Tony Abreu heading to AZ?
Steve Gilbert relays the speculation that Tony Abreu is the PTBNL in the Jon Garland trade.
Nick Capur is also suggesting that Abreu makes the most sense.
over 2 years ago
Marc Fournier
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Saw that.
If so, then I really like this trade.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Look at it like this, people,
especially those of you who were running down the trade last night.
We just traded one month of Jon Garland’s services, in a season in which we were already going nowhere, for the Dodgers’ 5th or 6th best prospect.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
For a guy
Who is very Orlando Hudson-esque (sans the glove).
Wear your own fur.
by Marc Fournier on Sep 1, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
(and mouth)
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
not true. we traded garland + $3+M for the dodgers 5/6th best prospect.
"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton
But
we were going to have to pay that no matter what, even if Garland didn’t pitch a single inning the rest of the season. It’s sunk cost. The only thing we’re actually losing that we wouldn’t have lost anyway is the services of Jon Garland for the rest of the season.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Sunk, sure. But not wasted. It’s not as though Garland isn’t worth $7.5M next year. Do you disagree? I think there is no way we could get Garland to come back to AZ next year at less than $7.5M. And I’d be happy to have him back.
"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton
I'm not convinced.
I’d rather have Davis for the same amount.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
It’s not an either/or necessarily. I’d rather have both. And the beauty of Garland is that he’d be a one year deal. Davis is going to have to be 2-3 year deal.
"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton
But the beauty of DD
Is that he’s left-handed.
My brother: Did you see the genre of this song [Wake Up by Arcade Fire]?
Me: Isn't it Alternative?
My brother: No, it was funeral. Most depressing thing ever. I s*** you not. Go look it up.
Me: ::checks iTunes:: That's the album title.
by Dan Strittmatter on Sep 3, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand you can only get the prospects you can get, but I look at this deal and I wonder what we’re thinking about our starting rotation. If Webb doesn’t return, it’s going to be in shambles. Even more so if Double D doesn’t return. I just don’t see how the upgrade Abreu may (or may not!) be over Ryal/Roberts is worth the assurance of having a guaranteed $7.5M legitimate 3/4 starter.
"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton
That is,
if Garland and the FO both wanted him to be pitching at Chase again next season. I don’t think either of the two sides were completely sold.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Well, if Garland didn’t want to come back, that would have been good news for us, as his buyout would have been less.
"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton
But we'd have gotten nothing for him.
Paying $1 for nothing is worse than paying $5M for an upper-level prospect.
My brother: Did you see the genre of this song [Wake Up by Arcade Fire]?
Me: Isn't it Alternative?
My brother: No, it was funeral. Most depressing thing ever. I s*** you not. Go look it up.
Me: ::checks iTunes:: That's the album title.
by Dan Strittmatter on Sep 1, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
but the buyout would have been much less. so it wouldnt have been nothing, exactly.
"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton
Ummm...
I said that paying that extra $4M for a good prospect with lots of control left is worth it. The buyout for no player return (a.k.a. nothing) is worse than $5M for the prospect.
My brother: Did you see the genre of this song [Wake Up by Arcade Fire]?
Me: Isn't it Alternative?
My brother: No, it was funeral. Most depressing thing ever. I s*** you not. Go look it up.
Me: ::checks iTunes:: That's the album title.
by Dan Strittmatter on Sep 1, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d probably agree if it were a prospect at a position of need (namely SP).
"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton
We have a gaping hole at 2B...
You trust RyRo (not far away from his 30’s and having an out-of-his-mind year) and Rusty Ryal (career minor-leaguer who is older than Abreu and has not put up as good of numbers as Abreu in the minors)?
My brother: Did you see the genre of this song [Wake Up by Arcade Fire]?
Me: Isn't it Alternative?
My brother: No, it was funeral. Most depressing thing ever. I s*** you not. Go look it up.
Me: ::checks iTunes:: That's the album title.
by Dan Strittmatter on Sep 3, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Bear in mind
That we would have control over Abreu through, what, 2014? So, even if 2010 turns into a rebuilding year, we have a piece that can help the team for many more to come.
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
2010 is looking more and more like a rebuilding year
and I don’t see a real conclusion to the process.
I need to see a chart of when the various members of the ‘core’ hit free agency.
Depends on what you feel the "core" is.
Is Stephen Drew still a part of the core? The only guys I’d currently identify in the lineup as a part of the “core” are Reynolds, Upton, Montero, Parra, and Allen. Drew appears to be on his way out with guys like Ciriaco shooting up the organization.
My brother: Did you see the genre of this song [Wake Up by Arcade Fire]?
Me: Isn't it Alternative?
My brother: No, it was funeral. Most depressing thing ever. I s*** you not. Go look it up.
Me: ::checks iTunes:: That's the album title.
by Dan Strittmatter on Sep 1, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
For the way he was hyped,
Droo seemed like be might pay off last year, but has annoyingly regressed this year.
