Diamondbacks Trade Felipe Lopez to Brewers
by snakecharmer on Jul 19, 2009 6:19 PM EDT
in Diamondbacks News
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PrintThe Arizona Diamondbacks have pulled the strings on a deal to send 2B Felipe Lopez to the Milwaukee Brewers in exchange for two minor leaguers, pitcher Roque Mercedes and outfielder Cole Gillespie. No word yet on what teams they will be assigned to in our system, though I would assume it would be Class A for Mercedes and AAA for Gillespie.
Mercedes was 1-1 with a 1.08 ERA in 29 relief appearances in the Florida State League, while Gillespie hit .242 with seven homers and 27 RBIs for Triple-A Nashville.
Click here to read the story from Steve Gilbert of MLB.com. Nick Piecoro has updated his blog with comments from Josh Byrnes and Felipe Lopez.
Josh Byrnes: "Obviously with where we are in the standings, you have to consider trades like this. Felipe played really well for us and fit in well, especially with the younger players. The reality is he’s a free agent at the end of the year and brought back two guys who we think have some long-term value to us in Gillespie and Mercedes."
Felipe Lopez: "It’s the business side of baseball. I’m leaving here on a good note. I love this organization. It’s one of the reasons I signed here to begin with. I believe in this team and still do. This team is only a couple of guys, a couple of things away from being real good. Everyone treated me well, coaches, players."
Cole Gillespie was drafted by the Brewers in 2006. He has progressed pretty quickly through the minors - rookie leagie in 2006, High Class A in 2007, AA in 2008, and AAA this year. He has a career .281 batting average with 42 home runs and 61 stolen bases. Roque Mercedes has bounced around between Rookie Ball and Class A since 2005. So far this season for the High Class A Brevard County Manatees, he is 1-1 with a 1.08 ERA.
Felipe Lopez was signed by the Diamondbacks in December, 2008 to a 1-year contract worth approximately $3.5 million. He has been a mainstay in the lineup, fairly consistent defensively and offensively for Arizona this season, though at times his hustle was questioned. In 81 games, he made 9 errors in 389 chances (.977%). Before today, Lopez was hitting .305 (and he was around .300 most of the season) with 6 home runs, 6 stolen bases, and 25 RBI.
Josh Byrnes said the Diamondbacks will use Ryan Roberts and Augie Ojeda at second base.
At first glance, I'm not wild about this trade. Lopez was one of the bright spots for Arizona's offense this season, and while I understand the reasons to trade him to a team that needs him, I feel he was worth much more than a Class A pitcher and mediocre AAA outfielder. We could have at least gotten a AAA reliever who can be called up in September and tested then. We already have a logjam in the outfield - though I'm not sure how ready Gillespie is, if his numbers improve, this deal could clear way to trade Eric Byrnes or Conor Jackson down the road. One thing's for sure - it will take several years to see the benefits of this deal.
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So,
is this the start of the fire sale?
by emilylovesthedbacks on Jul 19, 2009 6:22 PM EDT reply actions
Wasn't . . . .
the trade of Pena the start of the fire sale? (Followed by the outright release of TOny CLark?)
Not really
Trading Lopez for prospects is a legitimate trade to give someone value this season so we get potential value for the future.
If it was a fire sale, Dan Haren would be on the block.
"Wait, am I keeping it real or kicking it old school? I can never remember which one is cool now."
Thanks to
GuruB for reporting this in the GDT.
Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco
why
I don’t get it, we are one of the few sellers with decent players out there, but we decide to give them away. Use the fact that we are one of the few willing to sell as leverage. Get good players who we can see benefits from. I do not want a 23 year old A ball reliever. I think Gillespie is a decent pickup, but get me a 23 year old AAA reliever and it makes a lot more sense. Gillespie seems to have ability, but we already have an outfield of the future. Upton, Parra, Young, Jackson, and Romero are all young players with MLB experience. I have to think three of the five will comprise our outfield in a few years. Right now, I wonder if Gillespie is better than any of them, I do not know enough about him, but I hope his quick ascention through the minors indicates that he is a legit prospect. Meaning that he is better than three of those guys listed above when he is MLB ready. That is the only way I can see this trade benefitting us. Also, Lopez was batting over .300, statistically there aren’t many second basemen better than him. Get something that helps the ballclub now. Playing Augie Ojeda full time at second has proved ineffective over the past few years when Hudson went down. Even if Ryan Roberts sees time, he wasn’t even supposed to be a MLB player this year. It took a ridiculous Spring Training for him to make the team. I think Josh Byrnes needs to stop ruining the organization with terrible trades. I agree it is time to trade some guys, but please get something for them. Honestly look back at the Josh Byrnes era, how many of his trades (or even free agent signings) have truly helped our organization? Not many. This is a joke, we could have gotten so much more for Lopez.
Because
something tells me Boy Wonder Byrnes isn’t so wonderful after all?
I was so lucky getting mono. That was like the best diet ever.
Blasphemy!!!!
I wonder if him and Steve Kerr have lunch often?
Have we sent the "Don't shoot, we're pathetic" transmission yet?
by unnamedDBacksfan on Jul 19, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
You can
definitely make a case for the two GMs that both are smart but not experienced enough for the job. However, you can’t blame Kerr for the mess DiAntoni and Sarver put the Suns orginization in. Now Sarver’s not willing to throw $$$ at the team and wants to get rid of players just to stay under the luxury tax threshold. The jury is still out on whether Josh can build a team but it does not look good right now.
as for Lopez, he had to know he was just a rental player for this year. I was a little surprised that he was able to maintain a .300 avg up until he was traded. I just wonder who Byrnes has envisioned playing second next year. Maybe they should move Reynolds to second and play Tracy at third and Whitesell at first for the rest of the season. Keep Ojeda as a bench player and do whatever with Roberts. If they decide to keep shipping players out before the trade deadline, making it back to .500 by season’s end will definitely be out the window.
Badgers! Badgers! We don't need no stinkin badgers!
Suns analysis? I'm down.
Yeah, you can blame D’Antoni for “not being here to develop players.” Yeah you can (mostly) blame Sarver for being one of those idiots who believes that owning an NBA team is a business venture (and consequently ends up being hated by every fan), rather than being a fun and really expensive hobby, which is way great owners (like Mark Cuban – for as much of a prick as he is, he spends the money necessary) view it.
It does look good once you notice he go shafted by the Webb and Co-Jack injuries. And I have visions of Julio Lugo playing there, but I guess nobody else does and won’t go into that again. So either another rental that we sell for picks at mid-season, Rusty Ryal (gulp), Ryan Roberts (another gulp), Reynolds (an arm strength guy, not a throwing accuracy guy – better at third), or we take a plunge and bring up Ciriaco and let him get feasted on by MLB pitchers everywhere (he has a AA OBP of .300), while making enough good defensive plays to keep everyone dazzled for a while.
There is one final option, a VERY INTERESTING update from milb.com. On the Reno Aces roster, newly acquired supposed-OF Cole Gillespie is listed as a 2B. Did Josh Byrnes just pull a fast one on all of us and trade a stop-gap 2B for a long-term 2B? If Gillespie can field the position, his bat will play there even better than it did in the OF, kind of like what we thought we were going to do with Pollock.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 21, 2009 5:07 AM EDT up reply actions
If it makes you feel any better, I'm a Brewer fan and I'm sorry to see Gillespie go.
But then, I’m a casual and a bit of a moron, so don’t get too excited.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 19, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Tell us what you like about him.
"I forgot I have short term memory loss." Kate
by 4 Corners Fan on Jul 19, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, please do
We have enough .242-hitting outfielders, I’m not terribly impressed, though he seems to have speed on the basepaths.
Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco
by snakecharmer on Jul 19, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
He's coming back from a balky elbow
He’s about a .280 hitter and able to have an OBP about 100 points higher. Good defense but not a great arm.
From your end
thumbs up or down on the trade?
Have we sent the "Don't shoot, we're pathetic" transmission yet?
by unnamedDBacksfan on Jul 19, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
UP
Now in theaters.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 19, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
So is "Angels & Demons"
Have we sent the "Don't shoot, we're pathetic" transmission yet?
by unnamedDBacksfan on Jul 19, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
thumbs up
It works for the Brewers because Lopez fits well and can help this year.
Gillespie could be a nice player although a bit outside of the classic notion of outfield types. He’s a good hitter with high OBP skills and good defense which is more the classic CF profile.
Its hard to think much about a minor league reliever unless they are truly extraordinary. He could turn out fantastic, but when does that happen? Not often.
He's been in rookie
and high-A since 2005! If he hasn’t come up to AA by now, why not?
Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco
by snakecharmer on Jul 19, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he was a starter
didn’t do well and is now a reliever. But I never know what to think of minor league pitching prospects.
Yup
Converted to reliever. I could see us throwing him in Mobile.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 19, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds
kinda like a Conor Jackson-type player.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 20, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Ol Pete summed it up better than I could below.
I thought he had a shot to replace Corey Hart with a better OBP, which is why I liked having him around, particularly since the Brewers are still insisting Gamel will stick at 3rd. He jumped from high A to AAA while recovering from an injury earlier this year, and he appears to actually have been hitting better lately, as he had to get his average up to .242 after a very slow start while making the jump to AAA this spring.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 19, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Our outfield of the future
isn’t nearly as set as you make it out to be. Conor will probably be forced to go back to first next season. Young is hanging on by a thread. Parra will have to either hit .315 (or get a shipment of Marcus Giles’ secret recipe) to be a productive corner outfielder and I’m far from certain he can do such a thing. And Alex Romero is, well, Alex Romero – a fifth outfielder – any team that counts him as a starter is not planning on contending that season.
Ummm...
Upton is pretty set. CY is improving. Parra’s been productive and is 22 fricking years old. Conor Jackson should be back next season. Add Gillespie, and 3/5 of that group of four is going to work out long term.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 19, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
No,
CY is the opposite of improving. A couple good weeks do not negate a three year trend.
Parra is 22, but that doesn’t negate the fact that at the moment he’s a corner outfielder with very little power and merely okay plate discipline. As a center fielder he could be an above-average player, but as a corner outfielder he’s going to need to hit for plus average. He has 21 home runs in over 1500 minor league at bats and I don’t see him adding much home run power to his frame.
Conor is a non-issue here as he could very easily go back to first.
Umm... You've got some number backwards, kiddo
A couple good weeks? Try a couple good months. June and July he’s had respective OBPs of .402 and .390., respective SLGs of .508 and .367, and respective OPSs of .910 and .757. And he spent a large portion of that time recovering from a leg-muscle (I forget which) pull. And a three-year trend? Did we really think that a 30-25 rookie campaign was going to repeat itself at age 24 and 25? He started the year in a slump, and since he’s never been a batting average guy, it seems more prolonged than it really is. He’ll finish the year around .220 and with second-half numbers similar to his career numbers. I’ve done stat projections from his June to a full-season before, and am not doing it again, but just know that the kid’s figuring things out.
