AZ Snakepit: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: College Football Preseason Top 25 Rankings

Weekend Round-up: Cubs want to club Cactus fans, extension talk for Reynolds and more fan events

Nocubs_medium"We would love for the Cubs to stay - just not at the expense of our fans. The other 13 teams in the Cactus League feel the same way."
  -- Derrick Hall

Been a while since we've done one of these, and there are a good number of things worth mentioning. There's discussion of a contract extension for Mark Reynolds, Webb feeling better, news of a couple of potentially-interesting events as we head towards next weekend's Fan Fest, Derrick Hall's digestive tract, and a disturbing, if Photoshopped picture of Randy Johnson.

Details of all these can be found after the jump. Warning: if you couldn't tell from the logo on the left, it's probably going to get a bit ranty. Get a coffee and a sandwich, there's a lot to read - and not all about the Cubs!

Star-divide

Details of the plan to finance the Cubs new palace in Mesa have come out. And the plan put forward is, it appears largely to let us baseball fans in Arizona foot the bill. According to a bill introduced in the Arizona Legislature this wee,  $59 million - more than two-thirds of the estimated cost - would be funded by increased taxation statewide, both on car rentals, and a surcharge on all Cactus League tickets. Yes, folks: it's not enough that the Cubs used extortion with menaces to bludgeon the Mesa lackies into this deal, by threatening to move to Florida. But as soon as next season, the tickets you buy to a Diamondbacks-Rockies game at their new, entirely privately-funded complex in Scottsdale, could be helping to pay for the Cubs' new facility.

Ah, but a report - commissioned by Mesa, so in no way likely to be prejudiced or biased, of course - claims that the departure of the Cubs would cost the state "over $137.8 million dollars" and 1,581 jobs. The report, however, does not say how many of those jobs involve serving alcoholic beverage to the Cubs fans. Probably around 1,570 or so. I'm also not quite sure how they leap to the conclusion that Cubs fans alone spend $75 million here annually. Even charitably assuming that every single person in attendance at HoHoKam - avg. attendance last year, 10,690 - would simply evaporate if the Cubs left, that works out at more than $7,000 per fan, purely on in-state spending, excluding things like flights. It doesn't add up.

The study also conveniently forgets how many Cubs fans already live here. As anyone who has been to Chase for their visits can attest, for such a rabid fan-base, it's amusing how many of them abandoned the city they supposedly hold so dear. The report contains no evidence at all on the number of attendees who actually come in from out of state. Nor does it take into consideration those who would come anyway, to see relatives, say, or simply to escape the shitty Chicago weather. The potential loss of a few hundred minimum wage McJobs is hardly good enough reason to start gouging everyone who attends Spring Training.

But even if we accept the questionable numbers here, there is absolutely no justification given for why we should have to pay, in order to keep the Cubs in Mesa. Going by the bevy of suitors for the AZ/COL facility, and if it actually is the cash-cow its proponents claim, there would surely be no shortage of alternative locations elsewhere in Maricopa County. These would a) give the Cubs the new facilities they apparently desperately need, b) keep their fans (and more importantly, their dollars) here in the state of Arizona, and c) not require one cent to come out of the taxpayer's pocket.

For what was the shortfall in our state budget last year? $2.43 billion, projected to rise to $3 billion in 2011. And yet idiots like House leader John McComish are proposing to raise taxes to fund a practice park for a professional sports team, when we can't even keep open our state parks? You can understand why fiscally-responsible franchises are unimpressed. It's almost enough to make me wish I could vote, simply so that I could recall the jackass. And never mind the irony that a team playing in a ballpark which was built before the Great War, regards the 12-year old facilities at HoHoKam as 'outdated'.

Hey, Cubs! Let's make a deal. Prove you deserve public funding, because otherwise you're just acting like a bratty kid, demanding a new car, when their report card is full of D's and F's. So, win the NL pennant. It's not so hard. That's something 14 of the other 15 clubs in the league have done since the last time you managed it - including seven that didn't even exist the last time the Cubs went to the World Series. I'm not even asking you win there (you haven't managed that in the entire lifetime of Arizona as a state, so let's not expect too much), just get to the final showdown  and then we can talk about us funding your shiny new stadium.

And moving on, appropriately, from the Cubs to bleeding ulcers. For club president Derrick Hall made an appearance on local cooking show segment, 12 News Valley Dish last week, and announced that about 18 months ago, he'd been diagnosed with no less than ten of the pesky critters, and had given up eating red meat as a result. Hmmm... 18 months ago? I suspect the cause of the ulcers was perhaps less the diet, than the 52 one-run games in which his team were involved that year. While it's great that he's now healthy, I suspect that more important than forgoing steak, was the decision to trade Jose Valverde at the end of that season. I think this move saved everyone who watched the team a few ulcers...

Is Mark Reynolds going to be the next player the D-backs lock up long-term? He said on Friday that talks are underway: "There are talks. There's years being thrown back and forth right now. No money yet, but it could be anywhere from a two- to three-year deal with a couple of options is what I hear. I think the week of the 15th, there's going to be some formal offers made." Reynolds missed being eligible for arbitration tis year by about a long weekend of service time, so his arb years will be 2011-13. Nick Piecoro doodles numbers on a beer-mat and speculates we could be looking at "a three-year deal in the $14 million-$15 million range." Here's hoping Mark doesn't fall victim to the Curse of the Contract Extension, whose victims include Chris Young, Chad Tracy, Eric Byrnes and Chris Snyder.

Webb_medium

The above pic of Brandon Webb playing long-toss, is courtesy of Steve Gilbert, taken with his Blackberry at yesterday's open practice session at Chase Field. He reports Webb reckons he'll be ready for Opening Day, and also has some other interesting tidbits, such as the off-season arrivals in both the Reynolds and Haren families. Also worth a read is his interview with Ken Kendrick, which by coincidence appeared on the same day as the first part of my discussion with Josh Byrnes, so sheds another bit of light on the Diamondbacks' front-office. In particular, he explained the funding for LaRoche. "We thought it was worth making the stretch and spending the extra money. There were a couple of other possibilities, and we were going to be able to do one of them. The LaRoche thing came, and we liked it, and Josh wanted to do it, so we did."

Nick Piecoro also chips in on Webb, our hopeful #1 telling him yesterday that he's looking forward to the bullpen session on Tuesday - even if it's only going to be five minutes or so in length, he'll be throwing off a mound for the first time in about ten months. "I’m excited to get back on the bump... I’m ready to go... It’s going to be a gradual thing still. Today was really good. I feel like I’m building up every day. I haven’t really thrown for a whole year. Even if somebody didn’t have surgery, if you lay off for a whole year it’s going to take a little bit to get your arm strength back and stuff." He hasn't yet broken out the curveball, but has thrown some change-ups.

FanFest next week, which reminds me, must put in my request for a day off for that. However, it is not the only change for fans to meet major-leaguers this month. The night before FanFest, next Friday, Wild Horse Pass Hotel & Casino are hosting an autograph event inside the Ocotillo Ballroom from 6:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. Those taking part will include Mark Reynolds, Miguel Montero, Ian Kennedy, A.J. Hinch and Daron Sutton. There's no admission charge, but you do have to be 21 or over to attend. You can bring one item per person for the participants to sign, but photography will not be permitted

And the Saturday after FanFest (Feb. 20th), the inaugural Spirit of the Game event takes place at Surprise Stadium from 5-8pm. There'll be more than twenty players from 13 clubs present - Diamondbacks, past and present, include Blaine Boyer, Micah Owings, Damion Easley...and Russ Ortiz. I guess the last-named hopes the statute of limitations has expired on his Arizona contract. Instructional clinics will be offered, and  open to kids of all ages and available on a first come, first serve basis. Other activities include autograph stations and a kid’s zone with interactive games . Food will be available for purchase. It's free, but bring a non-perishable food item to be donated to St. Mary’s Food Bank, and you'll have a chance to win one of the door prizes. Bring two, and you'll have something to throw at Russ Ortiz. May I suggest a can of tomatos? Anyway, visit the website for more information.

Fangraphs.com had a couple of interesting pieces. One reviews our 2006-09 drafts, and the other talks about our top 10 prospects - though the latter list deliberately does not include any of the 2009 draft picks, presumably due to the shortage of minor-league data on them. However, that does also leave our farm system looking perilously thin in that report, though they acknowledge that eight of this year's picks could be in the current top ten. And in ex-AZ player news, Yusmeiro Petit was DFA'd by Seattle, as a result of their signing of Erik Bedard

And, as we are almost approaching 2,000 words for this piece,  I think that just about wra... Ah, you thought I'd forgotten, didn't you? The Seattle Times has a piece where it uses the Sorting Hat from Harry Potter to decide which cap certain players should wear into Cooperstown. It's quite an amusing bit of writing - and also good to see someone from that corner who does agree that Johnson should go into the Hall of Fame as a Diamondback [regardless of him throwing out the first pitch in Seattle on Opening Day] However...I could certainly have done without the Photoshopped atrocity of the Big Unit in a wizard's hat that accompanied the piece. It's gonna take a great deal of mental bleach to wash that image from my mind.

Have a good weekend. Back Monday with the bullpen preview, and Wednesday with part two of the JB interview.

1 recs  |  Comment 63 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

No kidding

I think James Cameron needs to make a 3D version of that thread… Sure-fire Oscar winner, this time next year/

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Feb 6, 2010 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting

“TIcket or elsewhere, the money is coming from the people visiting”

I guess I hallucinated all those games I went to last season.

"....who in good faith and without too much qualification assented to at least a part of the frankly villainous dictum that all is fair in love and war."
-Ambrose Bierce

by kishi on Feb 7, 2010 3:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Also

If the Cubs bring in so much cash to the area with their games, then I’m sure they shouldn’t have a problem if they wanted to find private financing. So why don’t they?

"....who in good faith and without too much qualification assented to at least a part of the frankly villainous dictum that all is fair in love and war."
-Ambrose Bierce

by kishi on Feb 7, 2010 3:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh, you mean like the Diamondbacks did, right?

Except for the $30 million in federal stimulus money that’s helping to build their new ST complex.

That’s private money, right? Oh, wait.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Feb 7, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

The difference being

It is intended for exactly that purpose: economic stimulus of native American business. No additional tax is being implemented and levied, purely on fans of other baseball teams, in order to raise that money.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Feb 7, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Kind of disingenous, isn't it?

The benefit doesn’t just go to the tribe, it also goes to the Diamondbacks and Rockies.

The proposed surcharge would go to a fund that benefits all Cactus League teams, not just the Cubs. Reinsdorf and Hall are wrong. I’ll post about this tomorrow @ BCB.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Feb 7, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Not so sure that's the case
The bill seeks to raise $59 million over 20 years to pay off bonds that would be issued by the Arizona Sports and Tourism Authority to build the Cubs complex.

Link

It appears to be a very specific surcharge for a very specific purpose.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Feb 7, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I read that.

That in no way implies that it would be exclusively used for the Cubs complex. Read my post tomorrow. (Shameless promotion.)

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Feb 7, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

And on the benefit thing
The benefit doesn’t just go to the tribe, it also goes to the Diamondbacks and Rockies.

Nope. They won’t see a penny of the money, and get exactly the same stadium, regardless of where the cash comes from. The only beneficiaries are the tribe, who get the draw of a $100m facility at a reduced cost to them of $70m [Numbers approximate]

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Feb 7, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

At the very worst

The stadium doesn’t get built there. That was only one of a number of proposals submitted to the team. But I would certainly applaud the team for choosing the option that imposes no additional tax burden on anyone.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Feb 7, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Except, wasnt the tribe’s offer/proposal done way in advance of any stimulus spending? I could be wrong, but I thought this is the case. I guess I should check.

by Bcawz on Feb 8, 2010 11:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, I suppose I am wrong. The official news release from the Dbacks and the tribe is in July (16th), while the Recovery and Reinvestment act was signed in February 17th. Shows how much I know.

by Bcawz on Feb 9, 2010 12:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Turns out

The tribe declined the federal funding and went with a private loan instead. So this claim was incorrect.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Feb 9, 2010 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

And the Diamondbacks are the local team, so your point being????

Naples is 300 miles closer to Chicago, I’d think you would jump at the chance to have the team move…..
I know I am…. Jumping at the chance to have your team moved, that is.

Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt

by unnamedDBacksfan on Feb 7, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Cubs fans have been through this quite a bit over the last month or so.