Another overrated Boras client? (Hmmm… reminds me of J.D. Drew. Coincidence?)
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
I still believe in Drew
His injury really hampered his year to start but his stats since his return have pointed to some positive growth. His OBP is 60 points higher than his BA, which means start hitting consistently and he’s an on base machine. I’d say the real Drew is somewhere in the region of 2008 Drew and not 2009 Drew.
Go DBacks!
Eh....
did you read the August article, yet?
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
yeah but I'm still not convinced
I don’t know where he started August at, but looking at his season total I’m still certain that he’s still developing into something above average.
Go DBacks!
Fair enough, but also bear in mind that this may well cut the cord on the Ryan Roberts experiment. That’s not necessarily an experiment I think ought to be over.
"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton
I don't think it'll cut the cord
It is more possible we could see some kind of platoon – Abreu is a switch hitter, but seems to hit RHP better than LHP, while Roberts kills lefties. We will need a backup at short and third too, and Roberts can probably cover those positions too.
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
you really think they’ll carry three players on the roster whose primary position is 2b?
"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton
I'm not sure
RyRo has a primary position…
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Not anymore, really.
And I was under the impression he came into the season as a 3B.
My brother: Did you see the genre of this song [Wake Up by Arcade Fire]?
Me: Isn't it Alternative?
My brother: No, it was funeral. Most depressing thing ever. I s*** you not. Go look it up.
Me: ::checks iTunes:: That's the album title.
by Dan Strittmatter on Sep 1, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably not.
Ryal would seem the odd-man out at this point, especially since I’m not sure an .874 OPS in Reno qualifies him for the big leagues – that’s less than Whitesell (.905) and about the same as Oeltjen (.863), neither of whom delivered. But we’ll see what goes down.
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
Perhaps
Rusty will show less regression from Reno to the bigs, though. I’m fairly certain we’ve seen the folly this season of expecting a player to replicate at Chase what they’re able to do in Reno.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
It does not.
He can play outfield and emergency catch. It 100% officially cuts the cord on Augie (it was already at about 80%). Which I really don’t mind.
My brother: Did you see the genre of this song [Wake Up by Arcade Fire]?
Me: Isn't it Alternative?
My brother: No, it was funeral. Most depressing thing ever. I s*** you not. Go look it up.
Me: ::checks iTunes:: That's the album title.
by Dan Strittmatter on Sep 1, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I will keep my real opinions to myself
As (shockingly ;)) I’m not baseball savvy enough to back my feelings up but I do have to point out that now we can all look forward to five seasons of soco calling out “ABREU BREU BREU.”
So there’s that.
BRING BACK THE PRETTY TRENT!
For once my views have nothing to do with looks/accents
On either side actually (Garland or Abreu), shocking I know.
BRING BACK THE PRETTY TRENT!
He is good looking, yes
But to be perfectly honest he just kind of looks generic to me? Like for a really long time I would hear that he was pitching but then I would see him pitching and wonder who he was? Abreu I have seen a grand total of three pictures of and one of them was him with the “mid pitch concentration” face that I don’t even think Oeltjen could make look good but he seems to be decent looking as well. (He is not Randy Johnson! Um. No offense to any RJ fans out there but I don’t really think that many people are pining for RJ.)
BRING BACK THE PRETTY TRENT!
RJ?
C’mon. I’m sure there are SOME people who have a tall toad fetish.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
+1
"I forgot I have short term memory loss." Kate
by 4 Corners Fan on Sep 1, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Egads
This guy plays for Vegas? Dammit, shoulda made the trade like three days ago.
Warning: the above represents the thoughts and opinions of a 15-year-old. Be afraid.
well considering the crowd ar the 2nd sack
it could be that he’s a piece of another move as well. If Ryal and Roberts and now Abreu are all available, then it’s most likely good bye Augie, not that there is anything wrong with that.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
Really
I think Augie was going to be shown out the door with or without Abreu.
"I can't accept and won't concede that this is who we are..."
Granted,
with his own bobblehead. (Unless they never actually get here)
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Yeah, I agree
He was great the past few Septembers for us, but RyRo has really stepped it up this year. Nice guy… but I think it’s time to move on.
Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco
The consensus
seems to be that goodbye Augie has been inevitable for awhile now.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
I guess so
it’s been in the cards, but rarely spoken of. Would i be correct in saying that most didnt see Augie apart of the Dbacks future, but most would not have been shocked if he stayed on in some role or another?
"Yeah I could have been king, but maybe I already am king. Hail to the king baby." Ash from Army of Darkness
If we're talking about an on-field role
I’d be a little shocked. Augie will be 35 before the start of next season, and he’s got an OPS+ of 73 since he joined the DBacks in 2007. His defensive numbers have declined each year, too.
"I can't accept and won't concede that this is who we are..."