How many outfielders at 22 have power and good plate discipline? The Upton brothers, Griffey Jr., Kemp are all I can think of off-hand, and I doubt you could come up with a huge list, and everybody on that list is going to be a great player. If you’re going to compare everyone to those guys, you’re not going to like many players. And Parra has power. Power and speed. Seven doubles, seven triples, three home runs, all at age 22. You don’t need to hit home runs to have power. Common misconception.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Then why hasn't
Parra’s power shown up in the minors? A career .125 ISO SLG in the minors isn’t that good at all. It’s okay for a center fielder, but he isn’t a center fielder.
He’s a corner outfielder with below-average power and average patience for the position. If he becomes a plus corner outfielder it will have to be with Ichiro!-like contact ability. I guess his speed is alright, but it’s not like he’s ever been able to steal bases at an above break-even clip in the minors.
And I think you’re far more optimistic about one good month of Chris Young than any sane person ought to be. He still strikes out too much which is his biggest obstacle. He needs to figure out how to keep the walk rate of this season while cutting down strikeouts. Nevertheless, it’s going to take far more than one good month (followed up by a .757 OPS half-month) before I’m willing to believe that the 25 year-old with 1700 plate appearances and a .304 OBP has figured anything out.
No we couldn't have.
We got a top-100 prospect for three months of a rental 2B. Much better than the compensatory picks we’d have gotten for him, and that system is what determines the value of a guy like this.
And as far as your “leverage” is concerned, don’t forget that due to the economy, teams are valuing their prospects more than ever. Sure, we were one of the only sellers, but Milwaukee was one of the only buyers. Here are the teams that are in contention (within 4.5 games) for a playoff spot:
AL East: RSox, Yankees, Rays.
AL Central: Detroit, WSox, Twins.
AL West: Angels, Rangers, Mariners.
NL East: Phillies.
NL Central: Cardinals, Cubs, Brewers, Astros.
NL West: Dodgers.
Of those teams, the Sox have Pedroia, the Yankees have Cano, the Rays have Zobrist, the Tigers have 2007 Gold Glover Placido Polanco, the Twins didn’t want to trade prospects as a small-market team and instead just signed Mark Grudzielanek, the Rangers have Kinsler, the Phillies have all but won their division and have a guy named Utley, the Cardinals have Schumaker (playing very well), the Cubs have to find somewhere to put Soriano, Fox, and Ramirez when all are soon healthy, the Astros have Kaz Matsui, and we aren’t trading to the Dodgers, and they don’t want to trade with us.
So, you’re left with very few matches. The White Sox, Angels, Mariners, and Brewers. Of those teams, the White Sox have already made a deal with us, and further stripping of their system would result in a riot for Kenny Williams’ head, the Angels don’t appear set to make any moves unless it involves Halladay, the Mariners have Jose Lopez (who has 51 RBI) and aren’t really buyers, having already traded Betancourt, and the Brewers lost Rickie Weeks earlier in the season to injury and have been having Craig Counsell fill in. The only real suitor was Milwaukee (although the Cards splashed the idea around for him to be a utility guy, nothing really materialized). Low demand also means limited returns, and getting a decent return here was all we could ask for.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 19, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
good breakdown...
"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America."
-- Bruce Catton
Idle speculation
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 20, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I KNEW I'd heard the name Cole Gillespie before!
He’s the 98th ranked prospect in all of baseball, people (came into the season 107th) – according to Scout.com. We got a legitimate outfield prospect for three months of Felipe Lopez. People are complaining? After Escobar and Gamel, who are reportedly (and idiotically) “untouchable,” this was their next best guy. And Mercedes has a 1.08 ERA. He’s a bit old for his current level, but I assume he’ll be promoted to AA given his good numbers, and being 23 in AA isn’t bad at all.
Plus, this means my Operation Byrnes-for-Lugo is now in effect. Or it had better be. Wonder what the batting order is now though… Hrmmm…
1) SS Drew (I’d personally love to see CY here, since I’m the only man alive who thinks he’s still good, but it won’t happen)
2) C Montero? (Why not… he’s been hitting for average and power all over the place, so give him as many ABs as you can)
3) RF Upton
4) 3B Reynolds
5) LF Parra
6) CF Young
7) 1B Whitesell
8) 2B Roberts
9) Pitcher Du Jour
If the Lugo deal goes down, slot him for second, Montero for fifth, and slide the rest down.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 19, 2009 8:06 PM EDT reply actions
This is not true.
According to everything I’ve heard, they’ve developed a hard stance on Gamel and Escobar even when it comes to Roy Halladay (and even though they’re not even close to the kind of package needed to get Halladay). And Fielder and Braun are way too good and have way too much control left to be traded, especially with a team trying to win now.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 19, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, THAT's not true.
Well, it was true, but it may not be now. As of Friday Melvin wavered on his “untouchable” description of Gamel and Escobar. Melvin said it was “highly unlikely” he would trade either, which he said meant they “were as untouchable as any player can be”. It’s a nice attempt to dodge the noticeable shift in outlook, but it’s still a shift.
But he made that comment in discussion of his talks with the Jays on Halladay which may mean they asked for Escobar or Gamel (and most likely both) and that Melvin didn’t immediately hang up. Halladay may the only guy they’d consider moving either one for. Obviously they weren’t going to give up either one for Lopez.
Here’s the link:
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 19, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow.
News to me. Nice to see Melvin being intelligent.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I've heard Melvin say in radio interviews that he'd trade anyone
but the price has to be right. Halladay is 1.5 years. Giving up 6 of Escobar and 6 of Gamel and who knows how many other 6s isn’t worth the increased chance of winning a world series.
For Roy Halladay
Yes it is. Who knows if Gamel sticks at 3B, he’ll likely go to the OF where his bat will be less attractive. Escobar is a best-case-scenario leadoff guy. They’re good prospects, but not top-tier.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
that's the negative view
Gamel looks fine at 3B. I don’t want to go through all the awards and details of his hitting, but I don’t think its much of a problem.
