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How do you mend a broken sports heart?

Pretty silly question: 

 

As those who know me can tell, this off season has become the "Break mrssoco's heart" off season, where I can't help but think that they lurk my blog, find who I like and then axe em as soon as possible. (This tin-hat goes with my eyes, don't you think?) 

 

But I'm not experienced with this! And soco's helpful, "That's the game" attitude aside I am really pretty bummed. If Byrnes signs with the Brewer's I might just be doomed. What's going on here folks? I don't even know half the players and the players I do know interest me about as much as a room full of flattened cardboard boxes. How do you manage that? In your past experiences what have you done to mend an albeit silly but sports related broken heart? How do you stay with a team that you love with all your heart when the players that matter to you aren't there anymore? 

 

What are some of the players/ seasons (for any sport) that have left you feeling the team "blues"?

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I could say something

but I’m sure I’m the last person on Earth you want to hear from.

Personally, I can’t wait for the season to start.

Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt

by unnamedDBacksfan on Jan 24, 2010 12:43 AM EST reply actions  

hell with it, I'll give you my opinion

because at the end of the day, that team is what goes out and represents our city to the world. It is the team I support, not individual players. There are many I like and follow and root like mad for, but they do not trump my loyalty to the team.

Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt

by unnamedDBacksfan on Jan 24, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the opinion

The weird thing is that I can do that in most sports. We lost Elliot Perry (Suns player for all of like four games forever ago) who I was head over heels for and I wasn’t that phased. Rarely do I let it get to me anymore. (Though RAJA BELL. OMG RAJA BELL.) But it just feels like our team was gutted. Other than perhaps three players are either too new for me to feel anything towards and the rest are just random people who I couldn’t pick in a line up.

I root for this team, but a part of me is just like, “WHO IS THIS TEAM?” you know?

(And by the way, I have no problems with other people’s opinions. Seriously.)

Give me a second, I can bring this back to Trent Oeltjen.

by mrssoco on Jan 24, 2010 2:03 AM EST up reply actions  

What?

Four games? We’re talking about Elliot “Socks” Perry here. That dude was awesome.

"It's a real burden being right so often."

by kishi on Jan 24, 2010 2:17 AM EST up reply actions  

As if I needed another reason to love you.

Elliot “Socks” Perry was my very favorite and I remember being so heartbroken when he left.

Give me a second, I can bring this back to Trent Oeltjen.

by mrssoco on Jan 24, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

omg

I remember crying about this when I was younger.

ALOT younger obviously

Pedro Cerrano: Jesus, I like him very much, but he no help with curveball.
Eddie Harris: You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

by PhoenixFly on Jan 29, 2010 4:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Probably

the two big ones for me as a kid were Hasek leaving the Sabres and Flutie leaving the Bills. It sucked.

An early departure? What are the chances of that? If this was a movie, there wouldn't be an early departure.

by soco on Jan 24, 2010 2:09 AM EST reply actions  

Oh Flutie

I wish I could go back and hold your hand (even though we probably would each have to go back in time and get cootie shots. Just in case.)

Give me a second, I can bring this back to Trent Oeltjen.

by mrssoco on Jan 24, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

How

young do you think I was in 2000?

An early departure? What are the chances of that? If this was a movie, there wouldn't be an early departure.

by soco on Jan 24, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Fifteen?

But you still had cooties.

I was an advanced 16 year old.

Give me a second, I can bring this back to Trent Oeltjen.

by mrssoco on Jan 24, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember the first time I had my heart broken by a roster move

It was Rich Karlis, the guy who was kicker for the Broncos when I was little. He was pretty much the coolest player in the entire NFL for one reason- the guy kicked barefoot. I can’t even imagine what it must have been like to go out on the frozen field in Denver to kick a field goal in December or January, though one must consider the possibility that my mom had to at least once discourage me from going out to the backyard to find out. But he was awesome, and that was only increased by the fact that I actually got to meet him one time and get his autograph, on a black-and-white picture that quite possibly still resides in a box in my parent’s garage to this day.

And then, they didn’t re-sign him one year. I was still pretty young, and up until that point, as far as I knew, you played with a team until you’d retired. So it was confusing as hell for me to see him go. The Broncos made it to the Super Bowl that year, but with some kicker I couldn’t even name to you right now, and there’s still a part of me that’s convinced that Rich Karlis would have made the difference in that game. (The Broncos lost 55-10, it’s highly unlikely.)

