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Around SBN: The Ten Worst Swings Of The 2011 Season

Dan Haren traded to Los Angeles Angels for Joe Saunders and three prospects

It has just been announced that Dan Haren has been traded to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim for for Joe Saunders, Patrick Corbin, Rafael Rodriguez and a player to be named.

Joe Saunders is a left-handed starting pitcher, with a career ERA+ of 104, who is arbitration-eligible for the 2011 and 2012 seasons. Patrick Corbin is another lefty, currently starting for the Angels High-A affiliate - he only turned 21 last week. Rafael Rodriguez is a right-handed reliever, who has only thrown 32.2 innings in the majors. Nick Piecoro just tweeted "Told the player to be named in the deal is a top prospect..."

Details after the jump.

Star-divide

Joe Saunders was a first-round pick by the Angels in 2002. He made his debut with them in 2005 and has been a mainstay of their rotation since the second-half of 2007. In 115 starts with LAA, he has a record of 54-32, and and an ERA of 4.29. His best season was 2008, when Saunders went 17-7, and posted a 3.41 ERA. However, he has struggled this season, going 6-10, though his ERA of 4.62 is not too much higher than it was last year - his FIP is actually better, at 4.70. He's not a massive strikeout guy, averaging 5.10 strikeouts per nine innings, with walks around the three mark.

Contract wise, this was his first year of eligibility for arbitration, but the Angels avoided that by agreeing with him on a one-year contract worth $3.7 million. He was initially probably the #2 guy in the LAA rotation, and is the same age as Haren, 29 (about nine months younger than Dan, to be precise). However, his overall numbers are largely because he struggled out of the gate, posting a 7.04 ERA in the first six starts of the season. Saunders has turned it around a bit since: over the fourteen starts since that point, he has a 3.80 ERA.

Rafael Rodriguez got signed by the Angels as an amateur free-agent in 2001. He has been in Triple-A for most of the time since 2008, and has a 3.10 ERA in 68 relief appearances there. His K:BB ratio is about 2:1, in 98.2 innings of work. Rodriguez struggled a bit when called up to the majors last season, allowing 19 earned runs in 30.2 frames with the Angels, a 5.58 ERA. He struck out ten and walked nine. Rodriguez is, however, still quite young - he won't turn 26 until September.

It will be interesting to see how the roster situation shakes down with regard to these two players. Obviously, Saunders can replace Haren, but we will need to clear a spot on the 40-man roster for Rodriguez and, if he is going to be with the team, on the major-league roster too. I suspect this will not be the case, with Rodriguez being more likely to go down to Triple-A Reno. The 40-man, as shown, still has Clay Zavada on it, which surprises me, as I thought he had Tommy John surgery, and would be on the DL. We'll see how that works out.

Patrick Corbin was rated the Angels #22 prospect by Halo's Heaven, and they said at the start of the season, "With three promising pitches, he profiles as a mid to back of the rotation starter down the road, but is still a long, long ways away." You can view scouting video of Corbin here. He struggled a bit in his pro debut, allowing 26 earned runs over 46.1 innings of rookie-ball, but seems to have improved this season. His ERAs at A and High-A levels have been very similar - 3.86 and 3.88 respectively - however, his K-rates have improved at the higher grade, with Corbin fanning 64 in 60.1 innings there, with only 18 walks.

On the player to be named later, Nick Piecoro is reporting it's not Mike Trout - the Diamondbacks apparently have a list from which they can pick, though we're not sure when the choice has to be made. Piecoro reckons that left-handed pitcher Tyler Skaggs would make sense, saying Arizona "were close to drafting him last year." It would make sense he would be a PTBNL, because players can't be dealt for their first year in an organization, and Skaggs was not signed by Anaheim until August.

If it is him, Skaggs turned 19 last month, and was the overall fortieth pick in the 2009 draft. He has been mostly a starter in A-ball for the Angels, and has a 3.61 ERA over 82.1 innings. Skaggs has struck out fractionally less than one batter per frame this season, with a K:BB ratio around 4:1. When Halos Heaven wrote about Skaggs in February, he was rated the #9 prospect in the system, they compared him to the A's Brett Anderson, and said "He's got the stuff and projection to have a very good chance of winding up as a mid-rotation starter, even if his ceiling lowers in coming seasons."

 


 

There are your basic facts. Now comes the opinion. :-) I am pretty much in agreement with Nick Piecoro, who tweeted, "I’m withholding judgment on this deal until we see who is the PTBNL is and what the Diamondbacks do with the money they saved." At the moment, the Angels definitely got the better end of the trade, with an ace for the rotation, in exchange for a pitcher who, like Haren, has been struggling, but has not been as good overall, a fringe reliever and a prospect with potential, but who probably won't be any help until 2013 or so.

There's no doubt that this is, to some extent, a salary dump, with Haren due to make $12.75m in 2011 and 2012, with a $15.5m team option (or a $3.5m buyout) for 2013 - there is no indication the Diamondbacks are paying any of Haren's salary. Assuming Saunders gets about $5m next season, will the team spend the difference - perhaps on a free-agent closer - or simply reduce payroll? The 2011 rotation would now seem to be Ian Kennedy, Edwin Jackson, Saunders, Barry Enright and perhaps Jarrod Parker: while lacking an obvious "ace," would seem to be pretty solid from top to bottom.

However, in the absence of other moves, it's very hard to see the current 100-loss team competing in 2011 with Saunders replacing Haren - even a die-hard optimist such as myself is now basically writing off that season as a lost cause. I think we may be better saved by investing the savings, getting rid of some deferred debt or perhaps putting it towards signing our two high draft-picks next June.

One thing that surprised me was that the news was basically broken by the TV broadcast this afternoon. When Daron Sutton said just before going to commercial break that there was "big news" on the trade-front, I was thinking it was going to be some lame stunt involving the Legends Race - we traded Grace for Teddy Roosevelt or something like that. But it was a genuine scoop - one entirely missed by the entire Twitterverse. Sometimes old-school media still wins!

Poll
The trade of Haren is...
Great!
29 votes
Good!
76 votes
Let's see who the PTBNL is
176 votes
Bad!
136 votes
Terrible!
381 votes

798 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 354 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

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Not

sure what to think of this one yet.

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 6:24 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm

not going to contemplate suicide no matter who the PTBNL is.

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry

by 4 Corners Fan on Jul 25, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know, it was a joke

It would be dissapointing if it’s not trout tho

by SeanMillerSavior on Jul 25, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

NO JOKES

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

JUST FACTS!

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 25, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

If not trout,

how about I.M.A. Halibut?

No Gutierrez, Sherlock!

by Reynolds rapper on Jul 25, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's the Angels so...

.. We couldn’t have gotten Tim Salmon?

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 25, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

C'mon, guys

If you have real suggestions, out with it. No need to be koi.

"Hey, I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"

by kishi on Jul 25, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm trying to come up with a good prospect

but the beta version of this software won’t let me post

Blogging about my summer at a Chinese law firm.
NEW BLOG, as my original one is blocked by the Great Firewall.
http://ajinshanghai.wordpress.com/

by JustAJ on Jul 25, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well with the guys we have..

… Might not be highly rated but can be developed. It’s easy to tuna prospect

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 25, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

the prospect may offer us

a ray of hope

Blogging about my summer at a Chinese law firm.
NEW BLOG, as my original one is blocked by the Great Firewall.
http://ajinshanghai.wordpress.com/

by JustAJ on Jul 25, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope

that grouper PTBNL prospects has some good ones.

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

This sounds

Just a little FISHY to me ;)

"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden

by Rockkstarr12 on Jul 25, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

Idk much of this trade yet… But if we were to trade to a team, I definitely don’t mind the Angels. I like them, here’s to him having a great rest of the season with Anaheim.

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 6:26 PM EDT reply actions  

For those interested

Saunders is 29, Corbin is 21 (just turned), and Rodriguez is 25. Saunders ERA+ is 92 this year, while Corbin has a 3.87ERA in A-ball, and Rodriguez has a 3.04ERA in AAA (and one game this year for the Angels).

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like mouth?
The cool Snakepit.

by Wailord on Jul 25, 2010 6:26 PM EDT reply actions  

thanks

so only 1 of the other guys is ML-ready? (Knowing this team, though, Corbin will be up sooner than one would logically think)

by morineko on Jul 25, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think its a good trade

We pretty much were destined to trade him. We have Jarrod Parker, and hopefully Webb soon- and we have Kennedy and Lopez locked down for next year. Corbin has good minor numbers and Saunders will (hopefully) work back to his ’08 ’09 form

Currently the only D'Backs fan in the Air Force...

by Torpedosneak on Jul 25, 2010 6:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Webb?

Who is that?

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry

by 4 Corners Fan on Jul 25, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some reliever

for the Padres.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

here's a preview of corbin at the angels blog

http://www.halosheaven.com/2010/1/20/1261991/pat-corbin-angels-top-prospect-22

can’t find much on rodriguez.

Joe Saunders has been underwhelmingly bad for the halos this year though. his era is bloated and is having some troubles with walks. sounds like a pure dbacks starter.

Haiku are simple,
But they often don't make sense,
Refrigerator.

by blank_38 on Jul 25, 2010 6:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Trouble with walks?

He’ll freakin’ blend.

Give me the ball.

by NASCARbernet on Jul 25, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoever is calling the shots was probably like,

“HE WON 33 GAMES THE LAST TWO YEARS TRADE FOR HIM DOITDOITDOIT!”

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 6:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Hm

I’ll “Wait n’ see” with the trade.

And it’s funny how he went to a team none of them “Insider” people were reporting on. And it IS kinda nice for the Yankees to go 0 for 2 so far in getting pitchers they probably don’t need.

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 25, 2010 6:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Reminds us

that if you hear about a trade, it’s either dead, or has already happened.

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

This PTBNL

better be really good.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 6:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Does it really matter?

I mean of course we want a good player in return. duh. But I mean, how many wins have we gotten with Haren on the mound in his last 6 or so starts? He’s struggled, we are probably trading him at good time. To get FOUR players back for him is a win in my book, and I haven’t even done any research on these guys we got in return.

I guess the biggest part of why I like this is Dan Haren deserves better. He deserves to be on a team that is still in the run for the playoffs. Good for Haren!

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, we are not trading him at a good time.

All of his peripherals, every one, says he’ll bounce back.
Saunders isn’t good.
Rodriguez is 25 in AAA, and it’s not like he’s getting blocked with the Angels’ rotation…
And Corbin is someone who I’ve never heard of. Which means, he probably isn’t very special.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

When would you want to trade him?

Oh he’ll bounce back, so he can raise our already horrendous record a few more wins? What’s the point?

Dude you’re already pessimistic about it. Relax.

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

so he can pitch next year

or in 2012. Just because we suck doesn’t mean you have to trade our best players. That is what the Pirates do and that is why they are the Pirates. This fourth guy better be good or this could be a pretty big disaster.

Blogging about my summer at a Chinese law firm.
NEW BLOG, as my original one is blocked by the Great Firewall.
http://ajinshanghai.wordpress.com/

by JustAJ on Jul 25, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I resent that...

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 25, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

sorry

No offense meant. You have to admit that is the failed philosophy thus far.

Blogging about my summer at a Chinese law firm.
NEW BLOG, as my original one is blocked by the Great Firewall.
http://ajinshanghai.wordpress.com/

by JustAJ on Jul 25, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

see:

Neal Huntington Era in Pittsburgh. Started Circa 2007. The difference is when you trade away your best players for prospects, you then don’t trade prospects back for worse veterans (see : Matt Morris trade, Dave Littlefield Era). Littlefield’s real issue was the draft though. No impact players. He actually traded for Freddy Sanchez and Jason Bay to name a few.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 25, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fwiw

I took no actual offense and like Arizona.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 25, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah I'm a close observer of the Pirates

I’m rooting for Neal to bring them back from the brink

Blogging about my summer at a Chinese law firm.
NEW BLOG, as my original one is blocked by the Great Firewall.
http://ajinshanghai.wordpress.com/

by JustAJ on Jul 25, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

The thing about the Pirates

I think they may have started to realize that changing GMs every two years isn’t a pathway to success.

Not sure if our owners that be have figured that yet…

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 25, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Firing

one GM in a season is hardly similar.

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

But I have this sinking feeling that ownership listens to knee-jerk reactions of, uh, “special” fans more than they let on. So if the next GM has a lean year or two….

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 25, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

The issue...

…is that they seem to have fired a very well-regarded GM (by baseball people) in order to satiate populist anger.

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which

is not equivalent to firing a GM every 2 years.

1 GM =/ 2 GM’s

No crying in the Snakepit. That's what your apartment is for.

by soco on Jul 27, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I feel bad for the Pirates.

Before the early 90’s, they were one of the premier organizations. So was Baltimore.

Nice strikeout!

by justin1985 on Jul 25, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm pessimistic about it because

we got a crap return.
He will probably pitch well next year. Trade him then, if you have to.
The Angels should be arrested. We got robbed.
Haren has been the seventh most valuable pitcher in baseball over the last three years.
Saunders? 52nd… of 59.
Rodriguez isn’t good.
And Corbin will most likely be rushed.
Why should I be optimistic about it?

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Jul 26, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Saunders isn't good?

he’s a lefty, which we have very few of, he’s pitched better over his last six starts, had an abyssmal start this season but overall his career performance is that he’s won twice as many as he’s lost. So just like Haren, his “peripherals” would suggest that he’s likely a candidate to bounce back or be the new victim of an offense that can’t execute and a BP that has negative mojo.

Plus we restock the system with more pitching which is appears to be a priority.

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Jul 25, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just because he is lefty

doesn’t mean he is good.
He’s 52nd/59 of all MLB pitchers in WAR.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

and just because you throw one stat

out there that puts him in a “bad” category doesn’t mean he sucks either. Is he having a good year…no, neither is Haren. You have seen his stats over the last 10 starts right? One putrid outing against the Cubs and the rest of those numbers are rather similar to the guy he was just traded for. Is that what separates an ace from a middle rotation starter? could be. Yet, they got another guy in as a SP, a AAA BP arm, a high draft pick lefty in A ball and what is being discussed as a highly touted prospect from last year’s draft as the PTBNL. considering the marketplace and the contract numbers, I don’t see this as a FAIL, ymmv.

Is it a great move, who knows, depends on the other guys involved in the deal and its not as if THIS team was challenging anyone even with Dan Haren on it.

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Jul 25, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stop that reasonable analysis!

MORE KNEE JERKING! NOW!!!!!

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 25, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not knee jerking. Saunders nor Rodriguez are good. Corbin isn’t a great prospect. Skaggs is good, but he won’t be ready until 2013.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't it?

You can label “good” and “not good” based on whatever criteria you want, but it’s impossible to tell how prospects pan out.

I’m not happy about letting go of Haren, but if in the long run some good comes from it (one of those guys pans out, extra payroll allows a good signing, etc) that would be great. Just gotta wait… Which is impossible for some people.

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 25, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

But none of those guys

are considered great prospects. This is pretty universally considered a fail. None of those prospects can replace Haren’s production.

I didn’t have to wait to know picking Loux wasn’t good. When pretty much no one likes the move, it’s probably not a good move, especially when an inexperienced GM and meddling owners are making the decisions.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

the thing is we're trying to replace Haren with quantity

Trading an ace to get an ace isn’t necessarily a smart business move because it potentially puts us in the same situation two years from now. BUT by trading an ace to get 3 mid rotation starters (instead of one top line starter) quantity outweighs quality. In theory at least.

So if this move pans out in the long run. Jarrod Parker plays ace, IPK/EJax gets to be the 2 starter and then we fill the rest of the rotation with 2 starters of #3 caliber.

That is the thought process behind this. We give up lots of value in one guy and receive back that same/greater value spread out amongst 4 guys. I don’t believe its the catastrophe everyone makes it out to be if the PTBNL is a quality prospect.

Blogging about my summer at a Chinese law firm.
NEW BLOG, as my original one is blocked by the Great Firewall.
http://ajinshanghai.wordpress.com/

by JustAJ on Jul 25, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would need to be in our opinion an A-plus deal. I think ideally what we would ask for is Major League ready pitching be it starters and or bullpen and prospects. Volume doesn’t matter, it doesn’t need to be four, five or six guys, it’s really about the quality.
-Derrick Hall, 7/22

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes volume doesn't matter

he wasn’t saying that it won’t matter. He’s saying it isn’t a necessity. I doesn’t NEED to be four, five or six guys, it’s about quality. They obviously thought they’d found their quality in four guys.

The thing you should have highlighted to disprove anything is the first sentence, because this is not an A-plus deal. Which essentially negates the entire paragraph as blowing smoke up our respective behinds.

Blogging about my summer at a Chinese law firm.
NEW BLOG, as my original one is blocked by the Great Firewall.
http://ajinshanghai.wordpress.com/

by JustAJ on Jul 25, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you nailed it

If we were an ace away from being a playoff contender, this trade would make me crazy. But our team has so many deficiencies that one player isn’t going save us. If we come out of this deal with a serviceable replacement for Haren and two or three decent #3’s or #4’s, then that gives us a solid foundation for the future.

I’ll miss Dan Haren, but I won’t miss the annual Diamondbacks’ starting rotation lottery.

by Palooka Joe on Jul 26, 2010 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

You don’t build the “foundation of a future rotation” with shingles, you build it with concrete. You can always get a 3/4 starter (look at the glut on this past offseason’s FA market). You can rarely get your hands on a young 1/2 type. And to do this deal we needed- yes, needed— the latter.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Jul 26, 2010 9:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

+10000000000

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 26, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure that this is true (at least for the Diamondbacks)
You can always get a 3/4 starter

Otherwise we wouldn’t try to fill the back of our rotation with restoration projects and hail-Mary call-ups like Billy Buckner, Yusmiero Petit, Bryan Augenstein, Edgar Gonzalez, Kris Benson, Dontrelle Willis and Daniel Cabrera. Occasionally we got lucky (Barry Enright is a good example) but “this crazy idea just might work” is a lousy way to build a team.

I’m gong to miss Haren, but this team is so completely dysfunctional that a single pitcher, even certified ace, isn’t going to get us out of our hole. And it makes me angry that we’re in this position. We’re a miserable major league team with an anemic farm system. That equates to awful baseball now and no hope for the future (although we’ve done a great job of deluding ourselves at the beginning of every season). If we can turn one of our few remaining assets into several building blocks for the future, then I’m all for it, even if it means parting with one of my favorite players.

by Palooka Joe on Jul 26, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

No,

the reason we get restoration projects and hail-Mary callups is because ownership is cheap, not because 3/4 types aren’t available.. JB had a 75MM payroll… but there’s also a crapload of deferred contracts and sunk costs in there too, so it’s pretty much a 60MM payroll. That means we have to go cheap on pretty much everything except the top of the rotation and the middle of the lineup. That means the bullpen, back of the rotation, and parts of our lineup have to be guys making the minimum. It’s very difficult to field a winning team on that budget unless most of your good players are pre arb, which they aren’t.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 26, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is a great reason

To add more prospects to our system. If they can make the majors, even as 3rd or 4th starters, then the team has exactly what it’s looking for: serviceable major leaguers making the minimum salary. That gives us a good foundation, instead of the dregs we have now. Then we may actually get some benefit from an ace pitcher.

Right now, our supporting players are so weak, that Dan Haren (or any other top-level pitcher) can’t make a difference. Even when he’s pitching brilliantly we’re still in the hole. We need a reasonably competent baseball team before we can start adding the extras.

by Palooka Joe on Jul 26, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

But that also means

we need players to support the callups. Like Dan Haren. We won’t be a very good team when we have a number two starter in Parker, two number threes, a four and five. We need an ace.

Either way, trading away a great pitcher just because he isn’t necessary for spare parts is not a good way to run a team.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 26, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

You really want to keep going with stats?

I assure you, they’ll all tell you how bad Saunders is compared to Haren.
Seriously, if you want me to, I will.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

sure knock yourself out

you go right ahead and do so. Give us the WHIP, the FIP, the SLG and OBP vs lefties and righties and then break that down by homers allowed per innings pitched and be sure to give us the tilt based on the ballparks that they pitched in and their success at home and on the road and also figure in the amount of unearned runs allowed per game and top it off; be sure to figure in the run support that each have received at home and on the road and make sure you include WAR and BABIP for each of those breakdowns to give us a comprehensive picture of the overall mastery of Mr. Haren (who I hate to see go, but that’s baseball) over Mr. Saunders.

Then you can move on to their pets names and wether or not they like dried food versus canned.

