AZ Snakepit: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Around SBN: Ole Miss-Alabama: "Let's Go Eat.Wait. What Happened?"

Part 3 of the D-Backs Deadline Possbilities: The Jon Garland Trade Market

As promised, here is the third edition of my delightfully time-consuming (for myself, at least) miniseries on just who might be willing to buy what the D-Backs are selling at the trade deadline this summer.  Although this might be more adequately called the Jon Garland and Doug Davis Trade Market, I personally believe that the D-Backs are more inclined to extend DD for two years, which DD seems to be open to, and which would seem to make sense for the team.  After all, DD is a strikeout pitcher, but one that does not rely solely on velocity, so it's hard to imagine him suffering the kind of tanking effect that guys like Pedro Martinez have suffered when their stuff is no longer good enough to K batters. 

Star-divide

Over the course of a two-year extension, by the end of which the D-Backs may be contending again, it's hard to imagine that DD would still have value less than that of a 5th starter in the NL, and with uncertainty about Webb (who seems more and more likely to be gone), we could use a solid veteran to team up with Haren, Scherzer, and top-prospect Jarrod Parker in the rotation, with the final rotation spot being one of the jubilee of average arm prospects in the farm system - Billy Buckner, Bryan Augenstein, Cesar Valdez, Matt Torra, Barry Enright, and, perhaps a few years later, Pat McAnaney (I think it's pretty safe to assume Petit Unit is officially no longer in this team's future plans), or another free-agent stop-gap if none of those kids is ready for the show.

So, although Davis is probably the more valuable and marketable asset (and will be covered to some extent), Garland is more likely to be packing his bags and putting on a new uniform before the season is over.  After all, the signing seemed to preclude from the very beginning that if the team wasn't contending, Garland was going to be on his way out as a rent-a-starter to any contending team who has had their rotation ransacked by injuries, as there is always demand at the deadline for starting pitching.  For all of his shortcomings and his disastrous home/away split, Garland can, as is often heard about solid back-of-the-rotation starters, "eat innings" for a contending team.  He needs a potent offense, to be sure, but you could do a lot worse for a fifth starter down the stretch than Jon Garland, and he's someone who has shown that he can pitch in an American League rotation, which not everyone in the NL can pull off. 

Plus, the home/away split might end up showing other ballclubs, especially ones with bigger ballparks, that Garland can be effective once he gets away from the hitter's haven of Chase Field.  His ERA is 6.33 at Chase, and a shining 2.67 on the road, despite having a home record of 3-4 and a road record of 2-5 (further evidence that W-L records are a fairly useless stat in evaluating pitchers).  For as hard-luck as DD has been, road numbers of 2-5 with a 2.67 ERA are fairly hard to swallow.  Then, of course, there's also the rant factor, with Garland recently speaking out, perhaps in an effort to try to hasten his own trade, about the team's lack of effort and how they "played like a last-place team" in one of his recent starts.  All of this said, I would be stunned if Garland is with the team after the deadline.  The only real question is whether or not we can scrounge up enough interest in him to get a couple of GM's competing for his services and driving his trade return skyward.

Another consideration that needs to be made is what position in the standings the team is in.  Not to spoil any of the exciting analysis below, but to use the Dodgers as an example, their fifth starter position currently is in flux.  They recently had Jason Schmidt start a game, for crying out loud.  But they are so far ahead of their division that they're going to make the playoffs, and once the playoffs are here, they aren't going to need a fifth starter, as rotations shorten in the postseason.  Extra little details like this are important in determining whether or not a team will decide to make a move for a fifth starter.  If they think they need him in order to make a run at getting into the playoffs, then it makes sense.  But if they're already going to make it, there's no need to acquire a guy who won't start in the playoffs.

