target. I still don’t agree with the law, per se, but I’m seeing less problems with the idea behind it. (but then you look at some…uh…other things Russell Pearce is trying to pass, and it makes them all look like crazies)
I should have a mfin theme song.
by emilylovesthedbacks on Aug 29, 2010 12:49 PM EDT reply actions
I agree completely
The Dbacks have become an immediate target. Gonzo even pointed that out in something I read for my paper.
"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden
by Rockkstarr12 on Aug 29, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
isn't it obvious everyone?!
The DBacks have done awful this season when they were supposed to be contenders. The only logical conclusion is that the protesters have directly impacted the team with their actions.
/AZCentral'd
The protesters can suck it!
"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden
by Rockkstarr12 on Aug 29, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
don't say that
they can call you everything you want but if you get aggressive towards them then they’re just the victims. Haven’t you seen Whale Wars on Animal Planet?
/AZCentral'd
Nope I haven't
And I ignore protesters when I see them anyway. Why stir up a hornet’s nest with them?
"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden
by Rockkstarr12 on Aug 29, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Most protesters are happy to talk to people if you approach them...
but then, once in a while you might get a harpoon in the face.
by Counsellmember on Aug 29, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Baseball is Important
Regardless of the fact that the NFL is the 800 lbs gorilla in the sports world that everyone wants to emulate, baseball is the sport of the US. If you want an example look at the steroid scandal. You cannot tell me an equal if not greater number of pro-football players were using steroids, HGH and other performance enhancers at the same time as the hey-day of baseball’s use. Even with earlier testing you still get a lot of football players testing positive including most of the defensive line of the Vikings a couple years back who only got to keep playing because a state judge blocked the suspension (Not biased at all, nooooo). In Minnesota Jared Allen got caught and everyone just shrugged, whatever. If Joe Mauer were to get caught…the state would implode.
I’ve seen a lot of other people talk about it too, that Baseball will always be more scrutinized and more looked at even if its not the most popular simply because it’s baseball. It’s not , “Mom, apple pie and hockey,” It’s baseball. No other sport is as ingrained and thought of as being purely American as it, even as football climbs in popularity. Couple of years back in an ESPN poll MLB was still more popular than college sports even.
So part of it, in my estimation, is the fact that baseball hits a nerve with a lot of people. It’s been there through some of the darkest moments in US History and been the first thing to help start with the healing or to keep things normal. That combined the high number of Hispanic players and you get why I think they’ve gone after the D’backs, because you go after what’s most American to try and prove a point.
by mohavegreen on Aug 29, 2010 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Except
that if protesting is about message proliferation, going after baseball isn’t a smart choice of time or money (which I imagine most fringe protest groups are light on).
'Skins, I forbid you from hitting on Ramona!
It's not about audience
So much as idea. Yes, you’re right, NFL and Playoff Basketball are bigger audiences. But the Suns made such a huge deal that going after them would be seen as stupid and the NFL is popular but regional even that the games wouldn’t be shown outside of Arizona and wherever the team they’re playing is from. Beyond that because NFL isn’t as “American as mom, apple pie and baseball,” it’s not as poignant a target. Perception is, in this case, more important that sheer numbers at the time since most protesters know they’ll get on the news to spread anyway.
I do agree with your statement that the number of locations the D’backs go to is probably another big factor. Easier for groups to protest when they’re in at least 4 or 5 cities a month instead of just 2 as well as the other hypothesis you’ve brought up.
The idea
is “SB 1070 is racist and should be repealed.” So yes, it is about reaching the audience. It makes sense that one goal would be to move the ASG, but it absolutely does not make sense that they would only target the D’backs and not other Arizona sports.
'Skins, I forbid you from hitting on Ramona!
Let Me Clarify
I meant it’s not about the size of the audience at the time of the protest. The news will carry it.
I do agree that getting the ASG moved is a goal that’s picked up steam to prove a point, though.
Totally agree
baseball is held up to a much higher standard than other sports in the US. This makes it the obvious choice to latch on to for political protests because baseball still “stands for something” (or is at least perceived to).
Add on the greater Hispanic influence in the game and the fact that it is played virtually every day and it’s ideal for an anti SB1070 protest
I've got very catholic taste in music. I like anything by the Pope.
by Arizona via Slough on Aug 29, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Blargh
I’m so sick of this. Moving the ASG would hurt the people that these protesters are supposedly “fighting for.” Just like boycotting the state would. Protest in general is fine, of course, and can be effective if done intelligently, but this idea that the All-Star Game needs to be moved? Sigh.
