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Looking at the Edwin Jackson trade

I don't understand this trade from the Diamondback's perspective. I blogged about the Dbacks' needs for 2010 on a my site a few days ago and I did agree that pitching must be their main focus... yet

Arizona is giving up Max Scherzer,a valuable and relatively inexpensive piece of their rotation that is under contract until 2014, for Edwin Jackson who did post excellent numbers last season but is due for a major pay raise (last season he made 2.2M and is expected to recieve 5.5M after arbitration and is arb eligible again in his final year) and goes up for free agency after 2011.

I understand the Dbacks needed to shore up their pitching but I figured it would involve finding an innings eater to shore up the #4 spot since I believe Billy Buckner could hold down the #5 spot (and if not Buckner then Mulvey or Augenstein, although that would require them to pitch in the pros to a level somewhat similar to the success they've had in the minors; something that has alluded them.  However, I do hold a bit of hope for Augenstein since he's 23 and does toss quite a few GB's when hit).

To me swapping out a young strikeout machine for one who succeeds more in terms of finding his control (Jackson who came up with the Dodgers as a young fireballer who seemed to walk everything has now found his nitch by harnessing his command in which this trend has fallen from a BB/9 4.92 in '07 to 3.78 in '08 to 2.94 last season.  Of course, Edwin Jackson will fit fine as the #3 starter on Arizona - I just don't understand giving up a very good one and one who projects to be cheaper over the next few seasons in return.  I know Detroit is in financial trouble but last I checked Arizona is also facing financial pressure and needs to discern where their projected payroll is heading.

The other piece of this trade headed to AZ is Ian Kennedy.  I've always liked Kennedy and figured the Bronx wasn't a good match for him.  Kennedy did undergo a major non-baseball related surgery to his pitching which seemed to cause no ill effects (in fact his velocity did go up a tick after waddling between 88-90 mph in previous seasons), Kennedy is a flyball pitcher which could get him in trouble at Chase Field but he has posted very good K/BB rates in both the minors and his brief stint in the AFL a few months ago. 

I guess by giving up Scherzer they needed another rotation possibility; however, I can't help but think the D-backs are in the same position they were a few days ago... solid options from #1-3 but question marks as to who will be their #4 and #5 pitchers; this is the same situation however with a slightly higher payroll... I know we are only talking a few million here but outside of NY and LA (maybe LA isn't a good example given the McCourt divorce that seems pending) I would think a team like AZ would have to maximize their resources and look to utilize whatever limited money they have on improving this team overall.  It just seems odd to me.

BTW: keep an eye on the two "prospects" that are reqiured to be shipped to the Yankees.  I know they probably won't be major high-upside guys but AZ did give Ross Ohlendorf away as part of the let-us-take-him-off-your-hands Randy Johnson trade.  Just thought I'd pitch that in.

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maybe Kennedy is

the second coming of Carl Pavano. Jackson, in the opinion of some (ymmv) is an upgrade over Scherzer and the loss of Scherzer and Schlereth (another #1 pick) is a net gain off the books when you add Kennedy into the #4/5 SP mix with Augenstein, Buckner and Mulvey. Call this a hedging your bets move, as some have opined that the delivery styles of both Scherzer and Schlerth would suggest arm trouble sooner, rather than later. There is a contract balance issue at play here as well that may have entered into the thinking that this deal allows money to now be spent elsewhere.

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Dec 8, 2009 4:09 PM EST reply actions  

If you assume that Kennedy is our #4 next year

Which the organization is assuming, and which is a safe assumption given that he’s leaving the Bronx, going back to close by where he’s from (California), and had some darn good AAA numbers last year, then you get a net 4th starter and 3rd starter upgrade for $4.2M, 3 years of control on the #3 starter (the biggest thing we gave up), and Schlereth, who needs to develop some control before he can be anywhere near effective.

Most Depressing Math Question Ever courtesy of Probability class: "Clark and Anthony are two old friends. Let A be the event that Clark will attend Anthony's funeral. Let B be the event that Anthony will attend Clark's funeral. Are A and B independent? Why or why not?"

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 8, 2009 5:30 PM EST reply actions  

2010 Salaries

Jackson and Kennedy will fill the #3 and #4 slots for around $5-6M combined, while Scherzer plus a Penny/Marquis-type FA would cost around $8-10M. The key is whether Kennedy can live up to his minor league stats.

by Amit on Dec 8, 2009 6:31 PM EST reply actions  

Good view

I agree of most everything.