Escobar is hitting pretty well and people talk about his defense being good enough to be the best in the majors.
Bottom line is it's a toss-up
Roy Halladay is not a toss-up. He instantly becomes the best pitcher in the NL (Sorry Dan Haren, you know I still love you…). A package of Gamel/Escobar/Manny Parra/Corey Hart/Angel Salome/Jeremy Jeffress is stacked enough to probably pique the interest of the Jays. Seven-game playoff series, you get Halladay three times, Yovani Gallardo twice, with a lineup of Lopez/McGeehee/Braun/Fielder/Cameron. That’s dangerous. It would be better than the Dodgers. Billingsley/Kershaw/Kuroda is not better than Halladay/Gallardo/Looper or Suppan. If they could get Doug Davis as well, then it’s game over. They make the series. Halladay/Gallardo/DD is seven-game series poison.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
The Jays would take it instantly
Outside of blogs, I’ve never heard of Escobar and Gamel referred to as anything but elite prospects.
Keith Law has very definitively mentioned doubts about both.
Escobar’s ceiling as a great defensive leadoff guy, Gamel’s shaky D.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions
It was the first example that I could think of
His negativity kinda sticks with you. There are concerns. It’s why they’re prospects – they have potential, but aren’t sure things.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
eD angry !
eD SMASH!
If I see one more Eric Byrnes 'flip throw' I will shoot myself a whole bunch of times.
what are we doing???
Felipe Lopez is way more valuable that this crap. this reliever may have a sexy era, but he was converted from a starter to a reliever. As a starter, his best era was 3.75 is ROOKIE ball, at single A it was 4.3. Now it is 1.08 but as a reliever and again, at single A. What is really troubling for me is the guy is 23 years old, and will be 24 in October, and he has NEVER pitched above single A. not too promising.
now on to the OF, Cole Gillespie. A 25 year old in AAA hitting .242. no real power or speed to speak of. Im not impressed. I read above it will take “several years to see the benegit of this deal.” Um….with all do respect, that is the dumbest thing ive heard since this trade was announced. In “several years” these guys are going to be too old to contribute in a meaningful way.
I love how it was reported above about the players we received. Career .281 average, 42 homeruns and 61 stolen bases. a 1-1 record with a 1.08 era….it all sounds so good, until you read what these guys have really done. Bad reporting, bad trade all around. Cant wait to see whats next. maybe we can get barry zito for dan haren and upton.
It WILL take several years
to see whether these guys pan out. I totally agree it does not look promising at all – but IF good things are to come, they won’t happen until 2010 at the earliest with Gillespie, probably 2011 for Mercedes.
Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco
by snakecharmer on Jul 19, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
You're missing the bottom line... Like, by a lot.
Gillespie’s been recovering from an injury this season. He’s a top-100 prospect. And “several years” means about two or three, FYI. And what’s wrong with being a converted starter? Jonathan Broxton was a converted starter. Hell, tons of great MLB relievers were converted starters. It just means they only have one or two good pitches and can’t get through the order multiple times, but they can be electric through the order once.
And… once again… I remind you… Felipe Lopez was going to be gone in three months for absolutely nothing!!! Grrr. People need to realize this.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 19, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Scherzer's still a starter dude...
So I guess no, we’re not.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
But
it’s still possible that he might be relegated to closer duty.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 20, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
It is
But given that he’s in the top-20 in the NL in ERA, I doubt it. And even so, if he was converted, I wouldn’t bash him. That’s kinda the point I was making. I think. Either that or I’m way confused.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't bash him either. I agree with you there.
But the question isn’t so much his ERA as his endurance and susceptibility to injuries.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Mmhmm.
That’s some major jerkiness and head violence in that delivery. Yikes.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude I was trying to back you up with that comment
either way, Scherzer will eventually be a bullpen guy. That delivery won’t hold up as he ages.
Go DBacks!
I misunderstood what you were trying to say.
I thought you had suggested that he was converted from reliever to starter, and hence we were going to hate on him, or something like that. I was confused. But yes, I agree to all of that. He’d be our closer today if we wanted him to, Qualls in the eighth. We’ll just have to see if we can get the pitching depth to let him do that.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 21, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Papelbon
was a converted starter, too.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 20, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont think im missing the point...
While Gillespie may be a top 100 prospect, I dont pay attention to prospects until they break the top 25. Being 25 years old in AAA is not a good indicator, and I had no idea he was recovering from an injury, that makes this trade even worse in my eyes. Im not at all excited about this dude, but hopefuly I am very wrong.
Great point about successful starters turned relievers. Great point. I am just about worried his age and never pitching above single A. To me a guy who is 23 should have at least seen some AA action, but you could be very right, relieving could be the guys calling and we could have a great pitchers, lord knows our bullpen needs it.
i know i took a pessimistic view of the trade. But i feel we could have done much better than this. I was not against trading Felipe, i didnt miss the boat on that. We needed to get something for him, and i agree with him being traded, albeit not for the received package.
Well
There’s a chance he’s sent to Mobile right away, so you’ll get your wish. And the injury hindered him at the start of the year, but as of late he’s been hitting great. I know, it’s not the most common information to find, but there you have it. We wouldn’t have done it had he not shown signs of improvement.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Welcome
to the Snakepit!
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 20, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
the question becomes
are either of these a second round draft caliber player? Yes? Then it was a good deal. Both of them? Then it was a great deal.
If we get in return what we would have gotten through compensation, then I’m happy. The 98th best prospect in baseball doesn’t sound too shabby at all. Substitute Gillespie with Parra and does the trade sound better? Parra’s the 88th best prospect.