Oh, and twenty-some states are thinking of following Arizona’s lead on putting a similar bill in place in their own states.
http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=343580&title=spoiler-alert-human-centipede - Warning: NSFW... sorta
by Dan Strittmatter on Aug 29, 2010 1:24 PM EDT reply actions
i think
the concept is that the people the protesters are fighting for are getting hurt anyway. what they want to do, is create a cost significant enough for the state to have to repeal the law
by blue bulldog on Aug 29, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
It depends which community you are talking about.
Of the most active of the activists, the DBacks are the target because of Kendrick. He came out against 1070 but in their eyes he gave money to politicians who actually voted for the thing.
I think generally people see the ASG as having a much larger economic impact than it actually has. For this reason, Joe Average activist wants the ASG moved.
Out of the players, it is a combination of actual fear of the provisions themselves, fear for family perhaps (though this is much less likely for baseball players—they have money and resources) and a feeling that if you are speaking Spanish, you are being picked on.
A couple reasons why I personally oppose the boycott are:
1) boycotts never reach the intended targets especially in a free country like the US. They just hurt the working stiff.
2) I think it just emboldens the Pearce’s and the Arpaio’s of the world. A lot of the problems we are going to have is because of the “FTW” attitude that’s going to result from pulling the All Star Game.
No Gutierrez, Sherlock!
by Reynolds rapper on Aug 29, 2010 1:37 PM EDT reply actions
is this really true?
how much economic activity does an ASG generate in general?
by blue bulldog on Aug 29, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The one in Phoenix
is estimated to bring in $60-$65m.
My value over a replacement poster is approximately 10.5 runs.
Is that total revenue or local revenue?
Most of the money comes off of the TV advertising revenue. Ticket sales go to MLB and MLB pays a rent to the DBacks for the stadium. Has anyone done studies on actual economic impact? The closest thing I could think of are the restaurant/hotel stats (which would be welcomed in July—don’t get me wrong) but how many people are there other than people in attendance?
I’m sorry for being the skeptic but money tends to move in weird ways.
No Gutierrez, Sherlock!
by Reynolds rapper on Aug 29, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
it shouldn't be a problem
there only after illegals if these idiots sorry not suppose to say that would come here right or not at all.dont blame us cause were citizens and now there using the dbacks cause one of the owners deals with politics so they must be thinking boycott az and he has pull t stop law or we will make bud change asg.hate it but thats how protestors are.
punctuation is your friend.
I should have a mfin theme song.
by emilylovesthedbacks on Aug 29, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Stopped reading it after the first several words.
All Cubs fans are drunken assholes, but not all drunken assholes are Cubs fans.
-Dbacksskins
So did I
Run-on sentences are a pet peeve of mine
/grammar nazi
"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden
by Rockkstarr12 on Aug 29, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Are they something
up with which you shall no longer put?
No Gutierrez, Sherlock!
by Reynolds rapper on Aug 31, 2010 3:57 AM EDT up reply actions
It shouldn't be a problem
The government is only after illegal immigrants. These idiots (sorry, I know I’m not supposed to say that) should only come here legally or not come here at all. Don’t blame us because we’re citizens. Now they’re using the D’backs because one of the owners is politically-involved – they must be thinking “boycott Arizona or or we will make the commish move the All-Star Game”. I hate it, but that’s how the protesters are.
/translated
My value over a replacement poster is approximately 10.5 runs.
Thank you
more than I wanted to do.
And, at the risk of starting yet another argument about the law itself, there’s also the argument that getting in legally from a lot of places is cost-prohibitive and a lot more difficult than we’d think.
I should have a mfin theme song.
by emilylovesthedbacks on Aug 29, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking from personal experience: yup
However, that doesn’t make it ok in the slightest to bypass the law. Is it alright to steal a car off a showroom lot, if you can’t afford to buy one, but really want it?
"It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand." -- Brian Stimpson
by Jim McLennan on Aug 29, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much how I see it
Although I know my opinion is probably immediately discounted simply ‘cause I’m younger than probably everyone else here, I don’t see the logic that can lead to a conclusion that because you disagree with a practice, you simply break the law to make life easier. If you wanna go ahead and fight our system and change it so it’s simpler to gain residency, that’s all fine, but if you argue that it’s cool to simply break the law because you can’t afford something just strikes me as a tad ridiculous.
