Barry Bonds?
Eric Byrnes is back on the DL and, if previous severe hamstring injuries can be any indication, he may be done for a month or longer. While the current plan appears to be putting Conor Jackson in left and Chad Tracy at 1st, I'm concerned about Tracy's ever-falling stats to this point. I know he basically didn't have a spring training, but how long can we wait around for him to maybe figure it out.
So, my question is a simple one. I'm not asking if Barry should be signed. Feel free to give reasons why he should or shouldn't be signed, but for the poll I'm much more interested in what you would do if he was?
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Defense
I know the first knock is going to be defense, so consider this: In 2007, Bonds had a RZR of .831. That’s Carlos Lee, Josh Willingham, Luis Gonzalez country. Below average, though better than Adam Dunn, Raul Ibanez, and Pat Burrell. Conor Jackson is sitting at a .750 so far. (Chris Burke at 1.000… that can’t be right).
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on Jul 2, 2008 9:14 AM EDT 0 recs
It's only because
Burke has played so few games at left giving him less opportunity’s to screw up.
by dbacksfan01 on
Jul 2, 2008 11:20 AM EDT
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CoJack
has a .750 in LF, or overall?
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 12:02 PM EDT
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In LF
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 12:06 PM EDT
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Yes,
but doesn’t EVERYONE have a lower RZR at 1B compared to the OF? It’s partly the nature of the positions….
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 12:25 PM EDT
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Can he still hit the ball?
That’s all I care about right now.
by IndyDBack on Jul 2, 2008 11:41 AM EDT 0 recs
Well
Zips, in October of last year, predicted this line: .256/.456/.518 with 22 HR in 309 AB.
Marcel: .257/.421/.488 with 23 HR in 377 AB
Bill James: .284/.494/.634 with 31 HR in 320 AB
The average line there would be .265/.457/.546… I think that’d be ok.
I’m not sure on any of the 3 systems being park adjusted.
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 12:16 PM EDT
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"Park adjusted" possibly being important words, there.
Barry absolutely CRUSHES the ball at Chase—if he hadn’t played for the Giants, he’d be well beyond 800 by now, and challenging the career record for pro homers.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 12:21 PM EDT
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Who is that guy
That Japanese players that is the pro leader in career homeruns?
by dbacksfan01 on
Jul 2, 2008 12:24 PM EDT
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Sadaharu Oh?
Had to check Wiki to be sure of the spelling of his first name. Sure ‘nuff:
The all-time, verified professional baseball record for home runs is held by Sadaharu Oh, a former player and manager of the Yomiuri Giants and current manager of the Fukuoka Softbank Hawks in Japan’s league which is called Nippon Professional Baseball. Oh holds the all-time home run world record, having hit 868 home runs in his career.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 12:27 PM EDT
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Yup
.321/.511/.699 in 65 career games. A whole lot of that was against Randy Johnson, pre-Yankees, too.
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 12:28 PM EDT
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I am totally, all for bringing him to Arizona
Without a doubt in my mind if Josh Byrnes were to sign him it would make up for some of the other f ups he has been accountable for. I mean this would send me flying in the air if we were to sign the third greatest hitter of all time, AT LEAGUE MINIMUM.
Problem is no GM wants to pull the trigger on this because they are afraid of the media consequences but it comes to a point now where his impact on the field will out weigh his impact off of it.
Anyways from a statistical point of view Bonds is one of the greatest hitters in the game. Even in his 40’s when guys are usually done his EqA is still in the .300’s every year.
2005 40 yrs. old- .339 EqA
2006 41 yrs. old- .329 EqA
2007 42 yrs. old- .345 EqA
Note that EqA has the same exact scale as batting average (.260 is average while anything above .300 is great) and as you can see by this Bonds still had a great year in 07. I think if someone were to sign Bonds I think he would easily post a EqA above .300 and seeing how CoJack is the only regular to have one in the .300’s we could use it badly.
I don’t mind the steroids thing simply because it would be stupid for me to judge and criticize Bonds for doing it when I did not criticize the many on our 01 team or Mark McGwire when he broke the homerun record.
by dbacksfan01 on Jul 2, 2008 11:45 AM EDT 0 recs
I was hesitant
when people first started bringing him up, but when I heard a few days ago that not only was he willing to work for minimum, but give it away too? Come on, this is the easiest decision you could make.
By all means hit at a glacial pace. You know how that thrills me.
by soco on Jul 2, 2008 11:50 AM EDT 0 recs
Not to mention
that we know how much Josh Byrnes likes cheap veterans. Should be a no-brainer.
I’m convinced that another franchise is going to wise up, unfortunately, and grab him.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 12:03 PM EDT
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Yup
I’m convinced that another franchise is going to wise up, unfortunately, and grab him.
That is why we will not end up with him.
by dbacksfan01 on
Jul 2, 2008 12:05 PM EDT
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Although,
since this year is turning out to not look necessarily like the “win now” year that we all expected, that probably makes it less likely for us. Then again, every contender needs a power threat, and Barry IS that—with a vengeance.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 12:24 PM EDT
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Well, I dunno
We’re still in 1st place and nobody else in this division, save the Dodgers, has a legitimate chance. Our pitching staff is there minus a couple miscues, but wasn’t that how it was in 2001? We had 2 big starters, a decent 3, and a bunch of guys that year too. A little offense and maybe we tip the scales enough to not only make the playoffs, but make some noise in a fairly weak NL (outside of the Cubs).
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 12:31 PM EDT
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[ every contender needs a power threat ]
On the Red Sox last year, Manny was the sole hitter with more than 21 HR, and he only had three more than Chris Young.
by Jim McLennan on
Jul 2, 2008 12:40 PM EDT
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Uhm
You mean aside from David Ortiz’ 35 homers?
Also… Mike Lowell hit 21… Ramirez hit 20.
Not to mention Kevin Youkilis and Dustin Pedroia who both had SLG% over .440 and got on base over 38% of the time.
Not a good comparison.
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 12:52 PM EDT
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And this is better than the 2007 D-backs how?
We had Young at 32, Byrnes at 21, and Reynolds – in two-thirds of a season – at 17. We also had Jackson and Hudson slugging over .440 and getting on base 37% and 38% of the time. Seems like a good comparison to me.
by Jim McLennan on
Jul 2, 2008 1:05 PM EDT
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"We got 21 from Byrnes."
Do you see us getting that kind of production from LF from any non-Barry player?
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 1:07 PM EDT
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No way
CoJack is pretty productive in his PA’s don’t get me wrong, but he isn’t as productive as Bonds, that is for sure.
by dbacksfan01 on
Jul 2, 2008 1:17 PM EDT
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That wasn't the question
It was whether he would be as productive as Byrnes. I think he’ll be rather better.
by Jim McLennan on
Jul 2, 2008 1:18 PM EDT
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Possibly.
Except for speed and defense. So you’re in favor of…. rather permanently moving CoJack to LF? Starting Tracy at 1B? I’ve advocated for that, but I don’t know what we do vs. lefties….
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 1:45 PM EDT
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Two words
Jamie. D’Antona.
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 1:53 PM EDT
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I knew
you were lurking, waiting to pimp D’Antona. ;-)
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 1:56 PM EDT
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:)
It’s too bad he didn’t play last night.
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 2:32 PM EDT
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Indeed.
Was hoping he would.
Romero played CF, though. And like I said in the other post, Bonifacio played LF.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 2:34 PM EDT
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Shouldn't be a comparison to 2007.
Should be comparing it to 2008. We didn’t win the WS last year. We’re trying to win it this year.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 1:09 PM EDT
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All the players mentioned
Are still here. I specifically excluded the ones Clark hit off the bench.
by Jim McLennan on
Jul 2, 2008 1:10 PM EDT
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But since you insist
Season pace, based through the first 84 games:
Reynolds: 33 HR
Young: 25 HR
Drew: 21 HR
by Jim McLennan on
Jul 2, 2008 1:20 PM EDT
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Well, CY only hit one
all of June….
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 1:47 PM EDT
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I guess here's my question on this arguement
Who gives a shit about HR totals?
Let’s take a look at a OPS comparison. Red Sox 2007 team OPS – .806.
Diamondbacks 2008 team OPS – .735.
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 2:22 PM EDT
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Even just a question of power
Red Sox 2007 Team Slugging – .444
Diamondbacks 2008 Team Slugging – .412
Closer, but still lacking.
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 2:23 PM EDT
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Granted,
that’s with a Big Papi as DH, but still….
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 2:35 PM EDT
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Good point
It’s tough to compare AL to NL.
How about this then… the 2006 Mets had a team OPS of .780… team SLG of .445. Cardinals the same year had an OPS of .769 and a SLG of .431.
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 3:54 PM EDT
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And...
The 2006 NL West champion Padres had a team OPS of .748 and an SLG of .416
by Jim McLennan on
Jul 2, 2008 3:58 PM EDT
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It's a pitching-heavy division.
Not to mention the fact that those Padres didn’t do anything in the postseason AND played in PetCo… and STILL performed better offensively than the 2008 Dbacks.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 4:01 PM EDT
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Still higher than our current team
And they got outscored 14-6 in 4 games against the Cardinals to get bounced out of the 1st round.
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 4:02 PM EDT
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Most obvious case: the 2007 Diamondbacks
.250/.321/.413 for an OPS of .734. Best record in the National League, I need hardly remind you, with a worse OPS.
by Jim McLennan on
Jul 2, 2008 4:15 PM EDT
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And do you really think
that we’re going to be able to replicate that feat? I thought our goal was in trying to improve on last year, especially since we’re unlikely to outperform our pythag by as much again. Notably, our pinch hitters aren’t nearly as “clutch” as they were last year.