The overwhelming majority of the fanbase supports staying in Arizona.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Feb 7, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

What is your

personal opinion? Have you been to any ST in Florida? I hear the drives can be horrendous.

Arizona only has two major metro areas. Padres tried Yuma ages ago and made the smart call to move.
It makes sense that the DBacks and Rockies move now that the Sox bolted from Tucson; all the teams are an hour away from each other. I would prefer the team stay in Tucson, but it wouldn’t really work with just one other team there.

Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt

by unnamedDBacksfan on Feb 7, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Really, Al?

You would consider using a federal package designed to boost the economy on the reservation to be the equivalent of raising taxes in a state where they’re already shutting down state parks, slashing education funding, and considering heavy firings in the fire and police departments due to massive budget problems?

By extension of that train of thought, I probably shouldn’t be involved in the conversation at all- I mean, I’ve got government funding helping me go to college, so who am I to question where tax dollars go?

"....who in good faith and without too much qualification assented to at least a part of the frankly villainous dictum that all is fair in love and war."
-Ambrose Bierce

by kishi on Feb 7, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

No, it's not an exact equivalent.

However, both are designed to bring tax dollars and economic growth to a specific region or group.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Feb 8, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Discussion has been ended
Comments are closed on this thread, because…
… people apparently couldn’t behave like grownups.

by Al on Feb 6, 2010 7:32 PM MST reply actions 1 recs

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Feb 7, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, I closed comments, because...

… that was getting ridiculous. I’m going to have another post up tomorrow with some of the truth of this issue… truths that are NOT covered in this post.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Feb 7, 2010 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Look forward to it

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Feb 7, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

It's up and posted

Here. Discussion is ongoing, and remaining mostly civil so far. Despite my presence. ;-) Though I had to bite my tongue at the guy who proclaimed he didn’t consider us “to be a real team.” I almost posted a picture of the 2001 World Series trophy in response… Otherwise, so far, so good!

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Feb 8, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

what Soco says, right below

Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt

by unnamedDBacksfan on Feb 8, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

not a bad discussion this time

One re-occurring theme is ‘attendance’ again. When the Diamondbacks (the home team) play up here, they sell out visiting stadiums left and right. I can’t even get SRO tickets at Diablo when the DBacks play there.
You take away all the Chicago refuges that have moved here, and the Cubs attendance is right on par with the rest of them.
IMO, the Cubs are not the cornerstone of the Cactus League and am very willing to gamble on that fact. If I can find a way to register to vote in Mesa, I’ll do it just to vote on this. Heck, I’ll even offer my Blazer to pack up and move the CUBS sign to Naples.

Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt

by unnamedDBacksfan on Feb 8, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

If Al likes this
Interesting take on this via azcentral.com

“You can observe a lot just by watching.” ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Feb 8, 2010 1:14 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

then he should LOVE Dan Bickley

Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt

by unnamedDBacksfan on Feb 8, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Hopefully, when the cubs

moves, westerncubbie will turn into easterncubbie

Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt

by unnamedDBacksfan on Feb 8, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

F The Cubs

An early departure? What are the chances of that? If this was a movie, there wouldn't be an early departure.

by soco on Feb 6, 2010 10:00 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

And the city of mesa.

Used to live there. Pretty shitty.

What's your name? Sandwich. What's your first name? TUNA.

by emilylovesthedbacks on Feb 6, 2010 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I am torn on the Cubs issue

I have been a cubs fan my whole life, but they are being assholes about this. Hohokam is a decent stadium, much better than a few of the existing ones (Phoenix Municipal, Hi Corbett, and way more centrally located than Goodyear or Surprise)
Also, I live in Mesa (during breaks from UA) so I am happy they are staying, plus considering how bad Mesa is doing financially losing the Cubs would be no bueno. The city does pay my parents’ salary so I may be kind of biased, haha.
It is ridiculous that everyone going to a cactus league game has to pay for it though.

by UAwildcats on Feb 7, 2010 5:29 AM EST reply actions  

Srping Training Surcharge

It will be interesting to see how far the idiots that run both baseball and the state of Az can go before they kill the goose that lays golden eggs. A buddy of mine at work arranged for us to go to a couple of spring training games at Diablo – tickets for two games totaled $45. My season tickets to the D-Backs in the lower deck cost less than that.

