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Around SBN: 2012 Africa Cup Of Nations Final

Casting the runes: analyzing the Josh Byrnes chat

By chance, I happened to be on lunch at 2pm when this was scheduled to start, so thought I might as well pop in and see what it was like: I hadn't been to one of these before. Things got off to a shaky start, the first two questions hanging in the air unanswered - at first, I suspected our GM was simply ignoring them, and was waiting for a question he liked better [perhaps involving whether he preferred puppies or kittens], but it seems there were technical issues responsible. At 2:18pm we got a test message from Josh Byrnes, and were finally under way.

The first answered question came from none other than Levski, who asked if Arizona, given the loss of Dunn's draft picks (among potentially others), would go for more expensive players or those with signability questions in the supplemental and second rounds. Josh's response was that we might be 'a bit more aggressive' - though the team will always look at value, cost and a player's draft slot. Next up was TAP, with a semi-follow up, asking about our overall objectives in the 2009 draft. It seems, going by the GM's response, that we are looking to 2011 and beyond, rather than at players who can make an immediate impact: "The extra picks associated with the 2009 draft should improve our depth and quality if we were to project 18 months into the future."

We then returned to one of the opening salvoes, unanswered at the time, but one which had been the subject of much speculation since the last online chat:  the chances of us getting another starter. It's worth printing Byrnes' response in full. "We are still pursuing a variety of options in the marketplace. Hopefully, there will be good values either in trade or free agency. We have considered a few starting pitchers, but we will not necessarily acquire one. With Webb, Haren, Davis, Scherzer, Petit, Buckner, Gutierrez, Blackley, Valdez, etc., our starting candidates are pretty strong." That should dampen the fires a little bit: we may get a pitcher, or we may not. 

Ah, time for the not unexpected poison-pill question: "Can you explain the key reasons why the D'Backs were not able to re-sign Randy Johnson?" Not one I fancy answering myself, and I was half expecting some more "technical difficulties" to  crop up at this point ["Sorry, folks: the chat-room has been eaten by a narwhal. See you next month."] While Byrnes seemed to be going out of the way to praise the Big Unit in some depth, here's the short answer: "We could not make the finances work." Which certainly feels both more plausible and straight-forward than Moorad's response to basically the same question the previous month, "We offered to pay Randy what we felt was fair."

Not quite sure I got the next question, a somewhat rambling and uninteresting one about how our off-season will compare to our division rivals, so let's move on to locking Webb, Upton, Drew and Jackson long-term. Josh's response was fairly boilerplate: "Retaining core players is very important to us... We will continue to assess our best risk/reward scenarios as we develop contractual strategy." He did say the team bought out 15 years of free-agency over the past few years, though I'm not sure where that number comes from. Here are the ones that come to mind in this area. Including team options, we extended Haren for three years, Byrnes for three, Snyder for two, and the first year of Young's free agency. Jon Rauch had a year's option exercised, while Webb had two free-agent years bought out in the January 2006 extension, and the Johnson deal included an extension for a year. That's thirteen in total, so I must be missing something somewhere.

None of these chats go by without a question to make you go "WTF?" - such as whether we will go after Prince Fielder - and this time was no exception. HavasuFan asked, "Will there be any emphasis on patience behind the plate this season? With the exception of Connor [sic] Jackson, it seems many of our hitters have never met a first pitch they didn't like. That results in players breaking strike out records." WTF? Actually, the Diamondback who had most at-bats end on the first pitch last year was...Conor Jackson. And it isn't even close: he had 80, no-one else more than 55. You'll be startled (or perhaps not) to learn that none of Mark Reynolds' K's came on the first pitch: indeed, he saw more per PA than any other qualifying AZ player. [Quick question. Only one Diamondback got a hit on a 3-0 count all year. Who was it? Answer at the end] I understand the issue - too many K's - but, really...

Another iceberg hove into view next: "What is the status on Eric Byrnes?" After some diplomatic praise for Eric's off-season work ethic, we get to the meat of Josh's response: "Last year did not go according to plan for Eric, and Conor Jackson showed that he could play LF well. Our roster dynamics have changed to some degree. Competition for playing time is more prominent on our roster than it was at the same time last year." This is true: back then, I was able to write "Basically, outside of second-base, our lineup is all but settled until the end of 2010." Now: not so much, and that may be a good thing, if the competitors use it as a motivational spur to boost their performances. Nothing would be more delightful than Melvin having an embarrassment of good-hitting players to choose from.