Oh, yeah. And we’re sitting at .500 right here near the All Star Break. Certainly no home field advantage throughout the playoffs, that’s for sure.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 4:45 PM EDT
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Just to remind you
This tangent spun off based on your claim that “every contender needs a power threat.” I think the examples proves otherwise. While it’s nice to have a power threat, you don’t need one.
And not having Home Field advantage was such a problem for Colorado last year… :-(
by Jim McLennan on
Jul 2, 2008 5:05 PM EDT
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Well, maybe it was an overgeneralization,
but it certainly marks the rule, rather than the exception. Even last year, we at least had Tony Clark, who was pretty much a threat to go deep at any moment.
And I think we need only look at our team’s performance on the road this year to show how important home field can be….
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 5:16 PM EDT
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When we won the WS,
we got 57 homers from Gonzo batting everyday in the 3rd or 4th spot.
Stick with what works.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 12:59 PM EDT
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The power wouldn't be the only advantage Bonds would bring
he would also be on the bases all the time for fear of that power. Sure he wouldn’t be stealing bases, but having someone board in front of CoJack or Reynolds would be nothing but a good thing.
By all means hit at a glacial pace. You know how that thrills me.
by soco on
Jul 2, 2008 1:09 PM EDT
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Except
that Melvin would probably bat him 10th or something.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 1:42 PM EDT
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+1 Soco
Offensively, Bonds delivers exactly what the Diamondbacks need. We’re talking about a guy with the highest OBP since Ted Williams. Christ, he gets on base more than Ty Cobb!
by Diamondhacks on
Jul 2, 2008 3:04 PM EDT
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And actually,
I would say that Cobb was MUCH more of an A-hole.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 3:33 PM EDT
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Hard to deny that
By all means hit at a glacial pace. You know how that thrills me.
by soco on
Jul 2, 2008 3:37 PM EDT
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No
Or, to be more accurate:
No. [MP3, not safe for work]
On a whole number of levels. Too many issues.
1) What condition is Bonds in to hit? He hasn’t seen a pitch in nine months, as far as I know.
2) The ongoing legal proceedings. At best, they’ll be a distraction. At worst, he’ll be behind bars.
3) His knees have caused him to miss a total of 216 games over the past three seasons.
4) What impact would Bonds, his barcalounger, flat-screen TV and entourage have in the locker room – and the other players? Every report I’ve seen is that he was utter poison for the Giants.
And then there’s the whole moral question of signing a tax-evading, abusive, lying, steroid-abusing cheat. Oh, alright: “allegedly.”
I think Ben’s poll options above are more than slightly skewed towards his personal biases. I wouldn’t “boycott” the D-backs. But it would certainly and significantly reduce my level of interest in and support for, the team. After a decade of hating Bonds – not just because he’s a Giant, but because I think he is pond-scum – it would basically be impossible to cheer for him.
Frankly, there are more important things than reaching the playoffs this season. If that requires us to hire Bonds, I’d rather not go there.
by Jim McLennan on Jul 2, 2008 1:33 PM EDT 1 recs
Au contreau
I counter your mp3 with :48 second mark here. I don’t know about the rest of y’all, but I want to see a Chevy with butterfly doors.
By all means hit at a glacial pace. You know how that thrills me.
by soco on
Jul 2, 2008 1:35 PM EDT
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I wouldn't have been in favor of it AT ALL....
until our recent offensive disaster. This year might be our last chance to win for a little while, as we’re almost certainly losing O-Dawg.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 1:50 PM EDT
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Soild points
Can’t argue too much with any of them.
I suppose I meant for the first option to lean more towards “I wouldn’t be happy,” but you’re right that an option is missing.
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 1:52 PM EDT
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Geez nihil
way to go on this Bonds thing. And here I thought I was stirring the pot with my $4 gas query :-)
by Diamondhacks on
Jul 2, 2008 3:20 PM EDT
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I was gonna say that too.
Nice job creating discussion. Mid-day, too.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 3:39 PM EDT
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I claim insanity
Mostly related to me still being upset about last night’s game and reading the after-comments from Randy before I left for work.
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 3:58 PM EDT
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What did Randy say?
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 4:06 PM EDT
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Cop-outs
"It’s been a month’s worth of poor games," Johnson said. "Obviously, I’m very much aware of that. I’m a little disappointed, obviously. That goes without saying. You just try to regroup and you look forward to your next start."
"Velocity is a luxury," Johnson said. "I don’t have the same velocity. But location is a necessity in pitching, and I haven’t had any of that."
and then Melvin, "That was a really good comeback effort by us," he said. "Came up a little bit short, but not due to the lack of good at-bats."
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 4:09 PM EDT
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On the legal preoceedings
Trial isn’t set to begin until March 2nd of next year. I don’t think I’ve seen anything to indicate anything could happen sooner.
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 2:06 PM EDT
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That's another reason
why I would support this move.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 2:19 PM EDT
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On the clubhouse
You could look at this a couple ways. It would be up to Melvin to keep order, that’s for sure. You could also look at it from the angle that winning could hold back some of the poison. There’s also the fact that he’d be a 3 month-ish rental and wouldn’t be putting any sort of stake in the ground.
Who knows what the clubhouse is like right now anyway.
Fire Bob Melvin. Free Jamie D'Antona. Eric Byrnes Sucks.
by nihil67 on
Jul 2, 2008 2:09 PM EDT
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You know,
they always talk about clubhouse presences—but look at Kenny Lofton? WS with the Giants, (same thing with Barry) Indians and Braves in the 90s, Cubs in 2003, Yankees in ‘04, etc. Doesn’t seem to have stopped those teams.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 2:29 PM EDT
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I wonder what kind of shape he's in
Let’s see… he’d give us instant offense, we wouldn’t have to give up anything for him, he wouldn’t cost us anything, we could probably unload him at the end of the season or sooner if he didn’t work out, he would free up some other names as trade possibilities.
The problem is, what if it works? Would we want him to be the hero who delivers us? Could we stand up on our chair and cheer for this guy? Headline: Bonds’ Blast in 10th Lifts D’backs to game 6. Look at the character of our championship team: those are names you look back on with pride, guys you could pull for. I agree with Jim – I won’t disown the club, but it will definitely take some of the joy out of it. Maybe it isn’t win at any price. There’s a reason he’s roaming free on the market. In the end, you get what you pay for.
by aricat on Jul 2, 2008 1:45 PM EDT 1 recs
Look at the character of the World Series team
okay, here’s some guys from that team:
Matt Williams
Randy Johnson, not exactly a friendly guy especially towards the media.
Luis Gonzalez, a lot of people look at his 2001 powerfest with suspicion.
Of course, Bonds seemlessly blends these qualities together to make him easier to dislike, but the 2001 team wasn’t a bunch of saints either.
By all means hit at a glacial pace. You know how that thrills me.
by soco on Jul 2, 2008 1:51 PM EDT 0 recs
I have a hard time equating Luis Gonzalez with Barry Bonds
in the character department. But maybe that’s just me. There’s also a difference between Johnson’s aloofness and Bonds’ apparent contempt for the human race…imo
by aricat on
Jul 2, 2008 1:56 PM EDT
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No definitely not
my point was more that the two things people seem to use as reasons to dislike the man (beyond ‘Skins, he gets to use the Scum Devil card) are because he used steroids and generally acts like an ass to the media. Well, sure we’ve never had a guy who was all of that rolled into one, but the Diamondbacks were certainly not free of either of those two qualities.
By all means hit at a glacial pace. You know how that thrills me.
by soco on
Jul 2, 2008 1:59 PM EDT
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Hey.
Anyone who beats up Jeff Kent can’t be ALL bad.
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 2:18 PM EDT
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Legitimate concern
in terms of an entitled attitude influencing younger players, but at this stage – right now- I dont think Barry presents a grave or singular danger in that regard. How much leverage does a guy have who’s willing to play for nothing? Cant we just let him go if things dont work out?
We’ve seen Randy’s clubhouse comportment “improve” as his career winds down. Why not Barry? He’s been through a helluva lot lately and is reasonably smart – it would seem to be in his interests, on several levels, to be on good behavior here (or anywhere he’s picked up).
If I were Moorad and Kendrick, my concern would be more at the box office than on the field or in the clubhouse. Will people come to see Bonds, or will folks burn season tickets, boycott, etc? Or both?
Personally, I’d love to see Bonds on board, while acknowledging it could get…uh…spirited in the stands and presents some economic risk.
by Diamondhacks on
Jul 2, 2008 2:51 PM EDT
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Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
If I were Moorad and Kendrick, my concern would be more at the box office than on the field or in the clubhouse. Will people come to see Bonds, or will folks burn season tickets, boycott, etc? Or both?
The franchise that bypassed Josh Byrnes to resign Eric Byrnes is unlikely to make that move…
Mark Reynolds: Turning me gay since '07
by DbacksSkins on
Jul 2, 2008 3:13 PM EDT
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It would take guts
to sign him and I dont think it’ll happen, primarily because I doubt the clubs are even genuinely free to acquire him. In any case, Bonds’ involuntary hibernation serves to underscore how major league baseball is more about money than winning.
by Diamondhacks on
Jul 2, 2008 3:29 PM EDT
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