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Jul 25, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I won't do that, but...

xFIP: Haren, 3rd in baseball the last three years. Saunders, 50th.
K/9: Haren, 3rd. Saunders, 48th.
BB/9: Haren, 3rd. Saunders, 35th.
K/BB ratio: Haren, 3rd. Saunders, 48th.
Innings pitched: Haren, 4th. Saunders, 29th.
Games started: Haren, tied for 3rd. Saunders, 22nd.

I’d look at some BBRef stats too, but I don’t really know how to work that site.

Point is: Haren is one of the best in the game. Saunders is one of the worst.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

FYI

I am agreeing with everything you are saying…

The Snakes didn’t receive equitable value for what they gave up…

The Rangers gave up a top 10 prospect in Justin Smoak, for 1/2 a season of Cliff Lee…

Haren is similar to Lee and signed for next year as well….What did Arizona get? Saunders, who is on the fast track to being out of the league, AAA filler, a decent A ball prospect and one Top 100 prospect….

I refuse to believe there was not a better package out there to be had for Haren…

by Sgt. Dingleberry on Jul 26, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

okay, here are some more numbers

how many teams in MLB….

30

How many SP on average are there for each team

5

so that’s 150 MLB SP…..

so based on those same numbers that you’ve quoted, that places Saunders in the top 3rd in all of those categories, correct? Which more or less projects him as a #3 SP which is what we know that he is. Not sure how that means he’s one of the worst, but hey, if it helps to support your narrative….feel free to twist that anyway you like. I love how you numbers guys love to project these things, how about this nugget for common consumption….

both Saunders and Haren are having less than stellar years this year…any arguement with that statement? Yet based on those same trends Saunders is assumed to be on his way out of the league (per Mr. Sweeney over at SI.com) and Haren simply needs a “change of venue” because we all know what a great 2nd half performer Dan is right? Oh wait, the basic take over the last three years is that Haren is a 1st half pitcher…oh wait, that doesn’t fit into the narrative we want to present…so lets just ignore that….and it couldn’t imply that he’s losing his stuff, those bad numbers on his stats are simply anomolies and those that Saunders sports are indications of a doomed career. I think a better way to put those numbers into perspective is this, when the Angels were a better team, Saunders had better numbers….I think the same could be said for Mr. Haren, when their teams faltered, they did too.

Listen, I’m not saying that I am overly enthused about this trade, but like ALL trades that involve prospects you cannot fully evaluate it three hours after the deal is made. There is a money aspect to this deal that I am sure is involved (after all losing this painfully night after night is showing at the turnstiles) and this is likely only the first step of more than a few guys swapping uniforms and finding new addresses.

This trade isn’t about Saunders, it’s about picking up from the Angels, a 2nd round draftee who is performing well in A ball, a #1 round pick from last year who is the PTBNL, a guy who is a groundball pitcher at AAA who obviously isn’t ready for the bigs yet, but he’s not pushing 30 and a somewhat servicable guy that we can throw into the rotation now for the remainder of this debacle of a season.

Did we get enough, nfi, depends on how good the scouts did and having faith in a guy who inherited the job less than a month ago.

Here are the pitching splits for each, feel free to identify who is who.

Player A: VS. LEFT: .287 / .758 VS. RIGHT: .291 / .825 HOME: .286 / .830 AWAY: .294 / .781

Player B: VS. LEFT: .286 / .837 VS. RIGHT: .284 / .758 HOME: .279 / .785 AWAY: .292 / .799

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Jul 26, 2010 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is a Thursday 8:59

trade if you HAVE to get rid of him. They should have waited the Angels out.

No Gutierrez, Sherlock!

by Reynolds rapper on Jul 26, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's not 150 pitchers.

Those numbers are out of qualified pitchers, 59, so Saunders is in the bottom 15 on pretty much all of those.

And while you might make a snarky comment about his second half struggles… he still has three years to go. And he will rebound. You can book it. He’s managed to be on the WAR leaderboards almost every year even with his shit second half numbers.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 26, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

qualified based on what?

whose criteria?
set up to measure what?
how effective a measurement is it to be used if all SP from all MLB clubs aren’t able to qualify under these criteria?

If there are 150 starting pitcher jobs out there (and there are, I’m pretty sure that there aren’t only 59 MLB starting pitchers, on a full schedule of games in MLB there are 30 on any given night) and only just over a 3rd of them qualify for your table for analysis, should tell you something right there. If you want to bring up snark, there it is. Based on the table that you cite, you’re absolutely correct, but its obvious that not all SP are alike, some are too young, some tried and failed, some got hurt and even others retired; none of that is entered into the equation which is why Saunders is not a total POS as you imply.

the point you appear to be making is that the numbers have all the answers…the point I am making is that the numbers only tell part of the story. So based on a chart that you have accessed that only 59 pitchers have qualified for is that Saunders “sucks”. What I am pointing out to you is that is there are 150 SP jobs out there, how qualified a measurement tool is it that you are using that doesn’t take into consideration all of those other pitchers based on that most simple of items…so you get the following representation that shows just how difficult it is to be a starting pitcher in the major leagues over a length of time….

As for Dan succeeding in his new home, I hope he does, I never got the feeling that he “just went through the motions” during his tenure here. As for guaranteeing his performance, we have to wait and see, you can’t predict injuries or when the window for any performer may close. One year you have it, the next that certain something that made you special is no longer there be it the “bite” on your fastball or the amount of break on your slider and there are even those cases where someone loses it and gets it back later.

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Jul 26, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well,

considering that most teams don’t have their 4th and 5th starters set in stone, injuries, and young pitchers getting limited, I don’t think it’s a crazy table.

Here you are: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=6&season=2010&month=12

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 26, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yah...

Dan, you’re comparing Joe Saunders to Cesar Valdez.

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

in a way, yes I am

but then again I’m old enough to know that there are lies, damn lies and statistics. Judging by the numbers on the chart, that confirms that Saunders is either an awful #2 pitcher or a top flight #3. No one claimed we’re doing an ace for an ace and to baldly imply he is one of the worst pitchers in the game today (outside the current residents in our own bullpen) is a fallacy.

As for the nature of the beast…I wonder about players like Carlos Zambrano, Rick Ankiel and the like, who were cruising along, looking like beasts and then…train wreck. Projections are nice an all but there are many cases where projections have little resemblance to reality.

Honestly speaking, have you had that feeling that Haren
was unequivocally gonna get the job done this year like last year? Watching him this year, I haven’t had that feeling. Perhaps the issue lies within the teachers/instructors within the organization itself rather than the players. I get tired of the arguements offered as stating that this guy will bounce back versus this guy being a complete loss. I think the numbers don’t always tell all of the story, case in point, Chad Qualls.

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Jul 26, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Judging by the numbers on the chart, that confirms that Saunders is either an awful #2 pitcher or a top flight #3.

Uh, no he isn’t. He’s more of a 4th starter.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 26, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

not sure what you base that on

in all honesty, I don’t know where you’re pulling that statement from.

what kind of quantification are you performing to make that statement? Based on the chart that you pulled outta Fangraphs, 60% of all SP’s in the league aren’t even “qualified” enough to be ranked. So you can magically project that this places Saunders in that category?

Okay, I get it, you think Saunders sucks ass and nothing anyone can say and do will disabuse you of that notion until he wins the CY Young in 2011. .

It’s like the old joke, 4 out of 5 dentists who approve of their patients chewing gum should chew Dentyne, never mind that 95% of dentists reccommend that you don’t chew gum at all.

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Jul 26, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

His

near 5 xFIP (which is on the same scale as ERA), his crappy K rate and crappy walk rate (in relation to where his K rate is) tells me he’s not a awful two or a top flight three.

His stats tell me he isn’t a good pitcher. It’s evidence. I’ve throughly explained why he isn’t a good pitcher. What proof do you have that says he is a good pitcher? The only stats you’ve come up with are their splits, which aren’t a very good indicator of how good they are. They’re BABIP based, and thus, luck based.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 26, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

you've given me

evidence on a sample size of 59, I’m telling you that the accurate sample size is/should be 150, the actual number of SP positions in the majors. because he should be measured against the entire pool of starting pitchers, just not the ones you choose to pick.

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Jul 27, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

A way to end this...

I’m not sure where it is (Baseball Reference?), but Jim has referred several times to a study which laid out the average xFIPs for starters by slot in the rotation. I’m guessing Saunders will clearly fall in that five slot.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Jul 27, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

still looking… found this:
http://www.royalsreview.com/2009/5/8/869119/royals-rotation-fip-tra-tra+

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Jul 27, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Based on that,

a #3 starter should have at least a 100 tRA+, #4s should have a 91 tRA+, and #5s should have a 76 tRA+.

Saunders has had a tRA+ of 87 in 2009, and is at 79 in 2010. So he’s barely better than the average #5 starter this year.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 27, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Jul 27, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

found it!

http://www.azsnakepit.com/2008/10/24/639874/how-good-is-a-1-2-3-4-5-st

According to this (ERA and not xFIP, or tRA+) Saunders is a borderline #4. Sweet.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Jul 27, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeeeeah,

yay for ownership making baseball decisions!

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 27, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not doing the picking.

I gave you the link to the Fangraphs page to see for yourself above.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 27, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

What peripherals are you talking about?

Saunders’ peripheral stats this year are just as mediocre as they’ve ever been. Yes, he’s been decent over his last five starts. That doesn’t mean that you can just ignore everything he did over the previous 110 starts. As a general rule, a player’s career stat line will be much closer to his true talent level than anything that happens over a minuscule five start sample.

Also, Win-Loss record is not remotely reliable when it comes to evaluating a pitcher’s performance.

by RoyaleWithCheese on Jul 26, 2010 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

that would be a double to be named now.

haha.

Haiku are simple,
But they often don't make sense,
Refrigerator.

by blank_38 on Jul 25, 2010 6:33 PM EDT reply actions  

As for my take?

… eh. Like most, I’ll wait and see. I like the idea of a guy we needed to dump netting us a major-league pitcher and three prospects, but again, I’ll have to wait this one out. A bit uneasy.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like mouth?
The cool Snakepit.

by Wailord on Jul 25, 2010 6:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Did they at least

take a bad contract?

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 6:34 PM EDT reply actions  

On the tv side they said he was traded to the Los Angeles… pause… angels
I almost shit myself. thank you for being out of the division

"Life is like a grapefruit. Well, it's sort of orangy-yellow and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, too. Oh, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."

by operation carrot on Jul 25, 2010 6:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Same here

I was just thinking “Oh, god, either finish that sentence with Angels or let my TV die now.”

"Hey, I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"

by kishi on Jul 25, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Never good when everyone is waiting for a PTBNL to see if we like a trade.

by Augie's Army on Jul 25, 2010 6:36 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

Agreed!

(Love your username too)

"Be more concerned w/ character than reputation. Character is what you are, reputation is what people think you are." ~ John Wooden

by Rockkstarr12 on Jul 25, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

nooooo!

"Twin-headed infinite swirling vortex of grotesque suckitude known as Tony Clark and Eric Byrnes"

by sergey606 on Jul 25, 2010 6:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Corbin looks interesting...

with a very nice k;bb ratio of 106:28. And he’s a lefty….

by C. Wesley Baier on Jul 25, 2010 6:36 PM EDT reply actions  

SHUT UP, WES!

YOU AND YOUR “FACTS” AND “LOGIC”…

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did Gracie just invoke Doug Davis on the broadcast?

Comparing Davis to Saunders…oh dear, the last thing anyone needs to be compared to in a trade is DD.

by morineko on Jul 25, 2010 6:36 PM EDT reply actions  

GOOD.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

but it isn’t mike trout…..

Reckling?

by Augie's Army on Jul 25, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who said it wasnt trout?

I am Angry and when BattleMoses is angry Mr. Bigglesworth is upset,and when Mr. Bigglesworth is upset people DIE!!!!!!!!!

by BattleMoses on Jul 25, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nick Piecoro's twitter?

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Piecoro

Says not trout, but we get to pick from a list, and he is not included in it.

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they already know the name of the PTBNL

Has to be a 2009 draft pick signed after 7/25/09.

by morineko on Jul 25, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean before?

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

no, after

although if it’s now a list, that makes sense, but it may also indicate that the list involves players that can’t be traded for until they’ve been signed for a year. (Can’t trade players until they have 1 year of total service time)

by morineko on Jul 25, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

So...

a 29yo ace for a 29yo chump and some maybes from the minors. Sounds like a typical D’backs’ move. Dump a sure thing for a someday maybe. Now, the Angels have the owner we should have had and our ace. Nice. The thing that really sucks about the D’backs? Their very existence keeps me from getting to see desent baseball.

Want to know why baseball will continue to compete with hockey? This is why. Halfway through a season, if you’re not one of a dozen contending teams, you send away your best players. What do you get? “Traveled relievers,” “lower-level prospects,” and a guy whose performance dropped him from #2 to #3 or #4 in the rotation. Nice.

by azshadowwalker on Jul 25, 2010 6:44 PM EDT reply actions  

So

The existence of the Diamondbacks somehow prevents you from watching other teams?

"Hey, I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"

by kishi on Jul 25, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Undecided on this..

I wonder how they will spend the money that’s freed up by this?

by eel on Jul 25, 2010 6:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Sign Webb

lols

Bring back the Baltimore Chop!

by dima1109 on Jul 25, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shouldn’t he be ready by spring training?

by eel on Jul 25, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Someone with more knowledge than me on this..

But is this a better deal than what either of the Yankee offers (the one that dbacks wanted, and the one the Yanks wanted0? Or would u have preferred the caliber of players that could have been made with a Yanks deal?

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 6:56 PM EDT reply actions  

I like this better

I guess I’d give the nod to Joba over Saunders, but the Yankee prospect players did not excite me much at all.

by Counsellmember on Jul 25, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alright

Thanks for replying. I really don’t have much knowledge on lower level players.

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

For those of you who are unsure of this trade

Let me just say that your team got fleeced. Your GM gave up a Cy Young caliber pitcher for Joe Saunders!

However, I will say that Corbin looks good and the PTBNL might be good too.

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 7:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh well he's just an interim...

But joking aside, the best part of Harens game this year he can’t even utilize in an Angels jersey… Hitting. Both Haren and Saunders have similar ERA and W-L records.. Though I will be in the majority when I say Haren is better than Saunders, I will say we are getting Saunders, plus 3, one of the 3 being a top prospect..

I don’t know if I would use ‘fleece’ to describe it, not yet anyways.

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

He would certainly be an upgrade over some of out hitters

But yes Corbin and the PTBNL could make or break this trade for you guys. Don’t be fooled by Saunders’ numbers, he has been much worse than they indicate.

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

FIP begs to differ

A 4.70 figure, is actually an improvement over the 5.17 last season.

"It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand." -- Brian Stimpson

by Jim McLennan on Jul 25, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

You have that backwards

His FIP was 5.17 and his ERA was at 4.70

I was like what the shit? That’s not the Saunders I know

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's comparing

last year’s FIP to this year’s.
5.17 last year, and 4.70 this year.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha!

Haren’s average fastball has dropped from 95 to about 90 in the past two years, his arm is tired, and his best days are behind him.

Give me the ball.

by NASCARbernet on Jul 25, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jokes on you

pitchers don’t hit in the Arena Baseball League. You’re losing his best current skill.

Give me the ball.

by NASCARbernet on Jul 25, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

nice

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Since when was this a 1-for-1 swap with both players' contracts voided?

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 25, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s nothing I can say in response to this. This is nonsense, NASCAR.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Jul 25, 2010 10:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

+1

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 26, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

The activity, not the poster.

Just wanted to point out that distinction.

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes,

that’s what I thought you meant.
The +1 stands!

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 26, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I try

to stay diplomatic.

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Jul 27, 2010 6:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fixed that for you
Haren’s average fastball has dropped from 95 91.1 to about 90 90.5 in the past two years, his arm is tired, and his best days are behind him.

Yep, he’ll never overcome that 0.6 mph drop in velocity. Good thing DiPoto tricked the Angels into taking him!

by RoyaleWithCheese on Jul 26, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

what if the PTBNL is Mike Napoli?

I am Angry and when BattleMoses is angry Mr. Bigglesworth is upset,and when Mr. Bigglesworth is upset people DIE!!!!!!!!!

by BattleMoses on Jul 25, 2010 7:13 PM EDT reply actions  

From Jody Jackson's twitter.
Derrick Hall “great trade for us” player to b named later is “likely a starter” hope to finalize that piece in a few weeks

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 7:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Two points :

1) Saunder’s not exactly a chump. He’s a decent pitcher, probably a #3 or #4 on most staffs in the league. All-Star in 2008. He’s not Dan Haren, to be sure, but he’s not garbage either.

2) Bet that the PTBNL will be LHP Tyler Skaggs, who didn’t sign until August 7th, 2009. He was the 40th overall pick in the ‘09 draft and was highly coveted by the D’Backs.

Info on Skaggs :

http://www.halosheaven.com/2010/2/9/1302116/tyler-skaggs-top-angels-prospect-9

by garmonbozia on Jul 25, 2010 7:14 PM EDT reply actions  

I hope not

He is one of our top pitchers in the minors albeit at the lower levels.

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

And if it is...

Would you think this trade is a fleece?? I’m just trying to get your opinion, i don’t know much about your prospects.

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

For the time being yes

but 3 or 4 years down the line it could make Dipoto(?) look like a genius.

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

well isn't that what all top trades are?

in that way of thinking the Mariners got fleeced on the Cliff Lee deal

Blogging about my summer at a Chinese law firm.
NEW BLOG, as my original one is blocked by the Great Firewall.
http://ajinshanghai.wordpress.com/

by JustAJ on Jul 25, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except Justin Smoak was rated as one of the top 10 prospects in all of baseball

They Angels gave up no such players unless Trout is the PTBNL.

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

well there are only 10 of them

and all but Smoak were “unavailable” so if you’re going to trade Haren you get back what you’re deficient in. 3 contributing pitchers for the next 8 years as opposed to one for the next two years. Depending on who this last guy is makes the deal less than average to good. We’ll see.

Blogging about my summer at a Chinese law firm.
NEW BLOG, as my original one is blocked by the Great Firewall.
http://ajinshanghai.wordpress.com/

by JustAJ on Jul 25, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope this works out for you guys too

I just thought your GM was going to aim for a guy that is highly regarded like a Jesus Montero.

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we traded Snyder

Catcher.

Plus, then we could be like, “Who’s catching today?” and automatically answer “Montero.”

"Hey, I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"

by kishi on Jul 25, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll

believe Snyder is ever traded after it happens.

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the name of the PTBNL doesn’t surface in the next couple of days, you can bet on Skaggs.

by garmonbozia on Jul 25, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why?

Is Skaggs not able to be traded currently for some reason?

by Counsellmember on Jul 25, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

You can’t trade a draft pick until 1 year after they sign……teams avoid this rule by “player to be named later”

by Bellringer21 on Jul 25, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

they have to be

signed for a year after the draft to be traded.

I should have a mfin theme song.

by emilylovesthedbacks on Jul 25, 2010 7:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

So is

Omar Infante

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 25, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Every time I read this,

I cringe.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's funny

because it’s true and he sucks..

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

if i didn't know any better

my initial reaction would be “salary dump,” but since I know that’s not the case, I don’t know why this is the deal we took. Essentially Haren for Corbin and a PTBNL, with Doug Davis and a “supersize my combo for a quarter” reliever thrown in.

Go Sedona Red

by jonny-yuma on Jul 25, 2010 7:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Boo on Saunders

I like Saunders as a pitcher, but was hoping the team would go for higher upside, younger players. I suppose someone has to pitch next year, but we seem to be stock piling quite the collection of #3-4 pitchers for our big emergence in 2012. It’d be nice if we had some top of the rotation pitchers during the prime of Upton’s career.

by Counsellmember on Jul 25, 2010 7:17 PM EDT reply actions  

though

I like this better than the rumored Yankee offer.

by Counsellmember on Jul 25, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm curious about the D-backs going foward?

Obviously this is a lost season, but is the team doing a total rebuild or looking to contend next year?

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 7:20 PM EDT reply actions  

They've mentioned

That this isn’t a rebuilding effort at all.. But we will see..

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately

I think this signals that they think we can be on the periphery of contention next year, hence the Saunders part of the deal.

I’d have liked pure prospects

by Counsellmember on Jul 25, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, to be fair

If our bullpen was even average, we’d have 7-10 more wins this year. We could be a decent team in 2011.

House Of Sparky: An Arizona State Sun Devils blog
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by Cory Williams on Jul 25, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

But 7-10 more Wins still leaves us in last in the division (or close to it, I think).

We’ve got some issues to adress in AZ, and Saunders is not going to make much of an impact (I think, but hope Im wrong) when AZ starts winning again.

by Counsellmember on Jul 25, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

We’ve got some issues to adress in AZ, and Saunders is not going to make much of an impact (I think, but hope Im wrong) when AZ starts winning again.

Nope you’re completely on the mark there.

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your bullpen can't be any worse than ours can it?

We have gas-cans like Shields, Fuentes, Rodney,….well let’s just say we lack any sort of reliable arms.

It’s heart-attack inducing everytime one of those guys enters a close game.

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

No no..

If you think your’s is bad.. multiply that by… 4000. and you have ours. Haren will probably be impressed by yours.

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good thing he will come into this situation with low expectations.

Because our bullpen is also responsible for about 10 losses.

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok you win

but ours is nothing to be proud of or confident in either.

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude...

compared to our BP, yours is like a penful of Mariano Riveras.

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please look up

Qualls, Chad

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 25, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll see your Chad Qualls

and raise you a Scott Shields.

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude

Not even close
Qualls: 8.49 2.11 .373 (ERA/WHiP/BAA respectively)
Shields: 5.68 1.77 .279

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 25, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Damn

Can we do a straight up trade? lol

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

AL lineups, dude!

Shields has to pitch against the Mariners all the time! ;)

by Counsellmember on Jul 25, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yikes!

I would pull the trigger because Qualls has had more recent success. Plus the FIP is at 4.14 and the BABIP is a number I can’t even count to.

Shields should not be pitching in the majors and has single-handedly delivered more heart crushing defeats than any other pitcher on the staff.

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

And Qualls isn’t even the worst we’ve got down there.

"Hey, I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"

by kishi on Jul 25, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude

You know Valverde hasn’t pitched for the Diamondbacks since 2007, right?

"Hey, I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"

by kishi on Jul 25, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Details,

details.

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Balls

Boy do I look like a dumbass. Now I’m getting the Astros and D’backs all mixed up.

Sorry guys

D’backs>Astros better?

I took your stash.

by blochead on Jul 25, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh man

Every time I watch angels games down here, it’s either Rodney or Shield throwing the game away. I’m surprised they weren’t included in the deal.

Bring back the Baltimore Chop!

by dima1109 on Jul 25, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

*Shields

Bring back the Baltimore Chop!

by dima1109 on Jul 25, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

You obviously

Have no freaking clue about our team.

"Hey, I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"

by kishi on Jul 25, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nick Piecoro..
Scout who saw Corbin throw yesterday sees him as a future mid-rotation starter. “Enough fastball, curve that leads to swings and misses and a change-up that’ll show you enough good ones now to make you think he can develop into a solid pitcher.”

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 7:26 PM EDT reply actions  

So we gave up a legitimate ace NOW for a maybe/possibly mid rotation starter in our years. Flipping brilliant.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Jul 25, 2010 7:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

What were you expecting back from it?

Why would a team trade and ace to get an ace? We need prospects, that’s the point of this. It’s four players, at least 3 of which are pitchers. Corbin I’m reading is quite underrated, and we will be getting a top prospect. And we save money. AND ITS THE ANGELS… Not the dodgers, or yankees. lol

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good point, all

This isn;t exactly the A+ trade that was being sought, IMO.

by Counsellmember on Jul 25, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think this team

is an A+ student. I’m happy with a grade of “Making Progress”.

by Palooka Joe on Jul 26, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lets just say...

I see the short school bus in our future.

by Counsellmember on Jul 26, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why would a team trade and ace to get an ace?

Because they aren’t aces yet. Prospects are prospects. There are no guarantees that they become aces.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Read it over and over until you get it.

Prospects are no sure things. Ace ceiling prospects aren’t guarantees to become aces.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Uh... yeah. That's the point of these trades.

I don’t think you understood what I said. No team would swap aces in the middle of the season. You trade for prospects with ace quality ceilings, like what you said. It’s the risk that you take, because again like you said, it’s no guarantees…

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I did misunderstand,

but so did you. NjJohn, I believe, was saying that there’s no logic to trading a legit ace now for someone who could be a mid rotation starter in the future. Like, we should be trading for a pitcher who could be an ace in the future.

What’s the point of trading Haren for someone who has no shot of being as good as him?

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s exactly right, JDub. You don’t trade Haren unless you get a potential ace back. Case in point: we traded a potential 1/2 + 3/4 + AS OF for Haren. And what are we getting for Haren? A 4/5 + a potential 3/4 + a potential 4/5 + PTBNL.

That, my friends, is a horrible trade.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Jul 25, 2010 10:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

weren't we told

that to trade Haren, it would take an “A+” offer? Is this their idea of A+? I weep for the future if this turns out to be nothing more than a salary dump.

Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of sin.

by unnamedDBacksfan on Jul 25, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It would need to be in our opinion an A-plus deal. I think ideally what we would ask for is Major League ready pitching be it starters and or bullpen and prospects. Volume doesn’t matter, it doesn’t need to be four, five or six guys, it’s really about the quality.
-Derrick Hall, 7/22

Sure it was, Derrick.

Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 28

by Jdub220 on Jul 25, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This is total garbage

For an organization that is clearly trying to win in 2014 now, Saunders is worthless, and the other two prospects don’t even show up on baseball America’s top ten for 2010. And we’re praying we nab a decent 19 year old PTBNL. And we were supposed to get a better haul than Seattle. Check that: we SHOULD have gotten a MUCH better haul than Seattle. I am extremely disappointed and frankly will take a while to get over this trade.

I’m no fan who demands that we compete every single year, signing overpriced FA’s in an effort to win now- always. But I find it nearly unforgivable for this team to toss aside a financially attractive ace with three more year’s control for a wish and a whistle.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Jul 25, 2010 7:31 PM EDT via mobile reply actions   1 recs

The PTBNL better be a good one....

We can delude ourselves all we want but when you trade an affordable bonafide #1 starter for a #3-#4 soft-tosser like Saunders and a few low-A warm bodies (did I read one of them was ranked #22 in their organization????) are we supposed to get excited?

And Mike Trout isn’t even on the list for possible PTBNL… this trade completely stinks for us…

by The Brain part II on Jul 25, 2010 7:33 PM EDT reply actions  

I might be in the minority

But regardless of the 4th player (who is already known as a top prospect), I really like this deal.

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 7:36 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm sorry this deal has now labeled us as one of the dumbest org. in baseball

Think about it, we took Brett Anderson and CarGo and turned him into Dan Haren…. then we took Haren and turned him into Joe Saunders (who, honestly, only has a job because he’s a lefty) and TWO WARM BODIES in LOW A!???? Oh yeah, and a player from the Angels bottom half of their top 10 prospects…

Think about that trajectory for a few minutes….

by The Brain part II on Jul 25, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm..

We have been dubbed the dumbest org in baseball, by who, you? Forgive me for not taking that seriously, at all.

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Simmer down, geez

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 25, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh no.

I’m just skeptical to believe someone that has probably NO knowledge of probably anyone BUT Saunders in this trade, and yet you have dubbed us the dumbest organization in baseball.

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're Right

I don’t work the Angels organization and I’m only an armchair scout… but I promise to look into this and give my complete analysis and see if my opinion gets any better.

For you Zona… now, you can never say I never did anything for you.

by The Brain part II on Jul 25, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice

Vintage move from the Diamondhacks playbook.

"Hey, I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"

by kishi on Jul 25, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Drop

the attitude.

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder

If there was ever a move on either side to include Reynolds and Wood as part of this. It’s too much for me to think about, but I wonder if it was discussed.

by Counsellmember on Jul 25, 2010 7:41 PM EDT reply actions  

PTBNL may not be Skaggs after all

On Angels pregame, Angels GM Tony Reagins says PTNBL will be announced soon and is a “quality” player. PTBNL is a choice of 3 players.

by garmonbozia on Jul 25, 2010 7:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Skaggs isn't quality?

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 25, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is

But if they’re going to announce it soon (next few days or week?) it can’t be Skaggs, right?

"Hey, I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"

by kishi on Jul 25, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh THAT's the part that negates Skaggs. Got it.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 25, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Buster Olney

On BBTN compared this deal with the Jake Peavy to the Good Sox last year. That seemed to work well

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 25, 2010 7:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Worked

great for the Padres, yep. Maybe it’ll work out for us too, but we’ll just have to wait (which some here don’t seem like they want to).

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

The wait and see approach is always the best. If we shed some salary, that might help us in the FA market down the road, and it’s hard to say how prospects will pan out, and how far down the road.

Plus, Joe Saunders will be a HELL of a lot better in the Left-Handed starting department than Dontrelle

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 25, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dammit!

The trade was announced almost two hours ago and we still haven’t won any more games!

"Hey, I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"

by kishi on Jul 25, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

WORST

TRADE EVER

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

MAN

WE SHOULDA TRADED BABE RUTH TO FUND A BROADWAY SHOW! THAT WOULDA WORKED!

Bad doormat! No stock options!

by Clefo on Jul 25, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Today, it is a salary dump

THE question, which requires the waiting, is what they will do with that extra money going forward. Are they gonna sit on it and shrink the payroll or invest it in the team? I can wait. I’ll bitch and whine about it from time to time, but I’ll wait to see the end game.

Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of sin.

by unnamedDBacksfan on Jul 25, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rafael Rodriguez

There is a funny passage in ODD MAN OUT, the minor league memoir of an Angels farmhand, in which Rafael Rodriguez has a camera crew documenting him for a Spanish language reality television show about making it to the big leagues. The minor league manager, Tom Kotchman, goes ballistic and banishes the camera crew.

by Rev Halofan on Jul 25, 2010 7:48 PM EDT reply actions  

From the A's perspective

No clue why the Dbacks made this deal. Absolutely mind boggling. Here you have a great pitcher on a team friendly contract (xFIP of 3.38!) and he’s dealt for a mediocre starting pitcher who is about to become an expensive mediocre starting pitcher, a meh reliever, a meh C+ pitching prospect, and a PTBNL. That PBTNL better be trout, because otherwise this trade makes absolutely no sense. I mean, the Mariners got Smoak for a half season of Lee.

And now we have to face Haren =/

by Zonis on Jul 25, 2010 7:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Maybe flip Saunders?

And maybe the PTBNL is Morales????

Uggg, can we veto this trade ala fantasy?

by Counsellmember on Jul 25, 2010 7:55 PM EDT reply actions  

The Rangers traded Adrian Gonzalez for Adam Eaton!

Flip Joe Saunders to the Rangers!!!!

"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis

by Blicks on Jul 25, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Adrian Gonzalez

and Heath Bell, IIRC?

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait --

no, Adrian Gonzalez and Evil Chris Young.

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

This trade sucks

Just got rid of one of the best starting pitchers in baseball. Great. So the DBacks will “build”? You get rid of the crap on this team (Qualls, one of the strikeout twins, etc.) and bring in quality players to play with Haren. But no…The DBacks are going to do things the way the Royals have done it. Suck and turn your team into a farm system to those teams committed to winning. Big step backwards.

by markaz on Jul 25, 2010 8:12 PM EDT reply actions  

If you can give me a list of quality players..

Who we can get in return for Chad Qualls, you should be GM.

by ZonaBacks10 on Jul 25, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's not what he said at all.

Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of sin.

by unnamedDBacksfan on Jul 25, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

"crap"? "the strikeout twins"?

You mean the dudes who have combined for 13.4 WARP since the beginning of 2009? THOSE strikeout twins?

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

We should dump both those dudes and get someone who’s clutch.

"Hey, I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"

by kishi on Jul 26, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

David Eckstein

and his 2.5 WARP FTMFW!!!

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably Skaggs

via MLBTRadeRumors:
7:19pm: The player to be named later is going to be Tyler Skaggs, barring something unexpected, according to Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic (via Twitter).

by Counsellmember on Jul 25, 2010 8:21 PM EDT reply actions  

I think that makes this trade a win-win for both organizations

I’ve heard names like Brett Anderson in comparison.

Blogging about my summer at a Chinese law firm.
NEW BLOG, as my original one is blocked by the Great Firewall.
http://ajinshanghai.wordpress.com/

by JustAJ on Jul 25, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

The worst

part is that Dan Haren Field is just down the street from my house. They should have thought of the children!

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

 , There Is No Such Thing As A Pitching Prospect (for those who don’t want to google)

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who is this Edgar Jackson you speak of?

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 25, 2010 8:37 PM EDT reply actions  

He's

an abomination created in the lab of Edgar Gonzalez and Edwin Jackson.

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Argh...

as I was sitting, stuck in Detroit, I was planning on posting a comment that was a combination of these two.

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

TOO SLOW

No crying in the Snakepit. That's what your apartment is for.

by soco on Jul 26, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ain't that

Detroit all over again?

Mr. Science Boy

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously, though

you’re the only one that has used the phrase “Edgar Jackson” in this thread. Do you have the right tab open or am I missing something?

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's in the post

Jim refers to Edgar Jackson being in the 2011 rotation.

"Hey, I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"

by kishi on Jul 25, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't

see that at all, so I guess Jim edited that in?

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably

Around the time he added the poll, I’d imagine.

"Hey, I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"

by kishi on Jul 25, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

I don’t have a poll either, so there you go.

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I must say

the pure anger from the Rangers fans is pretty hilarious, even if it makes me feel like ass about the trade.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like mouth?
The cool Snakepit.

by Wailord on Jul 25, 2010 8:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I wouldn't

be surprised if that’s a prime motivator for any A’s fan that may have dropped by to complain the trade. Not a great trade for Arizona, necessarily, but I bet the other AL West fans are really glowering right now.

Quit drooling, vote for me.

by soco on Jul 25, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Question I have....

could this make the way for another deal? since we have a ML Starter in the deal… they had been reluctant to trade both Haren & EJax… Tampa from what I’ve read really wants EJ.. (if you can’t beat em… trade for em) will this clear the way for something possibly there?

I’m going to reserve judgement on individual trades… and go overall to see how we do….