Go DBacks!
But trading mid-season
is supposed to bring in more than a second round draft pick… I don’t mind Gillespie but I really think we could’ve gotten a more proven pitcher than Mercedes. At least AA! This kid’s bounced around for 5 years at nothing higher than Class A…. I’m still not wild about it….
Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco
by snakecharmer on Jul 19, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
we all knew that there wouldn’t be a trade this season that would drastically change the ’09 campaign, but it is a bit frustrating that there seems to be a concession that the next couple years or more are going to be waiting years as well.
And yeah, Mercedes doesn’t seem to be anyone to write home about.
I was so lucky getting mono. That was like the best diet ever.
Or else,
Byrnes is trying to maximize the value he gets from our players, rather than impatiently insisting on someone who will be with the big club next year.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 20, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Mercedes is going to probably be in AA...
He had a 1.08 ERA in hi-A ball. That’s definitely worthy of the promotion. And at 23, that’s not ludicrously old for the level. Not great, but not horrendous.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 19, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
Gillespie is. And he’s more advanced (AAA), which makes him safer. Same quality, higher probability.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 19, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
To think what I miss
Watching three episodes of Doctor Who…
Still waiting Dahlian’s recap of the game, I see…
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
LOL
Not a prob. As you say, other stuff is kinda happening.
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
by Jim McLennan on Jul 19, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
First thoughts
Beats what we’d have got for holding on to Lopez [probable Type B agent = a sandwich pick]. Saves a little cash, gets us a couple of prospects – Mercedes seems to profile as perhaps a Tony Pena type in due course. Full control over both players, in exchange for three months of Lopez in a year when the team isn’t going anywhere. That’ll do.
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
Thank you so so so so so much.
For having common sense and proper perspective on this. When very few others do. It relieves me of much stress.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Not
everyone that disagrees with you is an idiot, you know.
I was so lucky getting mono. That was like the best diet ever.
I'm aware
But the people who thought we’d keep Felipe Lopez just don’t follow baseball as overly-religiously as I do. People and their social lives… : P
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions
So wow.
That sounded condescending. Yikes. I promise I’m not a jerk… I meant the whole deal with the farm systems and how trades occur with expiring player rentals for prospects. Yeah… that. I didn’t know anything about it until about three months ago when I got really REALLY interested in baseball.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
So, then you remember how it was
4 months ago when you weren’t as zealous as you are now. Please think about that for the rest of us then?
Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco
by snakecharmer on Jul 20, 2009 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough.
Honestly, I’m just annoyed by the unwarranted pessimism. Mostly towards Josh Byrnes, who has really done little in his tenure that has been bad, but yet everyone seems to be blaming him for everything and criticizing his every move, including this one. If people weren’t so negative, I’d probably be less (admittedly) condescending. It isn’t his fault his Cy Young and best hitter have been out all season. It’s a good trade, so get off his case.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree to an extent
Well, only about the part about CY’s struggles not being Josh’s fault. But many of us feel Josh hasn’t done enough to build up the team to its full potential. And you think it’s a good trade, but truthfully we won’t be able to tell the real value of any trade until way down the line, I think even you could admit to that.
Not all of us agree with each other, and we’re certainly entitled to our own opinions and yes we may be annoyed at that. But keep in mind that we don’t have “common sense” and “perspective” just because we don’t agree with you. All we ask here is for understanding and appreciation of others’ points of view.
Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco
by snakecharmer on Jul 20, 2009 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions
All true
Gillespie could have what I call the Daunte Culpepper (namely, a complete knee armageddon) tomorrow and this would be disastrous. But the probability of it working is greater than the probability of prospects we get from the compensatory picks working, and that’s all you can really ask for.
And call me a jerk, but if youi’re going to offer consistent criticism of a professional in any field, you’d better have some darn good reasoning for offering that criticism, or else, if I feel differently, I’m going to let you know of it.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus, I don't think anybody here
actually said much about keeping Lopez… if you read that, it was somewhere I missed…
Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco
by snakecharmer on Jul 20, 2009 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
It has been mentioned sufficiently.
But it’s really not that important…
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Speak for yourself!
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 20, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Lopez Trade
well it seems to me that the offer was a bit light still. They are getting a guy that was outperforming their regular 2nd bagger before he got hurt and we get a dinged up OF prospect and a converted starter relearning the trade as a reliever? Seems to me that we already have a prospect or two performing as well as Cole is so I don’t see the need for us to pull the trigger and especially not now.
playing devils advocate, Lopez showed good prowess with the stick, but imho, if you’re getting 3.5m to play ball, the least you can do is play heady smart energetic baseball and Felipe never gave us a whole boatload of that consistently.
Agreed w/ your 2nd paragraph,
although not with your 1st.
Another thing to consider with Lopez is that he was playing his home games in Chase Field. For a hitter, that lowers your prospective trade value. If the Rockies try to trade Garret Atkins this season, (looking less and less likely, since they’re still sorta in contention) they’d be hurt by the knowledge that he’s a “Coors hitter”. Byrnes’ hitters have to deal with a similar reputation based on our home park.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 20, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, welcome
to the Snakepit. I see you also joined Hogs Haven, am I correct in assuming that, like me, you’re a Dbacks AND Redskins fan?
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 20, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Angels and ministers of grace defend us!
Have we sent the "Don't shoot, we're pathetic" transmission yet?
by unnamedDBacksfan on Jul 20, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
bingo
yessir, that would be correct, grew up mid atlantic coast, moved to AZ after college (@ UNC of all places). Now living in Tucson. Grew up watching Jurgensen and the Senators, when I came to Tucson, followed the Astros, because that was the AAA affilliate. Have been following the D’Backs since their grand opening.
Really?
Well then, you should consider coming to our group outing to Hi Corbett in a few weeks to see the Toros play!
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Lopez in Milwaukee
Milwaukee fans will think that Lopez will solidify the musical chairs that make up 2b & 3b. Some are even asking for him to play RF so Hart can be traded as part of a package for Halladay.
Lopez will not be the swing guy the Brewers need unless Lopez can pitch like Sabathia!
I was thinking earlier
Didn’t the Brewers want a power second baseman?? Counsell’s decent defensively and he’ll hit for average. Lopez only has 25 RBI all year and 6 home runs. Why do you even want him?
Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco
by snakecharmer on Jul 20, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
He's got some power...
And they needed a leadoff/#2 hitter guy. They have a ton of power. A couple guys named Fielder and Braun. Counsell was due to regress back to his normal, age-induced, ineffective self and they needed someone who could protect them from the slide that would result.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Because Counsell's 38 and has a bum knee.
If Weeks hadn’t gotten hurt, Counsell might well have had surgery. Counsell’s a backup with worse offensive numbers than Lopez. He’s better defensively, but he shouldn’t be playing every day and he’s shown signs of wearing down already. With Lopez at second, Counsell goes back to his utility player spot and he gives them a lefty PH off the bench on his off days, and Macha can platoon him with McGehee at 3rd if he likes. McGehee is also banged up, and by using Counsell at 3rd periodically, the acquisition of Lopez takes pressure off of both players without forcing Macha to actually play Hall.
For what it’s worth, I haven’t heard anyone suggest he should play right field, but maybe I’m not hanging around the same sites at rlkx4.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 20, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Ahh, that sounds good
Hadn’t heard about Counsell’s knee. :( Lopez is definitely an improvement offensively and age-wise, but for 3 months, do you guys have someone in the wings who can step in next year?
Things ’Skins has in common with foulpole for 400, please. -- soco
by snakecharmer on Jul 20, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Rickie Weeks.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
'Charmer,
you should know full well that RBIs are a lousy way to evaluate a hitter. On top of that, Lopez has batted leadoff every game he’s played this year, where RBI opportunities are scarce. (Especially back in April, when he was our only decent hitter)
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 20, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Huh
Counsell’s OPS+ is 102. Lopez’ is 101. I’m just sayin’
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 20, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
What does
that have to do with RBIs?
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Nothing.
I imagine the idea was to point out that other, more useful metrics have them as a wash at best.
True.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 21, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Counsell is 38
And prone to the breakdown. Heck, it’s already happening. Lopez is durable and plays everyday and performs everyday.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Should have asked for Counsell...
I can TOTALLY see Counsell being part of our “infield of the future” ;)
by Counsellmember on Jul 20, 2009 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
Considering the fact that they’re trading prospects, it looks like they’re going to make a serious pitch for Halladay. In which case……. Lookout. Brewers immediately become the most dangerous team in the NL. If they can throw Corey Hart, Escobar, Gamel, Manny Parra, Jeremy Jeffress, and Angel Salome for Halladay, that means they lose two guys in the bigs (Parra, who’s been shaky and inconsistent, and Hart, who’s been having an off-year) in exchange for perhaps the best pitcher in baseball, moving into the National League for a year and a half. I’d be afraid of them in a seven game series. Halladay three times, Gallardo twice, Hoffman closing, Lopez/McGeehee/Braun/Fielder/Cameron lineup. Wowzers.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
you're talking something like 30 years of player control for 1.5
that is gruesomely horrible for the Brewers.
But you're assuming that all of those guys make it in the majors and stick.
Bold assumption. If they could use that set of players to find a way to get Halladay in one deal and Doug Davis in another, they have a three-man rotation better than anybody in baseball with Halladay/Gallardo/Davis. Looper is a suitable 4, and Suppan can junkball his way to being an adequate NL 5.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
not bold
Jeffress is the only big question mark. Maybe Salome, but he’s considered a top prospect as well. Fifteen to twenty years of premium players is way, way too much. There was an article talking about other teams saying that the Brewers have the prospects to get Halladay without giving up Escobar and Gamel. They aren’t going to throw Parra in either. He’s young, LH, throws in the mid-90s and has 4 plus pitches and is needed this year.
Premium players?
I think you’re overestimating these guys. Jeffress has already had a blowout (I think… either that or his ceiling has become closer by some other reason). Salome has a huge lefty/righty split and is going to face the common catcher question of whether or not he can call a game. Hart’s on a down year. We’ve discussed Escobar/Gamel. Parra’s been bad in the majors so far this season.
Parra would probably have to be in the deal, I’ve heard Toronto wants a young pitcher they can put in their rotation right away (i.e. Kershaw, Weaver, Porcello). Parra’s a step down from those guys, so it’s hard to believe they would do it without him. And Halladay is needed this year more.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Let me clarify something:
Escobar/Parra are premium or good players, Hart is good, Gamel is either good or average (depending on position), Jeffress and Salome are either good, average, or fringe-average.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
That wasn't really negative...
It’s just that you don’t know what you get with prospects. You know what you get with Halladay, namely, the best pitcher in baseball. Sabathia had a below-2 ERA in his time with the Brewers, and his ERA was over 3 with the Indians that year. Halladay’s ERA is in the mid-2’s. He could easily win every start in the NL with the power bats they have in Milwaukee. This is the absolute best pitcher in baseball. He just shut down the effing Red Sox.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
repeatedly calling Doc “the best pitcher in baseball” is certainly open to argument….
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Yeah I know
But w/o any doubt he’s top-5, and there’s a serious case to be made for him being #1. It’s him or Johan Santana. I think that’s a fairly easy case to make. Everyone else has less of a background to show that they’re going to do it consistently. Lincecum probably is in the top-5. Haren based on this season’s ridiculousness (mainly the WHIP), and the ridiculousness of the AL Starter year in Oakland. And I’ll probably finish with a massive toss-up with Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Gallardo, Greinke, and lots more I’m not going to think of now. Depends on what numbers and what years you want to look at.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Really
You either have to base it on this season alone and put Haren up there, or you have to heavily weigh in previous seasons and put in Webb.
"Wait, am I keeping it real or kicking it old school? I can never remember which one is cool now."
Or, I could base it on both this season and previous...
Which is why I put Haren in there… In case you didn’t notice. Haren’s been dominant this season, and great in seasons past. Webb hasn’t pitched this season and has a career-undermining shoulder injury at the moment. Hard to argue he’s there anymore.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 21, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow.
Sorry man, but Johan and Halladay have both of them by a significant margin. Haren’s having a first half above his head (like he usually does), and if the past is any indication, he’ll regress a bit in the second half. If he keeps it up, then it’s a one-season anomaly, that, while putting him in the top-5, doesn’t make him the best pitcher in baseball. And Lester’s not even close. Did you see him at the start of this year?
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 21, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
did you see C.C.?
Slow starts happen. Look at Lester now. He’s dealin’ and with great consistency. AND both him and Haren are under 30. I’ll take one of those two to build my rotation around over Johan and Halladay.
Go DBacks!
C.C. got traded to the National League.
Which is supremely inferior to the AL. Which is why I give it to Halladay or Santana, both of whom have dominated the AL at some point in their careers with consistency for many years. Lester’s been wayyy too inconsistent to be considered the best pitcher in baseball. Being young doesn’t mean you’re the best pitcher in baseball… And it doesn’t mean you will be in six years either (blowouts, etc.). It just means you’ve got a better chance of hanging around.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 22, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn't say because of his age
Coupled with his age and current skill set, give me Lester as the best lefty and Haren as the best righty.
Go DBacks!
We're doing different things
You’re saying the one guy you’d want to build a rotation around is a younger guy (Haren or Lester), which makes sense. I’m saying if I had one guy to start one game for me tomorrow, I’d take Johan or Halladay.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 22, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't
necessarily know as I’d take Johan over Danny…
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
I put Haren in my top-5 above
But I’d take Johan. Nobody’s got his track record.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 22, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeffress is serving a 100 game suspension.
I doubt the Jays would regard a guy one violation from a lifetime ban after less than 2 years as a professional to be a wise acquisition. That’s probably what you’re thinking of.
I’m telling you there is no way that Melvin is going to give up all that for Halladay. Supposedly the Jays have told him what he would take and he’s still thinking about it. If they asked anywhere near that much, he would have already shut them down and never would have bothered to tell a reporter that he wasn’t sure he wanted to pay the price for Halladay.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 20, 2009 5:59 AM EDT up reply actions
With what's at stake (A World Series ring, perhaps)
I’d think he’d have to consider anything. This is Milwaukee, they don’t often get the chance to take the dive and go for a ring. In a few years, they’ll be shelling out all sorts of money to all of their kids, and the window to have the kids cheap and bring in an expensive ace will have run out.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
That's fine if you think they're a Halladay away from winning the series.
I’m not sure I agree with your thinking about running out of cash to bring in an expensive ace. They’re clearing a lot of salary at the end of this year when Cameron leaves, which will more or less offset the raise Fielder gets, and they’ll clear another 12 million when Suppan comes off the books after 2010. There are others as well. While their departures create wholes to fill, they also clear salary that offsets the raises coming to Braun and Fielder (which are fixed, thanks to the contracts they’ve already signed) and guys like Hart and Hardy are probably on the way out before they hit a huge payday. Their replacements, like Escobar, Gamel and Cain will be cheap for the next several years. It’s more of a shift of cost rather than an onslaught of big salaries.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 20, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeff Suppan makes $12M???
Wow. I’d have never expected that. Not even enough to look it up. That’s scary-ridiculous. And I’m complaining about Garland’s $9M… Geez. Although at the same time, this is kind of what I mean. It’s going to offset the costs and if guys like Hart and Hardy are out, you can’t bank on all of the Escobar, Gamel, and Cain group being ready in time, and might need fill-ins, which are expensive enough (i.e. $3.5M for Lopez after he had a third of a good season). If they can budget a Halladay acquisition, I think they are a Halladay (and a Davis) away from the series. And I think they could get both guys. That’s seven-game-series toxic.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 21, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
It might not be all six
But I’d have a hard time believing it doesn’t happen without 5 top-grade prospects. The group of six is the only thing that I can be sure of being accepted. They’re getting more than the Twins got for Johan (4 top prospects) since there’s still control left on Halladay. And Parra can’t be untouchable if the Brewers are serious about this – the Jays want a guy they can put in the rotation now.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Less than
the A’s got for Danny, though.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Danny was under control for longer
I think… Maybe not. Also younger. And less quality prospects (at least at the time – CGonzalez got them Holliday, Brett Anderson turned into a stud, Eveland is gone, etc. etc.)
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 20, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
Danny was under control for another 2 seasons, rather than 1.5.
Gonzalez was an A-level prospect at the time, although he’s looking perhaps a bit more like a B-level at the moment. Eveland DFA’d, Greg Smith = D-level, although Anderson and Connor Robertson may end up making that deal.
That’s the thing about prospects. You never really know what you’re gonna get. On another note, the Holliday trade?? Yeah… how disastrous was that?? (Unless he ends up being a Type-A FA)
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
And that's why you're going to need to send a lot of them away
To get Roy Halladay.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 21, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
And on the Holliday note:
VERY disastrous. Except that Gonzalez (the main piece they gave up) still doesn’t look like an A-level guy. A lose-lose trade if I ever saw one.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 21, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
I think both GMs walked away from that trade snickering…. and it turns out, they were BOTH right.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 21, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
You may be right....
… but then it won’t be the Brewers doing the deal. I’m convinced of it.
Now hold on a second while I check espn to make sure it hasn’t happened yet….
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 20, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It's why people are saying
That the Phillies are the front-runners. Brewers appear to be too gun-shy.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 21, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Welcome
to the Snakepit!
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 20, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think this was a great trade,
But i don’t think it was that bad of a trade though. I think we’re underrating gillespie just bit: he was playing with a toe injury last season, which more than likely brought down his numbers last season. He was the brewer’s number 9 ranked prospect according to BA. I don’t really know all that much about mercedes, but i think he’s a guy who could become a key part of our bullpen in the future.
This is really a wait and see trade. we have to wait and see how gillespie does the rest of the year, and we have to see how mercedes does the next season and half. Overall, i really don’t think this is a bad return for a half season of felipe lopez.
"When fascism comes to this country, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross" - Upton Sinclair
by C. Wesley Baier on Jul 20, 2009 5:22 PM EDT reply actions
Seriously.
All we lose is 1/2 of July, and August and September of Felipe Lopez, and we get the Brewers’ #9 prospect as well as save $2 million in salary.
Not a bad return at all. I’m sorry to see Flip go, and I dunno if another OF is the highest thing on our list, but we might also be able to flip (no pun intended) Gillespie in a trade next season, when we’ll presumably be more competitive.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
+1
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 21, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
A Very Very Very Interesting Update
While making my nightly rounds through the world of baseball internet pages, I happened to check out the Reno Aces roster, mainly to see if Brandon Allen was still raking. I wound up finding that they had listed newly acquired supposed-OF Cole Gillespie as a 2B. Perhaps Josh Byrnes traded a stop-gap 2B for a long-term 2B (beginning next year even?) without any of us knowing? If Gillespie can play the position, his bat becomes instantly more valuable than it was in the OF. It will be interesting to track this to see if it’s a mistake or some kind of plan.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 21, 2009 5:10 AM EDT reply actions
And for the likely zero people curious,
Brandon Allen is, in fact, still raking. Another hit tonight (streak at 5), with a walk, a stolen base, and a run scored.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 21, 2009 5:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I was curious!
Don’t sell yourself short.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 21, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Woo!
One person!!!! Yayzorz.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 21, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
He certaintly is raking.
367/472/833 with gasp more walks than strike outs(5:4)
"When fascism comes to this country, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross" - Upton Sinclair
by C. Wesley Baier on Jul 22, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought
Gilllespie’s D was generally regarded as not being good enough for CF, but his bat was not good enough for corner OF, and his arm wasn’t strong enough for….
Oooooh. I see now. ;-)
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 21, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Well it would seem to make sense
But the positions are vastly different. Fielding fly balls and line drives in the OF and ground balls at 2B require much different coordination. But they have to know what they’re doing to a degree I suppose. He’s got the speed and lateral quickness to react, I just see it taking some time for him to get used to the position, and that maybe impacting his offensive numbers for a bit.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 21, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
....then again,
we’ve already seen how difficult it can be for a player to go the OTHER way…. Upton was drafted as a 2B.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
Upton was drafted as a SS
His arm is too strong/too inaccurate for 2B. And scouts always had predicted he’d end up in the OF because of inaccuracy.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 22, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
That's right, he was a SS.
Reynolds was a 2B.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 22, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Which again makes little sense
Because 2B is a low-strength high-accuracy position. Which is the opposite of Reynolds. And he has the reflexes for third. And the bat. Oh well.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 22, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
If we get Alfonso Soriano from Cole Gillespie
I will run through the streets of Arizona naked out of joy. Even if he does flame out.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 22, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Indeed.
Especially for half a season of Felipe Lopez.
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Jul 22, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Precisely.
Hence the nakedness.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 22, 2009 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
He played in LF tonight
Don’t know why he’s listed as 2b.
"When fascism comes to this country, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross" - Upton Sinclair
by C. Wesley Baier on Jul 22, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Lame
Ness.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 22, 2009 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe
JB is smarter than we thought?
He has been scouting Gillespie since 2005(2006?) when he was the assistant GM of the Red Sox. Maybe he knows something we don’t.
by emilylovesthedbacks on Jul 22, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
To end all speculation:
Gillespie is now listed as a LF. As tantalizing as this was to dream of, it was to no avail. Now our hope returns to A.J. Pollock’s ability to switch to 2B out of the outfield once we finally realize we have too many OF prospects, although the ETA is somewhere around 2013. Or Ciriaco in 2011. Shame.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 23, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting piece
From Nick P discussing the trade. “Remember what the Diamondbacks paid in terms of trade talent last year in midseason trades for midlevel veterans. They gave up RHP Evan Scribner for 1B Tony Clark and RHP Chad Beck for 2B David Eckstein. That’s sort of the way these kind of trades go.” Obviously, Lopez is not Tony Clark, but those who think we should have got much more were probably optimistic.
He also nails the coffin on the Byrnes for Lugo swap. :-(
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
It's a shame
That Scribner is dominating AA. But this is a nice perspective. It was also interesting to see that the D-Backs think that Mercedes is the one who is equal to the value of the 45th pick. I wouldn’t have expected that, despite his dominance and new promotion to AA.
Someone pay Eric Byrnes $500,000 to be extreme and base jump into the Grand Canyon. Then screw with his equipment. Please.
by Dan Strittmatter on Jul 21, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
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