Brandon Lyon not quite king of the jungle material

by azwebber17 on Aug 24, 2008 8:09 PM EDT Comment 13 comments

Once again Brandon Lyon has a very dissapointing outing leaving me very angry. The D-backs were down 3-2 with the heart of the order due up next inning, Co-Jack, Big Adam Dunn, and TC (bye the way i have no idea why melvin put tony clark 5th in the line up) but any ways we have a very good chance of coming back. But of course Brandon Lyon can never make things easy. He gives up 3 doubles and these werent just texas leaguers these were shots i mean he got rocked and he has his last 6 or 7 outings. We are in a tight pennant race and we cant have Lyon trying to figure things out in the closer role with the game on the line. Can we please stop playing this guy. I cant wait till september call ups so we can get a few more arms in the bullpen so we can stay away from the dreadful Brandon Lyon.

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Certainly

Going by his performances since the All-Star break, I do not want to see him out there in a save situation. It’s fortunate we haven’t had all that many this month, despite our winning record – I want to say only three, and he had to be bailed out in one of those.

Not sure September call-ups are going to be much help: the only arm we’ll see that I might have any confidence in is Max Scherzer, and the word is that he’d be going into the rotation if anywhere, since his arm seems to have a problem bouncing back on short rest.

I think we may end up seeing Qualls and Pena flip-flopped with Rauch and Lyon, if this keeps up, or at least Pena going into the closer’s role. He has been great since he corrected a mechanical flaw, and is looking a lot more confident too. I dread to think what Lyon’s mental state must be, after his last few outings.

by Jim McLennan on Aug 24, 2008 8:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

ya

thats the main guy im lookin forward to getting back is scherzer he may help the bullpen a bit and they might bring up owings we could use him in the bullpen as well and his bat even tho he hasnt been the powerful guy we were spoiled with last season he is sure a hell of alot better then burke. What i dont understand is why dont they bring in cruz more often he is the most consistent in the bullpen and has been great with the exception of like one outing maybe he pitched well again today in his one inning of work they need to use him a lot more i think, and i agree they should move pena into the closer role and keep rauch as set up even tho he has struggled a tad as of late but he will get it back together im sure.

by azwebber17 on Aug 24, 2008 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This

was Pena not that long ago, and Qualls too. Rauch had not so good game on Friday.

I guess what I’m saying is that everyone has bad streaks, so you can’t just stop playing a guy completely. I do agree, though, that September call-ups can help give the bullpen some rest at times.

What's for dinner, mum? Heinz Baked Beans.

by soco on Aug 24, 2008 9:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

You are right in saying that they have had their ups and downs but like Azwebber said we are in the heat of a pennant race and we cannot let him work out his flaws in a one run game, its just too dangerous. There are like 33 games left and you HAVE to go with what is hot. Pena is hot and he has been mowing the opposition down. My vote is for Pena as you right now he is the most confident.

by Quin on Aug 24, 2008 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The point

is that you can’t find out if a guy is better if he’s riding the pine, but the problem with this is you can run yourself into bad situations. Should Lyons be put on the backburner a bit? Definitely, but we just can’t stop playing him completely.

What's for dinner, mum? Heinz Baked Beans.

by soco on Aug 24, 2008 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't Jim point out

that Lyon’s opposing BABIP is nearly an insane .500 or something like that? Lyon’s NOT this bad. He’ll progress back to the mean eventually.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 24, 2008 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, he is not THAT bad

But he is still currently pretty bad. Until he regresses back to the mean, I would rather not see him pitch in any high-leverage situations. He needs to earn his way back, in the way Pena has done.

by Jim McLennan on Aug 25, 2008 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is a LONG streak though

I agree with what Josh said at the Q&A about realistic expectations for relievers not named Rivera, etc.

However, since June 17th, Lyon has been in the dumper. It’s over 2 months now.

6/17-8/1

17 G, 15.2 IP 7.47 ERA, 0-3 record, 10 saves, but 3 blown. 20 hits, including 4 HR allowed.

So that was enough of a bad streak that coverd 6 weeks of the season. But instead of turning it around, we’ve gotten this:

Aug 2- Aug 24

6 G, 5.1 IP, 16.88 ERA, 16 hits , 3 walks, and a homer.

This is beyond a bad streak. This is complete and utter meltdown. Maybe he will turn it around, although I doubt he will ever be anywhere near as effective as he was before Melvin mysteriously decided it would be a good idea to pitch him 3 days in a row on June 18-19-20, and throw 67 pitches those 3 days, including 27 on the third day. It’s not a coincidence folks. Lyon’s collapse is DIRECTLY attributable to that weekend, and being used in a way that Melvin should have already know he could not and should not do. After all, it’s not like he hadn’t been down that road before with Lyon.

by shoewizard on Aug 25, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

send him down?

maybe a trip down to tucson would help him he could work through his troubles and he doesnt have to blow games for us in this crucial time

by azwebber17 on Aug 25, 2008 2:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We can't just send him down

This is his 7th year in the majors, so he’d have to clear waivers in order to be assigned to Tucson, and there’s no chance in hell of that happening. Basically, Lyon would need to be DL’d, and then go down there on a rehab stint – not that this is any kind of major issue, since there’s always some issue for which a trip to the disabled list is possible. :-) But would we want to be without him for at least 15 days?

by Jim McLennan on Aug 25, 2008 2:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

to be honest

i could care less if lyon were gone for 15 days i havent seen a good outing from him since way before the all star break every time he comes in i expect at least 1 run

by azwebber17 on Aug 25, 2008 2:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yikes

This whole thing with Lyon is really scary. I really sincerely do not want to see him come in in the next save situation. We all know he can pitch better than this. I just don’t think a pennant race is the time to let him try to work it out. Pena seems to have the hot hand lately. I think I would rather see him out there.

Of course, the whole bullpen seems like a giant question mark to me. I don’t think I can quite call it a negative. Some games they look great. And then some games they completely fall apart. I now always get nervous when the starter goes out. So, maybe I should start calling the bullpen a negative. Sigh. I swear, it would seem to be our luck if we put Pena in that closers role and he stinks it up.

I don’t understand why these guys can look so good sometimes and so shaky other times.

by SongBird on Aug 25, 2008 4:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He still has the job

Link

I think I have to show confidence in him," Melvin said. "It would be easy with our depth to just say, ’Let’s back both these guys off and put Tony Pena in the ninth and Chad Qualls in the eighth,’ but if I had done that earlier with those guys, too, who knows where we’d be right now?

True, who knows where we’d be: maybe our bullpen wouldn’t have the worst record in the league, at 10-21, having become our major Achilles’ heel, instead of the strength it was last season. Again, why is the same not true for hitters: when a hitter struggles, Melvin has no hesitation in putting him lower down the line-up, or benching him for a bit.

Gilbert also says Lyon hasn’t blown a save since July 10, but he’s obviously missed this game on July 20, where he came in with a three-run lead and lost the game. Lyon’s season ERA is now 4.96; do we really want a pitcher like that defending a one-run lead?

by Jim McLennan on Aug 26, 2008 11:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs