Dunn in the Sun: Reds slugger comes to Arizona
by Jim McLennan on Aug 11, 2008 4:40 PM EDT
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PrintThe Arizona Diamondbacks responded, in spades, to the Dodgers' acquisition of Manny Ramirez, picking up Cincinnati Reds slugger Adam Dunn this morning, in exchange for 2006 third-round draft pick Dallas Buck and two minor-league players to be named. Dunn is due to be paid about $4 million down the stretch, although reports have the Reds sending cash to Arizona, to help offset the cost.
Dunn has hit .233/.373/.528 with 32 homers and 74 RBI this season, figures that are right in line with his career line of .247/.380/.520; he has also hit exactly forty homers each of the past three season. He is also a strikeout machine - so he should fit in very well here. With Dunn, Arizona now has three of the top five strikeout men in the league: Mark Reynolds is second on 147 K's, Chris Young third at 122 and Dunn is fifth having fanned 120 times.
Dunn has played almost all the season at left-field, and the key question got Arizona is, where are we going to put him? The answer - at least for now - appears to be in right-field, replacing Romero as an everyday player [Incidentally, the promotion of outfielder Salazar to replace Hudson now makes a good deal more sense. I hope he enjoyed his at-bat on Saturday.] That's going to be interesting defensively, as Dunn hasn't played there since August 2003, and will also likely only be a temporary solution, since Justin Upton will (hopefully) be back in a couple of weeks.
That will complicate things even further, and while the waiver-wire claim by Arizona, interestingly, was made before we lost Hudson for the season, this adds even more complexity to the possible lineup At that point, there appear to be four main scenarios open:
Dunn to 1B, Tracy to 3B, Reynolds to 2B
Dunn to 1B, Tracy to bench, Ojeda/Burke to 2B
Dunn to LF, CoJack to 1B, Tracy to 3B, Reynolds to 2B
Dunn to LF, CoJack to 1B, Tracy to bench, Ojeda/Burke to 2B
There are some other possibilities, that would leave Dunn in RF:
Upton moving to CF and Young being benched
Upton going to 2B,
Leaving Upton down in Triple-A and saving the service time.
But the first four seem the most likely. I've added a poll for this topic. Almost any of the viable options should also mean an end to playing-time for Tony Clark; however, given that we also should probably never have brought him back to Arizona to begin with, I am not optimistic this is the case.
Looking at what we are losing. The 23-year old Dallas Buck has Tommy John surgery in June last year, but is now back. He has a 1-5 record between South Bend (A-ball) and Visalia (High-A), with an ERA of 3.55 and K:BB ratio of 28:11. There's some suggestion that the other players may be ones who are currently on the 40-man roster - we would need to clear space there, to make room for Dunn, though we could move Hudson to the 60-day DL and open a spot that way. If not, possibilities there include infielders Javier Brito and Josh Whitesell, catcher Wilkin Castillo, and pitchers Emiliano Fruto and Esmerling Vasquez. I'm almost certain it won't be the untouchables like Scherzer or Parker.
Also worth bearing in mind is, that with Dunn almost certain to be a Type-A free agent, we'll get two additional draft picks in compensation. That's assuming we don't resign Dunn. Much though he would provide the left-handed power-hitter we've been looking for, he would likely be too expensive. He earns a total of $13m this year and, at age 28, will be seeking a prime contract [probably $15-20m per year] in free agency. He and Ramirez are among the cream of the crop among the available outfielders this off-season.
There's no doubt that this will prove a boost to Arizona's struggling offense in the last couple of months. Dunn is not such a BA threat as Ramirez, but his power is undeniable, and he should prosper. If the signing of Manny tipped the balance of power towards the coast, this brings things much closer to being balanced, if not actively towards the desert. And particularly nice timing to get him on board in time for a series in Colorado...
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Personally
I like the idea that Dunn goes to right. There he can be the everyday starter, with everything remaining the same with Jackson, Reynolds, and Tracy, as well as having Augie at 2nd. Then when Tracy gets a break, move Dunn to first, and then put Romero in right, which would leave Burke out of playing time in right field, but i assume he will split with Augie at 2nd.
Crap, scratch that…. Forgot about Upton. lol.
Gambo and Ash just pointed out that if Dunn, Lyon, and Hudson leave in the off-season, we’re going to be awash in compensation draft picks.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
Assuming
he’s a type-A or type-B FA, though?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Assuming that we offer them all arbitration and they don't accept.
It’s also important to keep in mind that you don’t automatically get the 1st round pick of the signing team if that team has one of the first 15 picks.
Fire Bob Melvin
True that. You do risk that a player will go to arb. The club doesn’t offer arb to every FA.
And remember that if the team that picks up our guys also picks up another guy from a different team that also impacts the draft order as well. With the new CBA the comp picks are not as sexy as before. But even before the new CBA then it’s still a crap shoot that those picks ever become impact players at the ML level.
How many of Sir Billy Beans famous Moneyball picks ever made a big impact at the ML level? And those were better draft spots then are now available under the new CBA.
I feel that many people over value the comp picks.
Um.... why would we option down Upton?
We wouldn’t actually SAVE any service time, would we? Since he’s already played enough this year? I’m not understanding the rules here.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
If we could somehow...
Get Upton or Reynolds to play second base, if that really is possible, that would be our best possible lineup offensively, having all Jackson, Tracy, Dunn, Reynolds and Upton in… lol, imagine having the Dunn, Reynolds, and Upton batting all after each other.. i wonder how many consecutive strikeouts they would have…. and Chris Young. lol.
Just kidding, i’ll be positive. I really do like this trade. Though the reds seemed to screw up in my opinion when they were offered Tracy at the trade deadline….
If the signing of Manny tipped the balance of power towards the coast, this brings things much closer to being balanced, if not actively towards the desert. And particularly nice timing to get him on board in time for a series in Colorado…
I don’t think this “tipped the balance of power towards the desert”. I think it WOULD have, but only before O-Dawg got injured.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I think
That Dunn >>>> Romero, while Hudson >> Ojeda. Our lineup is significantly better than it was on Friday, put it that way.
by Jim McLennan on Aug 11, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
True
“players to be named later”
When is later? I think thats the thing I’m most confused on. Why does a team trade a top player when they don’t know what they are getting in return?
They have to be named within six months
Sometimes it will be a player who signed less than a year ago, since players with less service time cannot be traded (i.e., Jarrod Parker didn’t sign until last Aug. 15, so he couldn’t be named as a trade piece until a year later). And yes, that’s just wishful thinking on my part about Parker.
But the point is presumably both sides know who’s going to be traded. There’s just reasons why the players might be named later.
by Brendanukkah on Aug 11, 2008 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
But
it would be necessary this time, if it IS Parker, since Parker only signed just before the deadline last year—August 15th.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I'm not sure that it's "significantly" better.