 

With all of this in mind, it's time to get down to business.  Since Garland is a rent-a-starter, with an un-pickup-able mutual option for next season at over $9M, the list of teams who may trade from him is strictly contenders, the same list I used for last night's Chad Tracy Trade Market write-up - the Red Sox, Yankees, Rays, Tigers, White Sox, Twins, Angels, Mariners, Phillies, Cardinals, Cubs, Brewers, Astros, Dodgers, Braves, Giants, and Rockies.  Analysis on DD will be done, but only for the NL teams, as his stuff makes him an NL-only starter.

AL West

Los Angeles Angels: It's no secret the Angels are looking for a starting pitcher, due to the struggles of the 6.79-ERA-sporting Ervin Santana and Kelvim Escobar starting exactly one game all season.  The question is whether or not they're looking to bring back the guy they just let go in free agency, Garland.  Of course, the cash-heavy Angels are one of the more frequent teams rumored to be dealing for Roy Halladay, but Toronto GM JP Ricciardi seems to believe that Halladay isn't going anywhere, as nobody has met his demands for Doc.  This has left the Angels looking at just about everybody for starting pitching help, even scouting struggling Rays former Ace-in-the-making Scott Kazmir, despite his 6.69 ERA being just slightly less-horrific than Santana's.  They're comfortably ahead in their division, but it doesn't seem like they're comfortable with having to rely on Matt Palmer in the postseason.  A Garland deal would make a lot of sense here, as the Angels have the money to take on his salary, wouldn't need to give up much in prospect value, have a giant ballpark for Garland to work with, and have catchers who are familiar with Garland's stuff.

Seattle Mariners: If they were going for it, adding a starting pitcher wouldn't be a terrible idea, as the back end of their rotation has been in flux ever since Carlos Silva went to the DL in May (not that he helped much...).  However, much of what is being heard out of Seattle is that they're closer to selling their veteran starting pitchers, namely Eric Bedard and Jarrod Washburn.  If they decide at the last moment to make a run for it, a Garland deal wouldn't be a bad idea, as Garrett Olson can certainly be improved upon.

Texas Rangers: Dustin Nippert is filling in in the back end of their rotation.  That pretty much tells the story.  And with news that Vincente Padilla will now be known for all history for being the first big-leaguer diagnosed with Swine Flu (*GASP*), another starter wouldn't be a bad idea if they're going to make a run for it.  The ballpark is scary, as Arlington is well-known for home runs, but it's not like Garland is Yusmeiro Petit.  However, they may be content until Brandon McCarthy comes back from his foot injury, as he has begun long-tossing, before trading for a fly-ball contact pitcher.

AL Central

Chicago White Sox: The White Sox don't have a huge need for starting pitching, or at least not enough of one to justify Kenny trading more prospects for a Diamondbacks pitcher.  It's getting kind of redundant to keep putting the White Sox on this list because they're not going to make any more moves with us.

Detroit Tigers: Despite Dontrelle Willis, the Tigers have a very good rotation.  Justin Verlander, Edwin Jackson, and Rick Porcello are studs, Armando Galarraga is solid and has his great moments, and recent call-up Luke French is putting together a series of solid, although short, outings.  Especially being in first place and likely going to a Verlander/Jackson/Porcello/Galarraga postseason rotation, there's not much need for Garland.

Minnesota Twins: Yeah, the Twins' rotation absolutely sucks.  But they're below .500, and while it's enough to technically be in contention in their division, it's not enough to warrant going out and trading for a guy who should be a fifth starter in the AL, but probably would be slated in as their third starter.  With the Metrodome also having the third highest park factor, it's not a great idea for the fly ball-loving Garland.