Anyway, so what’s my point here? (Yeah, come on, kishi, wrap it up!) Well, pretty much, you don’t. That feeling never really fully goes away for me- that part of me that still feels a twinge when we trade someone or let someone go. Maybe it means I take my sports too personally, but eh, I don’t care. But it’s kind of like any other relationship. You just have to move on, and eventually you’ll find other players to cheer for- I mean, a year ago, you’d never even heard of Trent Oeltjen, right? So who knows who else might be on their way up that you’ll get attached to. Just give it time, it’ll happen.

"It's a real burden being right so often."

by kishi on Jan 24, 2010 2:16 AM EST reply actions  

Didn't

Jason Elam kick barefoot, or am I misremembering?

An early departure? What are the chances of that? If this was a movie, there wouldn't be an early departure.

by soco on Jan 24, 2010 2:26 AM EST up reply actions  

No, he didn't

As far as I know, Rich Karlis was the last barefoot kicker in the NFL.

"It's a real burden being right so often."

by kishi on Jan 24, 2010 2:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Mang

I could have sworn there was some kicker in the 90’s that only wore one shoe. Apparently not.

An early departure? What are the chances of that? If this was a movie, there wouldn't be an early departure.

by soco on Jan 24, 2010 2:46 AM EST up reply actions  

hmm, I'm with ya

I thought there was one too.

Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt

by unnamedDBacksfan on Jan 24, 2010 2:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Looking around

I’ve found a guy who went barefoot in kick-offs in 1997, but he didn’t do field goals, and a guy who was barefoot for seven games in 2000. But that guy played for the Rams, and it seems like cheating to do it in a dome.

"It's a real burden being right so often."

by kishi on Jan 24, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

that’s what I found, but for whatever reason I remember it being a guy who played for a cold weather team.

An early departure? What are the chances of that? If this was a movie, there wouldn't be an early departure.

by soco on Jan 24, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

There was a player in the CFL, apparently, but I can’t find anyone else.

"It's a real burden being right so often."

by kishi on Jan 24, 2010 5:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Me neither

BUT I SWEAR I REMEMBER THIS

GRAAAAAAAAH

An early departure? What are the chances of that? If this was a movie, there wouldn't be an early departure.

by soco on Jan 24, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

David Treadwell, another former Bronco...

I could swear kicked with one shoe on and one shoe off too

"AUGIE AUGIE AUGIE...OY OY OY!"

by Rockkstarr12 on Jan 29, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

The relationship is a PERFECT metaphor. Except it’s like an arranged marriage. Where Josh Byrnes promises you Leah and gives you Rachel. Over and over again. (Yeah, I just made a religious joke. Uh. Nerd.)

But it does feel like we are meant to make a relationship with the team players, they shove each of them in our faces and then just trade away half the team in the off season? I don’t think I’ll ever get to a point where that doesn’t hurt. But you know I get too invested in it personally. ;)

(Weird thing, Oeltjen bugged me because hello he’s AUSTRALIAN and Byrnes broke me because he’s my Eric and I knew the merry jig the board was going to do on his grave for NO REAL REASON… but what really broke my heart in two? Doug Davis. When we first started watching we went to all these games where it was Davis opening Valverde closing. It was like this … habit. And he went into cancer treatment right before our wedding so we asked for (and gave) donations to the 49 club in his honor. He’s … Doug. And now he’s gone. It really really really is breaking my heart.)

Give me a second, I can bring this back to Trent Oeltjen.

by mrssoco on Jan 24, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Rich Karlis!

OMG did I have a thing for him back then too…it broke my heart seeing both he and Jason Elam leave the Broncos, along with David Treadwell…devout Broncos/Cards fan here So I know how you feel!

"AUGIE AUGIE AUGIE...OY OY OY!"

by Rockkstarr12 on Jan 25, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sort of lucky

in that I didn’t start following baseball or the dbacks seriously until last season…and thus am not particularly attached to various players who were entertaining and good in the past, a la byrnes

that being said, i can definitely understand where you are coming from…i grew up watching jake plummer play football at asu (dad always bought season tickets) and when he took the cardinals to the playoffs for the first time since i was born (another team that i often had season tickets for as a kid) i was insanely excited

after he started playing for the broncos, they became sort of a second football team that i would root for (thank god they are not in the nfc) and to this day, i still tremendously tremendously despise jay cutler because he ended up getting drafted by the broncos (not cutler’s fault obviously, and clearly an irrational thought on my part) to replace plummer when i thought plummer was still capable of being a good qb in the nfl

