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Active players: who's going to Cooperstown?

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Merry Christmas! Through the wonders of pre-scheduled posting, this gift to you on this snowy morning (note: snow subject to availability) comes as I am still tucked up in bed, unwrapping presents, nibbling on cookies, or flicking through the channels in search of a Yule log.

With the results of this year's Hall of Fame voting due to be announced on January 6th, here's something for you to contemplate in between decking the halls and fa-la-la-la-la-ing. What currently active players do you think will make it to Cooperstown after the end of their career? After the jump, I'll give you my list of the thirty I think have got the best shot at a plaque in the Hall.

Star-divide

The first thing we have to do is decide how many players are we looking for? At any given time, the number playing who end up in the Hall of Fame is surprisingly high. Before looking into this, I'd have expected maybe a dozen HoFers to be playing in any season, but it has generally been a lot more than that over the history of the game. The graph below plots the number of active players in the Hall of Fame against the year - note that "active" can mean as little as a single at-bat or inning pitched.

Hof_medium

From the end of WW2 through 1984, the number was never less than 29 or more than 39. The all-time peak is 1928-29, when fifty-six would eventually be in Cooperstown. It's startling when you consider that in 1928, only 505 players appeared in the majors, so almost one in nine ended up enshrined. The most on a single team in one year is nine, several times by the Yankees in the inter-war era. Their 1931 team may have been the most HoF-friendly ever, with an everyday lineup including six future inductees (C Bill Dickey, 1B Lou Gehrig, 2B Tony Lazzeri, 3B Joe Sewell, OF Earle Combs and Babe Ruth) and 102 starts from pitchers Lefty Gomez, Herb Pennock and Red Ruffin. Yet they didn't even make the post-season, finishing 13.5 games back of Philadelphia, who "only" had five HoFers: Mickey Cochrane, Jimmie Foxx, Lefty Grove, Waite Hoyt and Al Simmons.

Numbers have steadily declined since 1982, in part due to a smaller pool from which to draw. I also suspect doubts about the steroid era will make it harder for players who flourished then to get the necessary votes. My first thought was to pick 30 active players; one for each team. This appealed, because it would mean I'd get to stiff Lincecum on the 2009 Giants, in favor of the Big Unit. That lasted until I looked at the 2009 Pirates roster: tumbleweeds roll across the field there, with regard to potential inductees. My next thought was 25, matching roster-size, and picking current players to fill it. However, a normal roster typically has seven relievers and five starters, when it's a lot harder for bullpen guys to get into Cooperstown, so would end up being contrived or unrealistic.

In the end, I decided we should revert back to 30, but split it up differently. I'd pick ten players near the end of their career; ten in their prime; and ten players who are just starting off, who I think have the best changes to reach the Hall of Fame in due course. The dividing line I've used to decide the categories is simply age-based. Anyone 35 or older goes into the "veteran" group, and anyone 25 or younger is classified as a youngster, with their age being taken as at June 30th, 2009.  Everyone else goes into the middle group. For each, I've added a few quick comments with regard to their candidacy. Note that I'm concentrating on numbers which seem to factor in HoF consideration: HR and Wins are more important than OBP and WHIP.

Twilight of Idols

Easiest to judge are those whose careers are (more or less) winding down, because we can get the best handle on their complete accomplishments. I would be astonished if the vast majority of the players below do not find their way into Cooperstown, and it's quite possible all ten might do so eventually.

  1. Randy Johnson
    303 wins. Including the post-season, over 5,000 K's, second all-time. Five Cy Youngs - and should have had at least one more. Any questions?
  2. Mariano Rivera
    Career ERA+ of 202, the highest in baseball history by any pitcher with 1,000 IP. The next best is all the way down at 154.
  3. Chipper Jones
    426 HR, behind only Mickey Mantle and Eddie Murray among switch-hitters, with a career OPS+ of 143 and six top-ten MVP finishes. 
  4. Pedro Martinez
    After the past few injury-ravaged years, easy to forget his total dominance: in 199 starts from 1997-2003, he went 118-36, with a 2.20 ERA and 0.94 WHIP.
  5. Ken Griffey Jr.
    Active home-run leader at 630, a monstrous 152 OPS+ during the nineties, part of a streak of 17 consecutive years above 100.
  6. Ivan Rodriguez
    Thirteen Gold Gloves, more than any position player bar Brooks Robinson. Seven Silver Sluggers. One MVP. OPS+ of 120 from 1995-2004. By a catcher.
  7. Ichiro Suzuki
    Nine seasons, All-Star games, Gold Gloves and times with 200+ hits. Gave everyone a year's start and still had ninety more hits this decade than anyone else. 
  8. Trevor Hoffman
    All-time saves leader, career ERA+ of 147 (4th best, min. 1,000 IP). Injury in 2003 cost him a chance for 15 straight 30-save years.
  9. Manny Ramirez
    No denying the talent or numbers here, but will a widely-perceived bad attitude and the 50-game drug ban hurt his cause at all?
  10. Jim Thome
    One of the most intimidating hitters ever, should end up in the all-time top ten for HR - and without a whisper to connect him to any drug lab.

Prime Time

These are not quite as certain locks as the first group, because there is still a chance injury or other unforeseen circumstances could derail their career. However, they are among the best in the game, and have been so for long enough that I am fairly confident, if they continue a normal arc, their overall numbers will be worthy.

  1. Albert Pujols
    .314 BA. .955 OPS. 32 HR. 103 RBI. 9th in the MVP voting. Those are Albert's worst season numbers since he made his debut in 2001.
  2. Chase Utley
    Only three 2B in the modern era have had a career OPS over .900 at their age 30 season. Rogers Hornsby, Nap Lajoie and Utley.
  3. Alex Rodriguez
    The likely future home-run king, steroids may have dented his crown somewhat, but will probably merely delay his induction.
  4. Roy Halladay
    Five Top 5 Cy Young finishes, and 148 wins - after 12 seasons on a team that finished third or worse in the division all but once.
  5. CC Sabathia
    136 wins already. Since 1980, just Dwight Gooden had more by age 28. Might have a shot at 300, especially if he stays in New York.
  6. Miguel Cabrera
    Six men had 200+ HR and a career BA above .310 at age 26. Four (Aaron, Mantle, Foxx, Ott) are in Cooperstown. Pujols + Cabrera are the others.
  7. Johan Santana
    Career ERA+ is 143, trailing only Pedro among active starters, as is his W% of .670. Four times in the top three for Cy Young voting.
  8. Joe Mauer
    His career BA of .327 is #1 all time at the position. Last season's .365 has been beaten once by a qualifying catcher since 1895.
  9. Francisco Rodriguez
    Saves may be over-rated, but only Rod Beck (260) had more to age 30 than K-Rod's current 243. Oh, and Francisco won't turn 30 until 2012. 
  10. Brandon Webb
    Webb's chances may depend on where he ends up after next season - and his shoulder holding up. Career ERA+ of 142 is 3rd among active starters.

Young Guns

For obvious reasons, this is the hardest part of all, because so much can happen to a young player: injuries can derail any career, and early promise can just easily flame out. Conversely, players can be late bloomers, such as Cooperstown resident Kirby Puckett, who through age 25 had an OPS+ of only 86. Similarly, over Randy Johnson's first four years, taking him to his 28th birthday, the Big Unit had made 98 starts and his ERA+ was hardly special, at only 99. He had led the American League the previous two years...but in walks, not strikeouts. Now, of course, he's a first-ballot lock. So it's possible there are gems of talent still currently buried in mediocrity. Or even Pittsburgh.

You'll notice a heavy (in fact, near-complete) National League bias, and also a skewing toward the NL West. This wasn't intentional, but I think simply reflects that those are, far and away, the young players I see most, and to whom I pay greatest attention. As a result, I will be particularly interested to see what other suggestions people might have in this area.

  1. Tim Lincecum
    Every pitcher to win multiple Cy Youngs is/will be in the HOF, except Denny McLain. If Timmy can avoid the off-field issues, he'll join them.
  2. Justin Upton
    Since 1901, seventeen qualifying players 21 or younger have had an OPS of .899 or better. Of the dozen now eligible for Cooperstown, ten are in.
  3. Hanley Ramirez
    Only three SS in history have had 100 HR by their age 25 season. A-Rod, Ripken and Hanley. At .316, his BA is the best of that trio.
  4. Zack Greinke
    Exploded from serviceable starter to near-unanimous Cy Young winner this year. Could be one of those late bloomers.
  5. Prince Fielder
    Youngest player ever to have a 50-homer season, only one in the third category to have four 25 HR years already.
  6. Ryan Braun
    At 143, best career OPS+ of players in this group. 3-for-3 in thirty HR years and a .308 career BA, despite a move to the outfield.
  7. Jair Jurrjens
    At age 23, his ERA+ is 130 - as context, Pedro Martinez and Roger Clemens at the same age were 128 and 134 respectively.
  8. Clayton Kershaw
    One other pitcher in baseball history has thrown 250+ ML innings by age 21, while striking out more than a batter per inning.
  9. Huston Street
    Two closers ever (K-Rod and Gregg Olson) have picked up more saves by the end of their age 25 season than Street's 129.
  10. Pablo Sandoval
    At 137, has a better OPS+ than Hank Aaron (134), Lou Gehrig (133) or Reggie Jackson (126) did at the same point in their careers.
Poll
Which Diamondback on the current roster do you think has the best chance of making the Hall of Fame?
Mark Reynolds
23 votes
Justin Upton
160 votes
Brandon Webb
105 votes
Someone else
8 votes
None of them
63 votes

359 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 29 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Part

of the decline in HoF numbers might simply be sportswriters having more stringent standards. A guy like Mark Grace might have similar numbers to other first basemen in the Hall on a historical scale, but since he wasn’t the best of his era, he’ll likely never be enshrined.

I pretty much agree with all of the names you put up there. Maybe I’ll come up with more over the course of the day.

An early departure? What are the chances of that? If this was a movie, there wouldn't be an early departure.

by soco on Dec 25, 2009 11:09 AM EST reply actions  

Where's Curt?

He belongs on that Top-Ten list far more than PM. . .

by NASCARbernet on Dec 25, 2009 12:52 PM EST reply actions  

He's not there for one very good reason

He’s not an active player. =)

"I can just see it: Post 'Intervention? Why would I need an intervention?' And then he'd +1 himself."

by kishi on Dec 25, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that would make a difference. . .

but a lot of those guys on that last are pretty moribund career-wise right now, figuratively speaking of course.

by NASCARbernet on Dec 25, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

But there’s a difference between guys who should retire and Curt, who did officially retire before the 2009 season.

"I can just see it: Post 'Intervention? Why would I need an intervention?' And then he'd +1 himself."

by kishi on Dec 25, 2009 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

As noted, Schilling alreay retired

However, can you explain your reasoning there a bit more?
Pedro Martinez: career record 219-100, ERA+ 154, 3,154 K in 2,827 IP
Curt Schilling: career record 216-146, ERA+ 127, 3,116 K in 3,261 IP

Why does Schilling belong in the HoF “far more” than Martinez?

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Dec 25, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I was going to say...

Pedro enjoyed two of the best pitching seasons in history in the early part of this decade.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 25, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

HoF

is far different than The Vatican…. If you are looking for saints, look to the Vatican

"If there's nothing wrong with me, maybe there's something wrong with the universe!"

by unnamedDBacksfan on Dec 25, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Fabulous point

someplace.

If PM’s numbers are similar to Curt’s, and Curt won with guile and defeated people regularly with conventional although superb pitches, then Curt is by far the better pitcher. He did it without resorting to intimidation and fear, he did it by actually bettering his opponents. That’s why I say he should be in the Hall.

Oh, and by the way, how are the bad guys of baseball doing in the Hall voting? Barry, anyone?

by NASCARbernet on Dec 25, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Since when

Is Pedro Martinez a bad guy in baseball? Pitching inside and using intimidation is part of the game, ask Randy Johnson.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 25, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

or Bob Gibson.
(sorry, my age is showing)

Key to the game: Score More

by pygalgia on Dec 26, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions  

If PM’s numbers are similar to Curt’s, sure. But while Curt put up some good numbers, Pedro beats him in career ERA by a half point, his winning percentage is nearly 100 points higher, and he’s got three Cy Youngs to Curt’s zero. I mean, Pedro led the league in ERA five years out of seven from 1997 to 2003- I don’t think Curt ever had a stretch where he was that dominant.

"I can just see it: Post 'Intervention? Why would I need an intervention?' And then he'd +1 himself."

by kishi on Dec 25, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

A lot of people would take exception that Schilling is a better guy than Pedro. And Pedro is in a different stratosphere in terms of level of dominance. The guy was the best pitcher on the planet for about 5 straight years. Schilling was never the best pitcher in baseball, and maybe one of the top five for only a few years.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Dec 26, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Off the field, Martinez and his wife are active philanthropists in the Dominican.

On the field, we’re talking about a guy who’s probably 5’9" 150 lbs, wasnt even the top prospect in his own family, who willed himself into one of the game’s all time greats. By contrast, Schilling would be the first to tell you he basically pissed away the first half of his career due to arrogance and lack of drive. He certainly turned it around, and deserves credit for his accomplishments, but this idea Curt relied on some special ‘guile’ that escaped Pedro is silly.

If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09

by Diamondhacks on Dec 29, 2009 3:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Martinez's

headhunter reputation was the result of a flaw in his mechanics in his early years.

An early departure? What are the chances of that? If this was a movie, there wouldn't be an early departure.

by soco on Dec 26, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't honestly know

if any on the list will get in, but I voted for Justin Upton. As much as I love Mark Reynolds, I don’t think there’s a shot in hell that he does.

What's your name? Sandwich. What's your first name? TUNA.

by emilylovesthedbacks on Dec 25, 2009 10:36 PM EST reply actions  

was surprised not to see Roy Oswalt up there

but then again, I’m not a stat junkie, so it’s just an observation from a guy, likewise for Chris Carpenter, I was expecting to see on the list.

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Dec 27, 2009 1:03 AM EST reply actions  

Oswalt is a good point

Perhaps his recent struggles with injuries and performance have hit him down a bit? And maybe it’s just me, but didn’t Carpenter take a while to get to where he is? A while, and a move to St. Louis and Dave Duncan?

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 27, 2009 4:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Oswalt was on the short list

Career ERA+ of 133, so he’s not far short of the Santana and Halliday levels. Carpenter is only at 116 though, and 117 wins at age 34 isn’t going to impress many voters either.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Dec 27, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Pretty good lists

Jeter has a better chance for first ballot induction than some of your twilight guys, but the only glaring error I see is Webb. Several prime timers, like Berkman, Guerrero and Howard, are better positioned for induction, and there may be others like Oswalt, etc.

I havent really thought about the young guys.

If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09

by Diamondhacks on Dec 27, 2009 3:11 PM EST reply actions  

Not bad options

All were on my short list. There’s a bit of a glut of 1B/DH types with stellar numbers active at the moment, Berkman, Howard, Giambi, Howard, etc. and I made a conscious effort to broaden the list out to other positions.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Dec 27, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds reasonable

except your biggest glut is already the starter position, not 1B/DH types. So to elevate another pitcher into your prime time pantheon, reason would dictate that the candidate stand out from other elite candidates. And in terms of widely accepted HOF qualifications, Brandon doesnt.

He’s thiry years old and has 87 wins. Starters like Oswalt (137-70) and Verlander (65-43) are better positioned for Cooperstown and Webb’s HOF chances are barely distinguishable from those of Josh Beckett or Dan Haren, and probably just ahead of Lackey and Buehrle.

And the position players I mentioned all have a better chance than Webb. Vladdy, who is not a 1B/DH type, could probably get in if he retired today. If you dont believe it, take a look at his bref comps, then look at Webby’s.

Also, Felix Hernandez belongs on your young gun list.

 

If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09

by Diamondhacks on Dec 28, 2009 2:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Well...

Agree about ‘King’ Felix that guy has some filthy stuff.

But bear in mind it’s not JUST about numbers when getting into the hall. Webb has been in the top 2 of Cy Young voting three times in the last four years (and obviously spent last year injured), and it’s reasonable to suggest that IF he makes a full recovery he could well end up in that top 2/3 several more times.

The Hall recognises the best players of their respective eras and in the late 00’s (with the potential to go beyond) Webb has been dominant even with a relatively poor club behind him. If he comes back to full health it’s resonable to think he’ll have 6 or 7 15+ win seasons which would take him to closer to 200 wins. That being said the fact he’s had only 1 playoff campaign could also hurt him.

IMO, the days of 300 winners look to be numbered, heck even the days of 250 winners look to be dying out. How many times do pitchers reach 20 wins in a season now?

They’d need to have 10x such seasons or 15, 17-18 win seasons to make that level now. When you take into account the role that bullpens have and the desire of clubs to protect costly starting pitchers I think we’ll be seeing 200 wins as the new 300 within the next 20 years.

Under that criteria and with another Cy Young and another couple of top 2 finishes I see no reason why Webb couldn’t make it in eventually.

Time for another drink then?

http://www.wimbles.wordpress.com

by Wimb on Dec 28, 2009 6:06 AM EST up reply actions  

I think

That as GMs and managers and even players are starting to see the waning meaning of wins as a statistic, that the desire to accumulate them is similarly decreasing. No longer can you score a fat paycheck based on a fifteen-win season, because if your metrics and performance suck and you scored big-time in the luck department, everyone knows. Maybe it’s just me, but I imagine that the HOF will respond accordingly as the eras shift.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 28, 2009 6:36 AM EST up reply actions  

But bear in mind it’s not JUST about numbers when getting into the hall

I understand, and agree with pretty much everythiing you and IHSB said. I’m not saying BW can never get into the HOF – just that he doesnt belong on a respectable Top 10 list, because there are other players who have established stronger candidacies.

Brandon’s path to Cooperstown likely doesnt require 300 wins, and he may not need 250, because as Jim and you alluded to, his ERA+ and CYA profile are both strong. But the 87 wins and .588 win % at age 31 put enormous pressure to bear on the second half of his HOF career.

In my mind, he’ll need to win two more CY awards, which I think will be very, very tough for a variety of reasons, and he’ll probably need to win at least 200 games. The only modern starter to get in with less than 200 was Koufax, whose dominance hit baseball in the face in a way our beloved Brandon cant approach. Saberhagen won two CYAs, finished third another time and won 167 games – and barely registered with the voters. Ron Guidry won a CYA in an historic 25-3 season, finished in the top 7 six times, won 170 games (+79 over .500) and barely registered with voters.

I understand what you guys are saying, about evolving voter criteria. Believe me, I do. And I’d love to see BW finish his career the way you imagined and get inducted. It could even happen. I just think it’ll be very, very tough.

cheers

If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09

by Diamondhacks on Dec 28, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I completely agree

I think Webb is a long-shot, because, for all of his dominance in the past, it didn’t happen on many great teams, and his injury has left us wondering if it’ll continue for another decade. I was mostly remarking on how much you’re going to see dramatically different statistical merits earning HOF inductions.

"I've had Bailey's out of a shoe, though."

by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 28, 2009 6:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's a challenge

Find a player who had three consecutive top-two finishes in Cy Young voting before his 30th birthday, and who isn’t in Cooperstown. Add an ERA among the best for currently active starters [his ERA+ is better than Guidry and far ahead of Saberhagen at the same point in their careers], and I stand by my original assessment.

There is certainly a risk he’ll get Blylevened in the voting. But as I said, if his shoulder holds up, and he returns to that 2006-2008 form, then another Cy Young is far from out of the question, and would all but lock him into a spot.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Dec 28, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

since you basically dressed up Brandons previously acknowledged assets (ie CYA profile, ERA+) as something dramatically new and compelling, while blithely ignoring the entire counter argument, I’ve decided to ignore your monologue as well.

It’s not easy. I mean, it takes considerable comedic restraint to step away from statements like:

There is certainly a risk he’ll get Blylevened in the voting.

….but I’m outta here. As you say, not worth it :-)

If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09

by Diamondhacks on Dec 28, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

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