My value over a replacement poster is approximately 10.5 runs.
the problem with this
is that then it should NOT be okay for journalists in China to write anti-government stuff because the law says they can’t. and a whole bunch of other laws that a lot of people (and i assume you) would disagree with
people break the law to make life easier all the time. it just means the law is not designed well. do you think it’s wrong to jaywalk? what about making right turns that don’t go into the innermost lane? just because something is a law doesn’t mean you should automatically it. people are individuals, and thus they have individual incentives. a well-designed law tries to align incentives in such a way that people don’t want to break them
by blue bulldog on Aug 29, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a difference
between a law that restricts basic freedoms and a process that “just costs too much”. Comparing the two is extremely unfair.
My value over a replacement poster is approximately 10.5 runs.
you're underestimating the term cost
restricting basic freedoms is basically just another cost, and could probably be priced if we really want it to.
i like the jaywalk example. think about it like this. let’s say i get fined 50 dollars for jaywalking when i get caught. but everytime i jaywalk, i save one minute of leisure time that i value at 1 dollar per minute. if i think i’m going to get caught once in ever 100 times i jaywalk, then it makes perfect sense in the world to me to jaywalk
therefore i SHOULD bypass the jaywalking law, because it’s simply designed poorly, and there would be more net social utility from my jaywalking
by blue bulldog on Aug 29, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Jaywalk all you want
But if you get hurt or killed as a result, it’s your own fault, and if you get arrested, don’t come whining to me. Basically, people need to be responsible for the consequences of their illegal actions.
Right now, once you’ve successfully crossed the border, there is little or no risk of that – even though almost half of all illegal immigrants enter the country legally, and just don’t go home. SB 1070 is designed to address that.
Now, if you want to talk about the underlying immigration policy, etc. that’s a completely separate discussion.
"It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand." -- Brian Stimpson
by Jim McLennan on Aug 29, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I got a ticket for jaywalking once
I should have a mfin theme song.
by emilylovesthedbacks on Aug 29, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
My favorite jaywalking story
Is watching two drunk guys decide to jaywalk in Flagstaff. It was particularly funny since they were standing next to a cop car when they decided to do it.
"It's a fez. I'm wearing a fez now. Fezes are cool."
*shrug
i mean, whether the law should be bypassed or not is entirely dependent upon individual incentive
what i just mean to say is, it’s not immediately clear that just because something is a law means you should never bypass it, and there are economic models to explain why sometimes you SHOULD bypass laws
at risk of making this too political, i just think there are a lot of questions about SB 1070 that both sides (the protesters and proponents) don’t think enough about. keep in mind, i have little idea as to what the answers to these questions are, but i think it’s important to at least think about them. 1) what are the goals of SB 1070 (to limit illegal immigrants entry into AZ?) 2) why do we care about this goal (for economic reasons? xenophobic reasons? social cost reasons?) 3) what are the costs to this law (harassment of legal citizens? might there be lower economic growth?) 4) are the costs worth the goal, and if so, is there a way of accomplishing the goal while having fewer costs?
by blue bulldog on Aug 29, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
All legitimate questions
Somewhat outside the scope of this piece, I suspect. :-)
"It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand." -- Brian Stimpson
by Jim McLennan on Aug 29, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
However,
with 1070 there is not a set of incentives that can stop it. People are going through the deadliest entry route in the US. If people are willing to die, there is nothing else you can do.
This is a feel-good law on the part of the enforcers.
No Gutierrez, Sherlock!
by Reynolds rapper on Aug 29, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
if a law is bad you should bypass it
just think of all the laws in other countries that you disagree with and believe shouldn’t be enforced
if you’re analyzing a law, you should think about the goals the law is trying to accomplish, if it is a goal you wish accomplished (and why), does it even accomplish the goal you are trying to accomplish, what are the costs of implementing this law, and is this the least costly method towards accomplishing the goal
by blue bulldog on Aug 29, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
That's fair enough
But the protests against SB 1070 – which, largely, is just enforcing existing law – are doing none of the above. It’s simply a kneejerk reaction: in a lot of cases, from people who aren’t aware of what the law actually states.
"It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand." -- Brian Stimpson
by Jim McLennan on Aug 29, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
i actually agree a lot with this
it is a kneejerk reaction, from a lot of people who don’t realize that the law just tries to increase enforcement of existing law
but the thing is, the protest does increase more discussion and debate about that existing law, and that debate might effect change, which is what the protest is aimed out
by blue bulldog on Aug 29, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, hell
Is that an option? I’ll just go do that, instead.
In all seriousness, no. It doesn’t make it okay to bypass the law, but it also makes me wonder why the protesters are only protesting this particular piece of legislation. If there is this underlying problem with the structure of our immigration system, why aren’t people trying to improve that instead? Protesting and boycotting can make a difference, if done right, but I’m not seeing the desired effect. In fact, the only effect I’m seeing is one that actually hurts the people they’re trying to help.
