AZ Snakepit: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Around SBN: Headlines: BC Beats BU 4-3 in 58th Beanpot Championship

What's Past Is Prologue: A Comparison of the 2004 and 2009 Arizona Diamondbacks

This pretty much sums up the Diamondbacks year so far - downtrodden, hopeless, and oft-defeated.

More photos » Ross D. Franklin - AP

This pretty much sums up the Diamondbacks year so far - downtrodden, hopeless, and oft-defeated.

We've all been thinking it the past week - "Is this going to be another 111-loss season?" and "We've weathered 2004, can we weather this?" So I decided to take a look and see how similar the years are going.

As of May 13th, the 2009 Diamondbacks had played one more game than the 2004 squad.

2004 Team 2009 Team
Record 14-20 13-22
Rank 5th 5th
Games Back 8.5
(LAD, 21-11)
10
(LAD, 23-12)
Worse Teams Expos (10-25) Nationals (11-21)
Runs Scored 177 129
Runs Allowed 194 168
Avg. Run Diff. -1 -1

 

It's an improvement that Runs Allowed is 26 points lower this year, but it's certainly not an improvement that Runs Scored is nearly double that, 49 points lower. By this time, the 2004 Diamondbacks had faced a 5-game losing streak and two 4-game losing streaks, while only having one 3-game winning streak. This year, the losing streaks have only reached 3 games, but that's happened four times (including the one we're at the end of right now, so it could get worse). The 2009 Diamondbacks seem more able to bounce back from a loss, but practically unable to get on any winning streak at all - they've only won back-to-back games twice all season.

(I promise, the rest of this story is NOT all numbers!)

 

Star-divide

Numbers aside, let's take a look at how similar these two teams are in terms of personnel. Before the 2004 season, we traded Curt Schilling to Boston for Casey Fossum and Brandon Lyon, Craig Counsell, Junior Spivey, and four others to Milwaukee for Richie Sexson, and John Patterson to Montreal for Randy Choate. We let Raul Mondesi and Miguel Batista walk as free agents, and we also signed Roberto Alomar Jr. before the season began. This year's off-season trades were minimal, but we lost Randy Johnson, Orlando Hudson, Adam Dunn, David Eckstein, and Brandon Lyon all to free agency. Additions so far in 2009 have been Felipe Lopez, Scott Schoeneweis, Jon Garland, and Tom Gordon (the last of whom has only spent two days not on the disabled list - similar to what Sexson did in 2004). I'm inclined to think that this season, the changes are working out much more in our favor (or at least equal) than in 2004, when we got the short end of the stick on most of those trades and signings. The front office is taking less of a chance with unknown, borderline players like Choate and Fossum, instead signing guys that are more proven like Lopez and Garland, and trusting the guys that we already have to fill in the blanks.

When I was thinking of comparable injuries and minor league call-ups to the 2009 season so far, it turns out I was originally remembering 2003 - losing Johnson, Schilling, Counsell, Kim, and a whole bunch of others to the disabled list at some point, and bringing up the host of "Baby Backs" from Double- and Triple-A. In 2004, the main injuries at this point were Richie Sexson, Matt Mantei, Roberto Alomar Jr. and Oscar Villarreal, with Gonzo the other big name player to join him later in the season. Notable 2004 callups included Casey Daigle, Chad Tracy, Scott Hairston, Brian Bruney, Luis Terrero and (later) Chris Snyder. The 2004 team, instead of calling up players from a rather depleted system, depended on the previous year's rookies and young'uns (Hammock, Webb, Kata, Cintron) to step it up and fill in for the injured veterans and other players let go.

The mentality has been similar in 2009. The biggest injury has been Brandon Webb, the impact of which seems to be akin to losing Sexson in terms of morale and ability to help the team win. Tom Gordon's injury certainly doesn't help solidify the bullpen like he was brought in to do, Petit's struggles haven't been good enough for the rotation, and losing Clark, Drew and Jackson are all painful to the offense. Recently we started to bring up the new round of Baby Backs - Whitesell, Vasquez, Augenstein and Parra last night from Double-A Mobile, I'm sure Zavada will get another chance - but we are still relying on the existing young players, such as Upton, Reynolds, Young, Rosales, and Scherzer to bring this team around.

 

But in the end, the real question is - why? Why is this team struggling so badly? We all sense that this year feels as bad as 2004, but is it really? Does this team have the potential to turn it around?



In 2004, the major problem was pitching. Only three players ended the season with an ERA below 4.00 - Johnson, Webb, and Aquino. (I'm choosing not to count Jeff Fassero's scoreless inning, nor will I include Wilson's.) Randy Johnson was the only pitcher with double-digit wins (16) and three players (including Johnson) had double-digit losses. Relievers accounted for at least 28 of the team's 111 losses (more likely close to 35), and interestingly I can't find the numbers on Blown Saves but I remember it being quite high. The average ERA in 2004 was 5.66, with home runs and walks being a major problem. (Webb lead the league with 119 walks!) The young defense certainly didn't help - 139 errors total (0.86 per game), four players had more than 10, and Chad Tracy alone had 26.