I meant more of a bench role, not a permanent field role
"Yeah I could have been king, but maybe I already am king. Hail to the king baby." Ash from Army of Darkness
Though I guess even that might have been a stretch goin forward
"Yeah I could have been king, but maybe I already am king. Hail to the king baby." Ash from Army of Darkness
I meant anything on field
If he wants to join the team as a scout or something, sure, but I don’t really have a great urge to see him playing for us at all next season.
"I can't accept and won't concede that this is who we are..."
Next year will be very interesting to say the leasst
So many unanswered questions
"Yeah I could have been king, but maybe I already am king. Hail to the king baby." Ash from Army of Darkness
Sounds good.
He hasn’t been an awful pickup, for a guy who was signed to a minor league deal before the 2007 season. He’s been a serviceable role player. (And he’s awesome because he’s short)
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
What is the problem with Roberts?
I don’t understand — he is hitting almost .300 with an OBP shy of .400, after basically forcing himself on the team after a monster spring training. Is Abreu simply an upgrade from Augie?
Um....
I’m afraid the best possible analogy for RyRo might be “Augie on steroids”…. Roberts is an upgrade from Augie.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
People seem to forget quickly
When a guy is demoted for piss-poor performance. Yeah, he came back with a vengeance, but I don’t want to trust any job with complete certainty to a guy who was demoted to AAA due to suckitude. It’s a career year at his peak season of 29, enjoy it now, but prepare for when it ends.
My brother: Did you see the genre of this song [Wake Up by Arcade Fire]?
Me: Isn't it Alternative?
My brother: No, it was funeral. Most depressing thing ever. I s*** you not. Go look it up.
Me: ::checks iTunes:: That's the album title.
by Dan Strittmatter on Sep 1, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
You don't
“earn” a starting 2B job in 2010 by performing credibly out of nowhere in 2009. (Unless you think CY earned a starting CF job this year)
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
yeah after all
CY has been living on his 2007 numbers all the way thru this year ;-) I keed I keed
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
With an OPS+ of 114
He would be an upgrade on most hitters… This is the first season he’s been given anything like regular playing time in the majors [previous high: 13 AB]. What does concern me is a triple-A OPS, over four seasons and 1,379 PAs, of only .803, below what he has produced for us this season. His .339 BABIP likely isn’t sustainable, so I’d chop 20-25 points off his batting average going forward.
I think, properly used, he’d be worthwhile, but we need someone who can handle RHP – Roberts’ OPS is almost two hundred points lower against them.
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
Also keep in mind
He’s 28 – this is physically his peak season, and the depreciation begins next year.
My brother: Did you see the genre of this song [Wake Up by Arcade Fire]?
Me: Isn't it Alternative?
My brother: No, it was funeral. Most depressing thing ever. I s*** you not. Go look it up.
Me: ::checks iTunes:: That's the album title.
by Dan Strittmatter on Sep 1, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Good article on aging curves here
http://camdendepot.com/analysis_infield_age_curves.html
IHSB looks to be about right in terms of defense. Hitting may be even earlier – they are usually speedy, slap-hitting types, whose skill set does not improve well with age – but the best article I found on that is at Baseball Prospectus and is subscription only.
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
Where do you come up with this stuff?
Do you have a “Magician’s Hat” button on your internet browser that magically produces the stats you’re looking for? Geez… :-P
My brother: Did you see the genre of this song [Wake Up by Arcade Fire]?
Me: Isn't it Alternative?
My brother: No, it was funeral. Most depressing thing ever. I s*** you not. Go look it up.
Me: ::checks iTunes:: That's the album title.
by Dan Strittmatter on Sep 3, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but there wasn't a government program
that allowed us to trade Augie in for a model that had better mileage and was more fuel efficient ;-)
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
Peak years for all team sports (and a few others i.e. tennis) at all positions
Are mid-to-late 20’s. The few exceptions include kickers, punters, pass-first point guards, and pocket-passing QBs. There may be a few more but I can’t remember them off the top of my head.
My brother: Did you see the genre of this song [Wake Up by Arcade Fire]?
Me: Isn't it Alternative?
My brother: No, it was funeral. Most depressing thing ever. I s*** you not. Go look it up.
Me: ::checks iTunes:: That's the album title.
by Dan Strittmatter on Sep 3, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoa... deja vu
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Ken Rosenthal
Is hinting that we may get more in the deal. This from mlbtraderumors:
A rival exec Rosenthal spoke to feels that Tony Abreu is not enough for Jon Garland, since the D’Backs are picking up all of Garland’s contract.
Wear your own fur.
Is
Rosenthal actually “hinting that we may get more in the deal”, though? Or is he saying that another executive says we just got gyped by the Dodgers?
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Well,
I was mostly asking about the context of the quote.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Interesting...
Does a trade have to say “two players to be named later” for there to be two players?
My brother: Did you see the genre of this song [Wake Up by Arcade Fire]?
Me: Isn't it Alternative?
My brother: No, it was funeral. Most depressing thing ever. I s*** you not. Go look it up.
Me: ::checks iTunes:: That's the album title.
by Dan Strittmatter on Sep 3, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
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