Arizona still trying to catch a pitcher. ANY pitcher
Well, we may have lost half of our World Series punch, but is there a possibility we could get back the other one? Tyler Bassett of 620 KTAR reports, "After missing the entire 2008 season, Curt Schilling is attempting to come back from surgery and has said in the past that he may be able to pitch this season. The Diamondbacks are interested in the right-hander and may end up signing the one time Diamondback." This is something we floated more than two months ago, and Schilling did say on KTAR that "
The traditional problem remains - the team's refusal to offer contractsd containing incentive-based clauses, something almost certainly necessary to compete for Schilling's services. However, last Friday, Nick Piecoro wrote that this might not be such a dogmatic part of philosophy as was previously the case, with "some indications the team might be willing to relax its policy." In particular, while "It’s doubtful that they would do deals that include bonuses for things like innings pitched or games finished or home runs, but they might do a deal that would pay a player as long as he’s on the active roster.while not being able to do contracts for innings pitched, etc."
Actually, part of the problem is they can't offer contracts based on home-runs or similar metrics - it's forbidden. Major league rule 3(b)(5) says: "No Major League Uniform Player's Contract or Minor League Uniform Player Contract shall be approved if it contains a bonus for playing, pitching or batting skill or if it provides for the payment of a bonus contingent on the standing of the signing Club at the end of the championship season." The reason for this will be familiar if you've seen Eight Men Out, where the White Sox owner screwed Eddie Cicotte out of a bonus, by stopping him from reaching the 30-win target. So, you can have an incentive based on the number of innings pitched or games finished, but not ERA or Saves.
Piecoro points out that Jeff DaVanon's contract, signed in February 2006, had incentive-based aspects. It's probably worth filling in the details: he had a conditional player option for 2007, whose value was determined by the number of days he spent on the major league roster in 2006. It was worth $700K for 90 active days; $900K for 120 days; $1.1m for 150 days; and $1.25m if he reached 180 active days. His 2006 season ended when he hit the 15-day DL on August 12: to me, that would seem to put him in the 900K range, but it looks like the fine print excluded only DL time "for an injury related to a pre-existing right shoulder injury." As the August injury was to his ankle, it seems DaVanon got the full $1.25m in 2007.
In the comments, 'hacks makes a couple of interesting and, I suspect, accurate observations - I'll reverse the order of them. Firstly, if this is the case, why wasn't such a contract offered to RJ, "an injury risk / high potential poster boy for this very approach." I think his other point answers this: I doubt it's a coincidence that this apparent shift in policy happens only a few days after the announcement that Jeff Moorad will be leaving the organization. I definitely think a degree of flexibility is a good thing: sure, make it a general rule not to offer such contracts, but there are times when the benefit will outweigh the cost uncertainty which is an inevitable part of them.
Bassett and Piecoro each also provide their own lists of likely other candidates, after whom the Diamondbacks might go. The former is a great deal less ambitious: "Paul Byrd, Jason Jennings, Braden Looper, and Randy Wolf," while Piecoro still mentions Ben Sheets, Pedro Martinex and Jason Jennings. One name we can cross off is Jon Garland who apparently rejected Arizona's offer, though there's no details of what that was or whether Garland has signed anywhere else. The story echoes Bassett's mention of Braden Looper, though as he earned $5.5m last year in St. Louis, I'm forced to wonder if we'd have enough in the budget to make a run at him, even if Looper is now 34.
Kris Benson is another name mentioned in connection with the Diamondbacks - and the source in this case is... Kris Benson. In an interview with MASN, "mentioned the Diamondbacks and Rangers among a handful of clubs that could decide to sign him." Benson is perhaps better known for his wife, Anna who once famously went on the Howard Stern show, when he played for the Mets, and said she'd have sex with every member of the organization (including the grounds crew), if she ever learned her husband had been unfaithful. Given Anna was named baseball's hottest wife in 2004, one would trust that circumstance should be unlikely.
Couple of other things to mention, before I head off to write an article on narwhals. Our colleagues at Beyond the Box Score have just launched a community effort to project team performance in 2009, on a player-by-player level. They're looking for one person per team to head up the projection effort. Eventually they plan to have a community projection of expected standings, the best lineup, the best rotation, league MVPs, Cy Youngs, and the most productive players at each position. Having just finished the defensive stats epic, I don't really feel up to taking part, but if you are interested, check out this post and leave your team, website, and email address in the comments.
If you've got a spare moment or two, SnakePit Jr. [above] now has a blog of his own - the professional baseball thing never quite worked out, and he's now (more than a decade after the above picture was taken, I should add) intent on becoming a writer for The Colbert Show. So please swing and feel free to leave comments: it'd be nice if someone other than his mother did so. :-)
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Incentive Restrictions
“The reason for this will be familiar if you’ve seen Eight Men Out, where the White Sox owner screwed Eddie Cicotte out of a bonus, by stopping him from reaching the 30-win target. So, you can have an incentive based on the number of innings pitched or games finished, but not ERA or Saves.”
I’ve never understood why you couldn’t have incentives for HR’s, RBI’s, Wins, and the like but this reasoning doesn’t make sense to me. You can just as easily stop someone from reaching an innings pitched or plate appearance mark. And there’s really not any difference, the only way to keep someone from hitting HR’s is to not let them hit at all, so how would that be different from keeping them from a plate appearance incentive?
by Brendan Scolari on Jan 15, 2009 9:53 PM EST reply actions
I suspect
that incentives in those days were much less common than they are now, and I’m also guessing that were a party to challenge the legality of innings-based incentives, it would be discovered that they’re technically not supposed to be allowed, either. I’m sure they were specifically created in order to bypass that rule. Philosophically, if you think of baseball players as, strictly speaking, employees, then it DOES make some sense. You’re not paying them extra for doing their job to the best of their ability. You’re paying them extra for doing MORE of their job — almost like overtime.
The coming of free agency changed the dynamic as well; the owners had a lot more power before those days than the players did. See the history of the MLBPA. It’s a much different labor market now — whereas back then it might be seen as overly generous and unnecessary to pay someone extra for being a particularly good employee, today, incentives are common in jobs throughout the economy, from bank tellers to CEOs.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Jan 15, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Ok thanks
I still don’t understand though, why would innings based incentives likely be illegal if challenged in court? What would be the problem?
by Brendan Scolari on Jan 15, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
Incentives for PA/ IP are seen as proxies for health. They are allowed as a way for the team to only pay a healthy player.
Incentives for wins, or HRs/ RBIs are not allowed because they would pay a player for his performance. The union doesn’t want to see players lose $ because they have an off year. It would also hurt the bargaining position of other free agents.
"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.
Moorad's parting shot?
Ortiz at $33 million, Byrnes for $30 million, no incentives flexibility for HOF’er Randy Johnson.
He’s all yours, San Diego.
I wonder if he needs help
moving out of the DBacks office?
If you make every game a life-and-death thing, you're going to have problems. You'll be dead a lot.
by unnamedDBacksfan on Jan 16, 2009 2:43 AM EST up reply actions
Good call.
Shoot, I’ll help ya out, Mr. Moorad. My sister drives a Highlander, I’ll borrow it.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
I'll fly in to move his ass out if I need to
Let's go Colts! Thanks Tony Dungy for the many years of success!
I'll buy the ticket!
We all need to move fast on this in case he changes his mind.
If you make every game a life-and-death thing, you're going to have problems. You'll be dead a lot.
by unnamedDBacksfan on Jan 17, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Knock on wood! Immediately!!
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
On the subject of Pedro
Ken Rosenthal says:
Free-agent right-hander Pedro Martinez might prefer to sign with a team east of the Mississippi River, but the Diamondbacks could present an interesting possibility. Diamondbacks GM Josh Byrnes had a good relationship with Martinez when the two were with the Red Sox, and Byrnes’ special assistant and director of Latin American operations, Junior Noboa, is a Dominican countryman of Martinez’s and highly regarded in the D.R. …
Interesting....
although, unfortunately, this is entirely unfounded speculation, just like the Ben Sheets furor.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
Fun fact: Keith Law's top 10 free agents list
currently includes(#1 is Manny Ramirez) four unsigned 2008 Dbacks: Adam Dunn is #2, Orlando Hudson is #4, Juan Cruz is #6 and Brandon Lyon is #7.
Think we should sign any of these fellows? They seem like fine ballplayers….
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
Is there a signing deadline that if these players go unsigned past it we receive no compensation?
Besides the draft obviously?
Yes, I'm a Diamondback and Suns fan. So you may be wondering, "Why does this fool like the Broncos so much?"
A: The Cardinals are too hard of a pill to swallow. Oh yeah and that Elway dude....
That won't happen.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
Not until like July I think.
They’ll be signed by then.
by Brendan Scolari on Jan 17, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Still looking for a DBs volunteer to head up community projections...
To limit the work, I’d suggest…
- Enter CHONEs initially
- Start threads to discuss which players should be bumped up or down, in both quality (OBP/SLG, FIP) and quantity (PA, IP)
- Update when needed until Opening Day.
If you can help out via FanPosts here, let me know: skyking162@gmail.com
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Yeah, I'll take it.
Having skimmed over this story originally, I thought Jim WAS taking it.
I’m not traditionally a huge stats or predictions person, but I’ll do my best.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
Thanks!
You just have to figure out how to get everyone else into it. It’s a COMMUNITY thing, ideally, not a stat-geeky thing.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Will be happy to help out
Having just completed the defensive stats series, I just felt in need of a break from staring at numbers in any great volume for a bit! Let us know if you need anything specific. On the plus side, my piece on narwhals is coming along very nicely. ;-)
by Jim McLennan on Jan 17, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
Have you yet asked the question:
“Is our narwhals learning?”
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
Oh, lovely.
I see XeiFrank is doing the Dodgers predictions. I can’t wait to find out that according to his simulator, the Dodgers have a 67.22532526326432723465324% chance of winning the division again.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
My sims
indicate the most likely NL West winner for 2009 is ham.
Please, say that you care, or say that you think that I'm... beautiful.
Meaning YOU can't partake.
HAH!!
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
C'mon, Timm.
I’m just trying to milk the kosher jokes as long as I can.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski

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