Biggest factors to me here are difference is strikout rate, service time, and fit.

1. There is debate as to whether Scherzer or Jackson is better going forward. Injuries aside, I think the best indicator for a young pitcher (but with a decent enough sample size) is whether he can make batters swing and miss. There is a clear winner here.

2. Service time is also not close. Having Kennedy for so long helps cushion the blow, but he is one of the lessor players here. The difference between Max and Edwin in team control is upsetting.

3. How well does this fit? Edwin takes Max’s place; close enough to a push for next year. Kennedy takes ???. Is he better than Buckner? Augestine? Mulvey? Maybe, but I’d take the field over Kennedy at this point. Particurly as he is a flyball pitcher coming to the second best hitters park in the majors. He also is seen as a command guy and low on “stuff”. That translates to better success in the minors than in the majors.

Finally, we’ve lost roughly half of the war chest we had reserved for the off-season. I guess it can all go to a batter or reliever at this point, but it doesnt seem like enough to offset the long term hit we’ll be taking here.

by Counsellmember on Dec 8, 2009 6:49 PM EST reply actions  

Kennedy's AAA Stats

Take a look at Kennedy’s stats in the minors:
AAA: 7-4, 2.14 ERA, 131K/35BB, 6 HR in 126.1 IP
AA: 5-1, 2.59 ERA, 57K/17BB, 2 HR in 48.2 IP
AFL 2009: 28K/5BB/2 HR in 29.2 IP

That’s much more impressive than anything that Buckner/Mulvey/Augenstein have done. Kennedy should be in the rotation.

by Amit on Dec 8, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

He'll get the chance

They are definately impressive. But it worries me that scouts say he has good “feel” but not “stuff”. That kind of pitcher sometimes has a hard time making that transition.

Kennedy in Majors: 6.03 ERA, 42K/37BB, 6HR in 59.2 IP

I also am suspect of why the Yankees kept Kennedy in the minors if he was so good. Did they not want to take away starts from Aceves or Gaudin?

And, for comparison:
Schlereth in the minors: AA 1.10 ERA, 39K/16BB, 1 HR in 26.2 IP.

I agree Kennedy has excellent numbers. I have hope.

by Counsellmember on Dec 8, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

2009 Injury

Aceves and Gaudin were pitching because Kennedy was out with the arm aneurysm. He didn’t return until late September, and then also pitched in the AFL.

The problem with Schlereth’s minor league numbers are the walks – too high, even in AAA.

by Amit on Dec 8, 2009 7:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

Augenstein’s AA numbers this year would beg to differ about the “anything” term in that phrasing. But overall, yes.

Most Depressing Math Question Ever courtesy of Probability class: "Clark and Anthony are two old friends. Let A be the event that Clark will attend Anthony's funeral. Let B be the event that Anthony will attend Clark's funeral. Are A and B independent? Why or why not?"

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 8, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Elaborate?

How is Tiger Woods like a baby seal?

They both get clubbed by Scandinavians.

by DbacksSkins on Dec 8, 2009 8:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Scherzer will be nothing less than a #2 starter. He’s younger, cheaper, and has a higher ceiling. Jackson is apparently coming off a fluke season and is due up for a big paycheck.

Schlereth will be at the very least be a very good setup man in his peak. He should be ready for the big by the AS break as well. Ian Kennedy… sucks. A lot.

by CaptainCanuck on Dec 8, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Scherzer will be nothing less than a #2 starter. He’s younger, cheaper, and has a higher ceiling.

“Will be nothing less than a #2 starter”? Whoooa there. Don’t count your pitchers before they hatch; most experts disagree with you. He’s also only younger than Jackson by a year, and Jackson doesn’t have the extensive injury history and the strong future injury risk that Scherzer does.

Schlereth will be at the very least be a very good setup man in his peak. He should be ready for the big by the AS break as well.

“Will be at the very least…”? Again, you seem to be pretty certain that every Dbacks prospect was destined for greatness. Also, Schlereth broke into the bigs LAST year, in case you didn’t notice.

Oh yeah… and Daniel Schlereth sucked. A lot. Like, 5.89 ERA in the NL West sucked. Kennedy can start, Schlereth can’t. The league’s best relievers are only marginally more valuable than the league’s worst starters, and what do you think the odds are that Kennedy will be the worst starter and Schlereth will be the best reliever??

Not to mention Schlereth’s an injury risk, as well….

How is Tiger Woods like a baby seal?