Thus far in 2009, relief pitchers have only accrued 4 losses (about half of the percentage of 2004's). Granted, the average ERA is much higher, but that's because Tom Gordon and Bobby Korecky's numbers are skewing it. This year's squad has nine pitchers with an ERA under 5.00, and seven of them are under 4.00. Despite recent poor play all around, the errors this year (25 in 35 games, 0.71 per game) are not what has doomed this team. No, the problem this year is not with pitching, it's hitting. Sorting the batting average descending, the Top 10 averages range from 0.348 (Roberts) to 0.211 (Haren). Haren and Scherzer both have better BAs than Byrnes, Tracy, Drew, Jackson and Young! 2004's Top 10 hitters ranged from 0.310 to 0.250. (Did anybody remember that Stephen Randolph was 5 for 12?) Sure, those numbers weren't great either, but most players were in the mid-200s; thus far this season, most hitters are in the low-200s to high-100s. And the players that are struggling this season are not first- and second-year players from 2004. The players having a rough start this year have 3 to 9 years in the major leagues.

2004's roster had 13 players with less than a year of service, another 12 with two years. This 2009 team is more mature - sure, there are already eight rookies, but only four guys with two years under their belts. These players have been up in "the show" for years, they are better than their numbers suggest, and they have more experience to draw on to improve their play than did the 2004 team. The injuries this season aren't as bad, the overall play of the team is not as bad, and I feel this group of players has a better chance to make a comeback than the 2004 team.

It's also interesting to look even further back at the past. The Diamondbacks won the Western Division in 2002, struggled with injuries and rookies in 2003, and relied on those rookies in 2004 to pick up the slack. They couldn't. The 2007 Diamondbacks won the Western Division (and NLDS), struggled in 2008, and are relying on these young guys in 2009 to make up for their collapse late last year. Of course, both teams also fired their Manager (Brenly for Pedrique, Melvin for Hinch) to try to shake things up.

 

Can your 2009 Arizona Diamondbacks learn from the past and pull through their struggles to make the rest of the season bearable? Only time will tell.

 

 

Poll
Do you think the 2009 Diamondbacks will suffer the same fate as the 2004 Diamondbacks?
Yes, they will have at least 111 losses and have a fire sale mid-season
24 votes
Yes, they'll threaten to go over the century mark
54 votes
No, they'll improve and break even this year
55 votes
No way, they're storming back to take the NL West title
16 votes

149 votes | Poll has closed

2 recs  |  Comment 46 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Rec'd

::wipes tears from eyes::

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 14, 2009 7:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good stuff.

The only reassurance we have at this point is that 2004’s awful July isn’t represented in the numbers yet — otherwise, our offensive deficiencies would be magnified something fierce. I’m not sure it’s a huge positive to be able to say “Hey, we’re not as bad as that 111-loss team,” but it’s something to hold on to.

by Azreous on May 14, 2009 7:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I just hope

the offense turns around by July, otherwise we will be in big trouble.

Actually the batting averages and such that I referenced, though, are for the whole 2004 year. I should’ve pulled out ALL the “May 13” numbers but I was already behind schedule, heh.

by snakecharmer on May 14, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uh, hmm, and I can't figure out how

to get a team’s roster’s statistics through just a certain date of a certain year… hmmmm there must be a way.

by snakecharmer on May 14, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm?

Did you use the Baseball-Reference account?

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 14, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I'm logged in

I can’t see any option that allows me to select certain dates rather than just seasons.

by snakecharmer on May 14, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well,

it’s only 33 games. You could calculate it yourself using the box scores?

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 14, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also,

you might not be able to get a certain date, but you can sort by month — so, just assume that April + May is indicative of the team through May 13th. Or else, April + 1/2 the difference between April and May?

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 14, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can use the batting logs

To get team stats, and the individual player’s game logs to get those. You click on two rows and it’ll automatically sum them [there’s a box at the top of the log list that may need to be checked].

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on May 14, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Through May 12

The team was batting .260/.329/.451, compared to the current .232/.307/.393.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on May 14, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awesome, thanks

What a difference those points make!

by snakecharmer on May 14, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was what I thought

I could do it individually, and the team as a whole, but I couldn’t easily get all the players on the roster’s stats for that time period without going one by one. Which I didn’t want to do. ;)

by snakecharmer on May 14, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh.

Well, we just suck then.

Fortunately, I’ve got a piece just about finished for our offensive woes.

by Azreous on May 14, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nooo!!!!

Why, oh why, did we do ALL our writing for the entire season today??

::braces self for Zephon to post minor league report today::

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 14, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I know.

Had the day wide open to work on a piece, and then both your guys’ popped up.

Ah well. Just a whole bunch of coverage today, I guess.

by Azreous on May 14, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

Don’t I feel like a slacker for not having anything.