AL East

Boston Red Sox: The Sox are one of those rare contending teams who were actually looking to possibly trade a starter for a bat, at least before a few injuries set in and fudged things up a bit.  They have a surplus of starters with an even greater surplus of questions marks attached to them - faux-All-Star Tim Wakefield is now on the DL with a strained back, Dice-K is on the DL with a case of suckitude, John Smoltz has been shaky to the tune of a 6.31 ERA in his time in Boston, Brad Penny, while effective, isn't the ground-ball machine he once was, and Buchholz hasn't gotten through six innings in his either of his two starts, although one of them was an effective 5.2 IP, 1 ER performance against Toronto.  However, it's hard to see them making a Garland deal with thier still-undeniable mass of pitchers, especially since Garland is a fly-ball oriented contact pitcher, and Fenway has a scarily-short right-field foul pole.

New York Yankees: The Yankees have been quiet this deadline...  too quiet.  Especially since they're now throwing Sergio Mitre out there on every fifth day, whose first start was a 5.2 inning, 4 run (3 earned) performance that he "earned" a win for, and Chien-Ming Wang is now unlikely to pitch again this season (if they'd want him to).  The Bombers, despite their off-season spending spree on CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett, certainly could use another starter to help them down the stretch.  The question remains whether or not they believe that Garland could survive in the salavatingly-hitter-oriented new Yankee Stadium.  A few more of those fly balls that he relies on would likely be home runs.  A possibility, but only if they think Garland would be a significant enough upgrade over Mitre to warrant giving up a prospect or two.

Tampa Bay Rays: The Rays are an odd situation, because on the surface it would appear that they're in need of a fifth starter, as Scott Kazmir and Andy Sonnanstine, their two options this season for that role, have respective ERA's of 6.69 and 6.61.  However, there are also rumors floating about that they're looking to deal Kazmir (with the Angels reportedly being interested, for whatever reason) because their salary is maxed out for this season, and many of their players have pay-raises built into their contracts for next year (including Kazmir) that they cannot pay for as the roster is currently built.  So if they deal Kazmir, and then turn around and trade for Garland, who makes more money, that would, one can assume, put their payroll over budget for this season by about $1.5M.  This would mean that any deal would have to preclude the D-Backs sending a little cash to the Rays, which is certainly what the D-Backs would try to avoid doing, as their goals in sending Garland away are to get rid of his salary and take a flier on a marginal prospect or two.  To make up for this, in all likelihood, the D-Backs would ask for a return of a better prospect package from the Rays, which is really not all that unreasonable, due to the VORP he would have over their other options, and the situation the Rays face, being third in a division likely to send two teams to the postseason.  A Garland deal would certainly help them.

NL West

Colorado Rockies: For Garland, two words: Coors Field.  Yuck.  Davis, however, seems to be a pretty good Coors Field fit, since he's a strikeout pitcher, but really the Rockies have a pretty solid rotation, with nobody having an ERA over 5 despite the Coors Effect.  Partially, this can be attributed to Jorge De La Rosa's ability to shut down the D-backs, as his ERA would skyrocket from 4.78 to 5.71 without his three starts against the D-backs, in which he's gone 22.2 innings and allowed just three earned runs, but nevertheless, that's pretty good work from a fifth starter.  They could really use a bullpen arm more than anything (Chad Qualls' sinker would be a good fit if they'll pay the high cost and we're willing to trade within the division).

Los Angeles Dodgers: As mentioned in the third paragraph before the break, Garland or Davis would slate in as the Dodgers' fifth starter, but the Dodgers are a team that's clearly going to make the postseason, and as such, have no need for a solid fifth starter when rotations are going to shorten to four and then three for the postseason anyways.  They don't need Garland or Davis to get them into the playoffs, so they don't need Garland or Davis at all.

San Francisco Giants: Noah Lowry hasn't pitched all season, and Randy's chronic back issues have returned, making the Giants suddenly in need of another starter.  But wait, they have uber-child Jonathan Sanchez, the butt-child of Nolan Ryan and Pedro Martinez, who threw a no-hitter that should have been a perfect game against the Padres!!! ZOMGZ!!!!!  Sorry, he just got shelled for five runs in five innings by a real major-league baseball team, the Rockies, tonight.  Also, Ryan Sadowski, their miracle-replacement for Sanchez when he was demoted, just gave up eight runs in 3.2 innings to the Braves.  AT&T Park's park factor (sixth in the majors) is scary for Garland, but for Doug Davis and his strikeouts it shouldn't be too much of an issue.  Curious San Fran hasn't come up much as a landing spot for Dougie, they could really use him down the stretch and as their third starter in the postseason, behind Lincecum and Cain, and ahead of Zito and RJ (if he returns).

NL Central

Chicago Cubs: Dempster is slated to come off the DL on Tuesday, but nonetheless, the Cubs have some minor rotation holes.  Rich Harden has been very hittable this season, to the tune of a 4.76 ERA, and everyone knows that he's a massive injury risk.  Garland's numbers aren't that much of an upgrade over Harden, but Davis staying in the NL would be.  The problem, though, is what would happen to Harden if they do make a Davis trade, as he's being paid $7M, and that kind of starting-pitching investment usually doesn't get saddled in the bullpen, especially after he showed last season just how effective he can be.  Despite their minor issues, i have a hard time believing the Cubbies make a deal for a starting pitcher.

Houston Astros: Oswalt and Wandy Rodriguez have the front of the rotation set, but afterwards, there are three guys sporting ERAs at or over 4.74.  Doug Davis would certainly be a welcome addition to the Astros, and even Garland would be a slight improvement.  The biggest question is whether or not they feel that they're close enough in the playoff race to go out and add a piece to make a run.  Despite the offense's success this season, chances are they're not going to catch the Cardinals, as a Doug Davis acquisition isn't enough to keep up after the Matt Holliday trade.

Milwaukee Brewers: By far the most-talked about landing spot for either Davis or Garland, and it's not difficult to understand why.  Ryan Braun blasted the front-office for not going out and acquiring better pitching.  Manny Parra and Mike Burns are stinking up the rotation to the tune of respective ERA's of 6.42 and 6.21.  Braden Looper is their #2 starter, and he's probably a good #5 or fringy #4.  Jeff Suppan, an average NL #5, is their third starter.  Davis and Garland would be miscast as #2 and #3 starters for this team, but if they're serious about making a run, especially after what the Cardinals have been doing, adding both of these guys would be great starts for the Brewers.  The problem is that the Brew Crew have to eventually stop emptying their farm system year after year in order to acquire pieces at the deadline to keep making playoff runs, and it'll be interesting to see if GM Doug Melvin will be willing to do so again, especially since they're not getting another Sabathia and they're not going to be guaranteed of anything due to the Cardinals' moves.  Definitely a huge possibility, though.

St. Louis Cardinals: A good rotation with the exception of Todd Wellemeyer's terrible season.  However, after the Holliday, DeRosa, and Lugo trades, it's hard to imagine that this offense won't destroy NL pitching on its way to a playoff berth, and at that point, you're left with three starters with ERA's below 3 and Kyle Lohse's respectable 4.35 mark.  For a short rotation, and with that kind of offensive power, this team doesn't need to add a starter in order to be a very legitimate championship contender.

NL East

Atlanta Braves: Great rotation.  Derek Lowe, Jair Jurrjens, Javier Vazquez, Kenshin Kawakami, and Tommy Hanson.  Hard to do much better than that, and Doug Davis or Jon Garland aren't upgrades for the Braves.  They could use a bat more than anything.  Random thought: Derek Lowe looks a lot like Owen Wilson in this picture.

Philadelphia Phillies: Fairly interesting situation, they're apparently counting on Pedro Martinez to make a few starts for them down the stretch, and they're also the biggest name in the Roy Halladay sweepstakes, but since it appears they're not likely to win that competition, it leaves questions as to whether or not a rotation of Cole Hamels, J.A. Happ, Joe Blanton, and Jamie Moyer or Pedro Martinez in the playoffs can really allow them to repeat as champs.  Slotting in a Doug Davis or Jon Garland in that last spot would really improve their chances, especially if they're unable to catch their big fish in Doc.

Another night, another wrap-up.  All of the possible Garland suitors are the Angels, Mariners, Rangers, Yankees, Rays, Astros, Brewers, and Phillies, with the best matches being the Angels, Rays, and Brewers.  For Davis, if he doesn't sign an extension with the D-Backs, the suitors are the Giants, Brewers, Phillies, and, to a lesser extent, the Astros.  Garland appears to have one foot out the door, the other on a banana peel, and Josh Byrnes giving a swift kick in the rear, but I'm inclined to believe that Davis is staying in the desert, and that it's probably for the best.

2 recs  |  Comment 52 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Around SB Nation

Wednesday's Frosty Mug

Jan 2010 from Brew Crew Ball - 21 comments

Comments

Display:

Since it's only 2:21 and I have nothing else to write on:

Here’s a little minor-league update:

Brandon Allen – 1-4 tonight with a single and a GIDP. Was up against Ramon Ortiz (yeah, that 36-year-old AAA pitcher Ramon Ortiz, and his dazzling 2.86 ERA. It’s a decent taste of big-league-esque pitching for the guy, but it would have been nice to see better results, although the one hit was one of only six (all singles) for the team on the night.

Trent Oeltjen – Of those six hits, three of them were Oeltjen’s, and it’s becoming more and more of a possibility that he’s a September call-up bench bat, possibly along with Rusty Ryal.

Cole Gillespie – Has not been doing well. At all. Just two hits in his first 15 at-bats, although with four walks to help salvage the OBP. Went 0-3 with a walk tonight.

Roque Mercedes – So far has pitched two scoreless innings, although he has given up a hit and two walks in those innings. Control seems like it might be an issue with Mercedes, although the stuff is there.

Matt Torra – Might be considered as another AA-callup for the rotation. Can’t see that working out well though, he was touched for five earned through six on Thursday.

Barry Enright – Another of the options to replace Petit from AA. Pitched tonight, and did even worse, giving up ten earned on fourteen hits in five innings of work. Makes me really wish Cesar Valdez wasn’t on the DL.

Billy Buckner – Solid start last Tuesday, giving up just two earned through six and two-thirds. IMO, the most likely option to replace Petit. The ERA looks bad, but I think he played better than the numbers may have shown – I recall specifically a game against the Mariners where he went six solid innings, getting out a jam in the sixth, and then was needlessly sent out for the seventh. When you’re on the road and Billy Buckner has given you six good innings, you take it and move on to the bullpen. But instead, he was kept out there and shelled in the seventh. If we can know what to expect from the kid, he can do a decent job.

Daniel Schlereth – Can probably be chalked down as a bad pick at this point. When you take college relievers in the first round of the draft, you have it in mind that they’ll be in the majors having an impact within a year. Not only did Schlereth stink (no pun intended) up the majors in his limited time, he was then sent back down to the minors and promptly got hurt, as pretty much everyone predicted he would with his throwing motion having so much violence. Not the type of impact we were looking for.

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 26, 2009 5:41 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

One last guy to report on:

Wes Roemer – Don’t be shocked if he’s promoted to replace Petit; he was drafted in the sandwich round in 2007 as a low-upside, high-probability college starter who would rise quickly through the minors, with an advanced feel for pitching and a big-league slider. He hasn’t disappointed, either, putting up a 2.05 ERA in six starts in Hi-A before being promoted to AA-Mobile, where he’s gone 6-5 with a 3.43 ERA in 14 starts. About due for a promotion to Reno, and with the likely options for the fifth starter spot in Reno having already (because I can’t defend Buckner too much), or are injured, I could see Roemer getting a few starts to gauge how ready he is. This is what the club had in mind when they picked him. Also, he could perhaps be the fifth starter with the Haren, Scherzer, Parker, Davis foursome.

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 26, 2009 5:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Assuming

we extended Davis. (I’d like it if we did, but I’m not positive that the benefits would outweigh the costs.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think davis is the perfect guy to resign. perennially underrated innings eater who already likes the organization. would be hard to find replacement innings at the cost i imagine we can have him for.

"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton

by njjohn on Jul 26, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well,

if we could get him at a slight discount, I would certainly agree. But I’m not convinced he’s worth $10 million a year.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

in 2007 (good economy) davis (30 at the time) inked a 3 year deal for $22M. coming into those years with a career ERA around 4.3, davis has basically duplicated that, posting an ERA around 4.2 (in other words, he’s been worth what we’ve paid him, but it’s not like he was a late bloomer who way overperformed his contract). given that, i’d be shocked if a 33 year old pitcher in a worse economy can get the same contract offered to him. i’m thinking we can go 3 years $15-19M. and for that, i’d jump. the guy is a respectable #3, and an excellent $4 (which is where we’d want to slot him (behind haren, webb, and scherzer).

"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton

by njjohn on Jul 26, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The extension being talked about is for two years.

Which is all the better. Same possible annual price range – $10M-$13M sounds about right. That would be golden.

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 26, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that’d be dandy.

"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton

by njjohn on Jul 26, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could

get behind that.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hold on there

Schlereth a bad pick at this point?

I hardly think his 4.2 innings in the majors could amount to any kind of analysis. He did have 7 strikeouts in that span which speaks more to me than a 9 ERA.
If we were relying on him to be a factor in the pen this year (as, granted, we may have been hoping for in April) then I’d be disappointed for sure. But pitchers get hurt. No reason to…

Wait, I just looked up his #s this year in AA. 1.21 WHIP/ 1.16 ERA/ 31 Ks in 23 Inn.
You don’t really call that a bad pick, do you? I call that a fantastic start to a professional career (albeit int he pen).

By the way, great write-up once again.

by Counsellmember on Jul 26, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's just the thought process with college relievers in the first round.

When Schlereth came into the draft, he was thought to be an immediate-impact in the majors college relief arm who would have wicked stuff and get big-league hitters out from the very beginning, then meet his demise in a few years after a series of injuries due to his throwing motion. His brief MLB cameo was pretty treacherous, as much as I really wanted it to be great, and now he’s already gotten hurt, essentially beginning the countdown to the end of his career. I really do hope that he’s able to turn it around and make an impact in the bullpen over the next couple of years, but frankly, I’m not too optimistic.

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 26, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but...

“Turn it around”? 1.21 WHIP. 1.16 ERA. 31 Ks in 23 Inn. I know the injury is a black mark, but others have had awful deliveries in the past (a bloke by the name of Lincecum comes to mind).

Do you have any more info on his injury? I really can;t rememeber reading anything about it, and it would probably go a long way in determinign how I feel about the situation.

by Counsellmember on Jul 26, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Lincecum point is valid

And it’s also why everyone predicted (and still do predict) that he’ll end up as a closer by the end of his career. Schlereth has a ribcage strain. Not serious enough to suggest he won’t be back in the bigs at some point, but also not a good start given the expectations. It’s just not a great success when we expect for the guy to be a seventh-or-eighth inning guy right now.

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 26, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even better

Strained ribcage doesn’t sound serious. But, I look a lot more to those strikeouts and really great numbers in AA ball then the minor injury and 4 innings in the majors. This guy should be an integral part of the pen for several years.

by Counsellmember on Jul 26, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's not expected to last several years...

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 26, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

Where do you read that Schlereth has a clock of just a couple of years in the majors? I know he was expected to reach the bigs quickly, I don’t remember anything about him leaving the same way.

by Counsellmember on Jul 27, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Read it somewhere following the pick.

He’s got toxic stuff, but a delivery that spells breakdown.

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 27, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well....

maybe he should wear a toxic waste suit, so he doesn’t get any of that stuff on him.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 27, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would

argue that Lincecum’s odd delivery, mechanics-wise, is altogether different (and safer) than Schlereth’s or Scherzer’s odd deliveries.

Sorry, carry on.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a lot of strain on his back...

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 26, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lincecum in his whole life has never faced any sort of prolonged injury

he is a freak indeed. Most people wouldn’t hold up, it seems like Lincecum is built to handle the stress.

Go DBacks!

by AJforAZ on Jul 27, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

He’s 25 years old. That record could change.

"Wait, am I keeping it real or kicking it old school? I can never remember which one is cool now."

by kishi on Jul 27, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is the biggest point

Would you feel comfortable giving Tim Lincecum a CC Sabathia-type contract (assuming he were to magically become a free agent this summer)? Do you trust him for the next ten years to stay healthy? I don’t. I’ll take Haren for the next four years, and Cain for the following six. Cain will be their ace someday, at least IMO.

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 27, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

this

although I’m not convinced on Cain his periphs have dropped even though his results are up. I think he’s somewhere in between as advertised and average. Which is still really good but not ace like. More Carlos Zambrano like, really good, not an ace.

Lincecum will face injuries, but for the next two or three years his performance will remain this high.

Go DBacks!

by AJforAZ on Jul 27, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i still remember watching grainy youtube footage on lincecum where folks were debating whether or not he would break down before he got to the majors. i find all of the delivery debate to be fascinating. it seems to be quite an imprecise science. it’ll be interesting to see how it develops.

"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton

by njjohn on Jul 26, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you break it down,

it seems to me that a lot of the Lincecum naysayers are grumpy members of the old guard who dislike anything new and different… I may well be wrong, but that’s the sense I’ve gotten from a lot of analyses: “There’s nothing new in baseball, and he doesn’t throw the way everyone else does. If the delivery were viable, somebody would already be using it.”

That having been said, I hope his arm falls off.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Trade NOW NOW NOW

I dont care what we get back. I do NOT want Garland’s option for next year.

I was fine with the signing this season, as there seemed a decent chance he would come over to the NL and regain is old form. But it turns out that Garland is just a mediocre pitcher who’s best attribute is as an innings eater. We’ve got guys to call up making a lot less money to fill that roll for us.

Thanks for the memories Jon, sorry it didn’t work out.

by Counsellmember on Jul 26, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The option is a mutual option

Whether or not we trade him, he’s not back for next season. Hope that’s reassuring. And the funniest part about it all is how bad he’s been at home and how great he’s been on the road. We (understandably) expected the AL/NL switch would give him a numbers boost, but really the biggest ruin to Garland was the fact that Chase Field is #1 in park factor (this season). Yes, higher than Coors. Part of that has to do with the fact that our fifth starter options/bullpen is so bad, but it’s not anything to ignore with a contact-heavy pitcher like Garland. Garland can work in either league, he just needs a big ballpark more than anything.

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 26, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mutual option...with a buyout

Im too lazy to look it up, but isnt it like 3mil? That’s kind of steep. It’s almost enough for me to advocate keeping him if we have to pay that. For an extra 6mil, he’d still have plenty of value, whether we’re in the race or not a year from now.

In the end, I’d much rather not have that decision to make, and would take anything greater than a bag of balls (brand new, mind you) in exchange.

by Counsellmember on Jul 26, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Googled.

Umm it’s a $10M option with a $1M buyout if Garland declines (not happening), and a $2.5M buyout if the club declines (happening). $7.5M is too much for Jon Garland, especially when we’re probably just going to throw a bunch of prospects into the rotation next season, who will all play for around $400k.

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 26, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

7.5 is too much. So, back to the original idea: trade him. Trade him now!

by Counsellmember on Jul 26, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

IIRC,

don’t they only count the home team when calculating park factors? (Which is misguided, to me, but it does do away with sample size concerns)

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure really.

If so, that would seem massively inefficient.

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 26, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It might also

bias higher park factors for younger teams — i.e., the Dbacks’ hitters might hit better in Chase, NOT necessarily because it’s a hitter’s park, but because they’re young and feel more comfortable at home.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you’re a freaking machine southbend… another job well done.

"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton

by njjohn on Jul 26, 2009 1:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm actually in Phoenix

But away from college, there isn’t much to do here either.

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 26, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also rec'd

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 26, 2009 2:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Brewers

“The problem is that the Brew Crew have to eventually stop emptying their farm system year after year in order to acquire pieces at the deadline to keep making playoff runs”

The only season they moved players from the farm was the 2008 season when they acquired CC Sabathia. That trade involved 4 prospects including Matt LaPorta.

They made no moves in 2007.

In 2006 they trade Carlos Lee to Texas for Cordero, Mench and two prospects.
So, it’s not like they’ve been trading the farm away for years.

by Turkpbr on Jul 26, 2009 4:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well you pretty much got me there

But GM Doug Melvin has been saying that, basically referring to the Sabathia trade. This would be the second-straight season they trade prospects for a rent-a-starter if they go out and get DD or Garland or both. It worked last year, but it’s not something they can expect to repeat for multiple years.

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 26, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they also traded for Linebrink

and the old 2nd baseman from the Giants that I’m forgetting – the outfielder that was traded in that deal is doing well lately

by ol Pete on Jul 26, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Durham?

Ray Durham?

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 26, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anytime

My random, completely useless baseball knowledge is for the general public’s use.

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 27, 2009 3:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not trying to argue anything really, just pointing out up until the CC trade they hadn’t really hedged any of their ‘solid’ future Major League’rs. Melvin has said Escobar and Gamel won’t be moved just to pick up a Holliday type pitcher. I wouldn’t even trade anyone at this point to get a Doug Davis or Jon Garland. Outside of Gallardo, they have enough 4 and 5 starters in the rotation.

Durham was traded for Hammond and Darren Ford. Linebrink was traded for Inman, Thatcher and Garrison. Moving Inman in that trade probably hurts, but he’s split time in AA/AAA so not sure he’d help this season if still around.

by Turkpbr on Jul 27, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome

to the Snakepit, incidentally!

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 27, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doug Davis is a 3-4 NL Starter

And would be better than the likes of Manny Parra and Mike Burns. It’s true they really could use a 2-3 guy, but there just aren’t any available.

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 27, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd take DD

if for no other reason than experience.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 28, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd take DD

Because Parra’s ERA is over 6… Two or three years down the road he’ll have it easily, but for now… Yikes.

Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.

by IHateSouthBend on Jul 28, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the AZ SnakePit, the SB Nation blog about the Arizona Diamondbacks. Summer in Phoenix: "Would you like to sit on the porch? Or would you rather live?" -- Eddie Izzard.
Start posting about the Diamondbacks »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

39135485-59af19dbb26654095f910f34176af094_4ae8a81e-scaled_small
Predictions Group
Mrsnakepit_small
[OT]: Oscar nominations
Square-watermelon_small
Dana Eveland DFAed
Bmurph_small
Spring Fest 2010
Beachrosei_small
Eric Byrnes a Mariner
Up_small
All Dbacks SGA bobbleheads
Cimg0181_small
How do you mend a broken sports heart?
Small
In-Depth Scouting Report (pitchers)
Ilikemony_small
I'm going through baseball withdrawls... and it's a month till pitchers and catchers report...
Golden_dome_small
Part 2 - A Retrospective Look at the Trade History of Josh Byrnes

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Manager

Mrsnakepit_small Jim McLennan

Bench coaches

Me_-_sp_studio_small snakecharmer

Gadsden_small DbacksSkins

Players

82283_small kishi

Meow2_small Azreous

Bmurph_small soco

Ilikemony_small Zephon

Keith_haring2_small Sprankton

Golden_dome_small IHateSouthBend