another example is the suns….i am an unabashedly bandwagon suns fan and i can honestly say that the only reason i ever started watching the suns was because of steve nash. some of my fondest memories of high school were going to the local pizza parlor after class ended and watching numerous suns playoff games (that always ended in tragedy….) with my close friends…..and we’d all be screaming like crazy when nash hit a clutch three. i honestly think that when watching sports, certain athletes can just be so amazing that it feels like you are watching an artist at work (i get a similar feeling when watching peyton manning, or federer) and nash to me is the premier basketball artist…even though his skills have declined, even this year (in my opinion, though his stats have been insane) … and i know he will eventually have to retire, i will definitely feel immensely sad when that time comes

by mfan2010 on Jan 24, 2010 3:46 AM EST reply actions  

I was a Suns bandwagoner the first time around with Charles Barkley but my sister was the Barkley girl I was Kevin Johnson all the way. Now he… is a priest I think? And then I followed them around like a puppy in love until Raja Bell. Oh my gosh, Raja Bell. Not only was I in love with his playing, I loved his off court personality and … well. He was cute. But never the less. I thought he, Stoudemire and Nash were the trifecta of AWESOME on our team and then… well. Jason Richardson happened. And while the other guy we got in the deal is good I will ALWAYS resent Jason Richardson for getting traded to our team for Raja. Always!

Give me a second, I can bring this back to Trent Oeltjen.

by mrssoco on Jan 24, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

KJ

is the mayor of Sacramento. True stories.

An early departure? What are the chances of that? If this was a movie, there wouldn't be an early departure.

by soco on Jan 24, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Really?

Huh. The more you know.

Give me a second, I can bring this back to Trent Oeltjen.

by mrssoco on Jan 24, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

(Why, yes, I do keep this in my Photobucket account for just such a usage, why do you ask?)

"It's a real burden being right so often."

by kishi on Jan 24, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Following Reading

Is as much of a rollercoaster as I can handle, the two relegations were probably the hardest, especially from the Premier League, knowing you might never get back :(

Time for another drink then?

http://www.wimbles.wordpress.com

by Wimb on Jan 24, 2010 7:50 AM EST reply actions  

When soco first explained

The fact that your team doesn’t have a set place and goes between LEAGUES at will I think my heart broke for all football fans everywhere. That is just CRUEL! I mean, the Dbacks have had some bad years but if suddenly we were AAA instead of Major League? Yeah. Talk about heart break.

Give me a second, I can bring this back to Trent Oeltjen.

by mrssoco on Jan 24, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

It's bad...

But it makes the promotions all that more sweet :) sometimes you need to go down to come back stronger, I doubt the Pirates and Royals fans would mind going down if it gave ownership etc a kick up the arse :D

Time for another drink then?

http://www.wimbles.wordpress.com

by Wimb on Jan 24, 2010 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I think part of this problem

Is that we’ve hired quite a few guys I’d loosely classify as “mercenaries.” You know, guys one one or two year deals who will then go to wherever gives them the most money. Adam LaRoche, Kelly Johnson, Aaron Heilman, and Edwin Jackson all strike me as that type of guy. Perhaps Bobby Howry as well, although he appears to be a guy who plans on staying close to Arizona, where he lives. And some of the guys who we gave up or unloaded were either guys under contract for a long time who we felt could be true Diamondbacks (Max Scherzer, Daniel Schlereth, Trent Oeltjen/Alex Romero to a lesser extent, maybe even Scott Maine), or had been with us for a long time and were favorites (Eric Byrnes).

But the reason you can’t get revved up about this team is simply that you haven’t had an opportunity to watch them, if you ask me. Maybe it’s me, but I imagine the new personalities on this team meshing fairly well with the old ones, as everyone (except possibly Heilman, who still won’t get a chance to start) we’ve acquired appears to have glowing reviews as people (I’ve heard good things about Jackson, LaRoche, and Johnson, and Howdy and Kennedy are guys returning closer to home, so I can only imagine they’ll be happy). If we can see that kind of camaraderie, we’ll find a way to get attached.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by Dan Strittmatter on Jan 24, 2010 12:08 PM EST reply actions  

That is a fair point

Timm and I plan on going to a spring training game or two and maybe I will end up feeling differently. I mean, I didn’t even like Scherzer that much. (I know I know, I’ll duck the any fruit thrown my way) but it has felt a little like we were taking apart the team and deciding we might as well start from scratch. Which does give us ample opportunity to start and find new players to fall for but I can’t help but wonder how long it will take for me to get behind the new team and actually rally rather than just be like, “Go Ghost of Teams past, Go!!”