Going by your scientific “carrot” theory, the net gain is only two carrots—or the difference between O-Dawg starting rather than Augie.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Over on DBBP
rgndvo ran a series of sims, before and after the loss of Hudson, and before and after the trade for Dunn. Here are the figures he came up with:
Lineup 1 – Pre-Dunn, Hudson at 2B
West – Avg wins, % win the division, % win the wc
ARI: 84.4, 69.5, 0.1
Lineup 2 – Pre-dunn, Augie starting at 2B
West – Avg wins, % win the division, % win the wc
ARI: 83.9, 63.9, 0.1
Lineup 3 – Dunn in LF, Conor at 1B, Tracy at 3B, Reynolds at 2B
ARI: 85.3, 75.7, 0.4
Based on this, the loss of Hudson cost us about half a win, but the gain of Dunn is good for 1.4 wins.
by Jim McLennan on Aug 11, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I mean, I allowed that we're much better with Dunn than without.
But this would have been a much stronger move had part of it not been negated by O-Dawg’s injury.
Which isn’t exactly rocket science.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Love him
The Pete Rose worshippers that comprise a vocal majority of the Reds’ fanbase never properly appreciated his talents. He’s not perfect, but I hope he shines with good players around him and a manager who actually knows how to best use his skill set, i.e. not batting him 4 places behind a guy with an OBP of less than .200
I will miss him very much; I will be rooting for the D’backs for the remainder of the season.
Caveat: RF might be a bit brutal. Let’s say he won’t be gunning down anyone going to third.
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
No offense,
but given their off field personas, I’d probably take Dunn over Rose anyday.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
no offense
I don’t think anyone can watch even highlights of Rose and not be excited by his play. But his iconic status as a “hustler” has made a fair percentage of the fan base lose their collective minds. A big, lumbering easy-going player like Dunn never had much of a chance with them.
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on Aug 11, 2008 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Some portions of the Diamondbacks fanbase is more than a bit burnt out on the idea of hustle, so Dunn may be just what we need…
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
The Anti-Byrnes!!
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Eric Byrnes and his "zaniness" worn thin already?
It wouldn’t matter if Byrnes hit below his weight and was injured half the season for diving into the wall going after a 500 foot gopher ball, as long as he ran out to his position, hustled to first base on walks, and “put the ball in play” he’d have a good shot at fan favorite.
see Freel, Ryan
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on Aug 11, 2008 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
What if
“putting the ball in play” meant “popping up to the infield everytime”?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
see Patterson, Corey
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on Aug 11, 2008 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah,
that’s all Dusty though, isn’t it?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I guess
“he’s fast, an elite defender, and can steal you a base ‘r two”
Note: one of these things is true, one of these is false, and one of these things is rendered irrelevant by a historically bad OBP.
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on Aug 11, 2008 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Byrnes is exciting
but when his kind of over-the-top enthusiasm spread to the other players, we ended up with a lot of errors. Our youngsters could use a little more calm.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
I disagree.
His over-the-top enthusiasm has been out of the lineup for awhile, and we STILL get lots of errors. If anything, we NEED more energy in the clubhouse/dugout.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I wonder
if there’s a way to add energy and retain a little self-control.
Here comes another half-baked theory: with Byrnes as our team leader the youngsters tried to make up for mistakes and deficits by making incredible (or ill-advised) plays. Players traded fundamentals for “hustle” and it led to all kinds of mistakes. We had Justin Upton ignoring the cutoff man and trying for ridiculous outfield assists, Mark Reynolds flinging balls into the stands when he should have held them, and middle infielders turuning fielders’ choice hits into errors because they were thinking about making double plays instead of catching the ball.
Of course, I have only my deep conviction that this is true. If you ask for evidence, I’ll have to hide behind the couch again. But it seems like the crazy mistakes have gone down since Byrnesy went out for the season. So I’m thinking that we don’t need any more of his brand of energy.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
Here's a half-baked theory
give Byrnes so weed to calm him down.
(I keed, kind of)
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
I give this theory
an “O”, for “Overanalyzed”. ;-)
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Would Pete Rose
ever dive into first on an obvious groundout?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Of COURSE Rose was a great player.
I’m just saying this when you take their off-the-field lives into account.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
no, I got it
I was just saying that I’m not offended by criticisms of Rose. I am of the Larkin generation and could care less about Pete.
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on Aug 11, 2008 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not just a hustler
he’s a hustla.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
a player's player?
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on Aug 11, 2008 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Is this
a promotional use? Because otherwise, you might be in trouble….
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I'm promotin'
straight up hustlin.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
Almost time!!
I hope they tell us who’s going down, and what the plans are when JUp returns….
by snakecharmer on Aug 11, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah!
C’mon, Jim! What kinda fan site IS this? You’re not going to be streaming it live??
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Unfortunately
The tin cans and string wouldn’t stretch all the way from Chase to my ‘puter here. :-)
by Jim McLennan on Aug 11, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Wish I knew
Doesn’t seem to be on KTAR or the D-backs site.
by Jim McLennan on Aug 11, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Go to diamondbacks.com
And give us a report. :-)
by Jim McLennan on Aug 11, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way,
I like the timing of getting him on an off-day
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Melvin’s saying they’ll put Dunn in right field for now. Unsurprising.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
Apparently
Upton will be the RF, but this allows them to keep him down in Triple-Auntil he’s entirely ready to come back, rather than rushing his return.
That was it????
LAME! lol, yeah i couldn’t hear any of the questions, and i got to watch the end where Melvin was talking…
Ah! I don’t know why, but this trade excites me. lol
Did they say they were going to have another conference tomorrow with Dunn? Or did I hear wrong.
Not much difference
Park Factors overall are similar. Not sure what the LH/RH split is.
by Jim McLennan on Aug 11, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Someone (I forget whom) was pointing out
that in the NL West, Dunn’ll have to face mo’ betta pitching, as well as more pitcher-friendly parks.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Better pitching??
I think Central division has better pitching than the West, or no? I think he is on the team with the best pitching in Webb and Haren, whereas with the Reds he was batting against Sabathia, Harden, Sheets, Zambrano…
No, I think the West still has better pitching. He’ll still have to go up against Peavy, Evil Chris Young, Lincecum, and Billingsley, plus the Dodgers and the Padres play in notorious pitcher’s parks. It’s pretty much the same thing we talked about when Manny switched over here.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
Dodger Stadium hasn’t been a pitchers park for the last decade or so.
Co-Author Of The Fourth Most Popular NL West Based Blog On SBN
The park factor (#30 of 30 in the majors) will be surprised to find that out.
Besides, nearly everything is a pitcher’s park when you’re in the division with Coors and Chase.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
Sample size fluke, the park factor is 104 over the last three years.
Co-Author Of The Fourth Most Popular NL West Based Blog On SBN
Four and a half months is a small sample size?
Seriously, people, is this going to start covering a longer period of time, until two years from now when someone’s going to say “No way should so-and-so have won Rookie of the Year, it’s only one season, you can’t give it out based on such a small sample size”?
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Penny, Peavy,
Evil Chris Young, Cook, Kershaw, etc.
I guess the NL West’s pitching certainly doesn’t look quite as daunting without Webby, Haren, and sometimes even RJ.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Billingsley, too.
Thx Devin.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I had to look it up, to be honest
I was thinking, “They’ve got to have someone intimidating in their starting rotation, right?”
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
Dunn is a beast. The pitching staffs will not make a big difference. It’s not like he’s going from AAA to the bigs.
This baffles me.
If I had to pick one player to epitomize every single thing that Foul Pole hates in a baseball player it would be Adam Dunn. Let’s see, extremely defensively challenged left fielder (and even worse at first), very low batting average, Ks a ton, hated by “old school baseball types”, and above all else, he’s pretty much the prototypical Moneyball slugger.
Maybe OPS is everything after all…
Not EVERYTHING that foulpole hates in a baseball player.
Dunn is 28, which is above foulpole’s necessary minimum age of 25 or 26. (I can’t quite tell)
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
OTOH,
maybe foulpole’s just hoping that Dunn can produce more 12 pitch strikeouts, which are OBVIOUSLY more helpful than four pitch walks, since they wear out the pitcher…...
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 12, 2008 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
From ballparks.com
Great American: Dimensions: Left field foul pole: 328 feet; left field power alley: 379 feet; center field: 404 feet; right field power alley: 370 feet; right field foul pole: 325 feet; backstop: 55 feet; foul territory: small.
Chase Field: Dimensions: Left field: 330 ft., power alleys: 374 ft., center field: 407 ft., deepest left-center and right-center: 413 ft., right field: 334 ft.
This season, Chase is the highest park factor in the majors, while Great American is #18, according to ESPN.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
I was gonna say
my guess is that GABP is slightly smaller than Chase, but the air here is thinner and drier.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
That's why
it’s thinner, and part of the reason why it’s drier.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Park factors
don’t really matter a whole lot with Dunn. At RR we’ve gotten used to referring to his hit tracker every few months to disprove some mouthbreather’s theory that he’s helped inordinately by Great American’s dimensions.
Bottom line: He rarely hits “cheap” home runs and his Home/Away splits for homers are just fine.
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on Aug 11, 2008 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
For the record.
outfield size is far from the most important factor in determining whether a park is a good hitter’s park. Chase field’s outfield is 117,000 square feet, second largest in the majors. It’s the heat, elevation and batter’s eye that makes Chase a launching pad.
For more proof, the park with the largest outfield in baseball? Coors Field.
Awesome
ESPN’s player page for Dunn already has him in a Diamondbacks hat. Probably someone just photoshopped the D over the C, but it’s nice to see.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
....
sure looks like a Cincy Reds hat, to me….
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Holy crap....
it just changed between now (3:25PM) and then (3:22PM).
It MIGHT be photoshopped, (especially with the vibrancy of that red hat) but his shirt looks different now. (Of course, they might do that to make it look less photoshopped. Hmmm….)
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Although
he’s still shown under the Reds’ roster.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Wow, everyone
It’s been like 4 hours, relax, give it time… :)
by snakecharmer on Aug 11, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I'm actually a bit concerned....
The Dodgers obviously didn’t try to block this, but apparently one or both of our PTBNLs has to clear waivers….
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Right but they can deal with that later...
Sal B on AN says 8 teams were ahead of us: Astros, Dodgers, Braves, Pirates, Rockies, Giants, Padres, Nationals.
by snakecharmer on Aug 11, 2008 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm suprised the Astros didn't take him...
They have done every other outrageous thing out there this year. lol
I've never been clear on this
What happens if they don’t pass waivers. Does that nullify the deal or do they have agreed-upon alternatives?
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
But if they don't have to be named for 6 months
That can’t exactly un-do a deal where a player’s played for 3 months already…
(I don’t know either.)
by snakecharmer on Aug 11, 2008 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I was
wondering the same thing.
Jim? shoe? Wes?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I'd imagine
It depends on the parameters of the deal. They could agree on a replacement, or just hold off on moviing the players until after the season, when waivers no longer apply.
by Jim McLennan on Aug 11, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I know!
I went to the MLB Homerun stat, and of course Dunn has a pitcher since he’s the leader, and he was in a Dbacks hat. It was pretty cool to see.
I think he’d have more room to complain if he wasn’t in Tucson.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
Yeah, I was going to say that
He could get a better deal if he weren’t in Tucson… now, I’m not sure he has a choice.
by snakecharmer on Aug 11, 2008 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahhh
Those numbers of Dunn with runners on base are a little frightening.. Lets hope a new team will change those numbers!
Irrelevant.
Statistically speaking, at least, it’s all bullshit.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Wow
That came out of right field, but I like the move :) not sure how to shuffle the lineup when Upton comes back though :/
So...time for another drink then?
ESPN NEWS
Just said, “In exchange for 2 minor league pitchers and 2 players to be named later..”
Maybe she made a mistake?
That would
certainly contradict every other story out there? Not to mention the fact that ESPN isn’t exactly known for their accuracy…
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Yeah
I went back and it says 3 prospects, but she said 2 minor league pitchers and 2 players to be named later. I’m sure she misread or something.
Dunn
with a .901 OPS this year?
I like that. I didn’t realize that he walks as much as he does. Granted, I presume that he’ll walk less with Reynolds behind him, but still.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Sabernomics
has an interesting article about “protection” or lack thereof. It may not matter who’s batting behind him.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
Then why
does Chris Burke draw so many walks in the 8 spot? :-)
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I've said this before, but oh well
Look over there!
::hides under the sofa::
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
But it is an interesting study
If my economics classes had been 1/10th this interesting, I may actually have enjoyed them.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
Maybe, maybe not
To compare Reynolds with Encarnacion, who looks to be the guy batting behind Dunn:
Encarnacion: .250/.338/..487
Reynolds: .246/.324/.491
Now, just for a lark, a look at their numbers with runners on:
Encarnacion: .206/.338/.338
Reynolds: .301/.361/.543
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
UNCLUTCH!!!!111!!!
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Walking is part of Dunn's game
He’s never really had anyone at Cinci protecting him. He’s got a great eye. Over the last five years, no one has more walks than he does. His batting average is low, but his on base percentage is pretty consistently around .380 or so.
The joke around Red Reporter was that he always took “soft walks” when he should have been getting hits. It was a joke to us, but infuriating to those who didn’t realize that making an out is bad. At any rate, he will walk a ton, have no fear about that.
by Brendanukkah on Aug 11, 2008 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Soft walk?
That sounds a lot like a Pribbie.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
Exactly
His solo home runs were “rally killers,” thanks to a notion that was best exemplified by Tim McCarver, saying that innings that start with a base hit score more runs than an inning that starts with a home run.
Naturally Dunn hit too many solo home runs and not enough three run jacks. Nevermind that no one was getting on base ahead of him for him to drive in, or that Dusty (and Jerry Narron before him) would bat him way too low in the order.
by Brendanukkah on Aug 11, 2008 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Well,
BoMel, in the press conference, said that Dunn will be batting cleanup today vs. the Rox, with CoJack batting third, and with Reynolds and Tracy behind him….
Wow…. I suddenly REALLY like this move by our FO even more. CoJack, Dunn, and Reynolds, all batting back to back to back? This season, that’s a combined 213 RBIs, 201 runs scored and 68 HRs. (Granted, CoJack isn’t much of a HR hitter—but Dunn and Reynolds together have 56!)
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 12, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Sounds a lot
like the traditional criticism of CoJack, with his eagle eye. Although he’s gotten more aggressive this year.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Claimed off of waivers?
Why was Dunn put on waivers by the Reds? Can someone explain to me the thinking behind that move on the Reds part. I’m sure there has to be some logical explanation….
They probably put him through waivers
to trade him to us?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Although,
this time of year, a lot of times, teams put some of their players through waivers anyway, even without some preexisting trade in mind, if for no other reason than to test the waters.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Don't most players
end on waivers during this time of the year?
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
This must REALLY have come together quickly,
especially for the Dodgers to not even catch wind of it.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
They trade like ninjas!
Everyone missed this one, not just the Dodgers. Instead of studying, I’ve been looking back over the usual news sources for most of the afternoon. There wasn’t a peep about this trade until just before it happened.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
Yup.
I can’t find it in any rumors pages until today.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Sure seems like it
It must have. One of the Reds fans was on an ESPN board on the 8th talking about Dunn being traded… Did any of you have any idea about this? I was sure shocked when i turned on the TV. I happened to look up and saw.. “Adam Dunn for 3 prospects” and i was hopinh it was the dbacks, and had to rewind it and saw the “Diamondbacks acquired” part. It was sweet! lol
Adam Dunn trade rumors
have been plentiful. His contract expires after this season, and the Reds weren’t sure they could keep them. But none of the trade speculation even hinted at the D-Backs as a trade partner.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
This is what a Reds fan said on Friday...
I’m a Reds fan here in Cincy, I just heard from a good source that the D-Backs claimed Dunn off waivers, and the Reds have until 7:00PM to match. Anyone heard this?
So maybe something was spilled out in Cincy, i don’t know. And it was funny because all the dbacks fans that day and even Saturday were saying how much of a joke that was, and he came back today and said “Told you.” lol
IIRC
Tracy for Dunn was being touted as possible before the trade deadline.
by Jim McLennan on Aug 11, 2008 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, straight up.
But that was quite awhile ago, I thought.
This is a better trade for us. :-D
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I'm curious
to see who gonna be named later, but the trade looks great right now.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
I guess
trading Chad Tracy for 3 minor leaguers is the price the Reds paid for waiting until after the trade deadline.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Yep
Link – Jon Heyman, July 29
The Rays have contacted Cincinnati about Adam Dunn, who still needs a new home. The Rays were hoping for a right-handed hitter, but it appears likely now that their favorite target Jason Bay will wind up in Boston, assuming the three-team blockbuster to send Manny Ramirez to Florida is completed. However, they could still use offense, and could wind up with Dunn. The Diamondbacks and another NL team were said to have made plays for Dunn, with the D’backs offering Chad Tracy. The Reds appear to have been unmoved by the other two plays and will now give Tampa a shot at the man who’s hit as many home runs as anyone over the past five years.
by Jim McLennan on Aug 11, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I got word of this
at work a few minutes ago, and all of the baseball fans were calling each other back and forth, “did you hear what happened…did you hear?”
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
Wait -- enthusiasm?
For baseball? In Arizona? What??
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Too bad we don’t have the media telling us what to cheer for, like in LA.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
Does anyone think
ESPN might try this kinda BS in Phoenix? Now that we’ve got Adam Dunn?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Does anyone think
ESPN could find Phoenix on a map?
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
But if they did
I’d suggest a Joseph McCarthy theme. “Lose a Red, Cincinnati? ESPN wants to know if you are, or ever have been, a member of the Communist Party.”
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
In the Barry Goldwater state?
Yeah, that might play well. I like it. ;-)
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Hmmm.....
What if the map had an index?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I doubt it
he played for the Reds, and now plays for the Diamondbacks. He might as well have played in Estonia as far as ESPN cares.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
Well, this is like
he used to play for Estonia, but he just got traded to….. Nigeria. Oooooh!!
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I do love some of the comments on that article, though
Particularly “I guess we don’t need gimmicky guerilla ad campaigns to get interested in our team.” Also, the guy complaining about Manny leaving, saying maybe Manny would be back “when we’ve got rid of our loser gm theo”. Yeah, ‘cause their GM has been nothing but terrible for Boston.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
Dunno about you, but I blame Theo Epstein
for the Red Sux not winning any World Series’ from 1917 until 2004….
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Enjoy Adam Dunn
Cincinnati fans never really appreciated him. Any chance the Reds could have thrown Dusty Baker in to the trade?
The Dusty Path to the World Series!*
*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.
I don't know
we DO have some young pitchers.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
You think Baker is worse than Melvin’s policy of leaving pitchers out there when they’re obviously got nothing, just to show them that the team has confidence in them?
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
This is largely anecdotal
but I remember Baker grinding young pitchers into paste when I lived near San Francisco. BoMel’s shennanigans are merely neglectful. A lot of Baker’s decisions were outright destructive.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
DID
have some young pitchers. we seem hell bent on getting that farm bare
Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong.
by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 11, 2008 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess you'd think that
if you’ve never seen a baseball game before.
(I keed, but seriously, Dusty Baker is awful)
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
I’ve only paid the faintest attention to Dusty since he left the NL West, really.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
Two guys you might have heard of:
Mark Prior and Kerry Wood?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Don't forget
Shawn Estes.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
Kyle Farnsworth
was very highly regarded until Dusty was done with him, too.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Wow.
He could have his own All-Star team.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
How do you field an All-Star team
made of one-armed pitchers?
Well, in Kerry Wood’s case, I guess, one and a half arms.
Don’t forget Jason Schmidt.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Yeah.
The gripes against Dusty aren’t much different than the gripes against BoMel—bunting, preference for veterans, pitcher management, etc.
At least BoMel’s pitch management only costs games. Dusty’s costs pitchers their arms.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Yes, yes he could
Don’t even think about it. :P
by snakecharmer on Aug 11, 2008 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And thanks for stopping by. :-)
We’ll give Dunn a good home—and hopefully some postseason games, too. Would be awesome if we somehow resigned him….
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
With luck, it'll get him
Off the list of most games played without a post-season appearance. He’s currently #12 among active players, with 1,087. Leading the list is an ex-Diamondback… Damion Easley, at 1,679. Skins, you’ll be pleased to hear third place, on 1,408 goes to Randy Winn. :-)
by Jim McLennan on Aug 11, 2008 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Winn's been earning
some brownie points with us though with his play over the weekend against that team in blue in LA
Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong.
by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 11, 2008 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I require
more penitence than that.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Sweeeeet.....
Evil must not go unpunished!!
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Wanna see something awesome?
Go here.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
SFW,
don’t worry.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I give you...
....the quote of the day:
The Diamondbacks management is just so much better than the Dodgers.
I’m not sure what to make of this.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
You don't think
Josh Byrnes is a better GM than Ned Colletti? He’s got the lowest payroll in the division….
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Shh...
they’ll hear you!
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
Oh noes!
Then they might try to buy Josh Byrnes!!
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Or they might
get cocky. We need them to have a low self-esteem.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
I do like
the emphasis on building with young players much more than building via free-agents. The Dan Haren trade was also very impressive. Even though I’m not an As fan, I loved the way is was a win for both teams. I think that kind of deal-making ability makes it easier to negotiate with other teams in the future. There have been a few disappointing moves, but I’d rate our management pretty high.
I know next to nothing about the Dodgers’ front office, but they were being hailed as “Brilliant!”(TM) just a week ago. Guess that’s the end of the salad days.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
Well, a lot of writers
claimed that the Dodgers basically got Manny “for nothing”. By that logic, the Dbacks just got Adam Dunn for even less nothing. (Except that we’ll be paying part of Dunn’s salary) At least in LaRoche, the Doggers gave up some Major League ready material.
Dunn hits more homers and probably walks more, but Manny is probably the better hitter overall. But unless one of the PTBNLs is Jarrod Parker, which it isn’t, then I REALLY like this trade even better than I hate the Dodgers trade.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I don't really feel
like joining their site, but a lot of Reynolds’ mistakes seemed to be linked to rushing throws. Perhaps him being at 2nd might help fix that problem with a shorter distance to throw to. Will anyone in that spot be Hudson? No, but they’re making it out like we’re putting a combination of the Washington Generals and the Belgium Army out there for defense.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
My only concern with him at 2nd base
Would be turning double plays, and getting to the bag. Hudson and Drew did that so well.
Reynolds is fast enough on his feet.
WTH? Let’s go ahead and try it.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
This from the team
that has Angel Berroa playing shortstop.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
I realize that the Dodger defense is atrocious and I constantly complain about it. I feel like I can mock a Reynolds and second base idea.
Co-Author Of The Fourth Most Popular NL West Based Blog On SBN
Of course.
This is the spirit of rivalry.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
It'd be an adventure
but I think he’d do OK. It’s been a point of good-natured contention here, but playing at second base may help mask his areas of weakness. He’ll get a little more time to see the ball before it gets to him and he’ll be a lot closer to first base. Hopefully this will mean fewer bobbles and fewer errant throws into the stands.
But that’s just wild conjecture. He might not even land at second base. But it sure is fun to speculate.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
I just looked this up to post at True Blue LA,
but…. interesting numbers:
Mark Reynolds, playing 2B in the minors:
.975 F% (highest of any position), 4.83 range factor (also highest)
In comparison, Orlando Hudson playing 2B for us this year:
.982 F%, 4.61 range factor
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Go ahead and join.
There’s no waiting period, unlike SOME SBN sites….
Besides, with you and I both registered, something like 10% of their total membership would be Dbacks fans. ;-)
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I'm registered, too
One or two more people and we might have a majority… =)
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
Oh dear....
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
It'd be fitting revenge
For AZWILDCATS posting here… :-)
by Jim McLennan on Aug 11, 2008 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I already post there
on occasion
Well, I only have 5 or 6 of them, but I already am a member.
Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong.
by unnamedDBacksfan on Aug 11, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if
we could lead a coup and overthrow the leadership, making it a satellite Dbacks blog?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Seems like too much work
Let’s just arm them and send them off to war against GLB.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
Nah.
GLB outnumbers them by like a factor of 10. I’d rather turn McCC against GLB—much more even numbers.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Oh, but there’s no coordination at GLB. I think a good guerrilla war would be just what the situation calls for.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
Nonsense.
This is conventional warfare all the way. Guerrilla warfare isn’t ALWAYS successful, you know. Just ask the Filipino Insurrectos.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Oh, don’t assume that I’m looking for a victory here. Just something nice and time-consuming to tie up both parties and keep them away from us.
Yeah, I’m taking the worst parts of US foreign policy history and applying it to interblog warfare.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
So, you're saying that
a stalemate is actually a victory for the guerrillas?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I just don't have anything to say to them
nothing against them, but I know how annoying it is to have people that only talk about their team, and I don’t think I’m confident enough to talk about the Dodgers in any intelligent fashion.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
Awwww
I actually like Barry Bonds.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
Maybe
a little too much emphasis on the “like” (I just discovered the bold and italics buttons). But I watched him for about 5 years and he was an amazing player. I can’t speak to the PED accusations, but his reputation for jackassery was hugely exaggerated. On the whole, he was an incredible asset for the Giants and I would have enjoyed seeing him play in Arizona.
I still have hopes that he ends up somewhere, but they’re fading pretty fast.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
We had a long discussion about it
back when the rumors were stronger, and I agree that I wouldn’t mind having him around especially since he wants to pay for nothing.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
Exactly.
Barry Bonds? The home run KING? For the league minimum, to be donated to children??
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
You'd go for Bonds
but not Rose?
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
When did I say
I wouldn’t want Rose playing for my team? I didn’t.
Besides, when Bonds cheated, (assuming he did) it was to get MORE competitive. Gambling creates the risk that you might intentionally allow your team to be less competitive.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Backtrackin'
besides, his teams were less competitive because he wasn’t a good manager.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
Let me help you?
I actually like Barry Bonds in the Dbacks’ lineup.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
To be fair
if we’re going to acquire a former Sun Devil, I’d rather it be Ian Kinsler.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
Dustin Pedroia?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Not that either is available
but I imagine Kinsler would be more likely between the two.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
Pedroia
would help us more, since he can play 2nd.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Do you think
Reynolds would better at 2nd?
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
I think
the point was that Kinsler can’t play it well, which is a bit of crap.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
No.
Brainfart.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Oh
so you didn’t imply anything? Well, my point still stands. Sort of.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
I concede the point.
Although, I’m not entirely sure what I’m conceding.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Broken link,
by the way.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Hmmm....
Then, I guess you should be pretty happy about us nailing door the shut?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
ouch
low blow
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
i am aware
who cust is…i’m an a’s fan. and nice, i’d never heard ath-ped-ics before. no one really bags on the a’s around the bay because the giants are nearby
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
Foulpole
isn’t exactly the sharpest tool around here. Don’t mind him.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
it's cool
thanks skins.
any confirmation on if dunn is wearing 44? and is owings going to go the way of rick ankiel/adam loewen/brian bogusevic?
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
No confirmation yet about either of those questions, I believe.
It’s rumored that one of the PTBNLs is Owings, though.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
not trying to troll...
...but seriously, who cares about PED’s? honestly. don’t rip my team when you have no idea what players on yours used or not. you employed jason grimsley.
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
Believe me
you’re not trolling. You keep shining, you crazy diamond.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
You're not trolling at all.
Don’t worry about it. PEDs are so 2004.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Defending Dunn
Here’s a couple of Diaries, er, FanPosts™, written by BLee2525 at Red Reporter last year. It should give some context to and ammunition against the oft-repeated criticisms of Dunn vis-a-vis RBIs, strikeouts, “clutch,” his performance vs. Aces and other ignus fatuus of the fevered mind.
http://www.redreporter.com/story/2007/8/6/19025/18291
http://www.redreporter.com/2007/8/17/19327/2369
http://www.redreporter.com/2008/3/8/181319/5986
Seriously, required reading…
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
"Clutch"
Indeed. He’s no Derek Jeter. ::snicker::
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
indeed
he plays better D
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on Aug 11, 2008 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. Clutchness is so important.
Like, I would WAAAY rather have the totally NOT overrated at all Jeter than that TOTALLY unclutch Alex Rodriguez guy.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Whether the Diamondbacks
win the NL West or not, put me on record as being delighted they shelled out some cash to acquire an established offensive batsman when the flag is really up for grabs – something they’ve talked about for years and finally came through on. Should be a fun stretch run.
I think it’s a mistake to shift Reynolds to second and fill in with someone like Tracy at third. A big point to getting Dunn is that he singlehandedly catapults the Dbacks near a league average offense (in a terrible league), and saves you the trouble of putting infielders out of position defensively to make up for Hudson’s bat. Now you can afford to start Ojeda at second offensively, keep Reynolds at third, and maintain some semblance of a defense.
Right now, I’m liking:
Ojeda 2B
Tracy/Upton RF
CoJack LF
Dunn 1B
Reynolds 3B
Drew SS
Young CF
Catcher
Pitcher
Lots of strikeouts, but that top four’s gonna piss a lot of pitchers off.
Is that your batting order too?
If so, maybe Drew higher, so he can be on base in front of our RBI guys…
I like it too
but I’d swap Drew and Ojeda. Now if I can get BoMel to take my calls.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
Traditionally,
Drew’s more of a slugger than an OBP guy, which is why we always bitch about him leading off. (The exception being the current hot streak, of course)
I’d rather he get an opportunity to drive in runs, especially since despite his speed, he seems almost afraid to steal bases.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
In the lineup that diamondhacks posted...
I was thinking that maybe Drew could be in the #3 spot, so he could drive in whoever was on base, and also be on base for our “sluggers”. or no?
Nah.
I think he’s more of a #5 or #6 hitter at this point in his career.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
I love this deal. We needed to get more left handed and more power. J-Up can stay in Tucson until the rosters are expanded. My guess is that Romero gets sent down.
My WAG on the new line up:
Wolf ss
CJ LF
Trace 1b
Dunn RF
Reynolds 3b
Augie 2b
CY CF
Snydes c
pitcher
"WAG"?
Wives And Girlfriends?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 12, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Season not dunn yet.
Reynolds can’t play defense at third, so move him to second where he has more time to react to the ball.
The team that disappoints, the Arizona Diamondbacks.
He hasn't been
bad at 3rd. He’s made some pretty unbelievable plays, and also some errors. But second base is a lot more ground to cover.
See,
I don’t really have a lot of worry that Reynolds can get to the ball, somehow. He usually makes mistakes only after he gets there.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
He has speed and 2nd is much closer to first than third,
but what about a ground ball with a runner on third, can Reynolds make that throw?
The team that disappoints, the Arizona Diamondbacks.
Dunn - who plays?
TRacy has to be platooned – that is just obvious. The guy is strictly in the lineup for his bat and has a career 627 OPS against LH pitchers. Remarkably, Ojeda has a career 685 OPS against LH pitchers.
Also, Dunn is merely below average as a 1B (per baseballprospectus) where he’s pretty much awful as an outfielder.
So here’s what I’m thinking: Dunn at 1B with a platoon of Tracy against RH (at 3B with Reynolds at 2B) and Ojeda against LH (Reynolds at 3B).
This depends on Reynolds being able to play 2B but I would note that he did play 24 games at 2B in the minors and put up at least a decent fielding %
Why is Augie's OPS remarkable?
He’s a switch-hitter….
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Augie is just
terrible hitter and I was surprised that his OPS is actually higher than Tracy’s. 685 is not good but 627 for a guy who isn’t a good fielder is just unacceptable.
Augie's OPS against RH is 527 - he should not be permitted to bat against RH under any circumstances. (You know, like he was 4 times in the NLCS last year.)Which part of
a career 636 OPS do you find appealing?
Stats are Stats.
Personally, i love having him in the lineup. Finds a way to contribute every game. But i’m not a “stats” guy so i don’t really look into that. So whatever you think is fine, we just have two different opinions.
Guy who puts up a .354 OBP and then follows it up with a .358 is certainly someone who can be appreciated on an offense like the Diamondbacks have.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
I was going to make the same point --
our team OBP is more of an issue than our team slugging.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Exactly
OPS or OPS+ are good stand alone measures to get a quick sense of a player’s offensive contribution in a neutralized context (park, arbitrary position in an arbitrary lineup), but they’re also broad measures that dont always translate value well to particular circumstances.
Augie’s never gonna be a big run producer, but I think anyone who’se watched him bat the last few years would be hard pressed to call the .350 OBP a fluke, even though it’s above his lifetime mark. Zero pop, but the guy puts together some insanely pesky ABs and is a certifiable munchkin to pitch to. With CoJack and Tracy and Reynolds and Dunn behind him, he doesnt need pop. Just annoy the pitcher and get on base 32-35% of the time.
Ojeda’s obviously not as good an overall hitter as Drew, and I dont mind Melvin inserting Drew in the one or two hole based on matchups, but more generally I believe that when you package three or four pretty good OBP guys in a row, they become more productive than the sum of their parts (indiv. stats), getting on base for each other, fatiguing the pitcher with their collective patience.
Seems like BoMel doesnt really buy into that. I give him credit for putting Conor and Oh Dawg back to back way before anyone here advocated it, but we also know what a mess he’s made of the 1 and 2 holes over the years. I think it goes back to 2004, when he lost his job after Ichiro slapped 262 hits leading off and Seattle still had a sucky offense. That’ll shake up your thinking, I imagine. Bob’s been balancing (rather than maximizing) his lineup cards ever since.
by Diamondhacks on Aug 11, 2008 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The comment about Ichiro is very insightful. I never stopped to think what the motivation behind Melvin’s lineup cards might be… other than just thinking he didn’t get it. I still think he doesn’t get it… but it’s a helpful to understand why.
"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck
by njjohn on Aug 12, 2008 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+2
1 for ‘hacks and 1 for John
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 12, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks
Just for the record, I dont think Bob’s lineup philosophy begins and ends with Ichiro. 2005 provided even more pain, the “other half” of BoMel’s formative lineup experience, IMO. Maybe we can delve into that in a different thread, but generally speaking, ever since those two “owies”, he’s tried to avoid building a strong lineup third, if it undermines either remaining third – spreading his best hitters across the lineup rather than compacting them. That’s what I meant by balancing, and it’s certainly a departure from conventional wisdom.
My suspicion is that this approach theoretically increases the team’s frequency of scoring a run across a variety of innings (ie “we can score in more innings than the traditional approach”), but decreases overall quantity of runs produced (ie sabotages some big innings). If this is true, the distribution might also shed light on some of Bob’s eye-popping pythag gaps.
by Diamondhacks on Aug 12, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Augie has a good OBP his last 300 ABs, around .365, but it is likely a fluke. Those AB’s came over 4 years. Over the same years he also had over 1,000 ABs in AAA, where he put up a .340ish OBP. The major league equivilent to a AAA .340 OBP o is around .300 OBP.
What’s the more likely event. That a hitter with the natural ability to produce a .365 OBP in the MLB puts up a significantly worse OBP vs. AAA pitchers for two full years of at bats? Or that a .300 OBP ability MLB hitter puts up a .365 for essentially three months of MLB at bats spread out over 4 years?
And Melvin’s lineups have been horrible. Chris Young never had any business in the lead off spot, O-Dawg should have been first every game with CoJack right behind him. You bat not just your best OBP guys up front, but your best hitters as well so that you maximize the number of at bats they get. An outmaker like CY should never be getting the most at bats on any team. He did help CY be one of the league leaders in outs made last year and tried to do again this year.
Again, Drew should never sniff the front of the order with his awful OBP. I’d like to see CoJack lead off, Dunn second, then Reynolds-Snyder-Drew-Tracy/Platoon Partner-Augie-Pitcher-CY. Batting CY last gives CoJack/Dunn more base-runners the second or third time through the order and the pitcher is only going to get 2 at bats usually unless we have a nice lead. When Upton comes back move Dunn to first, and bat Upton ahead of Drew.
Regarding Augie
I dont think we disagree much, really. I expect him to reach 32-35% of the time, hit balls on the ground, be able to bunt, not whiff too much,and foul off a bunch of pitches. That, contrasted with BoMel’s lower OBP alternatives you mentioned, is why I advocate Augie leading off.
I share much of the logic underlying your proposed lineup. But let me ask you this. Do we really want our toughest outs (defined by OBP) batting 1,2 – namely CoJack and Dunn? Sure, they’ll get on base, but for whom? I realize Reynolds has hit well with runners on, but he, Snyder and Drew all have significant holes in their swings that can be exploited by a pitcher in a jam, cant they?
With Hudson out (who probably should’ve been leading off all along for a variety of reasons), I think we’re left with three generic lineup approaches.
1. Your approach – start with your two best OBP (and OPS, btw) guys and leave the “driving” to a string of lesser boppers to follow.
2. BoMel’s approach – mix n match terrible OBP guys up front, followed by your best hitters (CoJack & Hudson – now, presumably, replaced by Dunn).
3. Identify your only other league ave OBP guys ( I’d argue Ojeda and Tracy/Upton roughly fit that bill) and have them set the table for your truly best hitters (CoJack, Dunn), who, in turn, will get on base for the lesser boppers.
by Diamondhacks on Aug 12, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Tracy can't hit LHP for shit.
This is not exactly a news flash….
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Keith Law comments
Over at ESPN. You have to be an Insider to get most of it, but I am not exactly encouraged to pay when the last “open” sentence is, “Sitting Tracy would allow Arizona to return Conor Jackson to first base, creating a better defensive alignment.”
Do these people watch the games at all? Or just pontificate? Jackson has been much better in LF than at 1B. Anyway, I’m off for the night: feel free to spawn an overflow thread, if this one gets bogged down at 500+ comments. I see we’re already at 300… So much for the quiet off-day!
.
Do these people watch the games at all?
I strongly suspect that the answer is no. They’ve probably got some interns who get them the important bits, and a sheet of stats to look out.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
I'm off for the night too
But it looks like kishi and ‘Skins might be around to help the overflow. Or if not, someone can find me on IM. :)
by snakecharmer on Aug 11, 2008 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm still here...
:-(
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
Well, yeah
I didn’t mean to exclude the rest of you, lol!
But don’t you dance Mondays?
by snakecharmer on Aug 11, 2008 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
We'll keep an eye on it
I suspect that as the evening goes on, we’ll get more comments on the Phillies-Dodgers game- probably keep those over in the Off-Day Thread.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
We should just
redirect all that to the Off-Day Thread. It’s on ESPN2, as well, so more people can tune if they desire.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
I'll be there.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Watch the games?
Of course not. That would involve them doing their jobs.
We have to strongly remind people at the paper not to fall into such writing disasters. Do your research, get your own quotes, don’t cherry pick somebody else. Unfortunately, a number of national writers seem to like rushing to meet deadline and filling a story with as much speculation and off-the-mark judgment as actual news.
Why would they watch the games?
It doesn’t matter. We’re a team from the flyover zone.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Do these people watch the games at all?
This is what I’ve been saying. I suspect a lot of their analysis comes directly from a stat sheet (if it comes from anything outside their own brains). They look at a few numbers, make the most obvious conclusion and put the column to bed. Now if only the most obvious conclusion had anything to do with what actually happened.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
I can't wait for the game tomorrow
maybe…just maybe… this might make everyone excited and we go on a roll… just maybe. lol
I kinda wonder about that too.
Really, if being in a dogfight for the division wasn’t already enough incentive, this should be some kind of momentum boost or something. I mean come on.
Plus
they get to play against the Rockies, who although are better now then the last time we faced them, are still not that great of a team. It’s feasting time.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
And hopefully they know that they’re just two wins away from winning the season series against the Rockies, and assuring Snakepit Day at Purple Row.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
No kidding
I don’t think there could have been a better time to get Dunn… In colorado, so hopefully this pumps up Reynolds and Chris Young to jack homeruns like they were in April
I think that Reynolds to second is worth a shot,
Reynolds has the ability to range, but most of his mistakes come on hot shot balls hit right at him and/or throwing errors. Second would accentuate the positives and minimize the negatives – whether that’s enough to make him an average second baseman remains to be seen, but desperate times call for desperate measures.
And when it comes to platooning Tracy, to be honest I don’t think the decision between Tracy and Augie should come down to the platoon advantage so much as who we have pitching. With Webb on the mound, Augie should get the start. Then you can go back to a more conventional lefty/righty split.
desperate times call for desperate measures.
These are challenging, exciting times, but I’m not sure I’d call them desperate – certainly not desperate enough to radically alter key defensive responsibilities. The way I look at it, we lost a very solid two way player at a key position when Hudson broke his wrist. Dunn more than compensates for the lost offense, but what about the team D, already suffering from the loss of a healthy Byrnes, and now made that much worse with the arrival of Dunn? It seems to me shifting Reynolds to second ensures we’ll be measurably worse at two IF positions than we were before Hudson went down (ie Reynolds for Oh Dawg and Tracy for Reynolds @ third). Regardless of who plays first, that’s a plodding defensive infield around the horn.
Mark’s a good athlete, but he’s 220 lbs and in terms of second base I’m neither sold on his range (foot speed & grace) nor hand speed (transferring the ball from glove on the pivot, etc). I can appreciate what you’re saying about Ojeda in support of Webb, and I’m sure Mark could fill in at second during an emergency, but I’m considerably less confident with Drew/Reynolds as the everyday tandem up the middle over these crucial seven weeks than I would be with Drew/Ojeda – even accounting for the relative offensive drain.
Put another way, we’re not replacing a left fielder here. You’re asking a fair third baseman to jump two notches on the defensive spectrum to tackle a more demanding and critical assignment in the field. Nothing against Mark, but I think that (in concert with Chad at third and Dunn anywhere) spells pending disaster for our entire pitching staff.
by Diamondhacks on Aug 12, 2008 4:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Reynolds
in the minors had a 4.83 range factor as a 2B and a .975 fielding %, far and away his best defensive numbers at any position. O-Dawg this year has a 4.61 RgF. Is it because Hudson’s good enough defensively that he gets himself set everytime before the ball is put into play? Maybe, but Hudson HAS gotten noticeably worse on defense this year. O-Dawg’s reputation for great defense has been much more a reputation than a fact this year. CY’s our true defensive stud now.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 12, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
The problem with Hudson sometimes
is that he’ll make blindingly spectacular plays that make you forget the times when he looks almost average.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
+1
And replace “almost average” with “subpar” there, and you’ve got Reynolds.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
And that's what's funny
about awards. Reynolds makes a spectacularly bad play and everyone remembers that, and Hudson does and everyone forgets. Of course, Reynolds will also make multiple bad plays a game or inning, so it’s not completely undeserved.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
Reynold to second, Tracy to third
Makes us significantly worse defensively. Is Tracy that much better at the plate than Ojeda to warrant that? That high-BABIP fueled July aside, I say no.
Reynolds was a poor defensive second baseman in the minors
That was the general consenus. Moving him now, in the middle of a season, is a high risk- low reward experiment. All to keep Tracy playing full time when he’s only a platoon player and a weak defensive player at every position?
Tracy always has a high BABIP because of line drives. But his slump is concerning, those drives ain’t leaving the park.
The simple and best solution is to platoon Dunn with Upton & Tracy. The three quarters of the time we face right handers Dunn plays RF and Tracy first base. Upton struggles against righties. Upton also comes in as a defensive replacement in late innings, so he’ll still get lots of playing time. Against left handed starters, Dunn plays first base, Tracy sits, and Upton starts. That’s our best offensive lineup and still a pretty good defensive alignment. The three quarters of the games where Dunn is in right is partially offset by using Upton late in the games we have a lead in, and you can keep Dunn in the game by moving him to first, where his defense isn’t any worse than Tracy’s.
Reynolds can continue to concentrate on mastering third, Ojeda can play a credible 2nd, so defense is pretty good. Our only soft spots will be 3rd, first, and RF, and none of those are premium defensive positions. SS, 2B, CF, and Catcher should remain excellent and they make the bulk of the plays.
You consider Drew
an “excellent” defensive shortstop?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Fun with Dodgers fans:
How do the Dodgers let Dunn slip through waivers???
I still just do not get it. Knowing that the Dbacks needed a power hitter, how does Colletti let Dunn get through waivers? You just GOTTA put a claim in as a defensive measure. Even if they let him go, then we have the ML leading home run hitter as a great bat off the bench!
by SeaninSoCal on Aug 12, 2008 8:08 AM MST
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
Full Disclosure...
I am skeptical that “SeaninSoCal” is a true Dodgers fan. Check out his SB Nation profile history. It seems as though all that guy has done is go to different SB Nation pages and pimp the fact that other athletes have their own blogs (i.e. “Derrick Mayes has his own blog!” “David Dellucci has his own blog!” “Hee Sop Choi has his own blog” “Tony Mandrich has his own blog!”). I don’t think “SeaninSoCal” has ever posted anything on True Blue LA before.
Come to think of it, does anyone post anything on True Blue LA besides the same 3 people, over and over again?
:::sigh:::
Good luck the rest of this season, AZ fans! :-)
Paul Lo Duca is MLB's Pablo Escobar..
by DodgerBlueBalls on Aug 12, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, DBB....
we’re all overjoyed to see you, I’m sure. ;-)
Thanks for the good luck wish.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
So, Owings is included in the deal
Normally, I’d be upset we’re letting a young, promising player go for a 7 week rental, but I don’t think we’ll regret seeing Owings go. Looking at him this year, it’s clear he can’t pitch in the majors in the near future.
You can’t live with a 89 mph fastball unless you have some wicked off speed stuff, and he doesn’t. He got a lot of swing and misses by elevating his fastball early in the season, but once hitters got on to that and stopped swinging, he was hit hard, early and often.
I just hope the second guy to be named later is a fringe player, or else this could end up being a bad deal for us.
Not pleased
I’m pretty down on Owings as a starter, but I have to think he has more value as a reliever or even a possible position player than 7 weeks of Dunn and whatever possible compensation picks may or may not come with (and whatever outcome those may or may not have… seeing as how no prospect is can’t miss).
Fire Bob Melvin
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