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Around SBN: Transfer Rumor: Bolton On Verge of First Signings

Eric Byrnes' extension

OK gang, Bam Bam gets a lot of flack on this board so I thought that it would be appropriate to start a Bam Bam fanpost and possibly reduce some of the Byrnes controversy.

Here's my take...When we signed him, when you combine D, base running and hitting, he  was arguably one of the best LFs in the NL. Q's shoulder was cooked and he didn't even have the surgery yet. Who knows if Q is even going to be able to play, not only at all but at a ML level, at that point.  We had Scooter hanging around as a guy that hasn't proved jack as a major leaguer and is , what? about 28 years old? So, it was pretty much looking like either Bam Bam or Scooter at that point.

We had a good shot at being a competitive team but also had very young and, up to that point, unproven players at 1b, 3b, ss,CF and RF. Bam Bam got a three year deal at  10 per which was more favorable to the org then the Gary Mathews deal at 5/50.

This is far from an Ortiz type deal. IMO, if you pay quality players big money then that's OK but if you pay sucky players (Ortiz) big money then that sucks.

Bam Bam is a very solid LF.

Fire away.

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I thought this was

hashed out already.

I was dead set against it back then and i still am. What can I do though? He plays for the team I support, so…...

by unnamedDBacksfan on May 2, 2008 8:48 PM EDT reply actions  

If this topic has been totally washed out on this site, then I apologize. But, it sure seems that there are more than a few critics of Bam Bam and his extention.

by foulpole on May 3, 2008 4:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

ay yay yay….

No one says that Byrnes is a terrible player… he’s just a bad value considering we had Q in the wings:
Quentin: 7 HR 21 RBI 2 SB .287 AVG 1.024 OPS Salary $400K
Byrnes: 3 HR 15 RBI 3 SB .267 AVG .814 OPS Salary $10M

"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck

by njjohn on May 2, 2008 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, it’s still early and Qs shoulder was toast when Bam Bam was signed.

Were you Q’s doctor when the Byrnes extension was signed? If so, what was you prognosis on his recovery at that time??

by foulpole on May 3, 2008 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

The fact that they let him play through it

at the beginning and middle of the season, leads me to believe it wasn’t the most serious injury in the history of ever.

Like Byrnes’ hammies – nothing serious, but an injury that will keep nagging at you so long as you keep playing at it.

Also, if the team doctor’s prognosis was that Q would never be able to play at 100% again, he should be fired.

by dahlian on May 3, 2008 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Then, is it fair to say that you feel that Josh Byrnes is a douche because they traded Q for a bag of beans?

by foulpole on May 3, 2008 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

What other choice did he have

when after a hot streak Moorad personally called Byrnes into his office and worked out a three year $30 million deal?

Once that was finalized there was no longer any place for him in our organization. He had a down year so teams would be wary. Everyone in the world knew that he had to be dealt so J.B. had no leverage whatsoever. And because he was right-handed, he wouldn’t even be a good fourth outfielder to keep on the roster to try and rehab some of his trade value.

by dahlian on May 3, 2008 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

We could have

tried trading Byrnes to Houston? Ed Wade seems to think they’re contenders.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on May 3, 2008 6:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ed Wade has to think they're contenders...

because the guy signing his checks constantly reminds him of that fact.

by TexSkins on May 5, 2008 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Might I interest you

in Eric Byrnes?

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on May 5, 2008 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

...I can’t really place any of that at JB’s feet.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on May 3, 2008 6:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

On top of that,

at the time, we still had Carlos Gonzalez waiting in the wings as well. There was no reason to overpay for a middle aged OF who had probably just had the best two years of his career, and wasn’t likely to repeat.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on May 3, 2008 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Carlos Gonzalez?

Explain how we get Dan Haren, Gonzalez was the highest rated guy we gave to Oakland.

Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?

by srdmad on May 3, 2008 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, and he was the centerpiece of the trade.

But we resigned Eric Byrnes months before we made the Haren trade. When we signed Byrnes, we still had Quentin AND CarGo.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on May 3, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you are responding to…

Then, is it fair to say that you feel that Josh Byrnes is a douche because they traded Q for a bag of beans?

...then I am asking if you feel that JB “wasted” Q in a trade. If Q was that highly regarded in MLB circles then why did we not get Pujols for him?

by foulpole on May 3, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not you foulpole

I was wondering if the poster who said this:

“His value to the team is very high. Forget about stats, this guy is important to the team that goes beyond the boxscore.”

I was just wondering if the poster was serious or being sarcastic. It is hard to tell on a message board.

by unnamedDBacksfan on May 3, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Since it was

srdmad, I’m guessing he was serious. That would follow his personality, I think.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on May 4, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I was serious.

Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?

by srdmad on May 4, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

And it's a fair comment

I just found a fan survey [more on which to follow on a separate post] which found that 31.4% of D-backs fans said Byrnes is the player on the team most worth paying to watch. That was more than anyone else, including Brandon Webb. Now, obviously, we each have our own opinion on this, but I think there’s little denying that Byrnes is, particularly for casual fans, the face of the franchise.

He and O-Dawg are “personalities” in a way the younger kids only get to show occasionally. I mean, does Stephen Drew have a personality? I want to stress, rhat’s not picking on him, I simply have no idea. I’d love to get to know our players better, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen an interview with him longer than a couple of paragraphs. i think the organization needs to do a better job of promoting Drew, Young, Jackson, etc. as players wuth whom we can connect.

by Jim McLennan on May 4, 2008 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah. He's like David Eckstein.

You can’t use stats when you talk about him because his value goes above and beyond stats. It doesn’t matter that he sucks.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on May 3, 2008 6:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Objections to the contract:

1 – They signed him in the middle of the season when he was putting up all star numbers. They should have at least waited to see if he was able to put together a strong first half and a strong second for the first time ever in his career.

2 – The NTC.

3 – Middle to small market teams don’t need to spend top dollar on players to the left of the defensive spectrum. Left field is the second easiest position on the diamond to find productive scraps that can fill it. That money should be given to players on the far right of the spectrum, like Orlando Hudson.

4 – In 2007, the average OPS+ of a left fielder was 107. Last year, Byrnes OPS+ was 104. In 2006 it was 96. While his defense was great, even in a career year for him he was still a below average offensive left fielder.

5 – He’s a mediocre outfielder in his 30’s. It only takes a small decline in his performance before he goes from being “good enough” to a millstone. I would say that what we are looking at right now, a minor nagging injury, is enough to push him over that precipice. Unfortunately, at this point in his career he’s not likely to become a bastion of health and consistency.

by dahlian on May 3, 2008 1:39 AM EDT reply actions  

To quote the great baseball analyst, William Shakespeare, “What’s done is done and cannot be undone.” Byrnes is on the team through 2010, good or bad. I wasn’t that impressed with the contract at the time, for most of the reasons brought up by others: I was also disturbed that the extension was apparently given over the head of Josh Byrnes by Jeff Moorad. I’d have though that after the Ortiz fiasco, he’d have learned to leave decisions on baseball staff to those with better knowledge.

That said, we now should put it all behind us, and root for Byrnes to do well during his time with us. My feelings towards him are like those I felt for my bigger sibling growing up: half the time, I wanted to strangle the hell out of them, but the other half, you’re willing to go through fire and ice for them, because you know they’d do the same for you. The flips and the exaggerate strikeouts have me wanting to throw things through my TV, but then he’ll do something that is just frickin’ awesome. I can’t imagine the D-backs without him now though.

by Jim McLennan on May 3, 2008 2:40 PM EDT reply actions  

To sign or not to sign. That is the question. Whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of young blown out shoulders, or to take Byrnes against a sea of troubles,

;-)

by foulpole on May 3, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eric Byrnes Sucks.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on May 3, 2008 2:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Did you watch the game last night?

They mentioned that CoJack has a 38 game errorless streak. I figured you’d be proud.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on May 3, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

After today's game

I am rapidly heading into agreement with Ben on this one: those were some hellacious at-bats this afternoon. This season, his line is now .242/.316/.417 – an OPS of just .733. He has only 3 SB – and 2 CS – this year, and his defense has been unremarkable.

I really, really hope he is hurt and that he can come back after some time on the DL. Because the alternative right now is pretty disheartening.

by Jim McLennan on May 4, 2008 10:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Missing the point....as usual

What the starter of this thread misses, and it’s really quite simple is this:

It was never about what Byrnes WAS during the first half of last year, it should always have been about what he was likely to become over the course of a 3 year contract.

I sat not 10 feet from Josh Byrnes in early June of 2007 and listened to him explain why he wasn’t going to extend Byrnes.

6 weeks later his boss overrode him and gave Byrnes the extension, which then set in motion the obvious after effects.

There’s no defending it. It was a stupid move then, and it was explained at length why. And it’s a stupid move now.

But it can’t be undone. We, as fans, just have to live with it.

by shoewizard on May 4, 2008 10:51 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Bad Deal

Everyone knew that in 2009+2010, the Snakes would be better of with Q or Nuevo Gonzo in LF.

It was more debatable who would be better in 2008. I was a Q guy from the get go so it killed me to see him moved. Q is a better ballplayer now, tomorrow and in three years at a much cheaper rate.

Byrnes was a guy whose value was built around speed, the first tool to go with age.

by Augie's Army on May 5, 2008 1:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Where is all the snarkyness for CY? While I feel that he has brought his D (and base running) to the park on a regular basis and feel that he is a solid player for our squad (as has Bam Bam), where are all the critics regarding his OPS/OPS+ or whatever, since his extension?

And BTW, while were are throwing stones, what has Reynolds provided on O lately (I still feel that he is a keeper as well)?

by foulpole on May 5, 2008 8:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Do you not get it?

There has plenty gnashing of teeth over CY and Reynolds offense recently – especially the strikeouts. No one’s made any threads about it, but then again, you were the one that made this thread. CY is 24 years old and in his second full season. There’s still an adjustment period for him and especially for Reynolds who is in his first full season.

Byrnes on the other hand, is supposed to be the steadying veteran presence in the middle of this line up. He was signed by Moorad to be the face of the franchise. He’s making more money than Drew, Qualls, Upton, Scherzer, Ojeda, Jackson, CY, Pena, Owings, Montero, Slaten, Reynolds, Petit, Augie and Salazar combined. He was signed after JB had already told many fans that it wouldn’t make any sense for us to resign him. He was signed when the three best non-established players in our system were outfielders (Upton, Q and Gonzalez). He’s now playing through an injury that is clearly sapping whatever positive value he has a ballplayer. He’s showing us how incredibly fragile corner outfielders that rely mainly on speed are – especially past their 30’s. He’s showing us why most sane teams don’t give that sort of money to a glorified role player. While he continues to flail around at the plate, we’re left to sigh and wonder “what if” as Q hits 283/.421/609 this season.
Since signing his contract he’s hit 242/.317/.397 in 335 at bats. Are you really trying to compare Byrnes’ recent and not so recent poor play with CY’s bad 2-3 weeks? Do you actually think that Byrnes has “brought his D (and base running)” this season, because I sure haven’t seen it. It’s obvious to me and just about everyone else but you that he needs to be rested for a week or two to get at least somewhat healthy so he’s no longer a plague in the middle of this lineup

I understand we’re stuck with Byrnes and I hope to god that he can at least be an average to above-average left fielder, but right now he’s nowhere within sniffing distance of it. He’s trying to play through an injury and hurting the team for it. There’s an element of selfishness. Until he can just suck it up and realize that he’s not a good enough player to well while being hurt, he should expect to be pilloried by people here. The team needs to be put first.

by dahlian on May 5, 2008 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

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