Rate our defense

by foulpole on May 12, 2008 1:51 AM EDT

We have given up a lot of unearned runs and not all miscues show up that way. So, let's take a look at our D. I'm going to list our starters based upon a scale from 1-10 according to what I feel is expected from a NL starter at their position. I'm going to use things such as: range, glove work, footwork, arm strength, arm accuracy (are they throwing to the most beneficial spot on the field), how many hits, extra bases, runs do they save/cost us. I'm going to use starters for now but feel free to use bench guys as well. My scale is based upon what I see them do on the field.

C Snydes 8.5

1b CJ 2.5

2b O-Dawg 9.5

3b Reynolds 4.5

ss Wolf 4.5

LF Bam Bam 9.0

CF CY 8.0

RF J-Up 3.5

I'm interested in everyone's opinion so please chime in. Again, I'm using what I see to determine my ratings. Let's try to use visuals as best we can.

Thanks

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Least surprising post in the history of ever.

As much as you may want to believe it, Jackson is not a 2.5 at first base. Slightly below average – yes, but not a 2.5.

And even with the miscues, Upton is an above-average right fielder. His mistakes are frustrating, but he makes so many plays that most other outfielders wouldn’t even get to that “don’t show up in the box score”. Also, I suppose that Byrnes might get a 9.0 rating against left fielders, but that’s a joke. As an outfielder he’s a worse defender than Young and only a notch or two above Upton.

I want to believe that Snyder is that good, but so far this year he hasn’t shown it. He’s not throwing out baserunners and of late the basepaths have been a carousel with all the passed balls he’s allowed.

by dahlian on May 12, 2008 2:19 AM EDT 0 recs

Frankly. laughable

Sorry, but this reflects your personal prejudice much more than it says anything objective about our defense. As soon as I saw the subject and the author, I knew that a) Jackson would be bottom, b) Upton harshly criticized, c) Byrnes and Hudson would be put on a pedestal and polished. It’s not even worth discussing this with you.

by Jim McLennan on May 12, 2008 11:49 AM EDT 0 recs

It’s not even worth discussing this with you.

Wow. I wasn’t really expecting that type of response from you. Monday is an off day so I figured that this would give everyone something to talk about. Take a few minutes and make your list with your ratings.

by foulpole on May 12, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up 0 recs

If I thought

You were genuinely interested in even a subjective assessment of our fielding skills, I’d be happy to take part. But your list makes it clear that it’s intended more as another round of Whack the CoJack Piñata. However, since it’s an off-day, here’s the results of Tangotiger’s 2007 fielding survey, which asked fans to rate fielding based on what they saw. I’ve moved the decimal point over to put it on the 1-10 scale used, and included only the results for our eight starters this year. Number of ballots is 20-30 in most cases:

Hudson: 7.9
Young: 7.1
Drew: 6.9
Snyder: 6.4
Upton: 5.8
Reynolds: 5.6
Byrnes: 5.3
Jackson: 2.3

by Jim McLennan on May 12, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

If I thought you were genuinely interested in even a subjective assessment of our fielding skills, I’d be happy to take part.

I am. I was thinking along the lines of that poll that you posted and wanted to get everyone’s opition.

by foulpole on May 12, 2008 8:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

Frankly, I think we are all a little grump (I know I am) after the play of the D-Backs the past week and a half or so. At the moment, I think they all stink! Well, except for the starting pitchers and maybe Brandon Lyon.

by TwinnerA on May 12, 2008 2:05 PM EDT 0 recs

after the play of the D-Backs the past week and a half or so

Use the last few weeks of this season and last year if you want to.

by foulpole on May 12, 2008 8:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

damn

I meant grumpy!

by TwinnerA on May 12, 2008 2:05 PM EDT 0 recs

Ok, I'll play along

Snyder – 6
CJ – 5
O Dawg – 8
Drew – 5
Reynolds – 4
Byrnes – 7
Young – 7
JUp – 5

How’s that for scientific analysis?

by AZSEAfan on May 12, 2008 3:20 PM EDT 0 recs

Reynolds is the guy that can't play defense.

I will let Upton slide by, because he is only 20. I have much more faith in Jackson this year than last year and it will probably continue to raise. Drew scared me a little bit, because he is the SS and they are not supposed to make any mistakes.

Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?

by srdmad on May 12, 2008 6:42 PM EDT 0 recs

I will let Upton slide…

No sliding allowed, by young guys or old guys. ;-)

Please post your rankings based upon what you see now or over the last year or so and don’t consider the future.

by foulpole on May 12, 2008 8:11 PM EDT up 0 recs

Fine

I will give him a 5 for his defense, but you can’t exactly complain about his D, since he is 20.

Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?

by srdmad on May 13, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

In fairness to foulpole,

not complaining about Upton’s defense because he’s young is kind of like not complaining about Eric Byrnes’ hitting because he’s old and mediocre.

Sure, you can abstain, but sometimes frustrations need be voiced. The important thing is not to get so caught up in the bad that you refuse to the acknowledge the good.

by dahlian on May 13, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

Complaining about Brynes' hitting is not the same as complaining about Upton's D.

Upton can’t drink and you expect him to make no errors at all. Sounds like you’re considering the future, because you think he is so great. Byrnes is old and mediocre. If that’s your reason for his bad hitting, then you can’t expect him to hit, because that is who he is from your perspective.

I do what I can, sometimes more, depends on the situation.

by srdmad on Jun 4, 2008 7:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

I didn't consider the future, I just said that it would probably raise and that I have more faith in him.

I do what I can, sometimes more, depends on the situation.

by srdmad on Jun 4, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

Well, that went over like a lead ballon. Thanks for your list, AZ.

For those of you that are into zone ratings, below are the THT ‘08 grades (FWIW) for the NL.

C N/A
1b CJ 14/15
2b O-Dawg 3/11
3b Reynolds 6/15
ss Wolf 8/15
LF Bam Bam 1/10
CF CY 3/13
RF J-Up 13/15

Link

Go to POS above the header to sort by position and click submit.

by foulpole on May 13, 2008 2:11 AM EDT 0 recs

real numbers! Wow… you really ruined the subjectivity here, foulpole.

"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck

by njjohn on May 13, 2008 7:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

I have no idea what you post is supposed to mean?

by foulpole on May 13, 2008 8:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

I mean that you asked initially for was only subjective opinions:

I’m using what I see to determine my ratings. Let’s try to use visuals as best we can.

You have a disdain for the various defensive metrics and so I thought it humorous that you pulled out ZR here and went all objective on us.

"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck

by njjohn on May 14, 2008 6:44 AM EDT up 0 recs

That's actually very interesting

I know that most defensive systems are to be taken with a grain of salt but it’s a bit surprising to me to see that ODawg only has 5 out of zone plays. Has he lost a step in the quickness department?

by AZSEAfan on May 15, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

In a word,

yes?

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on May 15, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

Remember

that small sample size caveats apply to fielding numbers as much if not more so than hitting numbers.

While I think that Hudson has lost a step compared to the 2004 model, I’m not willing to go so far as to say that this is a single year drop off.

by dahlian on May 15, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up 0 recs

He's been dropping off every year we've had him, though.

The numbers may not be definitive for this season, especially when comparing # of OOZ plays, since he spent some time injured, but he has lost a step.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on May 15, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up 0 recs