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Around SBN: Ole Miss-Alabama: "Let's Go Eat.Wait. What Happened?"

Melvin expects defense to improve

Geez, let's hope so. We sure have had more than our share of defensive miscues so far this year. And many of ours have been very damaging. I wouldn't be surprised if we lead the league in unearned runs. From the article

Only four teams in the National League have a higher error total than the D-backs' 37.

The D-backs have tried a number of things to improve the defense, including having coaches bring different positions onto the field for work before batting practice, going so far as having a coach flip a pitch to the one hitting rather than just hitting fungoes.

I'm always a supporter of practice but it sure looks like we could use more.

 

Also an interesting subject regarding the fan base...

 

According to Nielsen Media Research, from March 31 - May 22, FSN Arizona was the top-rated television network in Phoenix on the nights it televised a D-backs game, outdistancing all four broadcast stations in the market (7 - 11 p.m., Monday - Sunday). An average of 90,310 households in the Valley were watching FSN Arizona on nights it has a D-backs game during primetime hours. ...

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More like the E-Backs, am I right?

The boys in Sedona Red slugged it out with a pretty pesky poltergeist, then stayed on to dance the night away with some of the lovely ladies who witnessed the disturbance.

by soco on Jun 4, 2008 12:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good one.

by foulpole on Jun 4, 2008 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does anyone care to revisit this topic and list your defensive rankings?

Rate our defense

by foulpole on Jun 4, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why bother?

Since you will only discuss your opinions with people that agree with your conclusions.

by dahlian on Jun 4, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem with our D

is that it isn’t exactly bad in the abstract – just extremely un-”clutch”.

While we we’re 22nd in the majors in fielding percentage, the team is 8th in defensive efficiency. The latter stat is a much better harbinger of things to come, but the errors and unearned runs do tell us something – specifically, that this team is making a relatively large portion of its mistakes in key situations.

Statistically, you wouldn’t expect this trend to continue (like a good hitter not performing well with RISP), but dear god, it’s painful to watch while it’s happening. From a fan psyche perspective, I’m not sure what’s worse: a sure-handed defense with lesser range, or an error-prone team with range out the wazoo. The latter team has the potential to become a top-flight defensive unit, but I don’t know how much of that is empty hope.

by dahlian on Jun 4, 2008 3:29 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

% miscues for J-Up in the first 4 innings of today’s game against the Brewers.

1) A bobble on the pitchers double. If the pitcher isn’t running like a bush leaguer, he’s at third.
2) same play as above when he uncorks a wild throw into shallow lf. once again, if the pitcher at 2nd is paying attention, he ends up at 3rd.
3) A very poor throw up the third base line that if Synder doesn’t track down could have been in the dugout giving all the Brewers’ base runners two extra bases.
4) another bobble that turns a single into a double. He did get an E on this play.
5) A very bad desision to try to make a play on that “inside the park homerun.”

5 miscues and only 1 E.

by foulpole on Jun 4, 2008 4:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

2 bobbles, 2 very poor throws and a major brain fart on the 4 bagger.

by foulpole on Jun 4, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you gotta be

in seven heaven watching the kids struggle right now.

I hope you notice that O-dawg hasn’t been as sharp either.

Promoting upset stomach, indigestion, diarrhea, heartburn and nausea: Your 2008 Arizona Diamondbacks!

by unnamedDBacksfan on Jun 4, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True.

The way he’s been taking over on any popup in the infield, I’m convinced of three things:
1) He has little to no faith in the rest of the infielders right now,
2) Eventually he’s going to sprint over toward third and start taking Reynolds’/Tracy’s putouts as well, and
3) One of these days he’s going to drop one of these balls he keeps calling off everyone else on.

by Azreous on Jun 4, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

During.... was it last night's game? When he threw to home plate and hit the runner?

Anyway, for some reason, when he made that throw, he had taken over cutoff man duties in short LF, over by 3B.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 4, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you gotta be
in seven heaven watching the kids struggle right now.

I have no idea why you would say that??? I want to see the squad win games. It does not make me the least bit happy to see such bush league D.

by foulpole on Jun 4, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because

in your mind, it confirms what you already believe, in a way that the stats largely don’t agree with.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 4, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ODawg

Up to 70% of his error total for all last season already.

by Jim McLennan on Jun 4, 2008 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair and balanced,

you should also note the spectacular play he made to turn hard-hit double into an inning-ending double play.

But it was worrisome how the entire team seemed to space out about halfway through the game. I think it’s time for the $30 million man to earn his paycheck and whip the kids into shape.

The fact that I would ever have to write a sentence like that makes part of my soul die. I can’t believe it’s come to this.

by dahlian on Jun 4, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ever think

we might miss Eric Byrnes’ “leadership”?

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 4, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm being mostly facetious

He actually traveled with the team, so it’s not like there’s anything to stop him from delivering pearls of wisdom.

The only problem is that most “team leaders” have actually accomplished something in their career, or at the very least made an all-star team. Most team leaders don’t have a list of most notable accomplishments that are topped of by “almost singlehandedly choked away a playoff series win by throwing a hissyfit instead of touching home plate.”

At least Tony Clark had years of experience and success to impart on the young players. I’m not sure what advice EB22 can give the kids other than tips on when to dive into first base, how to master the flip throw technique, what it’s like to have your own t.v. show and how best to execute “The Flying None” so that you’ll get as much t.v. time as possible.

by dahlian on Jun 4, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Normally, I'd agree,

but NOTHING is working right now… and Byrnes is very popular in the locker room.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 4, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, he's in Milwaukee

he was in the locker room.

Brandon Medders was also very popular in the locker room.

by dahlian on Jun 4, 2008 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

being popular

doesn’t necessarily translate into being a team leader though.

Tony Clark- there was a team leader. The team seems to be missing him more than they ever would EB22.
someone needs to call out a few of these players when they make such mental errors. I don’t see that happening. Bomel isn’t that type of person, but what about Gibson? He should be the first one at the steps of the dugout to “greet” the player. we don’t need a public display, but just tell them to pull their head out of the effin ass and get in the game.

Promoting upset stomach, indigestion, diarrhea, heartburn and nausea: Your 2008 Arizona Diamondbacks!

by unnamedDBacksfan on Jun 4, 2008 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Once again,

errors are one of the worst possible ways to measure defensive aptitude. Thank you for again showing why.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 4, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

42 errors

and

36 unearned runs.

just plain unacceptable.

Promoting upset stomach, indigestion, diarrhea, heartburn and nausea: Your 2008 Arizona Diamondbacks!

by unnamedDBacksfan on Jun 4, 2008 5:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Do you have a link?

It is pretty sad and not only overworks our entire pitching staff but is costing us wins. It’s tough to win close games when your D is regularly giving the other team extra outs/bases/runs. And a lot of the miscues don’t even show up as an E. Not only that but we are rarely stealing outs/bases/hits/runs with great play on the defensive side of the ball.

by foulpole on Jun 4, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

FSNAZ??

It was one of the graphs on the post game wrap up

Promoting upset stomach, indigestion, diarrhea, heartburn and nausea: Your 2008 Arizona Diamondbacks!

by unnamedDBacksfan on Jun 4, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You talk about overworking the pitching staff,

but with a defensive efficiency rating that’s tenth in the majors we’re definitely doing something to save the pitcher’s arms. And you must be completely blind to the play of Chris Young and Upton if you’re going to say that “we are rarely stealing outs/bases/hits/runs with great play on the defensive side of the ball.” There was one such great play in tonight’s game that you didn’t even acknowledge.

The problem with errors is that it treats a missed cutoff throw the same as a botched grounder that lets a runner reach, even though the latter is clearly more damaging to the team.

Don’t get me wrong, mistakes are bad and they are frustrating, but they’re only one errors are but one small facet of over all defensive value.

by dahlian on Jun 4, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beaten to it

“And a lot of the miscues don’t even show up as an E.”

Dahlian beat me to it. We’re actually converting balls into outs better than the average team, so there appears to be no evidence for this claim. I sense selective memory is at work here; we don’t remember the difficult plays that were made. Foulpole’s description of J-Up’s afternoon above proves how flawed that is.

by Jim McLennan on Jun 4, 2008 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We’re actually converting balls into outs better than the average team, so there appears to be no evidence for this claim.

Are you using pitching matrix’s to come up with that? Do you think that our rotation/bullpen is much better than league ave? If so, don’t you feel that our pitching staff would make those “numbers” look good? What are the strenghts and weaknesses of the “numbers” that you are using?

Foulpole’s description of J-Up’s afternoon above proves how flawed that is
.

Did you watch the game?

by foulpole on Jun 4, 2008 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Defensive Efficiency

[ Are you using pitching matrix’s to come up with that? ]

No, simple Defensive Efficiency. the rate at which balls in play are put into outs. This excludes strikeouts, home runs and walks. It’s much more objective than the observations of a prejudiced eye such as yours. Our rotation is better than league average: while part of that is the strikeouts [2nd most in the NL], the defense also plays its part. Obviously, I’d rather we made less errors, but all the objective evidence – not reliant on the whim of the official scorer – suggests that our defense is really far from the biggest problem right now.

[ Did you watch the game?]

Did you? If so, how did you miss the magnificent play Upton made to double the runner off second? Your omission of that simply goes to show how your approach is to ignore all the evidence that doesn’t fit your preconceived ideas. And that’s why many people here treat your views with such disdain.

by Jim McLennan on Jun 4, 2008 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s much more objective than the observations of a prejudiced eye such as yours.
simply goes to show how your approach is to ignore all the evidence that doesn’t fit your preconceived ideas

I don’t feel that a personal attack is warranted here.

how did you miss the magnificent play Upton made to double the runner off second?

I did watch the game and I did see that play. It was a nice catch but hardly a “magnificent play.” The double play was an extremly routine throw to second after Kapler ( I belive it was) was already rounding third by the time the catch was made. He never even tried to return to second to avoid getting doubled off. If I had to guess I would say that he had a major brain fart and thought that there were already two outs in the inning.

by foulpole on Jun 4, 2008 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was a nice catch but hardly a "magnificent play."

Silly Jim, don’t you know that Upton never MAKES “magnificent plays”? Only Byrnes and Hudson.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 4, 2008 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What are the calculations used to determine “Defensive Efficiency?”

If “Defensive Efficiency” shows that we are converting balls into outs “better than the average team” then how do you explain that we are currently at the bottom of the scale at errors, fielding percent and unearned runs? It’s not possible that the type of pitchers we have can contribute to this? Is it possible that the severity of errors being made are worse than “the average team?”

by foulpole on Jun 4, 2008 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you weren't deadset on ignoring dahlian, (and me)

you would have noticed this post:

The problem with our D

is that it isn’t exactly bad in the abstract – just extremely un-"clutch".

While we we’re 22nd in the majors in fielding percentage, the team is 8th in defensive efficiency. The latter stat is a much better harbinger of things to come, but the errors and unearned runs do tell us something – specifically, that this team is making a relatively large portion of its mistakes in key situations.

Statistically, you wouldn’t expect this trend to continue (like a good hitter not performing well with RISP), but dear god, it’s painful to watch while it’s happening. From a fan psyche perspective, I’m not sure what’s worse: a sure-handed defense with lesser range, or an error-prone team with range out the wazoo. The latter team has the potential to become a top-flight defensive unit, but I don’t know how much of that is empty hope.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 4, 2008 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Moving on to the subjective

According to the Hardball Times: “The percent of times a batted ball is turned into an out by the teams’ fielders, not including home runs. The exact formula we use is (BFP-H-K-BB-HBP-Errors)/(BFP-HR-K-BB-HBP). This is similar to BABIP, but from the defensive team’s perspective. Please note that errors include only errors on batted balls.”

I’ve got nothing more than gut feeling to go on, but I think our errors tend to be no-doubters, often on routine plays. Those probably stand out more. If there were such a thing as ‘negative errors’ – plays which fielders are not expected to make, but which are turned into outs – I think you’d find we do pretty well on those as well. The net result is that we make about the same percentage of plays as usual, but the distribution is different: we make fewer of the easy ones, but more of the hard ones.

Though as mentioned, this is just a feeling.

by Jim McLennan on Jun 4, 2008 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those would be Out of Zone plays

Team numbers for RZR-league rank, OOZ-Rank

Jup .840-21st (out of 22), 25-6th (This confirms the neutral non-Foulpole point of view. Upton has botched his fair share of routine plays, but so far is dragging himself up to average by sheer athleticism)

CBY .941-5th, 32-5th (Young is rapidly becoming a legitimate Gold Glove contender. The only player that is clearly ahead of him by the numbers is Beltran)

Byrnes .952-1st, 11-21st (His surehandedness has stayed, but the hamstrings have clearly sapped his ability to make plays. The time off better bring his defense back rejuvenated, because even if he hits up to his career numbers, he still needs to be one of the best defensive left fielders in the game to be an asset.)

CJ .624-24th, 11-16th (The last couple weeks have been rough on Conor as he’s one from middle of the pack to now solid 2.5. But as long as he continues to be one of, if not the best offensive players on the team, he should be in the lineup)

O-dog .824-12th, 11-10th (He may win another Gold Glove, but he probably won’t deserve)

Reynolds .670-17th, 16-15th (all the vitriol that Foul heaps upon Upton would be better served being sent Reynolds’ way. Thank god for Chad Tracy)

Drew 18-11th, .813-17th (Middling – the kid needs to hit to be productive)

by dahlian on Jun 4, 2008 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting

how Byrnes’ athleticism and speed, and the fact that LF is not usually a defensively strong position, has allowed him to be 1st in the league among LF in RZR.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 5, 2008 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's always been a given for Byrnes.

His defense, when healthy, is pretty much the only thing that makes him an above-average left fielder. As a center fielder he’s adequate, but in the corner that makes him a plus defender.

It’s really not so much a complement of his defensive ability, as it is a mark against the rest of the left fielders. But the one thing he has going for him is that his type of defense translates well to left. If you put Byrnes and J-up both in left field, Byrnes would be the better defender. If you put them in right field, J-up would have a leg up on Byrnes. And if they were in center it might just even out, but it definitely would be a treat to see Upton get on his horse and go all out on for twice as many balls.

by dahlian on Jun 5, 2008 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you have a link?

And, if you did see the J-Up double play, do you feel that it was “magnificent?” and if so, what made it “magnificent?” And how is my “description of J-Up’s afternoon … flawed..?” I’m truly interested in how you came to those opinions.

by foulpole on Jun 5, 2008 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course,

the double play was a cake walk – no one thought that ball was going to be caught. Had Upton not gotten there and made the jumping catch, it would have bounced off the wall.

Granted it’s nowhere close to the best Upton play so far this year. In my book that goes to the play when he was shaded to right center and Ordonez hit a grounder down the first base line that Upton managed to corral about 30 feet shy of the outfield wall and nail Ordonez with a perfect throw to get him out at second.

That play still blows me away.

by dahlian on Jun 5, 2008 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More info

Definition of Defensive Efficiency comes from here. dahlian linked to the actual figures for this year in a previous post. but here you go again.

I have now caught up with the Upton play, thanks to the archive on mlb.com [as discussed in Sunday’s report, entire games are now available]. Upton had a great read on the ball and did a fine job of covering the necessary ground. Kapler certainly didn’t think it was going to be caught, did he?

Your description of Upton’s afternoon is irreparably flawed because it omits that play, which probably saved a couple of runs. Instead you come up with a number of plays that “might” have cost extra bases, but didn’t, and largely rely on “ifs” and “buts” for your criticism. It simply demonstrates, yet again, how your prejudices blinker you.

by Jim McLennan on Jun 5, 2008 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More specifically,

foulpole only includes notable negatives of Upton’s fielding performance, while completely ignoring any and all positives—notable or not.

By the way, Jim, are you aware as to how long the MLB.tv games will be archived? As in, a week? A month? A season?

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 5, 2008 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know what the most amusing part

of this “are errors a good measure of defensive ability” stupidity debate?

Conor Jackson is tied for second best among all Arizona (non-catching) regulars with a .993 fielding percentage. If Foulpole ever actually read this comment, I’m sure his head would explode.

Also, Jim – have you ever come into any conclusions on the Snakepit “Ground Rules”. I would like to give another nod to “controversial opinions are good, but be willing to defend your assertions when others make a reasonable attempt at constructive debate.” These threads are growing tiresome.

by dahlian on Jun 5, 2008 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I should clarify

as to why I exclude catchers.

As imperfect as FP is, it’s even worse in regards to catchers. The most important part of a catcher’s defensive job, catching the ball, is excluded. So a catcher can only get an error from fielding a ball in play -a relatively small sample size. But the problem is even worse, since FP is calculated from putouts and assists, but when scoring, every strikeout counts as a putout by the catcher. Unless you have actual play by play data, the numbers are all but useless. (for more information on this delightful conundrum as it relates to catcher fielding evaluation, check out Bill James’ Win Shares book or The New Bill James Historical Abstract, which let’s be honest, every baseball fan should have already.

Also, I disagree with the fact that Chris Snyder has yet to be charged with an error this season. If that Chad Qualls passed ball and subsequent throw at the runner’s back isn’t an error, then I don’t know what is.

by dahlian on Jun 5, 2008 3:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

“When the debate would become boring is if only a few select individuals become the de-facto representatives for the SnakePit – and then look to exclude others if there opinion isn’t deemed "reasonable" according to their view of the argument.”

Isn’t that what would happen if we just ignored these posts? As I said, Differing opinions are great – they’re the point of the internet, but (not to step on any toes here), I think that if you’re going to continually use Jim’s site to publicize those views, you should at least be willing to have a constructive debate about them with people of differing opinions.

I make these posts because I know that they can serve as a jumping off point for other discussions: they may find value in the analysis or make constructive comments about my beliefs, my biases and show potential flaws in my logic. But just think about how much more productive the conversation would be if Foupole didn’t ignore every single one of my posts.

by dahlian on Jun 5, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As dahlian said,

you’re really barking up the wrong tree here. Nobody is trying to prevent anyone from commenting. We’re just frustrated that some posters ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to acknowledge anyone, any evidence, any stat, ANYTHING that disagrees with them. Then they don’t understand why some of the posters they don’t explicitly ignore are starting to get annoyed by them and their implicit ignorance of their points. Worst of all is the fact that dahlian (as a “serious” and statistics-based baseball thinker, I’m much more of a lightweight than some of the posters here, so I’m leaving my name out of it) repeatedly makes an effort to respond to some peoples’ questions and statements, but his responses always fall on intentionally deaf ears.

I’m all for everyone expressing their opinion. The problem is that some posters don’t care about listening. They don’t care about intellectual diversity, because the only intellect they’re interested in is their own.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 5, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

dahlian linked to the actual figures for this year in a previous post. but here you go again.

Some of the reasons that I come to this board include chatting with other D-back fans, enjoying the game with other fans, sharing ideas, thoughts and information, and to have civil discussions regarding the D-backs and baseball in general. I do not enjoy personal attacks, sophomoric snark, attacking other posters because others think it’s funny or cute, piling on others, starting flame wars, using provocative language, and wild allegations regarding other people’s mind set. Therefore, there are more then a couple of posters that I prefer to ignore and I just skip over their posts.

Thanks for the links. When I get some time, I’ll check them out.

BTW, I’m not trying to be an ass here but I am somewhat confused. You said that you ”...have now caught up with the Upton play…” more than 4 1/2 hours after you called the play “magnificent.” How can one grade a play without seeing it? On a scale of 1-10, I would give that play a 7. After seeing the play, what would your rating be? He showed good range and made a good catch but the second out was very routine. I hardly feel that that play made up for the 5 other miscues that were made.

As far as Kapler’s boneheaded baserunning, the only explanation that I have is that he thought that there were already two outs. It just doesn’t make sense for any runner to be rounding 3rd when that ball was caught unless he thought that there were two outs. The runner at 1st was nowhere near 2nd when the throw was made yet Kapler was still past 3rd and never even made an attempt to return to second. The heads up baserunning play there was to go half way to third and wait on the results of the play.

by foulpole on Jun 5, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just to clarify

I wasn’t watching the actual game, but caught up with the “highlights” [quotes used advisedly!] after work, and before my (post-7pm) comment. I’d give the play an eight. It wasn’t a pop fly, more a line-drive, so he had very little time to react or get a line on the ball. and the play, as noted, probably saved two runs.

Even if the play didn’t “make up” for the other mis-cues, it certainly deserved to be included in any objective assessment of Upton’s fielding performance. That you chose to ignore it, says a great deal more about you than it does about Upton.

by Jim McLennan on Jun 5, 2008 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your omission of that simply goes to show how your approach is to ignore all the evidence that doesn’t fit your preconceived ideas. And that’s why many people here treat your views with such disdain.
It simply demonstrates, yet again, how your prejudices blinker you.
That you chose to ignore it, says a great deal more about you than it does about Upton.

Honestly, what value do these comments bring to the discussion? Do you really think that I am going to continue to be enthusiastic about discussing differing opinions with someone that consistently uses this type of language toward me? Have I used those type of attacks on you? Do you feel that it somehow makes your opinion more valid? Should I begin to employ a similar strategy? Seriously, what’s the deal?

If I had seen a “magnificent play” I’m sure that I would have mentioned it. I saw one that was a couple notches above average and you saw a play that was an 8. Does an 8 = “magnificent” in your terminology?

BTW, if Eric Byrnes would have done the exact same things that J-Up did in a game how do you feel the ‘board” would have reacted? I feel that many times any lack of objectivity comes from others.

J-Up looked totally bush taking into account the “7” play that he did make. For anyone else that actually watched the game I have a difficult time understanding how they could conclude otherwise. He was very sloppy out there last night.

by foulpole on Jun 5, 2008 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You have an extremely broad definition

of “personal attack”.

That is all.

by dahlian on Jun 5, 2008 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

::Covers ears::

I’M NOT LISTENING! I’M NOT LISTENING!! LALALALALALALA!!

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 5, 2008 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really

I’ve given up arguing trying to change your mind. It’s apparent that no evidence could ever do that. However, there are about 500 other visitors to the site per day, and it’s important that they get to see your comments in the correct context – someone who hand-picks data and ignores others of equal relevance. No matter how much it’s like banging my head against a brick wall, letting your comments go unanswered would be even worse. You can add me to the ignore list if you want. It’d make my task a great deal easier in refuting the nonsense you sometimes peddle as unbiased criticism.

If I had seen a "magnificent play" I’m sure that I would have mentioned it. I saw one that was a couple notches above average
Simple question: why did you completely ignore and not mention it? Most of the bad plays which you did list were much less memorable.
BTW, if Eric Byrnes would have done the exact same things that J-Up did in a game how do you feel the ‘board" would have reacted?
I can’t speak for “the board”. Byrnes would, however, deserve harsher criticism, since he earns 30 times as much as Upton and also has played the outfield, at least since 1995. Upton was a shortstop until he was drafted, and so has only 300 outfield games – Eric Byrnes probably had more than that before he entered A-ball. Your failure to appreciate the difference between the two is… Well, let’s just say “interesting” and leave it at that!

However, those who exhibit such an extreme bias as you do, pretty much lose all rights to criticize others in this area. I do know you certainly wouldn’t have enumerated Byrnes’ failings, the way you did with Upton.

by Jim McLennan on Jun 5, 2008 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damn!

Beat me to it. That’s what I get for responding before reading the other responses. I didn’t want to beat the salary dead horse, though.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 5, 2008 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Byrnes would, however, deserve harsher criticism, since he earns 30 times as much as Upton

I don’t spend much time worrying about how much the players make. I have no control over that. I’m not going to “blame” the player for what someone else is willing to pay them.

by foulpole on Jun 5, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BTW, if you do care about what someone else is paying these guys, Isn’t J-Up making more than twice as much as CY, Alias, Micah, Reynolds, Sally, CJ, etc. over the last three years or so?

by foulpole on Jun 5, 2008 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You should have quit while you were ahead.

Comparing a $.5M difference to a $9M difference is laughable at best. Also, Upton isn’t replacing the third best hitter in the American League. The Byrnes contract criticism is on the grounds that his contract led to us dumping an MVP contender, his contract means that we likely won’t have the money to resign O-Dog, and his contract is paying him to be the team leader – so he better damn well be one.

I do tend to agree that such criticisms should be directed at ownership, but I know that many times I’ll let that slip in the heat of the moment. So you’re point on that is valid and a worthy reminder.

My main issue is that I tend to applaud players less for doing what’s expected of him. Byrnes is a below-average hitter with great defense. He needs to be a great defender to be a good player, so I consider it more playing up to expectations. Similarly, I wouldn’t be overly profuse in praising a below-average fielding first baseman if he had a 100 OPS+ and just hit a home run – he’s still looking up at average.

by dahlian on Jun 6, 2008 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When you say MVP contender, who are you talking about?

I do what I can, sometimes more, depends on the situation.

by srdmad on Jun 9, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Player.

(Carlos Quentin)

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 9, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BTW, if Eric Byrnes would have done the exact same things that J-Up did in a game how do you feel the ‘board" would have reacted?

Well, since Upton is 20 years old, was drafted out of high school as a shortstop in 2005 before being switched to the OF, and has no great defensive reputation, while Byrnes has been an OF at least as far back as UCLA, is 32 years old, and comes with a pretty good defensive reputation? Yeah, I would say that Byrnes would come under more criticism, and deservedly so.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 5, 2008 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Byrnes also relies

on his defensive contribution for the majority of his positive value.

But when Byrnes makes a great play he gets props. When he hit his grand slam he got props. The main point is that you when you talk about players you should acknowledge the good with the bad.

You can go on and on about how a player looks “bush” out there, but you don’t win games by not looking “bush”. If you can save runs with rangy play, it’ll help the team win more than hitting the cut off man. The little things are little for a reason – Hitting the cut off man is not as valuable as hitting, pitching or catching the ball. You expect a young player like Upton to eventually get those things, but for now the positives still outweigh the negatives. He’s 20 years-old, I’m going to give him another year or two before I declare him the official co-team scapegoat.

by dahlian on Jun 5, 2008 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OT

My Little Pony? Isn’t that a little… err, GLBish?

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 5, 2008 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eff you.

That’s been my Arizona Diamondbacks-related website avatar of choice for almost a year and a half now.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with GLB or unicorns and even if it was related – they stole it from me.

by dahlian on Jun 5, 2008 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay, okay. Calmaté.

I was going to say—I mean, I know we’re hitting like little girls these days, but…

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 5, 2008 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

*Cálmate. D'oh!

Oh…. and in case any fems visit the site, I didn’t mean just regular little girls. I meant blind crippled little girls.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 5, 2008 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Therefore, there are more then a couple of posters that I prefer to ignore and I just skip over their posts.

You mean there’s MORE of us? I thought it was just dahlian and I? Jeez….

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 5, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Definition of Defensive Efficiency comes from here. the actual figures for this year in a ….


(BFP-H-K-BB-HBP-Errors)/(BFP-HR-K-BB-HBP).

So basically this comes down to outs/balls in play.

I looked at the links. It seems to me that this stat could be highly impacted by the pitchers. One example is last night’s game the ratio would be 14/27 or .519. As a defensive stat that pretty much shows that we only converted about 50% of the time. While our D did stink, the way the Brewers were teeing off on both Micah and Ed-Gon I can’t conclude that was all our defense’s fault.

OTOH, Webby’s last start came up with 21/25 or .84.

I think that the quality and type of pitcher could have a large impact on this number.

BTW, any idea why THT doesn’t show this number in their stats section?

by foulpole on Jun 5, 2008 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probably not as much impact as you'd expect

“BABIP [Batting Average on Balls in Play] can be considered to have a direct relationship to Defensive Efficiency Record or DER. DER is the number of outs made by fielders per ball in play (excluding home runs). So, DER plus BABIP could equal 1, depending on the definition being used for BABIP.” [Link[

Basically DefEff is outs/balls in play, and BABIP is hits/balls in play. So you can get a good approximation for Def. Eff for a pitcher by

100 x (1 – Batting Average on Balls in Play)

Using that as a quick and easy figure, here is the Defensive Efficiency for our six main starters this year so far:

Brandon Webb: 73.3%
Dan Haren: 72.5%
Micah Owings: 71.0%
Randy Johnson: 67.1%
Doug Davis: 66.3%
Edgar Gonzales: 65.6% [all appearances]

Not really so much a difference as you might think, only 7.7% between the best and worst. Pitchers are generally thought to have less influence on BABIP [and thus DefEff] than you would expect, but that’s a whole different essay!

by Jim McLennan on Jun 5, 2008 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you have a link that does a quick and dirty DER for the pitchers? Not the extrapolated kinda sorta DER?

by foulpole on Jun 5, 2008 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No. Closest I've got is...

Qualified pitchers, sorted by BABIP. Take the figure shown away from one, and you’ve got DER.

by Jim McLennan on Jun 5, 2008 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The difference in team DER between the best in the NL, so far this season, based on MLB.com’s numbers:

ATL 72.8
PITT 68.4

Or 4.4

by foulpole on Jun 5, 2008 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or, put another way

44 points of batting average on balls in play. Seems a lot more when you look at it that way!

by Jim McLennan on Jun 5, 2008 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not really so much a difference as you might think, only 7.7% between the best and worst. Pitchers are generally thought to have less influence on BABIP

So the extrapolated numbers also equal 77 points of BABIP between Webby and Ed-Gon?

by foulpole on Jun 5, 2008 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes,

In limited sample sizes BABIP numbers are subject to large fluctuations that cause pitchers to have extremely misleading ERAs at the beginning of the season.

If a pitcher in 50 IP has a BABIP around .200 you can expect that he’s due for a fairly large regression ( for an example of this in action, see Elmer Dessens’ 2002 season vs. his 2003 season). If a pitcher has a BABIP in the .400 range they could be going through a string of bad luck.

However, when evaluating pitchers at the high end of BABIP numbers, it’s also instructive to look at their component numbers like ground ball, fly ball and line drive rate. Sometimes a high BABIP can be the result of a large numbers of fly balls and ground balls finding holes. But other times it can be an indicator that a pitcher has simply “lost it”. If the numbers show that they have a high BABIP that’s largely due to an extremely high line-drive rate, it likely means that the pitcher is toast. To be sure, one should also look at strikeout, walk and home run rates.

But when you combine all these small samples into one larger total innings sample (like DER), the random fluctuations tend to even themselves out.

Jim, feel free to copy and repost this so that Foul will read it.

by dahlian on Jun 5, 2008 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

IIRC, I read about this stat two or three years ago (DER). I’m still not a fan of it and do feel that it excludes a lot as a scale for D. How can we be average under this measure yet suck at unearned runs, fielding % and Es? Three other measures that tell a very different story. I also think that it can be very pitching weighted.

I’m not buying it.

by foulpole on Jun 6, 2008 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fielding % and Es are more or less the same stat,

since one is based on the other. Unearned runs are based on errors as well, so you’re basically judging defense entirely on errors. Not the most instructive/objective stat.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 7, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As noted

F% and E are basically the same stat, so if you make a lot of errors, your fielding percentage will be poor. Unearned runs are a bit like the RBI of fielding statistics, because they depend almost entirely on the situation when they happen.

If an outfielder drops a fly-ball with the bases empty and two outs, there’ll be a runner on second with two outs,and that will likely be the end of it. If exactly the same thing happens with the bases loaded and no outs, you’ll see at least three unearned runs. DefEff doesn’t play favorites like that.

As for why we rate okay in DefEff but not in errors, I mentioned it before, but I think we make more difficult plays than other teams, and bungle more easy ones. The former don’t count as errors for the teams that fail to make them, but the latter do go against our record. Overall, these balance out and we make about an average percentage of outs.

by Jim McLennan on Jun 7, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All stats are flawed. Some more so than others.

“DefEff doesn’t play favorites like that.”
A parking ticket and premeditated murder are both a crime but should not be weighted the same. While they all suck, there is a big difference between a defensive miscue that doesn’t cost a hand full of runs and one that does. Any stat that measures all acts as equal has plenty of inherent flaws built right into the system. Some stats neutralize so many acts into the same value that, IMO, it makes it pretty meaningless as a grade when used on it’s own. Not only does that number contain those flaws but it also has a built in problem giving credit to the type and quality of the pitching staff.
“Unearned runs are a bit like the RBI of fielding statistics, because they depend almost entirely on the situation when they happen.”

In order to win games, you have to score more runs then the other team does. While unearned runs also has some flaws as a stat, I would put much more weight on it then I would a stat that totally disregards the impact of the miscues that are being made and also contains the value of the pitching staff.

by foulpole on Jun 7, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Any stat that measures all acts as equal has plenty of inherent flaws built right into the system."

Isn’t this what errors and fielding percentage do?!?

A J-Up bobble that turns a single into a double is counted the same as Reynolds botching a routine ground ball with the bases loaded. You’re right, “some stats neutralize so many acts into the same value that, IMO, it makes it pretty meaningless as a grade when used on it’s own.” Errors is exhibit A in that category.

Also, NO ONE advocates using DER on its own. If I’m not mistaken, the only person here that advocates using only one measure (errors) is you. I’ve posted before what the DER numbers combined with the UER numbers says about our defense, BUT YOU’VE IGNORED IT.

This is the most pointless internet conversation I’ve ever seen.

by dahlian on Jun 7, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you have any cool links to sites that have lists of team stats for unearned runs, fielding %, zone ratings or any other numbers, feel free to list them.

by foulpole on Jun 7, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's a couple

NL by Fielding Percentage – I notice that the leaders are San Diego, Washington and Colorado. They also have the three worst records in the National League so far, and the three division leaders are all in the bottom-half. Seems to suggest that defense – as measured by errors and Fielding Percentage – is not connected to team success.

MLB’s Sortable Team Stats appear to be down at the moment. Hardball Times has a Team Stats Page that includes unearned runs. and also splits up errors into throwing and fielding ones. We definitely skew towards the latter. There are also team Zone Ratings, split into infield and outfield – you may be surprised to learn, our latter is actually third-best in the league.

They also have Plus/Minus ratings, which breaks down DER into components: “that part due to the batted balls allowed by pitchers and that part due to how well the fielders successfully fielded them for outs.” We’re about average in the former, but above league norm (+9 compared to +2) in the latter.

Basically, most of the evidence I can see is that errors and unearned rarely cause losses, and that our defense is not as bad as the number of errors suggests.

by Jim McLennan on Jun 7, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's interesting to note

that our fielding percentage is only two thousandth of a percent worse than last year’s team.

That just shows, the big problem with the errors is when they’ve come. They may continue at the same rate, but I’m not inclined to think that they’ll continue to be as costly.

by dahlian on Jun 7, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that the quality and type of pitcher could have a large impact on this number (DER).

Probably not as much impact as you’d expect

Team DER rank -ERA rank
Braves -1 1
Cubs -2-2
D-backs-3-3
.
.
.
Nats -13-13
Rockies-14-16
Bucs-16-15

It sure looks like a pitching heavy “defensive” stat to me.

by foulpole on Jun 7, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You confuse cause and effect?

If your fielders turn more balls into outs, that will inevitably reduce your ERA? Well, duh. :-)

The evidence tends to suggest that pitchers have little effect on what happens after the ball is put into play. More often, pitchers that have a low BABIP/high DefEff one year, tend to regress the next: it’s like clutch hitting, the proof for it as a meaningful force in baseball is slim at best.

by Jim McLennan on Jun 7, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tell him to look at

the difference in Elmer Dessens from 2002-2003.

2002 – .268 BABIP 3.03 ERA
2003 – .330 BABIP 5.04 ERA

Over his career Dessens had a .309 BABIP.

by dahlian on Jun 7, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The evidence tends to suggest that pitchers have little effect on what happens after the ball is put into play.

Unless the ball is hit back to the pitcher then sure they don’t have much effect on the ball after it’s been put in play. But, it’s the type of ball that is put in play that makes a difference. The gound balls, line drives,fly balls etc. that are put in play off of EdGon are hit much harder then the ones put in play off of Webby.

It’s easier for a defender to field the Webby grounders then it is the EdGon grounders. They are not moving as fast. Same with the liners and the fly balls. It also increases the chances that someone will get to the ball to begin with. I would love to see DERs broken down by pitcher.

by foulpole on Jun 7, 2008 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

DER broken down by pitcher is just BABIP

If you look at just this year’s worth of data, you are going to see a very strong correlation between low BABIP and low ERA. This is part of the random variation we’re talking about. Look at Elmer Dessens -

2002 – .268 BABIP 3.03 ERA
2003 – .330 BABIP 5.04 ERA

his career BABIP was around .309. It’s fairly clear that in 2002, his low ERA was largely due to luck.

If you look at just this seasons worth of BABIP numbers, you’ll see that the ERA leaders all have extremely low BABIP numbers. While some of this is skill, a lot of this is just luck. Yes, there is the ability by some pitchers, like extreme groundballers to have better BABIP than normal, but the true value difference is more a .290 true average compared to a league average of .300. Haren’s BABIP is .271 this season, and Webb’s is .261. This would indicate two things, they’ve been somewhat hit lucky and they’re pitching in front of a good defense.

The trends in BABIP numbers become clearer when you look at a larger sample size. Career BABIP for Arizona pitchers -

Webb – .288
Haren – .291
Owings – .282
RJ – .294
Davis – .310
Ed it’s gone – .323
Med it’s gone – .280
Lyon – .302
Qualls – .292
Pena – .260
Cruz – .298
Slaten – .275

In some ways, Edgar’s BABIP is misleading. In ‘06 and ‘07 he put up BABIP of .290 and .286 respectively. His numbers are brought up by his disastrous ‘03 and ‘04 numbers (.417 and .370). This year he’s also been hit hard, but I’d have to look at the component data to see if he’s just going through bad luck or if he’s no longer fooling anyone.

But going back to the numbers, on average, a pitcher should have a BABIP around .300. As you can see, the most that good pitchers tend to influence the numbers is around 10%. In small samples, they can put up numbers even lower than this, but not for anything longer than a season or so. If one team had a rotation full of Brandon Webbs and another team had five edgar gonzalezes you would likely see large variences in DER, but in the real world I think that these differences prove statistically minor.

Also, to go further in depth on the high BABIP discussion, I repost:

when evaluating pitchers at the high end of BABIP numbers, it’s also instructive to look at their component numbers like ground ball, fly ball and line drive rate. Sometimes a high BABIP can be the result of a large numbers of fly balls and ground balls finding holes. But other times it can be an indicator that a pitcher has simply "lost it". If the numbers show that they have a high BABIP that’s largely due to an extremely high line-drive rate, it likely means that the pitcher is toast. To be sure, one should also look at strikeout, walk and home run rates.

I haven’t yet looked at EdGon’s component statistics, but if he’s showing an extremely high line drive rate, there’s definitely something to be worried about.

by dahlian on Jun 7, 2008 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can see what you mean

And, as dahlian has pointed out, Webb does have a better career BABIP than most. However, he is an outlier for obvious reasons related to his sinker [there are other, rare pitchers who can affect BABIP – such as knuckleballers like Wakefield] . Most pitchers simply do not have the ability to conjure up weak groundballs like Webb. Indeed, because of that, good infield defense behind him is probably less important, since the balls are easier to field. They’re busy, but not on particularly difficult plays,

by Jim McLennan on Jun 7, 2008 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except

that ERA is heavily dependent on defense. You’ve got it reversed. FIP is much more indicative of pitching ability than ERA.

It’s not that DER is a pitching heavy “defensive” stat so much that a good ERA requires a good DER.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 7, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was flawed because of the word IF

IF my aunt had balls she would be my Uncle.
IF I would have only 3 different numbers on my PowerBall ticket I’d own the D-Backs.

We could if ourselves all night long, what’s the point? Things happen or they don’t.

Hard to make any valid point with the words if and could have being the basis of your argument.

by Augie's Army on Jun 5, 2008 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's Baseball 101

You’re never charged an error on a ball that you don’t reach. Fielding percentage tells you absolutely nothing about a defender’s range.

Carlos Lee has one error in 57 games. Let me repeat that, Carlos Lee has one error in 57 games. What do you think is more telling about his defense, the .989 fielding percentage or the fact that he has the second worst RZR among all qualified MLB outfielders?

by dahlian on Jun 4, 2008 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thoughts on Upton

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, because I’m going off vague memories and an incomplete view of the season, but it seems to me that a lot of Upton’s mistakes on defense come when there’s a play in front of him. Today’s play was not the first time I’ve seen him try to hurry up to catch a sinking liner, slide for it and miss so that the batter gets extra bases. If he can learn to judge which balls he can catch and which he needs to give up as a hit and play on the hop, he’s going to avoid a lot of his errors. Then, with that arm, he’ll start nailing runners who hesitate to see if he’ll catch it.

I love watching him in the field. In my opinion, when he’s on his game, he’s the most exciting fielder we’ve got.

Currently blaming the D-backs struggles on: this pain in all the diodes down my left side.

by kishi on Jun 5, 2008 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's still learning to play the OF,

it’s still a new position for him. I think you’re probably right in that with experience, he has nowhere to go but up.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 5, 2008 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Terrific observation

Upton’s problems seem almost exclusively in front (and I would add, behind) him, as you say, judging liners hit in his plane, flubbing routine grounders. Side to side, he’s pretty amazing. Why is that, and how does one attack the problem?

Maybe he should stand sideways, facing the foul pole, a la Greg Luzinski?

[kidding]

by Diamondhacks on Jun 9, 2008 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All of the unearned runs comes out to about .8 runs per game. That sure puts a lot of extra pressure on not only the pitching staff but the offense as well.

by foulpole on Jun 9, 2008 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately,

this is much like the way Clint Hurdle keeps “expecting” the Rox’s hitting and pitching to improve.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 4, 2008 5:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hitting and pitching require talent

error-prone defense is more a matter of mental mistakes. The talent is there, but the team just looks lost out there.

If the team hits the no one (other than foulpole) cares about a missed cut off throw. Things like a bobbled ball in the outfield may be frustrating to watch, but they’re not going to kill the team. One of the biggest weakness of errors is that they treat a bobbled ball turning single into a double the same as Mark Reynolds turning a double play into two runs.

The team just needs to hit. That’s all. Fans may hate watching a team make so many mistakes on the field, but even with those mistakes this is an above-average fielding unit.

by dahlian on Jun 4, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 4, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was really only the statement "I expect them to get better"

that reminded me of Hurdle.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 4, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why don't I see Reynolds defense being talked about?

How about that throw to home in the first game of this series?

I do what I can, sometimes more, depends on the situation.

by srdmad on Jun 4, 2008 7:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That was a very poor play and cost us two runs.

by foulpole on Jun 4, 2008 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More like E-backs, amitrite?

"D'backs" means seatbelts! "D'backs" means crash positions!

by soco on Jun 5, 2008 2:12 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Well put.

Currently blaming the D-backs struggles on: this pain in all the diodes down my left side.

by kishi on Jun 5, 2008 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You've now used this joke.... 3x?

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 5, 2008 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This version has added content for extra truth.

Currently blaming the D-backs struggles on: this pain in all the diodes down my left side.

by kishi on Jun 5, 2008 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well,

he IS trite, to answer his question. I’ll give him that.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 5, 2008 3:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can someone please

ask Foulpole to read my latest response to him the Defense thread. I’m being serious here, t’s an entirely serious rebuttal to his position and I think that the site would be best served if he read it, responded to it and continued the discussion. There’s no snark, no jokes, just pure baseball discussion.

by dahlian on Jun 7, 2008 8:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

err...

wrong thread.

It’s sad, but there are probably dozens of posts on here that I’ve lost and rewritten because my laptop has a “back” right underneath the right shift key. I’ll be typing and then all of sudden I see the page starts loading and I get that ache in the pit of my stomach knowing that I just wasted however many minutes.

by dahlian on Jun 7, 2008 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know the feeling.

I hate when I accidentally press “Backspace” twice and it goes to “back”.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 7, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a bad idea

To bring things down to the bottom here for legibility, Otherwise, this is in danger of vanishing up its own reply. Maybe it’ll become the first Fanpost to get its own overflow thread… :-)

by Jim McLennan on Jun 7, 2008 9:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It wouldn't be quite so long

if everything dahlian wrote didn’t have to be repeated by somebody else.

Just sayin’.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 7, 2008 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most pitchers simply do not have the ability to conjure up weak groundballs like Webb. Indeed, because of that, good infield defense behind him is probably less important, since the balls are easier to field. They’re busy, but not on particularly difficult plays,

And we do have Haren who also seems to have the ability (until his last couple starts) to not get sqared up very often. That’s a lot of innings from two guys that seem able to keep a lower DER on a regular basis. Those two guys alone could have a pretty significant impact on the team DER YTD.

by foulpole on Jun 8, 2008 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the broadcast team has oversold

Haren’s ability to induce ground ball.

Only 44.4% of his BIP this season have been ground balls and he’s giving up line drives at a 20.2% rate.

By comparison, Webby gives up 65.1% GB and 17.2% LD.

Haren has succeeded by taking advantage of the outfield defense to the tune of a .275 BABIP and walking next to no one. As noted before, Haren has .291 career BABIP so he doesn’t have appear to have any abnormal great ability to limit the number of hits on BIP.

by dahlian on Jun 8, 2008 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Webb does have a better career BABIP than most.

Even those Rockies LHBs that seem to own Webby seem to lay back on his sinker and hit soft little liners out to lf. It’s not like thay are always squaring him up.

by foulpole on Jun 8, 2008 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Todays 4-3 win against the Bucs was a close one. The only defensive miscue that I recall was J-Up’s poor throw on the Mientkiewicz ( i think?) “double.” It was nice to see some solid D. If we had made a couple of other miscues, this game could have turned out much differently.

by foulpole on Jun 8, 2008 12:13 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't consider Upton's throw a "miscue",

simply because most RFs probably don’t make that play.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 8, 2008 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another game without a plethora of defensive miscues. O-Dawg had a Web Gem on the ground ball through the box and the behind the back throw for the force at 2nd. Romero also made a dandy throw right on the money to 2nd that nearly got the batter trying to stretch the double.

The only miscue that I recall was a throw by Burke to home when he clearly should have gone to the cutoff man/2nd and held the batter at 1st.

by foulpole on Jun 8, 2008 7:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

More news on our defense from Nick.

“I think defense is an important part of our team and our identity,” General Manager Josh Byrnes said. “It was last year, and it was in April.

“Obviously, for whatever reason, the last month or so, it has cost us games. It’s something that’s usually been quite the opposite. It’s helped us win games. We’re better than that. I wish I had an explanation for why it’s been this way.”

And again on Nick’s blog.

Defense

This has been an egregious area the last month. Here’s a quick rundown of key defensive miscues that have cost the Diamondbacks games this season. (Note that although he has been much, much better defensively through two months this season, all three of Conor Jackson’s errors at first base have led to runs in games they lost.)

April 14 vs. Giants. Multiple errors/mistakes cost Randy Johnson a win in his debut in a 5-4 loss.

May 4 vs. Mets. Jackson’s error opens the door for three Mets runs in the ninth of a 5-2 loss.

May 7 vs. Phillies. A passed ball by Chris Snyder leads to a concussion for Jackson and two, eighth-inning runs for Philadelphia in a 5-4 loss.

May 17 vs. Tigers. Another Jackson error helps the Tigers score twice in the fifth inning, leading to a 3-2 loss.

May 26 vs. Atlanta. Mark Reynolds’ wild throw to third base on a bunt play helps the Braves score three times in the second inning as Arizona loses 7-3.

May 29 vs. San Francisco. And another Jackson error helps the Giants tie the game in the eighth before winning it in the ninth. Final: 4-3.

*June 2 vs. Milwaukee. Last night, Chad Qualls and Reynolds each make errors and the Brewers come from behind as Arizona loses 4-3.

by foulpole on Jun 9, 2008 8:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea why some of the above quote is bold. I did not do it and don’t feel that those parts are any more or less important.

by foulpole on Jun 9, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The bullet-point uses asterisks

SBN turns anything surrounded by asterisks and turns it into bold.

Currently blaming the D-backs struggles on: this pain in all the diodes down my left side.

by kishi on Jun 9, 2008 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would explain it. Thanks.

by foulpole on Jun 9, 2008 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Points to ponder

Should mention that in the May 4 game, Chad Qualls allowed three singles and a walk while retiring one batter. Even if we’d paid error-free baseball, the Mets would still have taken the lead and, in all likelihood, won the game. Blame Qualls as much as Jackson for that one. Also, in the seven games mentioned, the Diamondbacks were charged with nine errors – however, our opponents, in the same games, were charged with seven of their own. As noted elsewhere, our errors seem to have come at worse times – is there such a thing as clutch fielding?

I’m also still keen to hear why the teams with the best fielding percentage – San Diego, Washington and Colorado – have the very worst records in the National League.

by Jim McLennan on Jun 10, 2008 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hehe.

So much for the Rockies bragging last year about having the highest fielding % in history…

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 10, 2008 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More miscues by our D today against the Bucs. RJ was guilty of a couple when he had a tailor made double play ball hit back to him and he booted the catch. Once he did get a hold of the ball he made a bad throw to first that resulted in two on an no outs instead of two outs and nobody on. Miggy blew an easy play on the bunt that should have got the lead runner at third. Reynolds made a bad throw to first that resulted in the runner going to second. That was a questionable scoring call that gave Rivas a single and and 2nd base on an error. I feel that we gave up three unearned runs today.

by foulpole on Jun 9, 2008 10:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I said the same thing

during the GDT. There’s NO WAY that ball to Mark should have been scored a single.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 9, 2008 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We still have seen some sloppy D the last few games but at least we had two Web Gems in the 9th today. Augie and Wolf kept saved the game with two great diving catches and good throws vs. the Mets today.

Let’s hope that this signals a turning point for our D.

by foulpole on Jun 12, 2008 10:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Another solid game by our team defense last night vs. KC. Tracy started our second double play of the season from 1b. It was a solid fundamental play.

Below is a YTD list of NL 1bs and their total for double plays started.

1) Helton Todd COL 10
2) Berkman Lance HOU 9
3) Lee Derrek CHN 8
3) Aurilia Rich SF 8
3) Gonzalez Adrian SD 8
3)Fielder Prince MIL 8
7) Boone Aaron WAS 7
7) LaRoche Adam PIT 7
8) Howard Ryan J PHI 5
8) Votto Joey D CIN 5
10) Loney James A LAN 4
11) Teixeira Mark ATL 3
11) Delgado Carlos NYN 3
13) Jacobs Mike FLA 2
14) Tracy Chad A ARI 1
14) Jackson Conor S ARI 1

The median 1b has 5 so far this year.

by foulpole on Jun 14, 2008 12:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The median 1b has 5 so far this year.

oops, I screwed up the rankings starting at 8. That should have been a 9. So the median would range from 7 to 5.

by foulpole on Jun 14, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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