Dunn in the Sun: Reds slugger comes to Arizona
The Arizona Diamondbacks responded, in spades, to the Dodgers' acquisition of Manny Ramirez, picking up Cincinnati Reds slugger Adam Dunn this morning, in exchange for 2006 third-round draft pick Dallas Buck and two minor-league players to be named. Dunn is due to be paid about $4 million down the stretch, although reports have the Reds sending cash to Arizona, to help offset the cost.
Dunn has hit .233/.373/.528 with 32 homers and 74 RBI this season, figures that are right in line with his career line of .247/.380/.520; he has also hit exactly forty homers each of the past three season. He is also a strikeout machine - so he should fit in very well here. With Dunn, Arizona now has three of the top five strikeout men in the league: Mark Reynolds is second on 147 K's, Chris Young third at 122 and Dunn is fifth having fanned 120 times.
Dunn has played almost all the season at left-field, and the key question got Arizona is, where are we going to put him? The answer - at least for now - appears to be in right-field, replacing Romero as an everyday player [Incidentally, the promotion of outfielder Salazar to replace Hudson now makes a good deal more sense. I hope he enjoyed his at-bat on Saturday.] That's going to be interesting defensively, as Dunn hasn't played there since August 2003, and will also likely only be a temporary solution, since Justin Upton will (hopefully) be back in a couple of weeks.
That will complicate things even further, and while the waiver-wire claim by Arizona, interestingly, was made before we lost Hudson for the season, this adds even more complexity to the possible lineup At that point, there appear to be four main scenarios open:
Dunn to 1B, Tracy to 3B, Reynolds to 2B
Dunn to 1B, Tracy to bench, Ojeda/Burke to 2B
Dunn to LF, CoJack to 1B, Tracy to 3B, Reynolds to 2B
Dunn to LF, CoJack to 1B, Tracy to bench, Ojeda/Burke to 2B
There are some other possibilities, that would leave Dunn in RF:
Upton moving to CF and Young being benched
Upton going to 2B,
Leaving Upton down in Triple-A and saving the service time.
But the first four seem the most likely. I've added a poll for this topic. Almost any of the viable options should also mean an end to playing-time for Tony Clark; however, given that we also should probably never have brought him back to Arizona to begin with, I am not optimistic this is the case.
Looking at what we are losing. The 23-year old Dallas Buck has Tommy John surgery in June last year, but is now back. He has a 1-5 record between South Bend (A-ball) and Visalia (High-A), with an ERA of 3.55 and K:BB ratio of 28:11. There's some suggestion that the other players may be ones who are currently on the 40-man roster - we would need to clear space there, to make room for Dunn, though we could move Hudson to the 60-day DL and open a spot that way. If not, possibilities there include infielders Javier Brito and Josh Whitesell, catcher Wilkin Castillo, and pitchers Emiliano Fruto and Esmerling Vasquez. I'm almost certain it won't be the untouchables like Scherzer or Parker.
Also worth bearing in mind is, that with Dunn almost certain to be a Type-A free agent, we'll get two additional draft picks in compensation. That's assuming we don't resign Dunn. Much though he would provide the left-handed power-hitter we've been looking for, he would likely be too expensive. He earns a total of $13m this year and, at age 28, will be seeking a prime contract [probably $15-20m per year] in free agency. He and Ramirez are among the cream of the crop among the available outfielders this off-season.
There's no doubt that this will prove a boost to Arizona's struggling offense in the last couple of months. Dunn is not such a BA threat as Ramirez, but his power is undeniable, and he should prosper. If the signing of Manny tipped the balance of power towards the coast, this brings things much closer to being balanced, if not actively towards the desert. And particularly nice timing to get him on board in time for a series in Colorado...
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Personally
I like the idea that Dunn goes to right. There he can be the everyday starter, with everything remaining the same with Jackson, Reynolds, and Tracy, as well as having Augie at 2nd. Then when Tracy gets a break, move Dunn to first, and then put Romero in right, which would leave Burke out of playing time in right field, but i assume he will split with Augie at 2nd.
Crap, scratch that…. Forgot about Upton. lol.
by ZonaBacks10 on Aug 11, 2008 4:54 PM EDT 0 recs
Gambo and Ash just pointed out that if Dunn, Lyon, and Hudson leave in the off-season, we’re going to be awash in compensation draft picks.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
by kishi on Aug 11, 2008 4:57 PM EDT 0 recs
Assuming
he’s a type-A or type-B FA, though?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on
Aug 11, 2008 5:05 PM EDT
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Assuming that we offer them all arbitration and they don't accept.
It’s also important to keep in mind that you don’t automatically get the 1st round pick of the signing team if that team has one of the first 15 picks.
Fire Bob Melvin
by nihil67 on
Aug 11, 2008 5:06 PM EDT
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True that. You do risk that a player will go to arb. The club doesn’t offer arb to every FA.
And remember that if the team that picks up our guys also picks up another guy from a different team that also impacts the draft order as well. With the new CBA the comp picks are not as sexy as before. But even before the new CBA then it’s still a crap shoot that those picks ever become impact players at the ML level.
How many of Sir Billy Beans famous Moneyball picks ever made a big impact at the ML level? And those were better draft spots then are now available under the new CBA.
I feel that many people over value the comp picks.
by foulpole on
Aug 11, 2008 8:08 PM EDT
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“How many of Sir Billy Beans famous Moneyball picks ever made a big impact at the ML level?”
Depends on how you feel about Nick Swisher, Joe Blanton, and Mark Teahan. Some would say getting all of them from a single draft, let alone one round, is a pretty decent haul.
by DBacksArb on
Aug 12, 2008 1:33 PM EDT
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Um.... why would we option down Upton?
We wouldn’t actually SAVE any service time, would we? Since he’s already played enough this year? I’m not understanding the rules here.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 11, 2008 5:00 PM EDT 0 recs
We would need to send him down again in the future to get enough time to make a year. His brother was sent down three times before he stuck for good in the majors.
by DBacksArb on
Aug 12, 2008 1:34 PM EDT
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If we could somehow...
Get Upton or Reynolds to play second base, if that really is possible, that would be our best possible lineup offensively, having all Jackson, Tracy, Dunn, Reynolds and Upton in… lol, imagine having the Dunn, Reynolds, and Upton batting all after each other.. i wonder how many consecutive strikeouts they would have…. and Chris Young. lol.
Just kidding, i’ll be positive. I really do like this trade. Though the reds seemed to screw up in my opinion when they were offered Tracy at the trade deadline….
by ZonaBacks10 on Aug 11, 2008 5:04 PM EDT 0 recs
If the signing of Manny tipped the balance of power towards the coast, this brings things much closer to being balanced, if not actively towards the desert. And particularly nice timing to get him on board in time for a series in Colorado…
I don’t think this “tipped the balance of power towards the desert”. I think it WOULD have, but only before O-Dawg got injured.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 11, 2008 5:04 PM EDT 0 recs
I think
That Dunn >>>> Romero, while Hudson >> Ojeda. Our lineup is significantly better than it was on Friday, put it that way.
by Jim McLennan on
Aug 11, 2008 5:16 PM EDT
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True
“players to be named later”
When is later? I think thats the thing I’m most confused on. Why does a team trade a top player when they don’t know what they are getting in return?
by ZonaBacks10 on
Aug 11, 2008 5:18 PM EDT
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They have to be named within six months
Sometimes it will be a player who signed less than a year ago, since players with less service time cannot be traded (i.e., Jarrod Parker didn’t sign until last Aug. 15, so he couldn’t be named as a trade piece until a year later). And yes, that’s just wishful thinking on my part about Parker.
But the point is presumably both sides know who’s going to be traded. There’s just reasons why the players might be named later.
by Brendanukkah on
Aug 11, 2008 5:26 PM EDT
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It’s very rare that a PTBNL turns out to be an impact player or high level “prospect.”
by foulpole on
Aug 11, 2008 8:21 PM EDT
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But
it would be necessary this time, if it IS Parker, since Parker only signed just before the deadline last year—August 15th.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on
Aug 11, 2008 8:27 PM EDT
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I'm not sure that it's "significantly" better.
Going by your scientific “carrot” theory, the net gain is only two carrots—or the difference between O-Dawg starting rather than Augie.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on
Aug 11, 2008 6:23 PM EDT
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Over on DBBP
rgndvo ran a series of sims, before and after the loss of Hudson, and before and after the trade for Dunn. Here are the figures he came up with:
Lineup 1 – Pre-Dunn, Hudson at 2B
West – Avg wins, % win the division, % win the wc
ARI: 84.4, 69.5, 0.1
Lineup 2 – Pre-dunn, Augie starting at 2B
West – Avg wins, % win the division, % win the wc
ARI: 83.9, 63.9, 0.1
Lineup 3 – Dunn in LF, Conor at 1B, Tracy at 3B, Reynolds at 2B
ARI: 85.3, 75.7, 0.4
Based on this, the loss of Hudson cost us about half a win, but the gain of Dunn is good for 1.4 wins.
by Jim McLennan on
Aug 11, 2008 6:40 PM EDT
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No, I mean, I allowed that we're much better with Dunn than without.
But this would have been a much stronger move had part of it not been negated by O-Dawg’s injury.
Which isn’t exactly rocket science.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on
Aug 11, 2008 6:44 PM EDT
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Love him
The Pete Rose worshippers that comprise a vocal majority of the Reds’ fanbase never properly appreciated his talents. He’s not perfect, but I hope he shines with good players around him and a manager who actually knows how to best use his skill set, i.e. not batting him 4 places behind a guy with an OBP of less than .200
I will miss him very much; I will be rooting for the D’backs for the remainder of the season.
Caveat: RF might be a bit brutal. Let’s say he won’t be gunning down anyone going to third.
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on Aug 11, 2008 5:19 PM EDT 0 recs
No offense,
but given their off field personas, I’d probably take Dunn over Rose anyday.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on
Aug 11, 2008 5:31 PM EDT
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no offense
I don’t think anyone can watch even highlights of Rose and not be excited by his play. But his iconic status as a “hustler” has made a fair percentage of the fan base lose their collective minds. A big, lumbering easy-going player like Dunn never had much of a chance with them.
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on
Aug 11, 2008 7:01 PM EDT
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Some portions of the Diamondbacks fanbase is more than a bit burnt out on the idea of hustle, so Dunn may be just what we need…
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
by kishi on
Aug 11, 2008 7:02 PM EDT
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The Anti-Byrnes!!
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on
Aug 11, 2008 7:02 PM EDT
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This is very true
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
by Scrbl on
Aug 11, 2008 7:06 PM EDT
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Eric Byrnes and his "zaniness" worn thin already?
It wouldn’t matter if Byrnes hit below his weight and was injured half the season for diving into the wall going after a 500 foot gopher ball, as long as he ran out to his position, hustled to first base on walks, and “put the ball in play” he’d have a good shot at fan favorite.
see Freel, Ryan
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on
Aug 11, 2008 7:06 PM EDT
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What if
“putting the ball in play” meant “popping up to the infield everytime”?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on
Aug 11, 2008 7:09 PM EDT
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see Patterson, Corey
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on
Aug 11, 2008 7:09 PM EDT
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Yeah,
that’s all Dusty though, isn’t it?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on
Aug 11, 2008 7:10 PM EDT
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I guess
“he’s fast, an elite defender, and can steal you a base ‘r two”
Note: one of these things is true, one of these is false, and one of these things is rendered irrelevant by a historically bad OBP.
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on
Aug 11, 2008 7:13 PM EDT
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Byrnes is exciting
but when his kind of over-the-top enthusiasm spread to the other players, we ended up with a lot of errors. Our youngsters could use a little more calm.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
by Scrbl on
Aug 11, 2008 7:09 PM EDT
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I disagree.
His over-the-top enthusiasm has been out of the lineup for awhile, and we STILL get lots of errors. If anything, we NEED more energy in the clubhouse/dugout.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on
Aug 11, 2008 7:27 PM EDT
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I wonder
if there’s a way to add energy and retain a little self-control.
Here comes another half-baked theory: with Byrnes as our team leader the youngsters tried to make up for mistakes and deficits by making incredible (or ill-advised) plays. Players traded fundamentals for “hustle” and it led to all kinds of mistakes. We had Justin Upton ignoring the cutoff man and trying for ridiculous outfield assists, Mark Reynolds flinging balls into the stands when he should have held them, and middle infielders turuning fielders’ choice hits into errors because they were thinking about making double plays instead of catching the ball.
Of course, I have only my deep conviction that this is true. If you ask for evidence, I’ll have to hide behind the couch again. But it seems like the crazy mistakes have gone down since Byrnesy went out for the season. So I’m thinking that we don’t need any more of his brand of energy.
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
by Scrbl on
Aug 11, 2008 7:39 PM EDT
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Here's a half-baked theory
give Byrnes so weed to calm him down.
(I keed, kind of)
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
by soco on
Aug 11, 2008 7:40 PM EDT
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Oh that was punny
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
by Scrbl on
Aug 11, 2008 7:41 PM EDT
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Really
I got to that part and it was all I could think.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
by soco on
Aug 11, 2008 7:42 PM EDT
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I give this theory
an “O”, for “Overanalyzed”. ;-)
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on
Aug 11, 2008 8:02 PM EDT
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My mind
it wanders
"We...probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." — Terry Bisson
by Scrbl on
Aug 11, 2008 8:08 PM EDT
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Would Pete Rose
ever dive into first on an obvious groundout?
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on
Aug 11, 2008 7:26 PM EDT
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Of COURSE Rose was a great player.
