Brandon Webb suffers shoulder setback

by snakecharmer on Aug 2, 2009 4:30 PM EDT in News Comment 31 comments

Several articles have appeared recently about Diamondbacks ace Brandon Webb and his ailing shoulder. On Monday, he played catch for the first time since June 18th, and he still felt pain after the session. Webb is visiting Dr. Keith Meister in Dallas on Sunday; rumor has it he may undergo surgery but at the moment that is just a rumor, and likely nothing will be decided until after he sees the doctor. Three physicians, including Meister, decided in June that Webb did not need surgery, but it sounds like rest has not helped at all. Brandon's September comeback now looks nearly impossible, if he's taking this drastic of a step after simply throwing.

"He’s not probably making the progress we were hoping for, so I think we have to make an assessment about what to do next," Byrnes told reporters in a conference call. "He’s worked hard. It’s just when it comes to throwing, it just hasn’t been much different recently than it was going back to late May or June."

What does this mean for Webb's future with the team? Byrnes doesn't say...

The Diamondbacks will have to decide within five days after the end of the World Series whether to pick up Webb’s $8.5 million option for 2010 or pay a $2 million buyout.

“We’ve still got in the neighborhood of 100 days before we have to make that decision,” Byrnes said. “He’s been tremendous pitcher for this organization and he’s obviously a tremendous person within the walls of the organization. We’re going to use all the information we can gather in the next 100 days or so to make the best decision.”

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Dr. Meister is one of the 3 docs in the specialist tour

by older fart on Jul 30, 2009 4:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I caught that

Thanks. :)

Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco

by snakecharmer on Jul 30, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also a useful link

Jim’s Everything you wanted to know about labrums (but were afraid to ask).

"The conflict is representative of the Darwinian struggle between avians and mammals for dominance."
"Based on Bugs giving Daffy Duck a cigar made out of dynamite?"

by kishi on Jul 30, 2009 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Going under the knife?

…On a related note, we’ve heard that Webb will have shoulder surgery on Monday; hopefully just a clean-up.

Source

No idea on the credibility though.

Wear your own fur.

by Sprankton on Jul 30, 2009 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, Steve Gilbert

cited that source in his article, though he remains clear it’s just a rumor. Nick Piecoro says, should Webb have surgery, it would be Meister to perform it, but I am thinking they won’t decide until after their consultation on Sunday.

Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco

by snakecharmer on Jul 30, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alright, this is turning into a freakin' Favre-esque soap opera!

“Will he have surgery?”, “Will he come back this year?”, “Have we seen the last of Brandon Webb in a Diamondbacks uniform?”

I think every reasonable Dbacks fan knows the answers to The Three Questions About Our Former Ace – Yes, he will have surgery. No he is not pitching this year. Yes, he is all but gone at this point. Now, can we go on with our lives and build the rotation around Danny and Max for the next 3 years? Webb will never be the pitcher he once was, that should be pretty clear by now. We should have traded him in the offseason, right after he managed to pitch himself out of an absolute lock for the 2008 Cy Young in mid-August.

Also, AFAIK Meister is a Rangers’ team doctor. I’m pretty sure he won’t be performing a torn labrum operation.

In play, out(s)

by dima1109 on Jul 30, 2009 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm just reporting

on what the others are saying. Says Piecoro: If surgery is necessary, it appears Meister, the Texas Rangers team physician, would be the one performing it.

Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco

by snakecharmer on Jul 30, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not the reporting

It’s Webb himself that is stirring it up. “It was just the little Discomfort. I will skip my next start, and it will all be better!”, “I guess I’m a little more sick than I thought. A 15-day DL stint and some rest should fix it!”, “The shoulder is still a little sore. I just need more time”, “I’m on track to recovery”, “Oops, I felt The Discomfort! Maybe something really IS wrong? I have to see 1,387,549 doctors now, just to be sure!!”, “I don’t need a surgery even though I can’t even pick up a baseball in the next 4 weeks”, “Oh no! I felt The Discomfort after I threw a baseball 10 feet! I must see the doctors again!”

HAVE THE SURGERY ALREADY!!!

In play, out(s)

by dima1109 on Jul 30, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh I agree with that, absolutely

but why wouldn’t Meister be performing it? Just because he’s another team’s doctor, doesn’t mean they don’t do specialist surgeries. Doctors are doctors…

Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco

by snakecharmer on Jul 30, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Meister might perform it for all we know.

I just don’t think he would be the one. I would think with the amount of money at stake, Webb would seek out the best surgeon for the job. And being a team doctor, even a good one, doesn’t seem like enough specialization for performing such a high-stakes surgery. But I might be wrong.

In play, out(s)

by dima1109 on Jul 30, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're being critical

It’s not easy to say, “Yeah, I’ll just go and have a potentially career-ending surgery without considering alternatives.”

He went to three doctors in search of a majority opinion that would tell him whether or not surgery would be necessary. There’s no reason to just jump in to a surgery. He was apparently told that it could be rectified without going under the knife so he took their advice. You can’t blame a guy for considering all of his options before opting to have a scary surgery.

Wear your own fur.

by Sprankton on Jul 30, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In fact I'm betting

that by going to 3 doctors – even after they were probably happy to hear the first 2 say ‘no surgery’ – he might have even wanted someone to say “go for the surgery…”

Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco

by snakecharmer on Jul 30, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hardly

A soap opera. It’s been discussed a few times and rightly so. We’re not just talking about any pitcher, this is the guy who has been the (f)ace of the franchise for the past few seasons. It’s not something that should be tossed aside like you are suggesting.

I agree he’ll most likely have surgery and is undoubtedly not pitching this year, and yeah, you’re also probably right about the D-Backs buying out the rest of his contract. From then on, though, you’re just throwing out assumptions and lousy trade ideas. Why would we have traded Webb in the offseason when the FO was convinced that we would be contending this year? I mean, who knows, if Webb wasn’t injured there’s the thought that the team would have five (plus) wins this year. No reason, whatsoever, to have traded him in the offseason.

Wear your own fur.

by Sprankton on Jul 30, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This situation is not Webb being cautious and doing what's best for his health.

It’s Webb doing damage control on his wallet. As was discussed earlier, his top-flight high-paying playing career may be in trouble if he has a torn labrum surgery. So he keeps downplaying his injury and trying to milk the Dbacks and MLB at least a little bit before he does what’s best for his health and goes in for the operation.

In play, out(s)

by dima1109 on Jul 30, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or maybe, just maybe

He was avoiding surgery because doctors told him that his injury could be rectified without it?

Wear your own fur.

by Sprankton on Jul 30, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I may be crazy,

but the whole 3-doctor tour seemed to me like a PR move. We don’t know what the doctors really told him about his injury, and Meister’s “They didn’t do a contract because of this?” shenanigans was clearly a dig at Byrnes and Hall. It’s in Webb’s best financial interest to appear more healthy than he really is, and so far it seems like he is doing just that.

In play, out(s)

by dima1109 on Jul 30, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are crazy

You’re suggesting that Brandon Webb deliberately stalled his surgery in order to try and bank more money, intentionally risking the rest of his career by doing so.

Wear your own fur.

by Sprankton on Jul 30, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Someone pay Beric Yrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 31, 2009 5:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is going to have a massive effect on what happens in the next 20 hours.

If Webb is certainly done for the year, which appears to be the case regardless of whether or not he has surgery, then there’s no way we pick up the option. And if we don’t pick up the option, there’s no way we compete in 2010, even if we keep Garland and Davis, with a rotation of Haren, Scherzer, Davis, Garland, Parker. And if we’re not competing in 2010, then there’s no reason not to trade Garland and Qualls, as well as possibly Davis. We have a bunch of bullpen arms in the minors (Septimo, Layne, Woodall, etc.) who have stepped it up, and two years down the road, in 2011, we might get to see one or two of them, and Essy Vasquez, Gutierrez, etc. may be ready for big-time roles. I could see Gutierrez closing, for instance. Our 2010 season rested with Webb, and now it might be time to blow up the veteran rotation.

Someone pay Beric Yrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 30, 2009 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Along the same lines

Piecoro also writes in his blog that the Diamondbacks aren’t likely to make any huge deals before the non-waiver deadline. We need Qualls to compete next season, and apparently nobody’s really interested in Garland or Davis.

Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco

by snakecharmer on Jul 30, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

here's why

The Diamondbacks apparently are not asking for other teams’ high-end prospects – more like the bottom half a top 10 list

Sounds sorta high end.

by ol Pete on Jul 31, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We can compete next season even without Webb

Just look at the Giants. Lincecum ~ Haren, 2009 Cain ~ 2010 Max (hopefully!), 2009 Davis > 2009 Zito, Garland ~ Sanchez, Dbacks #5 spot ~ Giants #5 spot. I think talent-wise, Dbacks offense >> Giants offense. If the Giants can compete this year, Dbacks absolutely can compete in ’10.

In play, out(s)

by dima1109 on Jul 30, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You forgot Randy Johnson

And that Garland doesn’t want to be here and might not pick up his option. And that Cain is infinitely better than Max Scherzer (no hopefully’s here, just the sad reality). And that the Giants have a much better bullpen than we do. And that the Giants just added a bat (Freddy Sanchez) because they know they’re not going to finish in the playoffs with a mediocre offense and a decent pitching staff (what we have for 2010). No (healthy) Webb, no contention. Just an opinion, but Scherzer’s not a #2 (a #3/4), DD is a #4, Garland is a #5, Jarrod Parker can’t be asked to be anything more than a #5 yet. With our offense, that won’t contend.

Also, never include ZOMGZ Sanchez in any serious comparison to another good major-league pitcher again, please. He’s not good. Garland > Sanchez by a lot. But Garland won’t be here, and if he was here, he isn’t good enough to make up for the Max/Cain difference.

Someone pay Beric Yrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 30, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I'm just angry

because had he done the surgery in June, when he should have, he would already be on track to return in the beginning or middle of next season. Now they are going to muck around for another week before deciding to do it, and by then, he may not even come back next year at all, which makes him as good as dead for us. I want him to come back and be effective again just as much as any other Dbacks fan, I mean, come on, he is Brandon freakin’ Webb! But by trying to minimize his losses, he is destroying the already slim chances of being a Diamondback after this season. He is arguably as much of a personality in the organization as Randy Johnson and Luis Gonzalez, and I want to see him back in our uniform as soon as possible. His actions put that in serous jeopardy.

In play, out(s)

by dima1109 on Jul 30, 2009 5:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Because he wanted to take every course to save his career.

You act like he’s a devil for looking after his financial situation. You’d have done the exact same, and saying otherwise is a lie. Don’t be hypocritical, it’s a business, and he was in line for huge money until this injury, and he wanted to try to not have to get surgery because if he could recover naturally he’d be better off long-term. He doesn’t want to just come back, he wants to come back quickly and be effective.

Someone pay Beric Yrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 30, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree. Obviously Webb has done well for himself, but you do have to feel sorry for the guy. He was about to hit a MAJOR jackpot. We’re talking $70-$100M — and then this happens. Of course he’s scrambling. Of course he’s not merely taking the D-Backs interests to heart, but his own. I understand everything he’s done. I just feel bad for him and bad for the D-Backs.

"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton

by njjohn on Jul 30, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Some Marlin fishing ought to help that ailing shoulder....

durrrrrrrrrr

I laugh until my head comes off.

by edbigghead on Jul 30, 2009 6:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Get Florida!

It’s clearly their fault…

Oh, wait: I see what you did…

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Jul 30, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Couple of points

This is all dependant on Webb being able to feature next season…. But If Webb is going to be healthy next season, or even for the majority of it then I see no reason why we shouldn’t spend the extra $6.5 million on picking up the extension.

The reason being, what would be do with that $6.5 million if we didn’t spend it on Webb?
I honestly can’t see us competing in 2010 and with that in mind I’d rather take a risk on seeing Webb then spending that cash on another rental like Garland.

With Webb and EB22 coming off the books (plus some more of the defered salary we still owe?) before the 2011 season is it not worth protecting prospects and young arms like Parker and Scherzer not to mention the bullpen by running Webb out for half a season? We can then use the payroll flexability to really structure a team that can win for a few seasons.

Finally a I assume that given the fact he’s missed this season that all but rules him out of being classed as a type A/B free agent?

Anyway, just my two pennies worth

Time for another drink then?

http://www.wimbles.wordpress.com

by Wimb on Jul 31, 2009 6:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If this was a team that had money to throw around

Then this would all make sense. But with the D-Backs budget being as small as it is, spending $6.5M so a guy can not be healthy/not perform isn’t worth it. We don’t know if he’d even be a decent 5th guy when healthy. It may help, but the chances it hurts are too great to justify paying that much money.

We could spend that money on a stop-gap second-baseman (Akinori Iwamura, anybody?), paying Reynolds’ arbitration money, paying Qualls’ arbitration money, and having some left to defer to future seasons. Then, when the contracts of Yrnes and Garland run out after 2010 (because it seems very likely we’ll at least try to keep Garland around), we start to open up our payroll to re-ink guys like Drew, Montero, and, God willing, Upton, while bolstering our rotation from the minors with guys like Miley, Roemer, Valdez, Augenstein, or whoever else steps up.

Someone pay Beric Yrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Aug 1, 2009 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs