If you're upset that Eric Byrnes is here, that he is an Arizona Diamondback, don't blame him. Blame yourself. And Jeff Moorad. You - the casual baseball fan - you're the one back in 2007 who swore that you'd never go to a game again if the D-backs didn't resign him... Besides he got off to a great start, put up big numbers. Believe me, I heard from hundreds of you back in 2007. Admit it...you thought the somersaults were cool, didn't you casual-baseball-fan?
Dave Burns on KTAR.com. Thare's another quote worth repeating: "One Diamondback official - who shall remain nameless - had this look on his face the day the deal was announced. The kind of look a dad might have when his ex-wife buys their daughter a pony for her birthday. A look that said, "not my idea, I knew he was a career .261 hitter""
almost 3 years ago
Jim McLennan
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BINGO!!!!!!
Finally
"If you'd need to know, you'd know. but they decided that you don't need to know,so you don't. So stop thinking about what you don't know because you don't need to know what you think you need to know about!"
by unnamedDBacksfan on Apr 20, 2009 3:08 PM EDT reply actions
This is a grand slam
major kudos to Dave.
"If you'd need to know, you'd know. but they decided that you don't need to know,so you don't. So stop thinking about what you don't know because you don't need to know what you think you need to know about!"
by unnamedDBacksfan on Apr 20, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Spot on
Burnsie is one of the few guys on KTAR I can stand to listen to for any extended period of time, and I’d say he nails it here.
"He can't re-educate them in camps! He'd have to educate them first."
I agree
Burns is by far my favorite KTAR host. He was also the only one that on the day of the signing that said there’s a significant possibility that it was nothing more than p.r. deal. Gambo & Ash thought it was a great baseball move!
P.S. my Diamondbacks season preview has finally been posted over at BTF. It’s going over about as well as I expected it to.
Deserving of
And will get, a front-page fanshot link.
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
by Jim McLennan on Apr 20, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
This!
“Meanwhile, Carlos Quentin is putting up MVP numbers (is he playing this well because he’s getting better coaching or feeling less pressure? Great question). "
For management:
“If you listen to the fans, expect to be sitting with them rather soon”
by AF DBacks Fanatic on Apr 20, 2009 5:09 PM EDT reply actions
Hmmm...
I wonder if that “official” was none other than Josh Byrnes….
Insert witty and/or humorous signature here.
It might
have been interesting if it wasn’t so sneering and poorly written, but at this point it’s just an easy article that doesn’t do anything except fill space. At best the article’s only unique angle is the casual fan is to blame for the current mess.
What? neh-are you se-no! No! I hh I I don't even't know what you're sayinhow whatdoyou whatdoyou talking about you want me to go away? I I I I can't no! I can't I can't just leave I - ...you can't leave me!
+100
This article is something that needed to be said whether certain fans got their butts hurt or not.
"If you'd need to know, you'd know. but they decided that you don't need to know,so you don't. So stop thinking about what you don't know because you don't need to know what you think you need to know about!"
by unnamedDBacksfan on Apr 20, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
That
doesn’t then mean the article is free from critique, and they need to be said whether certain writers or fans of said writer’s article get their butts hurt or not. I’m sorry I’m not joining in on the circle jerk.
What? neh-are you se-no! No! I hh I I don't even't know what you're sayinhow whatdoyou whatdoyou talking about you want me to go away? I I I I can't no! I can't I can't just leave I - ...you can't leave me!
but yet
you want me to buy into your pro Eric Byrnes circle jerk? That is laughable in the extreme!
by all means, please critique any and all articles, but try and use facts instead of emotional baggage. thanks
"If you'd need to know, you'd know. but they decided that you don't need to know,so you don't. So stop thinking about what you don't know because you don't need to know what you think you need to know about!"
by unnamedDBacksfan on Apr 21, 2009 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Give me a break
My argument was simply that this little piece was too condescending and poorly written to be worth much of anything. You’re the one attempting to get emotional on this.
I’m arguing that it’s condescending. The premise might be trying to find who is to blame for the outfield mess, but the motivation seems to be more the author attempting to feel superior over other people. How else can this be interpreted: “Admit it…you thought the somersaults were cool, didn’t you casual-baseball-fan?” Not only does the author sneer at the fact that casual fans might have or do like Byrnes, but the implication is the casual fan in general should be held in disdain. The author never attempts to define “casual fan,” though I suppose by implication the casual fan is anyone stupid enough to like Byrnes,
I’m arguing that the article is poorly written. A sample: “If you want to rag on him for the pop ups (remember Major League? Can Bob Melvin make him do push-ups at home plate every time he pops it up?), the utterly unnecessary somersaults in the outfield (hey mom-look at me) or the TV show (hey mom-look at me part 2), go right on ahead.” This section isn’t so bad if you want it as a rough draft, but it needs some serious work. It’s sloppy, meandering, and full of parantheticals that provide a kind of stunted rhythm. Or: “Shoot, Scott Hairston is putting up better numbers than Byrnes. At a fraction of the cost.” Here he uses a pretty milquetoast sland, and then follows that up with a fragment. Why not just say, “Even Scott Hairston is putting better numbers than Byrnes, at a fraction of the cost.”
So no, I’m not attempting to argue for Byrnes, or even disagreeing in the general premise against him. Instead, I’m merely raising points that the article is at best a vehicle for the author to feel superior over others, and with some more work on the writing might have been transformed into something worthwhile.
What? neh-are you se-no! No! I hh I I don't even't know what you're sayinhow whatdoyou whatdoyou talking about you want me to go away? I I I I can't no! I can't I can't just leave I - ...you can't leave me!
Please Soco,
ever time there is a negative word said about your favorite player, you go apoplectic.
You – the casual baseball fan – you’re the one back in 2007 who swore that you’d never go to a game again if the D-backs didn’t resign him…
does this quote fit you?
I didn’t think so either.
"If you'd need to know, you'd know. but they decided that you don't need to know,so you don't. So stop thinking about what you don't know because you don't need to know what you think you need to know about!"
by unnamedDBacksfan on Apr 21, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I would have to say
I don’t think I’ve seen soco go apoplectic over anything someone’s said about the team.
"He can't re-educate them in camps! He'd have to educate them first."
Yea!
Besides, Timm doesn’t love Byrnes nor does he hate him. If we are going with favorite players I would say Flip or Augie waaaaay before Byrnes.
He is far more level headed and zen about the Diamondbacks. Now if we were talking the Bills? Maybe he would get a little more passionate.
"Treat your mind like a bad neighborhood - don't go there alone."
Actually, you are
quite correct! I went back into the archives as there was one particlular thread where things got heated and it was
Soco who was the level headed one and calmed everyone down.
My bad.
"If you'd need to know, you'd know. but they decided that you don't need to know,so you don't. So stop thinking about what you don't know because you don't need to know what you think you need to know about!"
by unnamedDBacksfan on Apr 21, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
It's cool
in the end that’s the way I try and look at it: sometimes we need to vent, but sometimes we need positivity.
What? neh-are you se-no! No! I hh I I don't even't know what you're sayinhow whatdoyou whatdoyou talking about you want me to go away? I I I I can't no! I can't I can't just leave I - ...you can't leave me!
In fairness,
that’s kinda the pot calling the kettle black, because here at the Snakepit, we’re dismissive of “casual fans” all the time.
Insert witty and/or humorous signature here.
you wanna see pure
hysterics? Go over to www.dbacks.com
go to the fan forum message board.
THOSE fans are what this article was referring to.
"If you'd need to know, you'd know. but they decided that you don't need to know,so you don't. So stop thinking about what you don't know because you don't need to know what you think you need to know about!"
by unnamedDBacksfan on Apr 21, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
That's true
at times we do joke about “casual fans,” especially on other teams, but my main gripe is the ambiguity of the phrase as Burns uses it. Since he doesn’t even attempt to define the term, within the boundaries of his article a “casual fan” is someone who wanted Brynes to stay. This doesn’t take into account whether or not these fans attend a large number of games, or spend a lot of money on the franchise, or follow the team everyday. Instead, the only criteria in the article for a “casual fan” is simply wanting a player to stay, which is pretty limited no matter how you slice it.
What? neh-are you se-no! No! I hh I I don't even't know what you're sayinhow whatdoyou whatdoyou talking about you want me to go away? I I I I can't no! I can't I can't just leave I - ...you can't leave me!
Oh, don't worry.
I didn’t take any sort of exception to anything else you said, really. I thought the criticism was generally well-founded.
Insert witty and/or humorous signature here.
I don't
have one, but thanks for trying.
What? neh-are you se-no! No! I hh I I don't even't know what you're sayinhow whatdoyou whatdoyou talking about you want me to go away? I I I I can't no! I can't I can't just leave I - ...you can't leave me!
I have a Byrnes shirt
And I wear it proudly.
"Treat your mind like a bad neighborhood - don't go there alone."
As well as you should.
Nobody, but nobody said you shouldn’t be a fan of his.
"If you'd need to know, you'd know. but they decided that you don't need to know,so you don't. So stop thinking about what you don't know because you don't need to know what you think you need to know about!"
by unnamedDBacksfan on Apr 21, 2009 4:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Welll
That is debateable, I have been told in the past to let him go but I am nothing if not stubborn and optimistic. I get it from my mom (who somehow still loves the Suns even when they have broken her heart 15 years running.) ;)
"Treat your mind like a bad neighborhood - don't go there alone."
Don't take grief for liking Byrnes
Byrnes is my roommate’s favorite baseball player (she is one of those casual fans and her opinion of my devotion ranges from amused to bewildered – mostly she thinks I’m a bit crazy). I tease her for it, but that’s no reason to stop. The player you like is the player you like. Baseball is about having fun and there’s nothing wrong with having fun watching Eric Byrnes whether he’s your first or third favorite or whatever..
Babe Ruth was a jerk but baseball's still a beautiful game - Dean Winchester
The only thing
Phoenix fans are “guilty” of is reacting to Byrnes’ wildly up and down play. We cheered like crazy when he hit .300 (pre extension), on his way to a 20/50 season , and finally, reluctantly, we booed him, after a year or so below replacement level. Gee, what a quirky, fickle fan base we are ;-)
The bigger lie here is this polarizing notion our “casual fan” is somehow to blame for the Byrnes extension. Let me get this straight. Fans are responsible for crappy FO moves now? lol. How about we get credit for the good moves, since we want our team to get better each year? ( Both assertions are preposterous.)
We all recognize things havent turned out well and that PR was a component of the extension. That’s not the fans’ fault. That’s the FO’s fault, for putting themselves in a precarious position with fans, in a hundred other ways (ticket prices, rebrand, Backman, etc), to a point Moorad overreacted to heal alienation he helped foster between 2005-2007. He wasnt running some dork’s fantasy team. He was running a flesh and blood franchise, fighting for first – and attendance was dying. It was a national story and he evidently thought Byrnes was a good fit – on and off the field.
That sounds silly now, as Eric Byrnes’ career sinks lower than even his harshest critics imagined, but what’s getting discounted is the baseball component of the extension, and how this dubious projection fit in with a host of other outfield misevaluations (Hairston, Quentin, Young, Upton). To this day, despite being prattled about endlessly, the assumption ’Moorad’s folly’ triggered the other misevaluations, rather than simply interacted with them, is unsubstantiated.
If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09
It was indeed a Moorad reaction to casual fan pressure
The only thing Phoenix fans are "guilty" of is reacting to Byrnes’ wildly up and down play… The bigger lie here is this polarizing notion our "casual fan" is somehow to blame for the Byrnes extension.
I was at Josh Byrnes’ Q&A session at Chase Field in June of 2007 when Josh faced down a rabid Eric Byrnes supporter and told him the extension wasn’t going to happen.
Here’s an accounting of that occurance from another person that attended the Q&A:
The point about Eric Byrnes needs to be filled in a bit more.
The person who asked the question started off with a Statement that Eric Byrnes was the heart and soul of the team and needed to be kept. It wasn’t a question at all, it was a demand.
Josh tried to patiently explain that they had tried to sign EB to a two year deal, for 07-08, but obviously that was not in EB’s own best interest. Josh pointed out that we have a lot of good young outfield talent, and reeled of all the names. He then pointed out the Mathews contract for 5 yrs 50 million, indicating that it would probably take something similar to keep Byrnes.
The questioner was having none of it. He argued that the young players are not doing well, none are hitting even .250 , and Byrnes is the only one you can Bank on. Josh defused the situation by laughing as he said “Yeah,well that’s an expensive bank”. He got a laugh and we all moved on.
When that $30 million Full-No-Trade-Clause 3-Year Extension happened, I was stunned and disappointed. It didn’t take much evaluation of Eric’s history to see what laid ahead for us over the next three years.
Moorad feared loss of fans and took it upon himself to not let another “face of the franchise” walk, no matter what the cost. I don’t think Jeff was bright enough to truly see what that cost would be. If Moorad had a conscience, he’d have taken Eric’s contract with him to San Diego when he jumped ship this year.
When Arizona won their division in 2007, an ebullient Jeff Moorad walked into the Diamondbacks clubhouse post-game and was quoted as shouting, “We got our fans back!” After letting Gonzo go (and rightly so at the time), he was petrified that he was losing fan enthusiasm and mistakenly surmised that keeping Eric Byrnes in Arizona would solve everything.
Moorad’s EB folly along with the resultant Quentin dump will go down as the single worst move to date in this franchise’s 11+ year history. The only way Jeff could have topped it is if he had dumped Brandon Webb when he signed Russ Ortiz to that $33 million exercise in bad judgment at the end of 2004.
I’m familiar with the Q&A. Here’s my problem. You, and some other guys, had this visceral experience with a crazed EBphile, and from that dog and pony spectacle, somehow gleaned the inner workings of Jeff Moorad’s mind? Or JB’s for that matter? Isnt that a flimsy basis to be badgering the extension “issue” to death, twenty months running? Or do you regularly coffee with JB and Derrick and “know” everything between sips? Spit it out, friend. Inquiring minds want to know :-)
I’m certainly not claiming JB was the direct force behind the extension, just that taking any GM’s public stance at face value is so often a fool’s errand. And based on Moorad’s impressive business (not baseball personnel) acumen, I think it’s reasonable to assume JB’s misevaluations of other outfielders played some role in Moorad’s little Waterloo here.
It didn’t take much evaluation of Eric’s history to see what laid ahead for us over the next three years.
Not sure what you mean here, TAP, but if you mean Eric’s performed anywhere near what most baseball analysts expected, then you’re full of shit. He’s played much worse than that. If you mean “what lay ahead” was a mediocre 90-95 OPS+ OFer with some hops on both sides of the ball, who was a dubious $30M baseball – only investment, then that’s entirely different :-)
Moorad feared loss of fans and took it upon himself to not let another "face of the franchise" walk, no matter what the cost.
Yes, yes and no. Feared the loss of fans, but the implication Moorad didnt care about the cost (of anything, frankly), or that he was reduced to gullible tunnel vision on the subject contradicts this seasoned actor’s raison d’etre. He evaluates the cost and benefit of more than is dreampt of in my philosophy certainly, and I daresay yours.
He was petrified that he was losing fan enthusiasm and mistakenly surmised that keeping Eric Byrnes in Arizona would solve everything.
Jeff Moorad isnt petrified of anything. He was concerned about waning fan enthusiasm, after the rebrand, after the winning, and rightly so. Unlike JB, whose job is to put the best team on the field within a financial context, Moorad’s job was to define that larger structure. I dont know the inner workings of his mind, any more than you or levski, but my guess is that on the baseball side, Jeff felt he could “afford” a popular 90-95 OPS+ in left (ie w/ Ops whispering that CY and JUp were imminent or up and coming superstars), and on the business side, Jeff felt he couldnt afford not to sign Eric – as a considered hedge, in case we didnt win the 2007 NLW, on a young team that, if you’ll pardon the expression, had all the allure & personality of a thumbtack ;-)
Moorad’s bright as hell, imo, and all things considered, thought Eric was a reasonable value for the franchise. He made a mistake. Bright people, faced with complex considerations, do that from time to time. It doesnt mean they’re idiots without a conscience, and it’s not the end of the world.
If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09
by Diamondhacks on Apr 21, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure what you mean here, TAP, but if you mean Eric’s performed anywhere near what most baseball analysts expected, then you’re full of shit. He’s played much worse than that. If you mean "what lay ahead" was a mediocre 90-95 OPS+ OFer with some hops on both sides of the ball, who was a dubious $30M baseball – only investment, then that’s entirely different :-)
It wasn’t just me or many at DBBP or Keith Law. Anybody that looked at this with their eyes wide open had to know it wasn’t going to end pretty. We were looking at a journeyman below-average career outfielder that would be 34 years old at the end of this extension whose primary asset throughout his career had been his legs. Not to mention that this extension signaled the end of Carlos Quentin’s tenure in Arizona. What part of that formula doesn’t spell disaster?
Unlike JB, whose job is to put the best team on the field within a financial context, Moorad’s job was to define that larger structure. I dont know the inner workings of his mind, any more than you or levski, but my guess is that on the baseball side, Jeff felt he could "afford" a popular 90-95 OPS+ in left (ie w/ Ops whispering that CY and JUp were imminent or up and coming superstars), and on the business side, Jeff felt he couldnt afford not to sign Eric… Moorad’s bright as hell, imo, and all things considered, thought Eric was a reasonable value for the franchise.
And prior to this debacle, Jeff’s biggest player personnel decision was signing Russ Ortiz to a 4-year $33 million contract before the 2005 season. He’s all yours, San Diego.
What part of that formula doesn’t spell disaster?
I would say, the part where a) we cough up the 07 playoff birth, which was totally touch and go at the time, b) the fractured fan base further eroded following “a” and elective dislocations (rebranding, jettisoning popular FotF’s 2 yrs running, on a young team of “nobodies”) , c) a 31 year old career 100 OPS+ who stole 50 bags would come back the next year around 95 and steal, I dont know, thirty, and d) the FO doesnt grossly misevaluate the readiness of Quentin and Upton, overrate Young and underrate Hairston, all quite independent of JM’s best hopes for EB.
My thought was, if they got some of these other things right, if EByrnes played anywhere near projections the first couple yrs, that third year wouldnt kill us. We’d have a star or two (maybe a superstar) for next to nothing to even out the outfield picture.
Anybody that looked at this with their eyes wide open had to know it wasn’t going to end pretty.
In terms of the age 34 season, I agree. I’m not sure I agree with “disaster” but it wasnt going to “end” pretty. I guess my frustration is, prior to that age 34 season, the Told Ya So crowd has been reluctant to emphasize how far off their own projections have been. I dont read everything at DBBP, not anymore certainly, so maybe I missed it. But did anyone project Eric’s sub 70 OPS+ back in 2007?
It’s funny. If Byrnesie had just meandered along, in that 95 OPS+ way of his, I think “you guys” would be easier to stomach. Because that would focus debate on reasonable (and met) projections v. the thirty million dollars. Per above, I dont think that’s the only issue, but it’s certainly a legitimate one.
I just think “Told Ya So” wouldnt ring so hollow if a) it didnt require oversimplistic disparagement of a convenient evil doer (JM), and b) was tempered more often with the acknowledgement EB’s sabermetric projections werent very accurate either. More accurate than yahoos’ fondest desires, sure, but they werent that great….not for years 32-33.
Everyone knows it’s a really bad deal. But it’s not really bad because you guys called it. It’s really bad because our Haverford heartthrob made a bunch of other OF mistakes exacerbating it, and because EB inexplicably fell off the face of the earth one or two years before his harshest critics envisioned.
Josie’s on vacation
The time for talk is over.
Nuthin’ more to say, than Jeff
Likes his boys a little bit older
Cheers
If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09
by Diamondhacks on Apr 21, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
"The bigger lie here is this polarizing notion our "casual fan" is somehow to blame for the Byrnes extension."
You’re the one back in 2007 who swore that you’d never go to a game again if the D-backs didn’t resign him. You felt jilted about Luis Gonzalez and decided that if the team was going to let the “face” of the team just walk away, again, then the next time some one went walkin’ it would be you. Besides he got off to a great start, put up big numbers. Believe me, I heard from hundreds of you back in 2007
I don’t know if you read the entire article, but that’s the relevant quote in full. Seems you’re espousing a double-standard here: you pillory the team for not taking fans’ opinions into account on things like the re-branding, and quote ‘surveys’ on AZ Central as ‘proof’ supporting your position.. But when the team do listen to the same casual fans, and act in accordance with their wishes, you attack them for doing so – almost two years later and in complete hindsight, it appears, unless I’m missing a piece critical of the signing from your archive.
Even you admit PR was ‘a component of the extension’ – so how are the fans who made the demand a condition of their ongoing support, not to blame for the results, when they get what they wanted? Actions have consequences, and just because they weren’t the ones who drew up the contract does not exclude casual fans from responsibility. If there had been no outcry from them, Byrnes would not have been signed to a long-term contract. That’s the main thrust of the article, and rather than “the bigger lie” you claim, it ties in with what I’ve heard from a number of other sources [see TAP’s post].
It just goes to prove that democracy is no way to run a sports team, and that applies whether it’s picking the players or choosing the colors of the shirts. If the team ignores them, it’s for a very good reason: these casual fans know, basically, jack about the business of baseball, and the opinions of the chattering classes on AZCentral.com should be completely ignored in making business decisions. Of course, wiser heads should have prevailed: but Moorad was always fond of the big gesture rather than the correct one: see also Russ Ortiz, Shawn Green, Troy Glaus, etc. We’re well rid of him, I think.
"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil
by Jim McLennan on Apr 21, 2009 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Hundreds
isn’t a very convincing figure, but I agree with your larger point.
However, asking for “casual fans” to be responsible is pointless simply because there is nothing to be responsible to. A “casual fan” doesn’t draw a paycheck or receive any compensation in relation to the Diamondbacks. At best the “casual fan” can internally check his/her opinion, but there’s not else to demand here.
The front office should be blamed, if there is actually need for blame, simply because they couldn’t make the decision from a baseball stand-point. The attempt seems to be to draw fire away from the front office, as if they were standing head-on in front of train and just couldn’t stop it or get out of the way. If I was more a tinfoil-hat kind of kind, I might wonder if that’s what a media company with interests in the Diamondbacks would be doing, but of course that would be complete speculation.
What? neh-are you se-no! No! I hh I I don't even't know what you're sayinhow whatdoyou whatdoyou talking about you want me to go away? I I I I can't no! I can't I can't just leave I - ...you can't leave me!
I read the whole thing
and have no issue with a radio host calling out individual fans for frontrunning, or even a little hypocrisy. That’s what radio hosts do. But Burns takes a self-aggrandizing flying leap by blaming fans for how badly the extension has played out. He never foresaw that. Nobody did. And now he’s copping a “Told Ya So” attitude, like he saw this coming.
But when the team do listen to the same casual fans, and act in accordance with their wishes, you attack them for doing so
By “them”, I assume you mean the FO, because I’m certainly not criticising fans. From the beginning, I have been wary but relatively neutral on the Byrnes extension, waiting for it to play out. Hoping Byrnes would roughly approximate this guy for at least a yr or two.
If there had been no outcry from [casual fans], Byrnes would not have been signed to a long-term contract.
It’s not the strident “outcry”, it’s the revenue and aggregate utility. I have no evidence Moorad even listens to talk radio, and this construction where a couple hundred “Sign Byrnes or Die” types dictated personnel moves is overstated. In the larger, revenue sense, there’s truth to it. So called casual fans drive half the club’s gate revenue, and I imagine Moorad was concerned about that, regardless of what some yahoos in EB wigs ranted about to Dave Burns. There were a ton of EB fans in 2007, alot of them kids, the vast majority who dont go near talk radio or a JB Q&A. That larger base was a legitimate consideration for Moorad – at that time, under those circumstances.
To pick up on soco’s point, this whole distinction between casual and real fans is so tenuous and polarizing. There were plenty of real fans, paying real money, in EB’s camp and they have just as much right to express their desires as anyone else. Many season ticket holders, for example. It’s not their job to be sabermetric know it alls. It’s not their job to temper pennant race enthusiasm with 30+ regressions.
Similarly, for those of us with our own narrow attentions, it’s not our job to dismissively chant “Told Ya So”, when a player fails to meet our own worst initial expectations. It’s not our job to prop ourselves up as preferred fans or saviors of the franchise. Without “casual” fans, we wouldnt even have a franchise…to revolve our pathetic lives around :-)
If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09
by Diamondhacks on Apr 21, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey 'hacks
I know sometimes we don’t agree on things, but I kind of agree about this being much more of a FO mistake than a fan mistake. I think we a can all see that the club was influenced by public opinion, but the fact that they were willing to completely change course over that pressure doesn’t necessarily speak well for their performance. Of course, other times they completely ignore what the public wants (Gonzalez, Johnson, Dunn) so I guess they’re a bit all over the place in that department.
I’d also agree that we can’t necessarily say that the Byrnes extension caused the Outfield Situation we have now. Josh Byrnes said at the last Q&A, if we can take him at his word, that they wanted to go into Spring Training 08 with people knowing what postitions they would play. Signing Brynes doesn’t mean they can’t keep Quentin for the $400,000 he made in 2008, instead Josh Byrnes made the decision to let him go. Why he did, what evaluations he looked we have no way of knowing, but somehow he came to the conclusion that the club didn’t need Quentin even though he was dirt cheap.
Signing Byrnes to his $Texas contract might have affected not keeping another expensive outfielder, but a guy who makes essentially league minimum? No, I’d think it’s more likely in this case that either Quentin wasn’t evaluated correctly or the White Sox’s coaching staff was able to have a better influence than the Diamondbacks. It wouldn’t surprise me if it was a little of both.
What? neh-are you se-no! No! I hh I I don't even't know what you're sayinhow whatdoyou whatdoyou talking about you want me to go away? I I I I can't no! I can't I can't just leave I - ...you can't leave me!
Well said
and back at ya. Sometimes I think you’re rather out there, and I’m sure the same can be said of me, and I’m fine with that. IOW, we may shake our heads on specific issues, but I admire your independent orientation – especially against a sea of conventional wisdom – and think you add some terrific insights.
Well, except for girls playing shortstop ;-)
We wont always agree, nor should we.
Ok, enuf of this silliness…Truthseekers of the Universe…DISPERSE!!!
If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09
by Diamondhacks on Apr 21, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
/clap
I remember some people saying very similar things two years ago when the signing happened. Predicting the downfall, even. I wonder where those people are now…
Fire Bob Melvin
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