Give me a second, I can bring this back to Trent Oeltjen.

by mrssoco on Jan 24, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

It's actually the opposite of giving up and rebuilding

The Scherzer trade is a big sign that they’re thinking “let’s make a move now and deal with the repercussions later.” At least, it seems so to me.

"It's a real burden being right so often."

by kishi on Jan 24, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

That trade

and the LaRoche deal, seem to me that JB is in win now mode. Rightfully so, if we only have Webb one more year.

Nice strikeout!

by justin1985 on Jan 24, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

in that seeing new players is the quickest way to accept them.

An early departure? What are the chances of that? If this was a movie, there wouldn't be an early departure.

by soco on Jan 24, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Totally forgot to mention Davis

In the long-time favorites.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by Dan Strittmatter on Jan 24, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Favourites

Geez, I’m old enough to have thousands of favourites. Let’s see, Otto Graham from the Brown’s has always been my favourite QB. Lou Brisse a pitcher with the Indans my pitcher, Luke Easter, another Indian my first baseman, Larry Dobey in Centre, Al Rosen at third, but the list goes on and on. Today, Mig behind the plate, Young in Centre, Jackson in Left, Upton in right hoping he will get his head on right. Nuts so many guys who come and go it is hard to keep track. Back when I was a kid players had to stay with their teams until they were traded or released. That was wasn’t right, but you knew the guys on your team and didn’t worry about them being gone.

by JV Co on Jan 24, 2010 1:00 PM EST reply actions  

I long for those days

as i am much more loyal and supportive of the home grown talent than most of the rentals brought in.
IF all the rentals were the caliber of RJ, it might be a bit different for me, but we aint the yankees.
Even then though, there is just something special about watching the home grown talent come up and get their shot at the big league.
I think we lost a golden opportunity to really connect the fans with the team as we never really played up this point the past few years. Sure, it was mentioned as a group thing, but I don’t really see a focus or marketing campaign built around certain young, home grown players. It would have been lot easier to do when our Triple A was in Tucson

Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt

by unnamedDBacksfan on Jan 24, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

There are examples from when I was much younger,

but I’ve watched the Suns since 89-90, which includes some interesting down times (although I was fortunate to be too young to remember the whole drug scandal, and catch KJ and Majerle and Hornacek and Chambers on the upside). I was also there for the Suns when they started Rodney Rogers…and Tony Delk…and Jake Tsakalidis…and…

Sometimes mending a broken heart is tied to team success more than individual. Like the 92-93 Finals. Or the early years of the Nash era when we were as good as any team in the league, but lacked the fortitude (some would call that “luck” or “anti-David-Stern-meddling”) to make it the distance. I suspect something similar will happen when Nash is done as a Sun, although it’ll be much less of an issue if he retires with Phoenix and not, say, the Knicks.

by Azreous on Jan 24, 2010 1:45 PM EST reply actions  

As for the Diamondbacks

It didn’t ruin my day or anything, but I wasn’t a fan either time Randy Johnson left, and I didn’t like the way Gonzo went out. I know those opinions separate me from some other folks here, but to each his/her own.

by Azreous on Jan 24, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

The NBA lost me

directly as a result of “Horry-gate.” It was so blatantly obvious that the league (David “Suckie-face” Stern) had an agenda other than allowing the best team to win, that it forever lost me. It was a calculation on his part, although the real motivation behind it still isn’t clear. Gambling probably.

For me, the first fan ‘heartbreak’ came when the Suns traded DJ for Rick Robey. Now, I know most people here don’t remember that, but the effect was Robey was gone by the next season and DJ was the missing piece to the Celtics’ Larry Bird Dynasty. For those who don’t remember, think of Dennis Johnson as a Raja Bell with more brains, talent and a complete skill set.

by NASCARbernet on Jan 24, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

hey,

Tony Delk put up 50!

AND he wore number 00.

one of my favs.

Pedro Cerrano: Jesus, I like him very much, but he no help with curveball.
Eddie Harris: You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

by PhoenixFly on Jan 29, 2010 4:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Gonzo and Councell going wrenched my heart badly.Luckily Reynolds came along to make up for it.My first loss was Best leaving United,oh the horror.But mostly,I follow the team and in most cases can still follow the player too where ever they ended up.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the darkness at Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

by hotclaws on Jan 24, 2010 11:11 PM EST reply actions  

Happily, Gonzo is back to frolic and play front office

and Counsel’s career continues, so those are good things. I hadn’t thought of GB in a long time. What a tragic story.

by NASCARbernet on Jan 25, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Gonzo and Counsell's leaving...

Was heartbreaking for me. I cried watching their farewells on the field at that very game…but alas, along came two men who put my heart back together again…one is gone now (Jeff Salazar, now with the Orioles organization) and the other? My beloved Augie Ojeda! I still love these guys to pieces, along with Gonzo and Counsell :)

"AUGIE AUGIE AUGIE...OY OY OY!"

by Rockkstarr12 on Jan 25, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

When bertrand berry retired i know it only happened a few days ago but

he was the second football player i really liked after warner im sad he wont be coming back

by BattleMoses on Jan 25, 2010 2:25 AM EST reply actions  

speaking of Warner

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH DONT RETIRE

ONE MORE YEAR ONE MORE YEAR

This is one of those that would hurt for the fans AND the team.

Pedro Cerrano: Jesus, I like him very much, but he no help with curveball.
Eddie Harris: You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

by PhoenixFly on Jan 29, 2010 4:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Warner’s retirement, though understandable, would be a real kick in the gut for an organization that is finally heading the right direction.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Jan 29, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Growing up on the avenues of the Valley of the Sun

prior to the arrival of the DBacks, I rooted for Cal Ripken Jr. I remember riding the school bus and heard on the radio that he finally took a day off, I was sad. But I tried to put a positive spin on it and took the next day off of school. Needless to say, the excuse “If Ripken can take a day off, I can break my perfect attendence” didn’t fly with the parents.

On a serious note, when he retired I was bummed. But I have an autographed Rookie Card to keep me company.

My imagination is greater than your nay-say.

by Jargamus Prime on Jan 26, 2010 3:03 PM EST reply actions  

I too grew up

on the avenues. I was a Braves fan when the only baseball on TV we got in Phoenix was the Cubs/WhiteSox on whatever channel that is and the Braves. I even had a tomahawk for when I did it up choppah style.

It's Dracula as I approach the bottle.

by edbigghead on Jan 26, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Back in the day

When Chicago and Atlanta were your main sources for live baseball, thanks to TBS and WGN.

"It's a real burden being right so often."

by kishi on Jan 26, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I have a ton

of David Justice cards. That’s normal though right ?

It's Dracula as I approach the bottle.

by edbigghead on Jan 26, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Same here...

All we could get in Colorado before the Rockies came along

"AUGIE AUGIE AUGIE...OY OY OY!"

by Rockkstarr12 on Jan 29, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

(question for you, Rockkstarr: do you write everything in the title section or do you just bold everything you write in the regular section?)

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Jan 29, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sorry!

I don’t mean to bold everything…chalk it up to a habit I am trying to stop?

"AUGIE AUGIE AUGIE...OY OY OY!"

by Rockkstarr12 on Jan 29, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahhh… look how pretty those thin letters are! :)

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Jan 29, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

:) Much better?

"AUGIE AUGIE AUGIE...OY OY OY!"

by Rockkstarr12 on Jan 29, 2010 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Royals' losses

I’ve felt more pain with this as a Royals fan than as a DBacks fan. Most of the DBacks losses: RJ, Schilling, Gonzo, Counsell, etc if not the move I would have necessarily made, at least had some rationale behind them.

I’ve felt much more pain as a Royals fan: Bret Saberhagen, Kevin Appier, Tom Gordon, Carlos Beltran, Johnny Damon, and Jermaine Dye were just some of those whose departure left wounds.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Jan 29, 2010 3:30 PM EST reply actions  

Saberhagen

I liked him a lot too…even when he was a short-lived Rockie

"AUGIE AUGIE AUGIE...OY OY OY!"

by Rockkstarr12 on Jan 29, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought Saberhagen came back to the Royals for his last season? Hmm, Im thinking of someone…

Nice strikeout!

by justin1985 on Jan 30, 2010 2:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Saberhagen

No, his last year was spent as a member of the Red Sox…2001

"AUGIE AUGIE AUGIE...OY OY OY!"

by Rockkstarr12 on Jan 31, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Eric Byrnes to the Mariners

mrssoco, this is good news for you and for me. My daughter can take over the inexplicable love for Byrnes that we have/had.

Nobody on the road Nobody on the beach
I feel it in the air The summer's out of reach

by 4 Corners Fan on Jan 29, 2010 7:55 PM EST reply actions  

I thought of her too when I just got word of that. I have a friend in Seattle who is really excited to see what he can/will bring to the Mariners’ table

"AUGIE AUGIE AUGIE...OY OY OY!"

by Rockkstarr12 on Jan 29, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

a circus.

Nice strikeout!

by justin1985 on Jan 30, 2010 2:15 AM EST up reply actions  

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