Total BS Alert: "The New York Yankees have the best fans of any team in the world, not just MLB"

I stumbled across this article this morning, and I can't think of the last time a piece.... pissed-me off quite as badly. Claims Mike Lupica of the New York Daily News - with absolutely no bias at all, I'm certain.

"There aren't fans better than this anywhere in the world. This isn't about whether or not you love the Yankees. This is about Yankee fans. There are other baseball fans in other cities, of course, Mets fans in this one. There are fans who come out strong for teams who haven't won the way the Yankees won, who don't make the playoffs just about every year the way the Yankees have since Joe Torre first came to town 13 years ago and the winning came back to the Yankees and the Bronx. But no fans have ever supported a baseball team, the most famous team in this world, the way Yankee fans support theirs."

What, you mean as a bunch of front-running fashionistas? As recently as 1995, the Yankees were pulling in only 23,360 per game. But as soon as they started winning, the Yankee fans started crawling out from under rocks. Those aren't "fans" - those are the baseball equivalent of Jonas Brothers groupies. I have no respect at all for that kind of fandom, or those who wear a Yankees cap (at some idiotic angle) as a gangsta fashion symbol.

And what's this "most famous team in the world" crap? I think a lot of football outfits would take umbrage at that, most notably some in England, Italy and Spain. The uber-parochial nature of certain Americans never fails to astonish me. Yankees fans are a bunch of pussies beside, hell, even Glasgow Celtic fans are better, and my feelings towards them are basically genetic. I'll say no more, since my "boss" here, Blez from Athletics Nation, is a Tim rather than a Billy Boy. [Explanation for the confused...]

Anyway, interesting question. Who do you think are the best fans in baseball, and what makes them so?

3 months ago Jim McLennan 33 comments 0 recs |

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Man

Somebody needs to have Kanye give a rebuttal to Lupica’s ~~article~~ propaganda piece.

Seriously, that’s an awful article. “There are a lot of Yankees fans, and maybe they didn’t bother supporting the team when they weren’t winning, but they support them now, and they do support them even if they don’t come to the games, but they support the team and they think the Yankees are going to win the World Series, and wooooooooooh, we’re the best fans in the whole entire world!” Why not the universe, Mike? Are you conceding that the Aldebaran Blii’ktaagas have a better fanbase than the Yankees?

I have way more respect for fans of teams that aren’t winning- that’s more of a sign of dedication. So, by that tally, I guess the Pirates have the best fans in baseball? =)

"Spam headline: 'YOU ARE CHOSEN!' Oh, Morpheus, you're getting pretty lazy."
"Or they are informing you you are Jewish in a very lame conversion campaign."
"In either case, sending me spam is not the way to invite me to Zion."

by kishi on Oct 19, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah,

I have a ton of respect for the dedicated Pirates, Royals, etc. fans out there. There’s a great example even in the Phoenix market; watching fans bail on the Diamondbacks after two so-so seasons puts things in perspective. Hell, as strange and depressing as the 2009 season was for the D-backs, we still limped to 70 wins, which the Pirates haven’t done in six years. So why do Yankees fans suddenly get respect for watching their payroll-bloated team actually accomplish something for once? It is not difficult to go watch a borderline all-star team go out and win 100 games. The fans who drag themselves down to a September game where it’s 40 degrees and your team is 40 games under .500 — that’s real dedication.

by Azreous on Oct 19, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's absolutely zero question

That the best fans in the world belong to a football/futbol/soccer team in Europe or Mexico. Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. What an idiot… I hate the sport of fo/fu/so (this abbreviation amuses me, for some reason) and yet even I can recognize this.

By the by, +1 for the Aldebaran Blii’ktaagas comment, kishi. Made me chuckle.

Most Depressing Math Question Ever courtesy of Probability class: "Clark and Anthony are two old friends. Let A be the event that Clark will attend Anthony's funeral. Let B be the event that Anthony will attend Clark's funeral. Are A and B independent? Why or why not?"

by IHateSouthBend on Oct 19, 2009 1:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Mike Lupica

needs to get out of the city and experience some real fans elsewhere in the country, let alone the world.

by Azreous on Oct 19, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

ahhh but he has every thing he needs right there

in NYC, being bused, trucked, shipped in from all over the planet, it’s a modern day Rome and guess where the gladiator games are held?

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Oct 19, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It never will...

The uber-parochial nature of certain Americans never fails to astonish me.

Jim, I’m 38 years old. Born and raised in the U.S. The uber-parochial nature of many, many Americans still never fails to astonish me. The most recent example I remember was also baseball-related. It had to do with baseball being removed from the Olympics and rugby being put in. Some idiot blogger on the Arizona Daily Star’s site went on and on about how unfair this was because rugby was the most popular sport in…gasp…New Zealand! Because no one else, anywhere, watches or plays rugby.

Look, I love baseball. I’ve never watched a rugby match in my life. Yet, I am fully aware that a far larger segment of the world’s population plays rugby than baseball. Baseball, at its highest levels, is basically confined to two continents: North America (including Central America) and Asia. By Olympic charter, that makes it unworthy of an Olympic berth. A sport has to be played at a fairly high level by a certain percentage of the population on all populated continents to merit inclusion. Rugby is far closer to that than baseball is. Of course, Americans don’t excel at it, so it must not be relevant. Ugh.

by azshadowwalker on Oct 19, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Based primarily on brand recognition

I’d guess the most famous teams in the world are:

Brazilian Natl Team
US Olympic Team
NY Yankees

In my view, Pele’s yellow, USA’s red, white and blue, and the iconic “NY” symbol from Babe Ruth to 9/11 are the three most recognizable sports logos or “colors” – over the past half century or so. If Steinbrenner hadnt transformed the modern Yankees in the global information age, they might not be top three. Perhaps the red of Man U or Soviet Olympic teams.

As it happens, the enduring NY logo both transcends and glorifies the baseball team. “NY” is increasingly identified with the most visible city in the world, especially after 9/11, and the term “Yankee”, which predates modern baseball, is nevertheless synonymous with “American” in much of the world. Those are powerful symbols and international associations.

What rang false was Lupica’s heroic theme of “they keep on coming”, as if this is surprising for a competitive juggernaut in the nation’s largest metropolis, or that Yankee fans overcome peculiar hardship to attend games. “They used to turn left out of the station, now they turn right”. My! What focus and dedication. “Some loyal fans actually drive to games and endure [gasp] parking garages!” Sardining into the 4 or driving through the Bronx is no bed of roses, but it’s (ie crime) not as bad as it used to be, and this provincial gushing made me laugh.

If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09

by Diamondhacks on Oct 19, 2009 5:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd go with

Seleção Brasileira
Real Madrid
NY (the cap, not the team)
Bulls (Jordan)
Barcelona FC
Milan
US Olympic Team

Did you hear Eric Byrnes is writing a book?
It's going to be a pop-up book.

by Muu on Oct 19, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jordan's Bulls

were famous all over the world. Especially in China.

The Bulls in the 90s were much bigger than the Lakers today.

I have a shrine dedicated to Mark Reynolds, wherein I keep his bobblehead, signed baseball, and jersey T-shirt.

by DbacksSkins on Oct 19, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I tend not to think of the US Olympic squad as a “team” on a number of levels. Firstly, it’s an amalgam across many different sports, with a large variety of interest and coverage which results. Secondly, it’s mostly individuals competing on their own – “teamwork” between the. individual sports is limited to the opening and closing ceremonies. Thirdly, it’s extremely cyclical – at the time of the Olympics, awareness is very high, but I doubt many people could name more than a handful of US gold-medal winners from the last games.

I’m not sure how it works in Brazil – Muu would be a better person to tell you – but in Britain, national teams are generally secondary to club allegiances. The latter are more present on an everyday basis, though again, it’s cyclical – during the World Cup or Euro Championships, your country takes precedence.

