Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Nevin Shapiro Vows To Bring Down Miami

When can the Diamondbacks hope to compete again?

Since 1970, teams have lost 100 or more games in a season on 46 occasions,.as the Diamondbacks are on pace to do in 2010. 38 of those teams have since reached the play-offs - the Royals currently have four 100-loss years since their last play-off appearance, the Nationals two, and the Pirates + Mariners one apiece. How long does it take teams to bounce-back to contention after a "nightmare year"?

After the jump, we'll take a look at the numbers,

Star-divide

Over the 38 occasions where a team has lost 100 games and subsequently returned to the playoffs, the average wait was 8.63 seasons. [Note: where a team had multiple 100-loss years before a post-season run, we treated those as separate streaks. For instance, the Rays reached the playoffs in 2008, after losing a hundred in 2006, 2002 and 2001, so that counted as streaks of two, six and seven years]. The range was from two seasons, by a trio of clubs, to 24 years - that was the Cleveland Indians, who also had three additional 100-loss seasons before they got back to the playoffs in 1995, after they first had 100 defeats in 1971. Let's hope that isn't us.

However, the turnaround time seems to have become significantly less in recent times, which makes sense as the playoff field has expanded. In 1970, only four of 24 teams reached the post-season - 17% - now, the number is eight of 30, which works out as sixty percent more in any given year. If you look at 100-loss teams since the current set-up was established in 1998, none of the eight successful "resurrection franchises" have had to wait as long as eight years, with the average being only 4.5. However, we do still have the Pirates (this will be their ninth season) and Royals (eighth), who have lengthy ongoing streaks which started under the present system.

Here are the seven teams who have risen from the dead in three seasons or less, over the past forty years, along with their W-L records in the nightmare year, and how far they got in the playoffs when they made it back there. Note that three did so since 2003, including of course the Diamondbacks.

Two years
2006 Rays, 61-101 - 2008, reached WS
1985 Giants, 62-100 - 1987, reached NLCS
1979 A's, 54-108 - 1981, reached ALCS
Three years
2004 Diamondbacks, 51-111 - 2007, reached NLCS
2003 Tigers, 43-119 - 2006, reached WS
1993 Padres, 61-101 - 1996, reached NLDS
1988 Braves, 56-106 - 1991, reached WS

One thing is that the number of losses does not seem to matter - in fact, there is a negative correlation between losses and time to return (-0.29). In other words, the more games you lose, there's a tendency - albeit a weak one - to bounce back quicker. Better draft picks maybe? It's interesting to note that in the majority of these cases, the teams concerned didn't turn in "just happy to be here" performances in the post-season, but actually prevailed in one or more series.

The overwhelming evidence is that, it's not just 2010 that is toast for the Diamondbacks, but 2011 too: no 100-game loser in modern times has ever seen October baseball the next season. The closest is probably the 1998 Arizona team, who lost 97, then went 35 games better the following year to reach 100 wins, still a franchise record, and take the NL West. The 2008 Rays improved by 31 games, and the 1989 Orioles by 33; they're the only teams to get 30+ wins better in one season since 1962, though the last-named still didn't make the post-season. At the current D-backs pace of 59 victories, thirty more in 2011 might well still fall short of the playoffs.

Even if it turns out to be 2012 or 2013, what portion of the team can be salvaged? Or, as the classic grindhouse tagline has it, "Who will survive, and what will be left of them?" Let's take the 2004 Diamondbacks and compare the roster - the 13 position players with the most PAs, five pitchers who started the most games and the seven relievers with the most bullpen innings - to the 2007 version. I've highlighted the common names in bold. It didn't take long.

2004 Position 2007 Position 2004 Pitchers 2007 Pitchers
Alex Cintron Eric Byrnes Randy Johnson Brandon Webb
Shea Hillenbrand Chris Young Brandon Webb Livan Hernandez
Danny Bautista Stephen Drew Casey Fossum Doug Davis
Chad Tracy Orlando Hudson Steve Sparks Micah Owings
Steve Finley Conor Jackson Casey Daigle Edgar Gonzalez
Luis Gonzalez Mark Reynolds Greg Aquino Jose Valverde
Scott Hairston Chris Snyder Mike Koplove Tony Peña
Luis Terrero Carlos Quentin Elmer Dessens Brandon Lyon
Robby Hammock Chad Tracy Stephen Randolph Juan Cruz
Juan Brito Tony Clark Randy Choate Doug Slaten
Matt Kata Miguel Montero Lance Cormier Dustin Nippert
Quinton McCracken Scott Hairston Andrew Good Brandon Medders
Roberto Alomar Alberto Callaspo


[Edgar Gonzalez tied with Casey Daigle for 2004 starts, but EdGon pitched fewer innings] That's a total of three players on both rosters. And the two position players, Tracy and Hairston, combined for one plate-appearance with Arizona after August 12 in the 2007 campaign, having been injured and traded to San Diego respectively. That is an 88% churn rate. I did the same for the 2006/08 Rays (80% churn, with Carl Crawford, Jonny Gomes, Dioner Navarro, Scott Kazmir and James Shields on both) and 2003/06 Tigers (76%: Craig Monroe, Brandon Inge, Omar Infante, Jeremy Bonderman, Jamie Walker, Wilfredo Ledezma).

That gives you some idea concerning the scale of makeover that will probably be necessary to the team, if they are to compete in 2013. It's clear that any kind of quick turnaround is not due to existing players improving - though that can help, as in Shields' Tampa Bay ERA+ going from 96 to 124. Any sea-change is mostly the result of bad players being replaced with good ones. Easy, really. But where do the resurrection franchises get these good players from? There's three main sources: the draft, trades and free-agency. So I broke down the new players for each of the three successful teams, to see how they arrived there.

2008 Rays (20): four drafted, six free agents, nine traded, one purchased (Akinori Iwamura).
2007 Diamondbacks (22): eight drafted, four amateur free agents, three free agent, seven traded.
2006 Tigers (19): three drafted, one amateur free agent, seven free agents, one rule 5 draftee, seven traded.

There's not really any obvious pattern here. The Rays mostly used trades, the D-backs seemed to get some good drafts, and the Tigers had a higher percentage of free agents than the other two. Which brings me to one final point: payroll. Detroit paid out a lot more cash in 2006 than three years previously - 68% more, to be exact. Tampa, too, had to open up their wallets, though not as much, with a 24% increase. The exception is Arizona, who spent 25% less in 2007, when they reached the NLCS, than they did to lose 111 games.

It is possible for the Diamondbacks to compete again, sooner rather than later. But the evidence is that it will take the team an absolute minimum of two years - and that will require smart moves, no small amount of good luck and the blossoming of prospects who currently are in the farm system. It's the last point - and the fact that most of our top prospects are still in the deeper reaches of the minor-league ranks - which is perhaps the most important for Arizona's likely development. In the absence of something unexpected, such as ownership suddenly giving us a $150m payroll, it makes me think we are probably a minimum of three years from competition. 

Poll
When do you think the Diamondbacks will compete again?
2011
24 votes
2012
63 votes
2013
60 votes
2014
33 votes
2015 or beyond
72 votes

252 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 21 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

2012

after that the world is over with. havent you heard the prophecies bro ?

If you'd have been a dog.....
They would of drowned you at birth.

by edbigghead on Jul 29, 2010 12:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Then I should get cracking

on the whole dating thing?

No Gutierrez, Sherlock!

by Reynolds rapper on Jul 29, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wouldn't that mean

that the Cubs should finally win in 2012?

by G.O.B. on Jul 29, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

no. they are doomed.

If you'd have been a dog.....
They would of drowned you at birth.

by edbigghead on Jul 29, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

So are we retiring tankapalooza again?

The last time it was retired it was for what, 48 hours? :)

No Gutierrez, Sherlock!

by Reynolds rapper on Jul 29, 2010 12:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh, no

It won’t be retired until the next meaningful winning streak, i.e. three or more games.

"It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand." -- Brian Stimpson

by Jim McLennan on Jul 29, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

great article, Jim

very realistic scenario. hunker down, snakepit, and smoke ’em if ya got ’em.

Go Sedona Red

by jonny-yuma on Jul 29, 2010 3:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Remember

Keep your firearms and pickaxes handy after the D’Backs nuclear rebuilding fallout, in case you have to fight mutants

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 29, 2010 4:36 PM EDT reply actions  

And have plenty of gold handy...

…and be sure to find that special someone who said “Not if you are the last man on earth.” Oh wait, that last part may just be me.

No Gutierrez, Sherlock!

by Reynolds rapper on Jul 29, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

That

or bottle caps, they weigh less then gold :O

by Spaghetti_Monster on Jul 29, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's a store

down by my place that advertises itself as a zombie armory.

I should have a mfin theme song.

by emilylovesthedbacks on Jul 30, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

ZOMG

WHERE??

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Aug 3, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm

ALWAYS ready to fight mutants.

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Aug 3, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Professor Xavier

is disappointed in you.

"It's a fez. I'm wearing a fez now. Fezes are cool."

by kishi on Aug 3, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, well,

at least I can go for a jog whenever I want.

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Aug 3, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would certainly help

if we didn’t have an interim GM at the deadline. I’d prefer the guy that’ll take the reins for the rebuilding process to start now, rather than for him to take over after DiPoto’s done. It doesn’t mean DiPoto will make any more terrible screwups, but I’d hate to see a GM fall back on DiPoto any time something goes wrong with the team.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like mouth?
The cool Snakepit.

by Wailord on Jul 29, 2010 4:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks for the write-up, Jim

I don’t know about everyone else, but I’m considerably more worried about the team’s ability to contend in 2012 or even 2013 than I was before the Haren trade. Barring a huge trade, an uncharacteristic FA signing, or rapid development from Parker, the Dbacks aren’t going to have anything resembling an ace going into 2013. And I’m sure everyone knows how difficult it is to win without pitching in this league.

If it were just a matter of patience it would be one thing, but 2012-2013 is when the core of this team (Upton/Reynolds/Montero/Young) start becoming free agents. I’m all for rebuilding, but it would be a shame to waste the primes of our best young players.

Kelly Johnson DOES simply walk into Mordor.

by Zavada's Moustache on Jul 30, 2010 12:04 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't see

an option for “never.”

by Azreous on Jul 30, 2010 2:04 AM EDT reply actions  

Why

you gotta be such a Debbie Downer?

No crying in the Snakepit. That's what your apartment is for.

by soco on Jul 30, 2010 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm guessing that's

the “beyond”

I should have a mfin theme song.

by emilylovesthedbacks on Jul 30, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

2013 is probably what our FO is looking at

as the beginning of our competitive window

in 2013, we’re probably going to go the cheap, young starting pitching route, with five starters from a group of parker, kennedy, enright, brewer, anderson, hudson, skaggs, colbin, collmenter, miley. obviously, we have a ton of depth now when it comes to young starting pitching, but we’re going to have to bank on at least two of these guys becoming top of the rotation arms. this would be an incredibly cheap group, as i see our five starters in 2013 having a combined salary of less than 10 million

our offense will look something like this:
C Montero/Schmidt
1B Goldschmidt/Allen
2B Abreu?
SS Owings?
3B Reynolds/Davidson/Borchering
LF Krauss
CF Young
RF Upton

assuming we pick up reynolds’s option for 11 million (though I could conceivably see us trying to trade reynolds before then and letting davidson have a shot at 3B) and sign Miggy to an extension that covers at least one year of free agency (my guesstimate is he’ll be paid 8 million this year), then along with Young’s 8.5 million and Upton’s 10 million (Krauss/Goldschmidt/Allen would be getting paid very little at this point) our budget excluding SS/2B will be sitting around 40 million

optimistically, by 2013 our budget will be around 65-70 million

that gives us 15-20 million to create a bullpen (which will include who we hope is closer phenom bryan woodall) and resolve our issues at SS/2B (though hopefully owings will be able to pan out at one of the positions…)

based on the rest of our roster, we should try to find ppl at SS/2B who have very little power but play good defense and have good OBP who can bat lead off

by blue bulldog on Jul 30, 2010 9:21 AM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the AZ SnakePit, the SB Nation blog about the Arizona Diamondbacks. "When you think about the past all the time, when you get to the present day you are thinking about the past so it becomes your future again." -- Kirk Gibson.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Hl_small
New Primary Logo in 2012
Small
Free D-backs autograph session this Friday
Tmottbg_small
Exclusive Behind the Scene Tour of CHASE
Tmottbg_small
March 10 Spring Training Opportunity
Syd-barrett_small
Diamondbacks Claim Craig Tatum Off Waivers; 40 man roster full
Shoewizard-baby-72x72_small
Whats the deal with Josh Collmenter ?
Ryro_hangten_small
A Sad Day In The World Of Scrappy-ness: David Eckstein Retires
Ryro_hangten_small
Former Diamondback Craig Counsell Retires
Small
DBacks Fantasy Camp Autographs
Small
Salary Cap Dynasty League Openings

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Manager

Lucha_small Jim McLennan

Bench coaches

Madmen_icon_small snakecharmer

My-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-brony-not-the-element-of-efficiency_small kishi

Scarlett_small soco

Us1jack_small DbacksSkins

Players

Wailord_by_xous54_small Wailord

Hl_small Marc Fournier

Golden_dome_small Dan Strittmatter

Avogadro_small Zavada's Moustache

Small blue bulldog