"A Dodgers game without Manny would be like an owl without a graduation cap- heartbreaking."

by kishi on May 14, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Creepy double post

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 14, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

No clue how that happened. Only hit it once. Probably my stupid connection.

by Azreous on May 14, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The scary part

Is that April/March of 2004 was our best month offensively….

So, uh, here’s hoping that April wasn’t the best we’ll see from the 2009 squad.

"A Dodgers game without Manny would be like an owl without a graduation cap- heartbreaking."

by kishi on May 14, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those were the months were we were actually healthy.

We had Roberto Alomar and Richie Sexon driving in some of those runs.

by Pyromnc on May 15, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think

it was more like “month”, singular.

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 15, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and losing Clark, Drew and Jackson are all painful to the offense.

I would cross out Clark in that statement, and actually, I think I would cross out CoJack, too. He’s been awful this season.

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 14, 2009 7:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

But the injuries are affecting their performance

If Clark could hit 2 HRs a week, or if Jackson could rake .300, we’d be a lot better off.

by snakecharmer on May 14, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

CoJack

was stinking up the place even before he got “sick”, though.

Maybe winning the 2008 AZSnakepit MVP Pittie went to his head?

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 14, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

Or I think we could count CoJack as being lost all season…

"A Dodgers game without Manny would be like an owl without a graduation cap- heartbreaking."

by kishi on May 14, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Records

2002: 98-64, NL West champions
2003: 84-78
2004: 51-111

2007: 90-72, NL West champions
2008: 82-80
2009: ?-?

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 14, 2009 7:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

Whoa! Me no like that pattern! and it ain’t the age part I see a pattern….

"They don't like humanoids in general and homo sapiens in particular. That puts their intelligence in no doubt."

by unnamedDBacksfan on May 15, 2009 3:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then what?

(Everybody else only sees the age thing)

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 15, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This
2002: 98-64, NL West champions
2003: 84-78
2004: 51-111

2007: 90-72, NL West champions
2008: 82-80
2009: ?-?

"They don't like humanoids in general and homo sapiens in particular. That puts their intelligence in no doubt."

by unnamedDBacksfan on May 16, 2009 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your sig

just happened to go with the topic you were writing about.

"They don't like humanoids in general and homo sapiens in particular. That puts their intelligence in no doubt."

by unnamedDBacksfan on May 16, 2009 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

CoJack hasn’t been the same since Lincecum buzzed him.

Mark Davis
EIC
Surprising Comics

by sayheyupton on May 14, 2009 8:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That's true, huh...

Probably just a coincidence, but still…

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 14, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I recall correctly, the first game CoJack missed with his illness was the next time Lincecum pitched against us. I don’t know if that’s coincidence or not. I hope it is.
After that, opposing pitchers have been brushing him back like sharks circling for the kill.

Mark Davis
EIC
Surprising Comics

by sayheyupton on May 14, 2009 8:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My story

has comment envy towards this story.

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 14, 2009 10:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well

this is a Diamondbacks blog, not ESPN. ;)

by snakecharmer on May 14, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes,

but as you yourself admitted, I was much less depressed writing mine than you were writing yours. :-D

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 15, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it makes you feel any better,

mine’s only got one comment.

by Azreous on May 15, 2009 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude, this is not me saying this.

It’s my story. It told me it was sad. :-(

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 15, 2009 5:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You do realize

that you have like half my comments, right? :P

by snakecharmer on May 15, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now now.

Don’t go bringing the truth into this.

by Azreous on May 15, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

:-D

I was patiently waiting for somebody to point that out….

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 15, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Besides,

you’re clearly a liar.

Jim Zorn, 55. Sean Miller, 40. AJ Hinch, 34. Notice a pattern here?

by DbacksSkins on May 15, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the AZ SnakePit, the SB Nation blog about the Arizona Diamondbacks. Summer in Phoenix: "Would you like to sit on the porch? Or would you rather live?" -- Eddie Izzard.
Start posting about the Diamondbacks »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

39135485-59af19dbb26654095f910f34176af094_4ae8a81e-scaled_small
Predictions Group
Mrsnakepit_small
[OT]: Oscar nominations
Square-watermelon_small
Dana Eveland DFAed
Bmurph_small
Spring Fest 2010 - Vote for the Date
Beachrosei_small
Eric Byrnes a Mariner
Up_small
All Dbacks SGA bobbleheads
Cimg0181_small
How do you mend a broken sports heart?
Small
In-Depth Scouting Report (pitchers)
Ilikemony_small
I'm going through baseball withdrawls... and it's a month till pitchers and catchers report...
Golden_dome_small
Part 2 - A Retrospective Look at the Trade History of Josh Byrnes

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Manager

Mrsnakepit_small Jim McLennan

Bench coaches

Me_-_sp_studio_small snakecharmer

Gadsden_small DbacksSkins

Players

82283_small kishi

Meow2_small Azreous

Bmurph_small soco

Ilikemony_small Zephon

Keith_haring2_small Sprankton

Golden_dome_small IHateSouthBend