Good points by you and Muu about the NYY cap, which may well be the most recognizable sports logo in the world, largely because of its simplicity [did you know it was originally designed as a medal to honor the first New York cop shot in the line of duty?] It’s instantly clear what it is, and even those who wouldn’t be able to name a single player on the roster could still tell you what it is. However, there’s a lot more to “famous” than a logo…

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Oct 20, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

However, there’s a lot more to "famous" than a logo…

Is there? The largest fan bases (followings) are distinct from the most widely known (famous) teams. Futbol has the largest followings, but there are far more people in the world who dont follow futbol than who do. “Fame” isn’t measured by how many fans can recite roster vitals, or live attendance (altho the Yankeees annually draw more fans (7M) than any soccer team in the world). That, and TV ratings, is a following.

Fame is broader and more superficial, engaging humanity beyond sports fans and certainly diehards. Like most of humanity, I’m not a soccer fan. I’m vaguely aware that Beckham and Ronaldo played for Real Madrid, but dont have the foggiest what Real’s uni’s or home stadium look like. I have no idea what clubs Maradona played for, and could care less. I associate him with Argentinian blue for the same reason Ronaldo is Brazilian yellow – because I’m not a soccer fan.

But when I flip channels during the World Cup, like a billion other vaguely interested observers, I sit up when yellow comes on, and say something dumb and patronizing like, “Son, these are the Brazilians. They are the most exciting team in the world.” When an American Idiot like me instantly recognizes your soccer team, whether it’s 1974 or 2006, that’s fame.

The club teams have great histories and followings, but none of them enjoy the kind of global recognition that transcends soccer fandom. My point about the Yankees is that their global recognition transcends baseball passion (which is, admittedly, small globally). They are tied to NYC and more importantly, to America and American history, unlike any other sports team, and I suspect that resonates more broadly (and superficially), the farther one gets from the U.S.

For example, domestic baseball allegiances are naturally and geographically fractured (although NYY’s base is twice as large as any other.) In Mexico, the Dodgers are big, along with the Yankees and a handful of teams. Farther south, the Yankees are #1. In Asia, the Yankees are #1 by far. In Europe and Africa, nobody gives a crap about baseball, but I daresay reasonably educated people there and elsewhere have heard of the New York Yankees, Babe Ruth, and perhaps, Yankee Stadium. It’s 20th century American history, like Henry Ford or CocaCola, that emanated out into the world and informs global cultural literacy. The same way I’m literate enough to discern that yellow on a soccer pitch means, “Brazil”.

If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09

by Diamondhacks on Oct 20, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting...

A few quick points:

1) Actually, the Diamondbacks probably draw more fans than any soccer team in the world. This is simply because there are 162 games in the baseball season, far more than any soccer team ever plays. On a per-game basis, Man Utd kicks the Yankees ass.

2) I think your focus on international games is probably largely because the only time football crosses the average American radar is every four years during the World Cup. Club soccer – and foreign club soccer in particular – hardly registers anything beyond a flat-line.

3) There’s no doubt the Yankees have the best-known baseball team. But I suspect you over-estimate how little that matters to the majority of the world. There are many who will associate the logo as much, if not more, with Jay-Z as Jeter.

4) The fame of a team is not the fame of their logo. That may be the case in baseball, but logos have always been a relatively minor part of football. As you saw with the Brazilian national squad, it’s jersey colors that define a team. However, it’s harder for a single football team to lay claim to a color: even within a single country, is red Manchester United, Liverpool or Arsenal? But I guarantee you, worldwide, more people know David Beckham than A-Rod.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Oct 20, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

1) As stated, attendance speaks more to “following” than “fame”, but since you muddled that side issue with “per game” numbers, logic compels a response. First, a number of American football squads (college and pro) outdraw Man Utd ‘per game’ each season, but nobody’s conflating that Penn State or Tennessee are more “famous” globally on that basis. Second, Yankee “per game” draw is impressive precisely because of what you aim to disparage – the long schedule. Would Manchester sustain anything like 75K a night playing 81 home matches, year after year? As it is, they play 19 or so, virtually all on weekends (like American football), but barely draw 35K on the road in the English Premier League. Again, attendance is really tangential to the discussion, and I dont mean to disparage Manchester. They’re an intl juggernaut of the first order. But to snarkily imply they outdraw the Yankees in live attendance is not helpful.