They both get clubbed by Scandinavians.

by DbacksSkins on Dec 8, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

In all fairness...

Kennedy can start but so could Joel Adamson. Between the injuries and ineffectiveness in the Majors(small sample size I know and a move to the NL will help) I’m down on Kennedy. The Yankees went with a 3 man rotation for a reason and Kennedy didn’t do anything to make them change their mind.

I just can’t get excited for 2 years of Edwin Jackson who has been a relative flop before catching lighting in a bottle last year. I just don’t like trading for guys coming off a career year.

Schlereth is left handed and I hate giving up on those guys early but his control is concerning.

by Augie's Army on Dec 8, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Danny Haren

was coming off a career year, too.

How is Tiger Woods like a baby seal?

They both get clubbed by Scandinavians.

by DbacksSkins on Dec 10, 2009 12:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I've said that at some point...

But it’s been lost in the billions of comments on this trade…

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 11, 2009 12:50 AM EST up reply actions  

“most experts disagree with you.”

And that would be? Besides, you don’t think Scherzer can be an ace?

“you seem to be pretty certain that every Dbacks prospect was destined for greatness.”

I never said that. I only addressed two people.

“Schlereth broke into the bigs LAST year, in case you didn’t notice.”

And? Relievers tend to be ready for the bigs faster than starters and position players.

“Kennedy can start”

That doesn’t mean he’s any good at it.

“The league’s best relievers are only marginally more valuable than the league’s worst starters”

Mo is only marginally better than Adam Eaton?

“Not to mention Schlereth’s an injury risk, as well….”

So is Kennedy, and has already shown us this, whereas Schlereth hasn’t.

Do you honestly prefer Jackson with his apparent fluky season and future salary, and Kennedy over Max and Schlereth?

by CaptainCanuck on Dec 9, 2009 1:30 AM EST up reply actions  

To be fair

Schlereth has shown he’s an injury risk- Tommy John surgery in high school, he missed a month in 2007 due to a rib/oblique injury, and spent time on the DL this season with a rib injury again.

"I can just see it: Post 'Intervention? Why would I need an intervention?' And then he'd +1 himself."

by kishi on Dec 9, 2009 1:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Rib injuries aren't really a huge concern for pitchers.

I did not know about the TJS, but that was in high school and I’m sure he’s done some tweaking in his delivery. I’d still much rather have him over Kennedy.

by CaptainCanuck on Dec 9, 2009 2:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Nobody would rather have Daniel Schlereth over Ian Kennedy.

Starters with #3/#4 (as our organization thinks – they sent our entire front office to go watch one of his AFL starts and came away supremely impressed) or even #4/#5 ceilings (as most scouts tend to think) are more valuable than closers. It’s just true. Look at the WAR. It’s why we forced Scherzer into the rotation even though his best “fit” was in the bullpen – it was just the most value from him.

Most Depressing Math Question Ever courtesy of Probability class: "Clark and Anthony are two old friends. Let A be the event that Clark will attend Anthony's funeral. Let B be the event that Anthony will attend Clark's funeral. Are A and B independent? Why or why not?"

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 9, 2009 8:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Indeed. The question is not whether or not Schlereth is more valuable than Kennedy. The question is how much more valuable is Kennedy than Schlereth. That’s an open question that only time will tell.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Dec 9, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

in all fairness

I believe WAR really undervalues elite top tier closers/relievers. That being said Schlereth isn’t an elite top tier closer/reliever, nor will he be.

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Dec 10, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions  

If he's done tweaking in his delivery,

It certainly hasn’t helped him avoid injuries.

Who does that sound like? Aside from Schlereth, how about Scherzer? TJ surgery in H.S., but still had chronic elbow problems in college and up until reaching the majors.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 11, 2009 12:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Then

Why was he drafted that high? Why was he given that big bonus?

by paqs on Dec 11, 2009 2:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Because

If he develops secondary pitches, he is already a #2 by now. And he also had some further injury quirks in the minors, IIRC. And getting a top-flight closer downside with the 11th pick is pretty good, don’t you say? That’s why he slid there despite his upside.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 11, 2009 4:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Remember

that Schlereth ALSO got injured in 2008, RIGHT AFTER WE DRAFTED HIM IN THE FIRST ROUND.

That’s part of why so many people were annoyed about that draft pick.

How is Tiger Woods like a baby seal?

They both get clubbed by Scandinavians.

by DbacksSkins on Dec 10, 2009 12:19 AM EST up reply actions  

That's right

So, that’s three consecutive seasons with injuries for Schlereth, and at least part of it they know is because of his delivery, which is going to be a constant problem for him.

I’m disappointed to see the guy go, because his dad is awesome, but the guy doesn’t have the most durable track record.

"I can just see it: Post 'Intervention? Why would I need an intervention?' And then he'd +1 himself."

by kishi on Dec 10, 2009 12:45 AM EST up reply actions  

in my opinion

Schlereth was a terrible first round pick. Huge overdraft in weak draft class so I don’t really fault the FO on that one.

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Dec 10, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

They wanted some MLB value

Because we felt we were still close to a pennant run and wanted some immediate help. Then he got hurt and couldn’t provide immediate help… But yes, his performance since being picked has demonstrated him as being a horrendous choice.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 11, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions  

What performance?

He lit up the minors and got to the majors in a year. He walked one too many guys in the majors, but he’s hardly the first rookie to do that.

by paqs on Dec 11, 2009 2:55 AM EST up reply actions  

One too many?

Puh-lease. He was atrocious. And the difference between the minors and majors with Schlereth is that in the minors, hitters aren’t good enough to lay off of his ridiculously-far-moving curve. In the majors, they are. That GREATLY limits his effectiveness.

Also, your “what performance?” comment proves my point. He was drafted as a reliever in the first round in 2008. That means that he is expected to be in the majors by the end of THAT YEAR. You don’t take first-round no-starter-opportunity relievers otherwise.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 11, 2009 4:13 AM EST up reply actions  

It's

18 innings for a guy who’s a year out of college.

Please give me a full list of players who were good in the majors less than a year after they were drafted. You’re telling me if you draft a reliever in the first round, he’s supposed to be in the majors in two months? That’s insane.

If you’re ready to quit on a guy after 18 innings, no prospect would ever make it.

Also, to stay true to form, Schlereth FIP last year was 4 :)

by paqs on Dec 11, 2009 7:05 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

The minor league numbers highlight it for me. Look at that K rate! It is unreal. I think they sold way low and/or didnt give him enough time. I’m almost more disappointed about letting Schereth go than Scherzer.

by Counsellmember on Dec 11, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

This is because

The players in AAA that are swinging at his curve aren’t the same hitters who lay off of it and take walks in the major leagues.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 12, 2009 1:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Hmmm

I won’t argue he struggled with his command. But…

K/9 AA= 13.16 23IP
K/9 AAA= 9.0 1IP
K/9 MLB= 10.8 18IP

Those are utterly dominant. There is no way to spin this differently. And in his first year! Give the kid some credit. He may not quite be ready for the 8th or 9th innigns, but how can you argue with what he might be?

by Counsellmember on Dec 12, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Here's how

Minor-league totals: 60 K / 23 BB
Major-league totals: 22 K / 15 BB

gulp Less than 2:1 K/BB from a bullpen arm? And this is factoring in his greatest strength, just to show you how bad of a problem his control is.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 12, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

22K in 18IP

In the majors in his first year in professional baseball.

You can correct a pitcher’s flaws, you can’t give him better stuff. Just because he was in college, and considered “polished” in compaison to other draftees, doesn’t mean he doesn’t have something to learn in MLB.

by Counsellmember on Dec 12, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

For a ticking time bomb

Due to his throwing motion, you’d better effing hope he’s polished. Because he ain’t gonna be around much longer.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 13, 2009 1:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Tim Lincecum

has 2 Cy Youngs with his delivery.

Howabout this IHSB; I’ll admit he’ll probably be hurt if you admit he might be great.

Then we can put this whole nasty business behind us. :)

by Counsellmember on Dec 13, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Tim Lincecum

has 2 Cy Youngs BECAUSE he has an awkward delivery.

It’s like how Dontrelle Willis won the ROTY BECAUSE he has a stupid delivery.

Even Satan thinks Scott Boras is evil.

by DbacksSkins on Dec 13, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Well...

Considering that you can’t be great if you get hurt, and even if you don’t get hurt you might not be great, that would be a mighty small “might.” But fine.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 13, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

You pretty much made my point

18 innings. In a year and a half. And YES, hat’s what you look for when you draft college relief pitchers in the first round. Up to the majors for a September call-up that year to help for a playoff run. They’re supposed to be quick-sign, quick-to-the-majors. Injuries made that not happen with Schlereth. Also, in total in a year and a half, he’s thrown 58 innings. He had injuries all throughout college. He just can not stay healthy. Worse delivery than Max.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 12, 2009 1:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Please

give me some examples.

by paqs on Dec 14, 2009 6:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Well

Allow me to back off on my statement a little bit. Yes, that’s what WE look for when WE draft college relief pitchers in the first round. The Diamondbacks are notorious for aggressively pushing guys to the majors, because they have to be to an extent. Especially looking back to 2008, our bullpen was in tatters after seeing a bunch of guys leave after ‘07. We needed another arm, and we picked Schlereth as that guy. He got hurt and couldn’t be that guy.

This year’s guy, Drew Storen, was signed too late. But count on him to be closing for the Nationals at some point next season, something Schlereth failed to do. Found this scouting report on Lincecum:

“An undersized right-hander, turned down going pro as a draft-eligible sophomore and it’s paid off. He’s skyrocketed to the top of the first round thanks to a dominating junior season. The PAC-10 career leader in strikeouts, he has an unorthodox delivery, leading some to worry about durability. He’s got a plus fastball and plus, plus curve, leading some to compare him to Roy Oswalt. If put in the pen, he could help a big league club out this season.”

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 15, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

That quote is

designed to say how good his stuff is. No one is going to put Lincecum in the pen and waste service time.

Yes, college relievers are close to being major league ready, but I have NEVER heard of a prospect helping a big league club 2-3 months after he signed.

Storen might be better than Schlereth, I have no idea, but the Nats are terrible, and we have a closer already, so Schlereth was never going to close for us this year. He got to the majors and had some walk and BABIP issues, but his stuff is still amazing. We’ll just have to see what happens with him.

by paqs on Dec 16, 2009 3:06 AM EST up reply actions  

If the Giants were in a tight playoff run

They absolutely would. If trading three prospects for Cliff Lee is a wise investment so that Seattle can make a run at a pennant, why isn’t it smart to put one prospect in the ’pen for a few months to make a run at a pennant?

Schlereth isn’t going to close for anybody this year. But yes, it’s a wait-and-see guy, because he could be a closer, or he could be a LOOGY.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 16, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Again

I need examples. I’m sure there were plenty of teams in playoff races who drafted pitchers in the first round, but I’ve never heard of a pitcher pitching in the majors two months after he is drafted, let alone closing.

by paqs on Dec 17, 2009 2:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Didn't Mike Morgan

pitch in the majors the same season he was drafted?

"The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, 'I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it.'"

by DbacksSkins on Dec 17, 2009 3:10 AM EST up reply actions  

What's even more impressive

is the fact that he was drafted right out of high school, not college.

"The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, 'I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it.'"

by DbacksSkins on Dec 17, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

If I had time

I’d try to find one, but I just know that’s what the D-Backs were hoping for and they didn’t get it. They didn’t even have him available by Opening Day of ’09.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 17, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

That's not what they were hoping for

They hoped he would rise through the minors fast, and less than a year is very, very fast.

If they wanted him up in the same year they would have started him in AA or AAA, not ROOKIE LEAGUE.

by paqs on Dec 18, 2009 2:57 AM EST up reply actions  

He started in Missoula?

Really? I thought he started in South Bend for some reason.

"The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, 'I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it.'"

by DbacksSkins on Dec 18, 2009 3:08 AM EST up reply actions  

2008

3 IP in rookie league, 9 IP in A ball.

Yeah, they wanted him in the majors, but he was just short.

by paqs on Dec 18, 2009 7:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Fine.... You win.

I am, however, still not thrilled about this trade nor am I happy with how many years we could get out of Jackson.

by CaptainCanuck on Dec 13, 2009 3:19 AM EST up reply actions  

well Jackson has

posted back to back winning seasons, one with the Jays and one with the Tigers. His walks have decreased and his K’s are up. Maybe it isn’y a career year and the guy is simply developing into a quality pitcher. At least that is the hope. Kennedy looked good in the AFL, the anuerism is seen as a fluke injury when compared to issues with shoulders and elbows. Not everyone thrives in NY, just ask Randy Johnson and Carl Pavano.

I too wanted to see Schlereth and Scherzer develop but I really think that the pundits get way too caught up in potential while overlooking actual performance, Max had a good intro in 2008 and was winless, 2009 showed he had issues pitching to contact and indicated that he had not developed another quality pitch he could rely on as of yet. Daniel has filthy stuff, the problem is, if it’s so far out of the strike zone, who’s gonna swing at it? Will Max develop another pitch, maybe, Will daniel be able to find his control, perhaps. Both have been tagged for the strain that they place on their arms due to their motions, averages say, those guys break down more often.

What isn’t mentioned is that the club must believe that they are close to contending. They get back their top pitcher and their best contact hitter. So they see the opportunity to succeed now and are making cost effective moves to get there.

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Dec 9, 2009 12:26 AM EST reply actions  

Rays,

not Jays. Otherwise, yes.

How is Tiger Woods like a baby seal?

They both get clubbed by Scandinavians.

by DbacksSkins on Dec 9, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

One thing I haven't heard mentioned much

Jackson was actually drafted as an outfielder. I think it’s fair to say his learning curve, and scope for improvement, is likely greater than Scherzer.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Dec 9, 2009 11:20 AM EST reply actions  

Excellent question

Who has more potential to grow? Scherzer with only one full major league season under his belt? Or Jackson who I think has spent less time overall pitching? The answer to that question is at the crux of the debate here. I still lean toward Scherzer, but it’s probably close either way.

Does anyone have data on Jackson’s batting prowess? I dont see any significant numbers on the easy sites I check like Fangraphs.

by Counsellmember on Dec 9, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Austin Jackson or Edwin Jackson? I assume you mean Edwin. If so, he only has 30 career ABs with a 133/212/133 line.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Dec 9, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, but

As Jim mentioned, he (Edwin) was drafted as an outfielder. I dont remember where I read that over the last two days of furious postings and readings. I assume he was a pitching/hitting prospect, who quickly focused on pitching once signed.

And those 30AB all appear to have come from pitching outtings with the Dodgers. I think any real batting numbers would be pre-draft.

by Counsellmember on Dec 9, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep. You’re right on. I suspect he can develop into a classic AZ good hitting pitcher.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Dec 9, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

He was drafted out of high school

So I haven’t been able to find any numbers for him.

"I can just see it: Post 'Intervention? Why would I need an intervention?' And then he'd +1 himself."

by kishi on Dec 9, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow

I have never heard this. And yet wasn’t he in the majors at 19?

Most Depressing Math Question Ever courtesy of Probability class: "Clark and Anthony are two old friends. Let A be the event that Clark will attend Anthony's funeral. Let B be the event that Anthony will attend Clark's funeral. Are A and B independent? Why or why not?"

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 9, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's a bit more info

From a 2003 piece in Baseball America:

First spotted by Dodgers scouts Jim Lester (now with the Pirates) and Lon Joyce when he was a center fielder at Shaw High in Columbus, Ga., Jackson also was the No. 3 starter behind Nick Long, now an Expos prospect, and Steven Register, now Auburn’s closer. Jackson reached 91 mph at the time, but Joyce’s first instinct was to make the most of his athleticism and bat potential in the outfield. The Dodgers weren’t sure which direction his career would head, so they allowed him to DH when he wasn’t pitching during in the Rookie-level Gulf Coast League in 2001. They abandoned any thoughts of developing him as an outfielder the following spring, and his career took off.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Dec 9, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, well.

That was much less exciting than I had hoped. No Owings v.2 then.

Thanks for digging that up, Jim.

by Counsellmember on Dec 9, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

From that article:

He’s the best homegrown pitching prospect the Dodgers have developed since Pedro Martinez, and they don’t plan on letting this one get away.
LOLZ! Anyways, that he DH’ed in rookie-ball isn’t a huge deal… Not going to be a Micah. But he perhaps could be a Danny Haren, which can be useful.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 9, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

block-quoteFAIL

Only the first two lines are the quote…. Obviously…. I doubt that that article would include the phrase “LOLZ”…

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by IHateSouthBend on Dec 9, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmmm....

I knew that he was a converted position player, but I didn’t know any of the details.

How is Tiger Woods like a baby seal?

They both get clubbed by Scandinavians.

by DbacksSkins on Dec 9, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Jackson's hitting

In 2001 in the Gulf Coast League, Jackson hit .308/.379/.423 (8-26) with 1 HR and 2 RBI. He also went 8-21 with 3 HR in Las Vegas in 2004 , and 5-16 in LV in 2005. His career batting line in the minors is .250/.282/.362 with 4 HR in 104 AB (4 BB/ 27 K).

He hasn’t done much batting as a pro, but it looks like he could be a decent hitting pitcher.

by Amit on Dec 9, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

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