Chris Young still in the lineup??? WOW
by yumacardinalsfan on Aug 8, 2009 9:36 PM EDT
88 comments
I am so blown away by the fact that Young is still taking cuts and wasting at bats night after night after night. I am a huge fan of the Dbacks and really dig how well the team has been doing as of late. I believe there is a long shot at possibly getting into wild card contention if they can play really solid baseball. I also believe AJ Hinch has not done do bad of a a job as the skipper except for one aspect.. WHY IS YOUNG STILL BEING GIVEN CHANCES TO PROVE HIMSELF. After hitting sub 200 almost all season, we can all agree that he is truly a 200 hitter at this point of the season. He is a major flop that is an expensive flop, but still please just let him go. Defense is not reason enough to stay in the big leagues. That position can be filled by 5 other guys that at least wont hang their heads and mope after striking out or popping up. Does anyone feel that he can still be a productive player? I know I dont. Lets see more of the Australian
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Hope springs eternal, I guess....
btw, I’d duck if I were you.
"If there's nothing wrong with me, maybe there's something wrong with the universe!"
by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 8, 2009 9:39 PM EDT reply actions
Umm
He’s just 25 (unlike Byrnes, who sucks AND is old). And not even two years removed from a 30-25 season. Let’s not be so quick to give up on him? He was on fire until he had that leg injury. It’s frustrating, but we’re not contending (lay off the meth pipe). Keep him in an outfield platoon (especially with Upton hurt) with Aussie, Parra, and Ichiromero. Give him half of a season next year after an off-season of work/injury recover and a Spring Training before calling his rookie season a fluke and writing him off.
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
Well...
I’m not sure I’d describe a .204 season batting average as “on fire”… He had a good two weeks, sure – but that doesn’t make up for the long months of constant suckage.
Frankly, I think he’d be bettered served spending the rest of the season down in Triple-A getting every day playing time, rather than getting occasional starts up here. I’m not writing him off beyond this season. However, at this point, I think he has probably lost his starting spot for Opening Day 2010.
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
by Jim McLennan on Aug 8, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
He had an OPS above .900 in June before the injury...
That’s pretty good.
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 5:58 AM EDT up reply actions
He was
certainly taking more walks. That’s good.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Not just 30-25.
32-27, with a chance to become… what? The first ever 30-30 rookie, IIRC? He was also a guy that was widely predicted to win ROTY that season, too.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
When Young comes up to bat
its like they should just mark an out and have him take a seat.
I laugh until my head comes off.
Strange timing for this post, Yuma. I think most of us would gave agreed a week ago given the play of Parra, Upton, and Romero. But with upton down there is no reason to bury CY, especially given the fact that he’s younger than TO— and not to mention the fact that the guy a bunch of us wanted to supplant CY in center next year, Parra, botched his duties pretty badly in his recent audition.
"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton
by njjohn on Aug 8, 2009 11:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yuma
just joined the ‘Pit, otherwise I’m sure he(she?) would have been involved in some of our earlier CY debates.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
I feel that Parra and Romero have the potential to become pretty solid outfielders. Parra’s errors and misplays are all due to the fact he is relatively new to the postion. The way Young carries himself out there acting depressed I think automatically should put him in AAA. I know its not just me that gets a sickened feeling when Young comes to bat in critical moments. The outcome is almost always the same. POP UP TO THE INFIELD. OR ANOTHER STRIKE OUT LOOKING. I would rather see Doug Davis batting at this point.
by yumacardinalsfan on Aug 8, 2009 11:58 PM EDT reply actions
Well
Parra was a CF all through the minors, IIRC. Romero is what he is now, a fourth outfielder. Potential doesn’t quite fit a guy with little to now power. Decent on-base skills, sure, but he’s Ichiromero, a poor man’s contact hitter without near the speed of Ichiro. Young isn’t depressed, I just don’t think he’s super-enthusiastic. Plus, he homered in Pittsburgh. Granted, more suckage has followed, but there are glimpses.
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 6:00 AM EDT up reply actions
That sweat spot on I-8 right
before crossing the river into California? That Yuma?
"If there's nothing wrong with me, maybe there's something wrong with the universe!"
by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 9, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Also
something needs to be done to turn Young around, but who knows if he isn’t already a lost case.
You are both wrong, for I, SOCO, am the BIG Anime Fan!!
This is a long shot but a career path he might take part in
Gary Matthews Jr. He was a really hype, switch hitting CF’er prospect that turned out to be a ok player. After bouncing through rosters and being a bacjup, he had a good season because of injuries and banked big with the Angels
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Nick Punto
UGH....
everytime anyone mentions Gary Matthews Jr., it reminds me of Beric Yrnes, back when he said that he wanted “Gary Matthews money” in his next contract.
Argh… dammit, now I’m going to have nightmares tonight. Why’d you have to bring him up!??
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
im sorry
but seriously though, his career path is following that way and I hope the DBacks don’t sign him to a long term deal as I am a fan of the Dbacks
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Nick Punto
Well...
that tells you the kind of player Gary Matthews Jr. is, if you specifically say, “I hope the DBacks don’t sign him to a long term deal as I am a fan of the Dbacks”. (That part made me LOL, incidentally.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Welcome
to the Snakepit, incidentally!!
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
oh why thank you
how polite! I think I’m going to like this website
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Nick Punto
Skins is the designated SnakePit Hallmark Welcome Card
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Only
when Jim doesn’t do it, first.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Too late?
We signed CY to a 5-year, $30M extension following his rookie season. If that’s what you meant.
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 6:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Doubled today.
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
And by that I mean
He hit a double. Not that the contract was doubled or anything.
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
you just gave Mr. Fan a heart attack.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
More than just Mr. Fan I'd say...
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Welcome
to the Snakepit!!
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Also, obligatory facetious comment:
I’m glad SOMEBODY finally posted a FanPost on this important issue. It would have been tragic if we had gone a whole week without a “Chris Young Sucks” thread.
Sorry, carry on.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
I just assume
AZBOMBERS is out celebrating the success of his Upton voodoo doll.
"The conflict is representative of the Darwinian struggle between avians and mammals for dominance."
"Based on Bugs giving Daffy Duck a cigar made out of dynamite?"
Actually,
that was me, celebrating the success of my AZBOMBERS voodoo doll.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
He is still only 25
And does no one remember his rookie season? He has the potential, he just has to show it
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Nick Punto
I've gone over this way too many times.
Let CY finish the year with the club, let him compete for a job in spring training. if he’s still struggling, let him start the season in AAA. IMHO, I think he’s just having a bad season. It happens. I’m willing to bet money that he turns it around next season.
Yes, he’s sucked this year, but we shouldn’t completely give up on him yet, considering we really have no better options, and we’re 10 games under .500, and out of contention.
"When fascism comes to this country, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross" - Upton Sinclair
Chris Young
would be in the minor leagues on any other team. I think AAA would really do him some help. I believe the key with Young is confidence. He should be able to get his swing back after playing everyday in Reno, I don’t see the harm in sending him down. Why reward poor play?
Because it's how this organization does it.
Remember when everyone wanted to see Upton in AAA? And what about all of those unbearable Reynolds slumps? And Montero’s struggles? And Drew’s bad start to the season and subsequent injury? The list goes on and on and on of guys playing poorly in the majors, people debating a demotion, and the guys turning it around. This team sticks with its young players through slumps, and it’s turned out well in the past. It’s just a shame that CY’s breakthrough in KC was stunted by his injury. But it’ll happen again.
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 6:05 AM EDT up reply actions
But CY's struggles
have been going on pretty much all season. He’s had a few good games to keep his average around .200, but I don’t see any harm in sending him down to “adjust his swing” or something. It’s not like fans a flocking to games to see Young catch fly balls.
I’d love to have Young back like his rookie season. The difference I see between then and now is his confidence, it couldn’t hurt to have him tee off with the rest of the AAA team. Protect Young with the power hitters down there and remind him what it’s like to hit again. I still think Young could develop in to a really good player, but first he needs to get out of this slump, and it would seem that that won’t happen at the major league level any time this season.
Actually
His confidence is fine – according to the coaches. He’s just getting too far under balls this season. Maybe Reno would help, but if he didn’t rake there, it could be devastating in the long run.
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
if he didn’t rake in Reno, it would be more of a sign that he’s not gonna rake anywhere.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
But it could also be a sign that his swing is just messed up
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I think when you are hitting .193
After 362 PA’s, it’s not a ‘slump’ any more. It’s a fundamental inability – two hot weeks in June don’t break that as a trend.
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
Lots of guys have had terrible seasons
It happens.
Who wants to put money down that CY won’t rebound next year?
"When fascism comes to this country, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross" - Upton Sinclair
Depends.
What do you mean by “rebound”? Will his numbers be WORSE? For multiple reasons, no. Will they be better than 2007? I’ll lay down some cash that they won’t.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Rebound is relative
Even in 2007, his OPS+ was only 89. Is that sufficient to merit a starting position? Gerardo Parra already has an OPS+ of 96 in the majors, at an age when Young was still mostly playing in triple-A. The big advantage Young had was his defense, which helped make up for his offensive shortcomings, but what I’ve seen this year has been mediocre, and numbers like UZR seem to back that up.
In his defense, Young is…well, young. But young players are supposed generally to get better with each season. Here’s a list of young outfielders from 2001-2009
2001-09, Outfielders 25 or younger, 1000 career PAs
Young is currently ranked 30th of 34 by OPS [and the ones below him include speed merchants like Juan Pierre and Willie Taveras, a skill Young doesn’t seem to have any more].
You just have to wonder – how much upside does he actually have?
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
He has done the impossible
A season long slump. I am not ready to give up on him, because if you watch his ABs they look like a guy who is in a funk, not someone who cannot hit. Right now he is in between, meaning he can’t catch up to good fastballs and is early and off balance for offspeed pitches. He hasn’t seen the ball well all year, maybe it’s time to get that perscription checked?
"Cut Him" Player of the Week
Three months ago it was Reynolds that fans were in an uproar about, because he was on pace to break the K record…again. What a difference a couple of month can make.
This is not one of those “the guy stinks, lets get rid of him” situations. As was noted above, Young is on our books for several more years. His performance has been abysmal this year, no arguing that. But cutting him is just out of the question. The better question is how we can best set him up for future success. Really, the only two options are letting him play in the majors, or letting him play in the minors. Cutting him or sitting him don’t help Young and consequently don’t help the team.
If we were in the playoff hunt, I’d say send him down. Since we’re already working on 2010, I can see the value of keeping him up and making him grind his way back.
However, this far into his struggles, my impression is that his confidence is shot. My take would be to send him down to AAA until the minor league season ends, and then bring him back up for full playing time in September.
Maybe we’ll get the ‘07 Chris back for next year, which we will really need. As much as I like Romero, he’s not a starting OF on a playoff team, which is what he have to shoot for next year.
Which fans
were in an uproar about Mark Rreynolds? The fans that make all their decisions based on last season? Because they must then be pretty excited about Brandon Webb’s Cy Young odds this season.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
People were worried about the K's.
Because he wasn’t hitting 11 home runs in 13 games. There were times when we had Reynolds out of the 4-spot because of the occasional struggle.
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah,
but I don’t quite remember anything near as much uproar as with CY.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Except for ohshamus
And the rest of us shut him (?) down pretty solidly for that.
"The conflict is representative of the Darwinian struggle between avians and mammals for dominance."
"Based on Bugs giving Daffy Duck a cigar made out of dynamite?"
True
I went back to that post from oshamus and the Snakepitters did a comendable job defending Reynolds. But you know there are plenty out there that saw the errors and the Ks and were not happy back a few months ago.
My point was more that dropping a player is a pretty dramatic step to take, especially one you just extended. Young needs to do better, no doubt, but it’s too early to talk about cutting him.
As for Upton…when do we extend an offer to him? Don’t want a CY situation again, but we don’t want a Ryan Howard contract situation either.
by Counsellmember on Aug 9, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think most of us want to cut CY
Most of us just want to let him sit or go to AAA for a few weeks to recover.
I’d say we should offer Upton an extension, the only question is would he take it? I think there’s a lot of assumption that Upton’s gone from Arizona as soon as he’s got a shot at being a free agent.
"The conflict is representative of the Darwinian struggle between avians and mammals for dominance."
"Based on Bugs giving Daffy Duck a cigar made out of dynamite?"
he's only gone if we don't pay him
I think if we put a Ryan Braun or Evan Longoria contract in front of him, he stays. If not, he will look for his pay day as soon as he can.
Upton's a 21 year old All Star
If he goes to free agency, someone’s going to offer him a huge contract, most likely larger than we can afford.
"The conflict is representative of the Darwinian struggle between avians and mammals for dominance."
"Based on Bugs giving Daffy Duck a cigar made out of dynamite?"
Don't think so
RapDawg’s Longoria anaolgy is right on, I think. Justin takes a big chance on injury over the next four years or however long we will control him by not signing on. If we give him an offer now that buys out his arbitration years and, say, 2-4 of his free agent years and it gives him guaranteed money and us cost certainty. Win-win situation.
However, if he just plain wants out of AZ and into a big market, what can you do? We’ll never be New York (thank-God).
by Counsellmember on Aug 9, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't.