I think the world’s ~~your~~ focus on international games is probably largely because the only time football crosses most human’s ~~American~~ radar is every four years during the World Cup.

Fixed. I’ll cop to being somewhat Ameri-centric, if you’ll acknowledge the Eurocentrism that spawned:

And what’s this “most famous team in the world” crap? I think a lot of football outfits would take umbrage at that, most notably some in England, Italy and Spain. The uber-parochial nature of certain Americans never fails to astonish me.

The Yankees may or may not be the most famous team in the world, but I hardly find it such an insulting reach. They’re the second most valuable sports franchise in the world (per Forbes), and to say “alot” of clubs would take umbrage, or should, is probably more of a reach than Lupica’s claim. (His claims about “best fans” are sillier, more subjective and not worth arguing about.)

3) The logo transcends the team and baseball, for sure. It’s become sort of an urban American symbol, especially outside the US. Beyond the logo, I suspect what you’re underestimating is the extent to which the franchise has also endured as an American symbol – not just in intl pockets where baseball is popular, but quite aside from those pockets, starting in earnest during WWII. Soccer is certainly the most popular global sport, but American culture is the most understood (some might say encompassing or suffocating) on the planet. People all over the world know that Americans love baseball, that a Yankee is an American, and vice versa – whether they follow baseball or not.

worldwide, more people know David Beckham than A-Rod.

No doubt, but you’re changing the subject. We’re talking teams, not individuals. Yao Ming might be the most recognized athlete on the planet, but his popularity doesnt elevate the Houston Rockets to the status of clubs worthy of this conversation. Neither does Beckham, or Arod for that matter. The greatest teams, the strongest brands transcend or absorb individual celebrity.

I’ll close with this aside, from one of my favorite writers, E.B. White:

To foreigners, a Yankee is an American.
To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner.
To Northerners, a Yankee is an Easterner.
To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander.
To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter.
And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast.

If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09

by Diamondhacks on Oct 21, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve always been a fan of pie for breakfast, but I learned that from my chemistry teacher in high school, who was from Tucson.

Oddly, that’s the one thing I learned in that class that’s stuck with me the most.

by kishi on Oct 21, 2009 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One of the things

destroying our social fabric is that not enough young women know how to make pie. I’d like basic proficiency to be a prerequisite of marriage. You dont have to be faithful or bear children, or be obedient or any of that crap.

Just make a halfway decent crust. The ripple effect on the U.S. family would be incalculable.

If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09

by Diamondhacks on Oct 21, 2009 4:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, to be honest

I do most of the baking in my marriage.

by kishi on Oct 21, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I read

this as “most of the balking,” and didn’t know what to think.

I am Shiva the Destroyer, your harbinger of doom this evening.

by soco on Oct 21, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's true

mrskishi has a much better pick off move to first.

by kishi on Oct 21, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pie

and cake are both excellent choices for breakfast.

I am Shiva the Destroyer, your harbinger of doom this evening.

by soco on Oct 21, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough

Not much worthy of argument there. I think what got (and continues to get) my goat was the entirely unsupported assertion that the Yankees were the most famous team in the world, without any acknowledgment of the world outside the United States. Couple of minor points on attendance (which you brought in):
1) A good chunk of the reason why Man U draw less on the road is that very few other stadia in England hold 75,000.
2) You can probably almost double the number of home games they play, by the time you inclue FA Cup, League Cup and Champions League games – which tend to be largely midweek, and draw equally well.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Oct 21, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In terms of the fame

of regularly scheduled teams, I’ve changed my mind. Forbes says Manchester is the most valuable franchise, by a pretty healthy margin, which seems more closely tied to brand strength than operating revenue (Man U & NYY are quite comparable there).

I’d be fascinated to learn the comparative brand strengths of these franchises in markets like S Korea and Japan, where soccer and baseball are both very (equally?) popular. But the Forbes (and some TV) data convinced me the NYY arguments were historical, at best.

On a personal note, I grew up a Yankee fan in Connecticut, and had four things hanging from my bedroom walls. Mickey Mantle and Raquel Welch posters and a Charlie Brown pennant. The fourth? I’d forgotten about it until this morning, but it was actually a Manchester United pennant my mom had brought over in the 70’s from a business trip. Didnt follow the team then either, but funny in light of the discussion.

Bringing “cyclical” teams into the mix, I’ll stick with the Brazilians for world’s “most famous” team, however. I suspect their history, jerseys, single named players and free-wheeling style sustain an unrivaled, global impression.

If the FO is the focus of anything, something is seriously wrong with the picture ! - unnamedDBacksfan 2/20/09

by Diamondhacks on Oct 22, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I did put the US Olympic Team on the list for a simple reason:

like it happens every 4 years with the “Seleção Brasileira” during the World Cup, when almost every single human being watching a tv can recognize the yellow jersey, during the olympic games almost the same happens with the US team, at least on the cerimonials hehe…

And yes Jim. As crazy as it sounds, our “Seleção” is mostly secundary on the period between the World Cups… Maybe a game versus Argentina/Italy can steal some attention on the non-worldCup vacuum, but it’s not even close in comparison with a World Cup game, where some call us “A Pátria de Chuteiras”.

Did you hear Eric Byrnes is writing a book?
It's going to be a pop-up book.

by Muu on Oct 20, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

baseball might only be in 2 continents but its watched by two hundred million people a year. Also Jim this has nothing to do with certain americans. its just the way they are in big markets like new york.

by txzona on Oct 19, 2009 5:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

200 million?

Are you talking live? Television? I’m not sure. Because MLB attendance this year was 73.4m. Regardless, it’s small beer beside football. 284 million watched the 2006 World Cup final worldwide. In comparison, no World Series game has reached even 30 million in the US since 2001 – there will be some more overseas, but if the worldwide total of late has been even 50 million, I’d be surprised.

"Win, or die" -- Marquise de Merteuil

by Jim McLennan on Oct 19, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyA2ejSuHc4

by TAP on Oct 19, 2009 5:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's beautiful

how 911 really brought those people together. God Bless them.

Also amusing how eighty guy fans, who pretty much look like carbon copies of every frat house kegger movie, are calling the one girl in the stands gay.

NY Yankees: isn’t that ironic?

by Counsellmember on Oct 19, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Best fanbase in the Majors:

St. Louis Cardinals.

I have a shrine dedicated to Mark Reynolds, wherein I keep his bobblehead, signed baseball, and jersey T-shirt.

by DbacksSkins on Oct 19, 2009 10:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. " ~Greg, age 8

by njjohn on Oct 20, 2009 9:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

You'd

first have to establish what is a “good” fan. Is it one that goes to games? Is it one that follows religiously? Should they follow the overall game? Is it one that yells a lot and makes noise? Is it one that supports the team financially? Is it a combination? Then, how would we apply that to a larger group? Is it one that combines some of these traits? Most of them? All of them? I don’t think we could come up with a satisfactory answer, and any attempt would be merely to be a homer.

I’m not sure it’s unreasonable for Lupica to make this claim in the New York Daily News. It might be a big paper in New York, and comparatively to the nation, but it is still a New York paper only. The only reason anyone is mad about this is because we now have ease of access through the Internet. In fact, I saw a similar reaction to this over at a White Sox site earlier today. So I understand that people are mad, and why they’re mad, but the story doesn’t mean much.

For the sake of levity, though, and from the fans that I’ve had the opportunity to chat with, I would have to go with the White Sox or the Dodgers. I know, I know, there are quite a few bad Dodgers fans, especially in the Los Angeles dominated Southwest, but most I’ve talked to are actually quite knowledgeable. Unfortunately. On the other hand, I’ve heard almost universally that St. Louis fans are first class, but I haven’t met very many.

I am Shiva the Destroyer, your harbinger of doom this evening.

by soco on Oct 20, 2009 12:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Cubs fan's

seem to be pretty die hard. I mean cmon…..most of them are in their 90s and are waiting to pass away until they see the cubs win another series. Talk about die hards.

I laugh until my head comes off.

by edbigghead on Oct 20, 2009 12:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs