Better Red than dead: Micah to Cincinnati?

Not that I think

this isn’t true, but right it just sounds like a mess. Hopefully we’ll know more soon.

Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!

by soco on Aug 12, 2008 8:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'll miss Micah =[

Wikipedia is accurate. (citation needed)

by Muu on Aug 12, 2008 8:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Now, is ESPN going to release poisonous rattlers into the Cincinnati area, with tags reading “Lost: One Diamondback. Welcome to Cincinnati, Micah Owings!”?

Personally, I’m waiting until we have confirmation of this.

Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?

by kishi on Aug 12, 2008 8:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

+ 1 hundred meeleeon

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 12, 2008 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Horrible trade

This is turning into a compelte farce. Way to empty the farm guys for a 7 week rental.
We really do not have patience to develop young talent, do we?

the front office can kiss my ass.

Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong.

by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 12, 2008 8:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

"empty the farm"?

If our farm system has all of THREE good players, and one of them was a single A pitcher coming back from Tommy John surgery, then our minor league system is MUCH worse than I thought….

On the other hand, perhaps you’re being hyperbolic?

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um…. Chris Snyder, Miguel Montero, Chad Tracy, Conor Jackson, Stephen Drew, Mark Reynolds, Chris Young, Justin Upton, Brandon Webb, Max Scherzer, Tony Peña, Doug Slaten, Alex Romero, Jamie D’Antona…... I’m sure I’m forgetting some, too. CY came in a trade, but he was still a minor leaguer at the time.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 3:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry unnamedDBacksfan,

I had to hide your comment, but yes, I am serious. Why? With the youngest starting position players in the majors, your claim that the org “has no patience to develop young talent” just doesn’t make much sense. I realize you’re upset about the trade, but do you really still make the same claim?

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Confused!

Josh Byrnes really thinks that Micah is done? I mean regardless (i thought) he was a pitcher who at the least had enough stuff to be a regular 4/5 guy in the majors. I am confused…..

http://azsportshub.com

by bobman024 on Aug 12, 2008 8:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's not necessarily one or the other

it could be simply that Micah was what it would take to get Dunn here and he made a choice.

Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!

by soco on Aug 12, 2008 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought he was

generally considered to be an “acceptable” trade chip when we were talking about Mark Teixeira.

"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson

by Scrbl on Aug 12, 2008 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 3:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Owings to Reds

Also according to Hal McCoy of the Dayton Daily News

From a sound source: One of the two yet to be identified players coming to the Reds in the Adam Dunn deal is Arizona pitcher Micah Owings.
The third-round pick of the Diamondbacks in 2008 was 8-8 with a 4.30 ERA in 27 starts last season, his rookie year, but has fallen on rough times this year — 6-9 in 18 starts with a 5.93 ERA.
Shades of Homer Bailey.

by cesarhernandez on Aug 12, 2008 8:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

F.

by pepperdinedevil on Aug 12, 2008 8:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Damn

I yelled NOOOOOOOO when I heard this on the radio on the way home from work. Do not like it at all.

by TwinnerA on Aug 12, 2008 9:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's just Micah Owings

Reds fan here. The general response at their site is kind of a ‘meh,’ about Owings. Not loving it, but not hating it. How screwed up is his shoulder anyway? And should the Reds give up on him as a pitcher and make him a 1B or OF?

by cesarhernandez on Aug 12, 2008 9:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

At least TRY hi as a pitcher

Bob Melvin did everything he could to destroy the poor kid’s psyche. But he’s tough. He may make a decent starter yet…until Dusty Baker gets to him.

Poor Micah.

"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson

by Scrbl on Aug 12, 2008 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What did Melvin do to destroy his psyche?

Owings had a seven start span in which he allowed 29 earned runs in 35.1 IP before Melvin first skipped his rotation spot and used him out of the bullpen.

What was Melvin supposed to do, keep running him out there when he couldn’t get anybody out?

by dahlian on Aug 12, 2008 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't that

what he did?

It seemed like Owings was the posterboy for BoMel’s ””leave’em in too long” strategy. This may be colored by my strong dislike of the Most Cordial Manager in Baseball, but I can remember at least three games where Owings had absolutely nothing and looked about two inches from complete panic, yet BoMel left him into get hammered some more.

"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson

by Scrbl on Aug 12, 2008 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The guy went seven starts

averaging only five runs a start and you think Melvin should have had a quicker hook? The bullpen was dying then and the last thing this team needed was a started that couldn’t make it through five.

It’s not his psyche, the guy just sucked for the last two months. I don’t think turning him into a four inning starter would have helped him any.

by dahlian on Aug 12, 2008 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I do think he needed a quicker hook

And I think he should have been moved to the pen or sent down sooner. By the time we did send him down, he looked absolutely lost. On-the-verge-of-breaking-into-tears-on-the-mound lost. That’s not the kind of mindset I want to see in a pitcher.

If Owings can recover some of his confidence, I think he will be a solid pitcher. But I don’t think we did him any favors in his last few weeks in the majors.

"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson

by Scrbl on Aug 12, 2008 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um.....

are you just being argumentative? Or are you being serious?

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 4:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm being serious

in that I believe that all of Micah’s problems are of his own doing. I don’t believe that “Bob Melvin did everything he could to destroy the poor kid’s psyche.”

Melvin gave the kid every opportunity in the world to succeed over the last two months and of late, Owings simply hasn’t been able to hack it. Micah is 25 years old and has thrown over 250 innings in the major league, if leaving him in the ball game for five innings so that he can work through is own problems is enough to “destroy his psyche”, then frankly his psyche wasn’t much to begin with.

Of course, I’m on the side of the fence that believes Micah’s psyche (and Melvin’s handling of it) had next to nothing to do with his struggles of late. Instead, I’m of the opinion that “failure to throw pitches for strikes” is the most likely culprit.

by dahlian on Aug 13, 2008 4:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I concur

you’re pretty fragile if a few innings is enough to destroy your pysche. I know we like to dump on the “Melvin is a moron” bandwagon but it’s a stretch to connect Micah’s problems to Melvin, especially since most of us hoped but weren’t sure that he’d cut at the major league level.

I think the problem here is that we all fell in love with his bat last season more than anything else.

Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!

by soco on Aug 13, 2008 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly.

If Edgar Gonzalez went 6-9 with a 5.93 ERA, people would be calling for his head on a platter. EdGon is 5 months younger than Micah….

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn’t calling for his head on a platter. I still like EdGon. I think he might be very serviceable down the road.

"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck

by njjohn on Aug 13, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't talking about you, specifically....

....I was talking more about foulpole types.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't mean to make excuses

for Owings’ poor performance. I just think that things fell apart when he lost confidence in his pitches.

"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson

by Scrbl on Aug 13, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course,

I don’t have the stats to back this up (I’m not even sure where to get them). But it seemed like Owings’ control got worse as his situation worsened. The more unhappy he was, the more trouble he had throwing strikes. Add that to his poor composure on the mound and it looks like his problems are as much mental as anything.

"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson

by Scrbl on Aug 13, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, I don't think that Melvin did anything to ruin him either.

It just seemed like you were initially saying that he SHOULDN’T have been allowed to pitch that many innings, and then you came out in favor of the opposite. (I’m of the former opinion, myself.)

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Please excuse the hyperbole

I knew that it would cause such a kefuffle, I would have said it differently.

Beyond his numbers, which as you pointed out weren’t as bad as they could have been, Micah Owings looked absolutely defeated. In his last few appearances, he literally looked like he was on the verge of tears. I have never seen a professional athlete look so miserable while he was competing.

"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson

by Scrbl on Aug 13, 2008 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One day

I will learn how to NOT hit the post button before I’m finished.

Once Micah started panicking as things went south, I think BoMel should have pulled him from the rotation. Keeping him there may have been “supportive” but it didn’t help Owings and it didn’t help the team.

"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson

by Scrbl on Aug 13, 2008 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you have to give him

at least a year or two to try and refine his off speed stuff.

But I agree, Micah is a prime example of the sort of player that a fan base can extremely overrate. A guy with decent results, but extremely average stuff that will have to make a quantum leap in both his control and his off speed stuff to become anything more than back of the rotation filler. He also has that dynamic bat that makes everyone take notice and want so badly for him to succeed.

I like the guy and I would have liked nothing more than to see him succeed as a Diamondback, but I just can’t get too choked over him leaving.

by dahlian on Aug 12, 2008 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was going to make the same point....

Micah’s the kinda player that you can get emotionally attached to as a fan—but you have to see through that. As a RHP, without good control or a third pitch, and with a fastball topping out at… what? 91? Micah may not ever be anything more than an average MLB starter with the novelty of having decent power numbers with the bat. Also, the novelty of plunking every other batter in the lineup.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 3:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Forget third pitch

he barely has a second pitch.

by dahlian on Aug 13, 2008 3:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't worry about the shoulder BEFORE he gets to Cincy.

He doesn’t have any history of shoulder issues. I’d worry about it AFTER he gets there, with Dusty as manager. :-(

Do us a favor…. PLEASE don’t let Dusty rip our Micah’s arm out of its socket?

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 4:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why did he need to be named later?

I didn’t think he could be a PTBNL since he’s played against both leagues this year.

"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson

by Scrbl on Aug 12, 2008 9:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That's not how it works.

A PTBNL can’t be in the same league as the player being traded for at the time of the trade.

Also, Owings would have to go through waivers before he could be traded which is why he’s a PTBNL.

by dahlian on Aug 12, 2008 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK

That makes a lot more sense than the tangled mess I had in my head. Thanks.

"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson

by Scrbl on Aug 12, 2008 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ugh

it’s still an okay trade, but I really disapprove of Byrnes’ growing penchant for selling low on players (Quentin, Owings). Owings to me was a guy that you absolutely should not have sold because he value had hit rock bottom. I just don’t get it.

"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck

by njjohn on Aug 12, 2008 10:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That is

an interesting trend. Both seemed redeemable when we traded them (but I guess the other teams wouldn’t have taken them if they didn’t).

"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson

by Scrbl on Aug 12, 2008 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't

really think that Owings’ value was at “rock bottom”. Not even close. He’s a young, cheap pitcher who’s well known for his bat. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the reason he became a PTBNL was because another team tried to claim him off waivers.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 4:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rock bottom indeed… there was no point in the last three years where his value was lower. In fact, three months ago, he would have fetched a handsome reward. In fact, I was advocating that we move him then if we could get a good return.

"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck

by njjohn on Aug 13, 2008 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They were already TRYING to trade him then.

But three months ago, he was a member of our starting rotation and we still felt like he had a future with us. With Petit, Scherzer, Parker, and possibly Vasquez, we’ve got what are now looking like better options.

Anyway, generally, when you’re in the middle of a pennant race, you don’t trade your players who are doing well. You trade your players who are underperforming and can’t currently help you win.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Close

Anyway, generally, when you’re in the middle of a pennant race, you don’t trade your players who are doing well. You trade your players who are underperforming and can’t currently help you win.

That’s close. You generally don’t trade players who are doing well on the Major League level. You do trade players who are doing well in the minors (see Bonafacio, Emilio). The point is that we got minor league value for a guy who just a few months ago commanded major league value.

"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck

by njjohn on Aug 13, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Except

that just a few months ago, Micah looked like he might be able to help our team—even though there were FO concerns already about a guy with control problems, a 90 MPH fastball, and a mediocre changeup. (Hence, bringing him up in trade talks.) The FO was proved to probably be correct, and Micah’s status and value to THIS team changed. His value as a PH was always marginal anyway, even when he WAS hitting.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also,

you really still can’t blame J.Byrnes for the C.Quentin trade. Blame J.Moorad for the E.Byrnes deal.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 4:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to rip open the can of worms too much

But I don’t see how the Brynes deal forced the player to be traded for an A ball player, when the player had minor league options and a genuine excuse to be at AAA for a while (injuries) and also might have been needed overr the season (sophmore slumps from Young/Upton) or injuries.

Yeah the Byrnes contract was retarded but that’s not a reason to excuse Byrnes for selling low, the trade in general could perhaps be blamed on the FO decision to keep Byrnes but the trade itself is all on JB…

So...time for another drink then?

by Wimb on Aug 13, 2008 5:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Man

I suck at speeeeeling :(

So...time for another drink then?

by Wimb on Aug 13, 2008 5:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I completely agree.

"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck

by njjohn on Aug 13, 2008 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

With the Byrnes deal,

Q would have just languished in AAA for another 3 years, where he had nothing left to prove. Trading him to another organization where his future wasn’t blocked was the best thing possible for him.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

With all due respect...

Screw him. The question is, what was the best thing possible for the team? I’m pretty sure tossing a 40-HR hitter away for a no-name A-ball player isn’t it. While the Byrnes trade may have meant he did not have an obvious spot at that point, we would then have had some depth in case of injuries and/or suckage – and we’ve had both from our entire outfield this year.

True, you can’t blame JB for Eric’s extension, but we can blame him for removing all of the depth that we had in the outfield, by basically dumping Hairston and Quentin, and trading away CarGon too. At least in that case, it was a worthwhile trade – but it left us very, very exposed fo any one of the following events, never mind all four:
a) Somebody gets injured
b) Byrnes fails to live up his contract
c) Young’s OBP sits around .300
d) The 20-year old RF struggles against major-league pitching

by Jim McLennan on Aug 13, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't worry.

I’m sure JByrnes will have Carlos Quentin nightmares the rest of his life.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Could be worse

You could have to face Russ Ortiz nightmares ;)

So...time for another drink then?

by Wimb on Aug 13, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wtf

you gotta be freakin’ kidding me.

Formerly known as VIII

by Mr. Philosophical on Aug 12, 2008 10:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I guess the team hasn't learned.

Quentin, some of the guys for Haren.

The team that disappoints, the Arizona Diamondbacks.

by srdmad on Aug 12, 2008 11:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Are you kidding me?

I don’t care how well the guys we traded for Haren are doing.. Haren is amazing here in Arizona.

And i don’t really care to much for Owings… He was absolutely terrible after his good start, we NEEDED an offensive threat, and so I don’t mind this at all.

by ZonaBacks10 on Aug 12, 2008 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

Haren’s near Cy Young quality this season.

Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?

by kishi on Aug 13, 2008 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"near"?

After Webb’s win on Sunday, this is like the very first time Webb’s had a lower ERA than Haren since May or something.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 4:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BUT WINZ!?>

Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!

by soco on Aug 13, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, Webb has way more than Haren.

Haren obviously is teh suck. Why did we resign him?? It’s another Russ Ortiz!!!!

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Webb

would have to eat Adam Dunn before he’d even look sort of like Ortiz.

Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!

by soco on Aug 13, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Haren?

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You were comparing

Webb to Ortiz? So I was joking he would need to eat Dunn, a pretty hefty dude, to even begin looking like Ortiz? I’m sayin’ he’s fat.

Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!

by soco on Aug 13, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he was comparing Haren to Ortiz.

Which, maybe Haren could take the whole mountain man look and go a bit further to the crazed cannibal out in the woods thing, I guess…

Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?

by kishi on Aug 13, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah....

I was comparing Haren to Ortiz.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Irregardless!

I would assume the comparison holds up either way, but apparently that’s too difficult!

Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!

by soco on Aug 13, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But you were wrong!

This had to be pointed out!!

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But you can't

bridge the gap? Oh no, this is unpossible!

Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!

by soco on Aug 13, 2008 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course I could.

But the more important goal was to show that you misinterpreted my post, severely damaging your SnakePit street cred.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Easy Mac Triple Cheese

score!

Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!

by soco on Aug 13, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He has Snakepit street cred?

Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?

by kishi on Aug 13, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well,

some n00bs might not know him so well, and assume that since he’s a regular…

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, that needs to be included in the updates to Snakepit 101.

soco: Has no Snakepit street cred.
mrssoco: Do not provoke while in the presence of home electronics.

Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?

by kishi on Aug 13, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Heh....

are we going to start including individual posters?

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know

I’d bring it up in the war room, but neither I nor my snacks are invited!

Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?

by kishi on Aug 13, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, you and your snacks

might be invited. But we’ll have to discuss it in the war room first.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Granted, I wasn't around

when the famous Incident occurred, but I might actually upgrade mrssoco to “Do not provoke EVER”. If for no other reason than liability.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As if you

or ‘skins have any cred either?

Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!

by soco on Aug 13, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ooooh.....

defensive?

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Haren deal was different… we moved guys at the peak of their value in that deal…

"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck

by njjohn on Aug 13, 2008 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can almost never

know for sure when guys are “at the peak of their value”. (Except when it’s somebody like Valverde, where you KNEW someone would fall for the “most saves in the majors” hype.) CarGo was at the peak of his value, but I don’t know about the rest.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oy…. I’m not talking about projecting forward, I’m talking about looking at the past. You can most certainly tell when someone is at the peak of their value or the bottom of it.
Just look at numbers. Bonafacio’s numbers were the best of his career this year. Trade him? Good idea. Carlos Gonzalez had the best year of his career in 2007? Trade him? Good idea. Last year Owings had turned himself into a player whose value was gaining and by May this year his value had soared. Four months later his value was at the bottom—a MLB guy sent first to the bullpen, and then to the minors.

"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck

by njjohn on Aug 13, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

His value was at the bottom

if you’re only judging him on THIS season, but he’s still young. If we had kept him, his value was likely to erode even further, and the FO had concerns about this, or else they would have held onto him. The FO didn’t have confidence in Emilio Bonifacio’s value as a ML-ready hitter, so they traded him. CarGo was the bulk of the price to pay for getting at least 3 seasons from a young ace pitcher entering his prime, and OF spots are MUCH easier to fill than aces, which are EXTREMELY valuable. We also had our starting OF filled already, and there was no way to know that Byrnes or CY would regress THAT badly, or that Byrnes would rip his legs early in the season. I still think that for what we got and what we needed, and vice versa from the A’s, we may still end up being the victors in this deal—Haren’s not exactly Mark Mulder.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know Haren is awesome, it just that we never get a great player

by trading nothing. Owings had 3 complete games last year. How many does Haren this year. Zero. Career. 5. Why are they giving up on a guy in his 2nd year? I will take my chances with Owings, then some AA guy.

The team that disappoints, the Arizona Diamondbacks.

by srdmad on Aug 13, 2008 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So basically what you’re saying is “Why do other teams have to ask for potentially good players in exchange for other good players?”

Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?

by kishi on Aug 13, 2008 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Some kind of nasty habit these GMs seem to have these days.

by Azreous on Aug 13, 2008 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm saying why aren't we on the good end of the these deals.

The team that disappoints, the Arizona Diamondbacks.

by srdmad on Aug 13, 2008 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you seriously trying to say that you think we got the short end of the Haren deal?

Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?

by kishi on Aug 13, 2008 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bear in mind,

this is the guy that thinks we got the short end of the Jon Rauch deal.

by dahlian on Aug 13, 2008 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Consider

it borne.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 14, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"I'm saying why aren't we on the good end of the these deals."

The team that might win, the Arizona Diamondbacks.

by srdmad on Aug 14, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just wanted to verify

I think you’re incredibly wrong.

Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?

by kishi on Aug 14, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm just saying why aren't we on the good end of these deals.

The team that might win, the Arizona Diamondbacks.

by srdmad on Aug 15, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I'm just saying that I think we have been on the good end of some of these deals.

So, there we are.

Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?

by kishi on Aug 15, 2008 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm saying why haven't we been on the good end of a Quentin deal.

The best rotation lies in the desert.

by srdmad on Aug 17, 2008 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd much rather have wins than complete games..

Which Haren is winning that one. As well he’s a proven pitcher… Owings, not really.

But Owings was given PLENTY of times to reclaim his #5 spot… And every time, not only did he fail, but he failed miserably. Petit has filled in very nicely for him, and, honestly, i feel much more comfortable with Petit than Owings. Plus, when next year comes around, we’ll probably have a few minor league pitchers up in the big leagues… so i don’t mind this at all.

by ZonaBacks10 on Aug 13, 2008 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Crap. didn't mean for that to happen.

But i meant to say I’d rather have Haren, a proven big league pitcher, than have Owings, who isn’t.

Also. Owings was given numerous opportunities to reclaim his spot in the rotation, and in all times not only did he fail, he failed miserably. Petit has filled in nicely, and I honestly feel more comfortable with Petit in than Owings. We’ll have a few of our great minor league pitchers ready for next year, so it isn’t like he is irreplaceable. I don’t mind this one bit.

by ZonaBacks10 on Aug 13, 2008 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um... yeah most of those guys have fallen back to Earth.

Dana Eveland, for one, has become…. Dana Eveland. Carlos Gonzalez was the centerpiece of that deal for the A’s, and despite the glitter of the other players early on—it’ll still rest on CarGo as to whether or not that deal ends up being a good one for the A’s, or whether they just got warm bodies to fill positions on the field.

The fact that we had Haren under control for three years, even BEFORE he resigned with us, was a huge part of his value—that’s why neither CC Sabathia nor Johan Santana brought in the same haul as Danny Haren.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

I really need to rework the piece I did on our 2007/08 offseason trades… might do that this week

So...time for another drink then?

by Wimb on Aug 13, 2008 5:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's wait a year or two before trading guys.

The team that disappoints, the Arizona Diamondbacks.

by srdmad on Aug 12, 2008 11:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thought we'd get away cleaner

Starting to look like a lot for 7 weeks. Couldn’t agree more about trading when his value is utterly in the cellar. Same with Quentin. Trading Papa Grande this off season is how to do it. This just tastes bad to me.
(but it IS fun when Dunn comes to the plate, isnt it?)

by Counsellmember on Aug 13, 2008 12:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

but...

i like micah : (

are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

by utahdbacksfan on Aug 13, 2008 12:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I like Micah too,

but I’m trying to divorce my feelings from this trade… I was already starting to wonder about Micah’s longterm prospects as a starter, and pending the announcement of the other PTBNL, I’m still optimistic that we made out pretty well.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 3:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only thing

I don’t like about this is the poor guy is going to Dusty’s House of Pain. Other than that, like the Quentin trade, I’m happy to see guys get a chance to play somewhere.

Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!

by soco on Aug 13, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah.

I really hope they fire Dusty before he destroys Micah’s arm, but he certainly has a better chance to start in Cincy than here, with Scherzer waiting in the wings and Parker behind him, and Petit having seemingly surpassed Micah’s value in the org’s view.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say Smith has regressed more than Eveland

Smith – 137.2 IP, 65 BB, 90 K, 16 HR, 63 R, 101 ERA+, 4.75 FIP
Eveland – 125 IP, 64 BB, 84 K, 08 HR, 63 R, 88 ERA+, 4.33 FIP

by dahlian on Aug 13, 2008 3:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

But Eveland

got off to a hotter start, IIRC. Might be wrong about that, though.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 4:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm still trying

to take my feelings about Micah out of my reaction to this deal. It seems like a good thing for us, not a very good thing for the Reds, with how he’s been pitching lately…but I do like him, and hope for the best.

by emilylovesthedbacks on Aug 13, 2008 4:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agree with most sentiment

I like Micah but I can’t help but feel that it was more to do with his batting and the fact his name was like OwNings ;) then his pitching.

Still I wouldn’t have given up on him just yet but if Dunn leads us to the WS and we get 2 quality draft picks out of it then I won’t begrudge the deal. Sadly it seems much like in life in general you don’t get something good for nothing :(

So...time for another drink then?

by Wimb on Aug 13, 2008 6:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think the kicker is the draft picks.

The longview needs to be—is an injured A-ball pitcher, Micah Pwnings and someone else worth more to us than two early draft picks and two months of Adam Dunn helping us win the NL West? The way this org drafts, I like our shots.

The way Cincinnati drafts, eh…... they’re probably better off with proven commodities.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think the trade was awful… in fact, I still think it was a win for us. But I bet there was someone in the organization with comparable value to Micah who was on his way up instead of his way down. That would have been a better piece to move.

"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck

by njjohn on Aug 13, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, I also

have a lot more confidence in our FO than Cincy’s in terms of judging pitching prospects.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This FanPost over at RR claims that the other PTBNL is Wilkin Castillo, which would make sense.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 11:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And

FireJoeMorgan has a post ripping apart the latest anti-Dunn diatribe from the Cincy media.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 12:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ouch

Much deserved, but that stings…

by Jim McLennan on Aug 13, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It should be noted

that Daugherty would probably be a HUGE Eric Byrnes fan.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think my favorite line is “Every attempt to discredit Adam Dunn makes me love the guy even more. He sounds like everyone’s Dad.”

Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?

by kishi on Aug 13, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

dbacks.com

is reporting that owings has not been placed on waivers yet

Xx crosses fingers xX

i would much, much rather see EdGon go than owings- i think micah has more potential than gonzales does

are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

by utahdbacksfan on Aug 13, 2008 7:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Potential.

My point exactly.

The team that disappoints, the Arizona Diamondbacks.

by srdmad on Aug 13, 2008 8:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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