To emote or not to emote? That is the question
Dan Haren showed undeniable emotion after being taken out for a pinch-hitter in the seventh inning of Friday night's game against the San Francisco Giants. There are two sides to the argument here, and I'm curious to hear what people think. It might be said that it was perfectly understandable for him to be frustrated to be removed - not because he hadn't done his job, but because the offense hadn't done its. On the other hand, it could also be thought that this is a team sport, and everyone has to accept the manager's decision on what is best for the team - even if it's not what you personally want or think should happen.
After the jump, we'll hear from Dan Haren, and also see what Steve Gilbert wrote on his blog about Haren's show of feelings...
Courtesy of Nick Piecoro, first here is Dan Haren's more detailed explanation of his reaction to being taken out of the game: "I’m not upset at the decision to take me out. Thinking about it, I regret showing emotion like that because I don’t want to show up Bo-Mel by any means. I think it’s just a culmination of everything. The fact that I felt really good and coming out after 79 pitches, I wasn’t happy and I don’t think anyone would be happy. The culmination of that and we’ve struggled to score a bit when I’m on the mound. It all came together. I regained my composure within a minute or two. I didn’t try to show up Bob by any means." I think Haren just won Understatement of the Year, for the line, "We've struggled to score a bit when I'm on the mound." Three games. One run. No kidding...
On the other hand, Steve Gilbert sees things in a different light, and it's something probably also worth quoting in full:
it was something that never should have happened, because regardless of his intent he did show up Melvin as well as his teammates. While Haren has a right to be frustrated, he's not the only one that is feeling that right now in that clubhouse. Think the hitters are happy with the way things have gone. They have been awful, they know it, and they absolutely would like to be doing better. And how about Melvin? This is his team. Think he likes watching the way the first 10 games of the season has gone? Think he would have liked to have thrown a few helmets or slammed a few bats after watching the losses pile up? Like I said, this is not meant to be a rip at Haren. He's a hard worker, a good teammate and a good guy who just got caught up in the moment. I would be willing to bet it's something you will not see from him again.
Personally, I think we'd all forgive Haren if he trashed a water-cooler or two after these starts. He's pitched his heart out trying to get the team a win, and the hitters just haven't done what they're supposed to. Pretty much anyone in any employment knows how frustrating it is, when your colleagues fail to do their part and everyone looks incompetent as a result. Now, baseball is a game predicated on failure: but not all failure is equal, and we've seen far too many poor at-bats from the Arizona batters. Swinging at pitches they should leave well alone; ignoring fastballs 'right down Broadway' - a phrase already ground into cliché by Mark Grace this season; weak groundouts and infield pop-ups have been a hallmark of our hitters.
Haren's reaction was, to me, simply a public affirmation that the offensive performances we've seen are unacceptable - as such, and since they weren't targeted at any one individual, I don't have a problem with it. I don't want to encourage excessively demonstrative behavior [paging Milton Bradley...] and nor do we want to see a Tulowitzki-esque tantrum, resulting in something self-destructive and entirely counter-productive. But to fester is bad; I don't think we can expect players only to show happy emotions e.g. when a team-mate gets a crucial hit. They're only human, after all, and disappointment is as much a human trait as exhilaration. As fans, we experience both ends of the rainbow - and, heaven knows, don't exhibit much restrain when it comes to expressing it. Why should be expect anything else from the players?
That's especially the case, since it sometimes doesn't look like we'll ever see any real emotion from RoBoMel. Even when the umpire's decision is as rank as week-old fish, he saunters out there and discusses it with them as if inquiring politely about their health or the weather. That's hardly going to make them think twice about a future decision, which I assume is part of the point of going out there. Now, while I don't know what he may be like behind the scenes, I don't get the feeling his managerial style is an authoritative one, with his players in fear of him. Given the youth of our team, I'm not sure this is necessarily the best approach: the laissez-faire style might work with a team of veterans (see Bob Brenly, 2001), but I think he's like that teacher at school who wanted to be friends with "the kids". The results were usually closer to anarchy than education.
Oops. I've drifted off-topic. Again. This wasn't intended to be an investigation of our manager's style, so let's get back on track. Players. Emotion. And negative emotion in particular. What do you think?
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I would be worried
if he didn’t react. It’s a natural process to feel emotions in those types of situations. In fact, it is comforting to me to see that come from such an even keeled player. For him to show such reactionary emotions is reassuring that the clubhouse understands this is an issue and they aren’t doing their jobs. The reaction was very much what we all have been expressing, “typical, of course I’m being pulled for someone who isn’t any better at his job right now than I am.”
As for that decision……….. BoMel is quickly wearing out my patience and his welcome. I hate making quick decisions on someone’s job this early in the campaign, but this team has made up my mind on two guys already. Upton needs work at quadruple A (or else we’ll have another Carlos Quentin on our hands) and BoMel’s style does not fit this team. I love my high school social studies teacher. I didn’t do s**t in his class.
Go DBacks!
Shut up, Gilbert
Haren is one of the few players that has been succeeding on the field, and you’re saying he shouldn’t show that he’s upset at being pulled while another player who isn’t producing is put in his place? Why, because he might upset the other players? What’ll happen, they won’t hit or score when he’s pitching? Too late, Gilbert! Too late!
(Also, I dislike the name Gilbert. Probably because it makes me think of Gilbert Blythe, and I maintain that guy could have used a punch in the face.)
I don’t know what this team needs to get it motivated. But nearly a year of his calm, even-handed approach has given us some fairly lackluster performances, so I don’t have any reason to suspect that more of the same is the way to go.
"He can't re-educate them in camps! He'd have to educate them first."
Puhlease...
Steve Gilbert does a nice job at making jabs and then slipping in sugary statements to help soften the blow. This is the worst type of journalism.
Ex.
“All that being said, it was something that never should have happened, because regardless of his intent he did show up Melvin as well as his teammates…
…
…Like I said, this is not meant to be a rip at Haren. He’s a hard worker, a good teammate and a good guy who just got caught up in the moment. I would be willing to bet it’s something you will not see from him again.”
It’s annoying because Gilbert does everything he possibly can to emote his annoyance with Haren but then dodges it and tries to act like the good guy by claiming that he doesn’t “mean” to be negative. It’s like the friend who purposefully makes you feel bad about something but then tries to counter it by saying something like, “I wasn’t trying to be mean, I was just saying…”
Look, you wouldn’t post something and say that it’s bugging you unless it truly is. Instead of trying to suck up and sound like the positive guy, just say what’s on your mind, Steve. If you don’t think he should have done it then that’s all you have to say. None of this gumdrop crap.
As for the actual matter at hand, I think Haren did the right thing. As if none of us were angry about it? He deserves to be that upset and I have absolutely no problem with him displaying his frustration. I mean, seriously, what are we talking about here? All he did was yell (to himself) and kick his feet around. He didn’t scream at the manager or lash out at his team. I think people may be getting a little too riled up about this.
Until we hear a news story that Dan Haren chucked a grenade into the clubhouse I don’t think we should be worrying about anything. These players are humans and humans have emotions. He didn’t just let it get the best of him, he let three ridiculous outings get the best of him.
And Steve, I’d be willing to take your bet that it could happen again barring another three losses without any run support. :)
Wear your own fur.
Maybe
it’s because I’m really tired, but I’m finding hard to really care about this. Feels more like something media wants to create some buzz, not anything actually relevant.
What? neh-are you se-no! No! I hh I I don't even't know what you're sayinhow whatdoyou whatdoyou talking about you want me to go away? I I I I can't no! I can't I can't just leave I - ...you can't leave me!
1.89 ERA in 3 starts + 1 total run of offensive support from his team = 0-3
I doubt Dan was even half as pissed as I was about his team’s inabiltiy to support his three outstanding efforts. I thought Dan did very well to show as little emotion as he did. I say leave the guy alone and find something else more worthy of investigating, like why the **** his teammates can’t seem to do their jobs when Dan’s on the mound.
I'm a Haren whore
When I was typing this, my computer crashed, so now i’m pissed…………. damn computer. either way back to danny I would be frustrated too, 79 pitches?! really? what is he, max scherzer now? I’m glad that there’s some emotions out of the clubhouse this season, the start to the year sucks, and with the ‘backs having a ton of games at home through April, i’m not putting a gun to my head, but i hope, really hope that the year turns out better. Go DBacks!!
"Score some damn runs, or the baby pandas die"
Nothing to add, but a bit of irony
for your Sunday morning.
On the front page (under this piece), the ads are for Red Sox tickets and “Garbage Removal”
by emilylovesthedbacks on Apr 19, 2009 11:22 AM EDT reply actions
I may be biased because I freaking love Dan Haren
But so what? He got upset, went into the clubhouse to cool down and was back in the dugout in time to see Clark’s at bat. He didn’t yell, didn’t make a scene, didn’t chew out the manager. He went in the clubhouse.
I like Haren because you can see how much it means for him to do well. It’s why we make jokes about not making Haren angry. He wants the team and himself to do well. It’s why he fumes if he feels he’s letting too many guys on base and why he seethes in the dugout after giving up a run. Then he comes out and pitches even better.
Haren wants it bad, it’s just who he is.
Babe Ruth was a jerk but baseball's still a beautiful game - Dean Winchester
Gee
These are all terrific comments, as is the initial post….I got nothing to add, really.
Well, one thing. Piggybacking on sprankton’s delicious analysis, I would say that Steve, as an adjunct of the club, furthers this notion (obsession?) of organizational “control” I brought up here.
If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09
Frankly,
I’d have to say that I’m surprised that Gilbert went so far as to criticize a member of the team…. despite being an extension of the organization. Usually MLB-sanctioned “reporters” don’t do that.
Insert witty and/or humorous signature here.
Despite?
I’d say it’s more like “because” he’s an organizational extension.
None of us, outside the org, appear to think Haren was out of line. Not under these circumstances.
But inside, Dan has done the unthinkable. He’s upset Derrick Hall’s lovingly crafted applecart – the one where cheery image trumps all, even winning and losing. As you suggest, how many other MLB scribes would go to this length to chastise a player over such an understandable reaction?
If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09
by Diamondhacks on Apr 19, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Then
they (the organization) is in for a rude awakening. The apple cart has worms in it and not one worm is a player, even if I have a dislike of a certain one and I have no idea where this analogy is going! oy!
They better be careful in trying to chastise a player, especially one who more than backs up his words/action with the work he does on the field. I think even casual fans recognize what Haren is doing out there and appreciates it.
"If you'd need to know, you'd know. but they decided that you don't need to know,so you don't. So stop thinking about what you don't know because you don't need to know what you think you need to know about!"
by unnamedDBacksfan on Apr 20, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Logic
Sure, in terms of baseball sense (particularly NL ball) I could agree with pulling the pitcher for a DH type batter when you have a runner in scoring position, I have my own reservations about its true effectiveness or how it increases the chance of victory.
However, if you want to talk strategy with this game. It comes back to the opening double by lopez, sitting on 2nd with 0 outs. With the offense being so pitiful, why not bunt him to 3rd and sacrifice him home to give haren a 1-0 lead.
We have a fast team of young players and at least 3 players with 30 sb potential and yet no one runs. It shows when last series LaRussa sends his PITCHER to an open base steal to be later knocked in for a run. Thats why LaRussa is a HOF manager and Melvin is the crap afterthought of a hire gone bad.
Let's be
fair for a second, though. LaRussa is in a tier of managers that is sparsely populated, so even if Melvin does get canned (which we can/should expect after this year if the boys don’t make the playoffs) its much more likely that another Melvin is hired instead of a LaRussa.
What? neh-are you se-no! No! I hh I I don't even't know what you're sayinhow whatdoyou whatdoyou talking about you want me to go away? I I I I can't no! I can't I can't just leave I - ...you can't leave me!
Right....
This team needs a leader, and Haren is stepping up to fill that role. Who else is going to do it right now?
Call me old fashioned
but the fact that Haren refers to his manager as “BoMel” indicates that it would be difficult for Melvin to stamp his authority on the team. Maybe the younger players used to need a manager that they liked but, I suspect that now they need a manager that can scare the s**t out of them occasionally.
'Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?'
by Arizona via Slough on Apr 19, 2009 6:11 PM EDT reply actions
Just to be clear
Hey Guys,
Appreciate the thoughts about my blog entry on Dan Haren. A couple of things I wanted to respond to:
— As for "slipping in sugary statements, what I was trying to point out is I’m not saying Dan Haren is a bad guy, but that the display of emotion should not have happened in that way at that time.
— I know a lot of people love to see that kind of emotion. I get that. But when Danny was going through his struggles in late August and early September would it have been appropriate for an outfielder to throw down his glove in disgust as a home run sailed over the fence? I mean, c’mon if breaking bats and firing helmets was all this team needed, hey I’m all for it. It’s just not that simple.
But look, I understand when your team is not playing well and you’re frustrated seeing someone show some emotion makes you feel better. I’m just saying that in a team setting it’s not the best.
Anyway, thanks for reading and for the interest.
Steve Gilbert
Maybe it's just me
I didn’t have the feeling that Haren was mad that he was being replaced by an underperforming teammate, he was mad that he was being pulled when he still felt like he had more to give. It isn’t, in my mind, akin to an outfielder throwing down his glove as his pitcher gives up a home run, but more like a player that has gone 3 for 3 on the day with a few defensive gems being frustrated that he’s getting pulled for a pinch runner in the sixth inning.
"He can't re-educate them in camps! He'd have to educate them first."
I guess
I fail to see this as anything but a non-issue. Obviously in speculation you don’t want a member of a team showing up the others or the organization, but is it actually an issue within the Diamondbacks’ dugout right now?
What? neh-are you se-no! No! I hh I I don't even't know what you're sayinhow whatdoyou whatdoyou talking about you want me to go away? I I I I can't no! I can't I can't just leave I - ...you can't leave me!
Hey Steve!
Thanks for replying! It’s pretty cool of you to come here and talk with us. Now that you’re here, let’s continue this conversation.
…would it have been appropriate for an outfielder to throw down his glove in disgust as a home run sailed over the fence? I mean, c’mon if breaking bats and firing helmets was all this team needed, hey I’m all for it. It’s just not that simple.
I knew that someone would rebuttal using this concept. The thing is, I just don’t have a problem with it. If a player on a team is frustrated with one of his teammate’s performance and drops some glaringly obvious hints that he feels that way then so be it. These guys get paid way too much to be emotionally bruised because one of their teammates is upset with them. All of these guys are grown-ups and I’m sure they can handle it.
If Justin Upton struck out in fifteen straight at-bats and Dan Haren walked over and said, ‘Come on, dude, you’re killing us." I would have no problem with it. It’s sort of like tough love. Now, I agree that a line has to be drawn somewhere. If something like that were to happen then I wouldn’t expect Haren to walk over to Upton and yell and lecture to him for twenty minutes. This is why I feel that Dan Haren wasn’t doing anything wrong by chucking his helmet. The team obviously knows why he’s upset and I doubt that anyone was offended by it. It’s perfectly acceptable.
And I was never implying that the team would benefit from it. It’s not "all this team needed’, it’s just something that Haren let go of and I thought it was a good call. He was upset, let him throw his helmet and say bad words – he’s a grown-up. Let’s only start worrying when we see him walk into the dugout and point fingers at people.
As for “slipping in sugary statements”, what I was trying to point out is I’m not saying Dan Haren is a bad guy, but that the display of emotion should not have happened in that way at that time.
It’s just weird that you can call him out on one thing and then praise him on how good of a teammate he is in the same article. Maybe that’s just me though. If it were writing in that scenario then I would have phrased it like this:
— Clarify right away so that readers understand what you’re point is. “I have always liked Dan Haren and I believe that he’s a great teammate and a hard worker but he made a bad decision in tonight’s game.” Now that you made your statement and told everyone that you’re not trying to harass him then go on and discuss what happened and why you believe so.
That way everyone knows as they read the article that your original intent is that you like Haren but you were just disappointed in the way he did things. I much prefer this method rather than adding that small addition to the end of the article, as if to say, “And just so no one gets mad at me, here’s this.” You know?
Wear your own fur.
by Marc Fournier on Apr 22, 2009 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions

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