I’m not really sure that even made sense, but there we are.
I should have a mfin theme song.
by emilylovesthedbacks on Aug 29, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm not trying to be antagonistic
because i think this is an interesting debate, but why do you think the protesting and boycotting hurts the people they’re trying to help?
by blue bulldog on Aug 29, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Well,
in theory, the boycotts are supposed to stop people from coming to Arizona and spending money here. Correct me if I’m wrong (this is based purely on anecdotal evidence and personal observation, I’m too lazy to look up statistics), but a lot of the hospitality industry (and other industries that tourists pour money into) employ illegal immigrants, mostly Mexicans and Central Americans.
tl;dr Taking money away from the people they’re boycotting in support of.
I should probably pay attention to my homework now, instead.
I should have a mfin theme song.
by emilylovesthedbacks on Aug 29, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a similar argument
that was used against a boycott of South Africa during the apartheid era (I’m not comparing Az to South Africa!).
For the boycotter it’s a question of deciding which is the greater priority, maintaining the status quo in the present or changing it in the future.
I've got very catholic taste in music. I like anything by the Pope.
by Arizona via Slough on Aug 29, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
right
status quo versus future change is part of the debate
it also depends on if the boycotter thinks that the law makes it so that those illegal immigrants are going to get screwed anyways even if protestors don’t boycott, so it doesn’t matter if them boycotting takes money away from illegal immigrants
by blue bulldog on Aug 29, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand that
but I think there are better ways to attempt a change of the status quo than an out and out boycott, especially when it’s an issue that isn’t going to change overnight (especially considering the current political climate)
I should have a mfin theme song.
by emilylovesthedbacks on Aug 29, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
it's also confusing
because boycotters could be of multiple camps
if you’re of the “law violates civil rights of our citizens” camp then you don’t really care if your boycotting hurts illegal immigrants do you?
if you’re of the “illegal immigrants are people too and they need to be protected”….then boycotting makes no sense if you think SB 1070 won’t change the status quo too much, but boycotting makes sense if you think SB 1070 will be heavily enforced and illegal immigrants will be deported in droves
by blue bulldog on Aug 29, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
the so called boycotts
have been an abysmal failure. We only here that side, never the other side with people and businesses going out of there way to visit this state, do business with this state, and buy our products.
I find the tone and overall message of the protesters to be quite vile and really think they are doing more harm than good.
Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of sin.
by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 29, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
they get a similar rep to the Tea Party
they may not be a bad organization with a good message but the majority that reaches the media are nutjob extremists. Politics as usual?
/AZCentral'd
The thing that bugs/amuses me
Is the people who run out onto the field are not shown on television, usually, out of principle, so your audience is the other people at the game who came to SEE the game, and probably didn’t get a great look at the banner before they were dragged off, thus impressing nobody.
I ain’t an SB 1070 fan, but I’m content to let the courts sort it out, as they’re supposed to in this country. While both the D’Backs and politics can make me want to throw things against the wall, I like to keep em separated.
Bad doormat! No stock options!
by Clefo on Aug 29, 2010 2:02 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Probably this is why we keep it. The sections that drive people the craziest are those that are going to be enjoined until after the game.
No Gutierrez, Sherlock!
by Reynolds rapper on Aug 29, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Ticket Prices
may be a factor. It’s a lot cheaper to get into a regular-season baseball game than it is to get into a fottball, hockey, or basketball game (especially during the playoffs). Your protest dollar goes a lot further when you spend it on baseball.
But
Raul Grijalva told me to boycott Arizona, his own damned state?
Also, I’d like to barbecue Raul Grijallva over boycotted coals.
Mr. Science Boy
Considering
CD7 puts the “Gerry” in “Gerrymandering” I doubt it.
I live in CD8 though, and I think Skins does too, so it’s out of of our hands
Bad doormat! No stock options!
That was ridiculous.
But now he says it’s OK to not boycott.
No Gutierrez, Sherlock!
by Reynolds rapper on Aug 29, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
That's Because...
…the people who would re-elect him are telling him that the boycott is hurting them and they’re upset with him over it. Amazing what happens when enough people actually tell an elected official their butt’s on the line and can do it.
The stay gave him
an opportunity to save face and avoid a flip-flop charge.
No Gutierrez, Sherlock!
by Reynolds rapper on Aug 29, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
a politician flip - flop??
No way! unheard of!
/snarky towards politicians in general, not you RR.
Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of sin.
by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 29, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, but politicians
need a fig leaf and changing circumstances provided such a fig leaf.
No Gutierrez, Sherlock!
by Reynolds rapper on Aug 30, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
The only hate I've seen to date on this
has come from the opposition. The protesters words and actions have done more to sway my opinion than anything else.
Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of sin.
by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 29, 2010 2:50 PM EDT reply actions
+1
"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden
by Rockkstarr12 on Aug 29, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
La Russa and Pujols
have done thier bit to take the heat of the Diamondbacks by attending Glenn Beck’s rally.
I've got very catholic taste in music. I like anything by the Pope.
by Arizona via Slough on Aug 29, 2010 3:05 PM EDT reply actions
La Russa also
came out in favor of SB1070 too.
Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of sin.
by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 29, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
And how did they manage to do that?
Last time I checked, neither was in any way associated with the Dbacks
Bring back the Baltimore Chop!
high profile sporting figures (one being Latino)
supporting the figure heads that are most vocal about the law. Therefore putting less focus on Kendrick and the DBacks contributions to the figureheads. Essentially they are diluting the contempt.
/AZCentral'd
Pujols
Is very much against SB 1070,, while LaRussa is all for it
"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden
by Rockkstarr12 on Aug 29, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
have the dbacks been very vocal/public about disapproving?
i actually didn’t even know kendrick issued a statement until today, but i know the suns’s statements (particularly steve nash’s) were very very publicized
Augie Ojeda
Has been quoted as saying he’s against SB 1070
"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden
by Rockkstarr12 on Aug 29, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
What I never understood
Is how the Suns got such praise for wearing their Los Suns jerseys, when the DBacks have had Los DBacks jerseys for Hispanic Heritage Day (or whatever) for years, and no one seems to care.
"It's a fez. I'm wearing a fez now. Fezes are cool."
and I am willing to bet
the vast majority of other owners are the same.
Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of sin.
by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 29, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, that's lame
I think it’s great that the Dbacks honor the Hispanic population with the wearing of the Los Dbacks jerseys and the whole Hispanic Heritage Day. Just goes to show our team is not racist in any way, shape, or form, and it cares about its Hiapnic players and fans
"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden
by Rockkstarr12 on Aug 29, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
perhaps a better indication of support
would be wearing those jerseys multiple times, just not on the specifically appointed day (like the Suns did during the playoffs).
Grijalva was wrong to support the boycott and was informed as such and has backed off of it. The result of the passage of the law has truly hurt Arizona tourism, mostly because the bulk of tourists in Arizona come from Mexico.
My biggest issue with the law is the hysteria that was drummed up along with it….
actual illegal border crossings are down
crime in border communities is down
no headless bodies have been found in the desert over the past two years
the existing law works just fine, local cops pick up folks suspected of being here illegally and turn them over to the feds, the SB 1070 law now enables that responsibility to be taken by the local cops as well, who aren’t equipped/staffed to handle those tasks. Which has the “potential” to mean that instead of tracking down who stole your bike or stereo or directing traffic snafus they’ll be doing this instead. It does give Sheriff Joe the lattitude he’s always sought supposedly.
If they want to tackle illegal immigration, they have to examine the process as to how long it takes to become a citizen (I’ve seen it posted as taking up to 3 years but ymmv) and also nail those employers that use/exploit those folks.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
by piratedan7 on Aug 30, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd partly because I agree with you
but mainly because you are a Derby County fan! (and the Canucks, and an Elvis Costello quote). I’m not posting as somebody else in an alcohol induced haze am I? Am I?
I've got very catholic taste in music. I like anything by the Pope.
by Arizona via Slough on Aug 30, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think so
I became a fan of Derby County when they had the next to last run in the premiership, an underdog kinda thing, because hell, its easy to root for Chelsea, Arsenal or Manchester United, its like rooting for the Dodgers, Red Sox or Yankees. The Canucks I became attached to because they were one of the few teams that would play exhibitions in Arizona BEFORE the team came here from the Great White North. I was in college in the late 70’s and Elvis was unlike anything else going on. I loved the imagery in his lyrics and his ability to still write stuff that would get you on the dance floor and yet be thought provoking. Plus it helped that he had Basher in the booth.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
Fear
This all comes down to fear and the playing of us against each other based on that fear.
Who is benefiting from that fear? Who is benefiting from keeping us all agitated.
Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of sin.
by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 30, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's overblown
and only popular among certain left wing groups.
The Great and Mighty....
by NASCARbernet on Aug 29, 2010 8:42 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

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