The Rays tried the same thing with his brother, and he turned them down. I’m guessing Justin is gonna take the same tact, and wait for free agency.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
How about Upton?
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Upton took care of that himself
"If there's nothing wrong with me, maybe there's something wrong with the universe!"
by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 9, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Last year?
He was miserable pretty much all season. It took until this a couple months into year for him to find his stroke. CY’s slump hasn’t been as long as Upton’s was yet. Not saying he’ll turn into Upton (he doesn’t have those kinds of tools or that kind of ceiling), but it’s not like he’s run out of potential, and it’s not completely improbable that he turns it around.
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
damn speed reading again
No, I thought we were talking just about this year.
Re-reading your post in normal time, I see the time frame in question.
"If there's nothing wrong with me, maybe there's something wrong with the universe!"
by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 9, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha understandable.
I’m not guaranteeing anything, but it’s not something where you can nail up the coffin on his career yet.
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually...
It took until an injury and a 15-game rehab assignment in Triple-A for him to find his stroke.
Line before: .242/.353/.433
Line after: .278/.352/.570
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
My point isn't so much for CY being on the big-league squad or in AAA
It’s that we shouldn’t give up on him like some people seem to want to.
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody
But plenty have suggested that we give up on CY and the situations are similar.
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, I just don't find the situations similar at all
Young is an established player who has always struggled to hit for average – a career .266 batter in the minors and has never even hit .250 for any season – who has now apparently been fully figured out by opposing pitchers. Young has always relied on his power and speed. Both have now apparently deserted him.
How is that similar to Upton?
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
And another couple of difference
Before last season, Upton had 150 major-league PAs and was aged 20. Before this season, Young had 1,400 PAs and was aged 25. Which is more likely to take some time to find their stroke?
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
Upton and CY were also both at very similar overall skill levels
Come on now, Upton’s one of the best players in the game raw-talent wise. That’s kind of unfair to think it’s that drastic of a difference due to the PA’s and age.
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Not quite sure where this comes from.
kind of unfair to think it’s that drastic of a difference due to the PA’s and age.
You can’t really be comparing the near year-long slump of a player who should be in or approaching his prime, with a couple of months of struggles from a player who was in high-school about two seasons previously?
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
Based on the example of Upton, keeping in mind the potential differences between the two
I’m saying that it’s not unlikely that CY turns it around. I’m not saying he’ll get to Upton’s level, because that’s idiotic and he won’t, but I’m using that as the closest example that comes to mind. Like below where someone has written him off as a platoon-only guy.
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
by IHateSouthBend on Aug 9, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually...
I didn’t mean to make it sound like I meant he’ll be a platoon-er for the rest of his career. I’m sure he will improve, but that’s what he’s best suited to now.
by CaptainCanuck on Aug 13, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
True.
If you’re talking about this season, that is.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Chris Young is...
your definition of a platoon, off the bench player. He has significant RHP/LHP splits (though he’s still not great against LHP, but good) and is great defensively. He’s also got some speed to burn.
Couple of new links
Season of struggle continues for Young
He struck out three times and flied out to end the game, but Diamondbacks center fielder Chris Young’s night was about to get worse on Saturday. For 30 minutes after the game, he was locked inside the bathroom adjacent to the visitors’ dugout and ballpark personnel had to pry open the door so he could get out…Also discussion of the CY contract with Byrnes.
Gambo: Time for CY to go to Reno
For the good of Chris Young send him to Reno for the rest of this month and if he can hit .270 or better over the next three weeks, then by all means bring him back in September. If he continues to string together bad at bat after bad at bat and can’t hit minor league pitching like a major leaguer should then you will know that what you have in Chris Young is not good enough. With some major decisions to be made next year on the five outfielders to make the roster out of spring training, the Diamondbacks can get a good jump on knowing what to do with Young for next year by finding out what he can do in Triple-A now
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
I've heard CY was sent down to reno
per gambo and ash and ktar… any links to this story?
"When fascism comes to this country, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross" - Upton Sinclair
He's..... err,
not in the lineup anymore.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Welp.
So much for this fanpost. :-)
Scientists have discovered that Jesus did live, and also walked upon water. Evidence is suggesting that Peter asked him he would do for a Klondike Bar.
Dreams do come true
"If there's nothing wrong with me, maybe there's something wrong with the universe!"
by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 11, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
:-(
Harsh.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Not meant to be
Watching anyone struggle so much on ones team is never fun
"If there's nothing wrong with me, maybe there's something wrong with the universe!"
by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 11, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
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