I make good money and am a lifelong baseball fan, but those prices – for a game between a bunch of minor league ballplayers that aren’t even trying to win – are ridiculous. This could be my last year to go to spring training games.

by Craig from Az on Feb 7, 2010 9:01 AM EST reply actions  

Indeed

Arizona treats tourism as the gift that keeps on giving – “Hey, we’ll just increase the car rental tax even more than the 17.5% it already is.” Obviously, for politicians, it’s an easy alternative, as visitors don’t get to vote. But you can only squeeze tourists so far, and the sharp drop in tourism last year is partly why the recession has hit Arizona among the hardest states. The golden egg analogy is pretty accurate.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Feb 7, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

That's very true.

The car rental taxes are pretty outrageous. But easy to pass, because the people who vote for them don’t have to pay them.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Feb 7, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

So if I read this right

…They won’t even consider raising taxes to bridge the gap with the deficit, nor even allowing it for a public vote, but they’ll bend over for the Cubs?

That makes sense.

by Clefo on Feb 7, 2010 12:33 PM EST reply actions  

Gotta keep all

those Old Milwaukee swilling clowns happy!

But, let’s close our State Parks, Let’s gut ejumication to the very bone and then some.

If it were not for all the Chicago area refugees living here, the cubs attendance falls into line with all the others.

And I could swear I see the same effect of DBack fans filling visiting parks to capacity when the team plays here in the valley. Silly me though, what’s an upstart franchise when compared to the storied history of failure that is the cubs?

Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt

by unnamedDBacksfan on Feb 7, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope

you’re reading it wrong, but I don’t see how.

Is it possible to use the process to get the state to make its education payments on time?

"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson

by Scrbl on Feb 7, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

It's eerie.

So are the Cubs really that oppressed in HoHoKam that they need a new $59 million spring training facility? I’m not much of a stat buff nor am I keen on the all of the details but I’m lost on the idea that Mesa “needs” to build a new stadium in order to stay economically fit.

The Cubs rejected a HoHoKam renovation proposal in September. Will a new stadium generate that much additional revenue to make it worth $59 million of taxpayer’s money?

I really wouldn’t mind having a surcharge in ticket prices if it meant that all teams could feed off of it. If the tax was used to fund whatever renovations or new complexes for the entire league, I’m all for it. The concept of funding just one team and one stadium doesn’t sound very appetizing to me. If we’re going to help the Cubs than let’s go ahead and help Oakland and Milwaukee as well.

Wear your own fur.

by Sprankton on Feb 8, 2010 1:35 AM EST reply actions  

I believe by the time this is done...

… such a surcharge WILL be in a fund to help all teams.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Feb 8, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Says who?

I’ve read nothing of the sort.

Wear your own fur.

by Sprankton on Feb 8, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem is that

a tax on spring training is largely self-defeating for the reasons that the State of Arizona is using to justify keeping the Cubs. The case for keeping them revolves around the fact that they draw more than any other team. However, if a ticket at Surprise (or anywhere else) goes from 20 to 25 dollars, then almost certainly there will be a 10-20 percent drop. People aren’t going to be willing to pay more for already expensive games that DON’T COUNT.

by Reynolds rapper on Feb 8, 2010 11:37 AM EST reply actions  

Foreshadow

You raise an interesting point – if this is how they’re going to treat Cactus League fans, one can imagine that this is also how the new ownership is going to treat Cub fans in Chicago, viz-a-viz big ticket price increases and requests for special tax considerations at the cost of local Chicago and Illinois taxpayers.

by NASCARbernet on Feb 8, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

There was a comment at Bleed Cubbie Blue about how the White Sox owner bailed on their contract, but they expected the Cubs to hold to their deal. It seemed like a very sweeping, very naive statement to assume that the brand new Cubs ownership wouldn’t try to blackmail a new facility out of the county when it’s, say, 13 years old since that’s what they just did.

"....who in good faith and without too much qualification assented to at least a part of the frankly villainous dictum that all is fair in love and war."
-Ambrose Bierce

by kishi on Feb 8, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

shake your fist at a cubs fan

It's Dracula as I approach the bottle.

by edbigghead on Feb 8, 2010 9:11 PM EST reply actions  

I'm gonna give him the frowning of a lifetime too.

"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson

by Scrbl on Feb 9, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Things I've learned from reading the comments of Cubs fans
  • The Cubs count as two teams when it comes to attendance and revenue for baseball.
  • No one comes to see the Diamondbacks play in Spring Training.
  • Cubs fans apparently account for more tickets than are actually sold in the Cactus League.
  • Hohokam Stadium is a horrendously out of date stadium that should have been destroyed years ago, possibly before it was even built in 1997, and is nowhere near as good as stadiums that were built as recently as 1994.
  • Despite this, Mesa will have no problem finding a team willing to move from Florida to play in the Cubs Cast-off Field.

"....who in good faith and without too much qualification assented to at least a part of the frankly villainous dictum that all is fair in love and war."
-Ambrose Bierce

by kishi on Feb 9, 2010 1:42 AM EST reply actions  

People

be dumb.

An early departure? What are the chances of that? If this was a movie, there wouldn't be an early departure.

by soco on Feb 9, 2010 8:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Visit more often

It is like that all the time.

by ol Pete on Feb 9, 2010 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

To be fair

Some of the worst comments came from AZ Central, which is one of the more depressing cross-sections of humanity I’ve ever had the poor fortune to come across in all my time on the internet.

"....who in good faith and without too much qualification assented to at least a part of the frankly villainous dictum that all is fair in love and war."
-Ambrose Bierce

by kishi on Feb 9, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

No question, AZ Central is far worse.

I enjoyed that debate on BCB. It was mostly civil and pretty informative. Of course, there was a few idiots, but I’ve seen much worse on other SB Nation sites, shall we say.

Oh, and just got a piece of hate mail from a Cubs fan regarding this piece. I’ll be posting that one on Friday. It’s most amusing.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Feb 9, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, always fun

Nothing like hate mail over a completely reasonable piece.

"....who in good faith and without too much qualification assented to at least a part of the frankly villainous dictum that all is fair in love and war."
-Ambrose Bierce

by kishi on Feb 9, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL

Man, we gotta defeat this and send them packing to Naples.

Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt

by unnamedDBacksfan on Feb 9, 2010 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

The explanation for why other

clubs are coming out against it is not hard to understand.

Higher prices for the teams means on non-Cubs days, teams like the Brewers get killed by less attendance. So it’s they can stay and take 5-10 percent attendance off of the top but get ONE Cubbie date that’s 4,000 seats over average attendance (which won’t offset the loss) or let the Cubbies go, have all dates at your average and have people be able to afford a ticket.

Probably a fair amount of ST traffic is local, so the powers that be want the Cubs because of the additional monies in tourism, restaurants, PBR sales etc.

So it is an interesting juxtaposition of interests.

by Reynolds rapper on Feb 10, 2010 12:19 AM EST reply actions  

Brewers are only contracted through next year I believe. I’m sure Florida would like them to come on over. They probably don’t want to but I’m sure they’ll consider it.

I agree with soco’s sentiment above.

by ol Pete on Feb 10, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

The Brewers lease

in Maryvale runs thru 2012. Given that Bud Selig was pressuring the Cubs to get a deal done with Mesa, I think it is fair to assume that the Brewers are pretty committed to the Cactus League.

Also, the Brewers have the worst attendance in the Cactus League, so it is unlikely that cities in FL would go after them…certainly not with the fervor that Naples has in pursuing the Cubs.

Maryvale is a nice little ballpark, perfectly fine for the Brewers. With a few tweaks and upgrades, I’m sure suit them for years to come.

by azjazzman on Feb 10, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Statues aside, I’m not sure how much Selig influences their choice. Proximity to their owner and better weather are probably more important.

I get the impression that they’re unhappy with the Maryvale neighborhood and the ballpark. They’ve shown a willingness to move on from minor league locations when they aren’t satisfied with those things. The fervor that Naples is showing may work against them staying long term if it results in a Cubs tax and an attitude that says Maryvale is good enough for the Brewers.

by ol Pete on Feb 10, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Maryvale USE to be

rather a nice place to live back in the day. I lived at one time at 59th and Thomas and again at 37th Ave and Osborn. Loved the area and the people then. Today? I’ll live there again in a fortified castle, nothing less.

Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt

by unnamedDBacksfan on Feb 10, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

There is a wonderful promotional film

called “The Homeowner” made by John F. Long in 1962 promoting the new Maryvale neighborhood. It features Buster Keaton as a prospective home buyer and his slapstick adventures as he checks out the model homes, the shopping centers and the neighborhood.

It presents Maryvale as a near utopia in a state of the art (for 1962) planned community, which in truth, it was. It is sad to contemplate that this showplace neighborhood is now considered a run-down, crime ridden, gang infested area.

My understanding is that Maryvale has improved in the last few years and there are plans for further investment in urban renewal if and when the economy improves. I have read about this in the paper, but not seen it myself, as I live on the east side and don’t get over to that part of town very often.

by azjazzman on Feb 10, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Works for us

It’s like most places: there are good and bad pockets. We’re only here semi-temporarily [looking to pick up one of the cheap foreclosures in the likes of Laveen], but our neighborhood is pretty quiet most of the time. It’s amazing how quickly things like that can change, for better or worse.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Feb 10, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

when I was on 37th and Osborn, the neighborhood was older with many retirees. When they either passed on or moved away, the people who came in behind them were the down fall of that neighborhood. A lot of homes were turned into rentals, which is also a way to kill the neighborhood.

Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt

by unnamedDBacksfan on Feb 11, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

The investor group

that purchased the Brewers from Selig are all friends/cronies of Bud’s. Trust me, he still wields considerable influence.

Would be interested in seeing support for the assertion that the Brewers are unhappy in Maryvale. I do not get that impression at all, and if they are experiencing “professional jealousy” like the Cubs, the difficulty the is that they do not have near the leverage the Cubs have.

by azjazzman on Feb 10, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Attanasio is the main owner

I never had the impression that he was a crony of Selig. I’m not even sure why Selig would press them to stay rather than go to the Grapefruit League.

I don’t know about professional jealousy, but enacting a tax on them to provide a deluxe facility for the Cubs isn’t a positive. If the tenor of communication is anything like ‘Maryvale is good enough for you’ i’m sure they’ll consider moving along with the positives that that entails including being closer to their Latin American facilities.

by ol Pete on Feb 10, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the AZ SnakePit, the SB Nation blog about the Arizona Diamondbacks. "The tough times are the ones that truly show you who you are. " -- Barry Enright
Start posting about the Diamondbacks »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Wailord_by_xous54_small
The Dan Haren Trade of Yesteryear
Golden_dome_small
Thoughts on the Summer of 2010

Recent FanPosts

Small
In a Perfect World.......WAR Revisited
Square-watermelon_small
The Only Team with 5 Players above 3 WAR?  Arizona.
Lg4_small
Vintage Base Ball - Practice on Saturday
Augiesuperman1_small
By Request: The 2010 Arizona Diamondbacks Walk-Up Songs
Small
Resigning Webb
Small
SKAGGS hitting 95-96 on the gun ?
Cap_small
Arizona 7, San Francisco 9 - The Dog Days Are Over
Baseball_small
ESPN Hates on AZ again....
Small
Webby Alert! Webby Alert!
Small
September Call-Ups

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SBNation.com Recent Stories

ATLANTA - APRIL 22:  Omar Infante #4 of the Atlanta Braves celebrates after scoring against the Philiadelphia Phillies at Turner Field on April 22, 2010 in Atlanta, Georgia.  (Photo by Kevin C. Cox/Getty Images)

Albert Pujols, Joey Votto, And The Triple Crown Villains Who Plot Their Ruin

Washington Nationals' Nyjer Morgan, center, is led off the field after a brawl during the sixth inning of a baseball game against the Florida Marlins, Wednesday, Sept. 1, 2010, in Miami. (AP Photo/Wilfredo Lee) +4 updates

Nats, Marlins Brawl After Nyjer Morgan Charges Mound

Photo

Aroldis Chapman Touches 104, Earns First Win As Reds Rally Past Brewers

More from SBNation.com >


Manager

Newavatar_small Jim McLennan

Bench coaches

Me_-_sp_studio_small snakecharmer

Lg4_small soco

Us1jack_small DbacksSkins

Players

Useitorloseit_small kishi

Ilikemony_small Zephon

Wailord_by_xous54_small Wailord

Keith_haring2_small Sprankton

Golden_dome_small IHateSouthBend