I’m just saying this when you take their off-the-field lives into account.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on
Aug 11, 2008 7:03 PM EDT
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no, I got it
I was just saying that I’m not offended by criticisms of Rose. I am of the Larkin generation and could care less about Pete.
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on
Aug 11, 2008 7:08 PM EDT
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He's not just a hustler
he’s a hustla.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
by soco on
Aug 11, 2008 7:05 PM EDT
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a player's player?
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on
Aug 11, 2008 7:06 PM EDT
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A playa
if you will.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
by soco on
Aug 11, 2008 7:07 PM EDT
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Represent
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
by kishi on
Aug 11, 2008 7:08 PM EDT
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Is this
a promotional use? Because otherwise, you might be in trouble….
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on
Aug 11, 2008 7:09 PM EDT
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I'm promotin'
straight up hustlin.
Knock off the hippie crap, strap on a helmet, and start shooting. This is baseball, Diamondbacks, I want you to storm that beach like it's Normandy!
by soco on
Aug 11, 2008 7:10 PM EDT
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Press conference
By the D-backs at 2:45. Should answer a few questions, with any luck.
by Jim McLennan on Aug 11, 2008 5:39 PM EDT 0 recs
Almost time!!
I hope they tell us who’s going down, and what the plans are when JUp returns….
by snakecharmer on
Aug 11, 2008 5:42 PM EDT
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Yeah!
C’mon, Jim! What kinda fan site IS this? You’re not going to be streaming it live??
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on
Aug 11, 2008 5:49 PM EDT
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He works near Chase, right? He should be down there right now!
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
by kishi on
Aug 11, 2008 5:50 PM EDT
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Unfortunately
The tin cans and string wouldn’t stretch all the way from Chase to my ‘puter here. :-)
by Jim McLennan on
Aug 11, 2008 5:51 PM EDT
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Wish I knew
Doesn’t seem to be on KTAR or the D-backs site.
by Jim McLennan on
Aug 11, 2008 5:50 PM EDT
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Darn
Yeah just turned on KTAR… talking about love.. gayyy! lol.
finally they are talking about Dunn
by ZonaBacks10 on
Aug 11, 2008 5:51 PM EDT
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Go to diamondbacks.com
And give us a report. :-)
by Jim McLennan on
Aug 11, 2008 5:52 PM EDT
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Great
Meanwhile, Gambo or Ash is telling us how he watched The Notebook this weekend, and cried about it. Great sports commentary, guys.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
by kishi on
Aug 11, 2008 5:46 PM EDT
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By the way,
I like the timing of getting him on an off-day
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on Aug 11, 2008 5:40 PM EDT 0 recs
PRESS CONFERENCE IS LIVE ON DIAMONDBACKS.COM
Right now.
by Jim McLennan on Aug 11, 2008 5:52 PM EDT 0 recs
Danke
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
by kishi on
Aug 11, 2008 5:53 PM EDT
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Just
Go to dbacks.com and then click where it says watch press conference under the main picture.
by ZonaBacks10 on
Aug 11, 2008 8:15 PM EDT
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Melvin’s saying they’ll put Dunn in right field for now. Unsurprising.
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
by kishi on Aug 11, 2008 5:54 PM EDT 0 recs
It doesn’t help much when you can’t hear the questions being asked…
Am I avoiding the subject, or am I doing philosophy?
by kishi on
Aug 11, 2008 5:56 PM EDT
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Apparently
Upton will be the RF, but this allows them to keep him down in Triple-Auntil he’s entirely ready to come back, rather than rushing his return.
by Jim McLennan on Aug 11, 2008 5:56 PM EDT 0 recs
lol
I know I just saw the MLB Homeruns stat, and it ha Dunn in a Dbacks hat..
by ZonaBacks10 on
Aug 11, 2008 6:22 PM EDT
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That was it????
LAME! lol, yeah i couldn’t hear any of the questions, and i got to watch the end where Melvin was talking…
Ah! I don’t know why, but this trade excites me. lol
Did they say they were going to have another conference tomorrow with Dunn? Or did I hear wrong.
by ZonaBacks10 on Aug 11, 2008 6:00 PM EDT 0 recs
Great American Ball Park vs. Chase...
Which field is bigger, anyone know of the top of their head?
by ZonaBacks10 on Aug 11, 2008 6:03 PM EDT 0 recs
Not much difference
Park Factors overall are similar. Not sure what the LH/RH split is.
by Jim McLennan on
Aug 11, 2008 6:04 PM EDT
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Someone (I forget whom) was pointing out
that in the NL West, Dunn’ll have to face mo’ betta pitching, as well as more pitcher-friendly parks.
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on
Aug 11, 2008 6:10 PM EDT
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