It looks like the manager's line-up dice will continue to operate this season, as Byrnes addressed the lack of a prototypical clean-up hitter thus: "Bob Melvin has done a great job at finding the right combinations, and he has been very creative at times. Until a few of our younger players make the 3/4 slots more obvious, we will continue to emphasize a 1-8 lineup mindset." If we can get everyone's OBP up above .330, that'll be helpful, though we have some power. As noted before, with a little luck, we could make a run at the NL record of ten players reaching double-digits in homers, set by the Reds in 1999 and 2000.

A question about our operations in Asia [stronger in Japan than Korea, according to Byrnes] brought us to the last one, concerning the Brandon Webb extension. Josh stressed that we have Webb for two more years, so there's time, but I think the key phrase was "We will certainly take great care to make the best decision for him and our team construction heading into the next decade." [Emphasis added] I take that to mean, we won't be putting all the franchise's financial eggs into a Webb-shaped basket anytime soon, and given it would probably take $20m per year or more to extend our ace at this point, the tea-leaves continue to look distinctly cloudy. Wonder if Webb will get the 31 wins he needs to tie Randy Johnson as franchise leader before he leaves - or, more likely, gets traded?

The chat was a good bit shorter than usual, thanks to the issues which plagued the first twenty minutes: while there were no bombshells, there was still a good amount to chew over, albeit with some reading between the lines required. One sensed Byrnes was somewhat cagey, but given the minefield potentially presented by a number of those questions, I can't say I blame him for that. He didn't dodge the difficult issues anywhere near as much as he might have, and I hope that we'll see him doing more of these during the season. Here's the full transcript.

[The answer to the question, who was the only Diamondbacks to get a hit on a 3-0 pitch last season, is Justin Upton. It came at Chase on May 15th against the Rockies, off Brian Fuentes. In the eighth inning of a game were we leading 6-3. J-Up tripled to deep-center, scoring both Drew and Hudson, and we won 8-5. Actually, I was reminded of the exact circumstances on that one, and you probably recall it too The Rockies had come in high and tight to Upton, on more than one previous pitch, and clearly riled our young outfielder. The next pitch was swatted to the 413-ft mark in right-center. Video - and Daron's fine call - can be found here.]

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while there were no bombshells, there was still a good amount to chew over, albeit with some reading between the lines required. One sensed Byrnes was somewhat cagey, but given the minefield potentially presented by a number of those questions, I can’t say I blame him for that.

I thought he was being appropriately delicate when discussing particular players, but he also seemed like he didn’t really want to tip his hand in the midst of the offseason.

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by DbacksSkins on Jan 8, 2009 10:33 PM EST reply actions  

Missing FA buyout years

Jim, the extension you were missing is the Chad Tracy extension, signed in ’06 to run through ’09 w/ a ’10 option.

by SheriffWannaBe on Jan 9, 2009 1:20 AM EST reply actions  

Ah, had missed that one

Though isn’t only 2010 a free-agent year there, since Tracy debuted in 2004?

by Jim McLennan on Jan 9, 2009 1:32 AM EST up reply actions  

That's true

It is only one free agent year…

Meaning we’re still missing a year somewhere in there…

How about the Doug Davis trade-’n-extend. I think we bought out at least 1 year of FA in that deal…

by SheriffWannaBe on Jan 9, 2009 1:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, I think that's it.

Looking quickly at Cot’s, it looks as though we bought out 1 year of FA in the Tracy deal and 2 years in the Davis deal.

Meaning JB wasn’t counting the Rauch option in his calculations, thus Byrnes’ 3 + Haren’s 3 + Snyder’s 2 + Webby’s 2 + Davis’ 2 + Tracy’s 1 + Young’s 1 + Randy’s 1 = 15 years.

by SheriffWannaBe on Jan 9, 2009 1:44 AM EST up reply actions  

That'll do

15 seemed high, but the math does seem to add up. I’m soothed. :-) Thx!

by Jim McLennan on Jan 9, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

It would be pretty startling...

… to have Mark (or anybody else, for that matter) “K” on the first pitch.

“You’ll be startled (or perhaps not) to learn that none of Mark Reynolds’ K’s came on the first pitch.”

<cough, cough>

Bad Ortiz, No Donut.

by B. O. N. D. on Jan 9, 2009 2:06 AM EST reply actions  

Exactly

Welcome to the same feeling I went through reading havasufam’s original question. It seemed to make sense the first time through, but then, when I was putting the article together, only then did I experience the WTF? moment!

by Jim McLennan on Jan 9, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Wait a minute.

One hit on a 3-0 count all year? How many opportunities were there??

by Azreous on Jan 9, 2009 3:41 AM EST reply actions  

Pretty good indictment

of giving hitters the “green light” on a 3-0 count. Just ask the A’s.

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by DbacksSkins on Jan 9, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Not necessarily

The one hit in 9 ABs represents a small portion of all 3-0 swings – just those nine swings that ended the AB on that very pitch. Many 3-0 swings also result in foul balls and swinging strikes that extend the AB and arent captured in that particular line item.

As Jim’s link indicates, 325 AB’s (116 official ABs) went through (past) a 3-0 count – and the Dbacks hit .328/.757/.603 in those situations. That doesnt prove that “swinging away” is a good thing either. It’s an extremely complex set of variables. But swinging or not, 3-0 is a undoubtedly a great place to be :-)

Thank you for letting me talk

by Diamondhacks on Jan 9, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

correction
  • 325 AB’s should read 325 PAs****

Thank you for letting me talk

by Diamondhacks on Jan 9, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Swinging and making contact, by fouling the ball, might be okay.

So long as you don’t foul out. But swinging and getting a swinging strike on 3-0 is almost assuredly a waste. Those “3-0 swings [that] also result in foul balls and swinging strikes” are NOT beneficial for “extending the AB”… more beneficial would almost ALWAYS be taking on 3-0, unless you truly get a meatball right down the gutter, because neither fouling nor getting a swinging strike gets you on base; taking on 3-0 might. But either way, batting .111 on a 3-0 count is NOT a good average, and that stands on its own, regardless of how the Dbacks hit after working a 3-0 count. That high OPS isn’t at all indicative, though — shockingly enough, the Dbacks don’t hit particularly well on an 0-2 count, either — .142/.158/227. That’s just the nature of those counts.

Though you might still get a hit or a walk after swinging and making the count 3-1, you’re essentially doing the pitcher’s job for him by giving him a strike when he’s already shown either a reluctance or an inability to throw a strike on his own.

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by DbacksSkins on Jan 9, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions  

There's four or five

mistakes here, but let’s start with the easy one:

batting .111 on a 3-0 count is NOT a good average, and that stands on its own, regardless of how the Dbacks hit after working a 3-0 count.

It doesnt stand on its own, in any empirical predictive sense. It’s nine at bats, indicative of next to nothing. Take a look at the team’s 3-0 splits in other years and get back with me :-)

Thank you for letting me talk

by Diamondhacks on Jan 9, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Ask, and ye shall receive.

In 2007, with essentially the same team as in 2008, the Dbacks batted .188 (3-16) and in 2006, they batted .000 (0-9). That’s a .117 clip over three seasons. Other teams with presumably more experienced hitters are more selective with their swings, evidenced by the fact that the NL as a whole batted .355 (142-399) over the same three years. But the Dbacks are NOT a patient team, and in the rare occasion that they’re able to run the count to 3-0, there are VERY, VERY FEW instances in which they should be allowed to swing. Better to take the walk and get on.

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by DbacksSkins on Jan 9, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Other teams with presumably more experienced hitters are more selective with their swings, evidenced by the fact that the NL as a whole batted .355 (142-399) over the same three years.

Either that or random variance. In the case of your cherrypicked Dback sample (the one starting just after 2005 when AZ hit .385 with a 1.154 SLG% in 3-0 counts), you’re still only talking about 34 at bats over three full seasons – and probably across fifteen or twenty players. It’s a ridiculously small sample, in the sense four safeties out of thirty-four balls in play isnt a sustainable ratio, even if Tim Lincecum faced them on every 3-0 count. I’m sure that most of that will be explained by random variation and their numbers will gravitate towards well established norms for 3-0 accts (which are about .350 BA , ..700 SLG). Some teams hit .100, some teams hit .500 in a given year – it’s just not real meaningful in these quantities.


But the Dbacks are NOT a patient team

They were fourth in the league in walks, so I’d hardly call them collectively impatient. What they are is collectively lousy, and that may lead to a better argument.

Are they less selective than more experienced teams on 3-0 counts? Possibly, but citing small sample BA’s as evidence of less selectivity is results oriented, especially when three quarters of NL teams drew fewer walks than the supposedly undisciplined team.

in the rare occasion that they’re able to run the count to 3-0, there are VERY, VERY FEW instances in which they should be allowed to swing. Better to take the walk and get on.

That’s what they already do. They rank ninth in reaching 3-0 counts ( a tick below average but hardly rare), yet were fourth in the NL in walks. That suggests to me a good deal of selectivity, or patience, late in the counts.

Better to take the walk and get on

When you take a 3-0 pitch, he’s only walking you a third of the time. Two thirds of those 3-0 pitches (not incl IBBs) are recorded strikes, making the count 3-1 while eliminating a third of your remaining strikes. It gets more complicated from there, but it’s not as if there’s no cost to taking strikes down the middle of the plate, and I think the statistically significant samples of what MLB hitters hit on 3-0 and 3-1 counts reinforces that .

Thank you for letting me talk

by Diamondhacks on Jan 10, 2009 5:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Put Another Way

I dont disagree with the conclusion that most 3-0 counts should be taken, and in fact that’s what happens. I’m more questioning the underlying reasoning that the Dbacks specifically ought not to swing on 3-0, “because they’re not selective” or “because they hit .117” in that situation.

The second assertion has an interesting and potentially useful corollary though: Should the Dbacks not swing on 3-0 because they’re not – in a more general sense – particularly good hitters (as apart from “selective). There’s certainly a relationship between how "good” a hitter generally is and how well he can specifically exploit 3-0 pitches. For example, pitchers who hit almost never swing the bat on 3-0. It’s a bad tradeoff. Very little good can come of it. Conversely, the Albert Pujols and Lance Berkmans of the world (who are both selective and damaging hitters) should probably get the green light often.

Where do Diamondback hitters fit into that? I dont know. Most hitters, in most 3-0 situations, it makes sense to take. But within that general truth lie myriad exceptions, based on a mind-numbing array of variables – matchups, game situation, the hitter’s pitch recognition and propensity to do damage.

Another variable not often considered with young sluggers like Young, Reynolds and Upton is that they’re learning, getting better via experience. We all love to see them take a walk, the benefit of that is obvious, but there may also be a benefit in getting some 3-0 cracks under their belt, in hopes that they will someday “learn” how to turn those 3-0 pitches around. IOW, if we just categorically decide they must take 3-0 ALL the time, their latent ability to swat the meatball you mentioned may never develop, or even atrophy.

Anyway, good subject. I dont pretend to have the last word on it. You made me think.

Thank you for letting me talk

by Diamondhacks on Jan 10, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Ask and ye shall receive

AZ Batting Splits by Pitch Count

325 PA’s went through a 3-0 count all season. 150 ended on the next pitch, the vast majority (141) with ball four. That leaves nine ‘official’ at-bats: Chris Snyder made the most outs on 3-0 counts, with three. Chris Young had two, while Dunn, Byrnes and Burke one apiece. Upton’s hit was the ninth AB.

I was curious as to the circumstances where Burke got given the green light on 3-0, especially when I saw the score was tied. It came in the fourth of this game, facing Barry Zito. There were men on first and second, and two out, but it was Montero on-deck, rather than the pitcher. Not the call I’d have made, though it was still in May, so perhaps the scope of Burke’s suck hadn’t quite sunk in.

by Jim McLennan on Jan 9, 2009 10:21 AM EST reply actions  

Better than most

I thought the chat was better than most, though I agree that some of the questions he chose to answer left me scratching my head. I had just about gave up when the site finally started working. Sure wish he would have been more direct in the question on the plans for the starting rotation.

by Bawalla on Jan 9, 2009 11:45 AM EST reply actions  

Welcome

to the ’Pit!!

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by DbacksSkins on Jan 9, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

Saw it while browsing today….thought I would follow it for awhile.

by Bawalla on Jan 9, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

New Info on Montero to Sox

http://bottomlinesox.com/2009/01/whats-a-catcher-worth.html

Basically says the Sox are refocusing their catching options on Montero instead of Salty. Outlines the prospects that could be in play, but likely no Buchholz, which would have been too big a steal to contemplate. Puts Bowden and Bard out as probable trade candidates.

Peter Gammons is a part of the talk, as well, which may add some weight to it’svalidity. Of course, talks with Veritek would have to fall through for any of this to happen I think.

by Counsellmember on Jan 9, 2009 4:48 PM EST reply actions  

Interestingly

Was just in the process of writing the renewed chatter up. I’ll include this info, so thanks for the link!

by Jim McLennan on Jan 9, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

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